EthAnswers Blade Drift myths, Why Bandsaws Should Never Drift!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2017
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Stockroom Supply's own Ethan Moore goes through why the Little Ripper completely eliminates the infamous bandsaw blade drift problem.
The Little Ripper - stockroomsupply.com/collectio...
Finally someone discussing bandsaw use who actually has a thorough working knowledge of the machine and its sheer mechanical simplicity. Hats off to you buddy. And thank you.
As you say, “The real problem is when you want to cut a board straight down the middle. Regardless of what you do, when the wood begins to stress, inevitably it will push against the fence and bind the blade...therefore causing the drift!” If you attach an auxiliary fence which ends at the front of your blade, the stressed wood can spread out without pushing against the fence and causing drift.
Good one with the second fence ending at the sawing point so stresses will not cause the blade to bend.
I totally agree, my method is I leave the end of the fence just back past the centre of the blade, the same on my table saw! Never had any problems
After watching this a few times and using my bandsaw, I find you can get the same results with a fence.
The key is 1) slower feed rate (especially with less tension), and 2) rip with the cutoff on the opposite side of the fence.
Your hold-down jig is basically a fence with the all but the top and bottom (image a fence without the bulk of the middle).
When you push the stock and put pressure, you deflect the blade and that is what makes it wander. When you have the veneer cutoff towards the fence, it has no where to go.
It’s like cutting a case-hardened board on the table saw. After feeding it just past the splitter I add a shim to prevent the binding. The same could be done on the bandsaw.
Point #2 seems like the crucial point, especially.
Look I’m a sawyer and let me ask you this:
What’s the most you’ve seen a board spread apart while being ripped? I’ve seen stuff spread 3+” both verticals horizontal and a compound of both. Using a fence under these circumstances will lead to the blade drifting due to being half dull.
I use my fence all the time! Blades get thrown out all the time. Part of the game… all these guys literally can’t afford to Woodwork without blade drift. It’s all in the blade and like ethen said binding it under its own fence is number one cause
Damn, this is a game changer. It’s all about how you feed the material, everything else is secondary.
So well explained. Thank you! My bandsaw drift has been doing my head in! The winds of change are jingle jangling in my work shop now!
FANTASTIC video. I spent hours and hours fiddling with adjustments, including the purchase of new blade guides, blades. Nothing could make my saw cut strait...... Until I understood what this video says.
I'm not convinced I need a Little Ripper, though I wouldn't mind having one, I do appreciate you debunking some bandsaw myths and giving us some good insight into what is going on while resawing.
Thank you, I've been saying that for years. I've never had blade drift I set up my bandsaw correctly.
Despite having (almost) everything perfectly set up, I was getting severe drift of the blade into the fence. This was cured, finally, by rotating the _table_ on the trunnion so the fence (and miter slot) was parallel to the blade's cut.
So I had some doubt about this rig so I looked forward to seeing it in action upfront and close at the WACO S.W.A.T. show last week. Folks this thing really works and works well. Ethan's explanations and his answers to questions were spot on and accurate. I bought the mini mill and circle cutting mill package and am looking forward to receiving it and doing my own testing.
Excellent Video! Super informative Ethan, the information I just obtained is going to totally change my way of thinking when it comes to re sawing my boards. The Little Ripper is awesome! Must Have! Thank you for taking the time to make this video.. I look forward to future videos to come.
Thanks Laney!
You're as ignorant as this joker-
@@horacerumpole6912 great explanation. How is he wrong?
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Amazing tip, now I know why, yesterday my band saw cut skew due to the fence, thanks bud.
I like the bowl that you made that was really good I'm sure they appreciate the present thank you
Fantastic. This explains why I get terrible results doing it the common way. Thank you for thinking outside the box.
Thanks for your feedback Joel. I really can't take all the credit. My Dad Paul Moore designed the jig about 12 years ago. Since then I've updated and improved it significantly but still it was his stroke of genius.
Awesome vid. Quickly getting addicted to your channel, thx man.
