In Finland (home country of ABLOY company), where practically every lock is ABLOY the burglars never bother to try picking a lock. They rather try wrenching the door 'open' by breaking up the hinges. Or, if it's a house, they go through one of the windows.
That's probably the case everywhere, twisting a lock off/door open with a breaker bar or just breaking a window is faster and easier than picking a lock. The vast majority of burglars are not professionals and probably don't know how to pick locks anyway, even if that was an option.
or the hinge pins, most of these just take a few whacks with a hammer and nail and they pop out (although it wont work on older hinges where the pin is part of the hinge or on newer doors with security studs) to anyone who sees this: security screw fit in most door hinges and cost $10 for 1-3 doors (1 if you want 6 studs on each door, 3 if you only use the needed 2). they are about as worth it as lock bypass-tool protection
@@Zestence That's mostly what locks are for, if there are signs of break in, the insurance will pay off, that is how they see you just did not forget to lock your door in which case insurance company can just bail out :)=
I've seen them twist the entire shield off with large pliers. That is why the new shield comes with hardened screws which resulted in two things. 1. I break about 4 sets of cutting pliers a year 2. I got a tennis elbow for cutting all those hardened screws with said pliers :)=
@@Zestence oh yeah, I'd just rather smash a window that defenatly doesn't make anyone suspicious IN THE MIDDLE OF A NIGHT AT A NEIGHBORHOOD. Also in Finland most people live in apartments. So, how would YOU approach the problem? You can practically only break into apartments if you have the key. If you go to neighborhoods, there is sometimes a flaw. You see some finnish leave their doors unlocked, I'm not sure about night, but sometimes they just might forget. And if the door is not unlocked, the doors on those buildings are so sturdy, don't even try that, the windows are the best way, but you cant break them without making a sound. So if you are a burglar in Finland. Well jokes on you, you live in the most secure country in the world
The problem with hammering the lock in Finland is that it is straight against a lock housing in the door, so there is 2cm thick steel mechanism under that lock, and the doors have 2mm thick aluminium or steel plates in each side of the main locking mechanism.
Kisuneko I mean I looked up bare ASSA (without ABLOY) and they still seem to be alive as a separate brand, with their own products. Given it's another old lock manufacturer in Sweden, I would imagine a lot of suck locks (pin tumblers) would also be in use there. Are there? It's curious there are very few videos of people picking even the classic half-moon ABLOY, given it's the go-to lock everywhere outside business and the equally classic tension & disk set tool is readily available. Feels cheating?
Abloy's main business model, btw is exploiting the patent law, so it can have monopoly on rekeying service on what ever its latest disk profile is. Businesses like this, as it is very hard to make copies of the new profile keys without permission. They started this with the groove C-profile and have went three generations since.
+Tanooki100 In Finland perhaps 1-2 out of 100 outdoor locks was an Assa in the past, a bit more in the internal doors or cabinets. The classic Abloy lock was picked by criminals i think from the 1960s on, by something called "vempele" = "gadget". I read in connection with a stolen Finnish identities case from the 1950s (by the Soviets as an international spy cover) that the KGB also had developed a similar device, which I remember was quoted as "the development having been quite a trouble to us". keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/1808107/muistaako-kukaan-quotvempelettaquot
One question: when the lock is installed in a door, isnt there something in the "back" of the door so you cant just hit the insides out. Atleast the abloy locks in my finnish house have so this method wouldn't be possible.
I live in Finland, and I have never seen an Abloy lock that has the housing accessible like that. Most Abloy locks have a solid piece of metal around the keyhole that makes this way of breaking the lock impossible. And even a lock like that was mounted somewhere, wouldn't the copper ring be against something, making pushing it out or breaking it impossible. You would have more luck breaking the wall around the door.
+Juha Tiensuu Tuollaisia käytetään esim. metallisen kassalaatikon ohuessa seinämässä, ja tuon lukkosylinterin perässä suoraan voi olla metallinen kieli joka kääntyy noin 90 astetta. Ja kyllä nuo haittalevyt sinne kassan sekaan mahtuu lentämään :-D Toki talon ovissa on avainpesän takana niitä vahvoja prikkoja, ettei siinä pääse mihinkään sisäänpäin lentämään.
J Tiensuu He only used his clamp to represent solid steel around the lock. Attack only hit the keyhole, but it requires open space behind the lock, like in a mailbox or money box. It only works on models with the weak locking ring on the back.
@@johnfrancisdoe1563 like J Tiensuu said "abloy locks have a salid piece of metal around the keyhole" and this solid piece of metal is massive, it weights 0,25 kilos so you cannot penetrate it with some bolt. Finnish S.W.A.T uses a ram, to brake the doors, you cannot lock pick them. If the lock is on bomb shelter, then good luck with that..
Right. That might be the case with a cash register (low security) or a locker (low security). But if its affixed to a door, the lock tumbler part is screwed onto the latch body, which supports the back and makes hitting out the core quite hard to accomplish. Alot of the doors in apartment buildings dont have doorhandles the key is used as a handle too.
This video had the information I was looking for. I had a 1960's stamp vending machine I picked up at an estate sale that came without a key. My lock had the initials K and D, but looked just like the Abloy locks I found online. Tried to pick the lock, no luck. Did not want to attempt to drill it out and damage the machine face. After learning about the weakness at the end of the lock, I felt this would be my best approach. If I was successful, I would have no problem replacing with a new lock and key, while still maintaining the same look as the original. After about 5 hard strikes, success. Thanks for creating this video and sharing.
Hi, finding your videos fascinating to watch. I spent 15 years (the entire 90s) working at the University of Kent in the UK as a carpenter. In the course of my work I also got to work on locks, Abloys especially were fun. I had no reservations about working on them because I knew they were so well made. This didn't stop at the core housing either. The rest of the lock was just as durable, almost armoured. So, though your demonstration above shows the lock failing, in reality, all you would do is crush the mechanism against the side of the main lock body making it inoperable at best. Liken it to a cop shooting a doorlock open. Nothing will move inside if it's mangled up. The bolt alone on some of those locks from the 80's were nearly 40mm tall and 10mm thick. That's a big cavity within the lock to be expected to slot back into. So by its destruction this lock will still keep you out. I know Just out of curiosity do you ever pick chubb dead bolts and the like? On an aside, after moving to France I had the privilege some years ago of adapting old keys to work old dead locks, some of which were several centuries old. At the time I worked on the restoration of the house of an antique dealer and mentioned I had experience with locks. After that I got to make keys to fit his locks. Did about fifteen in total and loved every minute of it. Finessing an old rusty key to fit a lock that hasn't been unlocked in decades, maybe longer, does give you a smug sense of satisfaction. Makes me smile seeing you use such delicate picks. A bent four inch nail would have been adequate for these old locks LOL! I took photos if you'd be interested in seeing them. Anyway, huge thanks for your vids. Yes, I have subscribed.
