Discover How Wildly Different EV Incentives & Penalties Are Across States
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- Episode 443: Join Francie as she investigates how different states impose incentives and penalties on EV drivers. Are EV owners being taxed fairly compared to their ICE-driving counterparts? Discover the disparities and discuss potential solutions to ensure proportionate taxation for all drivers.
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#tax #ev #disproportionately
The elephant in the room is that road damage is related to the square of axle loads, so trucks and semis have way more effect on roads than any car. And that heavy personal vehicles do not get extra tax proportionally....
Pickup trucks and large SUVs here in FL don’t pay nearly enough.
It is actually as the 4.2 power of the axle weight on a semi-flexible pavement. That's asphalt. So a fully loaded semi can produce about 10,000 times the damage of a small car.
Never understood why we subsidize these trains on the road.
It's not the square, not even the cube, it's one step worse than that, it's proportional to the axle load to the 4th power. Twice the load, 16 times the road wear. I read that in some little book about the federal highway system from back in the 50s or 60s.
People have already mentioned that a flat fee is unfair to low mileage drivers. In addition a flat fee unfairly taxes multiple car owners. If I drive 10,000 annually and own 3 cars I pay 3x as much
These flat annual fees are not fair as it penalize people that don't drive a lot.
Do you really want to report your milage to the state.
@@Dularr Yes, that is exactly the solution.
@@Dularr Why would you have problems with that? They already know it roughly here as you have to select a mileage for the insurance.
As long as the system don't say where you go its fine tbh. That is the privacy concern many have. For the pricing to be fair it should be more expensive driving on the motorway than on a rural public road full of potholes.
In the rural areas people actually have higher car maintenance due to poor road conditions wearing down the suspension and undercarriage.
Maybe not in the US where even the Interstate seem to be in terrible condition compared to European motorways.
@@Gazer75 depends on the state and geology. It's really a paperwork question. Do you want to pay a flat fee. Or track the actual miles driven.
That’s why tolling via transponders is the fairest and most logical way to charge for road usage (incl. weight factor)… perhaps in a decade or two, all cars will have standardized transponders built into them at the factory
In Utah, we pay extra during registration. If you do the calculations, you would have to drive a car that gets 30 MPH about 30,000 miles to pay the same road-use tax that EV's pay at registration. The ONLY fair way to do it, would be to have vehicle classes, where there's a constant, that is multiplied by the mileage driven. Smaller cars would have a smaller multiplier, whereas, large pick-up trucks and SUV's would have a higher multiplier, proportionate to their weight. There would have to be strict requirements on odometer readings. If a vehicles odometer readings aren't reliable, a GPS receiver can be used, to track the total miles driven between registrations. A good GPS might even be able to recognize when you're driving out of state, and not count those miles!
(You're going to hate me for this) This should apply to ALL vehicles, taking road-use tax off of gasoline, diesel, propane, compressed natural gas, or ethanol. This way, the state doesn't lose anything, allowing EV's to be charged with solar panels, and allows people to experiment with Bio-fuels. (Cooking oils for diesels, "home-brew" alcohols for spark-plug engines) These vehicles should be taxed just like the electrics, to maintain a level playing field! This is also more fair for "Hot-Rods", restored antique vehicles, recreational vehicles, and other "special interest" vehicles, that don't get driven much, but still need to be registered, for those special occasions.
Flat fees are a terrible way to do this as grandmas who just drive to and from church on Sundays in her sedan pays the same as a sales rep doing 50k+ miles a year in a fully loaded pickup. If this is to pay for the roads: it should be proportional. Having it based on the estimated damage to the road per unit distance and the distance traveled for that vehicle, regardless of propulsion, seems like it would be fairly simple and vastly more fair for EVERYONE.
I don’t want the trip by trip reporting that that one state in Australia requires, but I think uploading a picture of your odometer each time you renew would work fine. It would be good for insurance too since coverage is based on an estimated number of miles and that’s often a guess.
States should be paying EV owners for reduction of healthcare benefits
Utah allows people to sign up and pay for miles driven, where they pay a penny per mile rather than the end of year flat fee. This seems to be the right way to do it.
@@mrallelectriccarlunacy The huge problem with that is it's very hard to track in which state those miles were driven or whether they were even driven on public roads. Then there's the privacy concerns and legal issues if you start mandating GPS.... Vehicle odometers aren't usually accurate enough or can be spoofed and tampered with for tax purposes imo and there will be challenges to doing so.
@@tazeat I feel like we have the same issues with gas. If someone fills up in FL and then drives all over GA on that tank then why did they pay FL taxes? Folks wanting to get precise in making sure EV drivers aren’t huge cheaters (wonder who told them we are) quickly get a lot more draconian than it has ever been for gas or diesel.
In the near future many people will be priced out of vehicle ownership. It’s getting to be a pure luxury to own any vehicle no matter the make/model, ice/EV. It won’t matter, fees and Insurance prices as well as repair costs are just getting out of hand.
Maybe we should move to Pennsylvania and live with the Amish and ride horse and buggies😂
For my 2023 Model 3’s CA registration renewal this year, I don’t see any $100 registration penalty broken out, so it makes me wonder if it’s actually in force yet. Also, flat fees are unfair to low-mileage drivers.
