I have discovered that you can make your own stainless steel shaft if the old one is corroded and failing. 3/32" stainless tig welding rod is just about the right diameter, and one rod would be a lifetime worth of replacements.
Nicely done! I can only imagine you have a background in electronics assembly/engineering/work instructions, etc. A compliment to how well you explain things and how thorough you are... I have this problem on my boat and I would not venture to simply replace the paddlewheel. However, that might explain when a squirt of WD40 on mine seems to get it running well for a while then back to intermittent. After watching this, I'm confident to replace the wheel. Thanks for the nice vids!
I encourage you to make more marine type videos, you are very good at explaining and easy going. Thank u, and safe selling. Also, if you can make some videos concerning sail boats, which is the best used sailing, that would be great . Thanks again!
Very helpful video! I ordered the replacement paddlewheel "just in case" cleaning the transducer wheel didn't get it working again. I'll go ahead and make the change. Thanks!
Another fantastic and in depth video! Thank you so much for taking the time to go into such detail and in a way even the lay person can understand. I'm dealing with the same issue now on my boat, just waiting for the replacement parts to show up. The person who invented the term "Stainless Steel" clearly never owned a boat that's kept in saltwater! :). Wish I would have known about the 3/32 welding rod before ordering the replacement parts! That's a great tip, especially since it probably wouldn't hurt to replace the shaft every year or so. As I'm sure you know, just a few tenths off on boat speed makes almost all the other data inaccurate as well.
Hi James, it is always nice to hear from you and see your videos. Yup, paddle wheel sensors are a work in progress, I don't know if it is possible to get then as accurate as we want. After I clean the hull, the sensor reads too fast for about 6 weeks, I adjust the software downward, but the next six weeks I'm dialing it back up. Then just before my 6 month haul out I get intermittent freezing. One thing I found useful is to bring a small cup of acetic acid (vinegar) to the boat and soak the paddlewheel and steel shaft in about 1" of that overnight (just the lower paddlewheel, not the whole sensor). I tap the steel shaft out to expose the whole surface area. The next morning residual debris comes off easily with a toothbrush rinse. As you know the computer uses that paddlewheel speed to calculate secondary data like true wind angle, so all those readings are messed up if the paddlewheel is off. One thing I finally realized is that the computer considers the water to be the frame of reference, so in tidal current it does a major calculation to correct for that. So when my paddlewheel is off I get incorrect data for TWA, too. Looking up the mast to use apparent wind angle after all seems pretty good. I'm told that ultrasound speed sensors are better but they require a larger through-hull. By the way, I started hanging a GoPro from the bottom of the mast, for a unique view of the team while racing. My videos are not up to your quality but it is a unique view.
@@spelunkerd Perhaps the one good thing about the paddle wheel being inaccurately slow is it always makes it look like we're in the right current! Playing the currents is critical in our area, even when just cruising and I suspect it's a big part of where you sail also. I have an ultrasound speed sensor that came with the boat which was working fine at first but quickly started either not reading at all or showing wildly inaccurate readings. After talking with some people and doing a lot of research I found about 50% of the time people love the US sensor and say it works all the time, every time. The other 50% of the people had the same bad experience as myself. It's unfortunate I wasn't in the other 50% because it seems like such a great idea. Because the US sensors work by sensing particles in the water I wonder if it depends on the local water particle content? I'd think it wouldn't matter but who knows, maybe it does. I played around trying to diagnose and fix mine for a while but became so frustrated with that one sensor making all the money I spent on the rest of the system basically useless I went back to a traditional paddle wheel. I've been told by a couple reliable people who work in the boat electronics industry that the majority of pro boats and high end teams stick with the paddle wheels and they seem to be in agreement the "Signet Marine" paddle wheel is the best. It requires a different thru hull than the Airmar though. Although I certainly don't fall into the 'pro' or 'high end' category I do plan to switch over to the signet next haul out if for no other reason than because I already spent so much darn $$$ on the instruments I'd prefer to have the most accurate info coming out of it that I can :). Thanks again for your always very detailed and thoughtful tech videos. I'll have to try your acetic acid trick. Lets see those race videos of yours sometime soon!
Thanks for the followup, it was a fun video to make. Another thing worth noting is the fact that some paddlewheels have one magnet every 180 deg, and others (like mine) every 90 deg. If you swap in the wrong kind you'll get speed readings that are so far out they can't be adjusted electronically.