I have no professional involvement with locks and I don't really think this is about burglar proofing property it's kind of an Enthusiast Forum that I enjoy watching
you cant break it if the lock is installed correctly it doesnt have space to "move" the internals of the lock fully. The lock bar still stays in well atleast 50% of it stays so it cant turn and as most Abloy locks are nowdays 100% stainless steel it is unbreakable only way to fully break correctly installed Abloy lock is by breaking the door
Bill Thanks for posting weakness in this design. I do always take these weakness with a gran of salt..... If any of these locks were actually mounted in a real world application there would be a a extremely slim chance that this would work. I'm not disputing that the cylinder can be punched but the fact that there would not be enough room for it to fall out and allow access to the mechnisum to actually open the lock. And mortise lock would most likely be in a Adams rite store front style lock where I know there is little to no room for this to happen. In fact if you tied this it would most likely Jam the entire lock housing and then you would never get it open even from the inside! (with out drilling of coarse). Is there a problem YES, .............do I think that any random person who watches this video and tries this out is going to be successful with a mounted lock and actually break into something NO. Good video though!
Except they would work in the real world at least with the cam lock and mortise shown in the video. There is plenty of room behind those after hammering out the guts. With the mortise, a small hook through the plug hole would easily engage the mortise mechanism.
You are literally the only person that I've seen walk through step by step how to disassemble one of these. Super helpful video I've been struggling with an abloy lock on a vending machine that I bought used with no key. Going to test it out now! Thanks!
Let me guess... It didn't work, you fucked up the lock and then it got stuck... making the job 10x more difficult to conplete. (I would avoid this guy's "advice")
Other than the cam lock, every other iteration in the Abloy range does not have an open space behind the core to permit its removal in an assembled installation. Also, the brass and copper retainers are not used in later designs. Pointless to attack the core this way. In any event, if the core was dislodged from its housing the components would drop down into the lock assembly and most likely interfere with the latch or bolt assemblies. Much simpler to drill for manipulation points.
The Lock Picking Lawyer does a series of destructive attacks with a Ramset nailgun, he's gotten into everything he's tried it out on in one hit so far and hasn't even gotten close to using the thing with the highest capacity charge.
No, the movie was a movie. I remember whispering to my partner when we went to see it - 'no way'. But I was quiet and didn't disturb any other patrons.
Abloy probably appreciates this video. "I'ts amazing sir, this week alone we have had over 25,000 customers call in to purchase replacement core's because they're previous cores mysteriously seized up, bosnianbill put us back in the black!"
Isn't that kinda pointless? If you'll try to do that when it's on a door there's still the metal body of the actual locking mechanism agains't that core. I'm not an expert but doesn't that mean that all those guts are going to be stuck inside the core?
I'm going to point out that the only place that this will probably work very well is with the cam lock, as shown in the first part of the video. If you were to do this to a rim, mortise, or deadbolt cylinder, it would simply jam the mechanism behind it, causing a lockout. In a cam-type application, you generally have room behind the cam, and even if you didn't, whatever the lock body is mounted to could shift forward, allowing the knocking out of the guts. with any other type of lock, either the lock mechanism, or the lock parts bolted to the other side of the door would block the cylinder from exiting.
Quite clever way of lock picking. You literally bang the lock in with the mallet waking up the whole neighbourhood, while it would be easier to break the window and climb in.
Abloy locks do not have 16 discs ... they have 11 key discs and the rest are thin spacers that make up the disc pack. Abloy also no longer uses soft retainer rings to hold the disc packs in.
When I saw how easy it is to breach those locks, it reminded me of that Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns and Mr. Smithers go into the master control room of the nuclear power plant, going through elaborate security passages a lá “Get Smart”, only to have a stray dog sniffing in the room and Mr. Burns kicking it out and slamming shut a flimsy ripped screen back door.
Thanks so much! I have an older abloy lock that the key is long gone but still locked. This just what I needed. Then I can open the case and replace the lock new again.
Thanks Bill. I'm quite new to this sport, so might be wrong, but there seems to be another obvious exploit: Surely, if you drill a hole through the front of the lock, in the right place, you can either extract the sidebar, or else drill right through it, and then rotate the barrel with a lever? That position seems to be the centre of the base of the 'L' on the mortise lock faceplate, and under the '--' clockwise from the 'A' on the first lock. That's also in line with the actuator spigot of both lock types.
I stumbled here, googling for inner workings of Sento. I just installed a brand new Sento core today, to replace a Classic that was greased with some vasile or something and just doesn't work in -25c temperatures we are having in Finland. The new core was working perfectly after installation, but now after couple of hours, it behaves as if I was offering it the wrong key. Something wonky going on. It seems the sidebar wont drop. Now that I know the new sento works pretty much like a classic, I suspect some moisture was left inside while installing on a -20c day and the sidebar froze in place. I guess I'll try to heat it tomorrow. Maybe give it a smack while the key is in open position. Aaanyway, interesting exploit. But it would not work in typical Abloy installations where the core is sandwinched between the frontplate and some kind of a back plate, screwed together. The innards just wouldn't have anywhere to go.
I work at Walmart, and they have started using Abloy padlocks on the trailers that bring in supplies to the stores. It took 15 minutes for the driver just to get the trailer unlocked using the key. Mainly because you have to put the key in at an angle.
LOL , figured out that design flaw years ago and pointed it out to the sales rep, when we had to open parking meters with broken abloys. Just hit them a few times with a hammer and punch and your in, And to all the nay sayers because there would be something behind the lock, unless it’s a thick peace of hardened steel tight against the lock you can still get in. All you need is enough room to pop the ring. Once you pop the ring you are in.
Can you try the punch attack on a newer abloy cam lock? Also when you try the punch attack have the latch on the lock and in the locked position. Have the latch in a groove or slot like it would be in a lock box. I think this would make the punch attack harder to do.
It's like that episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon spent hours trying to open the Chinese puzzle box... and then Penny came along and smashed it open. Cool!
The copper retaining ring on first lock that you couldn't find is on the ring-pack itself. It rode up and remained there near the front after you whacked it out.
Interesting, I know of an application that uses those locks and has enough space behind them, that'd let the core be punched out. Thing is with the Abloy cam lock properly mounted, does the tongue prevent or limit the core movement. It's also got me wondering if Bilocks have a similar weakness. Thing is, in the application they're used in, the door's the weakest link and the crims know it and attack that instead.
Well...the reason they ignored him for so long is probably because it costs money to retool their line and not to mention the thousands upon thousands of locks out there with these defects will need to be retrofitted or repkaced . It's a big deal ... there are countless thousands people out there with false sense of security whome depend on those locks. But none the less if i am a manufacturer of any product consumer input would always be my priority .
It seems like this is lock for office cabinet or locker. In a door the lock sould be cased and backplate would prevent this method. Probably the door would cave in before.
This method will only successfully open a an abloy cam lock. With mortise cylinders the cam will fall into the mortise body and most likely bind up the body. Rim cylinder may be able to be defeated this way on a steel door panic bar setup. But a key in knob or deadbolt cylinder will be prevented from falling through by the latch or bolt itself. The force would also most likely bend the latch or bolt preventing you from opening the door easily with a flat blade screwdriver.
