Iowa Class Battleship Crushes Soviet Task Force
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Inspired by the 1988 classic “Red Storm Rising”, command a nuclear submarine in a desperate attempt to prevent “mutually assured destruction” when the Cold War gets hot and WWIII begins.
You will be tasked with intercepting convoys, amphibious landings, insertion missions and battling it out with enemy warships, submarines and aircraft. Thankfully, an arsenal of wire-guided torpedoes, anti-ship and cruise missiles and the occasional SEAL team are on board to keep the Iron Curtain at bay.
Imagine being the radar operator on that soviet formation and realizing you've sailed into the path of something that displaces almost as much as _your entire task force combined._
(Quick-and-dirty math gives me 62k tons for the soviets against 60k for the Iowa.)
Not to mention that your "big gun" boat (Sverdlov) would only be considered a light cruiser by comparison.
@@warmstrong5612 *by definition
Lol imagine
“Yes! We hit him!
… what do you mean it bounced off?”
Radio operator:
....
Blyat.
Iowa-46k displacement.
I don't think I'll ever get used to the famed WW2 battleship Iowa firing Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles and having 4 CIWS turrets
God bless Navy modernization programs
Can you imagine if the Iowa pulled up at leyte sending a hail of missiles and plowing out the kamikaze with cwis lol. One ship just sinking an entire fleet
That just made an already bad-ass ship even more nasty!
I would think the five-inchers would still be useful in an anti-air role, especially against that Bear at the beginning.
Should have given it 4 more
Russian cruiser "Moskva" certainly couldn't "get used to" missiles. 😛
How does it feel to be one of the only people that makes (good) sub /ship game videos
Well I really appreciate the compliment! There are other folks that make great videos too though :)
You are
if you are a big fan of Wolfpack, check out MagzTV's subsim content too!
the both are awesome
It's a dry genre, but I've found myself watching it for hours before.
Wolfpack is the gateway drug and deserves all these accolades and more. In fact he is the only youtuber I patronize but, Litely_salted, sorcererdave, and definitely Devin Horner for his excellent silent hunter 4 series deserve views.
The Iowa is such a monster of a vessel. I'm shocked that your anti-missile systems were able to fend off the barrage, but it made for some amazing visuals.
Yeah I was suprised I was not hit at all either.
Cold Waters cheats rather blatantly in the player's favor. If that'd been an AI-run Iowa, she'd most likely have been toast :P.
@@GaldirEonai That and IRL, there would have been her escorts adding their own CWIS to the defence.
@@trekaddict CIWS would (or should) not be providing the majority of the air defense by the escorts. The Standard missiles would be doing most of that work.
@@yournamehere9928 True, but wouldn't that be farther out as well? Some of those missiles got pretty close.
Fun fact, but going too slow in a big gun warship (like 15 knots) would actually increase the pitch that the ship experiences while sailing, thus reducing gun accuracy. You wouldn't want to plow on at full speed, but slowing down doesn't exactly equate to better accuracy.
Actually no it would not. The MK-8 Rangekeeper analog fire control computer accounts for pitch and roll of the ship.
And even Soni don't think missiles care about pitch or sea conditions
The same system design used for stabilizing the landing Glide Path lights for Aircraft Carriers, is also near the same design as the gun stabilization systems for the BB.
Hello fellow priest of mars! :D
@@techypriest7523 theres a few of us here today.
"Despite her continued engagement, the all-gun light cruiser Sverdlov eventually met her inevitable end in her battle against the battleship Iowa. One of the 16-inch shells dealt the fatal blow, tearing into the bow deck and setting off the ammunition for turrets 1 and 2, leading to a jack-in-the-box effect that violently launched the turrets into the air, the additional shrapnel tearing into the bridge and other vital installations of the citadel. Another trio of 16-inch shells soon arrived, two of which hit the stern and dealt catastrophic damage to the engines and propeller shafts, the rapid flooding on both ends ensuring her demise."
~Excerpt from disclosed report on the Loss of Sverdlov Task Force against Iowa
Well nobody would expect a light cruiser defeating a BB
"Of all the things that they could encounter!" - Glavkom VMF
So basically Sverdlov got Hooded
@@noturbusiness1278 Not... quite.
Hood is kind of an odd one out, really. Her destruction came down more to a confluence of fate, luck, timing, hydrodynamic realities, physics, as well as the fact that diving shells (which weren't known about at the time of her design/construction) exist. In other words, a literal 1-in-a-million Golden Bullet (or Shell, in this case), and Bismarck got extremely lucky to hit a fatal window that only existed for a few seconds, as opposed to just outright defeating Hood's armor like in this case.
Remember, Hood was a Battlecruiser, not a Light Cruiser like the Sverdlov is, and one that was massively upgraded after Jutland in 1916. Her armor was actually capable of standing up to Bismarck's guns that day (in fact, Hood was known for being a "wet" ship (water regularly swept over her lowered Quarterdeck (rear deck where her rear turrets were)), and all the extra armor they bolted to her was probably the reason why).
(If you want more information about this subject, Drachinifel made a video about Hood's destruction that goes over it all, and he expands his theory on it in the Armchair Admirals stream on Battlecruisers (around the 1/2-2/3rd's mark in that video, I cant remember the exact timestamp)).
