What is a wineskin? (Bota bag) - Allure and maintenance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2017
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With my computer down I decided to share a personal passion with you guys. As you can tell I live next to a construction site, an airport and many street vendors and lots of trees with flock of loud birds.
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The Sun also rises. Thank you.
Sam just read it
I'd actually been looking into getting one of these for going on hikes as a waterskin next year..when low and behold my aunt got me one for Christmas this year. It's not made of leather or anything, it's one of those plastic ones but I still appreciate that she got me something I'd actually been wanting without knowing it.
Those are the best gifts indeed. A plastic one does resist the elements better and if you are concern about aftertaste, use some baking soda and water.
@@MarceloACFM Thanks for the tip.
I got a very authentic one from Spanish Door. It vastly improves the taste of cheap wine too.
Very informative man thank you
I’ve had a las tres Z.Z.Z. Bota for about ten years and I’ve had long periods of use followed by periods of non-use and never had any issues with the pitch as long as I follow the instructions. However, I am curious about one thing. I think the longest I’ve ever gone with a single wine without finishing it was 3 weeks. I didn’t sense the wine turning in that time at all, but I was wondering if there is a common knowledge about how long wine can last in these before turning? Could I go a month? 6 weeks? 8 weeks? Just curious….this is great for taking out by my pool in the summer. And keeping wine in the office for a little sip with lunch. I’ve also taken it on cruises before, great for water on shore excursions.
Gracias por el vid ..👌🏼
DANNYGZERO De nada!
Funny how many complain about Coleman's bottle for wine. It wasn't designed for wine, just water. Something that resembled a leather water bottle that people had seen in a movie or at a renaissance show. Not accurate but when it came out not only was it legal to hold drinking water but easy to purchase in all areas that sold Coleman products.
Personally I don´t like them for water either, since they give off the same bad taste to any liquid you put in them, also the overall quality of the materials is very low, compared to other bladder type vessels, perhaps, as you mention their wide availability combined with similar looks to the classic bota is what made them popular.
@@MarceloACFM They have the same problem all plastic containers with a lid have to begin with and why I prefer stainless steel. The taste though on most of the canteens I have has been removed by putting a fairly strong mix of water and lemon or lime juice in them and let sit for 12 to 24 hours. Sometimes you have to repeat the process. Aluminum is worse. Someday I am going to take one and line it with brewers pitch. Maybe that will help it. Cheers
@@57WillysCJ I hear you. My order of preference is glass first and stainless steel as second. The pitch lined vessels I use when I can tolerate an extra flavour, other than plastic. I agree 100% with you on aluminum. Let me know how the experiment with brewer's pitch goes. I am very curious.
Very good video, I have one question. I bought a wineskin from Las tres recently new and when it came i followed instructions and filled it with wine but all around the top is wine not leaking but wet the skin purple. Do you know if this is okay?
From what you describe, wetness but no leaking, it seems like the area around the top, I assume is the neck, near the cap, must have lost some pitch, so the wine is permeating the actual skin and slowly leaching through. I would recommend emptying the bota, and applying heat around that area while rolling it, but since this is close to the mouth, be extra careful, use a pen light if you can to try and spot the pitch, the idea is that it makes a seal around the part where the skin and the cap meet. Let me know how it goes.
When you store the bota, do you squeeze the air out so there is only the wine? So that the wine is in contact with the entire inner surfaces of the bota?
Yes, indeed that is the case, just make sure there is enough wine inside for this to occur evenly, lay it horizontally and flip it from time to time.
Can you use old, unused wineskin? I have one from my grandmother and I think it's been sitting in her closet for more than 40 years but it still looks good.
I would say yes, if it has been closed there should be no mold, but just in case, go through the regular cleaning procedure that I described and then check for smells / taste. Again, the biggest threat would be mold, but a good vinegar rinse should take care of it.
@@MarceloACFM how much vinegar should I use? Do I use regular white vinegar? Thanks a lot!
can you use a natural soap or antibacterial soap to wash the inside out or would this cause a bad flavor?
Hi there. I would not use soap, even if mild, mainly because of what you mention flavor wise, but also because the lye may affect the pitch, tho some manufacturers say a few drops of lye are ok.
I would not recommend any kind of anti-bacterial, mold is what you dont want, and in these cases the good bacteria as they are known, like the acetobacter that makes vinegar, are the best defense against fungal growth, so the 200ml of wine that should be kept in the bota for storage purposes should be enough, but remember to change it periodically, also some manufacturers recommend cognac for storage, however if a lot of time has passed and you experience some mold buildup, you can do a water rinse, followed by another rinse with something like cognac or rum and then wine.
all wine boxes that I have known work with the use of plastic sacks
Wine boxes as in the ones made of tetra pack layered material?