If EV's are charged for "road maintenance" but do not contribute directly to the cost of pollution mitigation then, ICE vehicles should be charged a "solution fee" based on their EPA rated mileage. A per gallon carbon tax collected to mitigate the effects of the pollution they create would be appropriate to level the playing field.
In states that have annual safety inspections adding a certification of the number of miles driven with a highway use fee based on that seems reasonable. That could be done across that board for all vehicles by weight class making it fair for ice vehicles with elimination of the gas tax.
It's also important to mention that the federal gas tax has not changed. Since some time in the '70s and it's not a percentage it's a flat amount. We just need to change how we tax the roads in general. Hold business more accountable as they benefit the most. Amazon is only a trillion dollar company because they can access the entire road network to deliver all their packages.
Replace all these taxes fees, etc with more toll roads. More transparent and equitable for everyone. The most well-maintained and least congested roads here in California are all toll roads.
They likely will do both...leave the penalty and add the tolls and put the excuse on something else.
taxes only going down for a small sliver of demographic.
how do the city and county roads get paid for? outside of California a huge proportion of miles are racked up on local streets and highways not suitable for toll booths. Just charge all vehicle types to mileage based fees to replace fuel and annual flat fee attempts so you only pay for what you use.
Typically toll roads fees are use to build new toll roads.
@@ShannonMollenhauermainly Gas tax . But taxes for roads remain at whatever county where you fill up on Gas, not necessarily where you live :/
We should also recall all the tax credit from EV buyers. These rebate are unfair to non EV buyers.
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In Texas, we pay a $400 fee on new Registrations of EVs and $200 each year after. This is to offset the loss of gas tax. There is a comment about using vehicle inspections. Texas is doing away with safety inspections in September. For 10,000 miles a Chevy Tahoe would pay about $125. The Tahoe outweighs my Model Y by 3000 lbs. On the other handle I get the benefit of quick acceleration without noise and pollution. Thank you for covering.
Wait, what? Curb weight for a 2024 Tahoe is ~5700 pounds. Curb weight for the Model Y is ~4200 pounds. That's a difference of about 1500 pounds, not 3000.
I'm in Texas also. The $200 a year is not fun but I saved over $3,500 last year just in fuel costs. I have solar panels and powerwalls with a free night's electric plan. Charge my Model 3 and my wife's Model Y for free.
@@AaronAverett What is the gross weight? That is what they are knocking EVs for.
So your best bet is the conversion of an ICE car to electric. Resulting in no gasoline taxes or EV penalties, huh?
Needs solar too though. Taxes on electric here in FL.
🤯
I used CO tax credits to get 12,500 off my car. Finally getting something for all my taxes.
I paid extra $155 for model Y registration in Michigan
Thank you for this analysis, which makes me smile. It’s the usual suspects - southern states plus Utah. I’m not surprised, as Florida just passed a law making it illegal to make certain meat alternatives or even sell them in stores. They come right out and say that it’s not about safety - it’s about protecting the cattlemen - except, they’re not protecting small business owners - they’re protecting large corporations that run factory farms that severely pollute the environment. I’m not sure what the solution is, but it seems like we live in separate countries when focusing on rules imposed at the state level. Again, thanks for this analysis.
Yeah this part of EV ownership and local taxing needs to reworked ASAP. I'm okay paying a session fee to the company providing and supporting a charger, but paying a sales tax for the session in addition to the flat tax when I register the car is unnecessary. Especially at a time when alot of these chargers are getting tax subsidies themselves and increasing charge rates so the average in Georgia is .47 to .67 cents per KWH.
Great topic, thanks Francie and OOS. I didn't think about reg fees but I see that I should have. I bought and registered my MYLR in 2022 in CA even though I live in CO as my primary residence. Then I re-reged it in CO and got to transfer most of my CA fee against the CO fee. But I missed the incentive in CO and the Fed incentive due to purchase timing. I'm considering trading in once the Model Y refresh shows up and has HW4 or better. I'll be able to take the incentives and pay the lower reg fees in CO at that time as long as they are still available. But the insurance cost is still high. That cost is the largest ongoing cost of ownership next to tires. Off peak electricity at home is very low at 14 cents per kW but the road trips from CO to CA and back are hit with about 35 to 45 cents but I only do those road trips about once every 2 - 3 years. Tourism road trips are taken more often and also cost in that range.
I live in New York state and currently there is no extra charge on your registration for an electric vehicle but I do believe we should pay an extra amount to offset the cost of maintaining the highway I'm sure New York will catch up eventually
EVs don't leak liquid on the streets. Ice vehicle leak oil and other fluid that damage the roads. Does rubber from tires really damage roads?
There is both a federal gas tax and a state tax, in Mississippi 18.5 cent for federal and 17.5 cents for the state. Neither are tied to inflation. The annual tag fee for my ID4 was originally $150 but it was tied to inflation. A few months ago was $162.90 on top of the normal tag fee. There’s a $75 fee on top of the regular fee for hybrids.
In Mississippi, motor vehicles are subject to property tax as Class 5 property. Article 112 of the State Constitution requires all property to be taxed, "uniformly and equally throughout the State". Further, both Mississippi and Federal gasoline taxes are paid by the distributor, not by ICE drivers at the pump (MS Code 27-55-3 and 26 US Code Section 4081). MDoT only receives about 1/4 of its budget from State fuel tax, with 1/4 from the General Fund, and 1/2 from the Federal Government. EV, HEV, PHEV additional taxes are indexed to inflation though in differing amounts. CNG vehicles have a fixed rate higher tax. All of these are "privilege taxes" levied on the owner, not a business. "Uniform and equal" or "unconstitutional"?
