Cam Phasers on the Gen2 Raptor, how bad could it be?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- The infamous Cam Phaser issue that has been roaming the Ecoboost and Gen2 Raptor community for quite some time. Is it that bad? Info is in the video.
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i know this video is over three years old, however the presented information is very important and relevant in 2023. thank you.
Ford's been having cam phaser issues for SIXTEEN years! Good lord.
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Removing the cab off the frame is insanely unnecessary on F150’s for cam phaser replacements. I work at Ford and have done plenty of these repairs myself, and removing the cab is by no means necessary.
Thanks a lot for the info, I plan on buying a used gen 2 raptor and this eases my mind. I have done months of research and cam phasers seem to be the biggest conversation piece in all the forums so this info helps massively. Appreciate it man.
2018 eco here... with 36k miles on it. Apparently the noise i've been hearing for the last couple days is my cam phazer. Thanks for the "cold start" mention.
Just bought a 2018 F-150 with the 3.5 and 37K miles and it's doing it. Gonna specify the newer style 2020 units going back in.
I was at the dealership to talk about a Roush upgrade, when my advisor stopped me after turning on my truck. Told me he heard a noise, and that I needed to turn my truck in to get my cam phasers upgraded. Nothing beats a good advisor and a warranty!
I was driving in my truck in NorCal, when I was trying to pass people on the freeway. Seemed like the truck lost some of its power, it was downshifting more to be in the power and when I heard a chime and the wrench icon came on the screen. Pulled over and checked the engine nothing seemed out of the ordinary. 100 miles down the 5 from and a CEL came on, took it to Autozone to read the codes and a P0018 and P0021 was read. Took it to Ford yesterday and dropped it off, called me this morning. Cam Phasers need to be replaced at 48k, so looks like in a week I'll have my truck back. What a bummer we spend so much $ on these trucks to have issues.
I totally agree with you but it is a good thing it happened before 70,000 miles otherwise they would not cover it. It is too bad Ford does not build quality anymore. I had Fords in the past and they were good I will not buy a Ford again.
Great video - thanks for the interview with the tech, good to get some expert information on this issue. I've got my 2019 Expedition (36k miles) at the dealer right now getting a new cam phaser.
I had the same issue on my 2011 F150, but at 120k miles. You'd think Ford would have this solved and fixed by now.
I was told by a Ford service guy , that if you floor your gas peadal , and try to start, the engine will not start, only turn over, but it will force oil up to the Phasers, quieting rattle
This is true. I was doing it regularly. Hold the gas to the floor and crank about 4 seconds. Release the gas pedal and key and the truck starts with no rattle. (I have stopped bothering since my '18 eco is due to go in the shop next week for phaser replacement.)
I have a 2014 F-15 eco boost, I do the same thing by pressing the gas and turning the Ignition. It works. I don’t here the rattling on a cold start. This is just putting a bandaid on it till I get them replaced.This is the first problem I have had with my truck. I have 175,000 miles on it.
If its just a rattle whi cares it's just a noise
I have a 2020, 3.5 ecoboost in my f150 lariat. It went in to the dealer for phasers to be replaced
Really appreciate content like this. I have a ‘19 built in April, no issues so far, but the cam phaser problem has been a concern.
adam0311 change the oil a lot like every 5k miles and you won’t have any problems later on
Hien Truong I dropped the oil every 5,000, Mobile 1 and Motorcraft filters. Had lots of problems.
It is a big deal. These engines run off the knock sensors and when those cam phasers cannot accurately control the timing of the valve train (think dynamic compression) under high boost, high load you run the risk of detonation. This happens because the fuel, timing and valve train maps don't take into account the cam phasers could be clocked out of position and missing the overlap that is supposed to be there at high RPM.
Around 25,000 miles I had my first go with these. It started as a loud start-up rattle around 15,000 miles and progressed to being generally noisy during moderate acceleration. Over time this noise increased until the engine had detonation and I received multiple P03XX misfire codes. If you don't think misfires are a big deal on a boosted engine, especially with cast aluminum pistons running over a BAR of boost... well.
40,000 miles and I am back to where I was at around 20,000 miles. These engines are a ticking financial time bomb outside of a warranty.
not a big deal as I doubt you will have high boost or high loads 5- 10 seconds after start up, after that it has oil pressure to work normally.
