Honestly, there is some fun irony in a character not having a downfall because they were corrupt, but rather because they actually did the right thing when it matters. Anti-karma basically.
Well, he did do the wrong thing- accepting Thorne's money in the first place. His downfall is still karmic, but he had the chance to commit to being wrong and get away with it, which is interesting.
@@parkerdixon-word6295 His downfall is triggered by his first attempt of doing the right thing (standing up to Thorne, sending his goon to trial). He wouldn't have suffered any of this if he kept obeying Thorne, so it's anti-karmic.
@@Espadasilenciosa Or he could have not taken the money in the first place, and I think it's also worth paying attention to the fact that, after getting attacked, the first things he did were to drop out of the Mayoral Race and resign as DA- loosing the political career that he took Thorne's money in the first place to maintain. The punishment fits best as punishment for that crime specifically, but Dent didn't fully commit to it, and was thus punished.
One thing I really like is how the design isn't completely split down the middle like before, instead his skin color is the same which makes him notably have two sides, but those two sides have a grey area in the middle. This Harvey is much more one person than previous iterations. He's two sides of one person, instead of two people in one body. He's extremely human, and so that lack of a clear split is very in line with thay concept
Agreed. this more realistic depiction makes him a lot more sympathetic and likeable as a character. It doesn't kind of rely on the assumption of what split personality is (which is extremely rare for a person to genuinely have 2 minds in one body, most of the time it is just mood swings), and thus they were able to tell a more realistic story with him that Batman fans could appreciate a lot more. Not relying on gimmicks.
@@harrietr.5073ok but the way they portrayed his alter was very inhuman that’s not really how an alter works in real life it’s very sensationalised for the show
It might be an early indicator of his vengeful and softer side conflicting. He would always find the worst punishment... but choose the lighter one out of temperment. He would stay out of the shady dealings (until this one), but would also turn a blind eye to it. He seeked power, but lived rather humbly. Always tempering his crueler side with his softer side. Honestly, like how Commissioner Gordan was perhaps terrible for other police forces but was perfect for Gotham, this Dent may have been a perfect attorney for Gotham.
I think one of the design elements that puts more emphasis on Dent’s “clean” side being the violent one is that his scarred face having a permanent frown, but the camera angles and lighting make it a sorrowful look. That he’s sad that he can’t stop lashing out, that he loathes his own actions.
His scarred half is such a sweetheart. It got me thinking about the BTAS episode where Harvey was gonna get this very important surgery to fix his face, and everyone was either trying to protect him or standing respectfully out of the way. I wondered how that would work with this new version.
One of the saddest and darkest comics of BTAS has Harvey get the surgery to fix his face and fall in love with his surgeon Madeline. When the two are about to get married, her sister Madison(a twin)returns to her life and is very much "good twin, bad twin". Madeline reveals she didn't talk about her because she was afraid it might awaken Harvey's obsession with two again. Madison seduces Harvey and he sleeps with her before deciding to stay with her sister and saying he'll deny it if Madison tells, but Madison gets angry and leaves. Harvey worries about what she said as she left about Madeline stealing everything she wanted(apparently, she had once broken pieces of a pocket mirror into her Madelines milk at their birthday party, as she hated her sister that much). Harvey returns home to find that Madison murdered Madeline and wrote "Just the two of us"in her blood on the wall. Harvey knows he wants her dead, but knows he can't kill her, as Harvey Dent isn't a killer. He then picks up a piece of burning wood from the fire, saying "I know someone who is."(Two Face). When he confronts Madison and shows his new face(much worse than the animated series with the burns)and asks if she loves him still, Madison confirms it and says that her sister didn't love the real him, she loved the watered down normal version, Two Face kisses her and thinks how he couldn't kill her, but then notes how much she looks like her sister before shooting her dead in anger. The story, being told in narration, reveals he is telling the story to Batman, waiting with the dead Madison cradled in his arms, waiting for Batman to take him back to Arkham where he belongs.
Probably because standard incarnations of Two-Face were a noble man who became jaded by the corruption of Gotham and gave into his anger that he always kept bottled up. THIS version of Two-Face was a corrupt man who deep down felt guilty at compromising his once noble beliefs, and once he became Two-Face, that guilt and self loathing bubbled to the surface.
I like that Two-Face is basically Batman's fault, and that Batman acknowledges this throughout the episodes. I like that Batman isn't "healthy" in this show and is often very toxic to those around him in service of his crusade. Seeing him grow out of that is a very enjoyable experience to watch, because it almost feels like we're watching him grow into who would eventually become BTAS Batman, someone that is genuinely compassionate even towards his enemies, but deep down still has those scars that will rear their ugly head once again when he gets into his 70s and 80s.
@elongatedmanforever1252 it's called character development. Also this is an obvious noir style take, and often in this genere the protagonist is deeply flawed, and has to juggle his own personal demons, along with dealing with his enemies. Frankly this batmanif probably a breath of fresh air, compared to the impossibly overprepared unbeatable chessmaster we've been dealing with as of late.
@@StuHol-jb1hh Pretty much my feelings in a nutshell, lol. For the past almost 20 years, Batman has been right about almost everything, and often 5 steps ahead of pretty much everyone else. It's a breath of fresh air to see him be fallible and even get stuff wrong, especially since this is very much an "early career" Batman. But his flaws go even deeper than that, and I think we get a better look at how a kid growing up sustained on vengeance would actually turn out when starting his crusade. He still has compassion for folks like Barb, Gordon, and Leslie, but he's still very detached, even from Alfred, his closest confidant, who he never called by his first name until the Gentleman Ghost episode, which I think speaks volumes to how broken he really was, but also how much he's growing over the course of the season.
@@elongatedmanforever1252 There is a diffrence between showing someone morally grey on the journey to improve and going the "I'm the goddang batman!"-route. This is not really ruining the character as much as using a diffrent formula to get the same answer.
The "Disfigured Half Is The Good Half" is heavily hinted at in The Dark Knight Returns, where Two-Face, after getting surgery to fix his face, goes on to commit crimes without the 2 theme. Fixing the disfigured face didn't get rid of the bad personality, it removed the good one.
2 face is very like those actual acid attacks you would hear about a few years ago (i think it was a few years ago, it wasn't recent but there was one time a influx happened) It was a very huge thing a few years ago i believe in the UK and other places had very bad acid attacks where mostly women were attacked with acid in their faces, usually by men who wanted marriage, the men would do this to destroy the woman's chances of having a normal life and marriage, and unfortunately the community looks at the woman in shame because of disfigurment and because of old traditional reasons, it is very sad and awful, especially when the woman isn't even actually a woman but a girl, there was a incident i heard where a man asked for marriage i believe and the mom and girl didn't accept and the man broke inside the house did a acid attack as revenge, i don't know much about the causes of men getting acid attacked, only about women and the reasons i hear why they get attacked- sorry for ramble, harvey dent just reminds me of those awful influx incidents, don't take this 100% as fact, this is just me hearing and remebering stuff, im not well versed in this Edit: forgotten to mention that, in a way, Dent's acid attack was a way to humiliate and demean him and his position and to harm him, it was act of pure hate and violence like with irl usual reasons for acid attacks: Revenge, because someone did them wrong in some way or form, like something as simple as rejecting someone's advances or, in this case, because Dent went against Thorne, Dent isn't innocent, but he is still a victim update: found out one of the reasons men getting acid attacked, I believe it is land disputes, and individuals getting attacked over political affiliation i believe
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Yes, from terrorists. It's still going on, just no longer covered.
I totally was a real thing. I think it mostly happened in 2014 to 2016, can I distinctly remember being traumatized by some of the images I encountered on Tumblr. Had to unfollow a few people for that but God, I've never forgotten it.
It's such a horrible crime. No matter if the attacker is caught or even given capital punishment, the damage they have inflicted on their victim's life can't be undone. I can't imagine the strength one would have to live past that trauma and the shameful treatment of their own community in the aftermath.
@@NoirRaven I remember seeing a photo once, It is very scary but it's even worse with the context, I don't know why there was a influx in 2014 - 2016 though, it's crazy how evil people can be they are willing to use acid on people Also, ty for saying the years this influx happened, I literally couldn't remember when this happened
One thing I think was handled well was people's reactions to Harvey Dent. Most people did not seem bothered by him after he was injured, it was mostly his own mental projections playing tricks on him. Plus Harvey was never one to settle with doing the bare minimum. There are many issues I had with Caped Crusader, but having the balls to make Two Face kind of a fence sitter turned self destructive impulse killer was pretty cool.
As a Twoface fan… I just don't like this version as he has the same generic “grrr I'm the bad guy” that so many recent Twoface interpretations have. I like Two-Face is that he's the victim of the ‘Lucifer effect’. Essentially, a tragic fall of a well-meaning but flawed man who TRIES to be the very best, but falls at the end. Harvey’s tragedy is what makes him so interesting, and the fact that even as two-face, he STILL has some semblance of his old self with how he talks about his friend, Bruce Wayne in a very positive wistful light. Caped Crusader’s two face the lack substance that made him interesting.
Great video. I liked this version of Harvey Dent/Two Face and his character arc this season. I'm glad they made him different than the BTAS version (which is iconic but wouldn't fit into this show's universe). The change in making his good side the physically scarred one was good, and I like Bruce Timm's reason for that. One thing you mentioned that I thought was especially important was his impact on Bruce/Batman at the end of the last episode. Looking forward to the video on Flass and Bullock.
