Loyalist Emperor's Children will be one of the Legions i work on for sure soon. Can't wait to work on Tarvitz and some Palantines. What excites you most about the Third Ash?
I plan on going Loyalist Emperor's Children with a Salamanders Allied Detachment. The two Legions that had the most love for mortal humans getting slaughtered together.
-'some' additions/corrections that ended up being a pretty big post: -Paragon of Exellence WT: unit can use Hold the Line Reaction when someone charges it, it requires a Morale Test which triggers +1WS buff, you basically recieve +1WS when you need it most. Your opponent thought he charged WS4 unit with his WS4 squad, now he charges WS5+Shrikers unit, his charge is disordered and his unit can only hit yours on 6+. It still works during your entire next turn, that unit can continue to fight or move and charge into someone else with WS+1. It's once per game TURN. Two reactions in movement phase will help with baiting your opponent into charges. Hold the line reaction turns off Palatines Counter-Attack though. - Augments are Traitors only now. - 3rd Company elite RoW (aside from other things like free HS slots or/and a lot of Kakophoni) now allows your entire units to take new Sonic Lance augment . it's a Template that both wounds T4 and also ap2 on 6+ to wound (S2 Breaching 6+) and Pinning. Any squad now have a pretty decent change to force Pinning test before charging,(which will prevent reactions) Overwatch(with WoD d3 hits) with Pinning can outright cancel enemy charges. well placed 10-20 templates can seriously wound squads with and without Invules and in addition you'll be the one striking first after that. Apothecaries can take Sonic Shikers and join your squads. - You said correctly about Phoenix Weapons at first, they are both ap2 and ID on 6+ to wound. -In Eidolons profile it's the 'Rival' unit should destroy(or force to fall back) any your unit in order for Eidolon and his squad to get +1 to wound against that 'Rival' unit. It won't benefit Eidolon himself that much though since he strikes with S8 which will wound even T6 units on 2+ . Eidolon become while a bit slower (no longer +1i in challenges) but much much deadlier: His TH is Now Brutal(2) which means each of his hits that wound on 2+ will result in 2 wounds that should be be saved separately, and each of these wounds are S8 (i.e they wil ID T4 characters). There are only so much Invules you can roll to stay alive - chances are basically doubled for Eidolon to oneshot his opponent in one assault phase. And he can also reroll one of his hits with MC from his TH. His new WT greatly increases his chances to hit WS7 Warlords and his WS6+Shrikers means WS5 models only hit him on sixes. (i.e he willl probably survive and will strike again with i1 TH on a second turn of assault) Tarvitz MIA on Isstvan III, it was Garro who became a Knight Errant. Tarvitz HH2 incarnation is way better than his HH1 one. He is basically i8(on a charge in challenges) Praetor with a big Fearless bubble. And his Nemesis bolter can reroll its shot (it's Rending 5+, Sniper, Pinning shot though) due to MC.(unlikely with his BS5)(he also has a chance to force Pinning on a charging enemy unit with Ovewatch and stop the charge - fluffy). His anti EC buffs are strong, basically he makes Shrikers useless in 12'+ around him since he provides Fearless, with Biomancy he has high chances to oneshot Eidolon, EC Praetors and probably Lucius since he strikes at i8 with 5A S7+1 Rending 4+ attacks and can reroll one attack with MC, while also having Prefered Enemy.(how often do we see EC vs EC battles though - usually never) -Lucius has 2 mods: WS8+Shrikers to tank WS7 melee monsters and hope to ID(6+) them wih his Rending 3+ 7A attacks (while rerolling 1 to hit/to wound) +MC, OR WS7+i8 with Blade ofLaer 5a with ap2 Fleshbane when you for sure need to wound someone. If someone don't want to duel Lucius you can always cut him (and other characters) down with his Precisions Strikes 3+. -Thanks for making these videos.
Thanx for the thorough explaination, but isn't the Power rapier Rending instead of breaching, giving you a mix of AP3 wound, Ap2 wound and AP3 with instant death?