But, all that aside, yeah, against a Battleship, that sort of thing is what you would expect to happen to a Light Cruiser. They simply weren't designed to go up against Battleships. The armor on a CL would only serve to arm the fuse rather than offer any meaningful resistance to a 16-inch 2700 lb. AP shell.
@@b-17gflyingfortress6 Yeah, sending a light cruiser against a battleship is a _really_ bad idea. Best thing for the cruiser to do in a situation like that is _run!!!_
Pro tip: press shift+space to ready the weapon in your anti-air missile slot (in the Iowa's case, her Harpoons). Much faster than manually clicking the button every time.
Thanks! That is a great tip
You actually can change the button needed in setting, like me changing v for chaff and b for anti air missile
Surprised you didn’t use the 5 inch at all, especially against the Bear. Also, the 16 inch seemed massively underpowered. HE shells should’ve annihilated most if not all of the ships when they hit
They can only really mod what's in the base game, and I doubt there was ever an option for secondary gun use on a ship, or more than one shell type per gun. I'm guessing they modeled AP instead of HE, even though HE would be more effective against modern ships - AP would likely overpen against just about any modern ship, except maybe the Kirovs and Sverdlovs.
@@drtidrow They really should just use the HE ("HC") mark 13. According to NavWeaps, the HE is not a lot worse at cracking concrete than the APC, and for hitting ships the nose fuse would be great. NavWeaps also mentions some very fun fuse modifications that would've been available in the 80s.
The surface ship content of this mod is such a blast to watch!
Is it feasible to do a campaign from a surface ship, and if not, do you know if that is in the plan for the mods future?
On a more reasonable note, would you consider doing a campaing in a SSGN or SSBN? Seeing one of the earlier diesal boats could be cool and present a unique challenge.
Glad you like it! It is indeed possible to do a career as a surface ship! I am not sure an actual career appeals all that much due to the limitations of surface ships in CW. A SSGN playthrough could be interesting. I really love the 1968 campaign. I may do another series in that time frame.
Surface campaigns are totally feasible, but anti-missile defences are so strong that it only really works with vessels that have a shitton of weapons to deploy (Kirov, Ticonderoga, Arleigh Burke, etc). You'll struggle to make the older Soviet ships like the Kara, Sovremenny, etc work, their poor sonar suites and limited arsenal really get in the way. However, their RBU mortars are incredibly effective, should you survive the closing run, and have no practical counters. The newer ships like the Udaloy and Krivak fare better, but lack anti-surface hitting power. Kirov is in a class of her own and can basically sink anything, but takes multiple days to fully resupply and causes you to miss missions while waiting in port.
The NATO ships have decent sonar and so many SAMs that you're effectively immune from enemy missile attacks, but lack hitting power across the board. You generally only get ≤8 Harpoons for anti-surface work, which are dogshit and intercepted so easily that they're barely even worth firing. They also lack RBUs for close-in ASW work and most Soviet subs can out-dive your Mk46s, leaving you extremely vulnerable at close range. Spamming stand-off is your friend.
Anything without stand-off ASW like ASROC/VLA or Silex/Starfish/Stallion to break enemy wires is dead on arrival. Torpedo evasion with surface ships is incredibly difficult against unwired torpedoes, let alone if the wire is intact, and you're all but guaranteed to take a hit if you get locked. Most ships can only take a single torpedo, and the ones that can take two will be crippled by the first - avoid getting locked at all costs, even if it means disengaging.
For Soviet one where you have to work your way up through subs there's just really no reason to get to a Kirov. For the NATO North Atlantic where you can start in something like a Ticonderoga it works decently well but gets very repetitive. The enemy AI will still go active when you do which is just kinda silly for enemy subs so it mostly comes down to just running around flank speed trying to dodge or outrun wake-homers while dropping ASROCs. The only time the game completely breaks is if you try fighting too far North since there's a chance the game will try spawning your ship on ice so it helps having a few saves to go back to if that happens.
If someone could mod in allied ships (maybe spawn in a small preset task group for every battle? It'd be better than nothing) then a surface campaign would start to sound truly feasible. Imagine heading a full carrier strike group, or something like that.
@@Wolfpack345 I did a campaign as the iowa, only good thing about The campaign is the surface contact fights. You’re screwed against subs unless you spam torpedos from your chopper, or mod the Iowa to carry torpedos. Not reccommended
Your usage of chaff and cwis and your primary missile defence was very stressful. Though understandably surface ships aren't really meant to operate by themselves like this, so your not in a great situation. That's my main issue with cold waters, you're always a lone ship/ sub going against big task groups and wolfpacks.
Yeah, in reality, Iowa's BBBG would have an Aegis cruiser and a group of destroyers or frigates. (Probably more than that in a war situation.)
@@tyranusfan id imagine the Iowa would be a part of one of the carrier task forces in the Atlantic or Pacific. Rather then the flagship of a fleet.
@@astartesfanboy5294 IIRC, back in the '80s they were often operated as the flagship in a surface battle group independent of the carriers. Definitely not by themselves, they'd have at least one cruiser and several destroyers/frigates as escorts.
