I’ve had both. Had problems with the Suzos but replaced them with Euro sticks. 3 years later I haven’t had any issues. Great joysticks. Nice arcade room btw!
Both sticks use the same mold the exactly. The difference is that the actuator and sleeve are made from nylon in the IL. IL invented these sticks, and HAPP licensed the design. When Suzo bought HAPP, they just changed from using nylon to using PVC for the actuator. There is more friction on the HAPP stick actuator and it will jam up cocked rotated at a 30-45 degree angle on the stick and cause directions to not be pressed randomly. I have HAPPs in my Neo Geo from before they switched from Nylon to PVC and they have that 8 way skight gate feeling. I can only suppose that the black PVC actuators masking it because they have more give. But trust me just get IL sticks, they are better quality of the same mold. Also, upgrade your micro swtiches if that has zippys in it.
5:33 Yaa dude I have experienced this before, I strongly suspect that you may have had a bit of dust or a particle of plastic either in the Spring, Or on the Actuator, or even on the Pivot point. I usually take the whole thing apart and wipe down the parts I mentioned with a micro fiber cloth and some isopropyl. Sometimes the Actuator, and or the Pivot have a little bit of Plastic that is left over from their Mold, and it could be thick enough at times to be felt. You will be able to see where this part is as it's white than the rest of the whole. You can take a small Xacto knife and just shave it off so it's flush.
You can fix this by removing the C-clamp, rotating the actuator and reattaching it. Common fix that’s been around for a while, annoying that it even has to be done but seems to get the job done
Nice man! Hopefully you continue to enjoy it and break it in more. I'm sure someone probably has dibs on your KI Arcade 1up already but if not, I'd be happy to buy it from ya! Lol
@@KillerArcadeGameshey KAG noticed your lettering in your Thumbnail icon , I'm pretty certain you will keep KI 1-UP , ,it's literally your favorite obviously , , never feel guilty KEEP the KI cab , 🏆👍👍👍
I have ILs in my ki 1up cab and I like them. And as you probably know they’ve been put through a lot of playtime and they still perform great. That being said, and this may just be my memories playing tricks, when I first got these ILs I remember immediately thinking they weren’t as good as they happs that were in my actual KI cabinet. So who knows 🤷♂️😅
I’m sure they would, especially with home use. I got lucky and found that unused monitor. Maybe someone will offload some controls they found in a warehouse haha
@@KillerArcadeGames I can’t believe you found that monitor. Pure gold. If I ever get out to Texas one day, I’m gonna have to stop by and show that player 2 side some love lol. I don’t know why but I always prefer to play on that side.
It was insane luck! I went back to the arcade i worked at tonight. I was asking if they still had any CRTs they were going to throw out. They had one but it was just the tube so I left it. I doubt I’ll get that lucky again. If you’re ever out here let me know!
cant really tell for sure when you were moving the happ stick but it looked like it was pretty loose like the spring was shot. ive had my happs from terry for like a year now and play every day and mine are still pretty damn tight. although after swapping out the stock switches for new cherrys it made a huge difference. the stock switches sucked.
I never got around to changing out my A1up sticks, but from what I heard IL was the way to go, some even saying you didn’t have to modify the stick in anyway because the base was supposedly smaller (which you disproved here) So while I’ve still not tried them to provide actual real world feedback, if what they say is true, you made the right decision. :)
I really appreciate this video. I've always wondered what the difference truly is. I feel like the IL would be better for the moves that aren't half circle, like Jago's down/fwd to down/back move. I have the Tornado Terry Suzo Happ controls in my KI and I definitely feel like the responsiveness I remember isn't quite there like they here when it was just Happ.
Have you considered changing out the actuator from the Happ, into the iL? The Happ actuator looks slightly smaller. That should get rid of that chunky feeling. It may miss microswitch presses though. Worth a shot, being it costs you nothing to do the swap. Personally, my favorite setup is Sanwa, with 4lb springs, and the 8 way gate completely removed from the stick. This gives you the complete circle Happ feel, with the quality of Sanwa.