Can you tell me where I can buy a replacement bladder for my bota bag
Hello. A traditional bota bag is the "bladder" itself, so the replacement would be a new one in most cases. I know that some manufacturers can add more hot pitch to an existing bota to reseal it, but if your bota is a modern one that has a latex or silicone bladder, pretty much like a camelbak/platypus, then the best option is to look for the maker and order a replacement. In the worst case scenario, you can always buy a comercial wine bag and adapt it to the mouthpiece of your bag, keep in mind that the shape won´t be the same and there may be some fold inside so more attention to cleaning will be needed. Let me know what brand and type your bota is and I may be able to offer more help.
Is there a way to desinfect a wineskin (I don’t know with vodka maybe)? I’ve seen a couple of them to sell but second hand, so I wanted to know if I should completely avoid it or if there’s a way to get it reusable and safe.
That is a very good question. Wineskins are by nature not sterile and only meant to delay fermentation so the wine you put in wont turn into vinager faster than desired. They do this by reducing the contact the wine has with air and the pine resin that has natural anti-microbial properties. Now with wineskins that are left with wine inside of them for a long period of time the thing you want to watch out for is mold, but this is very easy to clean, you can use some ¨cheap¨wine or my personal recomendation, live apple cider vinegar, and I say live, because what you want to do is balance the biome in the bota and the non harmful bacteria to kill the harmful ones. You could use pasteurized vinegar, but it may take a few washes. Harder drinks like vodka would actually be overkill and some bota makers advice against it, since they can act as solvents and damage the pine resin. So my recommendation is to check the bota you want to buy for mold, follow your nose, smell the bota from a distance without inhaling directly from it, but don´t worry if it is a bit moldy, use some vinegar in it and then rinse it with wine and it should be fine.
ACFM Creations on Earth Thank you so much for your answer!
@@mevebelanger Any time!
Hey there! I want to use this for water, I read your comment reply from a few years ago about mold growth with water vs wine.
If you rinsed it with vinegar and used a cheap wine or brandy occasionally like once a month or so would this be okay? I also get what your saying about tap water having chemicals in it, do you thin using tap water at all would be damaging to it?
I am worried about latex adding a chemical taste, and prefer naturally sourced products for drinking.
I am looking at Spanish Door, ZZZ, and Peregrino Brands. Any opinion on which is the best quality? I found the look of the ZZZ seal with the red tape to appear lower quality than the leather on the Spanish Door and Peregrino brands. Worried about leaking at the neck.
Would love your opinion.
Thankyou!
Hello! I think your idea of rinsing it with vinegar and storing it with cheap wine is great, I would only recommend the vinegar to be something organic, not the highly acidic stuff, not to damage the pitch lining.
As for the latex, it may taste/smell like medical equipment, but I don´t know, since the one I have has the traditional pitch, but to be sure, go with your gut and get the non latex one.
Lastly, the red tape seal on my ZZZ one has not failed in all these years, so it should be safe to get that one. I have seen some designs from Spanish Door and I do like them better for purely aestetichal reasons, specially the one that has the wooden spout, made from olive tree, tho that one does not seal, like the modern ones.
Let me know how it goes.
@@MarceloACFM Thankyou for your response! I have decided to go with the Spanish door bota bag, as I also prefer the aesthetic. They also can do custom images or text. I like the wooden spout but its not quite as practical for modern purposes.
My main goal is for water but I will put wine into it and filtered or spring water mostly. Hopefully it lasts for like 2-3 generations!
I will keep you posted, it will probably take 2-3 weeks for it to arrive but I will let you know :)
Awesome! I am curious about your findings, specially how water would taste.Take care and enjoy the bota.@@scarletxoxo6757
Okay so I got my own bota bag!
I ordered it from Spanish Door and got the traditional curved 1.5 lt. They even were able to customize it with a personalized message on the side for a small extra charge at my request. It is made of high quality material and constructed really well! The tripple Z one' s come with like some sort of red tape around the mouthpiece which I thought would be kinda cheap and ugly. This one has nicely finished leather around the nozzle that is sewn tightly and looks great!
The strap is also in my opinion better than the triple ZZZ as they just have a red fiber cord while the Spanish Door bota bags come with a matching leather strap which is better.
