I would've thought it was fairly obvious that heating the case makes it expand - therefore less likely to damage the case as the bearing drags through it with scoring etc.
Yup... its safer for the cases to do hot cold. Not exactly sure how much safer... and how many times you can press a bearing in and out without the damage being relevant. I've not yet seen an issue with bearings thats come up specifically because they were pressed instead of hot cold. I have seen hot cold method fail...as it is definitely technique sensitive and not to mention more dangerous for the user due to the heat.
61.5F "room temp"? Lol!.. Yeah that's about room temp in New England on March 1st! I really have enjoyed your last few videos. Walt got me interested too, I'm just waiting for my kit saw too arrive. Keep up the good work!
THANKS SO MUCH. JUST DID A 52MM BIG-BORE KIT ON MY 61, AND BENT THE CRANK ON THE FIRST CUT, LOG SHIFTED AND CLAMPED IT INSTANTLY AT FULL-TILT. I THOUGHT THE HEAT APPROACH WAS OVERT-COMPLICATED AS WELL.
I use heat AND controlled insertion using allthread (the good stuff, local hydraulic supply shops often carry Grade 8, NON-galvanized allthread which is outstanding for making custom pullers/pushers), nuts and washers. Visit your local hydraulic shop. They have hardware too and most of it is high quality. I get better prices at mine for hardware than at chain stores. I use torches all the time for any number of tasks. There's no benefit in avoiding them if you have 'em, and plenty of good reasons to own them if you don't. A set of inexpensive bearing drivers (NEVER buy chromed bearing drivers, it flakes off) can be used with allthread for even more versatility.
Ob Fuscated yeah....nothing wrong with a bit of heat. I've just been trying to figure out if it's necessary or not....and I think not. .though it can make things easier. I would agree that other types of rod make better drivers..but I just haven't had a problem with regular all thread. My application here means that the forces necessary are well within the limits of the threaded rod. Nice comments...keep em coming!
why are we not doing it this way lol you should not be allowed to ever touch a saw again. How about attending one of the service school? Then you will know why we are not doing it this way
Hey Matt I use a combination of 1/4 all thread with 3 nuts (2 to make a jamb on one end) a proper size race/seal installer head without handle and flat washers to protect the aluminum of the race/seal driver and a few proper size flat washers for support on the pulling side of the case and if needed a 1/4 pipe nipple of the required length to make access to the turning nut easier. Some times I just use a proper size deep well socket with all thread nuts and flat washers if I can make that setup work. Right before I install the bearing I apply a small coating of brush on permatex gasket sealer part #? (I'll edit when I can make it to the barn) just to make sure I have a good seal between the case and bearing race. I've used this method many times for over 30yrs just take your time a pay attention to make sure your pulling the bearing in square to the case or DAMAGE WILL RESULT. Made it to barn and this is what I use for sealing Permatex Super “300” Form-A-Gasket Sealant part #80057
Got a vid? Actually, I might use some loctite 518 for installing the bearings tonight, between the outer race and the case. thanks for the heads up on that. I've got some 1/2" threaded rod that seems to work well... and yes, gotta make sure its square.
Matthew Olson Sorry no vids I just got turned onto TH-cam in the last year and still getting it figured out. I'm wanting to do some videos but camera on my old phone just doesn't get it. I'm working on getting a descent camera so I can shoot some. I'm looking at a GO PRO not sure though.
Being a class A machine builder we heat the bearing bore to 350 degrees and freeze the bearing to around 40 below in the freezer. Once it’s all in position and room temp it’s a good fit.
Yeah I've done that for years....usually something ends up out of alignment and gets stuck halfway. What a pain. Then you lose the heat differential and now you are using a press or a hammer anyway. Plus....take a significant amount of time to do the heat/cold thing. Unless you have a torch and liquid nitrogen lol
I'm a machinist and thats how it's done. We use an induction heater for heating bearings. You mic the bore until you know you have plenty of clearance, then slide it on. You can still press a bearing on but it's no guarantee it's going on straight.
have any tricks from removing bearings off of a crank? im doing a ms440, i dont have the tool to take the bearings off the crank, will need to go to a dealer most likely to get them removed.
ben faccone get the harbor freight bearing puller. ..it's in my vids somewhere. It's less than 40$. It works fine but you need to make sure you get a good bite on the bearings. Use a grinder if you have to to notch the bearings so it bites. A little heat helps too.
hi Matthew found your channel a couple of weeks ago and am really impressed with it . very helpful. I'm in the UK and I have a 394xp as a rebuild project I need a to buy a new flywheel and am really struggling to get one over here . could you possibly help ? many thanks Dan
Dan Kelly yeah... the 394 flywheels are not easy to find. you can post a wanted ad on opeforum.com and see what comes up. ...or an alternative is to get a 395xp crank and flywheel combo and use that...those will fit fine....but need to get both.
