Red Storm Rising if it Happened Today - US vs Russia Scenario
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Cool
indeed
Regarding on tank battles RedEffect is the best out there IMO.✨ and matsimus known him too. he has great sources.
COVERT CABAL please make a video on what if Ukraine and sweden and finland. joined nato.
AND what if turkey left or was kicked out of nato.
This channel is always on point can’t be bothered listening to the rest anymore there full of shit or have boring voice’s
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
"This brings up an issue I have with the book... there wasn't much strategy in their plan"
From what we know now of Russian military strategy, I'd say that was a pretty accurate prediction from Clancy
I'm reading it right now and it's eerie how similar it is to Ukraine right now.
I watched the video, stumbled over the exact same sentence and I wanted to write the same comment. 😅
I disagree that it lacked strategy. You have to keep in mind the very limited objective of the invasion -- knocking out West Germany and destabilizing NATO so they could safely invade Iran, something they end up being unable to do because the war grinds on too long. They didn't want to attack the US mainland because of the nuclear implications of that, which they mention after the US strike on the Russian mainland. They wanted to fight a fast war based on the overwhelming superior numbers of their tank corps in Europe. Having Iceland under control would also buy time to prevent NATO reinforcement. So the whole thing hinged on speed--could they clear a path for the Iran invasion before the US got fully engaged? Turned out to be no, but it took a lot of little chances (like the survivors on Iceland) to "run out the clock" on them. Just because the strategy failed doesn't mean it didn't exist.
There were at least 15 Spetznaz missions planned, many were intercepted. One targeted the port of Hamburg and had a partial succes, one targeted a canal functioning as a supply line. Others that failed had NATO hq and comms as targets. Most groups were not able to report on succes or failure, so no follow-up action was made. That bit IS Russian, but they did start with strategy. They also had the entire Maskirovka planned to take Nato unprepared, and had planned to be done in three days like Ukraine. Well, maybe a few days more, but they DID plan for a real fast strike. After that they did the same as in Ukraine: keep pounding harder
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 And it all fell apart thanks to a middle age French Woman in a Sedan and a careless Spetnaz Major who didn’t know common road rules.
"It seems a bit of an extreme solution, but it's a book."
True, though that was basically the same rationale behind preemptive warfare initiated by Imperial Japan, so it's not THAT strange an idea.
Yeah and look how it turned out to then
@@carso1500 the russians got destroyed
To be fair, they would be most effective on the offensive. It was widely thought that Warsaw Pact countries could overwhelm Germany before the U.S. bring in any significant reinforcements. There really is no scenario where West Germany would survive. There's a possibility they could have taken France as well, but most likely the offensive would peter out in France. Of course the book assumes thy had enough forces to wage a 2 front war like that, which I doubt they could have done effectively. Not to mention they would still have to keep the East fortified against attack (though a secret treaty with China could have had them come into the war if they were attacked there- I'm talking fictional here).
@@jimmym3352 one year later, we see that Russia has had some serious issues with corruption and while Ukraine is bigger then Western Germany, they would have had to fight in urban environment a lot more, likely against a load of militias
Then again, the addition of the other Warsaw pact countries could have helped, especially the DDR forces would IMHO be quite efficiënt and least susceptible to corruption
@@jimmym3352 But as Clancy pointed out, those ATGMs (though back then Milan and TOW) were quite effective in comparison. So as we see now since Feb 24th, those pre war planning assumptions might have been overly pessimistic; and that for good reason, how do you speed up procurement of more kit and tank divisions? By not underestimating your dictatorial, imperialistic adversary.
We're pretty much looking at this very scenario, right now, in Ukraine.
I'm actually shocked how accurate TC was in predicting Russia's performance.
Yeah, the accuracy of Russian missiles isn't great. It took 18 missiles for the Russian navy to take out one bridge SW of Odessa...17 misses before one hit: 6% hit rate.
He also described the deficiencies of the Red Army being worked out in the months before the invasion. Putin skipped that part of the book: too boring
@@sonar357 trust me bro
@@zimbabwesteve4620 And also capability. The Russian armed forces are riddled with corruption to the point that basically none of their naval fleets are viable military platforms and their air force can't even gain air superiority over Ukraine.
@@sonar357 And I wish we could have provided C-RAM to Ukraine to shoot down many more... Would still help right now to get more grain into Romanian ports.
Russian :"Let's Prepare a war with USA!!!"
Also Russian :"They have know our plan Comrade!!"
Russian :"How Could they?"
Also Russian :"Because we don't use *NordVPN*
чувак, у нас теперь впн-ы запрещают законодательно )
Oversimplified reference
@@DeDyson www.reuters.com/technology/russian-consumer-watchdog-bans-vyprvpn-opera-vpn-services-2021-06-17/ our gov agency started banning vpn services that dont agree to restrict access to websites they ask. They already asked that of Nordvnp who wouldnt probably agree to do that
@Ярослав Л
You know your comment is racist.
That's a statement I made there.
I know you know that because ALL EASTERNERS are smart
@@DriveLaken I Am Asian, not Western
I recommend the series of book Battlefield from the autor James Rosone, it's pretty much Red Storm Rising but with the geopolitics and the technologies of today
Reading Korea right now! Was gunna recommend the same series.