Yea I just had to drop off my 18 F150 3.5L Ecoboost to the dealer yesterday. 3,200.00 dollars worth of warranty work Cam Phasers and, Timing Chain. Thank goodness it's still under the 60,000 powertrain warranty. I just hit 49,000 miles. But now I only have what 11,000 miles left after this warranty work is done. But I did buy the Ford ESP warranty with the 125,000 mile warranty. I'm glad I did now. Lol 😂😂
Very good video. Just bought a 18 Raptor and have been curious about this issue. I don't believe that I have it on my new used raptor. Glad to hear that its really not that serious and from the research that I have done, this is an issue that is fixed after a one time service. Other than this issue, it's a very solid engine.
I really appreciate this video - can’t thank you enough.
Thanks Kino ! Always helping the Raptor community.
Lots of great info. Enjoy learning more about these trucks. Keep it coming!
Was excited to shop for a Raptor. After the FB page I’m on and channels like this....there’s no way I’m getting one.
It's a shame because I absolutely love my Raptor more than any cat/truck I've ever owned & I've owned allot of great ones! To put a black eye on your brand over something this stupid is unreal & for Ford to give their consumers the middle finger on the repair is also very foolish on their part ‼️ buy a TRX 🤘🤘
If this Issue is on all Ford 3.5 Ecoboost, They need to make this an Official Recall!
Ford 5.4 3v the early cam phaser generation, was training for the Ecoboost engines.
Thank you for the info!! Much appreciated!!!!!
Great video, cool seeing the phaser apart. It’s not just the h.o. That has problems. Ford says they don’t cause any durability problems. Hope Steve doesn’t get in trouble for not following the workshop manual.
Best video about this issue I have seen.
I watched the whole video, but I'm still confused - is the problem specifically the metal pin or that little plastic part that breaks off? Or does the pin cause the plastic part to break off? Is it a design flaw?
As a former ford tech I've seen this a lot. And why did you lift the whole cab to do phasers? That's a bunch of extra work when they can be done without removing the cab. And two. Out of all the ones I've done 99% were due to lack of maintenance. Neglected oil changes. The oil journals are so small they get trash in them causing them to fail. A good way to tell if phaser is bad you will get a misfire code for one side. All cylinders on that side will have a misfire code. Cause it's stuck in advance or retard. This is nothing new. You will also feel it.
I’m a current Ford tech and I do several sets of phasers every month. It’s not a lack of maintenance issue. Most of the engines I get into are clean and obviously properly maintained while only a few have the telltale golden varnish inside indicating extended oil change intervals. It’s Fords crappy phaser design, although this past month I’ve been installing the new style phasers on most of the engines as the old style phasers are phased out. The new phasers have a different part number (they have an ML3Z prefix) and look totally different from the old style (no wound spring is visible). Hopefully these will be a permanent repair.
@@ghostwrench2292 oooo. Updated phasers. Got any pics you can email me with part numbers? I want to do some research on these. What what's different besides the spring not being visible
@Anthony H - I do have pictures. I took a picture of the new box with part # and I have a side-by-side of the old style (that I took off) next to the updated one that I installed. I don’t actually know what the difference is aside from how it looks. They just showed up and we’ve been installing them. 😂
@@ghostwrench2292 hell yeah 👍
Do you think it's okay not to replace them if it has a shutter on startup only?
I just put a 2018 expo in shop for the same problem. Ford told dealer to put whole new engine in it with new turbos and all.
you can prime the oil system prior to starting a cold engine so you won't have phaser rattle noise
My truck will be on its 3rd set of cam phasers, it`s back ordered for 20 weeks.
How often do you change your oil??
Appreciate the info sir! Thank you.
The video is very helpful. Thank you. Can’t believe the tech mentions that it’s not a big deal. Puts me more at ease. I haven’t had issues but looking to budget for future problems. Anyone know how much the replacement should cost at a dealer or independent shop if they can do the work ?
Use caution shopping for a used Raptor right now. Every one I’ve found has been a Ford Buy Back that’s has been lemon law’d after the phasers have been replaced. Ford will give you a 12/12 warranty but they’re not eligible for a dealer extended warranty.
It sure would be nice if ford would use a better cam phasor after all these years. I guess it's cheaper for ford to have the customers pay for it.
New phaser design has been in my dealer the past month. About 80% of the phaser jobs I’ve done got the new phasers installed.
I did an oil change on my buddy's 2020 Raptor and had (6) small needle bearings come out of the oil filter! He did complain that he had a ticking/ knocking sound coming from the motor and thought it might be the Cam Phaser issue or just in need of an oil change. Where would these needle bearings have come from? I seen a video of a Ford 6.0 diesel having engine failure due to lifter bearing issues, could that be an issue here as well? (Only 12,000 miles BTW)
That is absolutely crazy. I would be freaking out if that was my motor. I have a tundra and I can see the oil filter they are open and I exam the oil filter every time I change the oil I look for specs of anything every time I change the oil.