Matthew Olson Thank you for your quick reply .I will.look.into that. all the best and keep up with the great work . I might need to pick your brains if I get stuck if that ok .☺
EUGENE KUPKA technically you need a 250 F Differential to get the crank in the bearing...if you can do it with less...you may need to replace the crank. ..if the bearing spins on the crank that's a bad thing
Chris L why not? See my updated videos on the crank pulling tools. It's ideal to hold the inner race while pulling the crank through because it puts no lateral force on the bearings
Because the inner race was not intended for that kind of pressure, you can distort the inner race which is a precision part. The outer race sure but the inner race was not intended for that purpose. The only thing holding in the inner race is the bearings, think of it that way.
Chris L again. ..please see my updated vids. I just don't see how it's more dangerous to put an aluminum sleeve on an inner bearing race and pull a crank through as opposed to risking putting flats on the balls
Which video is it, i see several. Make a post over on A.S. and see what those guys say. You'll never see a pro using the inner race to push or pull in a new bearing, i guarantee you that. I've rebuilt 2 stroke motorcycles and they have a lot more than just 2 bearings and none of them are installed by utilizing the inner race.
Chris L the reason you don't see it done is not because it's not a good idea but because we've never had a set of tools that are designed to do it this way I have sold many copies of these tools and everybody loves them they are a much safer way to install the crank in the bearings then either the hot and cold method or using a shop press
Matthew, I really like your methods "IF" there is no hidden damage that will show up later, a cracked housing for instance. Have you used these methods long enough to make a determination on whether anything like that has happened?
@@oldoldpilgrim1885 well...there's no stress on the housings. I have torn crankcase apart before. It's hard. It was quite the force it took. I just don't see how my techniques put additional stress on a case enough t crack it
Matthew Olson, Many thanks for a quick and honest reply. Do I understand correctly that you once broke a crank case while using your method to install a bearing?
@@oldoldpilgrim1885 no....I broke a case trying to split a case without removing all the bolts and I know of a guy that broke one of my case tools bye using it wrong I have had no specific issues with cold pressing bearings yet and I have done quite a few
i know..... everyone comments on that. what I have is super awkward...but it works for me. dumb thing is that I have a sawmill, and I could make a bench if I wanted to.
truth is I have a bench, its covered in junk per usual. I work on that piece of wood on my vice. and it seems to work for me. I have so many parts in the basement right now I'm literally unburying myself by building myself out of the basement
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
Less wear on the case with using heat
I agree....but the question then becomes....how much wear is it without the heat. Is that amount relevant?
I would've thought it was fairly obvious that heating the case makes it expand - therefore less likely to damage the case as the bearing drags through it with scoring etc.
Yup... its safer for the cases to do hot cold. Not exactly sure how much safer... and how many times you can press a bearing in and out without the damage being relevant. I've not yet seen an issue with bearings thats come up specifically because they were pressed instead of hot cold. I have seen hot cold method fail...as it is definitely technique sensitive and not to mention more dangerous for the user due to the heat.
To heat and sweat things together we need to be quick.
61.5F "room temp"? Lol!.. Yeah that's about room temp in New England on March 1st! I really have enjoyed your last few videos. Walt got me interested too, I'm just waiting for my kit saw too arrive. Keep up the good work!
well, the metal is a tad chilly in the basement. :)
Yeah, Walt has some good stuff going.
Stay tuned for more kit saw stuff!
looks easy enough to me .
Nice
THANKS SO MUCH. JUST DID A 52MM BIG-BORE KIT ON MY 61, AND BENT THE CRANK ON THE FIRST CUT, LOG SHIFTED AND CLAMPED IT INSTANTLY AT FULL-TILT. I THOUGHT THE HEAT APPROACH WAS OVERT-COMPLICATED AS WELL.