My WA tabs were well over $1000 for when I bought my EV. ('22 BMW i4 eDrive40)
Excise taxes, EV fees, weight fees, extra weight fees, administration fees, fee processing fees, etc.
First and second renewals have both been over $1000, but next year it should drop below, as the depreciation does reduce the taxes part.
Just thought about something about fees. Any extra fees that are not related to a purchase of services should be taxed by the government. The states should get a part of the tax that came from the fee tax.
WV is one of those states. My registration is now $220 a year and that because I’m no longer paying taxes at the pump. 😢
I paid $1,900 in taxes last year alone on my 2022 Model Y. My registration cost here in Virginia is fairly low. I have a 2013 Kia Optima and pay significantly less in taxes on that. But to put it in perspective, I have a Lexus LS400 that is definitely considered a luxury vehicle and paid a little over $400 a year in vehicle property taxes. So they definitely are padding that bill for EV owners.
And while I totally understand the purpose of the gas tax, one should google if the gas tax is spent completely on roads. I've read articles that show the tax money being funneled into a state's general fund and a portion of it is being applied to road construction. The gas tax alone is not the only money a state receives for infrastructure. They also receive federal funds. Maybe this is why some states only dedicate a portion of their actual gas tax to infrastructure.
Between my local utility, the federal EV tax credit, & what amounts to a local “cash for clunkers” EV program. I got $11,000 off a used EV!! I even got like a thousand bucks back on my level 2 charger install.
That is what I call, "unfair taxation".
Just happened to pay my "birthday tax" here in GA today. For 2 Tesla's, it was over $500 ($212.61 for Alt Fuel Fee + normal registration/mailing fees).
I'm with you here in GA. Only one EV in the household but the taxes are the same.
If you own two Teslas, you aren't missing $500 especially since you don't pay gasoline taxes and presumably charge at home primarily and pay GA's low residential utility rate, not to mention the $15,000 tax credit you received when purchasing, assuming you bought new. Why would anyone shed tears for you?
Charge a fixed milage fee, ie 1 cents per mile driven based on a yearly milage total from prior year.so 12k would equate to $120 . This seems like the best solution.
Georgia (where I live) has the highest EV registration fee in the U.S. At $214, it's roughly equivalent to paying the gasoline tax (state and Federal) based on average miles driven and average fuel economy in the U.S. I've paid the fee and done the math. Other states with EV registration fees charge less than the gasoline tax, and some states also have state tax credits.
Overall, EV drivers get a break on taxes as well as tax credits. Someone must pay for public roads, and we've traditionally financed them with gasoline taxes. If taxing EVs this way is a "penalty", then ICEV drivers have been "penalized" throughout my life. Georgia has no state tax credit, and its EV registration fee seems quite fair to me despite being the highest in the country. A tax based on actual miles driven or fuel consumed might be fairer, but since EV drivers mostly charge at home, this tax structure is not practical at this point.
My residential electricity rate is among the lowest in the country, and I save far more on fuel by charging at home than I lose by paying the registration fee, particularly since I don't really lose anything by paying the fee.
Your article's "more taxes and fees for EV drivers" seems to ignore the Federal gasoline tax which is 60% higher than the state tax in Georgia. It's the great majority of road use taxes that Georgia residents pay. No, it's not a state tax, but it is apportioned to and spent by states primarily for U.S. highway and interstate maintenance. Ignoring it in the comparison is disingenuous.
When I bought my 2020 Bolt EV last year, I received a $4000 Federal tax credit. That's nearly 20 years of the registration fee, but your article doesn't account for it in the comparison either. I'm making out like a bandit, but your selective accounting paints me as the victim.
This is what I came to say. Once you add the federal gas tax. The average driver is still paying a higher penalty in an ICE vehicle than an EV. I believe this holds true for each state.
I am in Georgia as well, and agree with most of your points. The issue many of us have is with the public charging sales tax. This will once again penalize certain segments of the population that need to regularly public charge. Not everyone has the home to charge at or can rely on property management (depending on living situation) to provide reliable or enough charging. Additionally, anyone using their EV for long daily commutes or work (uber, real estate, etc) will need to public charge and will be paying effectively two sales taxes while driving a vehicle not much heavier than the standard pickup truck (which are plentiful down here).
@@diydrivenGA In my experience, public charging at a DCFC is roughly equivalent (cost per mile) to pumping gas. It'll never be exactly the same. If I were an Uber driver, I wouldn't use an EV, and I've never seen an electric Uber. It's not about the cost of public charging. It's about the time spent charging. If you spend an hour a day charging, you aren't collecting fares for that hour. This loss dwarfs any extra cost of fueling your vehicle.
It's also true that Federal oil and gas exploration subsidies cost at least five times more than the EV tax credit, though since fossil fuels still generate most electricity, EV drivers also benefit from these subsidies. The myriad of subsidies makes an effective comparison practically impossible, but it's clear enough to me that as an individual, comparing my own bills as an EV driver to my bills as an ICEV driver, I'm far ahead of the game at this point.