Ethan - great explanation - I agree with the logic, interesting point of view.
Fantastic jig mate. Makes complete sense why the deflection occurs when trying to hold the larger side with just the hand, of course the deflection will push your hand away giving the illusion of drift.
Going to have to invest in one of these beauties.
Cheers mate.
Thanks Bill! Glad you like the product. :)
I have watched so many videos saying so many ways to correct drift, this makes so much sense, I will give it a go, I am confidant it will work, thanks for a brilliant and common sense tutorial😀👍
Thanks Barry! I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
I wish I could take you for a beer for this! Thank you sir for both the competence AND the bravery to do this to ones own saw for unbelievers to see! I have stuff to do now!
Wonderful video presentation and very informative. I haven't been this excited after watching a video in a long time. Mike
Thanks Drew! Glad you enjoyed it :)
I'm just so excited that you are using a Rikon saw. I just bought a model 10-325 used, for $140. The guy I got it from didn't know anything about how to fix it. (Someone broke the upper trunnion so all I have to do is replace it.)
Videos are great keep 'em coming.
I have been having issues with this for sometimes… Was about to sell this bandsaw. Now I understand. Thanks so much !
Love this! I was trying to explain this to someone the other day and they said I was crazy to think like this! Awesome video!
BRILLIANT!
I love it - you explain the ACTUAL REALITY of what's going on.
: )
Nice to see a little evidence! Presumably, if you use the fence to cut off a thin strip on the outside of a block of wood, it should cut straight as the thin piece will bend much more than the thicker piece next to the fence? Love to see a more detailed version of this video.
Fantastic demo, thanks👍
Excellant demonstration! Who could argue with this?
I never thought of the why things drift? I have never had a problem with drift unless I forced the material through the blade. I Never force my saw to cut faster than it wants to! Nice explanation!
Excellent info mate .makes perfect sense to me .
Eth you are the MAN! I’ll be ordering one of those for my shop when I get home 👹
Very interesting - definitely learnt something new today!
THANK YOU!
I bought a used bandsaw, and it was drifting to the left like crazy.. My instinct was that it was simply cutting less on the right saw, but being the millennial that I am, I had to get instructions on TH-cam how to adjust a bandsaw..
So I was fiddling with guide blocks, blade tension and how the blade was running on the wheels. Finally I gave up...
Your explanation made things click for me, the blade is a laser beam, unless you touch a non cutting part of it!
With that in mind I went back to investigate.. Turns out the teeth set to the right were quite damaged, I guess the previous owner might have run into a nail.
After setting the teeth and sharpening the blade, my bandsaw cuts straight!
I've seen your demo at Woodstock several times and I have to say I am very impressed by this bandsaw accessory.
Take care
Rob
Thanks Rob!
Hope to see you there next year.
I'm sure I won't miss it
I'm sure I won't miss it
excellent demo and explanation!
Wow, that's quite an eye opener, never would have thought, low blade tension, top guide much too high but perfectly straight cuts. Of course all of this is out the window if your blade is warped or dull.
Good stuff. I now know where I have been going wrong. Thanks...
welp you sold me, lol, thought to be pro you had to have the gullet in the middle of the crown. Thank you for taking time to make this video!!!
This vid was an absolute eye opener.
Absolutely brilliant tutorial enjoyed it very much I have decided to call you the wizard thank you, John
Wish I had watched this 5years ago ! You made your point very clear! WOW !
I bought the Little Ripper and it is great to use and works just as he has shown.
Great video and explanation. What if I want to cut stock longer than about 24" with with Little Ripper? It seems like you'd need an enormous track to make something like a dining table or bedframe.
Okay…. Wow! I’ve learned so much in such a short time!
you just proved your theory 100% correct? Kudos
Wow, great video!
He's preventing the wood from opening up (at least on the side clamped to the jig), so this prevents the blade from being pushed over (called drift - which is what causes the set on the teeth to get changed). Once the set on the teeth are changed, it will never cut straight again. The other side is free to open up and will not affect the set on the teeth because no binding is occurring.