I got to get that book Battlefield
Agreed, great series. Obviously inspired by RSR. The CCP volumes are insightful.
Not very realistic though. When Red storm came out, it was closer to reality, i was based in West Germany at the time. With the Soviet 3rd Army just down the road. Now its all Russia has to maintain a peace time army.
Nice
RSR is my favorite Clancy novel, and I've read most of the originals. That reminds me, from 2nd to 6th grade, I turned in the same book report (The Hunt for Red October). Got an A every year. Good times. 🤣
That book is SO GOOD. I wish he wrote more like it, imo it felt like nothing he wrote Red October really hit the same quality.
I tried reading Bear and the Dragon afterwards and it was almost offensively bad
@@RaidsEpicly Luckily, I didn't read RSR first, or I would've been mildly disappointed in the later works. They're all good, but I enjoyed the multiple storylines and locations. Plus, with RSR, you could tell he really was more of a weapons than tactics guy. You can see him delve deeper into tactics and strategy in later books, but RSR was almost like reading a battle order off a list, which worked well telling so many different stories at once. I still get the same images in my head right now thinking about it, that I did as a 10 year old reading it, weird.
@@sirbader1 Funny you say that, RSR was actually my first Clancy. I enjoyed it, although I never really understood what the Soviets' actual objective was in the book, or why they didn't just attack in the Middle East first. I understand there was the risk of going nuclear, but then, isn't that always there? Anyway I loved the technical feel of it, probably the most technical of Clancy's books I read. You definitely get the feeling he was really eager to show off all his cool knowledge about Cold War weapons and tactics.
@@RaidsEpicly Same, I think he really tried to outdo himself with the complexity of the plots after that. That whole trilogy (Debt of Honor, Executive Orders, and Bear and the Dragon) seemed to decline in quality as it went. I did really like Cardinal of the Kremlin, Red Rabbit and Sum of All Fears, though, pretty amazing spy novels. And out of the newer ones, Threat Vector is pretty decent, although it's debatable how much of that one Clancy really wrote.
Yeah, I should clarify, I mean the originals, not the later works. Rainbow 6 was alright.
Whose watching this while the war in ukraine is ongoing?
Oddly enough I started rereading this in early January this year and then reread it again just before Putler started this little war
Read the book two years ago, still have it and go back from time to time
Just watched this video. I recall from the book that many Russian tanks were defeated by mobile AT teams using ATGMs to shoot-and-scoot. Incredibly similar to the NLAW and Javelin use early in war. Also, NATO went after Russian supplies using the secret stealth aircraft in the book, while Ukraine used HIMARS with similar effect.
Currently comparing and contrasting
Still watching.
Came back up on my feed.
It's already a good day when covert cabal uploads
Thus write fans of literally every TH-cam channel.
The copy-paste has to be more effort than just coming up with your own comment, surely?
My favorite Clancy novel. I still remember some of the code words - "dreamland", "trumpeter", " vampire", "bear".
The Frisbees of Dreamland! Haha that was fun
@@CovertCabal The Race of the Cripples (hope I got that right). Lost the book in the '90s. Also read "The Third World War: the Untold Story" by sir John Hackett.
@@diosdado0711 sword point by Harold Noyle is about the Russians invading Iran, and the US launching one to "protect" them. Someone has an accident, a US carrier is sunk and in retaliation the Soviet one too, and then the gloves come off
The Soviet steamroller is nothing like what we have seen this year... The logistic problems, yeah, they got that right
Ah, Red Storm Rising, my first-ever book read in English as no translation was available at the time. Such a page-turner! Been sticking to original language versions ever since.
If y’all think red storm rising would be a little too much, I recommend reading team yankee. It’s a cool book about a American armor company fighting in ww3. If you want a Warsaw Pact side I also recommend Red army my Ralph peters. A awesome book that goes more in-depth than team yankee, it goes from strategic all the way down to the soldier level for stories. If you like both books you’ll definitely like red storm rising. They make a awesome little trilogy.
I've read both novels and I agree they are both great reads.
Damn, he completely predicted the Russia Ukraine war 😂💀
So the US against it's agreements expanded NATO into Ukraine?
He predicted the cause at least….NATO encroachment in Russia’s backyard.
Well.. The ending of this video aged unfortunately bitter..
Knew it wouldn’t be a successful Independence Day without Covert Cabal uploading on such an occasion 🇺🇸
Yeah, he's such an anti Russian propagandist CC should of had the 'Star Spangled Banner' playing in the background.
Yeah, Russia is doing soooo well right now in their "totally not an invasion", right? Right?
Russia is really more like a pale yellow today rather than red.
Somebody is making uninformed RA RA USA RA comments. Thier missiles are better and more advanced (hypersonic) plus S400 & S500 Anti Ballistic Milliles. There ship fleet aand land vehicles have all had a refresh. Done by them not having a bureaucratic military industrial complex which makes US pay 6 times more for weopons. New Subs even - Level 4.... You have a narrow view which is far from being accurate I am afraid.
@@kiwitelevision As funny as its sounds I still like russian made weapons hahah🤣🤦♀️ i think i have fetish on commie weapons lol, maybe most of you'd agree too.