The abloy classic core was originally used for padlocks where the core is inserted from the bottom and there's obviously no space upwards inside the padlock. Also, similar setup is used for the doors so this method only works for the variant that has nothing in the backside of the lock. Still, this is obviously a big vulnerability in these locks.
man... locksmithing and lock artistry is something i've always wanted to learn. :) awesome video. I have no idea what some of this stuff is or how it works. But im thoroughly entertained. :D thanks Bosnianbill
Very interesting. To clarify, this exploitation does NOT work on modern padlocks, correct. Specifically, the PL362 and PL342. I have yet to see those things get opened up.
Very interesting exploit bill thanks for showing! It should not work on a euro profile lock nor a padlock since the back of the lock is covered. A shame that they will not change their design to make it more secure. I think that this actually is a very important flaw since it concerns locks that are probably used on vending machines etc. and therefore easily being exploited by persons with bad motives. Best wishes, Adrian
No. Not used on vending machines. www.abloy.com/presets/product-slideshow/Abloy/Abloy.com%20OW2/Products/Cam%20and%20Cabinet%20Locks/Cam%20Locks/T-Handle%20Locks/CL290/CL290.jpg Thats a vending lock. Good luck trying to bash the guts out the back.
I suspect there is a matter of the noticeable entry method vs the sly. If you have to secure something you don't actually open too often, a picked lock could mean days or weeks before you become aware. If someone has to punch out a lock to get at the drugs/money/guns, you'll know about it immediately.
In the mortise lock I have the clearance behind the cylinder is tiny, not anywhere near enough room for this to work. I suspect this is why Abloy hasn't responded. This trick only works if there's 40mm or more open space behind the cylinder, which is no door I've ever seen.
you would be damaging the door or whereever it is, and making a lot of noise, but going for speed. You would then expose the mechanism to be able to bypass the lock and simply actuate the functional locking portion of the lock without the key.
bosnianbill Here's what Mr Locksmith has to say. An Abloy Deadbolt installed on a door cannot be opened with a punch. Also, clamped in a vice is different than installed on a door.
Will the tumbler have any room to go anywhere if it is in the lock verses outside? If it contains it; meaning there is no room at the end of the tumbler, it cannot be knocked out. I would have liked to have seen that demonstration instead or shown its inside dimensions relative to its installed position.
We use different locks in our frontdoors in Finland. 😊 My parents just literally cut the frontdoor with chainsaw because key was missing and they wanted to change that lock 😂🙈
Superb collaboration gents. Such an obvious defeat that it feels like the engineers just closes their eyes to release a product. Hope they pay attention to this information and apply changes. The new kittens are from your cats or new permanent members of the family? Either way congratulations.
I wonder if it in theory actually would be possible to do this with opening a door in mind when there is an actual deadbolt behind it, if there would be any space then for it to 'spill its guts'!
Well, when destructive entry is an option, its usually more productive to attack whatever the lock is attached to, as the lock is often the strongest point. This type of attack, should work though, in a deadbolt configuration; itll just require more force. In fact, due to the particular design of this lock, even a hardened retainer, should be exploitable by the same method, with increased force application. Physical security is a tough game, because it only delays entry; it cant prevent it. The challenge is to make it secure from attack, while being adequately convenient for practical use - that convenience is usually the vulnerability. Gun safes are an excellent example of this dynamic.
Kenny did a great job on this, and hopefully a full Abloy Fix will come down the pipe line to make these locks stronger. One item I will say is this only works on Abloy Protec non-heavy duty cam locks. It works on the mortise shown in the video as its an older disklock and that style was fixed in the 80s (the video just shows a very old lock). So it would not work on deadbolts or padlocks in Protec or anything even using that style mortise from the last 20+ years. It is also very unfortunate at the rate at which Kenny was able to get a response from AA and certain vendors, hopefully in the future the process will go far better.
Mitch, you are completely right. Unfortunately, the entire family of camlocks appears to be marketed as high security in the product brochure. The CL110 heavy duty camlock which is front-loading is only one of over a dozen Abloy Camlock models. It is highly misleading to have a whole page expounding on the high security capabilities of a single lock at the top of a brochure without mentioning which model it is referring to or that these features do not apply to the majority of models listed in the same document. 1984 - Abloy disk-detainer mortise cylinder introduced to market (vulnerable) 1987 - Improved mortise cylinder with steel clip *replaces* prior design pre-1997 - Ablboy Camlock family introduced to market (vulnerable) 2003 - CL110 heavy duty camlock *added to camlock family* As many other people have mentioned, it is very unlikely that punching the disk pack out the back of a mortise cylinder would get you anywhere because it would have nowhere to go. But perhaps even 2mm of movement would permit the disk pack to be jiggled until each disk sits slightly askew, allowing for the sidebar to move in enough to permit rotation. This is all moot, however, because it only applies to 3-years worth of locks produced in the mid 80's. Around 1987, the copper retaining ring was replaced by a much more durable steel spring rod clip. This improved design has been tested by the good folks at SecuritySnobs and found highly resistant to the pounding attack demonstrated in this video. Hopefully they can post a response video. While this attack doesn't seem very interesting for mortise cylinders, it is a completely different story for camlocks. The newest Abloy Camlock design came out at least 6 years after the vulnerable family went to market. And most impressively, it did not replace the existing vulnerable design, it was just added to the product lineup. Just to clarify, the cam (or piece of metal that holds the cabinet/door/whatever closed) is attached to the disk pack. The disk pack is ejected out the back of the housing in this attack. Failing secure is not likely.
Kenny M You are definitely right will almost certainly not fail secure. I would guess in most situations using a simple wire tool once punched should work on most systems. Without a doubt in the current state I would not consider any of the non-heavy duty cam locks decently force resistant.
I would certainly not call Sentry high security, although I would find it very curious that a representative (especially one of Abloy) would not call Protec high security. While no lock is likely to be perfect, I don't think anyone would argue the Protec cannot currently meet even the strictest definitions for a high security lock. Likely it was an ASSA Abloy representative instead not very familiar on the Abloy line.
It is really confusing to hear official people say that various Abloy locks are not marketed as high security when I can download and read marketing material from Abloy's site such as the "Industrial Locks Brochure" dated 12/2015 which describes Sentry as a "High security solution for industrial applications" and Protec 2 as "The ultimate locking solution offers highest security for professional end users." I will completely agree that Sentry is not high security. Seems like their reps and their marketing material editors need to have a serious sit-down.
Well I agree with others. But got me thinking. The casings are usually attached to the mechanism using a single set screw. Perhaps by threading the cowling a puller could be made that would break the set screw and allow the casing to be pulled out the front. Not a practical method, but I like impractical over mundane when thinking about things.
Great video and being new to lock sport forgive my ignorance. But that was in a vice with nothing behind it. If this was in a door or vending machine would it not be harder to do?
Knowing the vulnerability you could design your equipment to backup the core so even if you sheer the copper washer the core and locking lever can't come out.
Hey bill, do you know if this sort of bypass works on a protec cliq? I've been trying to pick it for ages but as you said no can do so wondering this this might work?
Please try this technique with the lock installed in the door with all the hardware. I'm curious with all the hardware. Is there a place for the lock to push out the back? Or does this technique just damage the lock and you still can't open the mechanism?