Yeah, ironically all the other versions of Harvey were sympathetic from the start and became corrupt as a reflection of their inability to handle themselves, but I'd argue this version of Harvey is by far the most sympathetic. Even though he was an arrogant and corrupt man from the start and his true nature is a vengeful person. The fact that the acid caused him to relapse and consider himself a freak and failure kind of indicates he in some way "wanted" to get better but was just unable to represes the way he was before. Almost like he's corrupt because of the system he was part of, rather than because of some personal vice. I think having the scarred side of him be the side that laments and feels sorry for himself and others was also a nice touch. Reminds me of Gordy when he was about to die and asked Hawkgirl if there's an afterlife and Hawkgirl, not being TOTALLY heartless told him that there was. The scarred design really was an EXCELLENT metaphor to how we judge people for how they are at thier best, strong, prideful, but when a man is beaten to their worst, that's when the reality really kicks in and we might really see something get through to them before it's "Too late". It's a strong reason why people are against the Death penalty and prefer Life as with Life, it may give them a chance to return to being a good person and make up for their horrible sins and kind of shows people that just "killing left and right" shouldn't be the default option (even if some people are so wicked and evil they really seem like they deserve it, but the thing is, they're already captured and in jail. So short of releasing them due to ineptitude of the justice system, there should be no reason they cause a ruckus again.) A good visual metaphor there without spelling it out. Not that we need to feel sorry for corrupt politicians or lawyers, but that often what we want to do to them, the face that we want to punch might not still deserve it when it's already been punched to death. Otherwise, it makes justice look like the monster and misses the point of punishment in the first place, to prevent future crime, not justify beating someone to death for our own blood lust. I'd argue that while the other Two faces were more entertaining or interesting, this one definitely has to be my favorite for being the most "real". Not turning into a monster because he was disfigured, but turning remorseful as a result of it, knowing that all that happened and his spiral only happened because of the things he let happen around him. Rather than the AWFUL Vengence spree he went on because Batman saved him instead of his girlfriend.... Like talk about becoming corrupt cause you didn't win the lottery. It doesn't make me sympathize at all no matter how good he was before. But like said, at least BTAS's version was TRYING to do the right thing. I just personally have a problem with blaming his break down entirely on mental health issues cause it's a very difficult subject to handle properly and a LOT of terrible people use mental health as an excuse or defense for bad behavior when it's clear they're just saying that cause it gives them sympathy, rather than focusing on the ROOT cause of the problem. I think Harvey may have captured that, but the Caped Crusader's version is by far the most realistic depiction of mental health cause it doesn't use the mental health as the BASIS of his problems, but rather, as just an internal conflict based on all that happened to him that could be called "mental health" It's unclear of therapy could help him, but it was clear that the acid spray woke him up.
I started watching gotham a few weeks ago on on like the first episode of season 3 and I'm pretty sure flass was that bald black guy who montas partner weird how they just randomly left but in that he's not corrupt attall no where near it
Something I found interesting in the last two episodes was that a few scenes had Harvey suddenly lash out at Barbara or Bruce, before apologizing and claiming that it was "the other guy" saying it - but each time it happened, he was in a profile shot, with the left, untarnished side of his face in focus. Like he's shifting the blame for his outbursts, whether knowingly or not.
After the death of Harvey Dent and Barbara Gordon, who witnessed his death, I guess Commissioner Gordon will finally be able to fire Flass and send him to prison where he belongs.
You know, even some relatively wealthy bachelors prefer apartments, because they don't need the extra space, they're easier to keep clean and organized without needing to hire maids, and you don't even have to keep a lawn mowed. Even rich couples and roommates will often live in penthouse suites.
The dinner scene reminds me of that one version of two face who got plastic surgery to fix his scarred half but was convinced they had actually just scarred the other half instead and everyone was playing a cruel joke on him by pretending he looks normal now.
The Dark Knight Returns. And yes, that comic was the first story that suggested the scarred side of Two Face was actually the good Harvey Dent while the unscarred side was the evil Two Face.
I was disappointed that they killed off Two-Face so quickly after he became. It's The Dark Knight all over again! But it was a good story with an impactful end so I cannot be totally mad about it. And of course it's better than not having Two-Face at all. Still, given that it was Thorne's fault that Dent became Two-Face, it'd have been very apt had Two-Face become Thorne's rival in the organised crime world. I guess stuff like that has (at least kinda) been done before and this version of the story is more subversive.
@@joshuagraham2843 realistic? it isn't realistic for villains to die heroes. It's far easier to become a worse person than a better person. Most people who become villains stay villains. You can call it noir, you can even call it good, sure, but calling it more realistic is naive. That's not how the real world normally works at all.
@@happysocialmoth1197 not sure what you mean, especially by "commit"... if you mean a long-term story arc, Harvey Dent's ran completely through series 1 and will likely impact other characters for rest of the story, especially Batman and Barbara, on that note there's also been Batman's emotional and social growth and I'm sure series 2 will have Bullock and Flass facing consequences for their corrupt acts during series 1, especially their involvement in Harvey Dent's murder. And with all the aforementioned elements plus more from social commentary to Easter eggs plus plenty of other things Luke mentions in his video essays, I disagree with your notion that Caped Crusader lacks depth. Until you can provide some examples, to me you sound like you just hate things deviating too far from the canon to which your are used. I hope you're not one of those weirdos who just saw Penguin is female this time and wrote the show off as "too woke" or some bollocks like that.
This is making me want to rewatch the episode. I really didn’t pay enough attention and now I need to rewatch it again with the new context. As always thank you so much for the content. Really love all of your videos.
BTAS was what demented two face as my favorite Batman villain, and this show had a really fresh take on him, I wasn’t so sure about the redesign when it was teased but the way he was portrayed in this show sold it for me, so well done!
I really like how he offered to flip for the muggers life using his two-headed coin. In that scene, it didn't look like he was trying to be in control, it looked to me more like he was almost asking someone to stop him.
As a big fan of the show Boardwalk Empire, I loved that they got Vincent Piazza to voice Tony Zito, as he feels just like his character from Boardwalk, Lucky Luciano. They even gave him the dropping eye that he had in the show (and the real life gangster had)
0:55 This specific scene of Harvey just screams the kind of influence Ren & Stimpy had on the 90s, specifically the kind of edge the 90s had, the “Barf Age”, as some may call it.
Its worth mentioning that the voice actor of Harvy in Caped crusader is the same voice actor who played Batman in the Brave and the Bold. Emphasising how much like Bruce is to Harvey, and the duality of public vs private persona. Also a lot of people like to mention how Harvey is a Mirror to Bruce, this is actually a genuine mirror. Its ironic the most honest and justice orientated Batman voice actor is playing Harvey Dent, one of the more complex characters in Batmans rogue gallery, but also one that reflects not only Batman, but Bruce wayne as well.
Won’t deny I enjoyed him snapping. I fully expected him to be incompetent but he was cleaning house everywhere he went and took on thorn single handedly. Can’t say I like the face though, it’s the teeth they don’t look lined up properly. I had an idea of two face having paralysis on the right side and wearing a mask with a neutral expression that way his real face could be more expressive and ironically looking less human over time compared to what he started as.
Yeah, the acid melted face was always grossly exaggerated to make him look like half monster, but I think this version being far more realistic (even than the ugly movie version) felt like it helped us relate to the character more. Acid wouldn't turn your skin green or your eyes reptillan, and you wouldn't survive if your skin was melted off entirely like the IRL movie version. Having it kind of with holes in it, messed up gums and torn skin but still there felt more like what'd really happen to a man who had that happen, and arguably made him more sympathetic as a character, since the point of this Two face was to be a lot more subtle about his split personality so we focus more on who the character is and not what his "gimmick" is. Thus making him a lot more .... "well written" I'd say.
I really appreciate the fact that even before the acid attack, Harvey is very often shown with his face in profile, 90 degrees away from the camera. Whether it's him looking off to the side or just where he's facing, it's nice to see that the animators clearly seem to know what they're doing.
I did like the touch that Two face was not over the top disfigured like the usual two face design but more like enough dis figuration that he sticks out. Topped with the disfigured side looking so sad and regretful instead of showing angry all the time. Showing the other guy truly regretting his choices that led him to where he is now.
One thing to note about two face in batman the animated series is that he assigned his bad half to his disfigured side to show his desire to be free of it, and that caused his other half to manifest through it. Beauty may be the perfect mask for monsters, but if you place negative emotions on something like a disfigurement, it will become exactly what you make of it. Our bodies take our own feedback in to consideration when trying to heal, and cursing something that was beyond your bodies ability to fully heal will always have psychological consequences. One thing I like about this version of Harvey Dent is that the other guy still manifests in the disfigurement as everything that Harvey Dent wants to be free of. It's just that this Harvey wants to be free of the timid nature held down by guilt we see in "the other guy".
Two face was always my primary favorite villain, I always enjoy every iteration that emerged (media wise at least) from the iconic black and white design in the animated series to the underrated telltale series, to the excellent portrayal Aaron Eckhart in the dark night. Mainly because he was probably the villain Batman sympathizes the most with given, I always felt like he should have been the dark Knight's arch nemesis instead of the joker, as he and Bruce always had some history together, and seeing his friend become the very thing he tried to fight against really is a beautiful sense of irony. This version while it's on the other side, I actually looked up acid burns and it seems to be the most realistic, despite the holes, and this version Harvey went through both sides of the famous quote, from him slowly becoming the villain by murdering each of Thorne's men one by one (because even if you kill someone evil, it's still murder) and eventually realizes what he's doing and decides to testify in court, and eventually sacrifices himself to save Barbara. You were a great man dent. Godspeed you scared bastard. Can't wait to see what joker is like in season two. And maybe Bullock has a redemption arc in it, as it appears to be implied.
Two-Face has always been a sort of tragic villain. I would have liked to see a much longer episode showing exactly how damaged and vulnerable he is. He carries a great amount of self loathing. It doesn't matter if it's good vs evil or evil vs good, both fights really would have made for a dark sorrowful movie.
I wonder if Carnival event might have changed his mind on going through with the deal after taking “campaign funds”. Like consider that he brushed off the orphanage manager’s concerns to get to Rupert Thorne and seeing them still waiting outside after his visit with him showing shame when manager told him about the missing kids.
This is personally the most roughest design of Two Face I've ever seen. Sure there have been more designs more grotesque than this but I shudder at thinking about touching the holes in his face
I actually like how the inverse of his scar was done, sure the burnt side was on the other side, but the personality is the same as the other versions of dent, the left side is meek, passive, and somewhat good, while the right is violent and hateful
I also like he periodically acts almost exactly like he did prior to the incident (such as when manipulating Flass and Bullock), and when this happens neither side is given special attention. This implies that, like in the original DCAU, Harvey Dent is a three Alter System and not a two Alter System like in the Comics. He even refers to himself as "The Judge, Jury, and Executioner" when talking to throne, in direct reference to his third Alter, known as "The Judge".
These essays are literally so good, like, I want to print them out and eat them. I know that sounds weird but ever since discovering your channel I've watched nearly every essay. The research and time you put into these videos is SO GOOD and I'm glad you're getting the recognition you deserve!
You know, I’ve considered putting out an ebook collection of these essays. If I ever do get around to doing it you could eat that if you wanted 😂 All jokes aside, thanks!