@@richelle9563 I'm the same. Channel "COMBAT APPROVED" is an excellent channel covering all the Russian military weapons up-to-date. I like their ability to manufacture awesome weapons on 1/6 of the US budget for defenders. The hypersonic weapons are evil. Plus I don't like the way Americans think they have any right to be so self righteous and elitist ... Rubs my rhubarb
@@kiwitelevision lmao his comment really upset you
@@kiwitelevision Kiwi TV
We all gone die anyways
Some just faster than others lol
As the Russian debacle unfolded I remembered this book - I think my last several read copy fell apart 20 years ago. So I found a nice used copy and have read it through a couple times in the last year. Whiles the two situations are not at all the same, Clancy's takes on Russian mentality and the parallels between his fiction and current reality are just unreal.
With less hardware than before, they will leverage their cyber warfare. Thus the importance of going back to basics and training to fight under degraded information and technological capabilities.
@@zykom1 i think you underestimate the us reliance on technology and information. I would say thats its biggest weakness now
@@zykom1 the biggest weakness of the us is its power grid. Take that out and it loses so much of its abilities. I think its been proven over and over again how the us isnt ready for a combined attack on its infrastructure. Imagine trying to manage a war when the homefront is in complete shambles. I dont think the us is ready for ww3. Its military is strong, but very weak at the same time. I dont think countries like china and russia have the same weakness.
They are cyberattacking sweden right now at full force. Read the news. Little more than a nuisance.
@@zykom1 no, not referring to that. We are constantly being probed, and since our government is a clusterfuck of idiots who put a complete list of swedish government, military and police personnel on serbian servers a few years back all targets are easy pickings.
@@zykom1 all big nations screw.with each other is some.way. its just what happens. But the us should REALLY invest in its power grid and cyber warfare. So what you want about china, they at least have a unified vision.
That's efficient, they made the documentary in advance so they wouldn't have to do one later. Genius.
I'm not going to lie, the last few minutes of this video, where you addressed a likely scenario is EXACTLY what is going on today. Spot on.
I’ve worked transportation for the army in both the ports of Bremerhaven and Antwerp. It’s very interesting to see how vulnerable the operations are from a strategic standpoint.
The soviets did focus on command and control with their first strike spetznaz units, which were pre-empted by one getting hit by a car and NATO discovering their plot.
I thought they just blew i up radio towers and stuff? I don’t remember them attacking actual headquarters and stuff.
@@Rokaize The plan also included the sabotage of Western European ports and supply depots and an attack on the NATO HQ in Brussels.
@@bluewavechris in the book or in real life? I honestly can’t remember the part you mentioned.
@@Rokaize In the book.....I would have to look up the pages....I have read the book so many times over the years I am sure of it.
@@bluewavechris I believe you. Like I said I just can’t remember that part. Did they not hit those other targets because that one spetsnaz guy got hit by a car?
we have seen this in Ukraine it is not a red storm it is a red fart
Lmao 🤣
Id love to see this done again considering the current conflict revealing alot of battle data on the russian equipment
He also predicted the problems in the Red Army. Lies about training hours while actually helping bring in the harvest, older soldiers stealing from new recruits, stuff like that. In the book they worked hard to remove them, and most worked. That is why we don't hear of any corruption and empty fuel tanks in the first week. Putin found this part of the book boring and skipped it
@@sjonnieplayfull5859More to it than just that…. In the book the Americans are tipped off BECAUSE the Soviets shot 4 colonels for falsifying readiness reports…..Putin was bluffing Ukraine and increasing his readiness levels in advance would have tipped off the US who would have likely stepped in earlier and made bluffing impossible. Turned out the US was already balls deep in causing the conflict and it didn’t matter. NATO wouldn’t let Ukraine back down and resolve the issues without a fight and it went to open war.
Now compare this video one year later, with how bad the Russian army truly is, how bad some of their equipment is actually fairing in combat and how much Europe has come together.
Well it’s pretty amazing how much changed in a year… nobody is afraid of Russian conventional power anymore. Most NATO countries could handle them solo given how poorly they’ve done.
We would really love a collaboration with matsimus
I've talked to him a few times. Good guy!
The only thing that matters in the war is LOGISTICS. Fancy super advanced weapons are great, but how many do countries have in stockpiles? How quickly they can be produced, assuming you even have all required components or capabilities to manufacture them?
also the weird thing is US has +800 military bases around the world. and all countries around the world combined have only around 40 bases operating overseas. US Is a military giant.
@Pantelis Tzimas Aegis ships would like a word
@Pantelis Tzimas I’ll take 2 Arleighs and 1 Ticonderoga, one of the standard escort groups for a carrier. Determining how many anti-air missiles each one has is difficult as all the missiles and the ships’ Tomahawk compliment use the Mk. 41 VLS, so individual load outs can vary, and the ships carry different types of SAMs with some (like the ESSM) able to be quad-packed into the VLS cells. What I do know is that Arleighs have 96 VLS cells and Ticonderogas have 122 cells, so as a rough estimate (and this a guess off of what I know) is 240 to 300 SAMs plus CIWS, chaff, flares, and EW suites (this is excluding the carriers own defenses).