Looks like you got her fixed Dave. Although the pin was rusty and could have caused an issue, one has to wonder if there was an issue going on inside the electronics of the sensor. In any event, all looks good now. And that's one nice looking boat that you got there :)
Thanks for stopping by, Terry. In retrospect I might have sanded the sprocket with a nonferrous abrasive, although I suspect that might not last very long. The metal used for the stainless pin doesn't seem to be great in salt water, although I don't know how old it is.
thanks for the video. corrosion the nemesis of boats. Look forward to more boating related videos. Maybe we will have to use my boat since yours is in such Bristol fashion
Yeah, occult rust even on a stainless part. I might try searching for a cheaper replacement the next time this fails.... Thanks for stopping by, Stephen.
This is why I love TH-cam (mixed feeling on parent company Alphabet)! People smarter than me willing to put in the time and effort to help us simpletons. I am having this exact problem with my transducer...registers fine when I take it out and spin it by hand but reads zero when I put it in the water and move the boat...on the face of it, that makes no sense and I was looking at having to replace the entire transducer. Based on the wire splice I found when troubleshooting it appears the previous owner did exactly that. I'm still not clear on what is going on i.e. what the exact failure mode is. I assume the actual hall effect sensor is in the cylinder of the transducer and that the paddle wheel serves as the external magnet (guessing a magnet in two of the paddle wheel arms and none in the other two). Every time a magnetized paddle wheel arm passes the top of its arc it trips the sensor causing the voltage change demonstrated in this video. All good so far. But why would that sequence fail in the water but work when out of the water and why would swapping the paddle wheel (or maybe more accurately the paddle wheel axel) fix it? If the paddle wheel spins the magnets in the wheel's arms are passing the hall effect sensor and should be causing a voltage change no matter the driving force...but that is apparently not the case. Further more what effect would the rusty axel shaft have, why would that cause failure? I can see that it would likely slow the wheel down but that should just cause an inaccurate reading, not a zero reading. Why does it cause a zero reading? The only think I can figure/guess is that the axel is supposed to make an electrical connection w/ the wheel through the axel and the rust inhibits that connection when combined with the water. Is that what is happening? Clearly I'm missing something in how this system works. Bottom line, thank you for the video, I never would have figured this out. Now if I could just find the correct paddle wheel kit. I have and old (2004 ish) Raymarine ST60 depth instrument and the part number for my Airmar sensor should be on a vinyl tag/label on the cable...but it isn't. The sensor does list a part number on its top cap, 20-399-01 but I haven't been able to cross reference that number and one parts dealer told me that was only the part number for the cap...can't cross-reference paddle wheel from that number. Maybe I'll just go with the welding rod option.
You may find more compelling evidence if you get the boat out of the water. Critters tend to find little crevices to hide in, and I'm guessing your wheel isn't spinning because of mechanical obstruction. By the way, these days I have been removing my paddlewheel, then soaking it, the axle, and the bottom part of the housing overnight in a glass of acetic acid. I do that beside the connection so I don't need to remove wires. Brush off, rinse, and reinstall. Weak acid dissolves the calcium deposits very effectively. One could argue that it will also accelerate rust in the stainless steel axle but I haven't noticed that, yet. Double check to be sure the paddles are oriented to catch the water and spin the correct way.
Great looking engine you have. I have problems with rust on the flywheel and other wheels on the cam belt. Why is that and what can be done about it. please?
In a salt water environment, any bare metal surface will collect dew from the air overnight and flash rust very quickly. Of course you can grind the rust off and repaint with heat tolerant paint. A quick solution to morning dew is to warm the interior of the boat each night so the ambient temp inside never gets down to the dew point. If you have access to shore power a better solution is to use a dehumidifier, which will produce heat and pull water from the air. Works great, reduces mold, prevents freezing tubing, and protects wood. At my marina the cost is 50 cents a day through the winter.
This seems to be an example of where the electronic, diagnostic troubleshooting was not useful. The speed system measured good both before and after the paddle wheel/axle replacement. How could that be?
The wheel was binding mechanically. I get what you are asking, what's the point of going through the effort. But even a negative result is still valid, you know what's working normally, and you've not found any evidence of a dirty signal or intermittent electrical fault. By proving the electronic system was intact, I was able to replace just the paddlewheel rather than the entire sensor. That's a big deal since new sensors use the NMEA 2000 communication protocol so I'd have to pay for a translator as well, or upgrade the entire system. I got peace of mind that there isn't anything more underlying this problem. And I had fun, too, ha ha.