I've been doing this now for years....works great
I use heat AND controlled insertion using allthread (the good stuff, local hydraulic supply shops often carry Grade 8, NON-galvanized allthread which is outstanding for making custom pullers/pushers), nuts and washers. Visit your local hydraulic shop. They have hardware too and most of it is high quality. I get better prices at mine for hardware than at chain stores.
I use torches all the time for any number of tasks. There's no benefit in avoiding them if you have 'em, and plenty of good reasons to own them if you don't. A set of inexpensive bearing drivers (NEVER buy chromed bearing drivers, it flakes off) can be used with allthread for even more versatility.
Ob Fuscated yeah....nothing wrong with a bit of heat. I've just been trying to figure out if it's necessary or not....and I think not.
.though it can make things easier.
I would agree that other types of rod make better drivers..but I just haven't had a problem with regular all thread. My application here means that the forces necessary are well within the limits of the threaded rod.
Nice comments...keep em coming!
why are we not doing it this way lol you should not be allowed to ever touch a saw again. How about attending one of the service school? Then you will know why we are not doing it this way
jugfhj I'm cool with constructive criticism. ...but not bashing with nothing to back it up....try again
Hey Matt
I use a combination of 1/4 all thread with 3 nuts (2 to make a jamb on one end) a proper size race/seal installer head without handle and flat washers to protect the aluminum of the race/seal driver and a few proper size flat washers for support on the pulling side of the case and if needed a 1/4 pipe nipple of the required length to make access to the turning nut easier. Some times I just use a proper size deep well socket with all thread nuts and flat washers if I can make that setup work.
Right before I install the bearing I apply a small coating of brush on permatex gasket sealer part #? (I'll edit when I can make it to the barn) just to make sure I have a good seal between the case and bearing race.
I've used this method many times for over 30yrs just take your time a pay attention to make sure your pulling the bearing in square to the case or DAMAGE WILL RESULT.
Made it to barn and this is what I use for sealing Permatex Super “300” Form-A-Gasket Sealant part #80057
Got a vid?
Actually, I might use some loctite 518 for installing the bearings tonight, between the outer race and the case. thanks for the heads up on that.
I've got some 1/2" threaded rod that seems to work well... and yes, gotta make sure its square.
Matthew Olson Sorry no vids I just got turned onto TH-cam in the last year and still getting it figured out. I'm wanting to do some videos but camera on my old phone just doesn't get it. I'm working on getting a descent camera so I can shoot some. I'm looking at a GO PRO not sure though.
i'm not an expert on video equipment, wish I could help....I'm using my canon rebel t5i dslr....
Being a class A machine builder we heat the bearing bore to 350 degrees and freeze the bearing to around 40 below in the freezer. Once it’s all in position and room temp it’s a good fit.
Yeah I've done that for years....usually something ends up out of alignment and gets stuck halfway. What a pain. Then you lose the heat differential and now you are using a press or a hammer anyway. Plus....take a significant amount of time to do the heat/cold thing. Unless you have a torch and liquid nitrogen lol
I'm a machinist and thats how it's done.
We use an induction heater for heating bearings. You mic the bore until you know you have plenty of clearance, then slide it on.
You can still press a bearing on but it's no guarantee it's going on straight.
have any tricks from removing bearings off of a crank? im doing a ms440, i dont have the tool to take the bearings off the crank, will need to go to a dealer most likely to get them removed.
ben faccone get the harbor freight bearing puller. ..it's in my vids somewhere. It's less than 40$. It works fine but you need to make sure you get a good bite on the bearings. Use a grinder if you have to to notch the bearings so it bites. A little heat helps too.
ben faccone th-cam.com/video/ifEKL8VB7HY/w-d-xo.html
I think I like the way mweba does it, put the bearings on the crank first then heat the case around where the bearings go.
Joe W hey...if you can get that to work that's great...but I have a set of tools now that I think beat everything. ..much less finicky
i use a similar method for installing rubber bushings on vehicle wishbones.
yup
hi Matthew
found your channel a couple of weeks ago and am really impressed with it . very helpful.