@Pantelis Tzimas And all three kinzhals are shot down during the terminal guidance phase. One major problem with current hypersonic weapons is that the built in sensors of the weapons can’t see through the plasma sheath created by traveling at such high speeds. Therefore, hypersonic weapons have to slow down during the terminal phase to low supersonic speeds in order to reacquire the target and guide itself in, making them vulnerable to a ship’s defenses. For more information on this check out this video: th-cam.com/video/r-ASc5LSF3U/w-d-xo.html and pg. 21 of this RAAF report: airpower.airforce.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-03/BPAF01-Hypersonic-Air-Power.pdf
@Pantelis Tzimas So did you read either of my sources or did you just reject what I said because you didn’t agree with it?
Damage to the ports was discussed in Red Storm Rising - Special Operations teams could cause craploads of damage to bridges and rail lines.
This was a plot point in one of the early chapters, that the SO teams were discovered after one got hit by a car.
7 months later and it’s exactly as you predicted.
Attacks on command and control nodes were mentioned in the book in the hours leading up to the war. The part that we read was one Spetznaz attack that was discovered with the Soviet team lead was hit by a car while picking up his orders.
I read the book way back in the late 80s while on active duty USAF. Great read, little bit biased towards NATO (maybe😁). For an opposing view, on the level of Team Yankee and World War III, read Red Army by Ralph Peters. Very good read from the Soviet viewpoint. Honestly, in the 80s, I think it really could have been flip a coin to see who would have won a conventional war in West Germany. Whomever caught the most breaks, would have probably won. Definitely would have probably been some of the bloodiest conflict ever.
The US had a limited battlefield Nuclear Strike package that was REQUIRED to be integrated into the overall NATO Battle operation plan due to sheer enormity of their and the Warsaw pact Armor divisions and it Looks Like Putin has adopted the Slow Massive Power Red War Machine all us old Cold Warriors knew and respected....but alas, the modern day Russians have teeth but nothing like the Mighty Massive Armies the Soviets Welded in the 80's....i was in the Us Navy back then both afloat and shore Admiral Intel Staffs....
@@ouicb Yeah, the Russian Bear is but a shadow of its former self now. Of course, neither do we have the troop levels either. But, I still think we have the advantage in a conflict today. I think it will be the reverse in a conflict with Putin. We would dominate and back the Russians into a corner. Then, they will come out with nukes. Kinda the opposite of the Cold War. I see where Germany is starting to rearm. German government just increased their military budget to 500 million euros. About time they wake up. They also need to deal with the influx of Arabs. That is a danger to the German nation too.
@@ouicb the teeth are kinda gone by now... Who knows next year, but for now...
@Stanley Harell: from what we see today, the bias was probably too much in favor of the Red Army...
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 I always wondered about that too back in the 80s. If the balloon would have went up and we could have gotten air dominance in the first couple of days, it would gotten ugly for the Soviets. We all learned really well from the Israelis in the Six Day war and Yom Kippur how to defeat Soviet tactics.
I actually read “Red Storm Rising” while being deployed in the Arctic Circle near a major soviet base in 1988. United States Marines….
Well at least i bet it prepared you to pull a LT Michael Edwards in case they invaded you lol
That made the book that much more enjoyable !!!
Not just a good concept for a new book, but an actual war as well.
There is a novel named "Red Metal" by Mark Greaney that provides a more modern context for a Russia/NATO war.
I read it too. It more realistic
@@arturoBbrito Anything is more realistic than the drivel Clancy spouted
@@pacus123 aww jealous
What a coincidense I just started reading red storm rising myself
Red Storm Rising is the kind of book that you can pick it up and just open any random page and start reading.
Absolutely!!!
Yeah, after recent events in Ukraine, I don't think this is much of a concern anymore. lol.
The funniest thing is, no one really know's what modern tank warfare involves. It has not really been tested with an even playing field.... The closest was desert storm,
I'm willing to bet it involves a lot of people getting killed very quickly. Beyond that who knows
Generals know. Tanks are useless now days. A $10,000 shoulder fired anti tank missile can destroy a million dollar tank. Tanks are even useless in 3rd world countries
It would be a very very short invasion.
I'm thinking this needs to be updated. NATO's missile defense combined with Russia's inability to do precision strikes would make a big change.
The very first ground combat action in the book is a Spetznaz attack on a NATO communication node. That specific attacks is stopped by GSG9 but the book mentioned that several other sites were not as lucky.
I loved those parts of the book as I find them the most fascinating. i still go back sometimes and read the chapters on the opening shots of the war. The hat tips to GSG9 and SAS against Spetsnaz were incredible.
Love these videos
The Navy may not have a direct S-3 Viking replacement but it does have the P-8 Poseidon though
"Do you really think your computer and cellphone are protected from hackers and snoopers? Do you worry about people tracking your online movements and stealing your personal data?"
IF SO, THEN ROUTING ALL YOUR DATA THROUGH A SINGLE PROVIDER IS PROBABLY NOT A GREAT IDEA. Just keep using the encryption built into your browser.
10:43 "there wasn't much strategy, the Soviets just faced their enemies head-on, costing them hardware and lives" yep, that's exactly how they would've done it, so Tom Clancy was 100% correct as proven true nearly 40 years later with Russia in Ukraine. They still have no strategy, or extremely limited if any.
I mean Russia can’t even take Ukraine
Team Yankee (Larry Bond, who co-authored RSR with Clancy) is another good read, using the same _The Third World War_ scenario Sir John Hackett wrote.