It came prepped for immediate use. So I didn't have to use any heat or rub the resin around at all, just rinsed with water and good to go! The resin inside is like vegetable oil, spruce sap, and bee wax mix of some secret recipe. I added wine for a the first couple days to flavor and absorb any bad taste. However I did taste water from it before this and it tasted a tiny bit weird but not bad at all. After a couple days with wine I rinsed it and filled with water. Tastes totally normal. No weird aftertaste or anything, other than a bit of wine taste left over which went away after a couple days.
It doesn't leak at all and is super comfortable to wear.
My new favorite thing I own.
@@MarceloACFM
That sounds great! Looks like it exceded your expectations. I´m really happy for you, having quality things to use in the activities one enjoys is something to be trasured in life. Don´t hesitate to contact me again if you have more questions down the line!@@scarletxoxo6757
I just purchased a zzz wineskin off ebay(might be older)- when filled, It seems to seep (it gets wet spots) a little- perhaps the pitch is separated as you described. Is there a way to reset the pitch? thanks for your video
There is a good chance to fix it by applying heat. I have used a hair dryer, since a heat gun would be too hot and could damage the skin. The whole procedure is lenghty and requires a lot of patience, so make sure to have a good audiobook or podcast ready, with headphones of course ;) Apply heat gently and evenly over the affected areas and roll the bota as if it were a chicken in a rotissery, the goal is to melt the pitch just enough so it expands and moves to cover the spots, some manufacturers also recommend to massage the melted pitch until relocated over the affected spot. Blow it full and let the bota cool off by rolling it, then try it with wine again (keep a box/bag of cheap wine at hand).
If this fails I know some manufacturers offer re-pitching, but it may not be necessary, you can also use sunlight or your home´s heater, but I rather use a controlable heat source to prevent scalding.
Let me know how it goes!
What did they use for the sealing caps before plastic caps came along?
Originally during the early 19th century, pitch like the one from the bota bags was used to seal jars, pretty much like modern canning, but that method was not fast enough for mass production so lead lined cans were introduced, leading to lead poisoning. Think of the Franklin expedition.
@Marcus Maximus Yeah, they used wood for the caps and pitch for the inner lining, eventually the wooden caps were replaced by bakelite. The one I showed has a bakelite cap and black pitch lining.
@Marcus Maximus Indeed!
Hello, I just bought a second hand bota bag off eBay. How can I tell weather it is pitch or latex inside??? The seller could not specify.
I would try to peek inside with a pen light, the pitch ones are glossy black. I don´t have experience with latex ones but I would assume they have the natural color of latex which is between milky white and very light yellow.
Where do you recommend buying a Good Bota bag?
Thanks for asking! You cannot go wrong by getting a bota made in Spain. While there are many small local shops all around the country, there are 2 makers of prominence that seem to ship internationally. "Las Tres ZZZ" which is the brand of the one I showed in the video and "Jesus Blasco". The later one makes a vintage style Bota with a wooden mouthpiece that is advertised for reenactors and seems very interesting.
Here are some links.
www.lastreszzz.com/index.php?lang=1
www.mibotadevino.com/bota-de-vino-antigua/bota-de-vino-brocal-de-madera-1-litro-pez-detail
Amigo, este video es muy interesante. Creo que voy a perir por una bota como un regalo por mi cumpleaños . Perdonme por mi mal español.
Tu español no está nada mal. Una bota es un excelente regalo de cumpleaños, especialmente si te gusta experimentar con sabores del vino. Salud!
is it possible to use wineskins to hold ale or cider?
Most bota manufacturers warn against putting carbonated beverages in their vessels, tho I heard some spaniards do put cider in their wineskins, so just make sure is not carbonated.
@@MarceloACFM okay, thanks mate
@@rhodesianwojak2095 Any time!
Thank you for your video.i really appreciate your job.we really still made goat skins in Yemen.All Bedouins made goat skins for cool water and make water very delicious. we still use it every day. i am confused what is the right word ..wine skin or goat skin. or water skin.. or bata.
I am Ali
Hello Ali. Thank you for your input! My guess would be that the practice is tied in with semi and nomadic cultures around the mediterranean and the fertile crescent, given the arid and or semi-arid conditions. I would also say that the name can change and it does not have to be set in stone, "bota" is just how the Spanish call them, they also use the word "odre" but that generally refers to a larger container made with the whole skin of the animal to hold more liquids for caravans or festivities.