The way Dent's scarred side is the weaker sadder personality reminds me of how, in "The strange case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", Hyde is small and deformed at first because Jekyll was basically a good man, so his darkness isn't very developed. Also, the fact that his evil side is the handsome one, I think reflects on how he put on this facade for the public while being corrupt within. I also like that they cuffer Barbara to his right side. Like you said, it was bold of them to kill him off, but I feel they did it well and it made way more sense than in Nolan'd version, especially blaming Batman when they coul've blamed the Joker. Instead, again, like you mentioned, it changes the way Batman approaches his mission, nicely represented by his change towards Alfred. That and him realizing that his beating Penguin only opened up things for Thorn to take over were real highlights for me. It mirrors the way Reeves's version changes by the end of his movie. I'll wait to say more once you make your video on Flass and Bullock, but I agree that their portrayal wasn't the best. I prefer it when they make Bullock a flawed person, but basically good. This version of both characters felt like BeBop and Rocksteady to me.
The next to last episode of the season where Harvey went on his rampage was my favorite one. It was certainly tragic, but also just very well done seeing him totally snap.
I loved this version of Two Face. But do you think if they ever bring a two face back like this one do you think they should changed the quarter to be a regular one. I know the two headed quarter is iconic to him but I feel like having that 50/50 chance of harvey killing somebody or the other guy sympathizing. I just fell like this version might fit because other versions the bad side is the one that takes over Harvey this one the good side is trying to take over/make him understand. Just a thought..
You never know! I was totally fine with this Two-Face not relying on a coin, but I suppose if they introduced another one it might feel contrived if he uses a coin.
@@SerumLake Yeah... I think Batman is trying to once again get away from the more silly gimmicky age and focus more on a more serious and realistic depiction of the characters while still retaining some semblence of the costumed mannerisms that the series is known for. It really feels like Caped Crusader is a love letter to BTAS fans who were kids then but have since grown up and thus want a more adult oriented version of the show. No more goofy gimmicks where a grown man insists on letting a coin manipulate people. The way he used the coin as just a pure mind game tool and ONLY used it against people who either he was trying to get one over jokingly or someone he's never seen before and never will see again was perfect. it made the coin look far less like a gimmick that'd be amusing to children and more like a weapon or tool he specifically uses to help make sense of a conflict. and the fact that when the victim didn't want the coin flipped, he shot the mugger in the leg and called the cops anyway was a solid metaphor to how indecisiveness can lead to a far worse outcome...or it could meet in the middle. Something any adult would deeply be thinking about, like "if I take the job, I'll have to move but I'll make more money, but if I don't take the job, my family stays but we remain in debt" and then you take the job ultimately, but the house near the new job site was taken while you were waiting and now you have to make a 3 hour commute each day to get to work. Despite the fact that you knew upfront you'd have to move if you took the job and still hesitated. Brilliant yet subtle metaphor.
I seems to me that Two - Face has unfortunately descended into malignant narcissism which adds extra layers to the complexity of his character. Big Harvey is completely taking him over, eating ever more of his personality. Watching him lose his mind slowly was a genuinely sad and tragic experience, and now he has become truly terrifying. Harvey Dent goes through the same corruption stages as many Icelandic politicians do who choose to go down the route of trying to change the system as the system changes them. What you do is, you throw the most corrupt people out of the system but stay careful signing a bare minimum of whatever the system asks you to sign. Harvey ignores this rule, dives into the system head - on and collapses into malignant narcissism and star - dom. The hope is that the Judge will show up and help turn Harvey in to prevent him from becoming a bigger danger than he has already become. Excellent analysis and breakdown of the new Harvey Dent!
The way the writers downplay his "two face" persona pre acid feels very similar to his character in the Long Halloween. Like his Long Halloween counterpart, Caped Crusader Harvey feels much more of like a "two faced politician', in how he'll seem reasonable one minute, but then some of his asides will be so wontonly cruel. I really think TLH(the comic version) was a base inspiration for this Harvey Dent
In episode 10 Dent sums up the relationship between Flas and Dent, and I'm sure the video analyzing episode 10 will dive into this and the culmination of the event the whole season has been building up to.
This has nothing to do with characterization, it’s purely asthetic, but I hate this two face design so much. I have hardcore tryptaphobia, and this design activates it on every level, and it’s also ANOTHER realistic Two-Face design, which I only ever thought worked in the Dark Knight.
@@mr.j3rs3y I think that outside of my personal problems, it is still a bad design. I really hate that we keep going with the realistic look for Two-Face in media where a more comical design would fit better. The realistic look worked for the Dark Knight because that was a very grounded and realistic take on the Batman world. It doesn’t work in something like Caped Crusader or Arkham, since both of those versions of Batman’s world feature a lot more fantastical elements, so having more comical designs for Two-Face would’ve worked much better, as well would’ve been more visually striking.
@@GPS_DS That’s completely fair. It’s not my favorite design for Two Face either, but I think it did a good job for what it was. The reasons I like it are because it feels more grounded, like “hey this could be someone I know, but I don’t think any less of them for any disfigurement or disabilities they may have gained due to an injury”. I also like how somber the right side of his face looks, much like how the “Other Guy” acts most of the time, his conscience and his guilt on full display. I don’t think it’s an amazing design or anything, but I like it for what it is! I’m sorry about your phobia btw.
I really did like this verson of Harvey so much, Diedrich Bade did such a amazing job voicing him. I still cannot belive that he also voiced Batman in The Brave And The Bold because they almost sound alike but not too much. Caped Crusader's Harvey is now my third favortie verson of Twoface of all time. Number two being The Long Halloween/Dark Victory verson and number 1 being BTAS verson. specking of The Long Halloween they referance Twoface's line from the comic; Caped Crusader: "Sorry, but i cant resite a two for one speciel" The Long Halloween: "A two for one speciel" Last thing i want to say is how that this verson of Throne felt way more threatening over his BTAS verson. Overall i really did enjoy all of Batman Caped Crusader and i hope we will get a season 2 sometime in the future.
I think he does a great job in The Brave and the Bold's more "serious" episodes that contrast how the rest of the show is done (not that I think the more campy episodes are bad mind). Chill of the Night being a standout episode about Batman confronting the man who murdered his parents while having the voices of Justice and Vengeance (voiced by Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill!) whispering in his ear as he pursues the mugger. Especially when he unmasks himself to the mugger and tells him he was the child of the couple he shot years ago. The mugger in a panic fleeing to tell the other big name Gotham villains that he is the reason Batman exists only for them to basically turn on him for it.
@@caldw615 yeah i saw a clip from that ep. Ive never watched The Brave And The Bold but i plan to. But im planning to watch all of BTAS and then Batman Beyond first but i havent gotten there yet because ive been pretty busy with other stuff and work.
@@nightenobsidian825 I would recommend checking it out. It's a massive love letter to all things Batman and comic books. It features a log of more obscure characters who haven't featured much in movies or previous shows and even the episodes that don't focus on Batman specifically are very creative. BTAS and Batman Beyond are good stRting points though to see where a lot of Batman media has been influenced.
I just wanted to throw it out there how great the creation of Two-Face was in BTAS. At that time all I knew about Batman came from the 1966 reruns and the two movies. So I had no idea what was coming. To me Harvey Dent was just another character filling a role, like Mayor Hill or Detective Bullock. Not in every episode but a character they would always bring up when needed. Plus the attempted revenge killing by Poison Ivy really cemented him as a side character that would just always be there. But I do appreciate the fact this show is clearly taking the ideas of these legacy characters but clearly blazing their own trail with them. It makes it that much more exciting to watch when you can never be sure what the outcome will be for even established characters.
To me it seems like Harvey Dent's personality broke in half leaving two distinct personalities with one side being vengeful and seeking out his own justice, and the other being his kindness, the Harvey Dent that wanted to help people, the broken part of a broken man as it were. Though I might be echoing what you said in your video.
I wonder if they will regret killing Harvey. Seemed like there was a lot of potential there, but I do have to remember this is a different approach than BTAS, a lot fewer episodes per season, so the news to reuse characters is reduced.
When the first photo where reveal I was a little skeptical of Two-Face’s new look . Mostly because he seem more real and lack the red burn colored. But when I got into it I loved and get it! It’s about a complex character getting turned into a more conflicted person because of tragedy . The whole acid scene felt like a way to making him really see the corruption of Gotham and take a vigilante approach bigger than Batman . While it was a shock to see him go so fast . I think it serve as a complete character arc and make Batman change for the better.
I think, in its own twisted way, Harvey's tragedy was the most freeing moment of his life His unscarred side felt like a mask was lifted because he no longer has the societal expectations a DA running for Mayor has to live by so he can finally say and do what he has always wanted. He's already a 'monster' so what's the use in acting 'normal'? The Other Guy however feels like...I dunno, on my binge watch perhaps because it went into the night I felt like he was the physical embodiment of Harvey's empathy finally forming because he was caused by the first time his nature left him with a long lasting concequence if that makes any sense
I think that this version of Two-Face was very interesting, but I was dissapointed that he won't appear in the future. And I think that's my biggest gripe with the show. The villains are intersting, but it looks like they'll be one and done villains that won't appear in the future, except maybe Catwoman and Harley. There is no way Penguin will get out of jail, and her criminal empire is done, and I doubt we'll see Onomatopeia and Gentleman Ghost again. Maybe Clayface returns, but I don't know in what capicity they can use him in the future.
It's a very human approach acid attacks are terrifying but for a mob it makes sense completely I'm so glad they moved away from the coin it was cool but definitely a bit overplayed this was such a perfect usage of him
One other thing about the moment where Batman goes after Flass, Arnold straight up tried to say he was justified in killing Harvey just because he was a cop. In fact here’s the line “Hey, hey, hey, hold on! That was a righteous shoot. You can't do this! You're just some lousy vigilante! I'm a goddamn cop!” Goes to show how much of a slimy hypocrite he is.
Love the video, and the show has been a fascinating take so far. Devil's advocate though, the styles of writing I usually enjoyed from past versions of the villains, wasn't ugly = evil, it was people who are different being beaten down and treated like monsters until they inevitably break under the pressure. Their villainy comes out more as a tragedy of circumstance and environment, not because they were inherently bad all along. You beat down on someone enough, they will eventually lash out, and it's hard to call them evil for biting back after what was likely years of abuse.
I love this series, the empathetic treatment offered to dent is so warming, I concur it’s a mad spiral of negative pressure of Gotham’s toxic social environment. Personally it’s comforting seeing the empathy you offer in these videos, as having been observing too much of pop culture the toxic masculinity is disgustingn particular around the senseless binary it often comes to; however I feel your videos always portray a nuanced and inspiring narrative. Also, I LOVE the psychosis two face portrays in this.
Love thwir slow buildup of Harvey Dent. From a showwriting perspective love batman pushed him, and I liked his arc (especially the unexpected part with zitos gf). I still feel bad for him (and irl wouldnt support the rampage), and think he was gone too soon. Grear video, cant wait for b&f!