@@aymericsimon6261 For Phoenix weapons Rending and Breaching provide ap2 on 'to wound' rolls of 6+ . Murderous Strike provides Instand Death on 'to wound' roll of 6+ too. In both cases(breaching/rending) when you roll 6 on your 'to wound' roll you strike with Instant Death and ap2 instead of just ap3. (i.e. your ap3 attacks cant be with Instand Death because you have to roll 6+ for that and in that cast it's ap2 anyway). The only difference is that Breaching only provides ap2 on sixes, while Rending will also wound independently of your S no matter what (i.e. even S2 can wound T10 model if your 'to wound' roll is 6), Rending also adds D3 to S for penetration rolls of 6+ against Vehicles .
wow those things are all awesome. I had thought of sonic shriekers on apothecaries to spread them through the force and only pay for one unit's worth, but the pinning templates sound great for the units themselves! paragon of excellence + hold the line is awesome, eidolon is awesome, lucius is awesome, mwuahhaha
Nice to finally have some Emperor's Children love from GW. Almost tempted to grab a copy just so I can have the heraldry/vehicle pages for painting. Sadly I can't find a picture of them online.
These new rules seem very nice. I've been painting up my Betrayal at Calth as Emperor's Children in preparation for 2.0 and it seems like they'll be really fun to play! Thanks for the great overview! Can't wait to get my hands on the Age of Darkness box and the Liber Hereticus!
Same with Sons of Horus reavers. I noticed that Destroyer squads with jump packs are separate unit entry to the regular destroyers. Fingers crossed for a supplement with jump options for legion special units.
The Phoenix Terminators are all characters, so they can issue challenges and don't need Chosen Warriors. I believe they are the only Terminators that are all characters.
I think I'd have to start an emperors children army if they released a Fabius Bile mini. He's one of my favorite characters for any legion, and it would be really cool to field him in that rite of war with the kakophoni and his other experiments.
Great video, got a lot of love for the Emperor’s Children and their rules look fitting! Lorewise, have I missed something? I thought Tarvitz died on Istvaan 3!
Old hammer of math was he just out damaged manus over like 10 rounds, but they did swap weapons and with that it was insanely fast cause the hammer Fulgrim made makes him win in 3 rounds as he would end up with 12 attacks cause it had Blind
Wouldn't the sublime swordsman trait imply that things like the Emperor's Children charge bonus and Duellest Edge wouldn't affect the bonus amount of attacks that Fulgrim has on challenges?
Fulgrim may have been under daemonic influence, but he chose Manus' fate and then suffered for it, allowing the warp possession to take him over fully. But as we find out in the Primarchs novellas, Fulgrim was biding his time and learning from the daemon, going so far as to kick it out (and imprison it in the painting) on his own while no one was watching. Which makes sense with his later desire to ascend to daemon(prince)hood, something he wouldn't really have needed if he was already a daemon. And he did have massive power after Isstvaan V when the daemon-in-Fulgrim even stopped a Titan single-handedly with warp shenanigans.
Came down to the comments to say this. Its the exact moment after Killing Manus that he realized what he did and how far things had gone and he let his guard down, this is when the demon took control. That part is as canon as Warhammer gets. You may though find some disagreement or theories about the how long and if Fulgrim ditched the demon that possessed him. But officially-ish (according to what Fulgrim says in the books) Fulgrim bested the demon controlling him and willingly joined up with Slaanesh.
I still Personally believe that Fulgrim is still stuck in the painting and that the daemon is still in charge of him there are lots of hints to that in Fabius bile book along with other HH books so I think the left it as a choice for later in line if they decide to bring clonegrim into the story again
@@maliceharding4668 Warhammer is big universe so there is allot of room for theories. There is a good sized chunk of people who think Fulgrim is still possessed and if they think that is the most intriguing outcome then that is cool. Personally I am in the Fulgrim is out and turned camp. I do think the intended canon of Black Library would that Fulgrim is out. A short story by ADB called Aurelian has Logar look at the mirror and see the demon. The HH book Angel Exterminatus where Fulgrim ascends to demon lord status doesnt really work if he is still possessed. I think that Clonegrim from the Bile book is a kind of compromise for those who still want a loyal Fulgrim.