So 2 keys things are happening here:
1. The jig is holding the wood firmly in place so it cannot move (which it normally would because of the internal stresses being released unless you have an exceptional piece of wood)
2. The wood is not binding the blade and wrecking the tooth set .
Great video. I had "blade drift" and after changing a dead dull blade, the drift went away. I purchased the saw used and was using the blades that came with it. Invested in some new blades, the issue went away.
Thanks Mark!
Sometimes a new blade goes a long way!
Ethan
I'm trying to think of what more you could have done to the machine to make it cut wrong. .......nope nothing comes to mind. ....nice demonstration of your point. Thanks. 🤣😂😁😀😎
Could he have placed the blade on the front of the wheel instead of the back?
@@cheekymonkey6791 what about teeth at back lol
You just blew my mind! That was awesome! I've waisted so much time trying fix my band saw cuts with constant adjustments. I look forward to trying this.
th-cam.com/video/vNdrkmx6ehI/w-d-xo.html
Great vid. Thanks bro
I make it a point to press the wood tightly against the fence, lest I get drift. Didn't know why until now. Thanks!
Gotta love those new Rikon guid bearings they are so great.
Why dont you set the height lower to match what you are cutting?
I thought he was going to say "When I did this at a woodworking show a riot broke out", something like that. It seemed kind of shocking! I've got kind of used to the idea that a band saw might cut at a certain angle and you just have to deal with it. I have to go back to the beginning here, never really thought it through, and certainly never did radical stuff like loosening the guides!
That´s pretty good information, thanks for this one :)
I think the general issue is, if you use a fence and your tracking is off, the probability of binding is greatly increased. I've seen tracking drive the blade toward the fence. If your saw doesn't have a dolly like yours then the fence is required and so the tracking has to be perfectly straight to prevent binding.
In your example you reduce the tension and the tracking. If you have a tensioned blade then the tracking has more of an impact as it stays more "true" to the tracked angle. Try with a tense blade and tracking off.
Hope to see you at the Indianapolis show next month!
This video is so controversial yet so compelling. It's the kind of thing that will live in mind rent free, provoking me when I try to sleep. Great video, thanks, but this will bug me for a while 😃
So mine drifts, how do I fix it? Is it just an old blade?
Hey Ethan, thank you for such a thought provoking video. I have the same bandsaw you used and I experience exactly the same problem whwn resawing, but when I cut small pieces it doesn’t drift. Both cuts using the fence as a reference so how would you explain rhat I only get blade drifting when resawing? Any advice on how to fix it if I don’t
Have the same cool jig you used?
Excellent video, info and demo!.....Snodgrass is still the best though😬
I'm glad you liked the video! Me and Alex are good friends but we sure have different opinions when it comes to bandsaws :)
That was really helpful, thanks. What's that accessory that's holding the timber?
Love that Clamping Rig !
Thanks Vince! Glad you enjoyed the video
Where can I buy that wonderful sled jig?
I always thought you were supposed to take off the veneer on the side away from the fence, which would allow it to open up like you show here, correct? This is a cool video and interesting product. :)
Joseph, you are right. It is always best to cut the thin side off away from the fence. The real problem when using a fence is when you want to cut a board straight down the middle. Regardless of what you do when that wood begins to stress inevitably it will push against then fence and bind the blade...therefor causing the drift!
Thanks for the comment! Glad you enjoyed the video :)
My world has been turned upside down, and the Truth Revealed! I didn't know this because the people I learned from didn't know either - we repeat the same myths, handing them down from generation to generation.
One way to look at the Little Ripper is similar to a table saw crosscut sled, but designed for a bandsaw. In both cases, the cutting path is based on a machined track to guide the wood into the blade, rather than using the (unreliable) edge of the wood as a guide. Call it a ripping sled?
The product costs more than my crappy bandsaw, but this at least lets me know what part of my technique I can change.
Thanks for posting!