WTB "Cold Waters 2"
- dot mod makers become part of the team and dot mod being main game,
- coop with up to a party of 6 (for the surface fleet fun, and even 5 surface 1 sub, maybe a stipulation per side - i.e. us=1 sub...maybe 2, russia=go ahead, wolf pack of 6 subs, etc etc),
- ships can enter and exit the "battle map" from the world map (not sure how well it'd work, and its a gripe of mine with cold waters that they don't - several times russian sub groups one right after another and I just wanted to stay on the map itself without heading back to "world map") maybe allowing for (if world map time was not as fast..idno what time compression to use for it) players to be split up and pop into an ongoing battle
- playable merchants? lolololol jk...but hey, if there would be party, why not. Protect the convoy!
Just would love coop, even if its only 2player max.
The allies prevailed , are you stupid . Germany was underwater prevelant anot above war much like Russia! Stupid in the fact!
That missile barrage was intense, what a great battle!
It sure was!
I would love to see the USS California in a battle. My Grandfather was on her when she was sunk at Pearl and after she was repaired he stayed with her through the entire war, notably at Surigao Strait.
Effect for those 16 inch guns is quite underwhelming. But mod looks awesome! Incredible to see how much ass a WW2 battleship (although modernized) could have kicked
They do u realize they did semi modernize the battleships though they are obsolete in a real modern war but they used them for desert storm and the Iraq war
@@Utubesuperstar I would say being hit with multiple 16 inch salvos in your un-armoured "modern" coffin would serverely f-up your day indeed. Haha "obsolete" yeah right, while you are being sent right to the bottom lol
@@Utubesuperstar It was not obsolete, only obsolescent and hugely expensive. It is the most advanced super dreadnought on the planet, which meant its armoured belt was completely immune to any Exocet, and its armoured deck protected it against even a wave of Granit, it was only just a flying 15" shell, so its impact was still equal to a shell from an enemy such as Haruna or Fuso. There was enough displacement to replace its secondary armament for many Phalanx or Otomatic mounts, and the turbines provided enough power to upgrade the electronics.
The only problem was that navies were mathematical, and the Iowas did not bring enough control over the seven seas for their cost and the huge crews needed to operate them. In practice, it was better to use the crew on a carrier fleet instead
@@charlesc.9012 A battleship is not going to shrug off an antiship missile idk what you are smoking but let me have some. Missiles are the future, battleships are obsolete. Good for shore bombardment? Yeah but naval combat? Absolutely not.
@@Utubesuperstar A missile is a flying artillery shell, that is it. That is why all the affordable bunker busters are still dropped by aircraft. their armour-piercing capabilities are limited, and a battleship has many armoured bulkheads
A battleship will shrug off an exocet without blinking an eye. Look up the datasheet yourself, and then check the armoured deck and citadel thickness of the Iowa-class.
There is a reason navies still equip oto-melara cannon of all calibres
Request/suggestion, when firing off the different missiles, maybe explain a little about their differences? I've failed to notice a difference in any of the missiles while watching your videos.
Good idea! Thanks for the suggestion!
The Tomahawk Anti Ship variant is a long range weapon with a range up to 1,000 miles and it packs a huge 2,000 pound warhead. The Harpoon is a shorter range weapon about 60 to 80 miles with around a 500 pound warhead. Both are sea skimming meaning they fly really low to the water to minimize detection range. The Harpoon has something called a pop up maneuver where the missile rapidly climbs and dips over and plunges down on the target in an attempt to confuse the enemies defenses.
@@CRAZYHORSE19682003 harpoon can go much further than you are saying but otherwise you’re correct
So harpoons are the standard us anti ship missile they’re subsonic cruise missiles and can be fired from ground, ships and via air. They do sea skim and can be programmed to pop up or hit low. In the other ones he uses sm2s a lot which are a surface to air missile that can be secondarily used for anti ship. The tomahawk is a long range land attack missile and they have created a new anti ship variant but it was not around when the Iowa was refit or in service it just got deployed
@@UtubesuperstarThe Ship launched Harpoon is limited to between 67 and 74 nautical miles depending on which block. The air launched variant has a range of 120 miles.
Wolf you should do another war on the sea play through with the Tokyo express mod as the Japanese and another only using standard type battleships you can have destroyers of course but no cv’s it would be an interesting play through
Edit:or you could do just a any battleship play through
Ya, I want to see another Japanese play threw as well
I do want to do another TTE playthrough as Japan. There will be lots of house rules in place if I do it to make it interesting. I was hoping there would be more updates to Wots.
@@Wolfpack345 there is an update brewing on WoTS but it's pretty slow paced (it's available on the beta tho, the guy is making stuff like kamikaze )
@@Wolfpack345 well this ought to be interesting
Love seeing the big US battleships of legends in action! Please keep em coming!
Will do!
Not sure what the strategic bomber was doing a couple of meters meters over the water, but this looks fun. :)
I believe it was suppose to be the Tu-142 which in a maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare version of the Tu-95 instead just a standard tu-95 so it could’ve have short range tarps on board
In the radio log it was recorded that the pilot shouted "LEEROOOOOOYYYYY JANKINOV" before committing to that attack run.
This somehow reminds me of "deadliest warrior". Epic duels without pesky escort ships or witty tactics.
Wolfpack, are you thinking about doing a P-47 Thunderbolt campaign when you finish Yuri's Stalingrad campaign?
I'd enjoy a P 47 campaign.
We need more axis campaigns
@@generalpanzerfaust2387 True, although he just finished a 109 scripted campaign a few months back
@@jonqueller4444 I watched it and the only axis campaigns he made were PZ 4, ME 262 and 109 or am I mistaken?