@@aizo111 my issue with his rise to daemon primarch is he had to use petroabo life force to rise but none of the other primarch need someone else's life force to turn hitting that it was still the daemon
@@maliceharding4668 Its a good theory, but to put up an opposing view on it. Fulgrim didn't become a Demon primarch by using Perturabo's life force, that was a plan to make himself pretty much a god, but it failed. Perty got his life force back and then broke Fulgrim's body. He was already changing into something more, but when his physical form was broken it kind of birthed him into a creature of the imaterium. As far as I know there isn't a whole ton of detail of each Primarches acension to demon lord status. Horus and Curze never becomes a demon lords, Magnus is physically shattered by Russ, and then warp stuff warp stuff.. I think he is a demon lord by the end and um.. The rest seem to happen post heresy. I think.
Hey Ash, love your vids. Been lurking your content for years, IMO by far the channel for the hobby. I've started playing wargames since battle from black reach when I was 13 and you are clearly as OG as it gets, the best kind of grognard veteran. Could you clarify if murderous strike/rending/breaching triggers on to hit or to wound? From what I've seen from leaks they all proc on the wound but it might have changed since then. Gonna pick up EC for this edition and that would help me figure out what weapon to give to who. Anyhow, keep the great content coming, you're the best! Hope to play you one day!
Ack, no Sunkillers? Lascannon heavies are going to be _lethal_ in this edition. Glad to see the rest of my pretty boys are just as preening in this edition though.
I believe they will be updating all of those pdf supplements. They were originally written to come out after this edition, but were edited for first when this was delayed.
it would've been smart for me to get this book instead of the loyalist one while I'm doing EC... I'm doing preheresy though so its a win for Saul tarvitz and eidolon together.
Wait, so you are saying his sudden strike and duelist edge which raises his initiative effects his sublime swordsman special rule? So modified initiative values are taken into account? I was reading "characteristic" as unmodified initiative. So does that mean if an opponent has like a power fist and drops their initiative to 1 and he is in a challenge and on the charge that he gets 9 extra attacks?
I don't think that's right. Unwieldy makes you strike at Initiative step 10, it doesn't make you Initiative 1. EC rule makes you strike at an Initiative step higher than normal, it doesn't add one to Initiative.
Tarvitz lived through Lucius' betrayal, you may be thinking of Solomon. Tarvitz is implied to die during the final bombardment of istvaan III, I say implied because you can never trust GW to keep a character dead.
The new interpretation of Flawless Execution means that Unwieldy weapons hit at Initiative 2 on the Charge! That's insane. Makes getting the charge of even more important for certain units. Kakaphoni seemed to have been nerfed considerably. Pinning is a weaker rule than the old Bioshock, which I thought was lore appropriate. It was counterbalanced by Get's Hot. Not it still Get's Hot, but doesn't have the Bioshock rule. Will see how they play in HH2.0.
@@Blackhound61 no they had a rule called bioshock. Unless immune to fear, you took a leadership test at ld - number of casualties. If you failed, you lost an additional D6 models. It was a bit OP, but fluffy. People don't realise how much of drawback Gets Hot is on multi shot weapons, so it was a counterbalance like it was for Plasma
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 85 | คู่เอก "ยอดเหล็กเพชร vs ผึ้งหลวง"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qq_19bnnxEo/mqdefault.jpg)
Loyalist Emperor's Children will be one of the Legions i work on for sure soon. Can't wait to work on Tarvitz and some Palantines. What excites you most about the Third Ash?
I plan on going Loyalist Emperor's Children with a Salamanders Allied Detachment. The two Legions that had the most love for mortal humans getting slaughtered together.
-'some' additions/corrections that ended up being a pretty big post:
-Paragon of Exellence WT: unit can use Hold the Line Reaction when someone charges it, it requires a Morale Test which triggers +1WS buff, you basically recieve +1WS when you need it most. Your opponent thought he charged WS4 unit with his WS4 squad, now he charges WS5+Shrikers unit, his charge is disordered and his unit can only hit yours on 6+. It still works during your entire next turn, that unit can continue to fight or move and charge into someone else with WS+1. It's once per game TURN. Two reactions in movement phase will help with baiting your opponent into charges. Hold the line reaction turns off Palatines Counter-Attack though.
- Augments are Traitors only now.