Don't forget that those same _buffer nations_ can't afford to lose access to cheap Russian gas. This could definitely put a wedge in the heart of NATO. Needless to say, and regardless of their dependence on natural gas, they won't take kindly to having T-14s drive through them.
Russia stopped production of the T-14 tank in 2018 after building just 20 of them. Not so scary.
@@alabamacoastie6924 That goes to show you how much I know about modern Ru tanks! :)
The nice thing is that they like living with Russian gas, but they *can* afford to live without it if they have to. Most of these states are exceedingly small and exceedingly wealthy and/or members of the EU which would open up methods to import energy.
@@alabamacoastie6924 Russia is having serious money issues in purchasing equipment. The Russian Gov't demands the United Aircraft Corporation to build more planes, but doesn't pay for them, and ask UAC to take out loans to pay for the aircraft, which in turn, they have all these outstanding loans, and jeopardizing the Russian Bank Industry..
Watching this after the invasion of Ukraine like 0_o
I literally started this book three days ago, it is amazing. And here you are releasing the video. Anyway, I am not going to watch this video,I just saw it in my recommendations. Once I'll deal with the I'll come back for the video.
I highly recommend the Fighter Pilot Podcast Episode on the F-117. They had Air to Air capabilities and possible missons
Checked the comments just to see if someone had said this!
Wait,,, what??? Is that realistic without an onboard radar for guidance? I've always thought of that possibility but have never read it proposed anywhere. Also, I've never heard anyone propose an RF-117 variant for reconnaissance.
@@jamesmiller6627 Just listened to the episode again. They had two high resolution IR Sensors, one looking forward and one down for ground target. The former pilot says that shooting down Soviet AWACS was their secondary mission in the cold war and that the Nighthawk carried every A/A Munition at its inception except for the Sparrow, since that needs a radar emitting plane. No AIM 120 back then but AIM 9s are just fine when they have no idea you're there
@@Kommentareable Thanks "Pimps"! That makes perfect sense. I will give that episode a listen. I just discovered that podcast a week or 2 ago. Just haven't stumbled upon the F117 episode. I've always felt that plane could do more than we were told it could publicly.
Glad someone brought this up. Yes we have those mission abilities.
Red 'Just a Light Breeze' Rising.
Did russia watch this video? And instead of making it a book, decided to make it happen? Seems to be the case to me
They skipped the last two pages of chapter four, where the officers forging statuts reports are 'corrected' in order to get the troops in fighting condition.
Then again, that part took place in Kiev, so quite natural for Putin to skip that part...
😂 Putin's like "needs more shovels"
As we just saw a few weeks ago, our SOSUS replacement is quite capable. The US Navy published the hour by hour location of a Russian sub meant to be doing a patrol off of Florida.
Hit the nail on the head. Now that we've seen Russia in the Ukraine, how does the scenario play out now?
TH-cam has the entire original Red Storm Rising recorded to listen to. Many of the chapters are animated showing the engagements. Just look up Red Storm Rising audiobook. It's over 30 hours of listening.
"...if you have the time..." When i was a kid in school it took me nearly 4 months to finish! LOL
Bingo! And I have to admit, in 9th grade I didn't understand a word of the submarine warfare but couldn't put it down regardless!
@@jamesmiller6627 I finished it in 2 mounths when in HS
One of the best books ever made honestly, reading red phenix rn by lerry bond and it doesn't disappoint me
Also as a military nerd what made me angry is that the russians never deployed costal defense systems in iceland, despite them making a important part of naval tactics and strategy
Also the fact they deployed mig-29s in iceland instead of the much longer ranged su-27s, and I get that many A-50 have been destroyed by the discount nighthawk clone in the book,but couldn't they really let one for iceland? Seems kinda an important place to defend
@@lil__boi3027 Good point on the SU-27s but when the book was written (1985-1986), were they fully in the field operationally?
@@jamesmiller6627 entered service in 1984 in small numbers initially iirc, it should been there
In a way j-20 service status is similar to su-27 back then, in service but not in the numbers to come later
How would a war go between the USA and Russia today?
USA: Russia is one of our greatest threats.
Russia: *Today's war in Ukraine*.
USA: I greatly overestimated your ability.
Great book. Some awesome chapters in it. Two that I'll never forget are the M1 Abrams removing speed restriction devices to outflank russian tanks at night, and Russian bear bombers attacking A US Nimitz class Carrier.
"Dance of the Vampires" - one of my favourite chapters
@@alanhughes6753 Still trying to make that happen in DCS.
Edit Unless the Russians pull off that drone fake out, the Russian bombers get slaughtered before they can launch their first missile. I've had to use trigger points to get them close enough without the E-2 finding them.
The naval attacks in RSR are both thrilling and chilling. I can't imagine the dread knowing that supersonic missiles are headed right for the thing keeping you alive in the ocean.
Just want to point out that the S-3 Viking WAS replaced, by the MH-60 LAMPS. Coupled with virtually every ship in a given fleet also operating their own ASW helo(s) nowadays, plus the much more widespread proliferation of maritime patrol bombers (P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon, etc), the loss of coverage is pretty minimal.
In 1986, I was a young US Army Sargent in Northern West Germany, and reading the newly released book was surreal.