@@generalpanzerfaust2387 Panzer IV? U mean tiger, yes? Well, he died in the me 262 campaign because the engine literally detonated. RIP. He has done the Moscow campaign, p51 and is now doing stalingrad
I kinda feel like the 16-inch shells should be a bit more devastating than that
Well, modern ship have very little armor, and if the Iowa is using AP they will likely just punch a 16" hole in the ship all the way through. I don't know if this mod allows you to switch between AP and HE, but HE is the way to go in this case.
Goes to show. Missiles are fancy, but a 16 inch shell is classy. 😎
Also reminds me of what Arnold as terminator said "old, but not obsolete"
Considering a CIWS system only has 20 seconds of firing time I think most of the ships would have died including the Iowa in the second barrage if the CIWS systems had realistic ammo loads.
Could the anti-ship missiles penetrate 16 inches of belt armor? I think the damage they cause would be mostly superficial if modeled correctly.
@@sharkymitten The issue there is the armor belt does not cover the first few feet of the side and missiles would cause mass fires if they went en masse to the sides but realistically they are going to be hitting all over the superstructure causing fires and disabling the ship instead of flooding and sinking it. The only really armored part up top is the bridge and conning tower but c&c is placed everywhere.
@@sharkymitten 12.1 inches of belt and 6 inches of deck, but the answer is still "No". The Iowa class had armored citadels, designed to shrug off the impact of enemy 14" and 15" AP shells, impacting at Mach 1.6 and weighing up to 1000kg. By comparison, the anti-ship missiles had warheads of ~250kg with similar impact velocities and while designed to pierce armor, they couldn't pierce armor *that* thick.
As for the risk of fires, that battleship wouldn't sink or suffer catastrophic damage as long as her citadel remained intact.
The thing with the Iowa class is it's all or nothing the area's around the citadel is heavily armoured the rest not so much, all it would take is a hit or two from some of the bigger missles like the kh series which have warheads of several thousand pounds to knock out alot of the superstucture and mission kill the BB.
@@AaronCMounts That is pretty untrue on the catastrophic damage part. Every single space on a ship is useful and most of it is not dedicated to crew space. A fire or several will easily cripple a ship if not dealt with. There are many instances of this in history and even in the modern day. Anyway, as soon as the radar goes you lose a crap ton of fire control and everything goes to rangefinders. CIWS has its own radar integrated but again the actual useful firing time would mean all ammo would be expended pretty quick here and missiles would be hitting the ship constantly.
What song is playing from about 4:30 - 6:00?
Seems like hitting the Sverdlov earlier would have been a good move, everything else seemed to be out of offensive options after the opening salvo
Just a note here, but that Tupolev should have been engaged with the 5" guns at much greater range. They are dual-propose, and retained that role throughout the Iowa's career. Also, something as big and slow as a Tupolev would be easy prey for the 5", saving some ammo in the CIWS.
Big question is, were they supplied with anti-aircraft shells in the '80s? I imagine that they mostly depended on their escorting ships for anti-air/anti-missile defense, with the CIWS as a last resort. I rather doubt that any leftover VT fuzes from WW2 would still work, and suspect that heavy AAA got neglected once radar-guided missiles were a thing.
@@drtidrow That is an interesting question, one that I suspect is worth pestering Ryan Szimanski about. :)
I suspect the answer is 'yes', since they retained and maintained the AA directors for the 5" guns.
@@drtidrow I messaged him, and turns out, those same fuses and shells were also used for airburst shore bombardment, and so they were used throughout the ship's career.
@@c.a.mcdivitt9722 Right, forgot about that use of the VT fuze. I remember reading about the security types only wanting the VT fuzes to be used over water, so that the Axis forces couldn't get their hands on one. Eventually the Army convinced them to allow VT fuzes to be used in Europe against infantry and unarmored vehicles, where the airburst ability was a very useful feature. 🙂
By the way, did you see that _Texas_ is currently being moved to a nearby drydock, so that her badly corroded hull can finally get addressed?
@@drtidrow I had forgotten as well :) And yes, I was watching the Texas move too!
The last of the all-gun light cruisers vs the last of the all-gun *battleships?* Surprised she lasted that long
One of the coolest facts about the Iowa's. Through each of their modernization refits the analog main gun targeting system was kept as the primary for the 16 inch guns. The analog targeting system was so accurate and precise that they kept them all the way to the decommishoning of the New Jersey back in 91'. Toured the USS Ohio in Norfolk while stationed there. Saw a 16 inch round in person there and understood why old retired sailors and marines said the big naval shells sounded like a train flying through the air and you could watch them as they fell to their targets. The HE shell weighed just under a ton and the super heavy AP weighed 2700 pounds.
you mean USS Wisconsin? the Ohio is a nuclear submarine
@@8vantor8 Your probably right. Severe strokes really mess with ones memory. Not joking spent 2 months in hospital and was placed permanent 100% SSDI. Treatments didn't start showing positive results until 3.5 years following the strokes. That was just 6 months ago.
@@jasonswearingin1009 I hope you don't have any more strokes and everything goes well and a long lasting fullfilled life for you. Strokes, an having to be ssdi, not fun at All. I hope you get to see more of the ships and memorials. The subs are cool too to tour. Friend of mine happens to have a 8inch non-live ap shell from 1958 - it was last on a ship 1958, and we have no clue as to why it was removed from the stores...just no clue at all, but hey, its cool. Has it just sitting next to fireplace.