- 3rd Company elite RoW (aside from other things like free HS slots or/and a lot of Kakophoni) now allows your entire units to take new Sonic Lance augment . it's a Template that both wounds T4 and also ap2 on 6+ to wound (S2 Breaching 6+) and Pinning. Any squad now have a pretty decent change to force Pinning test before charging,(which will prevent reactions) Overwatch(with WoD d3 hits) with Pinning can outright cancel enemy charges. well placed 10-20 templates can seriously wound squads with and without Invules and in addition you'll be the one striking first after that. Apothecaries can take Sonic Shikers and join your squads.
- You said correctly about Phoenix Weapons at first, they are both ap2 and ID on 6+ to wound.
-In Eidolons profile it's the 'Rival' unit should destroy(or force to fall back) any your unit in order for Eidolon and his squad to get +1 to wound against that 'Rival' unit. It won't benefit Eidolon himself that much though since he strikes with S8 which will wound even T6 units on 2+ . Eidolon become while a bit slower (no longer +1i in challenges) but much much deadlier: His TH is Now Brutal(2) which means each of his hits that wound on 2+ will result in 2 wounds that should be be saved separately, and each of these wounds are S8 (i.e they wil ID T4 characters). There are only so much Invules you can roll to stay alive - chances are basically doubled for Eidolon to oneshot his opponent in one assault phase. And he can also reroll one of his hits with MC from his TH. His new WT greatly increases his chances to hit WS7 Warlords and his WS6+Shrikers means WS5 models only hit him on sixes. (i.e he willl probably survive and will strike again with i1 TH on a second turn of assault)
Tarvitz MIA on Isstvan III, it was Garro who became a Knight Errant. Tarvitz HH2 incarnation is way better than his HH1 one. He is basically i8(on a charge in challenges) Praetor with a big Fearless bubble. And his Nemesis bolter can reroll its shot (it's Rending 5+, Sniper, Pinning shot though) due to MC.(unlikely with his BS5)(he also has a chance to force Pinning on a charging enemy unit with Ovewatch and stop the charge - fluffy). His anti EC buffs are strong, basically he makes Shrikers useless in 12'+ around him since he provides Fearless, with Biomancy he has high chances to oneshot Eidolon, EC Praetors and probably Lucius since he strikes at i8 with 5A S7+1 Rending 4+ attacks and can reroll one attack with MC, while also having Prefered Enemy.(how often do we see EC vs EC battles though - usually never)
-Lucius has 2 mods: WS8+Shrikers to tank WS7 melee monsters and hope to ID(6+) them wih his Rending 3+ 7A attacks (while rerolling 1 to hit/to wound) +MC, OR WS7+i8 with Blade ofLaer 5a with ap2 Fleshbane when you for sure need to wound someone. If someone don't want to duel Lucius you can always cut him (and other characters) down with his Precisions Strikes 3+.
-Thanks for making these videos.
Thanx for the thorough explaination, but isn't the Power rapier Rending instead of breaching, giving you a mix of AP3 wound, Ap2 wound and AP3 with instant death?
@@aymericsimon6261 For Phoenix weapons Rending and Breaching provide ap2 on 'to wound' rolls of 6+ . Murderous Strike provides Instand Death on 'to wound' roll of 6+ too. In both cases(breaching/rending) when you roll 6 on your 'to wound' roll you strike with Instant Death and ap2 instead of just ap3. (i.e. your ap3 attacks cant be with Instand Death because you have to roll 6+ for that and in that cast it's ap2 anyway). The only difference is that Breaching only provides ap2 on sixes, while Rending will also wound independently of your S no matter what (i.e. even S2 can wound T10 model if your 'to wound' roll is 6), Rending also adds D3 to S for penetration rolls of 6+ against Vehicles .
wow those things are all awesome. I had thought of sonic shriekers on apothecaries to spread them through the force and only pay for one unit's worth, but the pinning templates sound great for the units themselves! paragon of excellence + hold the line is awesome, eidolon is awesome, lucius is awesome, mwuahhaha
Nice to finally have some Emperor's Children love from GW. Almost tempted to grab a copy just so I can have the heraldry/vehicle pages for painting. Sadly I can't find a picture of them online.