I'd rather not see EV proponents whining about how oppressed we are. That only pisses the ICEV drivers off. They're both poorer and far more numerous than EV drivers, but we're all equal at the ballot box, and I suppose we should be. The politicization of EVs is counterproductive, and EV proponents are largely responsible for it. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Francie, I don’t have a problem paying some extra fee. However, the fee doesn’t take into account miles driven. The State gets the flat fee ( tax ) upfront regardless of energy consumption. My State ,Wisconsin ,charges $175 EV surcharge on top of Base registration $85.00. Wisconsin recently Passed an EV infrastructure bill that imposes $0.03 per kWh Tax on Retail Public Charging. (home charging is exempt) The tax is meant to bring parity with the Gas Tax $0.33 per gallon. 10 kWh would be $0.30 The bill also allows private Retail sales of Electricity for the purpose of EV charging by the kWh. Previously only Utilities could sell electricity by the kWh. Tesla Superchargers were previously permitted minute rate based now they are all $0.36 per kWh.
WA state is pro EV then adds a 225 flat fee.. worst part of it.
In Texas, we have the gas tax, and the counties have their own road/bridge tax. Low taxes . . . bull!!!
No income tax.
They should be taxing tires federally instead and drop all these fixed and usage taxes. Gas taxes should continue to cover healthcare and not road maintenance.
In Texas, the registration premium is $200 per year. Also in Texas, the first registration is for 2 years so doubled at $400 for two years.
PDRNJ just added a $250/year EV surcharge, to increase by $100/year until it reaches about $290. Get a 4 year registration and it adds over $1000 to the cost. They are also phasing out the sales tax exemption for EV's. Likely the EV rebates will go away soon, too. Net result is a regressive cost structure that will make even a small EV more expensive to purchase and operate than an ICE vehicle, especially fot those who do not drive very much.
Washington State also has a carbon charge of 43 cents a gallon. Which can go up. It was 16 last year.
Pennsylvania, 250 dollars additional for EVs at registration and increases to the published rate of inflation. This is payed weather you drive the thing a little or much. Central Pennsylvania has some of the worst air pollution in the country.
sadly the data is already out of data. here in NJ they added a $250 annual fee for EVs which means EV drivers will pay over 2x more taxes than ICE drivers. Ridiculous!
From 3:50 to 5:50 felt like I was in a time loop. Same words. Different order.
WA is a mixed bag. Our highways are funded mostly via gas taxes, so I get the hit on registration as otherwise I’m not paying any of my share of road maintenance costs. This was offset by a few things:
1) sales tax exemption for EV’s (we’re an sales tax heavy state with no income tax, so this is significant)
2) a “home charging” rebate on my electric bill from the Public Utility District, that roughly offset the first two years of the registration fee. I could have also gotten $500 to offset installing an L2 smart charger, but I’ve elected to try getting by just charging off 115v. This is a county/utility level thing, not state wide.
The observations are helpful. What we didn't hear is how much fuel tax is being collected by ICE drivers in comparison. If a state charges more to offset the lost fuel taxes, it should be in a way that is proportional to use, just like fuel taxes. Larger, heavier vehicles pay more taxes because they use more fuel and are more damaging to the streets. That's reasonable. Without a carefully researched solution (something governments/legislatures are not known for) we will face these knee-jerk fees and taxes someone arbitrarily made up to make driving EVs on public roads "fair".
The "credits" for WA are way exaggerated. The tax exempt only applies if purchase is
Also gas taxes are and have been $0.494/g for years... but they passed the "Climate Commitment Act" which charges ~$0.50/g in carbon taxes to the distributors and is an additional hidden tax. Vote yes on I-2117.
@2:20 texas @11:00 alabama, arkansas, ohio, west virginia @12:00 michigan, georgia, washington, texas @14:00 all states @18:45 usa maps
I'd be okay with a per mile tax, but I don't know a good option to do that without an honor system (lol) or an annual drive-in yearly inspection. The only small issue with per mile is if you take a lot of road trips, then those states aren't getting their share. A small user base and still the fairest way IMO.
The issue with a per KWH fee is if you precondition a lot then you're paying extra road tax for it. And now you have to have every house install a separate meter for an evse. But how many people would just sidestep that by plugging in to a different outlet or have a "welder" outlet installed and just use that to charge a majority of the time.
Although I think we could incentivize separate metering by offering time of use billing where it's far cheaper to charge at night or when demand is low.
I like odometer reading (upload a picture not do an inspection) when renewing registration. We have to certify a number of things are true as it is. They can trust that we sent a picture of our vehicle.
@@mrallelectriccarlunacy the problem with pictures is they can be faked or edited. You can easily edit meta data to change when the picture was taken. What about the small population that doesn't have camera phones, internet, or any sort of data. I'm not saying it has to be a full-blown inspection, literally just a 1 minute drive through where a person records your odometer and you go on your way.
I suppose if you cheat taxes by manipulating photos you could be back charged and fined when you go to sell your car and have to record the odometer. If you're going to cheat you'd have to keep that car forever. Even if you sold it privately the next person will have to record the odometer on registering and if there's a 50,000 mile gap, that's going to raise some red flags.