REALLY GOOD though I wish you had highlighted the micro aggression Bruce...or should I say Batman when he tried to get Harvey to testify. Also details that you might cover in the next video is how flas and bullock talk about cracking heads to find out who tossed acid on Harveys face is preceded by a scene with Batman doing that very thing.
I like this version because it would be how someone would feel after a life altering event happens. You aren't going to get revenge or be scary, you are going to lose your confidence and question why it happened to you which would lead to constantly blaming yourself
I find it interesting that Harvey’s scarred side is the one that doesn’t want to hurt anyone. It’s the side that thinks he deserves every terrible thing that’s happened to him because he himself did terrible things. It’s the scarred side that brings all the “ugly” things he did to light.
Brilliant summary of Two-Face. I wasn’t entirely on board for the show as a whole, but Two-Face was a notable achievement and a depiction I really dug. I still think they could’ve done a bit more with him before they cut him loose, but at least Harley will return later to do further development. This is easily an all time favourite rendition of the character for me, and I liked how they inversed his sides and changed the motif of the coin to actually keep its original purpose - as you say, illusion of choice, but also the illusion of two faces. There’s really only one face, one persona, and the whole concept of the false face is just that. I personally don’t think there was a split personality in this version. There’s just two sides of Harvey, but both are Harvey. The acid just burned away the persona to reveal the real Harvey underneath.
There’s nothing wrong with changing a couple of characters.I feel like it’s actually a good idea,You can’t have the same thing for lunch every day sometimes you crave something new something unexpected that’s kind of the same with media nowadays.
Well- that's what btas exactly did though. They give all the characters, most were lost or underused, an actual purpose and decent characterization, hence why everyone loves Btas and has changed the bat mythos for the better. I can't say the same for Caped Crusaders….
Great video! Two-Face is my favourite member of Batman's rogues gallery too, and Caped Crusader's take on him is one of the very best. While I noticed that he was scarred on the right side of his face unlike in most portrayals, I didn't pick up on the fact that the scarred side was also the penitent side, even though it was right there on the screen. Time for a rewatch!
I know some are mad they excluded it, but honestly I was so glad they didn't do his stupid coin gimmick, instead making it so he'd offer, but it would always land on heads. So really it was up to him, but hes still fighting himself so whether someone dies can still go either way.
Feel the same. They didn’t make Harvey rely on it like a crutch, it was treated as it should have been: the tool in his choices. Very refreshing. It’s not a weakness that can be exploited. Only other time I think I’ve never seen Two-Face so reliant on the coin was the William Shatner portrayal of Two-Face.
Honestly, I always thought Harvey sacrificed himself for Barbara because he acted out of instinctive selflessness, showing after all that was said and done and despite his doubts, there was still some good in him. I mean, Bruce and Barbara wanted to do everything they could to help him. Sure, he was a bit of an asshole, but he wasn’t as bad as Thorne, Bullock, or Flass, and right before becoming Two-Face, he did the right thing. After he murdered the criminals who harmed him, he felt genuinely guilty for killing them, believing he didn’t deserve to be redeemed, yet in the end, he gave his life because he perhaps he knew unconsciously that he could. Remember his iconic quote from The Dark Knight (2008): “You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain”
The newest Batman adaptations almost always make Harvey corrupt from the start. Which to be fair, is more realistic but is a downgrade for the character and his tragedy. Like when they made Mr. Freeze a crazy stalker of Nora in the comics. That was a terrible choice.
Why do I suspect that this series will end with Bruce / Batman making the ultimate sacrifice to save the City? His estate will be sold / liquidated, and the wealth distributed among the people... ...Barbara will become the new D.A. ....Motoya will become the new Commissioner. ... and pardon Harley Quinn naturally. ...and the Penguin will becme the mayor after realizing that it was an unfair patriarchy that drove her to a world of crime in the first place.. 😇
Interesting how Harvey’s fall in Caped Crusader had and opposite effect in Batman than the comic version. When Harvey became Two Face in the comics (more specifically, the Long Halloween storyline) it result in Batman becoming more darker, cold and isolated from others. It was only when he adopt Dick Grayson that he start recover and open up to his new partner. In Caped Crusader, Harvey’s transformation helped Batman to begin to open up and accept the allies in his life Alfred, Montoya and the Gordons.
I think the best part about this series is how it took the comic continuity and bastardized it (But in a good way) I find that the show itself is perhaps one of the best, and the best indication of this is Penguin. Of all the characters in this show, she was the most changed, and I love it. I had a horrible mother and I found myself hating Penguin almost as much. All in all, a good show. If I could make a recommendation, I think that a video looking into Flashpoint Paradox's Batman... for the funny of course
I really think Harvey Dent should be introduced in the next Matt Reeves The "Batman" eventually to become the villain in the 3rd. He's complex and interesting, and I think Reeves could bring him to the big screen again with a better perspective.
I did like how this Harvey wasn't a total paragon of justice like other portryals. He was honestly kind of a bully, but was still able to recognise when to do the right thing.
This move was VERY bold to kill two face a very iconic character but they done it right and that’s why this episode is so good two face is more paranoid than vengful
I didn’t really get the vibe that Harvey had DID. To me it felt like Harvey had some form of bipolar disorder. Although I might just be projecting. My experience with it has actually been quite similar. Rapidly changing levels of aggression, feeling like you’re a different version at points. Violence followed by guilt. Never to this extent for me ofc but it all seems super familiar
Bipolar-inspired "split personalities" in media are honestly mistaken for DID way too often. They are just not the same. It gets especially silly when writers themselves mistake them and retcon one into another(An example that I picked up on fairly quick but the relevant community somehow never did is a character in Fire Emblem Three Houses that was, probably unintentionally, retconned in the next release after). Though I guess it is weirdly true to life because actual bipolar was often mistaken for DID in the past too.
@@lpfan4491 lol true. It’s just Harvey seems perfectly aware of what he’s doing. Even when he saves Barbara it feels like he genuinely cares. It’s just a split second later he doesn’t understand why he did it
@@caldw615 I mean, it can't be, right? The term hasn't been in common usage for a few years because the old meaning was shifted to DID and the "new meaning" for the bipolar-adjacent writing trope was coined by me I'm pretty sure.(Which is why I put it in quotes. It's not an "official" term)
@@lpfan4491 It's not an official term but it is still heavily associated with it. Hell, the most famous examples that stick in people's memories about the "split" personality concept are clearly leaning into that idea. Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde is probably the most infuential example and it went on to inspire other famous characters like The Hulk and Two Face. Even in modern movies the film "Split" even has the word in the title too.
I quite like how in this one his deformed scarred side is meant to be seen with pity than horror, almost like Quasimodo in a way. Also despite being an inversion to the usual Dent he is pretty similar to Two-Face in the Golden Age comics, where his descent to villainhood stemmed from his self-consciousness about his disfigurement. I can also see they took cues from Dent in The Dark Knight... at least in this one he does some Two-Face stuff.
They really did subvert expectations by having Harvey be the quote/unquote "Bad Half", while "The Other Guy" is Harvey's better nature (sort of like an Anti-TwoFace, or a version of the character that you would expect to see in Owlman's universe.)
You I thought his Two Face would look like the William Shanter version where he is green and has anyone seen the Batman 89 comics where he is Barbara’s love interest? Also there were a few versions of Harvey Dent who bad long before two face like in Earth one, Beware the Batman and Telltale even if you do save him.
Telltale Harvey wasn't bad before he became Two-Face. He got injected with something that caused his other personality to surface. Harvey was still the good personality. The difference is that you can save him from physical disfigurement, but the Two-Face personality surfaces no matter what you do.
Honestly i really like how dent was handled from bad guy to good guy to bad guy again, i feel his decent was actually more believable considering the time period of the show. And Dedrich Bader did a great job going from a smug to a broken tone. I also like that they made the split personality subtle nice touch imo.
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Honestly, there is some fun irony in a character not having a downfall because they were corrupt, but rather because they actually did the right thing when it matters. Anti-karma basically.
A unique version of "Redemption Equals Death" then.
No good deed goes unpunished in Gotham.
Well, he did do the wrong thing- accepting Thorne's money in the first place. His downfall is still karmic, but he had the chance to commit to being wrong and get away with it, which is interesting.
@@parkerdixon-word6295 His downfall is triggered by his first attempt of doing the right thing (standing up to Thorne, sending his goon to trial). He wouldn't have suffered any of this if he kept obeying Thorne, so it's anti-karmic.
@@Espadasilenciosa Or he could have not taken the money in the first place, and I think it's also worth paying attention to the fact that, after getting attacked, the first things he did were to drop out of the Mayoral Race and resign as DA- loosing the political career that he took Thorne's money in the first place to maintain.
The punishment fits best as punishment for that crime specifically, but Dent didn't fully commit to it, and was thus punished.
One thing I really like is how the design isn't completely split down the middle like before, instead his skin color is the same which makes him notably have two sides, but those two sides have a grey area in the middle. This Harvey is much more one person than previous iterations. He's two sides of one person, instead of two people in one body. He's extremely human, and so that lack of a clear split is very in line with thay concept
Agreed. this more realistic depiction makes him a lot more sympathetic and likeable as a character. It doesn't kind of rely on the assumption of what split personality is (which is extremely rare for a person to genuinely have 2 minds in one body, most of the time it is just mood swings), and thus they were able to tell a more realistic story with him that Batman fans could appreciate a lot more. Not relying on gimmicks.
two sides of one person > two people in one body. A coins two sides dont represent two separate coins.
I dunno, to me it's just a more realistic portrayal of a discussion of his facial scar.
... I'd not use that Human term for this one, don't want the people with alters receive that injury of bein' called subhuman.
@@harrietr.5073ok but the way they portrayed his alter was very inhuman that’s not really how an alter works in real life it’s very sensationalised for the show
Interesting that he chooses to rig the coin in favor of the "softer" punishments.
It might be an early indicator of his vengeful and softer side conflicting. He would always find the worst punishment... but choose the lighter one out of temperment.
He would stay out of the shady dealings (until this one), but would also turn a blind eye to it. He seeked power, but lived rather humbly. Always tempering his crueler side with his softer side.
Honestly, like how Commissioner Gordan was perhaps terrible for other police forces but was perfect for Gotham, this Dent may have been a perfect attorney for Gotham.
I think one of the design elements that puts more emphasis on Dent’s “clean” side being the violent one is that his scarred face having a permanent frown, but the camera angles and lighting make it a sorrowful look. That he’s sad that he can’t stop lashing out, that he loathes his own actions.