I watched this video. Put a new coarser blade on my old Ferm bandsaw and cut a thin layer of hardwood away furthest from the guide block. It worked a treat. If I cut the thin layer close to the guide block it drifts! Point proven. Thanks.
In this video do you set the lower guides the traditional way? Thanks
I 2nd that. Excellent video!
I still cant make my 14" delta Bandsaw track properly even after days of tweeking!
Me neither.☹ Even after watching 20 bandsaw experts and trying everything suggested. I think my bandsaw was made on the first morning following a long party weekend.
@@ndo342 I have put at least 3 hours, 9 days of adjusting to my bandsaw using 4 of the leading expert advices - but its still drifting.
love it will buy one after i get a band saw. Hopefully 14BX
Sounds good! The 14bx is a very fine saw.
Anyone know where I can find the guide poster like what is stuck on the inside of the top wheel door
WOW.....
Thanks.
Wouldn't the fence work if you put the thick side towards the fence? The veneer would then bow away from the cut into the air, thus no drift, same as with that expensive contraption you have.
I think it does, but the fence doesn't move along with the wood, you have to constantly apply the pressure from the wood to the fence the entire time, this is essentially a fence that moves with the wood staying square the entire time.
@@Dhammawitt that's why you use magnetic finger boards.
@@AlphaBlkHrt Which would only work for wood that's the same thickness. The fence side has to be evenly flat as well as the featherboard side. People who cut raw woods into tonewoods this wouldn't be a solution.
@@Dhammawitt I made a fixture similar to this a few days after getting my Jet 14" (+ 6" riser kit), knowing I would save some cost if I could get larger, rougher pieces of my tonewoods, or even just billet. I watched the Alex Snodgrass bandsaw videos, and did a little digging/researching, while building my fixture, which is a bit more robust, because my engineering/design/workholding/fixturing background, and most of my education in this area, was designing it myself, building it myself, setting everything up, prove-out myself, and run it until we had our significantly significant sample, so we could provide Cap Study, SPC data, etc. to our customer, and that could be 100 pcs. or 1500 pcs., and I was ALWAYS working with metal, not wood. Could be brass, aluminum, any of 30 varieties of steel, bell bronze, any of a dozen stainless steels, or any of two dozen DTM super-alloys used in deep well oil and gas drilling, or aerospace. There's similarities and differences, but rigidity of the set up, proper alignment, and proper set up of tooling, machine, and workpiece matters. It just does. This guy has said some things that are very true, some things that are misleading, and a demonstration like this really doesn't give me useful information... unless I plan to set up my saw like this.
The workholding fixture he makes and sells, or my workholding fixture, is essentially like running a fence opposite side a fence normally runs, with a good grip on the wood, and put the thin cut away from the fence. It's a good strategy, but a good set up of the machine, the fixture, the workpiece, these things DO matter. And I don't own a set of featherboards, for exactly the reason you said. The pieces used to make a solid body guitar or Bass spend very little of that building process time as squared off pieces where a featherboard does you any good. And a 1 inch tall featherboard trying to hold an 8 in tall piece of ziricote or cocobolo billet as it is resawn into the pieces that I need, is probably just going to be 20 minutes of work that just cost me a lot of money and made me pieces I have to find a use for somewhere other than where I was planning to be using them.
@@Metalbass10000 I was resawing the other night, what would really be helpful is a quicker way of aligning and adjusting the wood. I used the little ripper which really holds the wood well but once I see that it's not perfectly perpendicular to the blade it gets hard to adjust. I know there's something out there I can use but I haven't quite put my finger on it. Basically I could attach the wood to this device that has fine tuning built in and then attach it to the little ripper. It's not too bad the way it is but I hate wasting any wood.
I feel like I just found Jesus!
So much was revealed in ten minutes. My mind is blown. Thanks!
Thanks for the comment! Common sense or traditional thinking can lead to some pretty amazing things!