@@andrewt9204 that’s what I’m thinking, they just accept the photos and if there’s a discrepancy then there’s a paper trail. Folks can upload pictures of their id to prove who they are for a job, for a cert test, and pictures for insurance claims. I figure odometer is fine.
The average gas purchaser in Michigan pays about $400/year in gas tax. I'll take the extra up to $240 registration fee. I'm still coming out ahead.
Plus in Ohio we have the phev fee and when I use gas I still pay gas tax. My total for 2 cars ev and phev 496.00. And I had to renew my license picture for 29.00
Why is there no consideration given to the taxes we pay on electricity? Where I live, in Utah, taxes on electricity are (as a percentage of cost) equivalent to the taxes charged on gasoline. This is NOT taken into account, when it comes to wear and tear on roads.
I think the challenge in your scenario is how to allocate some of the electricity taxes to replace motor fuel taxes for road maintenance. It seems the problem is we have a century of charging taxes on a commodity used somewhat proportionally for road upkeep and now the commodity is changing to something that's easier to acquire through other means besides a gas station pump.
I think the whole point of the gas tax Is that it is disproportional with road use and encourages more efficient vehicles, therefore I would argue against VMT and for a higher gas tax.
EVs are heavier than the typical passenger car. In PA where I live trucks (like my F150) pay an increasing registration fee based on their weight class (starting around $100 vs under $50 for a passenger car). I think it's fair to consider the vehicle weight as a factor in registration fees.
PA is also working on a higher registration fee for EVs to offset the loss of gas tax revenue. I think the goal is to somehow match the "average" driver's gas tax + registration cost but the numbers I've seen make me wonder - on the order of $250-270 annually.
PAs purchase tax credit has a low annual income cap to qualify. With new EV prices I wonder how many buyers actually qualify.
EVs are typically only 5-10% heavier than ICEVs of similar class/size … pickup trucks weigh much more than most BEVs do, and most Americans who own pickup trucks just use them for commuting & recreation
@@panameradan6860My F150 (2.7L V6 Ecoboost XL) has a curb weight of 5035 pounds. My Mach-E weighs about 100 pounds less.
@@panameradan6860 I'm having trouble locating an ICE crossover SUV over 4000 pounds. What ICE vehicles do you consider to be a similar class/size to a Mach-E or Model Y?
That Washingron "Transportation Electrification" fee has done absolutely zero for the trash charging infrastructure in this state. This dispite the governor attempting to set a date when new fossil fuel cars will no longer be able to be sold. In addition, there is no state apportionment on Canadian and US semi trucks that tear the roads up faster than anything.
Fayetteville, NC!!!!! It varies by the county. I have a Electrified G80 and my cheeks were clapped to a Tune/ cost of $1,114 to register my EV. That didn’t include the safety inspection fee that must be paid before you can register your vehicle! NC lives off of property tax. Basically they decided how much your property is worth and start clapping cheeks!!!!!!
Thanks, nice work.
I'd like to point out ICE engines emit carcinogens. A little more, prickly, than just referring to pollution.
In MN it was the case for a time that I paid less in gas taxes driving my pickup to and from work (which was close then) than the flat fee cost me annually when I switched to my Leaf...
Yep it definitely almost never pans out to have an "extra" highly efficient EV either. With added registration/insurance alone the gas savings aren't even worth it. I liked the idea of a cheap short range EV to do all my short trips with and had a 5k 500e briefly (
@@tazeat Yea, I could get away with the lower range EV when my commute was shorter, but the longer range EV was a game changer. Well, I just did the math and for how much I drove through all of last year (which is around the national average) and my cars actual all in energy usage (metered at the EVSE) and utility rate it was approximately 48USD per month for electricity. My cousin said his 40MPG hybrid with similar driving was like 120ish USD per month. So the 75 per year (MN USA, ~6.25USD per month) doesn't effect the mythical average drivers overall cost a ton, but the lower mileage drivers where the low range EVs made the most sense were MUCH more effected. It was still overall cheaper to drive my Leaf vs my full size pickup; but the gas tax portion of my fuel costs was less than the flat fee was. Which is ridiculous ;as there is no way that pickup did less road wear than that Leaf. That said: I much prefer driving my current EV over a comparable gas car. More fun, and that power/torque getting me out of danger is literally a life saver! Not to mention never having to worry about the amount of gas in my car, but instead always setting out with plenty of range every day. You have to go with what works for you, but I suggest you don't sleep on something you might really enjoy.
@@thetinker Wife ended up trading her car for an MYLR, and that works out since we both drive it a lot and put the vast majority of our miles on it. But with the fee structure keeping an extra car or even a project car with extra flat taxes just gets insanely prohibitive which is very sad imo. Cheap beaters should be a thing, especially when they're small and very efficient and even moreso when they're older and not driven a lot.
@@tazeat Good point, I've limited myself to one car because of the registration fees, insurance (which adds up big time), and parking space.
My complaint about collecting the fees annually is that it can be a fairly large number in contrast to the fuel tax that is collected a little at a time over the whole year.
Several states have considered taxing by the miles people drive and I think two are tracking on a voluntary basis. That runs into potential privacy issues and also is somewhat regressive in that some people can only afford houses way far out from work, so they end up with a lot of miles.