Much appreciated. Still kicking. Grandma always told me the good die young. So I've always enjoyed being an ornery turd. Truthfully, I think my real name is "Jason you little sh**". Heard that more than my birth name. If I made a video detailing some of my life shenanigans TH-cam would have a severe meltdown. My content would be family friendly but the events and actions would be taken seriously out of context. None of my "adventures" were violent or led to the harm of any person or animal. It's just the times we grew up in were so much different. Born in 80'' so I grew up doing a lot of the same things' kids from the 40's and up to the mid 90's did. We didn't get high speed internet where I live until 02. Cable TV didn't happen until 94 95. Only the wealthy had central air units. Almost all of us used big noisy swamp coolers. Heh it was one of my chores to keep the coolers filled with water. We got our first central air unit in 96 still keep some rechargeable (coolant) 110 and 220 window units around just in case the main unit breaks down. TX summer is HOT!
Would love to see the whole a 16" shell explosion makes in a modern warship, like certain ships getting broke in two with a well placed shot right? Lol. Realistically though, the soviets fire a concentrated missile barrage instead of a few here or there and overwhelms CIWS.
If you developed a proper 16" shell with a *light* armor piercing capability and a proper delayed-impact fuze, making the shell penetrate the enemy ship's hull and detonate specifically after it had penetrated 4-8m into the hull, then a single impact would break a modern frigate or destroyer in half.
However, the USN's 16" Mk 7 AP shell (the bad-ass 2700lb super-heavy AP shell) was designed to punch through *thick* armor before detonating, and thus would likely just bore a long, 16" dia hole, clean through just about any modern warship. Such holes would do very little degrade an enemy ship's combat effectiveness, much less her survivability.
@@AaronCMounts not if it hit water line though, but yes that's most likely the case.
The Iowa was probably one of the BBs that received an extra layer of armor plate on the sides, to help protect her from broadside attacks. But I think that came after Pearl Harbor.
So shells and torpedos, at least in WWII would have done less damage than they would do, if the extra armor plate hadn't been added.
BTW, I have cold waters on Steam... Can you get the "Dot Mod," there?
USS Iowa finished construction after pearl harbor in August of 1942, and its main torpedo protection was its High Speed of 33 knots and its maneuverability, but it could take a few hits
The Battleship New Jersey curator has a video where he crawls into the armor belt spaces. Kudo's to the Dot Mod team but I think the accuracy and damage needs to be tweaked a bit on both sides. Radar guided guns were a thing, even if radar guided ammunition wasn't back in the 80's.
Yeah Wolfpack have you tryed ultimate admiral dreadnoughts? You can build your own battleships and it’s really in-depth.
Meh it needs a lot more work, unless you're building meme ships it gets pretty boring especially if you are using pre-WW2 tech. The AI is also something else, it seriously can't handle more than a half dozen ships.
Chaff is too effective. Kh-51 could extrapolate speed of target and compare pervious measure to new and abrupt change of speed might not confuse it. Real navy would not act like artificial idiot and walk into Iova's gun range unless necessary. Will pound it from range or ask for support.
I wonder why the United States stopped using (and building new) such powerful ships that alone can cope with an entire squadron? (sarcasm)
The CIWS systems only carry around 1500 rounds, there is no way they would have any ammo left after like 7 or 8 missiles
This channel is extremely underrated just found it a few days ago and ngl I’m addicted keep up the good work!
Love to see more submarine carreers, with missions that take a bit longer than 15 mins.
I'd love to see you run a Soviet campaign with surface ships. I just completed one myself and managed to get all the way to the Kirov. Being a surface ship and fighting multiple NATO subs or a surface combat fleet is much more difficult than the sub campaign. Favorite ship was 100% the Sovremenny. The early game is rough with the first two ships.
Don't worry folks, Wargaming is hard at work on a balance patch to fix the obvious glitch of Russian ships losing a battle!
I think what ultimately disappoints me with this game is that it spends so much effort to be realistic, but you can do stuff like destroy entire Soviet task forces with one lone Iowa class BB. It makes me laugh just to type that out.
This is a mod for the game. Otherwise he'd be in a submarine.
This tells me guns should return. Same thing as some of the talk in the tank doctrine, it is REALLY hard to counteract shells, as they have almost immediate setup and reach. Self-guided missiles are good, but naval guns and battleships never should have been made obsolete.
They were made obsolete because of missiles, even if you put 20 cwis missiles will get though and they are an extremely expensive ship that is a massive target that we no longer have the ability to produce quickly. It is better to field many more missile ships, one if you fire enough missiles they will get through and smaller ships can be more easily replaced, and smaller crew losses can be trained faster. Loosing 1k or more on a capital ship is harder to replace that 200 on a cruiser
Something tells me it's easier to intercept a shell travelling at mach 2 on a purely ballistic trajectory than it is to shoot down a sea skimming and maneuvering mach 3 anti ship missile.
@@brandondirocco9816
My issue is that missiles didn't make tanks obsolete, and tankers still agree that the tank doctrine still has use.
Maybe shells have its negatives, but abandoning them maybe wasn't as wise either.