Bill I have a question. I see you punching out the core where the core's are not mounted or in any lock so to speak. My question is ,Is there room for the core to move enough to render the lock open. And thank you for your time and sharing with us. BTW please stop using a claw hammer hehe use a ball pen .
The problem with the mortise cylinder is if you try to drive the guts or the core or whatever you want to call it out the back there's nowhere for it to go so it won't work among other issues if it's a cabinet lock for instance the force required to hit it and compromise it would be enough for us to compromise the cabinet door in almost all cases
on the other hand why a criminal or a person would think compromising a lot like this would be valuable is beyond me this is for bench. The reason you don't get a reply from a blow is because it's not important in the world of physical security on the level that they are supplying
I thinks that will be very hard to do in a real door, because the door or its frame will move and absorb part of the applied force with the hammer. Also the noise, the real thing of picking is to not damage, and pass without anybody noticing the entry.
That will explain why you always get an Abloy where the back is protected or when using the mortise cylinder, make sure the tail piece is literally right against the tailpiece of another mortise cylinder or against the back of a dummy cylinder.
that reminds me strongly of Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem) in the movie "No Country for old Men". This guy simply popped out the whole cylinders by using a bolt gun with compressed gas (these things used in a slaughterhouse). Cool technique. And: the cylinder will not be destroyed ... ;-)
The piece of brass ( you call copper) isn't the only thing holding the gut in the cam lock. In the application I use, the cam bolted to the shaft goes through several pieces of 12 gauge steel. You may break the lock, but not defeat the installation
The "Forever Lock". Un-pickable lock with an amazing design! (Detailed Demo) this thing is pretty cool....could just cut it but i do quite like the hidden keyway design
Also most criminals don't pick locks, they kick the door in or they go in through a window (often one left open by the house owner). With most doors it's the structure of the door and the door jam that fails. The wood breaks and splits. So if the door withstands a couple of good kicks it's probably safe. and no, your neighbors don't see them because you neighbors are not looking.
BUT! How does that work when the lock is inside the door against steel lock frame that does not allow that inner to come out? Are u still able to open the door or remove the inner cylinder? As the whole lock is not just the parts u pick.
@@Tribsu These kinds can be installed on mail boxes and stuff, so technically yes. But some here have pointed out that it's deliberate since in those cases the container itself might be trickier to replace.
I have been using Abloy locks for years. I have a design in my head for a simple tool to pick many steerable disc locks but no idea where to go with it. Any ideas?
I think this attack would only work on a vending machine or the like, where there was nothing behind the cylinder. Otherwise the the bolt or other structure would prevent the cylinder from moving out of the housing, thus keeping the sidebar engaged and locked up, including padlocks.
I hope Abloy fixed this design flaw since the video was published. All they have to do is replace the brass ring with one made of spring steel, that shouldn't be that difficult.
They could add a u shaped disc to retain a hardened face plate. It would work for the mortise or their cam locks. Pounding out the mortise cylinders discs out the back would complicate your opening because the discs would most likely game your lock.
abloy does not stress about the old locks since they do always patent a new system after the old one is compromised. the one you are demoin is a older version :)
Interesting - but it was the violent method and still not resolving the challenge of picking the lock. Sometimes you really want to avoid the destructive entry.
How would this work in an actual door with say a vertical deadbolt behind it or inside a mortise lock? It doesn't seem like there would be room to push it out the back?
bosnianbill As long as it won't work on the deadbolts on MY house, I can breathe a sigh of relief! I was thinking the same thing as Joseph. If you could grab ahold of the core by sticking a big screw into the keyway, could you use a slide hammer to pull the core out the front? Like people sometimes do with car doors? Or is there more stopping it from coming out the front? I'll have to look at my doors when I get home... Could we replace the retaining ring with a steel snap ring ourselves or is it a unique shape/design?
Logic Bob The chance of success with a slide hammer would depend on how the lock is mounted and what it is mounted in. The mounting nut that is packed with those cam locks are usually pretty decent steel and I usually see them mounted in metal cabinets which seems like it would make a slide hammer removal difficult.
bosnianbill I'm guessing that this is the main reason whomever is making decisions at abloy isn't addressing the problem. Once you make the leap from nondestructive entry to destructive entry a lot of those items are easy to get into. It's still dumb not to address it though.
I think i have a tiny idea of how you could open an Abloy padlock without destructive attacks. Maybe if you create an automatic decoder that is really sensitive so it can feel the difference between real and false gates in the lock. When the decoder feels that it is in the real gate, it will move onto the next disc.
![[916] Abloy 341 “Enforcer” Padlock Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oxfUmcMzx08/mqdefault.jpg)
![[916] Abloy 341 “Enforcer” Padlock Picked and Gutted](/img/tr.png)
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
In Finland (home country of ABLOY company), where practically every lock is ABLOY the burglars never bother to try picking a lock. They rather try wrenching the door 'open' by breaking up the hinges. Or, if it's a house, they go through one of the windows.
That's probably the case everywhere, twisting a lock off/door open with a breaker bar or just breaking a window is faster and easier than picking a lock. The vast majority of burglars are not professionals and probably don't know how to pick locks anyway, even if that was an option.
or the hinge pins, most of these just take a few whacks with a hammer and nail and they pop out (although it wont work on older hinges where the pin is part of the hinge or on newer doors with security studs)
to anyone who sees this: security screw fit in most door hinges and cost $10 for 1-3 doors (1 if you want 6 studs on each door, 3 if you only use the needed 2). they are about as worth it as lock bypass-tool protection
@@Zestence That's mostly what locks are for, if there are signs of break in, the insurance will pay off, that is how they see you just did not forget to lock your door in which case insurance company can just bail out :)=
I've seen them twist the entire shield off with large pliers.
That is why the new shield comes with hardened screws which resulted in two things.
1. I break about 4 sets of cutting pliers a year
2. I got a tennis elbow for cutting all those hardened screws with said pliers :)=
@@Zestence oh yeah, I'd just rather smash a window that defenatly doesn't make anyone suspicious IN THE MIDDLE OF A NIGHT AT A NEIGHBORHOOD. Also in Finland most people live in apartments. So, how would YOU approach the problem? You can practically only break into apartments if you have the key. If you go to neighborhoods, there is sometimes a flaw. You see some finnish leave their doors unlocked, I'm not sure about night, but sometimes they just might forget. And if the door is not unlocked, the doors on those buildings are so sturdy, don't even try that, the windows are the best way, but you cant break them without making a sound. So if you are a burglar in Finland. Well jokes on you, you live in the most secure country in the world
The problem with hammering the lock in Finland is that it is straight against a lock housing in the door, so there is 2cm thick steel mechanism under that lock, and the doors have 2mm thick aluminium or steel plates in each side of the main locking mechanism.
Also most apartments use the bit newer models of the lock. I guess it's called abloy exec? Not sure though.
Exactly, you would need to hammer through the entire door. Not going to happen...
When living in the nordics.. The Abloy locks usually are a good reason to not even start picking any locks.. All goddamn locks are Abloy locks.
+rkan2
No ASSA? All they seem to offer is pin tumblers.
+Tanooki100 No ASSA abloy locks. The best abloy locks that are pretty much literally unpickable.