My insurance company already tracks my phone. I know because I looked on their website and half of the rides that qualify me for the “good” drive discount were actually bike rides. A previous insurance company used a dongle plugged into my OBD II port when I still had cars with those. My EV’s are constantly connected also.
I personally don’t love sharing an odometer photo either because I drive more miles out of state than in state and I don’t want to pay when I’m not there. I’m sure some states are going to tax fast charging.
I’m not sure there is an easy answer, but when EV’s are 2% of the total fleet, I’m not sure it’s time to put the screws to us yet either
I think states should find an alternative revenue source for road maintenance, and instead adjust the fuel tax to encourage EVs and fuel efficient vehicles.
Then the fuel tax becomes decoupled and instead a policy tool.
As of July 1 Maryland has $125 per year tax on evs and $100 for plug in hybrid. It is paid in advance when you register your car. Since you get a 2 year registration it cost you $250 extra at registration renewal.
It does suck in states like where I live, Alabama, we have to pay these flat expensive fees for EVs when the gas tax works out to approximately half that. Even my previous ICE with was a 17 MPG V8 that flew thru gas, it was nowhere near as much in gas tax over the year as the EV fee. We need a better way to collect the taxes, bc we do need them for the roads, but to be more fair across the different vehicle types. Based on mileage and weight would likely be the best path. I feel like i want to move to Colorado just to enjoy the incentives you all get up that way. Hell, we even get charged a fee here if you get solar on your home, that almost negates the savings to your electric bill...
WUFT covers the failed bill in FL well and the included map is good. Includes TX fees.
Utah pisses me off so much! Here we are paying extra for driving EVs, meanwhile everyone with their pavement princess trucks driving around willy nilly while we have some of the worst air quality in the country.
Both the gas tax and any EV flat rate tax are both pretty terrible ideas in terms of sharing in the cost of maintaining our roads.
Instead of a "fuel" based tax, there should be an annual mileage charge. The rate one is charged could be tiered based on weight and/or commercial vs personal uses.
In states with annual vehicle inspections, odometer info is already gathered so producing a tax bill from that data would be relatively simple. If no current annual inspection is required, either add them or add a mileage certification section on your tax form that a licensed mechanic or dealer can sign off on.
This would eliminate the disparity between owners who have more or less efficient vehicles and that which arises between ICE, hybrid, PHEV, and BEV owners.
Well said, Francie
We live in WA and the ev taxes are stopping us from looking at a second ev.
How much tax is that? Does your fuel cost savings not more than make up for it?
That is a good thing. This will stop you from stealing common wealth from common folks, whom does not own EV.
@@justlistenfornow
Buying an EV is stealing from common people... How are you coming to that conclusion?
Instead of a gasoline tax it should be mileage based. That way it is fair for everyone, regardless on what powers your vehicle or how much you drive. And to make it even more fair the rate could be based on the size, weight, and value of the vehicle. So a billionaire isn't paying the same rate as a poor person. The mileage could be estimated every month/year and corrected at the time of inspection.
To take it a step further, they could make it GPS based. That way the rate could also vary depending on when and where you drive.
I think my state of WI has increased since that article was published back in 2023. My wife and daughters ICE vehicles were both $85 for yearly registration. My EV was $260 this year. Definitely feel this is excessive considering all the sales tax we are charged at superchargers.
The fee for EVs in WI went to $175 in 2024 registration. The state tax for a gallon of gas has not changed since 2006. The state tax on a gallon of gas was annually adjusted for almost 2 decades prior to the law changing it to a fixed rate that has been locked in since 2006.
@@kennypeoples775 I’m not in the USA and have a question for you. If the RATE of taxation hasn’t changed since 2006 has the pre-tax price of gasoline increased? If so then the amount of tax collected has also increased so there is no need to increase the RATE. The tax you pay on a gallon has in fact increased by the back door because the cost of the raw product has increased? It’s the same here in Europe, the tax rate hasn’t changed for a few years yet the amount of tax recovered via the huge rise in the pre-tax price of gas has doubled or more the tax take without needing to increase the rate on each gallon. Oh and we have taxes on the taxes here too! There’s Fuel Duty then on top of that there is 20% -25% VAT depending on which European country you live in!
@@timoliver8940 It sounds like wherever you are from Europe taxes gasoline by a percentage of the price base price. in the USA we have a flat tax on a gallon of gas, so the only way to get more money for tax is to consume more fuel. We have a federal gas tax and a state gas tax. The state gas tax specifically in Wisconsin has not changed from it's 2006 level.
As you can imagine with more fuel efficient vehicles over the years the way the tax is structured certain state and the federal government are essentially reducing the collected taxes of gasoline. This goes back to the annual EV registration fees at least for the state tax revenue which the video discusses.
The big loser with the registration fee structure is the federal government because the registration fees go to the state government leaving the federal side with nothing. Most state government are okay with increasing the EV/Hybrid fee amounts because most people still drive ICE vehicles and the perception is if you can afford an EV/Hybrid you can afford the fees associated with them.
I am okay with the the EV annual fee, I would prefer it be based on mileage driven versus a flat fee. I think hybrid drivers at least in my state are screwed because they pay an annual fee but still consume gasoline. I do think though the flat gasoline tax should be increased on a more regular basis as well.