Mine does the rattle too. I thought it was the timing chain and all
Just got the call about My 2018 Raptor (35,700 miles), loud rattle on startup and they are replacing the cam phasers. This worries me for future of owning the truck? Should I get out of it ask for a extended warranty on the work being done since I’m so close to being out of warranty? Also with only 200 miles on it had to have the entire trans replaced right after I bought it 😩. But it’s runs strong between then absolutely no problems and I DRIVE it the Raptor way.
It hurts to see this guy's chewed up nails and tremors. Ford is sticking it to the consumers of these EcoBoost engines. It good to do a little research before buying a vehicle.
Once a engagement pin breaks now your timing is off every time it fails to engage your going to have misfires
I have a 17 Raptor, I noticed you said the 18 has revisions and bigger turbos? Could you maybe clarify, thanks
Same, I have a 17 Raptor. Would like to know the difference.
Do 2020s have it too?
So does the cam phasers they swap out for not have stupid plastic parts in? Otherwise the problem is jut going to return right?
Number one problem is the oil pan pickup tube, the screen gets clogged and starves the cam phasers. Don’t believe the crap about synthetic oils going 5000 miles between oil changes. If you have had to replace cam phasers and timing chains. Do an engine clean with an oil additive, then pull the pan and clean the junk out of the oil pickup tube. The twin turbo sixes are harder on oil because of the temperatures. I have heard of people that have had to replace cam phasers three times in 150,000 miles. The pickup tube screen is not that big and gets clogged easy. Smart techs will check it to make sure it’s not clogged. Don’t replace cam phasers and timing chains without checking. FYI
I never heard about this . I am looking at a 2013 with 39000 miles . My brother's truck really nice . I heard this rattle at start up , but went away real quick . Truck drives nice . I am thinking of getting rid of my 2015 F250 6.2 gas for his truck . I use Pennzoil ultra platinum and change oil every 5k . Makes sense if turbos are red hot and are hard on oil . Is having oil screen checked expensive or can I use an atative to flush out and clean system . Side note my F250 is loves gas this is the reason thinking about F150 ecoboost. Any opinions . Thanks your take makes a lot of sense.
@Copisetic1 - that is absolutely NOT true. I have replaced some oil pans (due to oil leaks) in conjunction with a cam phaser replacement and have never seen any indications of an oil delivery problem. It is purely a mechanical problem as the tech on this video was able to show.
Yes my 2017 Raptor with 18k miles is at Chapman Ford Scottsdale dealer shop now getting the Cam Phazer pinging sound fixed, I have always heard it but went away once warmed up until recently, then my Ford service advisor said they always new it was an issue but only fix if customer complains about it, I was like WTF lady, seriously, she just smiled with no comment, I am not happy with Ford, I luv my Raptor, but Ford does not take care of its customers, so now i am searching for all known Raptor issues before my 3 year warranty expires in March 2020, thank you for great video :))
How long did it take to replace? I am in Az as well buying used and they are ordering parts to fix it 1st.
@@Xray8906 Chapman Ford said they fixed it in 1 day after they received the parts
Realtor Edward you find anything else buddy? I have a 2019 Ford raptor supercrew.
Very helpful video thank you!
I’m a Ford guy but this is embarrassing, they’ve had chain stretch and/or phaser issues for over 20 years! Starting with the 4.0 sohc. What a joke. No wonder they are going electric.
It’s completely blows my mind that ford literally learned NOTHING from the complete failure of the 5.4, just stick the same garbage design into their most expensive and prestigious truck and hope for the best! When will ford build a truck that doesn’t need the cab lifted off of it before even 50,000 miles. When these trucks are outside of warranty, it’s going to break the damn bank just to keep these things roadworthy. Junk motors. I have a 2017 and I’ve been through 2 sets of these phasers.
The 4.6 and 5.4 3 valve engines were severely defective. They would continue to rattle. The problem with the engine was the oil pump was defective and the clearance on the camshafts were too small.
My 2017 has had it replaced two times now has 90K on it. Today I got in my 2019 and it’s smoking like a 85 Monte Carlo
Were you lucky enough to have it replaced under warranty both times?
My Monte Carlos never smoked!