His scarred half is such a sweetheart. It got me thinking about the BTAS episode where Harvey was gonna get this very important surgery to fix his face, and everyone was either trying to protect him or standing respectfully out of the way. I wondered how that would work with this new version.
One of the saddest and darkest comics of BTAS has Harvey get the surgery to fix his face and fall in love with his surgeon Madeline. When the two are about to get married, her sister Madison(a twin)returns to her life and is very much "good twin, bad twin". Madeline reveals she didn't talk about her because she was afraid it might awaken Harvey's obsession with two again.
Madison seduces Harvey and he sleeps with her before deciding to stay with her sister and saying he'll deny it if Madison tells, but Madison gets angry and leaves. Harvey worries about what she said as she left about Madeline stealing everything she wanted(apparently, she had once broken pieces of a pocket mirror into her Madelines milk at their birthday party, as she hated her sister that much). Harvey returns home to find that Madison murdered Madeline and wrote "Just the two of us"in her blood on the wall. Harvey knows he wants her dead, but knows he can't kill her, as Harvey Dent isn't a killer. He then picks up a piece of burning wood from the fire, saying "I know someone who is."(Two Face).
When he confronts Madison and shows his new face(much worse than the animated series with the burns)and asks if she loves him still, Madison confirms it and says that her sister didn't love the real him, she loved the watered down normal version, Two Face kisses her and thinks how he couldn't kill her, but then notes how much she looks like her sister before shooting her dead in anger. The story, being told in narration, reveals he is telling the story to Batman, waiting with the dead Madison cradled in his arms, waiting for Batman to take him back to Arkham where he belongs.
I love how this Harvys scar design is more somber and regretfull in contrast to the previous, more angry and menacing looks
yeah it's perpetually frowning, I think it's the eyes
Probably because standard incarnations of Two-Face were a noble man who became jaded by the corruption of Gotham and gave into his anger that he always kept bottled up.
THIS version of Two-Face was a corrupt man who deep down felt guilty at compromising his once noble beliefs, and once he became Two-Face, that guilt and self loathing bubbled to the surface.
I like that Two-Face is basically Batman's fault, and that Batman acknowledges this throughout the episodes. I like that Batman isn't "healthy" in this show and is often very toxic to those around him in service of his crusade. Seeing him grow out of that is a very enjoyable experience to watch, because it almost feels like we're watching him grow into who would eventually become BTAS Batman, someone that is genuinely compassionate even towards his enemies, but deep down still has those scars that will rear their ugly head once again when he gets into his 70s and 80s.
They could of done that without
Messing batman up.
@elongatedmanforever1252 it's called character development. Also this is an obvious noir style take, and often in this genere the protagonist is deeply flawed, and has to juggle his own personal demons, along with dealing with his enemies.
Frankly this batmanif probably a breath of fresh air, compared to the impossibly overprepared unbeatable chessmaster we've been dealing with as of late.
@@StuHol-jb1hh Pretty much my feelings in a nutshell, lol. For the past almost 20 years, Batman has been right about almost everything, and often 5 steps ahead of pretty much everyone else. It's a breath of fresh air to see him be fallible and even get stuff wrong, especially since this is very much an "early career" Batman.
But his flaws go even deeper than that, and I think we get a better look at how a kid growing up sustained on vengeance would actually turn out when starting his crusade. He still has compassion for folks like Barb, Gordon, and Leslie, but he's still very detached, even from Alfred, his closest confidant, who he never called by his first name until the Gentleman Ghost episode, which I think speaks volumes to how broken he really was, but also how much he's growing over the course of the season.
@@elongatedmanforever1252 There is a diffrence between showing someone morally grey on the journey to improve and going the "I'm the goddang batman!"-route. This is not really ruining the character as much as using a diffrent formula to get the same answer.
@@lpfan4491NO NOT ALL STAR BATMAN,😂 NOT AGAIN
The "Disfigured Half Is The Good Half" is heavily hinted at in The Dark Knight Returns, where Two-Face, after getting surgery to fix his face, goes on to commit crimes without the 2 theme. Fixing the disfigured face didn't get rid of the bad personality, it removed the good one.
Both sides match now
2 face is very like those actual acid attacks you would hear about a few years ago (i think it was a few years ago, it wasn't recent but there was one time a influx happened)
It was a very huge thing a few years ago i believe in the UK and other places had very bad acid attacks where mostly women were attacked with acid in their faces, usually by men who wanted marriage, the men would do this to destroy the woman's chances of having a normal life and marriage, and unfortunately the community looks at the woman in shame because of disfigurment and because of old traditional reasons, it is very sad and awful, especially when the woman isn't even actually a woman but a girl, there was a incident i heard where a man asked for marriage i believe and the mom and girl didn't accept and the man broke inside the house did a acid attack as revenge, i don't know much about the causes of men getting acid attacked, only about women and the reasons i hear why they get attacked- sorry for ramble, harvey dent just reminds me of those awful influx incidents, don't take this 100% as fact, this is just me hearing and remebering stuff, im not well versed in this
Edit: forgotten to mention that, in a way, Dent's acid attack was a way to humiliate and demean him and his position and to harm him, it was act of pure hate and violence like with irl usual reasons for acid attacks: Revenge, because someone did them wrong in some way or form, like something as simple as rejecting someone's advances or, in this case, because Dent went against Thorne, Dent isn't innocent, but he is still a victim
update: found out one of the reasons men getting acid attacked, I believe it is land disputes, and individuals getting attacked over political affiliation i believe
Yes, from terrorists. It's still going on, just no longer covered.
I totally was a real thing. I think it mostly happened in 2014 to 2016, can I distinctly remember being traumatized by some of the images I encountered on Tumblr. Had to unfollow a few people for that but God, I've never forgotten it.
It's such a horrible crime. No matter if the attacker is caught or even given capital punishment, the damage they have inflicted on their victim's life can't be undone. I can't imagine the strength one would have to live past that trauma and the shameful treatment of their own community in the aftermath.
@@NoirRaven I remember seeing a photo once, It is very scary but it's even worse with the context, I don't know why there was a influx in 2014 - 2016 though, it's crazy how evil people can be they are willing to use acid on people
Also, ty for saying the years this influx happened, I literally couldn't remember when this happened
Diversity at work LMAO 💀
One thing I think was handled well was people's reactions to Harvey Dent. Most people did not seem bothered by him after he was injured, it was mostly his own mental projections playing tricks on him. Plus Harvey was never one to settle with doing the bare minimum. There are many issues I had with Caped Crusader, but having the balls to make Two Face kind of a fence sitter turned self destructive impulse killer was pretty cool.
As a Twoface fan… I just don't like this version as he has the same generic “grrr I'm the bad guy” that so many recent Twoface interpretations have. I like Two-Face is that he's the victim of the ‘Lucifer effect’. Essentially, a tragic fall of a well-meaning but flawed man who TRIES to be the very best, but falls at the end. Harvey’s tragedy is what makes him so interesting, and the fact that even as two-face, he STILL has some semblance of his old self with how he talks about his friend, Bruce Wayne in a very positive wistful light. Caped Crusader’s two face the lack substance that made him interesting.
Great video. I liked this version of Harvey Dent/Two Face and his character arc this season. I'm glad they made him different than the BTAS version (which is iconic but wouldn't fit into this show's universe). The change in making his good side the physically scarred one was good, and I like Bruce Timm's reason for that. One thing you mentioned that I thought was especially important was his impact on Bruce/Batman at the end of the last episode.
Looking forward to the video on Flass and Bullock.
Yeah, ironically all the other versions of Harvey were sympathetic from the start and became corrupt as a reflection of their inability to handle themselves, but I'd argue this version of Harvey is by far the most sympathetic. Even though he was an arrogant and corrupt man from the start and his true nature is a vengeful person. The fact that the acid caused him to relapse and consider himself a freak and failure kind of indicates he in some way "wanted" to get better but was just unable to represes the way he was before. Almost like he's corrupt because of the system he was part of, rather than because of some personal vice.
I think having the scarred side of him be the side that laments and feels sorry for himself and others was also a nice touch. Reminds me of Gordy when he was about to die and asked Hawkgirl if there's an afterlife and Hawkgirl, not being TOTALLY heartless told him that there was. The scarred design really was an EXCELLENT metaphor to how we judge people for how they are at thier best, strong, prideful, but when a man is beaten to their worst, that's when the reality really kicks in and we might really see something get through to them before it's "Too late". It's a strong reason why people are against the Death penalty and prefer Life as with Life, it may give them a chance to return to being a good person and make up for their horrible sins and kind of shows people that just "killing left and right" shouldn't be the default option (even if some people are so wicked and evil they really seem like they deserve it, but the thing is, they're already captured and in jail. So short of releasing them due to ineptitude of the justice system, there should be no reason they cause a ruckus again.) A good visual metaphor there without spelling it out. Not that we need to feel sorry for corrupt politicians or lawyers, but that often what we want to do to them, the face that we want to punch might not still deserve it when it's already been punched to death. Otherwise, it makes justice look like the monster and misses the point of punishment in the first place, to prevent future crime, not justify beating someone to death for our own blood lust. I'd argue that while the other Two faces were more entertaining or interesting, this one definitely has to be my favorite for being the most "real". Not turning into a monster because he was disfigured, but turning remorseful as a result of it, knowing that all that happened and his spiral only happened because of the things he let happen around him. Rather than the AWFUL Vengence spree he went on because Batman saved him instead of his girlfriend.... Like talk about becoming corrupt cause you didn't win the lottery. It doesn't make me sympathize at all no matter how good he was before. But like said, at least BTAS's version was TRYING to do the right thing.
I just personally have a problem with blaming his break down entirely on mental health issues cause it's a very difficult subject to handle properly and a LOT of terrible people use mental health as an excuse or defense for bad behavior when it's clear they're just saying that cause it gives them sympathy, rather than focusing on the ROOT cause of the problem. I think Harvey may have captured that, but the Caped Crusader's version is by far the most realistic depiction of mental health cause it doesn't use the mental health as the BASIS of his problems, but rather, as just an internal conflict based on all that happened to him that could be called "mental health" It's unclear of therapy could help him, but it was clear that the acid spray woke him up.
I started watching gotham a few weeks ago on on like the first episode of season 3 and I'm pretty sure flass was that bald black guy who montas partner weird how they just randomly left but in that he's not corrupt attall no where near it
Something I found interesting in the last two episodes was that a few scenes had Harvey suddenly lash out at Barbara or Bruce, before apologizing and claiming that it was "the other guy" saying it - but each time it happened, he was in a profile shot, with the left, untarnished side of his face in focus. Like he's shifting the blame for his outbursts, whether knowingly or not.