CIWS is already capable of engaging incoming artillery shells. Missiles have the advantage of OTH engagement which shells will never have (until railguns become usable).
@@jaffacalling53 ah yes, intercept the one ton chunk of solid metal, im sure it will care about Cwis fire
and btw there 9 of them
oh what realistic bs. realy a tu 95 attacks like a ww2 torpedobomber?
As much as I agree with much of this, CIWS has a VERY short firing life. and a VERY long reload time, with MANY personal attending this, in the open. It will work, only until it runs out..
from wiki...
The Block 1A and newer (pneumatic driven) CIWS mounts fire at a rate of 4,500 rounds per minute with a 1,550-round magazine.
The 20-mm APDS rounds consist of a 15 mm (0.59 in) penetrator encased in a plastic sabot and a lightweight metal pusher.[16] Shells fired by the Phalanx cost around $30 each and the gun typically fires 100 or more when engaging a target.
So.. about 15 missiles per Phalanx... then a 15-20 min lunch break while reloading...
I think it is criminal to not make a bigger capacity, and/or faster reloads...
The recommended action, is to "leave the engagement area to reload..."
also the RAM system, after its empty, very long reload process...
Until they run out, none better... after that... good luck.
15 knots?! Seriously that was beautiful. You should send to Ryan at Battleship New Jersey’s YT channel, he would love it. (Can you imagine being the guys trying to reload CWIS?)
Scrambling to reload the r2d2 with a hard on while guns that are firing basically vw beetles are going off right by you
The Iowa can do around 33 knots
It makes no sense why the Bear would come that close, and the task force should have launched a saturation strike on you, with no AA missiles your CWIS would be overwhelmed, the AI needs a lot of work.
Love that feisty Udaloy though!
Nous autres francais avons toujours regreter que le jean bart et le richelieu n'est pas ete moderniser comme votre classe iowa .des navires comme on n'en fait plus .
Unrealistic. We all know that Russian ships can’t deal with missiles.
Just going through them and this is quite ridiculous. Total failure of the game, the AI seems to never use their own troops effectively, essentially throwing a lot of assets away. The CIWS also looks like too accurate - with CIWS like that, noone would bother using missiles at all. OTOH (here and in other scenarios mostly) counterfire runs into "head on, their CIWS can not even fire" situations. Someone really needs to do some serious reprogramming of the AI.
The iowa class battleships just make amazing platforms to battle with. More modernized and they would be unbeatable with armor and offensive weapons.
This has two major flaws. A battleship would not travel alone, she would be part of a task force. Also some of the missiles would undoubtedly get through.
I'm just gonna say, if you haven't seen the video of the "Mighty Mo" from 1990, you should watch it. It shows the USS Missouri, being recorded from another ship, as they test-fired her guns. It is an awesome video, and a testament to how beloved these old ships really are.
A couple of interesting facts:
1) On the Missouri's final trip back to port for decommissioning and mothballing, the producers of the movie _Battleship_ filmed the scenes they needed while the ship was underway.
2) When an Iowa-class battleship fires her guns full broadside, the ship moves laterally 10 feet.
3) While other nations like Germany and Japan could make their ships as wide as they wanted, the Iowa-class battleships were limited at 108' across midships. The reason? Because of the Panama Canal, which has a width restriction of 110' wide.
4) In the 1980s, the USS Missouri and USS Wisconsin were the only vehicles outside of bombers to carry nuclear, non-missile weapons. Both battleships, at one time, carried the 20-kiloton "Kate" nuclear main gun shell, which could be launched from over 20 miles out to bombard, with nuclear shells, coastal defenses and cities.
The only thing I would say about this video is that once you fire your first salvo, you would need to increase your speed to flank. The reason is, if you have to manuver, an increased speed allows a faster velocity of water over your rudder plates, thus allowing you to change direction and become harder to predict, in terms of location.
A ship at GQ and in battle conditions would not stay at 15 knots once they engage with an enemy group of ships.
Question, can you not fire off all 16 Harpoons and 32 Tomahawks in a single mission? The entire point to a saturation missile attack is to put as many missiles on target as possible. Firing a few here and there just makes it easier for the Russian ships to defend against the missile attack.
You can only guide a certain number of missiles at a time and the vls and launchers can only fire so fast but yes you would want to saturate
I'm loving these surface ship engagements, would it be possible to do it the other way around now?
That is to say, a Kirov versus a USN task force?
Could also maybe due it against different types of task forces, like one built around an Iowa and another built around a carrier, since a Kirov battle is certain to be shorter than an Iowa battle.
Suggestion for dotmod; can you simulate a convoy escourt going after a Soviet sub pack? It probably would have been the most numerous engagement in this type of conflict. Very good Vid as always. Love the video tape editing; almost makes me feel young again!
False advertising. "1914 Shells of Fury" is a simulator/game of German Imperial submarines.
I have a hard, hard hard time buying into the lone Battleship being able to defeat THAT MANY incoming vampires.
Me, too. :)
I have to agree. Unlikely the Iowa would be almost untouched.
I was wondering about a different tactic:
Hold off firing your own missile barrage until the 16s do some work...?
Used initially, the Iowa's missiles did not get thru, so this 'suppress and the barrage' might be more effective.
Would the damage from the main guns take out enough of their defenses to justify waiting?