I see. So the wheel only rotaded at the bench and not in the water. A light sanding with 2000 paper and some oil will give you the old wheel/axle as working spare parts.@@spelunkerd
Well i never, a tiny bit of friction stopped it. I suppose thats water for you, give it a chance and it creates rust. I dont suppose that a different pin/bush material could fix it, say nylon bush and pin?
Yeah, that is a good point, I didn't remove the pin to clean it because I didn't expect high quality stainless steel to rust so much. I may have been able to get another year of life out of the wheel by lightly sanding with nonferrous abrasive. I had tried light machine oil and silicone spray before, and those didn't work. Constant exposure to salt water washes light oil away, and heavy oil would impede movement. As it is, by the time I realized it was just a rusted spindle I already had the replacement part.
Yes, you're right. That's why I spent so much time with it on the bench, I had a hard time believing it was as simple as a little rust on the spindle. In the end, it's consistently working fine now so I'm confident the problem is solved. Thanks for stopping by!
To my surprise, yes. It wasn't noticeable on the bench, the spin resistance was the same as the replacement part, which is why I took the extra effort to prove the other elements of the chain were OK. Thanks for visiting!
Thanks, Don. Your remark about arachnoiddotcom was automatically placed by TH-cam in a spam folder, and with my old browser I can't seem to approve it(!). He's got a great little historical description of Olber's paradox there, it was well worth reviewing. I didn't realize he is a sailor, I'll have to spend a little more time there. Cheers.
Great question! There is a calibration that one can do through a series of keystrokes at the view screen. You drive the boat to an area of no current, and compare the boat GPS speed to the speed obtained from the paddlewheel. Around here the biggest challenge is to find a place with no tidal current, since water is always moving a little. I drive at right angles to any current and try to do it at slack tide, then compare to reading obtained when moving in the opposite direction. Then you bump the calibration up or down to adjust, it's impossible to get it exactly perfect. As greasy algae builds up on the wheel, readings begin to slide down, so you adjust again in a few weeks. Mine has a habit of stopping entirely so I remove the paddlewheel to clean it regularly, and I have trouble getting close to accuracy +/- 10%. Ultrasound speed sensors apparently are more reliable and accurate, with no moving parts. They require a bigger through-hull, and ultrasound devices are more bulky, which isn't great on a racing sailboat.
Good point, it's a problem I have seen too many times. Of course the best prophylactic is to use dielectric silicone-based grease on the inside rubber part of the boot when you install new wires. Dielectric grease is nonconductive, excluding water and hopefully slowing corrosion that bonds and oxidizes the rubber to the ceramic part of the plug. That doesn't help the guy with the problem at all, since it's too late when you can't get the wire off! At least with the Ram the plug is exposed. It is much worse when the wire leads down a deep hole that you can't reach into, especially if the coil is all together with the boot and you have to replace that, too. If the wire won't come off the plug, you have no choice but to pull and twist until it does come off. I suppose if access is good enough you could try using a dental hook smeared with silicone on the edge of the boot to try and break corrosion, so the boot will slide off more easily, but that could be time consuming. Also on the Ram there are metal heat shields that make access to that area almost impossible. Lisle make a great pair of boot pliers that make tearing the boot less likely. Sometimes you just have to accept the wire won't come off without tearing, and then you're looking at replacing a wire set, too. If there are some good wires left, keep them in your garage since they can be useful for analyzing secondary ignition for coil-on-plug systems, and if you tear another boot in the future you may not need to replace the whole set. The other problem is that sometimes the whole boot won't come off, and if the plug is recessed in a deep hole, the socket may not be able to reach past the boot remnant. In that case, get a very deep 5/8" socket, DON'T use a standard spark plug socket (those have rubber end grips that get in the way). The deep socket will more easily reach past the boot remnant and get enough of a grip on the plug to get it out. Good luck!
I have discovered that you can make your own stainless steel shaft if the old one is corroded and failing. 3/32" stainless tig welding rod is just about the right diameter, and one rod would be a lifetime worth of replacements.
Nicely done! I can only imagine you have a background in electronics assembly/engineering/work instructions, etc. A compliment to how well you explain things and how thorough you are... I have this problem on my boat and I would not venture to simply replace the paddlewheel. However, that might explain when a squirt of WD40 on mine seems to get it running well for a while then back to intermittent. After watching this, I'm confident to replace the wheel. Thanks for the nice vids!
I encourage you to make more marine type videos, you are very good at explaining and easy going. Thank u, and safe selling. Also, if you can make some videos concerning sail boats, which is the best used sailing, that would be great . Thanks again!