These new rules seem very nice. I've been painting up my Betrayal at Calth as Emperor's Children in preparation for 2.0 and it seems like they'll be really fun to play! Thanks for the great overview! Can't wait to get my hands on the Age of Darkness box and the Liber Hereticus!
so Palatine Blades can't be equipped with jump packs anymore? :x
It's kind of sad that palatines can't take jump packs any more :c
Noooooooooo! 😭
Same with Sons of Horus reavers. I noticed that Destroyer squads with jump packs are separate unit entry to the regular destroyers.
Fingers crossed for a supplement with jump options for legion special units.
What?! I have like 15 of them :/
The Phoenix Terminators are all characters, so they can issue challenges and don't need Chosen Warriors. I believe they are the only Terminators that are all characters.
I think I'd have to start an emperors children army if they released a Fabius Bile mini. He's one of my favorite characters for any legion, and it would be really cool to field him in that rite of war with the kakophoni and his other experiments.
That'd be sick. I kinda want them to bring out the other lord commanders since there are so many interesting ones.
You could probably convert one by combining a mk 4 apothecary with bits from his 40k model, and then run him as a primus medicae
Minor correction. AFAIK ..Saul is (presumed) dead. He isnt working for Malcador. Probably.
Wrong
Great video, got a lot of love for the Emperor’s Children and their rules look fitting!
Lorewise, have I missed something? I thought Tarvitz died on Istvaan 3!
He confused Loken and Tarvitz i think, as Loken works for Malcador later when Garo goes to pick him up
Yeah the bro trio from before Istvaan III I always mix up
Old hammer of math was he just out damaged manus over like 10 rounds, but they did swap weapons and with that it was insanely fast cause the hammer Fulgrim made makes him win in 3 rounds as he would end up with 12 attacks cause it had Blind
Wouldn't the sublime swordsman trait imply that things like the Emperor's Children charge bonus and Duellest Edge wouldn't affect the bonus amount of attacks that Fulgrim has on challenges?
New player here looking forward to listening this!
Fulgrim may have been under daemonic influence, but he chose Manus' fate and then suffered for it, allowing the warp possession to take him over fully. But as we find out in the Primarchs novellas, Fulgrim was biding his time and learning from the daemon, going so far as to kick it out (and imprison it in the painting) on his own while no one was watching. Which makes sense with his later desire to ascend to daemon(prince)hood, something he wouldn't really have needed if he was already a daemon. And he did have massive power after Isstvaan V when the daemon-in-Fulgrim even stopped a Titan single-handedly with warp shenanigans.
Came down to the comments to say this. Its the exact moment after Killing Manus that he realized what he did and how far things had gone and he let his guard down, this is when the demon took control. That part is as canon as Warhammer gets.
You may though find some disagreement or theories about the how long and if Fulgrim ditched the demon that possessed him. But officially-ish (according to what Fulgrim says in the books) Fulgrim bested the demon controlling him and willingly joined up with Slaanesh.
I still Personally believe that Fulgrim is still stuck in the painting and that the daemon is still in charge of him there are lots of hints to that in Fabius bile book along with other HH books so I think the left it as a choice for later in line if they decide to bring clonegrim into the story again
@@maliceharding4668 Warhammer is big universe so there is allot of room for theories. There is a good sized chunk of people who think Fulgrim is still possessed and if they think that is the most intriguing outcome then that is cool. Personally I am in the Fulgrim is out and turned camp. I do think the intended canon of Black Library would that Fulgrim is out. A short story by ADB called Aurelian has Logar look at the mirror and see the demon. The HH book Angel Exterminatus where Fulgrim ascends to demon lord status doesnt really work if he is still possessed. I think that Clonegrim from the Bile book is a kind of compromise for those who still want a loyal Fulgrim.
@@aizo111 my issue with his rise to daemon primarch is he had to use petroabo life force to rise but none of the other primarch need someone else's life force to turn hitting that it was still the daemon
@@maliceharding4668 Its a good theory, but to put up an opposing view on it. Fulgrim didn't become a Demon primarch by using Perturabo's life force, that was a plan to make himself pretty much a god, but it failed. Perty got his life force back and then broke Fulgrim's body. He was already changing into something more, but when his physical form was broken it kind of birthed him into a creature of the imaterium.