@@kennypeoples775 Would laws have to be modified to use sales tax from EV charging to go into transportation funds vs gas tax obviously be used for that currently
@@mattsimon931 Laws are not my forte. I know putting a tax on charging would be helpful but not a panacea in this situation since many people with EVs charge at home and they pay for electricity on their monthly utility bill. If you were to add a tax to that for charging an EV or plug-in hybrid every home charging outlet would need it's own meter which is a high expense and added complexity.
If you are charging exclusively at public charging stations you are paying a premium for the speed at which your battery is charging. If you have the ability to get a level 2 charger installed at your place of residence that will save you money in the long run. If you are unable to do that but you can plug in a level 1 (120V) charger while you are sleeping that will help lower your supercharging cost.
That was supposed to be a "pollution" fee, not a "solution" fee.
In ohio. My wife has a Rav4 hybrid. Not even a plug in hybrid. She pays gas tax and $150 registration fee. There are gas only vehicles that get better MPG than the Rav4 hybrid. I dont mind paying a tax for my Model Y but I have to drive something like 20k+ miles a year compared to the average MPG car to be equal in gas tax. I drive around 10k miles a year or less.
Arizona has the "alternative fuel credit" that makes the annual VLT tax zero so only registration remains ($15 +-}. This saved me $725 the first year and a declining amount every year thereafter. Over the life of the car this will be as powerful as other state up front credits.
NJ has just added a large $250 EV Reg fee and it goes up to $290 I think over the next few years, We also had no sales tax on EVs but that is ending in Oct. They are adding this costs at the same time they are giving a 2K tax credit and some other credits so that sort of hides the new fees but we will see how long the credits last?
My electric bill says that is taxed too.
Here in seattle there is a separate fee for roads construction on gas and electric vehicles.
I thought that was for the light rail and other mass transit not roads
Here in Canada, EVs are still treated exactly the same as regular vehicles. No extra fees or taxes.
The only fair thing to do is eliminate fuel tax and EV differential registration fees and replace them with a "road usage tax" based on Odometer readings of actual miles traveled, collected at time of annual license renewal.
One of a few reasons I purchased my Model 3 in 2018.... I knew that a law would go into effect that would charge a RIF (road improvement fund) fee for model year 2020 and forward for zero emmission vehicles (ZEVs) in California. One of the few opportunities I will have to be a "freeloader." However, CA may pass a small tax on electricity delivered to my house in the future since I am on an EV charging plan.
Indiana went up to $221 per year in 2024 for EVs.
Louisiana may be really far behind, but at least we aren't all that bad
My registration for my 2021 Tesla Model Y is $500 in NC it's pretty ridiculous
Tolling with transponders is the fairest way to pay for road maintenance as a function of usage and weight
Haven't renewed the registration on my Leaf in two years because we no longer drive it enough miles per year to cover the Washington State EV fees. The extra $225 a year would render it no longer financially worth owning an aging EV that now only gets about 45 miles per charge.
Road tax and congestion fees should be charged per mile driven, not arbitrary flat fees.
Yeah, I had a bit of sticker shock when I went to renew registration on my EV in my state. Yikes.
I am not against these fees. I just do not like the flat nature of them. If I do not drive often, then I am effectively penalized, but if I drive a lot, I am not paying my share. My other question is what about EV conversions? What if I have a classic vehicle or a farm vehicle that I convert to electric, but it only is driven a few thousand miles a year? Again, $200, as it is in Ohio, is a penalty as you would have to drive 10,390 or so to pay $200 in taxes in a gas car assuming 20 MPG.
what a shocker that california would play a bait and switch giving you an incentive and penalty. wonder how much those programs cost to administer
The only way to enforce a "fair road tax" on EVs would be to have an odometer tax during a mandatory annual registration inspection. A tire tax would be "fair" but too easily circumvented by either buying non-EV tires and would also incite people to drive their tires to shreds, which is another thing mandatory annual inspections could screen.
Though the annual inspection itself would be an extra flat tax where one isn't already mandatory.
As far as "air pollution" goes, practically all of the non-CO2 emissions from modern ICEVs are tire and brake dust. Brake dust is mostly iron/rust. The more problematic emissions is tire dust micro-plastic and you get a fair amount more of that from EVs.
Update on the NJ sales tax exemption from NJ Division of Taxation:
P.L. 2024, c.19 repeals the Sales and Use Tax exemption on sales of zero emission vehicles (ZEVs). Beginning October 1, 2024, sales of ZEVs will be subject to half the Sales Tax rate. The exemption will be phased out over nine months, after which they will be taxed at the full rate. Information about the phase-out is available on the Division’s website.
EV drivers complaint, "why are you making me pay fair tax?"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I knew this would happen when I got my EVs, the folks who are against this won't go down without a fight. It will get worse as more people choose EVs. From what I'm seeing folks who installed solar panels have it even worse. Even CA turned on them and cut the amount they are paid for power to almost nothing and far less than what they expected to pay back the investment. Insurance companies are raising homeowners insurance rates on home with solar or just canceling their policy.
In Utah they have an option to pay per mile, but not go over the "flat fee". That's what I do.
I have to submit a photo of my Odometer every month or 2. I think that's more fair to pay per mile.