I had happ from Terry on my ki but they started getting crappy after 8 months. Internals are better on IL but even after playing hard online for 4 months or so you need to take them apart and use lube on the moving parts. Otherwise they start squeeking and not as smooth. Lots of plastic dust accumulated on mine lol
7:10 Did you notice that the Happ Stick has a bit of a heavier spring? It should be about the same difference between a Happ Concave Button & a Happ Competitive. In General Happ Parts feel heavier in play than their IL Counterparts.
Been rocking the Suzo Happ sticks I bought off of Tornado Terry a few years ago when I built my cab. I don't play anywhere near as much as you though (I wish!). My machine probably has gotten as much time and love the entire time I've had it as you give your machines get in a month LOL. That said, mine are still holding strong. I wonder if just replacing the micro switch would have resolved the issue or if there was something mechanically happening on your original stick?
il's are my fav. the nylon actuator is probably the cause of feedback difference for you. they are very angular on il's compared to happs. you can try and frankenstein the two to try and get that feeling you like. ✌️
Killer Arcade Games, I'd be surprised if SUZO HAPP is declining, because I continue to hear great things, but I couldn't tell you if they are for sure, because the last SUZO HAPP buttons and sticks I got were with my Rec Room Masters Alphacade, which I bought back in 2018 and that thing still rocks with no issues. There are different grades of SUZO HAPP, so if one type doesn't work, you could try another. IL is decent, and I definitely prefer them over Sanwa, but nothing beats, for me, the feeling of a good SUZO HAPP. Great to hear your thoughts on this. vgv
8:25 Take it apart and clean it with iso & microfiber. You don't have to use 90 Proof or anything 😂 When I get home I'll point out the spots I had some issues with that produced a Chunky Feeling for me too before so you could see what I mean on Discord.
2:14 Suzo & IL use ZF D44X 75g Microswitches. They were formerly known as Cherry. Suzo Happ does have their Ultimate Line of Buttons & Sticks that have an entry level option that they use Chinese Produced 'E-Switches' which were the ones used on th A1UP Pro KI, but both Suzo & IL pair their Sticks & Buttons with the D44X Switch. This is the same switch that was used on Legacy Cabs back in the day throughout the 90s & Early 2000's. It's Arcade Royalty at this point. And again on Focus Attack they are $1.45 each
I'm not a fan of ball top sticks either. If you ever want to try a different top on a japanese lever i would recommend bullet tops. They are essentially a hybrid of a bat top and ball top and feel much better imo
About 10 years ago, maybe a little more, Happ switched disributors from IL to China and switched the nylon actuator to cheap black plastic. As someone from the Street Fighter community who still uses MAS with American sticks in them, HAPP sticks miss the micro switches a lot without leaf switches. IL doesn't have near that problem
I have a Scanline City MAS Stick that I haven't built up yet. I have the Case just haven't put it tight with the Fighting board and Stick & Buttons. But I also use an American Arcade Stick on console, even for current games like SF6. I use a Street Fighter 15th Anniversary Arcade Stick. It also uses American Parts.
I think IL quality dropped a year ago though. They went from 4 screws to 2 in the bottom and I bet they cut a few other corners. I have real OG happ from the 90's in my fight stick and that still is the best.
Chris not trying to sound negative just want to give some constructive criticism here, this would have been a much better comparision test if you had learnt more of the technical advanced stuff in KI1 and KI2 KI1 orchids 80hit , Jago 80 hit, the advanced unbreakables mostly with Fulgore/Cinder/Orchid and Jago KI2 the 70+ ultra's particularly Jago 78/79 or tusk 75/76 hit with slow ultra at the end, you've had more then enough time since having your channel for 5 years, i remembered you said once on a live stream learning this stuff takes the fun out of the game though
I still like both and honestly, I never really noticed the IL catching in the diagonals but I can kind of feel it slightly now that you mention it. It's very subtle. It's nothing like a square gate, but going slowly you can definitely find the exact diagonals. I have both IL and HAPP and like them both. Currently my MK cab is HAPP and the custom stick I play on in the KI1 tutorials is IL. I wouldn't ever replace one with the other unless one was broken though. Thanks for the shoutout.