I wasted a pile of money on a fancy Laguna saw trying to get great cuts, not to mention replacing ceramic guides...gotta figure out how to stop my blade from binding. thnx buddy
Can't you avoid binding the blade by cutting from the right side of the stock vs left?
Ethan, why would a curved resaw guide not accomplish the same thing, as it is only applying pressure to the workpiece right next to the blade? The wood movement is deflecting against nothing, and therefore not pushing against the fence, and therefore not applying lateral pressure to the blade. As long as the cut is roughly parallel to the blade itself so the tail of the blade stays within the kerf, then no drift.
Also, when you say that the lateral pressure "dulls" the left side of the blade, are you saying that it's actually damaging the blade, or that it's just making the left side less effective in that moment?
Simple like that....fantastic.
Greetings from London Eth! As I understand, you are saying that by placing a sideways force on the wood, you are pushing the blade sideways so that it is forced into a curve throughout the height of the cut. It's easy to see this would cause chafing of the blade, thus leading to burning. And you added that drift comes about because of the blade being more sharp on the side opposite the fence. Kind of makes sense to me. But my question is this. Surely if the blade is not tensioned enough, when you place a direct forward force on the wood into the blade, it will still bend side to side. In the same way that if you drive a boat backwards, you need to hold the rudder tight, as it will tend to immediately go one way or the other. Won't this do the same thing? I'm saying your theory doesn't seem to disprove the "correct setting of blade on wheel", but adds to it. Saying that, maybe the force towards the fence (i.e. your theory of what causes wood to come away from fence) greatly outweighs the effect that others describe... either way - informative video and I love how you invite debate!
p.s. I've only used a bandsaw once, so I have no practical experience - but I have just bought a second hand one and plan to understand as much as possible before I start to use it!
Honestly, for me I was able to eliminate drift on my Laguna LT18 using 1/2" to 1" bands by placing the band at the center of the crown on the upper wheel. This adjustment on this saw is extremely easy. I've owned two generations of the LT18 over the past 20 years and so I really can't comment on what drift is like on a smaller saw with more narrow bands. I'm also very careful in all aspects of setting up my saw and I find I must clamp both ends of the fence on this saw because the aluminum fence really flexes quite a bit. If I don't clamp both ends of the fence, I really have problems with what looks like drift. Until the past couple of years, I adjusted for drift in the commonly acceptable methods and they worked for me, too.
Thats great Mark! I'm happy you are having such good success. What I have found is as long as you eliminate the side pressure of the blade you do not have to be careful with any setup at all. That is what I did my best to show in the video.
I just learned something new! 😁
Dear Ethan
Can you please tell me if the little ripper come's with all the tracking Thank You Malcolm
Love it. I like controversial views, I hold a few myself. You’ve made your case. Good job.
This is quite amazing, do you make it for grizzly g0513x2bf?
You need to have a rip style fence that ends approximately at the blade in order to avoid binding the wood between the blade
How can anyone disagree when you just proved your theory 100% correct?
Well, here's why : th-cam.com/video/vNdrkmx6ehI/w-d-xo.html Each one prove their theory 100% correct but contradict each other ! The question is set for good if YOU do your personal testing.
@@Onlygloo To be fair, that guy says "by centring the blade, we can count on a dead straight cut" - surely anyone with an inquisitive or sceptical mind will be unconvinced by a statement like that?
I'm with Eth - what he says makes total sense!
@@Onlygloo I agree with @Mat Smith - We can't assume a dead on cut by centering the blade, especially when this video shows that you can get a center cut. However, whether or not the table tracks properly is a thought to ponder. Perhaps both have their merits. I agree with you, personal testing is the only way to go. My father hated bandsaws because of that.
@@Onlygloo Eth demonstrates his points. The other video says blade on front of wheel will walk one way, back of wheel will walk the other. He didn't demonstrate. Saying "if x, then y" is not personal preference :)
Ethan, What is your opinion on hand resaw attachment offered by Northfield Wood Working for a 22" old band saw?