Now in August 2023 , are the newest cam phasers FAILPROOF ?
Nice Video, thanks for the info. I purchased a preowned 2014 F150 with the 3.5 EB with 13K miles and put almost a total of 55K when I trade it in. No issues or noises from that engine, that is why I got a 2018 (new) with the same engine specs. Right now is at the dealership due to this issue. Still under warranty, however I am concerned about for how long they warrant the repairs? Anybody knows?
False. I had a rattle for a while and my truck failed to start. Had them replaced and 12k miles later I'm getting the same rattle again. I'm requesting a new motor.
Dang, the dude took the body off of the truck for Cam Phaser replacement?
That's what I'm wondering...
Could this trigger a check engine light or a VCT code?
I think my next truck with be an early 2000s ls can buy an entire running engine for like $500
Damn that would be painful to see your truck like that
It was nothing bad. Ford designed these truck with a easy access to remove the Cab. The tech spent less than 40 minutes to separate it from the chassis. This whole thing is not as bad as people make it. Had my truck back the next morning.
1wayPhil if you buy a Ducati, you will have to spend about 2k a year on maintenance and valve adjustment. I call it maintenance and don’t see anything bad with it to be honest. Still a very reliable truck. I beat mine on the daily.
Mine is in for this problem right now, 2019 Gen 2
Thanks for the informational video. I have a 2019 Raptor with 25K miles that's going into the dealer for cam phaser repair ( rattling on cold start up) next month. Any advice to pass on before I bring it is much appreciated. Happy Hoildays!
I am so sorry you guys with these expensive trucks are having these problems.
My '17 had this at about 29,000 miles. The cam phasers were replaced, and the noise started back within a couple of thousand miles. My lease is up at the end of April and I was thinking about keeping the truck, but I'm thinking I'm not going to at this point.
What did you end up doing?
@@sponsurd they gave me a big discount and 6 year 0% on a 2019, so I took a chance with it. That was right before covid. Had I saw that coming, I'd have waited and gotten a 2019 Ram 2500, but that's life.
@@TadMarko update on your 2019?
@@TadMarko update on your 2019? ive been thinking about getting one
@@luvlaz5720 Since I've been working from home, I'm only putting a fraction of the miles I used to, but I still ended up with the cam phaser issue at 15,400 miles. It's actually at the dealer right now getting them fixed under warranty. I am getting the new part numbers and I believe these new ones will not be susceptible to the problem.
my 2019 navigator with 10k is doing the same thing, its at the dealer getting 4 cam phasers
Very valuable video
I’m having a lot of trouble with my 2018 ford raptor. I got a VCT code.
Could bad cam phasers cause low oil pressure ?
3:15 OMG did they really lift the entire body off the chasis? You must really have faith in that tech to put it all back together. Anyway - I think I have this issue- my check engine light came on a few weeks ago. Local mechanic said it was "cam shaft balancer" but after watching your video I think it's the phaser. I have the cold start rattle and the random engine knock. I have a 2018 Raptor. I got in April 2018. I;m at 67,000 miles.
I was thinking the same thing!
Cab off for this repair is extreme, in my opinion. We only get paid 9.6 hours for the whole job and I can have the phasers off the engine in about 2 hours leaving the cab on. About the only jobs I cab off for is engine replacement or cylinder head replacement because cab off leaves lots of room to work! 😂
For a 90k truck that is unacceptable.
I"M GLAD I WALKED A WAY....................
2017 raptor in for this issue at 70k miles
fixed and having the same problem again at 95k miles
Lmao that mechanic is like get the fuck away from me
I love me a good set of messed up cam phasers
whats the defference between gen2 2017 and gen2 2019 turbos ?
Bdr 6/6 compressor size. The late 18 on have a larger compressor.
@@OffroadAlliance thnx alot for the info
@@OffroadAlliance will the 2017 raptor turbos fit my 2018 raptor? because I like how the turbos on the 2017 are very loud with a catback exhaust ,I have a full catback exhaust with catless downpipe and I still cant hear mine
Cirilo Gonzalez so you would trade performance for sound? The 17 compressors are smaller than the 18 model ones. I wouldn’t do it. Downpipes add zero performance gains but they do sound great.
@@OffroadAlliance yea ur right ,also will it cause wear and tear on the engine since I have catless downpipes with stock tune ?
good video, thanks
wow I am going through this same thing the new fix should be it
Do they NEED to pull the body to do these?
Tom K it’s easier. Took them 45 minutes to remove.