I remeber those days
when Reagen said "Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall" I thought he was making a joke
three years later I celebrated new year in a free east Germany (we didn't have to show our passports on the border, well that was new)
What would happen today? A resounding NATO victory,.
Welp, do I even need to say it?
Famed quote from an earlier chapter in the book "regimental commander is too old for field action and instead reads his f-word-ing parade manuals than going to action" says a lot about how russia forms its tank columns
I’m gonna be honest here, Russia is just a regional power like Turkey or Iran, but with Nukes.
I agree that Russia’s power is over hyped way too much but I disagree with calling them a regional power. I view them as a great power on par with countries like France and the uk. The collapse of the Soviet Union is kinda like the callapse of the French and uk empires in the 50-60s with both france and the uk trying to regain there old influence in there former colonies just like how Russia is trying to regain influence in there post soviet republics.
Well Russia could easily destroy the United States if provoked. Not the other way round.if u think that it is overhyped then America is overconfident of its reality. Russia is a superpower. America is joker that simply can't compete and intervenes everywhere only to be defeated remember Afghanistan Vietnam even Iraq and now Syria where the Russians defeated America and American funded Isis terrorists.
You people live in world full of yourself.🤡🤡
@@amritnimiyar5033 good troll. Goodnight :)
@@amritnimiyar5033 shrinking demographics, vastly smaller economy and terrible geography for power projection. Yep Russia is stronger than America. /Sarcasm
@@calebemerson9317 OK so anyone with a different opinion than yours is a troll? You are doin great.
Love RSR
I can listen to the LA Class vs Alpha class fight over and over and love it when a Brit spearfish gets the Alpha
The F-117 actually had AIM-9s and had the task of killing AWACS. You can confirm this if you listen to the interview of a F-117 on the fighter pilot podcast. He mentioned the AIM-9 when they talked about the F-117s armament.
That's interesting, I think in the novel if I remember correctly, the f117 only had bombs, right?
@@kbanghart Well I thought the same but it turns out there was more than bombs . I guess after 1991 and the fall of the Soviet Union the AWACS killer mission wasn't needed and I think that is the reason we really never saw the F-117 displaying that capability . Never the less it had that capacity . When it comes to the novel I can't say if it had or not that capability but I would think that it wasn't included .
Dude, Red Storm Rising is my favorite Tom Clancy book, I would take a sack of his books with me when I worked Security night shift, nothing better than locking a big ass building up tight, smoking a lil doobie out back and then reading for 6 undisturbed hours in a massive office building lol.
DUDE WEED LMAO
grow up
@@HYDRAdude Or I can do whatever I want, and you can continue to be an authority on what people should and shouldn't do as grown ups.
Thanks for doing this love the book and your review
I would not be surprised if the F-117 did in fact gave the ability to carry AIM-9 Sidewinders (which are IR guided and require no radar) and thus be able to sneak up and kill enemy AWACS.
Also Tom Clancy did tons of research for his novels and a lot of info in his books was based off of what was essentially intel gathering. This was before the days of the internet.
The 117 could carry the aim-9s
It will go down like this, fruhstuck in Berlin, petite dejeneur in Paris, siesta in Madrid and tapas in Porto, all in one day. Did I mention the Dutch don’t have live ammo ?
that is something of the past my friend. Defence budget have been increase and will do so for the next years
In case of war, the command and control structure doesnt remain in those big buildings that you see during peace time. One of the first things they do is move everything that matters out to secondary or tertiary spots. When NATO attacked my country (Yugoslavia) that was the first thing they did, like you said. They tracked all the big buildings like army HQ, recruitment centers, barracks, communication nodes etc and bombed them. The problem was, those buildings were empty, there was nothing there; the moment NATO airplanes took off from their bases in Europe, we had people on the ground spotting them all the way as they neared one of the several vectors/routes, and based on those routes you could determine where they were heading and based on take off load you could predict the type of mission they were carrying out.
So in your fantasy scenario the Soviets wouldnt launch cruise missiles to hit some buildings, because that would be a waste of resources. What they would do is use GRU infiltration teams and hit things in enemy's depth. Catching enemy command and control staff would be hard, but things like supply depots (fuel, ammo etc) could cause chaos.
Actually that's exactly what they tried to do in the book, but due to some lack of luck the Russian sabotage plans were exposed to NATO counter-espionage, so those commando teams got trapped. Which wasn't too much credible either but - yes, your point is very good.
People dont appreciate the size of the basically army GRU used to have back in the day. I think something like a million soldiers would be designated to go behind enemy lines and raid strategic locations. Pretty insane.
The Battlefield-series by Miranda Watson and James Rosone is a modern variant of Red storm rising.
According to the Fighter Pilot podcast interview with an F117 pilot they did have air to air capability and one of their missions was to kill AWACS.
They could take any weapon that fit the bomb bay.
No air-to-air weapons were ever fitted to the F-117's internal bays. And if the U.S. paid the billions required to modify the bays, they would still be useless because the plane was not fitted with a radar or avionics to make them work. The pilot who spoke was speaking of a theoretical conflict and a theoretical capability that was discussed but never implemented. It would have been a secondary mission, anyway. The idea would have been to have the F-117 go in and deliver a strike package, then pick off a couple targets of opportunity on the way home (they could never get into any type of maneuvering fight with a full bomb load).