Would love for Dot Mod to add controllable Helicopters for ships who have them. It would add another layer of options to really take the fight to the Submarines as an ASW vessel.
Nice video but there are a few problems with it. The ship is not Iowa. The Wisconsin and Iowa's bow has full size gun tubs from Oerlikon days so that eliminates those two from this simulation. New Jersey and Missouri had their bows fared as in the pictured ship. New Jersey has a Vietnam era squared top for it's electronic warfare suite. The other three have rounded ones. Thus, this ship is Missouri. Missouri and Wisconsin both have beefed up inner structure over the first two so more able to take damage. Chaff creates a real problem too. If fired into the wind, the stuff blows back onto the ship which creates a much stronger radar image. Chaff a pain to get rid of too as it tends to be very flimsy and sticks to the nonskid on the decks. The teak is a bit easier to clean. Swerdlov had six inch guns which could do damage to the superstructure but not anything behind the armored belt. The same with the pop guns on the other Soviet ships. It was nice to see a sim of my fav ship kick ass and hurt things. (I'm a Plank owner USS Missouri BB63 serving from 1985 thru 1989.)
I'd love for u to do a 1v 2 situation
Wisconsin vs the Russian light cruiser sverdtol and the kirov guided missile destroyer
Stupid question. Wouldn't antimissile defenses try to engage the old school incoming shells?
Another great video!
Thanks!
Why are the five inch with proximity fuses not firing. Ever been to sea on a real ship???????
👍
Thanks!
Could you imagine a simulation of this ship the way the old Silent hunter games were set up. Where you can man the important stations. I used to love dystoyer command back in the day. And of corse Dangerous Waters. How cool would it be with moder VR to be on the bridge watching those massive guns fire. I've always thought the late cold War upgraded Iowa's were possibly the coolest ships ever put to sea.
So unrealistic.
Early on the narrator says the Soviet task force is coming at Iowa bows on, but then Iowa's starts firing 16" salvos off the starboard side.
Also, I seriously doubt that chaff and CIWS is going to take out every anti-ship missile.
Why did it take Iowa so long to come up to speed; 20 knots is the fastest I remember the video saying she worked up to.
Did you manage to score any hits with the main guns? If yes at which minute:second in the video it is, it seems I've missed it.
After those last missiles, the guns did all the work sinking the last two ships. They also did some damage to the all-gun light cruiser earlier on.
I've always wondered why the navy didn't develop a canister type round for the 16in and 5in guns. Imagine it would have been a great close in weapon against a missile attack.
Because such a weapon would be less than useless. The slow reload time would make it almost impossible to get a hit.
I mean, these are the battles the Iowa class was designed for. The Iowa class was designed around hit and run tactics, so they had more speed but armor that would only defend against a Heavy Cruiser with 8in (205mm) main guns. I mean, even the armor plates were designed to be better against cruisers and weaker against battleships. To be fair, we did somewhat do spaced armor with our oil.
The main belt armor on Iowa was designed to handle 16" 45 caliber guns found on Colorado class. The internal armor was for shaped charges. Torpedo protection was built to reduce damage to the side hull and keel.
Deck Armor was designed to handle air dropped munitions. Its not a battle cruiser but a fast battle ship.
That little warship put up such a fight against Iowa with it's 2 guns, sadly it's 2 guns are punny compared to the Iowa
.
Note: Missouri has chain guns, it was even shown being used in the movie battleship, at least 2 were on the bow
.
Also, the model of the Iowa class shown in the video is missing something, the radar tech that's on the mast, check images of the 4 Iowa class, maybe one of them doesn't have the radar, but who knows
If they're shooting at you with the guns they have I would assume your secondaries were in range. Did you forget? Do the 5" not work?
Most underwhelming gun sounds ever
Somebody should create a submersible battle cruiser!
A mild mannered, yet deadly battle cruiser by day, then at the flick of a switch and the captain "DIVE! DIVE! DIVE"! and VIOLA! You have yourself the most interesting, confusing and deadly wicked cool submarine.
The big guns would be retractable, and convertible to fire huge shells and torpedoes!!
You design a huge, extremely strong outer shell, and a solid inner body which is the battle cruiser!!
Between outer and inner shell is your ballast! So, there's a tremendous volume of air/water which would be powerful enough to dive quickly and to surface quickly!!
Think of the huge volume of delicious breathable fresh air you could create simply by flooding and unflooding the compartment between shells! You could remain submerged for weeks without using a nuclear power system!!
I give this proposals 4 and a half Popped Boners out of five!!
So - BOING! BOING! BOING! BOING! SHWING! "))
OK FELLAS WHAT SAY YE?
Jack ~'()'~
For sake of reality, where are her destroyer escorts???? SMC, USN, Ret.
The game modification that he's using doesn't work with large fleets controlled by the player.
Question, and if this sounds sarcastic its not, but is it at all realistic for one ship to take on 8 like that and win? I mean I feel like it would be ridiculous that their missiles couldn't hit you but yours hit them but I don't have a lot of knowledge in this area so I am curious. Thanks!
Arguably, the smaller ships lasted too long. Not many of them would be combat effective after getting slammed with 16" HE from radar assisted tracking.
I really hope they include Iowa in There new game
How are you playing the USN surface fleet in Cold Waters?
Dot Mod
Try firing the harpoons in pairs, 1 popup and one not. That seems very effective.