Kisuneko
I mean I looked up bare ASSA (without ABLOY) and they still seem to be alive as a separate brand, with their own products. Given it's another old lock manufacturer in Sweden, I would imagine a lot of suck locks (pin tumblers) would also be in use there. Are there?
It's curious there are very few videos of people picking even the classic half-moon ABLOY, given it's the go-to lock everywhere outside business and the equally classic tension & disk set tool is readily available. Feels cheating?
Abloy's main business model, btw is exploiting the patent law, so it can have monopoly on rekeying service on what ever its latest disk profile is. Businesses like this, as it is very hard to make copies of the new profile keys without permission.
They started this with the groove C-profile and have went three generations since.
+Tanooki100 In Finland perhaps 1-2 out of 100 outdoor locks was an Assa in the past, a bit more in the internal doors or cabinets.
The classic Abloy lock was picked by criminals i think from the 1960s on, by something called "vempele" = "gadget". I read in connection with a stolen Finnish identities case from the 1950s (by the Soviets as an international spy cover) that the KGB also had developed a similar device, which I remember was quoted as "the development having been quite a trouble to us".
keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/1808107/muistaako-kukaan-quotvempelettaquot
One question: when the lock is installed in a door, isnt there something in the "back" of the door so you cant just hit the insides out. Atleast the abloy locks in my finnish house have so this method wouldn't be possible.
I live in Finland, and I have never seen an Abloy lock that has the housing accessible like that. Most Abloy locks have a solid piece of metal around the keyhole that makes this way of breaking the lock impossible. And even a lock like that was mounted somewhere, wouldn't the copper ring be against something, making pushing it out or breaking it impossible. You would have more luck breaking the wall around the door.
+Juha Tiensuu Tuollaisia käytetään esim. metallisen kassalaatikon ohuessa seinämässä, ja tuon lukkosylinterin perässä suoraan voi olla metallinen kieli joka kääntyy noin 90 astetta. Ja kyllä nuo haittalevyt sinne kassan sekaan mahtuu lentämään :-D Toki talon ovissa on avainpesän takana niitä vahvoja prikkoja, ettei siinä pääse mihinkään sisäänpäin lentämään.
J Tiensuu He only used his clamp to represent solid steel around the lock. Attack only hit the keyhole, but it requires open space behind the lock, like in a mailbox or money box. It only works on models with the weak locking ring on the back.
@@johnfrancisdoe1563 like J Tiensuu said "abloy locks have a salid piece of metal around the keyhole" and this solid piece of metal is massive, it weights 0,25 kilos so you cannot penetrate it with some bolt. Finnish S.W.A.T uses a ram, to brake the doors, you cannot lock pick them. If the lock is on bomb shelter, then good luck with that..
isokessu He didn't go for the massive piece of steel. He hit inside the keyhole and made the mechanism fall out the back.
Right. That might be the case with a cash register (low security) or a locker (low security). But if its affixed to a door, the lock tumbler part is screwed onto the latch body, which supports the back and makes hitting out the core quite hard to accomplish. Alot of the doors in apartment buildings dont have doorhandles the key is used as a handle too.
This video had the information I was looking for. I had a 1960's stamp vending machine I picked up at an estate sale that came without a key. My lock had the initials K and D, but looked just like the Abloy locks I found online. Tried to pick the lock, no luck. Did not want to attempt to drill it out and damage the machine face. After learning about the weakness at the end of the lock, I felt this would be my best approach. If I was successful, I would have no problem replacing with a new lock and key, while still maintaining the same look as the original. After about 5 hard strikes, success. Thanks for creating this video and sharing.
Love you, Bosnian Bill! Thanks so much for so many years of service. Your work will never be forgotten. Best of luck in retirement. 🥰
Hi, finding your videos fascinating to watch. I spent 15 years (the entire 90s) working at the University of Kent in the UK as a carpenter. In the course of my work I also got to work on locks, Abloys especially were fun. I had no reservations about working on them because I knew they were so well made. This didn't stop at the core housing either. The rest of the lock was just as durable, almost armoured. So, though your demonstration above shows the lock failing, in reality, all you would do is crush the mechanism against the side of the main lock body making it inoperable at best. Liken it to a cop shooting a doorlock open. Nothing will move inside if it's mangled up. The bolt alone on some of those locks from the 80's were nearly 40mm tall and 10mm thick. That's a big cavity within the lock to be expected to slot back into. So by its destruction this lock will still keep you out. I know
Just out of curiosity do you ever pick chubb dead bolts and the like?
On an aside, after moving to France I had the privilege some years ago of adapting old keys to work old dead locks, some of which were several centuries old. At the time I worked on the restoration of the house of an antique dealer and mentioned I had experience with locks. After that I got to make keys to fit his locks. Did about fifteen in total and loved every minute of it. Finessing an old rusty key to fit a lock that hasn't been unlocked in decades, maybe longer, does give you a smug sense of satisfaction. Makes me smile seeing you use such delicate picks. A bent four inch nail would have been adequate for these old locks LOL! I took photos if you'd be interested in seeing them. Anyway, huge thanks for your vids. Yes, I have subscribed.
I have no professional involvement with locks and I don't really think this is about burglar proofing property it's kind of an Enthusiast Forum that I enjoy watching
you cant break it if the lock is installed correctly it doesnt have space to "move" the internals of the lock fully.
The lock bar still stays in well atleast 50% of it stays so it cant turn and as most Abloy locks are nowdays 100% stainless steel it is unbreakable only way to fully break correctly installed Abloy lock is by breaking the door
The retaining ring you are looking for... it's on the back of the lock still ^.^
Bill Thanks for posting weakness in this design. I do always take these weakness with a gran of salt..... If any of these locks were actually mounted in a real world application there would be a a extremely slim chance that this would work. I'm not disputing that the cylinder can be punched but the fact that there would not be enough room for it to fall out and allow access to the mechnisum to actually open the lock. And mortise lock would most likely be in a Adams rite store front style lock where I know there is little to no room for this to happen. In fact if you tied this it would most likely Jam the entire lock housing and then you would never get it open even from the inside! (with out drilling of coarse). Is there a problem YES, .............do I think that any random person who watches this video and tries this out is going to be successful with a mounted lock and actually break into something NO. Good video though!
Exactly what I said Wayne.
Except they would work in the real world at least with the cam lock and mortise shown in the video. There is plenty of room behind those after hammering out the guts. With the mortise, a small hook through the plug hole would easily engage the mortise mechanism.
You are literally the only person that I've seen walk through step by step how to disassemble one of these. Super helpful video I've been struggling with an abloy lock on a vending machine that I bought used with no key. Going to test it out now! Thanks!
Let me guess... It didn't work, you fucked up the lock and then it got stuck... making the job 10x more difficult to conplete.
(I would avoid this guy's "advice")
Other than the cam lock, every other iteration in the Abloy range does not have an open space behind the core to permit its removal in an assembled installation. Also, the brass and copper retainers are not used in later designs. Pointless to attack the core this way. In any event, if the core was dislodged from its housing the components would drop down into the lock assembly and most likely interfere with the latch or bolt assemblies. Much simpler to drill for manipulation points.