Trucks are designed to to have cab come off relatively easy. Some techs can have the cab off by themselves in 30 minutes if committed.
LSWL00 of course you can do it that way. It just made everything easier on my tech. Took much less time
Not really. They just do it because it’s easier.
How much did fixing the problem run sir? I seen it runs somewhere between $3,000-$3500 is that correct?
$6400 at the dealer. Thanks Ford:)
Every 30,000 miles ford trucks need $3,000-7000 worth of repairs. It’s always been like this, keep them until the warranty is up, and MOVE ON, or don’t own a ford.
@@jaredchampagne2752 I'm at 45k miles on an EcoBoost with no issues. Get off the internet kid.
XRAYDID there’s no need to be a bitter, salty and angry old man. I’m speaking the truth. It’s common knowledge in the industry, the ecoboost lineup is the worst engines ever put into automobiles.
@@jaredchampagne2752 as someone who has owned 3 seperate vehicles with ecoboost engines, I disagree.
Mine rattles at startup but not for the quick 2-3 seconds most people experience. Mine is more like 30 seconds...wastegate rattle? That's what I was originally thinking myself
Sounds like a wastegate rattle, a cam phaser rattle is much louder
Damn and I really wanted a Raptor too. Oh well.
Anyone know if the 2nd gen 2.7's having this issue, too?
231mac they don’t. Two buddies have them and they are solid. The problems with the Gen 2 3.5 isn’t the phasers, it’s the entire design that lends to starving the phasers at startup. Just a bad engine.
They are having oil leaks due to plastic oil pans.
2.7L uses completely different phasers, so no, they do not have this problem.
So your saying its a good thing I kept my 2014 Gen 1 .
Putting anything plastic in an engine is just stupid engineering
AGREE !
My turbos went bad after cam phasers were replaces
It says something about the design of a truck when you have to pull the cab off a truck to work on the engine.
says more about the Engineering that it only takes about 45 Minutes to do it.
Is this your first truck? GM, Ford and Dodge remove cab for easier access to the engine bay.. Also I had my cam phasers replaced without removing the cab..
@@kellygill6090 nope. Been around trucks my whole life. Learned to drive at age 9 in and old Dodge 3/4 ton. If you don't mind me asking, how expensive was the cam phaser replacement?
@@unknownunknown-eb6zj good engineering would be to design a product that would be last and would require servicing with a standard set of wrenches. Thats a semi quote from one of my professors back in engineering school.
@@mikeshelton5629 Excellent Quote!
I haven't seen anyone pull the cab to do cam phasors before.
Several videos on here in Ford shops showing the cabs removed while doing a phaser repair.
@@mikeshelton5629
Yeah but it's not necessary.
@@curtis1951 Its not, but it is much faster for a good tech. Takes 30-45 min to pull the cab.
2017 f150 at 59,000 cam phasers going out most likely because their plastic suck ass oil pan leaked.
I got 2 Raptors with this issue I’m pretty sure lol 😂
Both of mine too. 2019 and 2020
Lol your questioning someone working for Ford. Too many issues on these raptors for me.
buy a tundra problem solved
They’re charging me 10 grand to get an engine replacement
happened to mine also
The Master mechanic wasn't really helpful at answering your questions
A lot of noises on fords are considered normal and don't require your attention. furd junk.
Sounds like a bad part design.
So wrong i own a 2017 once it fails your fucked
Ok so I’m not going to buy a Raptor. Thanks 👍🏻
American manufacture.... designed to fail. Quantity over quality. Plastic parts in the engine. Pathetic. I've been shopping for US trucks for years and I JUST CANT DO IT. Pathetic business.
Every vehicle has plastic parts in the engine...
Oh, really? And what magical country are you from where the engines never fail and your manufactures place customer satisfaction over profits?
231mac So that’s your response. You choose to defend the industry instead of point out the obvious fact that American cars have been trash since they began making them. Chrysler, Pontiac, Ford, Chevrolet have always been absolutely awful. Compare those to the reliability of Toyota, Honda, Porsche, Mercedes.... BEFORE the USA was outsourced to make them. Japanese Toyota made trucks used to get almost a million miles without having to go to the shop. American manufacturing destroys quality.
Don’t buy fords, Ram, Gm,, cant put the miles on them, thanks to the French, Italians, and mindless engineers of today. Buy Toyota !
I've finally solved this problem on mine by using a pre-oiler. $500 solution versus >$2K phaser replacement that's just a "reset button". Video: th-cam.com/video/T_QuLckdV_k/w-d-xo.html