I'm in the UK and I have a 394xp as a rebuild project I need a to buy a new flywheel and am really struggling to get one over here . could you possibly help ? many thanks
Dan
Dan Kelly yeah...
the 394 flywheels are not easy to find. you can post a wanted ad on opeforum.com and see what comes up. ...or an alternative is to get a 395xp crank and flywheel combo and use that...those will fit fine....but need to get both.
Matthew Olson Thank you for your quick reply .I will.look.into that. all the best and keep up with the great work . I might need to pick your brains if I get stuck if that ok .☺
Dan Kelly no prob....that's what I'm here for :) watch my vids...take notes. may your build go nice and smooth :)
Years ago at the dealer we used a torch on the bearing bores to install the bearings.
Again....done that. Often it gets stuck halfway anyway. ...love my threaded rod :)
your still going to need hot or cold to get the crank on the bearing
nope ..... th-cam.com/video/r-iZWjOejNc/w-d-xo.html
:)
if you live in a semi tropical climate you dont need heat
EUGENE KUPKA but....I live in Connecticut. ... :(
EUGENE KUPKA technically you need a 250 F Differential to get the crank in the bearing...if you can do it with less...you may need to replace the crank. ..if the bearing spins on the crank that's a bad thing
Pull them however you want but you cannot use the inner race as a pressure point when pulling or pushing in the crank.
Chris L why not? See my updated videos on the crank pulling tools. It's ideal to hold the inner race while pulling the crank through because it puts no lateral force on the bearings
Because the inner race was not intended for that kind of pressure, you can distort the inner race which is a precision part. The outer race sure but the inner race was not intended for that purpose. The only thing holding in the inner race is the bearings, think of it that way.
Chris L again. ..please see my updated vids. I just don't see how it's more dangerous to put an aluminum sleeve on an inner bearing race and pull a crank through as opposed to risking putting flats on the balls
Which video is it, i see several. Make a post over on A.S. and see what those guys say. You'll never see a pro using the inner race to push or pull in a new bearing, i guarantee you that. I've rebuilt 2 stroke motorcycles and they have a lot more than just 2 bearings and none of them are installed by utilizing the inner race.
Chris L the reason you don't see it done is not because it's not a good idea but because we've never had a set of tools that are designed to do it this way I have sold many copies of these tools and everybody loves them they are a much safer way to install the crank in the bearings then either the hot and cold method or using a shop press
what about the PTO side? hows the easy way of getting that through please?.
same way... :)
I'm gonna do another 660, a 372, a 440 and a 360 coming up, i'll use these type tools on all of them
what tap did you use to make the thread for the PTO side?
definitely making one of these.
thanxx all of the sizes should be in the video descriptions....which saw do you want to put together?
stihl ms441c M Tronic.
Bill Porciello,
What kind of freezer goes to 40 below?
Liquid nitrogen will cool it ....
But I'm not sure what the point is when pulling the bearings in with rod takes less time and is safer
Matthew,
I really like your methods "IF" there is no hidden damage that will show up later, a cracked housing for instance. Have you used these methods long enough to make a determination on whether anything like that has happened?
@@oldoldpilgrim1885 well...there's no stress on the housings.
I have torn crankcase apart before. It's hard. It was quite the force it took.
I just don't see how my techniques put additional stress on a case enough t crack it
Matthew Olson,
Many thanks for a quick and honest reply. Do I understand correctly that you once broke a crank case while using your method to install a bearing?
@@oldoldpilgrim1885 no....I broke a case trying to split a case without removing all the bolts and I know of a guy that broke one of my case tools bye using it wrong I have had no specific issues with cold pressing bearings yet and I have done quite a few
make yourself a workbench why dont ya
i know..... everyone comments on that. what I have is super awkward...but it works for me. dumb thing is that I have a sawmill, and I could make a bench if I wanted to.
truth is I have a bench, its covered in junk per usual. I work on that piece of wood on my vice. and it seems to work for me. I have so many parts in the basement right now I'm literally unburying myself by building myself out of the basement
Matthew Olson I seen a nice tool you made to pull the crank through the bearings. Where do I get one?
Jason Hart from me :)
Jason Hart mattyo5. Atttt. Aol. Dotcom
There are professionals who know why and warm and there are amateurs who work this way
Can you rephrase that please? Not sure what you are getting at.....
Great job
Courtney Kinlocke thanks!