Reminds me of the captured bolt gun shooting out cylinders in the movie No Country for Old Men.
+David Harris I was thinking the same thing. I bet it wouldn't work with these locks though...
I bet it wouldn't work on any door like in the movie.
The Lock Picking Lawyer does a series of destructive attacks with a Ramset nailgun, he's gotten into everything he's tried it out on in one hit so far and hasn't even gotten close to using the thing with the highest capacity charge.
No, the movie was a movie. I remember whispering to my partner when we went to see it - 'no way'. But I was quiet and didn't disturb any other patrons.
Abloy probably appreciates this video. "I'ts amazing sir, this week alone we have had over 25,000 customers call in to purchase replacement core's because they're previous cores mysteriously seized up, bosnianbill put us back in the black!"
Isn't that kinda pointless? If you'll try to do that when it's on a door there's still the metal body of the actual locking mechanism agains't that core. I'm not an expert but doesn't that mean that all those guts are going to be stuck inside the core?
Wetski Once you break the retainer, you can pull the core out the other way towards the face.
ghosttwo2 I don't see how that's possible... The keyway is alot smaller than the actual core of the lock.
+Wetski If you pound hard enough, the whole door comes down!
Andrea Croci I think you have a point there.
@@ghosttwo2 No, you can’t. It’s protected with the outer shield. It still remain locked.
I'm going to point out that the only place that this will probably work very well is with the cam lock, as shown in the first part of the video. If you were to do this to a rim, mortise, or deadbolt cylinder, it would simply jam the mechanism behind it, causing a lockout.
In a cam-type application, you generally have room behind the cam, and even if you didn't, whatever the lock body is mounted to could shift forward, allowing the knocking out of the guts. with any other type of lock, either the lock mechanism, or the lock parts bolted to the other side of the door would block the cylinder from exiting.
Quite clever way of lock picking. You literally bang the lock in with the mallet waking up the whole neighbourhood, while it would be easier to break the window and climb in.
Abloy locks do not have 16 discs ... they have 11 key discs and the rest are thin spacers that make up the disc pack.
Abloy also no longer uses soft retainer rings to hold the disc packs in.
@Inareth at least the guys at assa aren't master and ignore these videos
When I saw how easy it is to breach those locks, it reminded me of that Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns and Mr. Smithers go into the master control room of the nuclear power plant, going through elaborate security passages a lá “Get Smart”, only to have a stray dog sniffing in the room and Mr. Burns kicking it out and slamming shut a flimsy ripped screen back door.
Thanks so much! I have an older abloy lock that the key is long gone but still locked. This just what I needed. Then I can open the case and replace the lock new again.
Very good video. You should be proud to inform people of flaws in lock design. Especially as people rely on them to protect them and their homes.
Thanks Bill. I'm quite new to this sport, so might be wrong, but there seems to be another obvious exploit: Surely, if you drill a hole through the front of the lock, in the right place, you can either extract the sidebar, or else drill right through it, and then rotate the barrel with a lever? That position seems to be the centre of the base of the 'L' on the mortise lock faceplate, and under the '--' clockwise from the 'A' on the first lock. That's also in line with the actuator spigot of both lock types.
I stumbled here, googling for inner workings of Sento. I just installed a brand new Sento core today, to replace a Classic that was greased with some vasile or something and just doesn't work in -25c temperatures we are having in Finland.
The new core was working perfectly after installation, but now after couple of hours, it behaves as if I was offering it the wrong key. Something wonky going on. It seems the sidebar wont drop. Now that I know the new sento works pretty much like a classic, I suspect some moisture was left inside while installing on a -20c day and the sidebar froze in place. I guess I'll try to heat it tomorrow. Maybe give it a smack while the key is in open position.
Aaanyway, interesting exploit. But it would not work in typical Abloy installations where the core is sandwinched between the frontplate and some kind of a back plate, screwed together. The innards just wouldn't have anywhere to go.
im meeting my girlfriends parents in 30 minutes, what the fuck am i doing
hope it went well, dude.
How did it go?
Went good thanks :D
Knight__ Are you guys still together?
diynevala only just, hahahha
Wow that is very crazy! It is amazing how such a little thing can ruin such a great thing!
Thanks for all the videos over the years.
Would only be an issue if there's fresh air behind the lock, that'd rarely be the case in the real world.
Will it not work with stale air?
Me and a friend popped a couple of similar locks, when we were kids. We used a large nail and a hammer. It left more room for fingers. ;)
Loved the vid, just the ''GoPro slowmotion-recordings'' didn't add any value to it all :p
yes, it was not so slow :)
Yeah lol, just played back at less frames haha
Assa has left the chat
I work at Walmart, and they have started using Abloy padlocks on the trailers that bring in supplies to the stores. It took 15 minutes for the driver just to get the trailer unlocked using the key. Mainly because you have to put the key in at an angle.
LOL , figured out that design flaw years ago and pointed it out to the sales rep, when we had to open parking meters with broken abloys. Just hit them a few times with a hammer and punch and your in,
And to all the nay sayers because there would be something behind the lock, unless it’s a thick peace of hardened steel tight against the lock you can still get in. All you need is enough room to pop the ring. Once you pop the ring you are in.
Good luck trying that with Abloy Protec 2.
AMAZING! It's a GREAT joy for me to see an Abloy Defeated!
Can you try the punch attack on a newer abloy cam lock? Also when you try the punch attack have the latch on the lock and in the locked position. Have the latch in a groove or slot like it would be in a lock box. I think this would make the punch attack harder to do.
It's like that episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon spent hours trying to open the Chinese puzzle box... and then Penny came along and smashed it open. Cool!
The copper retaining ring on first lock that you couldn't find is on the ring-pack itself. It rode up and remained there near the front after you whacked it out.
the mortis lock has one other protection.the hardware is behind it preventing it from being knocked out; is that correct?
Interesting, I know of an application that uses those locks and has enough space behind them, that'd let the core be punched out. Thing is with the Abloy cam lock properly mounted, does the tongue prevent or limit the core movement. It's also got me wondering if Bilocks have a similar weakness.
Thing is, in the application they're used in, the door's the weakest link and the crims know it and attack that instead.
Well...the reason they ignored him for so long is probably because it costs money to retool their line and not to mention the thousands upon thousands of locks out there with these defects will need to be retrofitted or repkaced . It's a big deal ... there are countless thousands people out there with false sense of security whome depend on those locks. But none the less if i am a manufacturer of any product consumer input would always be my priority .
It seems like this is lock for office cabinet or locker. In a door the lock sould be cased and backplate would prevent this method. Probably the door would cave in before.
I think it could be said that any sense of security is a false one.