They will drift if one side of the blade had been dulled by hitting grit or some other hard substance in the cut. To correct, take a sharpening stone and very lightly hold it against the side of the running blade that leads off line. This dulls the sharp side a bit causing the blade to track straight again. One sided sharp blades track towards that side.
I understand what you said. I saw what you talked about, but, I am having trouble understanding what the different is between the fence holding one side of the board or the little ripper doing it from the other side. Can you explain?
Hey Dave,
I love the question! I'll do my best to explain the difference here.
When you push a piece of wood through a fence it will stress. When it stresses it will push away from the fence and bind the blade. OK so that makes sense. What make the Little Ripper different?
When you push a piece of wood that is clamped in the Little Ripper through it will stress. The wood will stress on the far side without any interference from a fence. On the Little Ripper side the wood is clamped in place at 8 different points therefor the wood cannot move until it is release from the jig. So long story short...On one side the wood is free to stress on the other it is locked in place therefor it cannot bind the blade.
Hope that makes sense!
Ethan
Excellent! I have been working with bandsaw boxes and when cutting the back off I constantly get drift using a fence. I’m able to make straighter cuts freehand but they aren’t perfect. I can’t use that claw thing because it would mark up the box. Any ideas how I can get such a straight cut for a bandsaw box?
Look for Alex Snodgrass on YT where he gives a demo at a trade show.
How much should my upper, lateral blade guide gaps change from the bottom to the top of the cutting height range? Mine change about 0.045". Is this normal? Thanks (this is on a new 14" bandsaw). Is this a big deal or should I just carry on? Thanks.
Very good explanation, where do find that jig you are using to make the cuts??
Thanks Michael!
Here's a link to the Little Ripper on our website. We make them in house here in Canada.
stockroomsupply.ca/shop/little-ripper-and-round-ripper/the-little-ripper.html
Sure enough my blade drifted into the fence. And it was only my first cut. But when I checked the teeth I noticed that the ones on the fence-side stood out way more than the other side.
Uneven blade set causes drift as you've just demonstrated.
Thanks for watching :)
I have a Metabo BAS261 that I cannot set up correctly and it's actually drifting toward the fence no matter the way I do the cut (with or without the fence). I tried everything, blade position table set-up, clearences, notrhing does. It's still and always drifting toward the left of the blade where the fence is or should be. I'm a little lost, so happy to get any advice. Thanks.
I would think moving the blade to the back of the wheel as you did, would have started to bind the blade on the right side. You did say that you changed the angle of the blade.
When I try to re-saw down the middle of my board using my fence, my blade is drifting towards the fence. (Left) I’ve “set up” the saw twice with the same results. Based on your video, I’m thinking maybe I’m applying more pressure on one side more than the other. Or maybe my blade is bad. Maybe I’m feeding to fast.
The frustrating thing is there are all kinds of videos of people making a very straight cut using only a fence.
I do like your video, and there is no arguing your results.
Thanks David I'm glad you liked the video!
The issue with wood is there is no real way of predicting how it will move and stress as you cut it. But guaranteed when you use a fence on a bandsaw the wood will move and bind the blade.
I,like you, struggle with a fence on a bandsaw. The only way to cut straight regardless of the tension, setup or blade is to use a carriage. I hope my video helped show that!
Ethan
The fence is the problem. Start cutting a piece of wood against your fence about four inches into the wood and shup off the band saw. Now look to see which side of the blade is tighter to the wood. Adjust the fence away to make the distance equal. It may take a couple attempts to get the blade dead center, but once you have this blade will not drift.
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR!!! Thank you! Bandsaws are not witchcraft, but the whole community seems to believe all this voodoo about drift and fence-shimming and whatnot.
Thanks for watching!
Glad you enjoyed :)
Hey Ethan!
that resew pin that you took off your saw at the beginning of this video; what is? and how is it used?
Question: if my blade is already drifting consistently do I need to replace the blade to get a straight cut?
Then you need to fully adjust your machine.
Where do I get the little ripper sawmill and how much