0:45 That's way to Elementary for you to have had such an incredible Misconception! 🤯🤯🤯 Dude what you were experiencing was an issue with a Micro switch. I mean it doesn't take away from the benefits of making a Video for people, but your issue was solved by simply ordering another batch of D44X Microswitches. They are $1.45 each at Focus Attack. Again, it doesn't take away from the opportunity of a comparison video, but I'm reacting based on what you said. You said you have cleaned under there but that was too vague for me to assume you meant that you opened up th Microswitches and cleaned up the micro dust that builds up in the switch over time, causing the contacts to not transmit the electrical signals.Or if you just meant that you rewired something, I don't know I rather not assume. But ya man, anytime that happens again, experiment by simply taking that troubled input, swap it with another microswitch on that same stick, if the same switch is failing on a new direction, Well There's Your Problem.
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
I really like my IL sticks. I originally got them because I built a TMNT Cab and they have the turtles colors. I like how sturdy they feel.
I’ve had both. Had problems with the Suzos but replaced them with Euro sticks. 3 years later I haven’t had any issues. Great joysticks. Nice arcade room btw!
Been waiting for a comparison video. Thanks!
I wanted to have a more definitive answer or say I was in love with or hated them but this is as honest as I can be. It’s a good stick!
Both sticks use the same mold the exactly. The difference is that the actuator and sleeve are made from nylon in the IL. IL invented these sticks, and HAPP licensed the design. When Suzo bought HAPP, they just changed from using nylon to using PVC for the actuator. There is more friction on the HAPP stick actuator and it will jam up cocked rotated at a 30-45 degree angle on the stick and cause directions to not be pressed randomly. I have HAPPs in my Neo Geo from before they switched from Nylon to PVC and they have that 8 way skight gate feeling. I can only suppose that the black PVC actuators masking it because they have more give. But trust me just get IL sticks, they are better quality of the same mold. Also, upgrade your micro swtiches if that has zippys in it.
I have no problem with either, but I tend to purchase IL more often.
hell yeah glad to hear ya gave IL a chance recently changed my a1up KI to IL myself and been loving it!
Awesome brother! I hope you continue to have so much fun with it and break it in more. Also great info, thanks so much for this video! 😊🎉
5:33 Yaa dude I have experienced this before, I strongly suspect that you may have had a bit of dust or a particle of plastic either in the Spring, Or on the Actuator, or even on the Pivot point.
I usually take the whole thing apart and wipe down the parts I mentioned with a micro fiber cloth and some isopropyl.
Sometimes the Actuator, and or the Pivot have a little bit of Plastic that is left over from their Mold, and it could be thick enough at times to be felt. You will be able to see where this part is as it's white than the rest of the whole. You can take a small Xacto knife and just shave it off so it's flush.
You can fix this by removing the C-clamp, rotating the actuator and reattaching it. Common fix that’s been around for a while, annoying that it even has to be done but seems to get the job done
Nice man! Hopefully you continue to enjoy it and break it in more. I'm sure someone probably has dibs on your KI Arcade 1up already but if not, I'd be happy to buy it from ya! Lol
I’ll give it more time and it may feel a little smoother. I plan to keep the 1Up KI for the online play. I just have no idea where I’ll put it haha.
@@KillerArcadeGameshey KAG noticed your lettering in your Thumbnail icon , I'm pretty certain you will keep KI 1-UP , ,it's literally your favorite obviously , , never feel guilty KEEP the KI cab , 🏆👍👍👍
I have ILs in my ki 1up cab and I like them. And as you probably know they’ve been put through a lot of playtime and they still perform great. That being said, and this may just be my memories playing tricks, when I first got these ILs I remember immediately thinking they weren’t as good as they happs that were in my actual KI cabinet. So who knows 🤷♂️😅
That’s a good endorsement for sure. I wish I could find some new old stock Happs!