This method will only successfully open a an abloy cam lock. With mortise cylinders the cam will fall into the mortise body and most likely bind up the body. Rim cylinder may be able to be defeated this way on a steel door panic bar setup. But a key in knob or deadbolt cylinder will be prevented from falling through by the latch or bolt itself. The force would also most likely bend the latch or bolt preventing you from opening the door easily with a flat blade screwdriver.
your work is kind of addictive to watch
I just watched LPL do this exact thing to the exact same lock with the Ramset gun lmao 🤣👍
The abloy classic core was originally used for padlocks where the core is inserted from the bottom and there's obviously no space upwards inside the padlock. Also, similar setup is used for the doors so this method only works for the variant that has nothing in the backside of the lock. Still, this is obviously a big vulnerability in these locks.
man... locksmithing and lock artistry is something i've always wanted to learn. :) awesome video. I have no idea what some of this stuff is or how it works. But im thoroughly entertained. :D thanks Bosnianbill
Very interesting. To clarify, this exploitation does NOT work on modern padlocks, correct. Specifically, the PL362 and PL342. I have yet to see those things get opened up.
Good comment
Maybe you can weld on a piece on the back to prevent the innards from extruding... ? Yeah, Abloy needs to fix this. Thanks for the vid.
Nicely done Mr.Bill
Looks like the air tank contraption from "no country for old men" would work great.
Very interesting exploit bill thanks for showing! It should not work on a euro profile lock nor a padlock since the back of the lock is covered. A shame that they will not change their design to make it more secure. I think that this actually is a very important flaw since it concerns locks that are probably used on vending machines etc. and therefore easily being exploited by persons with bad motives. Best wishes, Adrian
No. Not used on vending machines.
www.abloy.com/presets/product-slideshow/Abloy/Abloy.com%20OW2/Products/Cam%20and%20Cabinet%20Locks/Cam%20Locks/T-Handle%20Locks/CL290/CL290.jpg
Thats a vending lock. Good luck trying to bash the guts out the back.
Won't the mortice cilinder or tumbturn on the other side of the lock prevent the core from coming out completely ?
I suspect there is a matter of the noticeable entry method vs the sly. If you have to secure something you don't actually open too often, a picked lock could mean days or weeks before you become aware. If someone has to punch out a lock to get at the drugs/money/guns, you'll know about it immediately.
Something like a gear puller is silent and it can do the same thing (actually it can generate more force) as a punch.
D8W2P4 still tamper evident.
where will guts fall when this is in the door?)
In the mortise lock I have the clearance behind the cylinder is tiny, not anywhere near enough room for this to work. I suspect this is why Abloy hasn't responded. This trick only works if there's 40mm or more open space behind the cylinder, which is no door I've ever seen.
you would be damaging the door or whereever it is, and making a lot of noise, but going for speed. You would then expose the mechanism to be able to bypass the lock and simply actuate the functional locking portion of the lock without the key.
+Christopher Stone However there is often plenty of room when used as a cabinet or box lock.
bosnianbill
Here's what Mr Locksmith has to say.
An Abloy Deadbolt installed on a door cannot be opened with a punch. Also, clamped in a vice is different than installed on a door.
Scientific studies show that a bolt longer than a 1/2 inch can be used. Nice vid.
Will the tumbler have any room to go anywhere if it is in the lock verses outside? If it contains it; meaning there is no room at the end of the tumbler, it cannot be knocked out. I would have liked to have seen that demonstration instead or shown its inside dimensions relative to its installed position.
We use different locks in our frontdoors in Finland. 😊
My parents just literally cut the frontdoor with chainsaw because key was missing and they wanted to change that lock 😂🙈
Superb collaboration gents. Such an obvious defeat that it feels like the engineers just closes their eyes to release a product. Hope they pay attention to this information and apply changes. The new kittens are from your cats or new permanent members of the family? Either way congratulations.
I wonder if it in theory actually would be possible to do this with opening a door in mind when there is an actual deadbolt behind it, if there would be any space then for it to 'spill its guts'!
Well, when destructive entry is an option, its usually more productive to attack whatever the lock is attached to, as the lock is often the strongest point. This type of attack, should work though, in a deadbolt configuration; itll just require more force. In fact, due to the particular design of this lock, even a hardened retainer, should be exploitable by the same method, with increased force application. Physical security is a tough game, because it only delays entry; it cant prevent it. The challenge is to make it secure from attack, while being adequately convenient for practical use - that convenience is usually the vulnerability. Gun safes are an excellent example of this dynamic.
its 11/22/2020 did they address this issue? I just picked up a ABLOY 340 padlock off amazon.
Kenny did a great job on this, and hopefully a full Abloy Fix will come down the pipe line to make these locks stronger. One item I will say is this only works on Abloy Protec non-heavy duty cam locks. It works on the mortise shown in the video as its an older disklock and that style was fixed in the 80s (the video just shows a very old lock). So it would not work on deadbolts or padlocks in Protec or anything even using that style mortise from the last 20+ years. It is also very unfortunate at the rate at which Kenny was able to get a response from AA and certain vendors, hopefully in the future the process will go far better.
Mitch, you are completely right. Unfortunately, the entire family of camlocks appears to be marketed as high security in the product brochure. The CL110 heavy duty camlock which is front-loading is only one of over a dozen Abloy Camlock models. It is highly misleading to have a whole page expounding on the high security capabilities of a single lock at the top of a brochure without mentioning which model it is referring to or that these features do not apply to the majority of models listed in the same document.
1984 - Abloy disk-detainer mortise cylinder introduced to market (vulnerable)
1987 - Improved mortise cylinder with steel clip *replaces* prior design
pre-1997 - Ablboy Camlock family introduced to market (vulnerable)
2003 - CL110 heavy duty camlock *added to camlock family*
As many other people have mentioned, it is very unlikely that punching the disk pack out the back of a mortise cylinder would get you anywhere because it would have nowhere to go. But perhaps even 2mm of movement would permit the disk pack to be jiggled until each disk sits slightly askew, allowing for the sidebar to move in enough to permit rotation. This is all moot, however, because it only applies to 3-years worth of locks produced in the mid 80's. Around 1987, the copper retaining ring was replaced by a much more durable steel spring rod clip. This improved design has been tested by the good folks at SecuritySnobs and found highly resistant to the pounding attack demonstrated in this video. Hopefully they can post a response video.
While this attack doesn't seem very interesting for mortise cylinders, it is a completely different story for camlocks. The newest Abloy Camlock design came out at least 6 years after the vulnerable family went to market. And most impressively, it did not replace the existing vulnerable design, it was just added to the product lineup. Just to clarify, the cam (or piece of metal that holds the cabinet/door/whatever closed) is attached to the disk pack. The disk pack is ejected out the back of the housing in this attack. Failing secure is not likely.
Kenny M You are definitely right will almost certainly not fail secure. I would guess in most situations using a simple wire tool once punched should work on most systems. Without a doubt in the current state I would not consider any of the non-heavy duty cam locks decently force resistant.
I would certainly not call Sentry high security, although I would find it very curious that a representative (especially one of Abloy) would not call Protec high security. While no lock is likely to be perfect, I don't think anyone would argue the Protec cannot currently meet even the strictest definitions for a high security lock. Likely it was an ASSA Abloy representative instead not very familiar on the Abloy line.
It is really confusing to hear official people say that various Abloy locks are not marketed as high security when I can download and read marketing material from Abloy's site such as the "Industrial Locks Brochure" dated 12/2015 which describes Sentry as a "High security solution for industrial applications" and Protec 2 as "The ultimate locking solution offers highest security for professional end users." I will completely agree that Sentry is not high security. Seems like their reps and their marketing material editors need to have a serious sit-down.