Seeing the scan lines in the video, like its a VHS tape is pretty cool. This is a fun video to watch.
Thank you!
Yes more BB content! Love it
Thanks!
@@Wolfpack345 I also love your IL2 series. Since we now have GPHC at a relatively complete state, could we also have a campaign series on GHPC?
Well done, sir! Those Soviet vessels were fish in a barrel. Am I sensing the OHP frigate being featured in the near future?
I love the OHP. I will certainly have a video with it.
Shame the 5 Inch guns never fired. That would have been a wall of Anti-Air/ Anti-Missile defenses combined with the CIWS.
I always wanted to play a Naval game with modern warships similar to this. all the games are ither WW2, age of sail, or submarine, can we get some modern day surface naval combat games
This looks like a viable battle platform, it’s sad they retired the Battleships! Either that of you’re an amazing Admiral!
@N Fels You would be incorrect on a couple of points. First modern ASM's would not be effective in penetrating the Iowa's main armor belt because they are not designed to pierce armor. A modern ASM will penetrate the 1/5 inches of STS hull plating and explode before hitting the internal armor belt. The explosive force would be dissipated causing some damage but not a lot. The Iowa class was designed with radar directed guns and an analog fire control computer. You could expect hit rates between 5% to 10% with her guns.
You have managed to underscore once again why I will forever have a soft spot for Battleships of all types.
Why didn't the Iowa use her FIM-92 Stingers to shoot down the "Bear-F"? In wikipedia says the 1980s refitted Iowa class has Stinger missiles.
(Note: Bear-F: NATO Reporting name for the Tu-142M aircraft, a variant of the Tu-95 "Bear"; and "Bear-F" means "Bear-Foxtrot").
The post World War 2 paranoia against battleships may have been a wee little bit....UNWARRANTED. Of course, should that paranoia ever have materialized, it would have meant that 30 000 tons or more was lost in one fell swoop.... I mean in case even ONE battleship was lost to enemy fire. On the other hand, the last thing you would have wanted to see as a sailor of Soviet/Communist navy was a NATO battleship getting close and training their 15-inch or 16-inch guns at you. Almost equally unpleasant sight to a Warsaw Pact seaman, though would have been a NATO missile cruiser (such as Ticonderoga) or a missile destroyer (such as Arleigh Burke) launching a gazillion Tomawaks or Harpoons at you...
Where are the Iowa's escorts? There should be 1 or 2 Ticonderoga CGs, 4 - 6 Arliegh Burkes DDGs, maybe even a few FFGs & a fast attack sub or 2. How did a Bear get within CIWS range? Why was there only 1 Bear? Perhaps the sole survivor, that had expended all of its standoff weapons, and was gonna drop a bomb? Firing missiles, with multi-hundred mile ranges, while you're engaged in a gun fight? Was Iowa firing some 'imaginary super long range ammunition? REAL believable!
The Iowa would never be sent out alone.
Not realistic. Why on Earth should the Bear get so close? Tu-16s approached American carriers routinely during the Cold war, just to take pictures and to measure how much time it takes to intercept them. But Tu-95, especially during combat simply has no reason to take such a risk. It would rather follow the target keeping a safe distance, just like it happened with the Moskva cruiser which was allegedly tracked by an American plane, so Ukrainians made a perfect ambush
Real question. The TASM and other missiles are supposed to be launched on multi-leg trajectories, rather than direct. That way, the enemy has no idea where they'll be coming from, and can't fire directly back. Can you not program a multi-leg route in Cold Waters?
WOW - a Sverdlov class cruiser - I think there were only 2 or 3 left when I was flying in 1987. Udaloh was a treat. Curious to have an Iowa with ZERO support, but it was amusing.
Watching this gets me so dammed hyped for sea power!
Looking forward to it!
Ai enemy forces... uy scary!
I am sure the Iowa could deal with Vader and Luke and Rebels and Empire too this way 🤣
Anti ship weapons have a much larger reach than 30 miles... in real life, and nobody has to risk close combat... but alas, keep playing boy
Although the modern navy is technologically superior to their WWII counterparts, it honestly feels as though the rule of "cool" aspect of the "big gun" navy will never be challenged. Yes, yes, missiles and that crap, but sending a car's weight of solid shells over hundreds/thousands of yards to slam into your enemy is just so much more visceral...and terrifying in certain ways.
Now imagine thouse Mk 7s within optimum range with a more accurately modeld radar fire direction suite...
i think im about to hang up World of Warships for this......Thanks WolfPack! i found you by trolling YT....more i see of this game the more i want it ....been telling my game clan about it too.....alot of us are former Military i myself am former Navy HOORA
it be cool if the 5 inch guns were firing flak rounds with the cwis, maybe the 5in can fire further and the cwis is for close in range? where are your escorts? an iowa class battleship would have at least a cruiser and 2 destroyers for escort?
Russians: "Look, kamrats, they're using an old battleboat from the 1940s! We're gonna win for the Soviet Union!"
USS Iowa: "So I started blasting..."
It seems rather unlikely that the Soviets would be stupid enough to allow the Iowa that close without bringing a Kuznetsov, Kirov, and/or a Kiev class cruiser along. Fun engagement nonetheless.
Funny how the SAG built around the Iowa in HARPOON! turns out much differently against a Soviet TF. The again Harpoon! is a simulation and not a game.