After the death of Harvey Dent and Barbara Gordon, who witnessed his death, I guess Commissioner Gordon will finally be able to fire Flass and send him to prison where he belongs.
Oh God will we get a Bullock redemption arc?!
You know, even some relatively wealthy bachelors prefer apartments, because they don't need the extra space, they're easier to keep clean and organized without needing to hire maids, and you don't even have to keep a lawn mowed. Even rich couples and roommates will often live in penthouse suites.
The dinner scene reminds me of that one version of two face who got plastic surgery to fix his scarred half but was convinced they had actually just scarred the other half instead and everyone was playing a cruel joke on him by pretending he looks normal now.
That's so interesting
The Dark Knight Returns. And yes, that comic was the first story that suggested the scarred side of Two Face was actually the good Harvey Dent while the unscarred side was the evil Two Face.
@@evanbao93 I'm still mad the animated film scene of DKR doesn't have Batman embrace Harvey as he does in the comic.
I was disappointed that they killed off Two-Face so quickly after he became. It's The Dark Knight all over again! But it was a good story with an impactful end so I cannot be totally mad about it. And of course it's better than not having Two-Face at all.
Still, given that it was Thorne's fault that Dent became Two-Face, it'd have been very apt had Two-Face become Thorne's rival in the organised crime world. I guess stuff like that has (at least kinda) been done before and this version of the story is more subversive.
@@Scrinwaipwr Dent becoming a rival to Thorne to spite him is a very cool idea tbh, im sad Dent died as well, at least he had a big role in some way
This isnt animated series, its a noir villains dies heroes dies
Gotta be realistic
@@joshuagraham2843 realistic? it isn't realistic for villains to die heroes. It's far easier to become a worse person than a better person. Most people who become villains stay villains.
You can call it noir, you can even call it good, sure, but calling it more realistic is naive. That's not how the real world normally works at all.
And those attempts of being subversive are just a mediocre way to actually not commit ANYTHING while trying not anything to be deep at all💀
@@happysocialmoth1197 not sure what you mean, especially by "commit"... if you mean a long-term story arc, Harvey Dent's ran completely through series 1 and will likely impact other characters for rest of the story, especially Batman and Barbara, on that note there's also been Batman's emotional and social growth and I'm sure series 2 will have Bullock and Flass facing consequences for their corrupt acts during series 1, especially their involvement in Harvey Dent's murder.
And with all the aforementioned elements plus more from social commentary to Easter eggs plus plenty of other things Luke mentions in his video essays, I disagree with your notion that Caped Crusader lacks depth.
Until you can provide some examples, to me you sound like you just hate things deviating too far from the canon to which your are used. I hope you're not one of those weirdos who just saw Penguin is female this time and wrote the show off as "too woke" or some bollocks like that.
This is making me want to rewatch the episode. I really didn’t pay enough attention and now I need to rewatch it again with the new context. As always thank you so much for the content. Really love all of your videos.
Definitely give it another watch. I really liked how they developed Harvey over the course of the season.
I think ep 9 with Two Face on a rampage is the Best Episode of the Series.
BTAS was what demented two face as my favorite Batman villain, and this show had a really fresh take on him, I wasn’t so sure about the redesign when it was teased but the way he was portrayed in this show sold it for me, so well done!
“Cemented”
I meant cemented lol
I really like how he offered to flip for the muggers life using his two-headed coin. In that scene, it didn't look like he was trying to be in control, it looked to me more like he was almost asking someone to stop him.
“Four of us against a tide. I’ll take those odds.”
As a big fan of the show Boardwalk Empire, I loved that they got Vincent Piazza to voice Tony Zito, as he feels just like his character from Boardwalk, Lucky Luciano. They even gave him the dropping eye that he had in the show (and the real life gangster had)
That’s a cool tidbit I hadn’t picked up on, thanks for sharing!
The droopy eye, the Voice, I knew I recognized him.
0:55 This specific scene of Harvey just screams the kind of influence Ren & Stimpy had on the 90s, specifically the kind of edge the 90s had, the “Barf Age”, as some may call it.
4:50 For those wondering why Two Face says queer it's because the word used to mean strange or unusual.
No it’s because he is gay >:3
it's funny how he manages to say it twice in this episode all whilst looking like a pride flag himself
strangest ally in the world
@@thebaseandtriflingcreature174 He does look like a flag! Now I can't unsee it.
Its worth mentioning that the voice actor of Harvy in Caped crusader is the same voice actor who played Batman in the Brave and the Bold. Emphasising how much like Bruce is to Harvey, and the duality of public vs private persona. Also a lot of people like to mention how Harvey is a Mirror to Bruce, this is actually a genuine mirror. Its ironic the most honest and justice orientated Batman voice actor is playing Harvey Dent, one of the more complex characters in Batmans rogue gallery, but also one that reflects not only Batman, but Bruce wayne as well.
Won’t deny I enjoyed him snapping. I fully expected him to be incompetent but he was cleaning house everywhere he went and took on thorn single handedly.
Can’t say I like the face though, it’s the teeth they don’t look lined up properly.
I had an idea of two face having paralysis on the right side and wearing a mask with a neutral expression that way his real face could be more expressive and ironically looking less human over time compared to what he started as.
Yeah, the acid melted face was always grossly exaggerated to make him look like half monster, but I think this version being far more realistic (even than the ugly movie version) felt like it helped us relate to the character more. Acid wouldn't turn your skin green or your eyes reptillan, and you wouldn't survive if your skin was melted off entirely like the IRL movie version. Having it kind of with holes in it, messed up gums and torn skin but still there felt more like what'd really happen to a man who had that happen, and arguably made him more sympathetic as a character, since the point of this Two face was to be a lot more subtle about his split personality so we focus more on who the character is and not what his "gimmick" is. Thus making him a lot more .... "well written" I'd say.
@@burntgrahamcracker2866 i always thought the same about his teeth.
I really appreciate the fact that even before the acid attack, Harvey is very often shown with his face in profile, 90 degrees away from the camera. Whether it's him looking off to the side or just where he's facing, it's nice to see that the animators clearly seem to know what they're doing.
I did like the touch that Two face was not over the top disfigured like the usual two face design but more like enough dis figuration that he sticks out. Topped with the disfigured side looking so sad and regretful instead of showing angry all the time. Showing the other guy truly regretting his choices that led him to where he is now.
One thing to note about two face in batman the animated series is that he assigned his bad half to his disfigured side to show his desire to be free of it, and that caused his other half to manifest through it. Beauty may be the perfect mask for monsters, but if you place negative emotions on something like a disfigurement, it will become exactly what you make of it. Our bodies take our own feedback in to consideration when trying to heal, and cursing something that was beyond your bodies ability to fully heal will always have psychological consequences.
One thing I like about this version of Harvey Dent is that the other guy still manifests in the disfigurement as everything that Harvey Dent wants to be free of. It's just that this Harvey wants to be free of the timid nature held down by guilt we see in "the other guy".
2:47, the character design on the female reporter reminds me of the Fleisher Studios Lois Lane from the Superman Cartoons
100% intentional, I’m sure of it!
@@SerumLake I believe that too, if they could get away with that I bet they would have done a Clark Kent look alike
That awesome she does look like Lois Lane from Max Fleisher Studios Superman cartoon
Two face was always my primary favorite villain, I always enjoy every iteration that emerged (media wise at least) from the iconic black and white design in the animated series to the underrated telltale series, to the excellent portrayal Aaron Eckhart in the dark night.
Mainly because he was probably the villain Batman sympathizes the most with given, I always felt like he should have been the dark Knight's arch nemesis instead of the joker, as he and Bruce always had some history together, and seeing his friend become the very thing he tried to fight against really is a beautiful sense of irony.
This version while it's on the other side, I actually looked up acid burns and it seems to be the most realistic, despite the holes, and this version Harvey went through both sides of the famous quote, from him slowly becoming the villain by murdering each of Thorne's men one by one (because even if you kill someone evil, it's still murder) and eventually realizes what he's doing and decides to testify in court, and eventually sacrifices himself to save Barbara.
You were a great man dent. Godspeed you scared bastard.
Can't wait to see what joker is like in season two. And maybe Bullock has a redemption arc in it, as it appears to be implied.
Two-Face has always been a sort of tragic villain. I would have liked to see a much longer episode showing exactly how damaged and vulnerable he is. He carries a great amount of self loathing. It doesn't matter if it's good vs evil or evil vs good, both fights really would have made for a dark sorrowful movie.
I wonder if Carnival event might have changed his mind on going through with the deal after taking “campaign funds”.
Like consider that he brushed off the orphanage manager’s concerns to get to Rupert Thorne and seeing them still waiting outside after his visit with him showing shame when manager told him about the missing kids.
Fun fact, Diedrich Bader, the voice actor for Harvey Dent, also voiced Batman in Batman: The Brave and the Bold
This is personally the most roughest design of Two Face I've ever seen. Sure there have been more designs more grotesque than this but I shudder at thinking about touching the holes in his face
I actually like how the inverse of his scar was done, sure the burnt side was on the other side, but the personality is the same as the other versions of dent, the left side is meek, passive, and somewhat good, while the right is violent and hateful
I also like he periodically acts almost exactly like he did prior to the incident (such as when manipulating Flass and Bullock), and when this happens neither side is given special attention.
This implies that, like in the original DCAU, Harvey Dent is a three Alter System and not a two Alter System like in the Comics. He even refers to himself as "The Judge, Jury, and Executioner" when talking to throne, in direct reference to his third Alter, known as "The Judge".
I like that Alfred calls Bruce out on what he did (unintentionally) to Harvey.
These essays are literally so good, like, I want to print them out and eat them. I know that sounds weird but ever since discovering your channel I've watched nearly every essay. The research and time you put into these videos is SO GOOD and I'm glad you're getting the recognition you deserve!
You know, I’ve considered putting out an ebook collection of these essays. If I ever do get around to doing it you could eat that if you wanted 😂
All jokes aside, thanks!
The way Dent's scarred side is the weaker sadder personality reminds me of how, in "The strange case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", Hyde is small and deformed at first because Jekyll was basically a good man, so his darkness isn't very developed. Also, the fact that his evil side is the handsome one, I think reflects on how he put on this facade for the public while being corrupt within. I also like that they cuffer Barbara to his right side. Like you said, it was bold of them to kill him off, but I feel they did it well and it made way more sense than in Nolan'd version, especially blaming Batman when they coul've blamed the Joker. Instead, again, like you mentioned, it changes the way Batman approaches his mission, nicely represented by his change towards Alfred. That and him realizing that his beating Penguin only opened up things for Thorn to take over were real highlights for me. It mirrors the way Reeves's version changes by the end of his movie.