Very helpful video! I ordered the replacement paddlewheel "just in case" cleaning the transducer wheel didn't get it working again. I'll go ahead and make the change. Thanks!
Another fantastic and in depth video! Thank you so much for taking the time to go into such detail and in a way even the lay person can understand. I'm dealing with the same issue now on my boat, just waiting for the replacement parts to show up. The person who invented the term "Stainless Steel" clearly never owned a boat that's kept in saltwater! :). Wish I would have known about the 3/32 welding rod before ordering the replacement parts! That's a great tip, especially since it probably wouldn't hurt to replace the shaft every year or so. As I'm sure you know, just a few tenths off on boat speed makes almost all the other data inaccurate as well.
Hi James, it is always nice to hear from you and see your videos. Yup, paddle wheel sensors are a work in progress, I don't know if it is possible to get then as accurate as we want. After I clean the hull, the sensor reads too fast for about 6 weeks, I adjust the software downward, but the next six weeks I'm dialing it back up. Then just before my 6 month haul out I get intermittent freezing. One thing I found useful is to bring a small cup of acetic acid (vinegar) to the boat and soak the paddlewheel and steel shaft in about 1" of that overnight (just the lower paddlewheel, not the whole sensor). I tap the steel shaft out to expose the whole surface area. The next morning residual debris comes off easily with a toothbrush rinse. As you know the computer uses that paddlewheel speed to calculate secondary data like true wind angle, so all those readings are messed up if the paddlewheel is off. One thing I finally realized is that the computer considers the water to be the frame of reference, so in tidal current it does a major calculation to correct for that. So when my paddlewheel is off I get incorrect data for TWA, too. Looking up the mast to use apparent wind angle after all seems pretty good. I'm told that ultrasound speed sensors are better but they require a larger through-hull. By the way, I started hanging a GoPro from the bottom of the mast, for a unique view of the team while racing. My videos are not up to your quality but it is a unique view.
@@spelunkerd Perhaps the one good thing about the paddle wheel being inaccurately slow is it always makes it look like we're in the right current! Playing the currents is critical in our area, even when just cruising and I suspect it's a big part of where you sail also. I have an ultrasound speed sensor that came with the boat which was working fine at first but quickly started either not reading at all or showing wildly inaccurate readings. After talking with some people and doing a lot of research I found about 50% of the time people love the US sensor and say it works all the time, every time. The other 50% of the people had the same bad experience as myself. It's unfortunate I wasn't in the other 50% because it seems like such a great idea. Because the US sensors work by sensing particles in the water I wonder if it depends on the local water particle content? I'd think it wouldn't matter but who knows, maybe it does. I played around trying to diagnose and fix mine for a while but became so frustrated with that one sensor making all the money I spent on the rest of the system basically useless I went back to a traditional paddle wheel. I've been told by a couple reliable people who work in the boat electronics industry that the majority of pro boats and high end teams stick with the paddle wheels and they seem to be in agreement the "Signet Marine" paddle wheel is the best. It requires a different thru hull than the Airmar though. Although I certainly don't fall into the 'pro' or 'high end' category I do plan to switch over to the signet next haul out if for no other reason than because I already spent so much darn $$$ on the instruments I'd prefer to have the most accurate info coming out of it that I can :). Thanks again for your always very detailed and thoughtful tech videos. I'll have to try your acetic acid trick. Lets see those race videos of yours sometime soon!
Impressive and thorough troubleshooting. Thank you for posting.
Thanks for the followup, it was a fun video to make. Another thing worth noting is the fact that some paddlewheels have one magnet every 180 deg, and others (like mine) every 90 deg. If you swap in the wrong kind you'll get speed readings that are so far out they can't be adjusted electronically.
Looks like you got her fixed Dave. Although the pin was rusty and could have caused an issue, one has to wonder if there was an issue going on inside the electronics of the sensor. In any event, all looks good now. And that's one nice looking boat that you got there :)
Thanks for stopping by, Terry. In retrospect I might have sanded the sprocket with a nonferrous abrasive, although I suspect that might not last very long. The metal used for the stainless pin doesn't seem to be great in salt water, although I don't know how old it is.
Thanks for the video I have a similar problem you gave a bit of insight of we’re to start looking
more boat stuff!!! great stuff
My triducer from Mastercraft is $900, ouch; guess I'll try to replace the wheel and hopefully get lucky. Airmar
very good looking Boat ! Just a little rust can cause big problems ..