@@KillerArcadeGamesyup that would be the way to go if you could find them. I feel like they would last another 20 years
I’m sure they would, especially with home use. I got lucky and found that unused monitor. Maybe someone will offload some controls they found in a warehouse haha
@@KillerArcadeGames I can’t believe you found that monitor. Pure gold. If I ever get out to Texas one day, I’m gonna have to stop by and show that player 2 side some love lol. I don’t know why but I always prefer to play on that side.
It was insane luck! I went back to the arcade i worked at tonight. I was asking if they still had any CRTs they were going to throw out. They had one but it was just the tube so I left it. I doubt I’ll get that lucky again. If you’re ever out here let me know!
Awesome info, thanks for the video!
The most truest thing said in this video 9:34, ive always hated sanwa the feel of them and playing on them
Me either. They feel mushy IMHO.
cant really tell for sure when you were moving the happ stick but it looked like it was pretty loose like the spring was shot. ive had my happs from terry for like a year now and play every day and mine are still pretty damn tight. although after swapping out the stock switches for new cherrys it made a huge difference. the stock switches sucked.
I never got around to changing out my A1up sticks, but from what I heard IL was the way to go, some even saying you didn’t have to modify the stick in anyway because the base was supposedly smaller (which you disproved here)
So while I’ve still not tried them to provide actual real world feedback, if what they say is true, you made the right decision.
:)
I have that same stick on my MAME cabinet but in green to match the control panel and I love it.
I really appreciate this video. I've always wondered what the difference truly is. I feel like the IL would be better for the moves that aren't half circle, like Jago's down/fwd to down/back move. I have the Tornado Terry Suzo Happ controls in my KI and I definitely feel like the responsiveness I remember isn't quite there like they here when it was just Happ.
Have you considered changing out the actuator from the Happ, into the iL? The Happ actuator looks slightly smaller. That should get rid of that chunky feeling. It may miss microswitch presses though. Worth a shot, being it costs you nothing to do the swap. Personally, my favorite setup is Sanwa, with 4lb springs, and the 8 way gate completely removed from the stick. This gives you the complete circle Happ feel, with the quality of Sanwa.
Fair review. Hope you like them.
So far they’re good. I will always prefer that smoother feel of the Happs.
I heard these are good for hitting diagonals. You ever try Japanese sticks on your cabs?
I had happ from Terry on my ki but they started getting crappy after 8 months. Internals are better on IL but even after playing hard online for 4 months or so you need to take them apart and use lube on the moving parts. Otherwise they start squeeking and not as smooth. Lots of plastic dust accumulated on mine lol
I was pretty surprised to see how much dust was in my Happ stick when I removed it. Maybe some was plastic bits.
perhaps switching out to new microswitches on the old happ could have been the fix
7:10 Did you notice that the Happ Stick has a bit of a heavier spring? It should be about the same difference between a Happ Concave Button & a Happ Competitive.
In General Happ Parts feel heavier in play than their IL Counterparts.
I have the IL in my fightstick and it's amazing.
Been rocking the Suzo Happ sticks I bought off of Tornado Terry a few years ago when I built my cab. I don't play anywhere near as much as you though (I wish!). My machine probably has gotten as much time and love the entire time I've had it as you give your machines get in a month LOL. That said, mine are still holding strong. I wonder if just replacing the micro switch would have resolved the issue or if there was something mechanically happening on your original stick?
6:24 😂 love the honesty Chris
il's are my fav. the nylon actuator is probably the cause of feedback difference for you. they are very angular on il's compared to happs. you can try and frankenstein the two to try and get that feeling you like. ✌️
Killer Arcade Games,
I'd be surprised if SUZO HAPP is declining, because I continue to hear great things, but I couldn't tell you if they are for sure, because the last SUZO HAPP buttons and sticks I got were with my Rec Room Masters Alphacade, which I bought back in 2018 and that thing still rocks with no issues. There are different grades of SUZO HAPP, so if one type doesn't work, you could try another.