I'll wait to say more once you make your video on Flass and Bullock, but I agree that their portrayal wasn't the best. I prefer it when they make Bullock a flawed person, but basically good. This version of both characters felt like BeBop and Rocksteady to me.
I like how Dent sees through Bruce's facade when he calls him the biggest pretender.
Another well done video essay. Hats off to you sir!
Thank you 🙇♂️
The next to last episode of the season where Harvey went on his rampage was my favorite one. It was certainly tragic, but also just very well done seeing him totally snap.
I loved this version of Two Face. But do you think if they ever bring a two face back like this one do you think they should changed the quarter to be a regular one. I know the two headed quarter is iconic to him but I feel like having that 50/50 chance of harvey killing somebody or the other guy sympathizing. I just fell like this version might fit because other versions the bad side is the one that takes over Harvey this one the good side is trying to take over/make him understand. Just a thought..
You never know! I was totally fine with this Two-Face not relying on a coin, but I suppose if they introduced another one it might feel contrived if he uses a coin.
@@SerumLake Yeah... I think Batman is trying to once again get away from the more silly gimmicky age and focus more on a more serious and realistic depiction of the characters while still retaining some semblence of the costumed mannerisms that the series is known for. It really feels like Caped Crusader is a love letter to BTAS fans who were kids then but have since grown up and thus want a more adult oriented version of the show. No more goofy gimmicks where a grown man insists on letting a coin manipulate people. The way he used the coin as just a pure mind game tool and ONLY used it against people who either he was trying to get one over jokingly or someone he's never seen before and never will see again was perfect. it made the coin look far less like a gimmick that'd be amusing to children and more like a weapon or tool he specifically uses to help make sense of a conflict. and the fact that when the victim didn't want the coin flipped, he shot the mugger in the leg and called the cops anyway was a solid metaphor to how indecisiveness can lead to a far worse outcome...or it could meet in the middle. Something any adult would deeply be thinking about, like "if I take the job, I'll have to move but I'll make more money, but if I don't take the job, my family stays but we remain in debt" and then you take the job ultimately, but the house near the new job site was taken while you were waiting and now you have to make a 3 hour commute each day to get to work. Despite the fact that you knew upfront you'd have to move if you took the job and still hesitated. Brilliant yet subtle metaphor.
I love this iteration of 2 face seriously complex. The last 2 episode were 2 of my favorites thanks to him
I seems to me that Two - Face has unfortunately descended into malignant narcissism which adds extra layers to the complexity of his character. Big Harvey is completely taking him over, eating ever more of his personality. Watching him lose his mind slowly was a genuinely sad and tragic experience, and now he has become truly terrifying. Harvey Dent goes through the same corruption stages as many Icelandic politicians do who choose to go down the route of trying to change the system as the system changes them. What you do is, you throw the most corrupt people out of the system but stay careful signing a bare minimum of whatever the system asks you to sign. Harvey ignores this rule, dives into the system head - on and collapses into malignant narcissism and star - dom. The hope is that the Judge will show up and help turn Harvey in to prevent him from becoming a bigger danger than he has already become. Excellent analysis and breakdown of the new Harvey Dent!
Two face is definitely a favorite from BTAS. It is an interesting take on the character.
I appreciate the alternate take of the character. I like a little spice here and then.
The way the writers downplay his "two face" persona pre acid feels very similar to his character in the Long Halloween. Like his Long Halloween counterpart, Caped Crusader Harvey feels much more of like a "two faced politician', in how he'll seem reasonable one minute, but then some of his asides will be so wontonly cruel. I really think TLH(the comic version) was a base inspiration for this Harvey Dent
In episode 10 Dent sums up the relationship between Flas and Dent, and I'm sure the video analyzing episode 10 will dive into this and the culmination of the event the whole season has been building up to.
This has nothing to do with characterization, it’s purely asthetic, but I hate this two face design so much. I have hardcore tryptaphobia, and this design activates it on every level, and it’s also ANOTHER realistic Two-Face design, which I only ever thought worked in the Dark Knight.
So do you think the design is actually bad, it’s just triggering for your phobia, or both?
I very much dislike the redesign as well, it's just not as good as comics and BTAS had it.
I'm sorry about your phobia.
@@mr.j3rs3y I think that outside of my personal problems, it is still a bad design. I really hate that we keep going with the realistic look for Two-Face in media where a more comical design would fit better.
The realistic look worked for the Dark Knight because that was a very grounded and realistic take on the Batman world. It doesn’t work in something like Caped Crusader or Arkham, since both of those versions of Batman’s world feature a lot more fantastical elements, so having more comical designs for Two-Face would’ve worked much better, as well would’ve been more visually striking.
@@kendi5391 Glad to see someone who agrees! And thank you, but thankfully, it’s not a severe phobia, it just grosses me out really bad.
@@GPS_DS
That’s completely fair. It’s not my favorite design for Two Face either, but I think it did a good job for what it was.
The reasons I like it are because it feels more grounded, like “hey this could be someone I know, but I don’t think any less of them for any disfigurement or disabilities they may have gained due to an injury”. I also like how somber the right side of his face looks, much like how the “Other Guy” acts most of the time, his conscience and his guilt on full display. I don’t think it’s an amazing design or anything, but I like it for what it is!
I’m sorry about your phobia btw.
I really did like this verson of Harvey so much, Diedrich Bade did such a amazing job voicing him. I still cannot belive that he also voiced Batman in The Brave And The Bold because they almost sound alike but not too much.
Caped Crusader's Harvey is now my third favortie verson of Twoface of all time. Number two being The Long Halloween/Dark Victory verson and number 1 being BTAS verson. specking of The Long Halloween they referance Twoface's line from the comic;
Caped Crusader: "Sorry, but i cant resite a two for one speciel"
The Long Halloween: "A two for one speciel"
Last thing i want to say is how that this verson of Throne felt way more threatening over his BTAS verson. Overall i really did enjoy all of Batman Caped Crusader and i hope we will get a season 2 sometime in the future.
I think he does a great job in The Brave and the Bold's more "serious" episodes that contrast how the rest of the show is done (not that I think the more campy episodes are bad mind).
Chill of the Night being a standout episode about Batman confronting the man who murdered his parents while having the voices of Justice and Vengeance (voiced by Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill!) whispering in his ear as he pursues the mugger. Especially when he unmasks himself to the mugger and tells him he was the child of the couple he shot years ago. The mugger in a panic fleeing to tell the other big name Gotham villains that he is the reason Batman exists only for them to basically turn on him for it.
@@caldw615 yeah i saw a clip from that ep. Ive never watched The Brave And The Bold but i plan to. But im planning to watch all of BTAS and then Batman Beyond first but i havent gotten there yet because ive been pretty busy with other stuff and work.
@@nightenobsidian825 I would recommend checking it out. It's a massive love letter to all things Batman and comic books. It features a log of more obscure characters who haven't featured much in movies or previous shows and even the episodes that don't focus on Batman specifically are very creative.
BTAS and Batman Beyond are good stRting points though to see where a lot of Batman media has been influenced.
I just wanted to throw it out there how great the creation of Two-Face was in BTAS. At that time all I knew about Batman came from the 1966 reruns and the two movies. So I had no idea what was coming. To me Harvey Dent was just another character filling a role, like Mayor Hill or Detective Bullock. Not in every episode but a character they would always bring up when needed. Plus the attempted revenge killing by Poison Ivy really cemented him as a side character that would just always be there.
But I do appreciate the fact this show is clearly taking the ideas of these legacy characters but clearly blazing their own trail with them. It makes it that much more exciting to watch when you can never be sure what the outcome will be for even established characters.
To me it seems like Harvey Dent's personality broke in half leaving two distinct personalities with one side being vengeful and seeking out his own justice, and the other being his kindness, the Harvey Dent that wanted to help people, the broken part of a broken man as it were. Though I might be echoing what you said in your video.
The face of the guy who splashed acid in Harvey’s face reminds me of Boris Karloff from the Raven (1935)
I wonder if they will regret killing Harvey. Seemed like there was a lot of potential there, but I do have to remember this is a different approach than BTAS, a lot fewer episodes per season, so the news to reuse characters is reduced.
I suspect they'll have lots of other characters to fill up the air time
When the first photo where reveal I was a little skeptical of Two-Face’s new look . Mostly because he seem more real and lack the red burn colored. But when I got into it I loved and get it! It’s about a complex character getting turned into a more conflicted person because of tragedy . The whole acid scene felt like a way to making him really see the corruption of Gotham and take a vigilante approach bigger than Batman . While it was a shock to see him go so fast . I think it serve as a complete character arc and make Batman change for the better.
I think, in its own twisted way, Harvey's tragedy was the most freeing moment of his life
His unscarred side felt like a mask was lifted because he no longer has the societal expectations a DA running for Mayor has to live by so he can finally say and do what he has always wanted. He's already a 'monster' so what's the use in acting 'normal'?
The Other Guy however feels like...I dunno, on my binge watch perhaps because it went into the night I felt like he was the physical embodiment of Harvey's empathy finally forming because he was caused by the first time his nature left him with a long lasting concequence if that makes any sense
3:39 you could say he put a Dent in his campaign.
I'll get me coat.
Ouch...
I think that this version of Two-Face was very interesting, but I was dissapointed that he won't appear in the future. And I think that's my biggest gripe with the show. The villains are intersting, but it looks like they'll be one and done villains that won't appear in the future, except maybe Catwoman and Harley. There is no way Penguin will get out of jail, and her criminal empire is done, and I doubt we'll see Onomatopeia and Gentleman Ghost again. Maybe Clayface returns, but I don't know in what capicity they can use him in the future.
It's a very human approach acid attacks are terrifying but for a mob it makes sense completely I'm so glad they moved away from the coin it was cool but definitely a bit overplayed this was such a perfect usage of him
One other thing about the moment where Batman goes after Flass, Arnold straight up tried to say he was justified in killing Harvey just because he was a cop. In fact here’s the line
“Hey, hey, hey, hold on! That was a righteous shoot. You can't do this! You're just some lousy vigilante! I'm a goddamn cop!”
Goes to show how much of a slimy hypocrite he is.
Love the video, and the show has been a fascinating take so far. Devil's advocate though, the styles of writing I usually enjoyed from past versions of the villains, wasn't ugly = evil, it was people who are different being beaten down and treated like monsters until they inevitably break under the pressure. Their villainy comes out more as a tragedy of circumstance and environment, not because they were inherently bad all along. You beat down on someone enough, they will eventually lash out, and it's hard to call them evil for biting back after what was likely years of abuse.