I love your videos and explanations. They are very informative.
Thanks, man!
Thank you I have the same issue on my triton speed sensor. I now have a sense how to proceed.
thanks for the video.
corrosion the nemesis of boats.
Look forward to more boating related videos. Maybe we will have to use my boat since yours is in such Bristol fashion
Yeah, occult rust even on a stainless part. I might try searching for a cheaper replacement the next time this fails.... Thanks for stopping by, Stephen.
Man I seriously love your videos. Thanks!
What a kind remark, thank you.
This is why I love TH-cam (mixed feeling on parent company Alphabet)! People smarter than me willing to put in the time and effort to help us simpletons. I am having this exact problem with my transducer...registers fine when I take it out and spin it by hand but reads zero when I put it in the water and move the boat...on the face of it, that makes no sense and I was looking at having to replace the entire transducer. Based on the wire splice I found when troubleshooting it appears the previous owner did exactly that.
I'm still not clear on what is going on i.e. what the exact failure mode is. I assume the actual hall effect sensor is in the cylinder of the transducer and that the paddle wheel serves as the external magnet (guessing a magnet in two of the paddle wheel arms and none in the other two). Every time a magnetized paddle wheel arm passes the top of its arc it trips the sensor causing the voltage change demonstrated in this video. All good so far.
But why would that sequence fail in the water but work when out of the water and why would swapping the paddle wheel (or maybe more accurately the paddle wheel axel) fix it? If the paddle wheel spins the magnets in the wheel's arms are passing the hall effect sensor and should be causing a voltage change no matter the driving force...but that is apparently not the case. Further more what effect would the rusty axel shaft have, why would that cause failure? I can see that it would likely slow the wheel down but that should just cause an inaccurate reading, not a zero reading. Why does it cause a zero reading?
The only think I can figure/guess is that the axel is supposed to make an electrical connection w/ the wheel through the axel and the rust inhibits that connection when combined with the water. Is that what is happening? Clearly I'm missing something in how this system works.
Bottom line, thank you for the video, I never would have figured this out. Now if I could just find the correct paddle wheel kit. I have and old (2004 ish) Raymarine ST60 depth instrument and the part number for my Airmar sensor should be on a vinyl tag/label on the cable...but it isn't. The sensor does list a part number on its top cap, 20-399-01 but I haven't been able to cross reference that number and one parts dealer told me that was only the part number for the cap...can't cross-reference paddle wheel from that number. Maybe I'll just go with the welding rod option.
You may find more compelling evidence if you get the boat out of the water. Critters tend to find little crevices to hide in, and I'm guessing your wheel isn't spinning because of mechanical obstruction. By the way, these days I have been removing my paddlewheel, then soaking it, the axle, and the bottom part of the housing overnight in a glass of acetic acid. I do that beside the connection so I don't need to remove wires. Brush off, rinse, and reinstall. Weak acid dissolves the calcium deposits very effectively. One could argue that it will also accelerate rust in the stainless steel axle but I haven't noticed that, yet. Double check to be sure the paddles are oriented to catch the water and spin the correct way.
Very informative. Thank you!
Great video, shipmate. Very informative. Thanks!
Great repair! And a fine looking boat
Hey Max, thanks for stopping by. Gotta love your motorcycle videos! This weekend I was in a hockey tournament with a whole team of paramedics.
Great looking engine you have. I have problems with rust on the flywheel and other wheels on the cam belt. Why is that and what can be done about it. please?
In a salt water environment, any bare metal surface will collect dew from the air overnight and flash rust very quickly. Of course you can grind the rust off and repaint with heat tolerant paint. A quick solution to morning dew is to warm the interior of the boat each night so the ambient temp inside never gets down to the dew point. If you have access to shore power a better solution is to use a dehumidifier, which will produce heat and pull water from the air. Works great, reduces mold, prevents freezing tubing, and protects wood. At my marina the cost is 50 cents a day through the winter.
This seems to be an example of where the electronic, diagnostic troubleshooting was not useful. The speed system measured good both before and after the paddle wheel/axle replacement. How could that be?
The wheel was binding mechanically. I get what you are asking, what's the point of going through the effort. But even a negative result is still valid, you know what's working normally, and you've not found any evidence of a dirty signal or intermittent electrical fault. By proving the electronic system was intact, I was able to replace just the paddlewheel rather than the entire sensor. That's a big deal since new sensors use the NMEA 2000 communication protocol so I'd have to pay for a translator as well, or upgrade the entire system. I got peace of mind that there isn't anything more underlying this problem. And I had fun, too, ha ha.