I am very curious to know what kind of sealant pitch you use in Yemen to waterproof the goatskin, since according to the bota makers it has to be different from the one used to make wineskins. I guess it has to do with how each liquid reacts with the leather. I am not too sure, but can you describe the taste of the water? ;)
Hi Ali I am looking for goat skin water bottle can u help me I am from India Cell +917010858652 WhatsApp
ali ali hi, how much do they cost & are they widely available?
@@muffaddalsodawala1041 latienda.com sells them
@@AM-kw7xu latienda.com sells them
How to put back the plastic lining inside
If your bota is the kind that has a plastic bladder insile, like the coleman brand, I would suggest using a dull pointed object like a pencil from the side of the eraser to push the bag in, very slowly of course.
@@MarceloACFM thanks g
Please direct me to an real authentic animal bladder bota bag. The pitch filled imprint more than any Plastic taste.
Las Tres ZZZ from Spain is a good one, the one I talked about in the video is from them,.
@@MarceloACFM do they have an internal bladder not the clipped hair and pine pitch?
@@mylesharvey6488 They use the traditional hair and pine pitch and also sell versions lined with latex, you would have to specify which one you prefer. This is their website in English lastreszzz.com/en/
@@MarceloACFM then I do not want. I want animal bladder lined.
@@mylesharvey6488 I hear you, I am not sure where to find one like that or the treatment process.
oye las paletas de Manga!!!!
Instead of wine, could you store it with water in it instead?
That is a very good question indeed. This particular bota is not meant to carry water, specially modern tap water that contains chlorine and damages the inner pitch lining that is made of mostly pine resin and other vegetable material, said material is also prone to rot in the presence of water due to bacteria overgrowth. Now some bacteria is not bad, since they are the ones that give us wine and vinegar, but as with wine and vinegar you want to maintain a balance of good bacteria VS. mold, water makes mold thrive and that could be unhealthy. The mild alcohol that wine has prevents molding. So if you want a traditional water container, most bota manufacturers make versions that use natural latex that is resistant to water, also for people allergic to latex, they make full surgical grade scillicone ones, but that is closer to a camelbak. The allure of the pine resin bota is the aroma and flavour that adds to the whine, which is something that most people dont want in their water, since there is the notion that water is suppossed to be tasteles, but if you want a bota for water my advice would be to get a latex or scillicone one and put some drops of herbal infusion in it, just remember to rinse it before storing ;)
@Marcus Maximus Thank you! for this interesting question. They would have been drinking water from it and as in the case of the wineskin, the sealant lining itself has some anti microbial properties, that and the fact that they were not meant to store water for long periods, basically just the transit from one water source to another and as you mention the bags were replaced once they reached a certain wear and tear. Usually with a bag like this they should never be left to dry out, since that can cause the skin to crack. While I am not sure for waterskins, I think that there must be some kind of keeper fluid that they would put in for priods of storage, that could be a mild alcoholic beverage or boiled water with vinegar, but that is my guess.
@Marcus Maximus Yeah, vinegar is a very good sanitary agent and already a "by product" of storing wine for long periods of time, so no loss there.
You cure a new Bota with aguardiente for a spell, right?
Generally, stronger, distilled liquors are not recommended, but I would say they can be used to rinse and sanitize the interior, just don´t leave it sitting in there, I would recommend vinegar instead, it would still kill the mold and undesired microbes.
Can I put beer in the Bota or not a good idea?
Beer and carbonated drinkns in general, are corrosive, due to their acidity, that is why bota manufacturers advise against using them, since they can start to dissolve the pitch lining of the wineskin. So, not a good idea, sorry :( I do love beer tho ;)
@@MarceloACFM thank you bro, glad I found your vid!!
Just use the bottle
Sure, at the table we generally use the bottle, but on the move like a hike or picnic the wineskin really shines, is easier to carry, not as fragile and most importantly, it adds to the flavour of the wine ;)
ACFM Creations on Earth i am more of a hash guy so i don't encounter problems when i smoke a joint because you can do that everywhere but you can't do that with a glass bottle so now i know why people need this wine skin, drink up and cheers!
True hehehe. Enjoy and cheers to you too!
@@MarceloACFMAs I was a child/teenager, I had such a bota. Even after weeks of usage it added the smell of a goat shed to the wine, therefore I am very sceptical of your assertion, that it adds a good taste to the wine.
@@trabouliste1037 Well as with any product, there are different levels of quality and I can only speak for the ones I have tried, most likely you had a faulty one. If the skin is properly tanned it sould not give that smell off, also, the wine should be in contact with the pitch lining, not the "leather" part, maybe the lining tore off in one part and there was a mold growth and the skin rotted?