IL is decent, and I definitely prefer them over Sanwa, but nothing beats, for me, the feeling of a good SUZO HAPP.
Great to hear your thoughts on this.
vgv
8:25 Take it apart and clean it with iso & microfiber. You don't have to use 90 Proof or anything 😂 When I get home I'll point out the spots I had some issues with that produced a Chunky Feeling for me too before so you could see what I mean on Discord.
2:14 Suzo & IL use ZF D44X 75g Microswitches. They were formerly known as Cherry.
Suzo Happ does have their Ultimate Line of Buttons & Sticks that have an entry level option that they use Chinese Produced 'E-Switches' which were the ones used on th A1UP Pro KI, but both Suzo & IL pair their Sticks & Buttons with the D44X Switch.
This is the same switch that was used on Legacy Cabs back in the day throughout the 90s & Early 2000's.
It's Arcade Royalty at this point. And again on Focus Attack they are $1.45 each
So if you were putting new sticks in a cab with knowing how ils are would you use il or happ?
I'm not a fan of ball top sticks either. If you ever want to try a different top on a japanese lever i would recommend bullet tops. They are essentially a hybrid of a bat top and ball top and feel much better imo
About 10 years ago, maybe a little more, Happ switched disributors from IL to China and switched the nylon actuator to cheap black plastic. As someone from the Street Fighter community who still uses MAS with American sticks in them, HAPP sticks miss the micro switches a lot without leaf switches. IL doesn't have near that problem
I have a Scanline City MAS Stick that I haven't built up yet. I have the Case just haven't put it tight with the Fighting board and Stick & Buttons.
But I also use an American Arcade Stick on console, even for current games like SF6.
I use a Street Fighter 15th Anniversary Arcade Stick. It also uses American Parts.
😊😊🤷♂🤷♂ i love your real arcade machine its so kool and that CRT man i hope it last you for another 20 years :)
I think IL quality dropped a year ago though. They went from 4 screws to 2 in the bottom and I bet they cut a few other corners. I have real OG happ from the 90's in my fight stick and that still is the best.
Chris not trying to sound negative just want to give some constructive criticism here, this would have been a much better comparision test if you had learnt more of the technical advanced stuff in KI1 and KI2
KI1 orchids 80hit , Jago 80 hit, the advanced unbreakables mostly with Fulgore/Cinder/Orchid and Jago
KI2 the 70+ ultra's particularly Jago 78/79 or tusk 75/76 hit with slow ultra at the end, you've had more then enough time since having your channel for 5 years, i remembered you said once on a live stream learning this stuff takes the fun out of the game though
I still like both and honestly, I never really noticed the IL catching in the diagonals but I can kind of feel it slightly now that you mention it. It's very subtle. It's nothing like a square gate, but going slowly you can definitely find the exact diagonals. I have both IL and HAPP and like them both. Currently my MK cab is HAPP and the custom stick I play on in the KI1 tutorials is IL. I wouldn't ever replace one with the other unless one was broken though. Thanks for the shoutout.
0:45 That's way to Elementary for you to have had such an incredible Misconception! 🤯🤯🤯
Dude what you were experiencing was an issue with a Micro switch. I mean it doesn't take away from the benefits of making a Video for people, but your issue was solved by simply ordering another batch of D44X Microswitches. They are $1.45 each at Focus Attack.
Again, it doesn't take away from the opportunity of a comparison video, but I'm reacting based on what you said.
You said you have cleaned under there but that was too vague for me to assume you meant that you opened up th Microswitches and cleaned up the micro dust that builds up in the switch over time, causing the contacts to not transmit the electrical signals.Or if you just meant that you rewired something, I don't know I rather not assume.
But ya man, anytime that happens again, experiment by simply taking that troubled input, swap it with another microswitch on that same stick, if the same switch is failing on a new direction, Well There's Your Problem.
I prefer happ but use sanwa because it is cheaper. Happ is supposed to be better than sanwa, the authentic ones any way.
IL is soo much better...