I wish that pilot never phrased this discussion the way he did, because it was misinterpreted by a great many people. He should have been more clear that this was not something the plane was actually capable of accomplishing - but, theoretically, could be with significant modifications or a new variant (which was, indeed, discussed). I believe they even batted around the idea of a carrier-borne variant of the F-117 at one point.
You say you don't understand why the Soviets didn't attack command and control centers in the book, when the first thing they did to kick off the war was to use special ops forces to attack command and control centers. (?)
If a war happened today at this exact moment, Russia would lose much more as the US has the fastest hypersonic missiles defense in the world in the ground based midcourse defense capable of mach 33 and Sm-3 capable of hitting ICBMs in their midcourse phase. We have the most nuclear submarines, Russia has no chance. They even stated any missile attack they will take as nuclear, that's how scared of the US they are.
"MOSCOW - Russia will perceive any ballistic missile launched at its territory as a nuclear attack that warrants a nuclear retaliation, the military warned in an article published Friday.
The harsh warning in the official military newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda (Red Star) is directed at the United States, which has worked to develop long-range non-nuclear weapons.
The article follows the publication in June of Russia’s nuclear deterrent policy that envisages the use of atomic weapons in response to what could be a conventional strike targeting the nation’s critical government and military infrastructure."
Lol, Russia is number 1 in icbm and hypersonic missiles.
@@lefthook2 Ignorance is bliss.
"The GBI consists of a 3-stage solid rocket boost vehicle which can place it's payload of an Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle outside the earth's atmosphere. In order to do this the missile must reach an escape velocity of more than 6.9 miles per second. This hypersonic speed is several times what a 7.62mm bullet travels leaving the muzzle of a gun. To put it another way, it reaches a speed of approximately Mach 33."
The best ICBM in the world is the Trident 2, which is sub launched and still reaches speeds of mach 24 and over 13,000km range.
All the Russias have is their propaganda they bring up about the RS-28 which isn't even active.
The US despite preferring subsonic, not even supersonic, LO, sea skimming under the radar horizon, missiles that can maneuver still have better hypersonic weapons then Russia. But all the Russias always believe the propaganda they are fed, as the US has had hypersonic missiles since the 70's in the Aim 54 which flew on the F14s. But since hypersonic missiles lack maneuverability, need thicker atmosphere, can have a layer of plasma burning so hot any IRST let alone AESA radar would see, do to the modern ram/scram jet engine, and thus need to take a ballistic path makes them only good for first strikes, nuclear strikes, or strikes on stationary targets. Every missiles type has it's pros and cons.
@@ThatCarGuy
hahaha what a bunch of BS, typical murican ignorance.
First of all the GMD missiles are way too few to intercept any massive Russian ICBM, SLBM barrage. Second the GMD is not so effective as you think, basically it cant handle very well ICBMs, SLBMs with multiple reentry vehicles, even in the scripted testing scenarios the GMD has 55% chance to hit one warhead, its been calculated that it needs 3 or even 4 GMDs to give a 97% chance against a singe warhead, now imagine an ICBM having 10 or more warheads plus decoys, which basically all of Russians arsenal have multiple reentry vehicle ballistic missiles, same goes for most China's. Right now US has less than 50 GMD interceptors each cost more than 75 million dollars.
There is no way you can stop a massive nuclear retaliation from Russia and China, especially Russia. And its gets worse since new russian ICBMs, SLBMs like RS-24 Yars, RS-28 Sarmat or the Bulava SLBM have been made specifically to avoid such interceptors as GMD by constantly change trajectory.
Even the SM-3 and THAAD to intercept anything they would have to catch the ballistic missile in the terminal phase which means the multiple warheads and decoys would have already separated travelling with enormous speeds, the chances are very low and those interceptors(SM-3/THAAD) are mostly made capable to intercept intermediate ballistic missiles or single warhead ICBMs with no manoeuvring capability and even then their chances are not very great, but manoeuvring ICBM, SLBM as I mention above no fucking chance.
Read also that. armscontrolcenter.org/issues/missile-defense/gmd-frequently-asked-questions/
www.armscontrol.org/act/2021-05/features/advice-missile-defense-sleuth-defense-department-fix-troubled-weapons-program
As for nuclear subs, you forgot to count that Russia has many dozen diesel subs also, which you dont have to underestimated, modern diesel electric subs are very dangerous, yes they dont have the range and provisions for stay out in the sea as long as a nuclear sub but they are have one maintain advantage, they are significant quieter. Remember what a single small swedish diesel-electric sub did against your aircraft carrier armada in an exercise, they sink all the armada multiple times without even getting detected which force the USN to ask Sweden to led one of their diesel subs for a couple years to find methods of counter it. And those diesel-electric subs are ideal to operate in closed seas like Black Sea, Baltic Sea and shallow waters. In closed seas a diesel-electric sub is way more dangerous than a nuclear sub, it has the advantage and 90% of the times it will track and fire first against a nuclear sub.
But if you are talking about ballistic missile nuclear subs only, the difference between US and Russia are not so big, US has 14 and Russia 12.
If we count all subs, US has 71 and Russia 58.
So to answer your BS, both countries will lose it all, so statements like "Russia would lose much more" are bollocks. I can say even since Russia have so massive land it can take adsorb more effective a nuclear hit.