As far as I know there isn't a whole ton of detail of each Primarches acension to demon lord status. Horus and Curze never becomes a demon lords, Magnus is physically shattered by Russ, and then warp stuff warp stuff.. I think he is a demon lord by the end and um.. The rest seem to happen post heresy. I think.
my dude, are you the guy who used to do old world wars on mwg? I loved that series. Great vid, looking forward to future stuff
Hey Ash, love your vids. Been lurking your content for years, IMO by far the channel for the hobby. I've started playing wargames since battle from black reach when I was 13 and you are clearly as OG as it gets, the best kind of grognard veteran. Could you clarify if murderous strike/rending/breaching triggers on to hit or to wound? From what I've seen from leaks they all proc on the wound but it might have changed since then. Gonna pick up EC for this edition and that would help me figure out what weapon to give to who. Anyhow, keep the great content coming, you're the best! Hope to play you one day!
Allies for my Death Guard!
Ack, no Sunkillers? Lascannon heavies are going to be _lethal_ in this edition. Glad to see the rest of my pretty boys are just as preening in this edition though.
I suspect you’ll see all those units get added back in when each Legion gets a supplement
I believe they will be updating all of those pdf supplements. They were originally written to come out after this edition, but were edited for first when this was delayed.
It’s the Cronenberg Legion …
it would've been smart for me to get this book instead of the loyalist one while I'm doing EC... I'm doing preheresy though so its a win for Saul tarvitz and eidolon together.
Hey a new plastic land raiders in the color section
anyone notice the predator with the volkite cannon at 22:33
rip sunkillers :(
Wait, so you are saying his sudden strike and duelist edge which raises his initiative effects his sublime swordsman special rule? So modified initiative values are taken into account? I was reading "characteristic" as unmodified initiative. So does that mean if an opponent has like a power fist and drops their initiative to 1 and he is in a challenge and on the charge that he gets 9 extra attacks?
Yes. You’d use the final modified initiative.
I don't think that's right. Unwieldy makes you strike at Initiative step 10, it doesn't make you Initiative 1. EC rule makes you strike at an Initiative step higher than normal, it doesn't add one to Initiative.
There is Ryanlor the Ancient dreadnought?
poor Rylanor is not in the book, sadly
Expect all the legions get an expansion book eventually.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Please no - 40k codices in Heresy! "expansion book " treatment will be a huge cash grab
Pretty sure he died in that cathedral when lucuis turned
Tarvitz that is
Tarvitz lived through Lucius' betrayal, you may be thinking of Solomon. Tarvitz is implied to die during the final bombardment of istvaan III, I say implied because you can never trust GW to keep a character dead.
The new interpretation of Flawless Execution means that Unwieldy weapons hit at Initiative 2 on the Charge! That's insane. Makes getting the charge of even more important for certain units. Kakaphoni seemed to have been nerfed considerably. Pinning is a weaker rule than the old Bioshock, which I thought was lore appropriate. It was counterbalanced by Get's Hot. Not it still Get's Hot, but doesn't have the Bioshock rule. Will see how they play in HH2.0.
did they previously have deflagrate?
@@Blackhound61 no they had a rule called bioshock. Unless immune to fear, you took a leadership test at ld - number of casualties. If you failed, you lost an additional D6 models. It was a bit OP, but fluffy. People don't realise how much of drawback Gets Hot is on multi shot weapons, so it was a counterbalance like it was for Plasma
@@fareastwargaming ah so it is a bit of a nerf then. With multi shot gets hot, does that mean you have to roll them one guy at a time... eugh
Who was "inside" Fulgrim? Oh the Reflection Cracked was such a messed up short story!
It’s Eddie Murphy
Yeah I straight up refuse to believe it’s canon.
First for the fabulous third
Palestine’s can’t take jump packs anymore??
lmao make sure to add as many spoilers as possible for the noobies mate
I don’t think most of the people picking this game up are going to wait to read 55 novels lol
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Spend the next year or two reading these books. Only then can you play this game ;P
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames lol yea i know i know but at least let 'em discover something on the wiki pages XD