I like Batman, the cape crusader it was different, but I’m happy that they’re trying something new
I love this series, the empathetic treatment offered to dent is so warming, I concur it’s a mad spiral of negative pressure of Gotham’s toxic social environment.
Personally it’s comforting seeing the empathy you offer in these videos, as having been observing too much of pop culture the toxic masculinity is disgustingn particular around the senseless binary it often comes to; however I feel your videos always portray a nuanced and inspiring narrative.
Also, I LOVE the psychosis two face portrays in this.
Oh my god at 14:07 it’s almost a direct recreation of the Billy d Williams art work for him as two face at least in my eyes it looks like it
I loved Caped Crusader
I hate how the "Barbara Gordon is black" crowd did a lot of bad marketing
Love thwir slow buildup of Harvey Dent. From a showwriting perspective love batman pushed him, and I liked his arc (especially the unexpected part with zitos gf). I still feel bad for him (and irl wouldnt support the rampage), and think he was gone too soon. Grear video, cant wait for b&f!
REALLY GOOD though I wish you had highlighted the micro aggression Bruce...or should I say Batman when he tried to get Harvey to testify. Also details that you might cover in the next video is how flas and bullock talk about cracking heads to find out who tossed acid on Harveys face is preceded by a scene with Batman doing that very thing.
I like this version because it would be how someone would feel after a life altering event happens. You aren't going to get revenge or be scary, you are going to lose your confidence and question why it happened to you which would lead to constantly blaming yourself
I find it interesting that Harvey’s scarred side is the one that doesn’t want to hurt anyone. It’s the side that thinks he deserves every terrible thing that’s happened to him because he himself did terrible things. It’s the scarred side that brings all the “ugly” things he did to light.
Brilliant summary of Two-Face. I wasn’t entirely on board for the show as a whole, but Two-Face was a notable achievement and a depiction I really dug. I still think they could’ve done a bit more with him before they cut him loose, but at least Harley will return later to do further development. This is easily an all time favourite rendition of the character for me, and I liked how they inversed his sides and changed the motif of the coin to actually keep its original purpose - as you say, illusion of choice, but also the illusion of two faces. There’s really only one face, one persona, and the whole concept of the false face is just that. I personally don’t think there was a split personality in this version. There’s just two sides of Harvey, but both are Harvey. The acid just burned away the persona to reveal the real Harvey underneath.
reimagining two face as a acid attack victim also strikes with modern audiences more as that attack is seen as more sinister and also more common now
I love these vids so much, very high quality, please do more of these Batman vids
I like the previous character designs this one triggers my shivers
There’s nothing wrong with changing a couple of characters.I feel like it’s actually a good idea,You can’t have the same thing for lunch every day sometimes you crave something new something unexpected that’s kind of the same with media nowadays.
Well- that's what btas exactly did though. They give all the characters, most were lost or underused, an actual purpose and decent characterization, hence why everyone loves Btas and has changed the bat mythos for the better. I can't say the same for Caped Crusaders….
@@happysocialmoth1197 I mean,there’s nothing wrong with having unsympathetic villains. I mean a lot of them actually kind of work.
Love the twist that his twisted side has more of a conscious Ivey more of a violent one 😅 then his good side
Great video! Two-Face is my favourite member of Batman's rogues gallery too, and Caped Crusader's take on him is one of the very best.
While I noticed that he was scarred on the right side of his face unlike in most portrayals, I didn't pick up on the fact that the scarred side was also the penitent side, even though it was right there on the screen. Time for a rewatch!
I think he was the best part of the series. I love his descent to madness!
I know some are mad they excluded it, but honestly I was so glad they didn't do his stupid coin gimmick, instead making it so he'd offer, but it would always land on heads. So really it was up to him, but hes still fighting himself so whether someone dies can still go either way.
Feel the same. They didn’t make Harvey rely on it like a crutch, it was treated as it should have been: the tool in his choices. Very refreshing. It’s not a weakness that can be exploited. Only other time I think I’ve never seen Two-Face so reliant on the coin was the William Shatner portrayal of Two-Face.
Don't like Batman shooting a gun, that's not what he normally does
Honestly, I always thought Harvey sacrificed himself for Barbara because he acted out of instinctive selflessness, showing after all that was said and done and despite his doubts, there was still some good in him. I mean, Bruce and Barbara wanted to do everything they could to help him. Sure, he was a bit of an asshole, but he wasn’t as bad as Thorne, Bullock, or Flass, and right before becoming Two-Face, he did the right thing. After he murdered the criminals who harmed him, he felt genuinely guilty for killing them, believing he didn’t deserve to be redeemed, yet in the end, he gave his life because he perhaps he knew unconsciously that he could.
Remember his iconic quote from The Dark Knight (2008): “You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain”
He's definitely one of the Top 3 HD/TFs I've ever seen! Not only did I end up rooting for him, but his death left me stunned!
Really like the portrayal for Two Face. But really upset how they killed him off.
Also wish gave the “Other Guy” name.
The newest Batman adaptations almost always make Harvey corrupt from the start. Which to be fair, is more realistic but is a downgrade for the character and his tragedy. Like when they made Mr. Freeze a crazy stalker of Nora in the comics. That was a terrible choice.
Why do I suspect that this series will end with Bruce / Batman making the ultimate sacrifice to save the City?
His estate will be sold / liquidated, and the wealth distributed among the people...
...Barbara will become the new D.A.
....Motoya will become the new Commissioner. ... and pardon Harley Quinn naturally.
...and the Penguin will becme the mayor after realizing that it was an unfair patriarchy that drove her to a world of crime in the first place..
😇
Interesting how Harvey’s fall in Caped Crusader had and opposite effect in Batman than the comic version.
When Harvey became Two Face in the comics (more specifically, the Long Halloween storyline) it result in Batman becoming more darker, cold and isolated from others. It was only when he adopt Dick Grayson that he start recover and open up to his new partner.
In Caped Crusader, Harvey’s transformation helped Batman to begin to open up and accept the allies in his life Alfred, Montoya and the Gordons.
I think the best part about this series is how it took the comic continuity and bastardized it (But in a good way) I find that the show itself is perhaps one of the best, and the best indication of this is Penguin. Of all the characters in this show, she was the most changed, and I love it. I had a horrible mother and I found myself hating Penguin almost as much. All in all, a good show. If I could make a recommendation, I think that a video looking into Flashpoint Paradox's Batman... for the funny of course
Never say never! Maybe when I’ve run out of DCAU stuff to talk about… 🤔
I really think Harvey Dent should be introduced in the next Matt Reeves The "Batman" eventually to become the villain in the 3rd. He's complex and interesting, and I think Reeves could bring him to the big screen again with a better perspective.
No matter what, that hadsome face of Harvey will always get scarred, along with his mind.
I did like how this Harvey wasn't a total paragon of justice like other portryals. He was honestly kind of a bully, but was still able to recognise when to do the right thing.
I'd be very interested to see your take on Arkham Shadow's version of Two Face and his origin in the Arkhamverse.
I haven't played it, and I don't plan on splurging on another VR headset just to play one game.
This move was VERY bold to kill two face a very iconic character but they done it right and that’s why this episode is so good two face is more paranoid than vengful
Really? It's more like a poor execution for a character that has so much more to explore yet could never happen…
@@happysocialmoth1197 they could bring back the character one day you never know now we just wait.
Another awesome video Serum👍
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it 🙇♂️
I didn’t really get the vibe that Harvey had DID.
To me it felt like Harvey had some form of bipolar disorder. Although I might just be projecting.
My experience with it has actually been quite similar. Rapidly changing levels of aggression, feeling like you’re a different version at points.
Violence followed by guilt.
Never to this extent for me ofc but it all seems super familiar
Bipolar-inspired "split personalities" in media are honestly mistaken for DID way too often. They are just not the same. It gets especially silly when writers themselves mistake them and retcon one into another(An example that I picked up on fairly quick but the relevant community somehow never did is a character in Fire Emblem Three Houses that was, probably unintentionally, retconned in the next release after).
Though I guess it is weirdly true to life because actual bipolar was often mistaken for DID in the past too.
@@lpfan4491 lol true. It’s just Harvey seems perfectly aware of what he’s doing. Even when he saves Barbara it feels like he genuinely cares. It’s just a split second later he doesn’t understand why he did it
@@lpfan4491I think the fact it's called a "split" personality is why so many get it confused.
@@caldw615 I mean, it can't be, right? The term hasn't been in common usage for a few years because the old meaning was shifted to DID and the "new meaning" for the bipolar-adjacent writing trope was coined by me I'm pretty sure.(Which is why I put it in quotes. It's not an "official" term)
@@lpfan4491 It's not an official term but it is still heavily associated with it. Hell, the most famous examples that stick in people's memories about the "split" personality concept are clearly leaning into that idea.
Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde is probably the most infuential example and it went on to inspire other famous characters like The Hulk and Two Face. Even in modern movies the film "Split" even has the word in the title too.
I quite like how in this one his deformed scarred side is meant to be seen with pity than horror, almost like Quasimodo in a way. Also despite being an inversion to the usual Dent he is pretty similar to Two-Face in the Golden Age comics, where his descent to villainhood stemmed from his self-consciousness about his disfigurement. I can also see they took cues from Dent in The Dark Knight... at least in this one he does some Two-Face stuff.
They really did subvert expectations by having Harvey be the quote/unquote "Bad Half", while "The Other Guy" is Harvey's better nature (sort of like an Anti-TwoFace, or a version of the character that you would expect to see in Owlman's universe.)
New Twoface looks way creepier imo. I can look at him without my skin crawling.
I think this version of two-face may be my favorite take on the character
You I thought his Two Face would look like the William Shanter version where he is green and has anyone seen the Batman 89 comics where he is Barbara’s love interest?
Also there were a few versions of Harvey Dent who bad long before two face like in Earth one, Beware the Batman and Telltale even if you do save him.
Telltale Harvey wasn't bad before he became Two-Face. He got injected with something that caused his other personality to surface. Harvey was still the good personality. The difference is that you can save him from physical disfigurement, but the Two-Face personality surfaces no matter what you do.
@@ArkhamAsylum1505yes because it seems like he is a no win situation
Honestly i really like how dent was handled from bad guy to good guy to bad guy again, i feel his decent was actually more believable considering the time period of the show. And Dedrich Bader did a great job going from a smug to a broken tone. I also like that they made the split personality subtle nice touch imo.