But can you do this while it's on a door? With the back?
no
Would that work on an abloy padlock where there is no where for the inside to be knocked out to?
I love your show SO MUCH! You're awesome! Much respect for you!! :) Thanks for the great episodes!
Hey Bill Fantastic Video WoW that's so interesting how the copper ring is all that holds it in I bet they will soon be changing that. HA HA. N.
I think that bashing the lock with a hammer isn't all that much of a weakness.
Well I agree with others. But got me thinking. The casings are usually attached to the mechanism using a single set screw. Perhaps by threading the cowling a puller could be made that would break the set screw and allow the casing to be pulled out the front. Not a practical method, but I like impractical over mundane when thinking about things.
Great video and being new to lock sport forgive my ignorance. But that was in a vice with nothing behind it. If this was in a door or vending machine would it not be harder to do?
hi, is this an issue with modern abloy padlocks?
Wow... Watching an alloy be defeated is beyond satisfying, even if it is destructively.
Ta Baron You might mean Abloy.
Knowing the vulnerability you could design your equipment to backup the core so even if you sheer the copper washer the core and locking lever can't come out.
It's a bit different case when you have it installed in a door. You can't ram it through the lock body inside the door.
Hey bill, do you know if this sort of bypass works on a protec cliq? I've been trying to pick it for ages but as you said no can do so wondering this this might work?
Please try this technique with the lock installed in the door with all the hardware. I'm curious with all the hardware. Is there a place for the lock to push out the back? Or does this technique just damage the lock and you still can't open the mechanism?
Bill I have a question. I see you punching out the core where the core's are not mounted or in any lock so to speak. My question is ,Is there room for the core to move enough to render the lock open. And thank you for your time and sharing with us.
BTW please stop using a claw hammer hehe use a ball pen .
The problem with the mortise cylinder is if you try to drive the guts or the core or whatever you want to call it out the back there's nowhere for it to go so it won't work
among other issues if it's a cabinet lock for instance the force required to hit it and compromise it would be enough for us to compromise the cabinet door in almost all cases
on the other hand why a criminal or a person would think compromising a lot like this would be valuable is beyond me this is for bench. The reason you don't get a reply from a blow is because it's not important in the world of physical security on the level that they are supplying
I thinks that will be very hard to do in a real door, because the door or its frame will move and absorb part of the applied force with the hammer. Also the noise, the real thing of picking is to not damage, and pass without anybody noticing the entry.
That will explain why you always get an Abloy where the back is protected or when using the mortise cylinder, make sure the tail piece is literally right against the tailpiece of another mortise cylinder or against the back of a dummy cylinder.
that reminds me strongly of Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem) in the movie "No Country for old Men". This guy simply popped out the whole cylinders by using a bolt gun with compressed gas (these things used in a slaughterhouse). Cool technique. And: the cylinder will not be destroyed ... ;-)
The piece of brass ( you call copper) isn't the only thing holding the gut in the cam lock. In the application I use, the cam bolted to the shaft goes through several pieces of 12 gauge steel. You may break the lock, but not defeat the installation
The "Forever Lock". Un-pickable lock with an amazing design! (Detailed Demo)
this thing is pretty cool....could just cut it but i do quite like the hidden keyway design
that go pro doesen't seem to be that effective.But awesome video as always.Just love the "special editions"
Also most criminals don't pick locks, they kick the door in or they go in through a window (often one left open by the house owner). With most doors it's the structure of the door and the door jam that fails. The wood breaks and splits. So if the door withstands a couple of good kicks it's probably safe. and no, your neighbors don't see them because you neighbors are not looking.
btw do they even sell the sento series in the states? or did they directly jump to protec2?
huxleypig69 thanks for the answer :)
BUT! How does that work when the lock is inside the door against steel lock frame that does not allow that inner to come out? Are u still able to open the door or remove the inner cylinder? As the whole lock is not just the parts u pick.
In the description there's a disclaimer that it doesn't work on locks installed correctly on doors.
@@XGD5layer So is it then even a design defect?
@@Tribsu These kinds can be installed on mail boxes and stuff, so technically yes. But some here have pointed out that it's deliberate since in those cases the container itself might be trickier to replace.
I have been using Abloy locks for years. I have a design in my head for a simple tool to pick many steerable disc locks but no idea where to go with it. Any ideas?
thanks Bill, thats was geat shortcut.
Yes that method will work on a Camlock, But the threaded Cylinder will be foiled by the Traverse bar on something like an Adams-Rite deadlock.
Pure awesomness.
Ok a question for you Bill, what about an Aboly padlock (342 for example), would this work on it too?
bosnianbill what if you punched it in to break the copper retainer and then screwed a screw down the key way and pulled it out.
G o o g l e FOO
you might be able to do it with a slide hammer. but that works for alot of locks.
I think this attack would only work on a vending machine or the like, where there was nothing behind the cylinder. Otherwise the the bolt or other structure would prevent the cylinder from moving out of the housing, thus keeping the sidebar engaged and locked up, including padlocks.
so how it will help if it's actually mounted? it need either to fall off or to turn, im not sure if any of those things will happen.
I hope Abloy fixed this design flaw since the video was published. All they have to do is replace the brass ring with one made of spring steel, that shouldn't be that difficult.
They could add a u shaped disc to retain a hardened face plate. It would work for the mortise or their cam locks. Pounding out the mortise cylinders discs out the back would complicate your opening because the discs would most likely game your lock.
Hi Bill
When you say "alternate products", do you know what products they mean?
abloy does not stress about the old locks since they do always patent a new system after the old one is compromised. the one you are demoin is a older version :)
Interesting - but it was the violent method and still not resolving the challenge of picking the lock. Sometimes you really want to avoid the destructive entry.
How would this work in an actual door with say a vertical deadbolt behind it or inside a mortise lock? It doesn't seem like there would be room to push it out the back?
bosnianbill As long as it won't work on the deadbolts on MY house, I can breathe a sigh of relief! I was thinking the same thing as Joseph. If you could grab ahold of the core by sticking a big screw into the keyway, could you use a slide hammer to pull the core out the front? Like people sometimes do with car doors? Or is there more stopping it from coming out the front? I'll have to look at my doors when I get home... Could we replace the retaining ring with a steel snap ring ourselves or is it a unique shape/design?
Logic Bob The chance of success with a slide hammer would depend on how the lock is mounted and what it is mounted in. The mounting nut that is packed with those cam locks are usually pretty decent steel and I usually see them mounted in metal cabinets which seems like it would make a slide hammer removal difficult.
bosnianbill I'm guessing that this is the main reason whomever is making decisions at abloy isn't addressing the problem. Once you make the leap from nondestructive entry to destructive entry a lot of those items are easy to get into. It's still dumb not to address it though.
just completed training on Abloyt Protec 2, apparantly defeats all this stuff. sooooooooo any videos on that?
I think i have a tiny idea of how you could open an Abloy padlock without destructive attacks. Maybe if you create an automatic decoder that is really sensitive so it can feel the difference between real and false gates in the lock. When the decoder feels that it is in the real gate, it will move onto the next disc.