Oregon has been studying a mileage-based registration fee. No one likes to pay money, but if you knew the weight of the vehicle and the miles traveled per year from an odometer reading then it’s at least determined “fairly.” However that won’t catch the fact that out of state drivers in Oregon won’t pay. And if you’re leaving Oregon a lot then you’re funding Oregon’s roads but actually damaging say Washington or California’s roads. So you can see why we may eventually also see fast charging taxed to catch out of state users just traveling through. DCFC taxes per kWh are the closest analogy to our gas tax per gallon. But if you exclusively taxed only fast charging then you’d miss all of the miles that get replaced by AC charging, especially at homes.
I point all this out to say that really what’s needed from a theoretical point of view is that you’d need GPS, license plate reader or toll transponder tracking of every single vehicle, or at least the ones heavy enough to warrant taxation, and then the taxes or tolls go to the states, counties and cities that you drive through.
Fixed tax per year is not fair to people that don't drive much. I would like to see this change to tax based on each car's annual milage. I would also like for the tax to be based on each car's weight, so that heavier cars pay more.
I agree with the unfair tax. Non EV buyer should get the $,7500 tax credit as well.
In fact, every new car purchase should include $7,500 tax credit, to combat inflation, wage stagnation.
I suggest everyone pays an annual fee when paying vehicle tax. It should be based on vehicle weight and the miles driven. Miles would
Texas is $200 extra in EV registration
Francie, how accurate is that penalty/credit map? Texas does not show either, yet they seem to have the highest registration fees of any state. Curious about Florida as well.
Fayetteville, NC!!!!! It varies by the county. I have a Electrified G80 and my cheeks were clapped to a Tune/ cost of $1,114 to register my EV. That didn’t include the safety inspection fee that must be done before you can register your vehicle!
The solution is turning more state representation blue. The maps pretty much follow party policy.
Agree 100%. It's abundantly clear which party is pro-EV and which isn't.
How about placing the infrastructure taxes on the tires and not based on the propulsion system or fuel type. Heavier vehicles contribute more towards the wear and tear of our public roads and infrastructure. Until we have hovering or flying vehicles, our current roads are being driven on and worn out by vehicles with tires on them, no matter what type of drive line or propulsion system. The more weight of the vehicle, the larger the tires, the more axles and number of tires, thus more wear and tear on our public roads.
According to the Federal Highway Administration, the average fuel tax a customer pays range between $140 and $400 per year (depending on the state). If the average car owner with a car having 4 wheels drives 12k miles a year on average and can get at least 36k miles from their tires on average, then charge a tire tax of $105 to $300 per tire (depending on the state) and $0 (Zero) infrastructure taxes at the fuel pumps, charging stations, or part of extra DMV registration fess. Different tiers of tire taxes can be established, such as the tire's wear rating, to the tire's use from motorized bicycles up to the large commercial trucks that are on public roads, and include exemptions for tires on specialty vehicles primarily used solely on private properties, tribal lands, and for government use.
We own two EVs and primarily drive in MA and FL, paying zero road tax. We should pay something. FL has no incentive for buying an an EV so my next EV for business probably will be purchased in MA where there is a financial incentive.
IMHO, all states should offer an incentive to reduce carbon emissions, provide cleaner air, and reduce noise pollution.
Very informative!
This was a good video. Ty. I do want viewers to remember that owning and registering an EV does save money over time, no matter how you try to argue that dont. If you go with your purposed 10 to 12k miles driven annually that translates to 2 oil changes...at the minimum. So every year, for example, in my region the gas vehicle registration is $26.00. However, when I owned a gas car( 2015 Audi A6 3.0T) my oil change with an indy was $145. Even a simple modern honda oil change is no longer 29.99...sorry they just aren't.
This means I was paying 145x2 =290. Just for oil and the filter and labor included from an indy, not a dealership. Add $26 and the core operation is $316. If I only change my oil 1x that results in $171. My Tesla registration annual will cost 250 next year. That is 79 dollars more...thats nothing.
If you look at the recommendation for service on any ICE you will see that in the first few years you are paying for visual checks....you are wasting money just for peace of mind...due to the nature of ice and its complexities. I however, dont have those with an EV.
When you evaluate the whole picture, not just the registration aspect, you see that in the first year to two you are already saving money and time. Your time is valuable...it really is. Waiting or stopping for 30mins to 1 hr just for fluid replacement adds up over time. How much is YOUR time work? Hmm?
Again, the whole picture reveals being upset or concerned about registration fees, when viewed in the aggregate, is meaningless and you are still winning over time....thats the point. You win in so many other ways as well. Your air has less vocs and toxic byproducts...which do slowly impact all our lungs over time. Can this translate to better lung health which in turn can reduce health costs for all, over time,...yes..yes its does.
Add Wyoming atb $200.00/year
Does anyone see a pattern yet on which insurance companies are becoming more affordable for non Tesla EV coverage ? (My plan is to get the 2022 EUV BOLT or 2023 Kia NERO EV)
in 2025:
Gas tax rates haven't kept up because construction companies are some of the biggest contributions to local and state political campaigns. Politicians are defrauding the public by not demanding fair pricing, properly auditing cost overruns, and holding companies accountable for mistakes and inferior quality. As a historian I am aware of abandoned WWII landing strips that were built in weeks and still look better than roads built just 5 years ago. California, one of the highest taxed states in the Union, has some of the worst roads.
I am happy to pay a road tax, as long as ICE vehicles pay a carbon tax.