Russia still have a large missile arsenal. They would rather cut their navy or army than ICBM. Their army is for middle power countries but their icbm are for high power countries.
Modern armchair generals like you are something else. You somehow manage to be informed and delusional at the same time.
Double edged sword. Russia thinks NATO is trying to surround them, ex baltic states and Europe think Russia has big plans and all join NATO (a defensive pact). Ex Baltic states have not forgotten what they went though with the USSR, and its well known that Putin wants to recreate it. So you have to look from each others POV. I would only say this, If NATO said 'Ok, lets disband NATO'.. Would Russia really play nice and not try to expand/influence where not wanted? not land grab and not infiltrate? There's a very good reason why so many wanted to join NATO. Russia trying to act like its done nothing wrong is the reason its quite an isolated country. In the west and NATO, many of us see Russia's frustration and actually do agree on some points, but they do themselves zero favours by denying everything and sticking their heads in the ground when their actions are proved wrong. Here's to friendship, but I think both sides leaders need enemies to stay in power. There's the problem right there.
Welp...
Those long range missiles won't have that massive of an impact.
It will hurt, but it can be overcome, as we see today
LOL, 1 year later we discover the reality of what would happen. Russia would be crushed. Their military is so screwed up. I think we always overestimated the Soviets, and we have grossly overestimated the Russian Federation military.
People should read more Russian military history and see the common patterns. Russia does fine when against an invader, though with initial blunders. However, when Russia is the invader, their military performs abysmally.
i didn't realize till the end that this was two years old. funny how accurate this is
Today, Russia doesn't go after command and control facilities very much!
Their way of war is very strange indeed and all they seem to want to do is piss off the populace of the country they are at war with!
I'd say Clancy was pretty spot-on with regard to their war making strategy.
Well, given Russia's performance in Ukraine......
Relevant
You are incorrect about the F-117 not having an air to air mission "originally". Carriage of the AIM 9 Sidewinder and AGM 122 Sidearm (anti radar sidewinder) was in the load out and we had the planned mission as a SUAWACS killer. I was present for more than one Sidewinder test on an aircraft fuselage mockup and an airborne test firing. Also on the aircraft was the RLS (RADAR Locator System) to monitor enemy RADAR. I retired off the F117 and was on the program from 1986 until 2003 as an Avionics and Weapons Field Service Rep and Engineer including deployment for 7 months during Desert Storm with the 416th TFS/37th TFW. The Acft also had a planned CAS tasking with AGM-65 Mavericks, CBU-87s and a proposal to add a removable gun pod in the weapons bay, the gun would fire through a gap between the fuselage and bay door when the weapons bay was slightly opened, The AGM65 was not removed as a selection until approx 1989.
There's something called "Red Storm: Battlefield Ukraine", which is the 1st part of 6 books, from 3 or 4 years ago.
Haven't read it or listend to the audiobook, but THAT might be interesting now...
I also have the book, and am going to read it again. It was really a great book, and I still enjoy it.
The BEATING they'd take now, and then they'd have to deal with us.
Watching this now feels :/
I read this book about 20 years ago. Loved it. One of Clancy's best books. His research and knowledge of military tactics and weapons are unmatched.
The US military really screwed themselves by letting a lot of their traditional war fighting capabilities wither away. After the Cold War ended we didn't have any near-peer enemies. Until 9/11 the US military was basically playing the role of global policeman. The War On Terror changed our military doctrine even more. Now the American Armed Forces are scrambling to regain the abilities we had to fight a traditional war again. I'll bet the F-22 Raptor program would still be up and running if anyone in the DOD saw China coming. The Air Force was supposed to buy over 800 of them according to the original plan. But the factories were shuddered because the plane didn't have any adversaries that could compete with it. And with the massive cost of each airframe, the Air Force couldn't justify buying so many
Missed you CC!
now its really real.
After the fall of the USSR it was possible to truly get a feel for the capabilities of the red army in the 70s/80s, it became apparent that the technology gap between east and west was much greater than had been known at the time, and any land war would have been a defeat for the USSR. The technology gap has massively increased over the last 30 years as Russia cannot afford to maintain what they have now, let alone develop new weapons. Instead they are taking the approach of claiming to have all sorts of new wonder weapons which are undefeatable (sound familiar? WWII German V weapons). But any massive defeat, then or now, would almost certainly end up going nuclear, and no-one wins there.
The US hid its military tech advances as well as it could.
Bring in RedEffect to discuss the tank warfare.
Bring Matsimus and red effect mostly to balance each other out red effect is a little biased towards Russian equipment
It was a Soviet Major General that stopped the use of the nukes, by claiming he needed direct control as the battlefield changes rapidly and hence he needs control of the warheads. Also the lack of taking the war to the US is explained as keeping it European to align with the "makistrova' as described.
That's " m a s k i r o v k a ", comrade.
As always you are putting out very insightful and well thought out infos.
Look at NATO maps of the past. Who is invading who?
invation yes but not with millitary so you cant blaim NATO and west is trying to invade Russia 200 since the Napoleon wars...
God forbid European countries become fully independent and stop supporting a totalitarian state.
Aged like fine Mayo on a hot summer‘s day 😅
I guess we all over estimated Russia
It would look like Russia not being able to get 100 miles into Ukraine 🇺🇦 without getting the shit kicked out of them.