I see. So the wheel only rotaded at the bench and not in the water. A light sanding with 2000 paper and some oil will give you the old wheel/axle as working spare parts.@@spelunkerd
Well i never, a tiny bit of friction stopped it.
I suppose thats water for you, give it a chance and it creates rust.
I dont suppose that a different pin/bush material could fix it, say nylon bush and pin?
Yeah, that is a good point, I didn't remove the pin to clean it because I didn't expect high quality stainless steel to rust so much. I may have been able to get another year of life out of the wheel by lightly sanding with nonferrous abrasive. I had tried light machine oil and silicone spray before, and those didn't work. Constant exposure to salt water washes light oil away, and heavy oil would impede movement. As it is, by the time I realized it was just a rusted spindle I already had the replacement part.
Perhaps you can make a new nylon bush and nylon pin for next year when it plays up again.
quite difficult to make a call when you don't get conclusive failed test results.
Yes, you're right. That's why I spent so much time with it on the bench, I had a hard time believing it was as simple as a little rust on the spindle. In the end, it's consistently working fine now so I'm confident the problem is solved. Thanks for stopping by!
so the problem was rust?? thanks for the video.
To my surprise, yes. It wasn't noticeable on the bench, the spin resistance was the same as the replacement part, which is why I took the extra effort to prove the other elements of the chain were OK. Thanks for visiting!
Ah, yes, a little sea spray goes along to satisfaction. Happy that you can once again judge your progress reliably.
Thanks, Don. Your remark about arachnoiddotcom was automatically placed by TH-cam in a spam folder, and with my old browser I can't seem to approve it(!). He's got a great little historical description of Olber's paradox there, it was well worth reviewing. I didn't realize he is a sailor, I'll have to spend a little more time there. Cheers.
I wonder if this type of instrument is accurate. How can it be calibrated/
Great question! There is a calibration that one can do through a series of keystrokes at the view screen. You drive the boat to an area of no current, and compare the boat GPS speed to the speed obtained from the paddlewheel. Around here the biggest challenge is to find a place with no tidal current, since water is always moving a little. I drive at right angles to any current and try to do it at slack tide, then compare to reading obtained when moving in the opposite direction. Then you bump the calibration up or down to adjust, it's impossible to get it exactly perfect. As greasy algae builds up on the wheel, readings begin to slide down, so you adjust again in a few weeks. Mine has a habit of stopping entirely so I remove the paddlewheel to clean it regularly, and I have trouble getting close to accuracy +/- 10%. Ultrasound speed sensors apparently are more reliable and accurate, with no moving parts. They require a bigger through-hull, and ultrasound devices are more bulky, which isn't great on a racing sailboat.
Moral of the story is Check the moving parts first.
good info - thanks
You're welcome!
Can you please do a video on getting a stuck boot off of a spark plug on your dodge please and thank you
Good point, it's a problem I have seen too many times. Of course the best prophylactic is to use dielectric silicone-based grease on the inside rubber part of the boot when you install new wires. Dielectric grease is nonconductive, excluding water and hopefully slowing corrosion that bonds and oxidizes the rubber to the ceramic part of the plug. That doesn't help the guy with the problem at all, since it's too late when you can't get the wire off! At least with the Ram the plug is exposed. It is much worse when the wire leads down a deep hole that you can't reach into, especially if the coil is all together with the boot and you have to replace that, too. If the wire won't come off the plug, you have no choice but to pull and twist until it does come off. I suppose if access is good enough you could try using a dental hook smeared with silicone on the edge of the boot to try and break corrosion, so the boot will slide off more easily, but that could be time consuming. Also on the Ram there are metal heat shields that make access to that area almost impossible. Lisle make a great pair of boot pliers that make tearing the boot less likely. Sometimes you just have to accept the wire won't come off without tearing, and then you're looking at replacing a wire set, too. If there are some good wires left, keep them in your garage since they can be useful for analyzing secondary ignition for coil-on-plug systems, and if you tear another boot in the future you may not need to replace the whole set. The other problem is that sometimes the whole boot won't come off, and if the plug is recessed in a deep hole, the socket may not be able to reach past the boot remnant. In that case, get a very deep 5/8" socket, DON'T use a standard spark plug socket (those have rubber end grips that get in the way). The deep socket will more easily reach past the boot remnant and get enough of a grip on the plug to get it out. Good luck!
spelunkerd thanks for the advice