@@felipecouto1102 idk how people fail with this but ladynoir is the ship name for lb and cn. ladynoire is mari’s superhero name with the cat miraculous 😭 (noir is for men and noire is for girls)
@@The_Palette01 yeah and I wish that they hadn’t reset Chloe back to being a brat at the end of season three I feel like they should’ve just ended off there but then again at this point they’re just doing it for the money.
For me, the Love Square died in Season 3 when they introduced Kagami and Luka as potential love interests, but still shoved down our throats that Adrienette was the OTP, especially when Season 4 began. Yes im still salt over how quickly they broke up Lukanette and Adrigamo
Preach it!! The Season 5 finale as well as season 4 means NOTHING to me. Just got mini Adrigami and Lukanette moments. Dragging on the whole endgame stupid love square was simply boring. Everyone have a blessed Saturday October 14, 2023 at 9:20AM. 🔥🌸🔥🌸🔥
I never truly cared for the love square in the first place I cared more about Luka and Kagami and who they both would end up with honestly Luka and Kagami are my most favorite characters in the franchise.
@@ThehjhhhhhggttygRight!? I mean, even though I never saw either ship lasting long because neither pairing had the best chemistry in my eyes (not just because Adrienette was endgame), Luka and Kagami are both interesting characters. I love that they made Luka chill and emotionally mature and Kagami is absolutely hilarious and the kind of person I would be friends with. That episode when she gives Marinette dating advise from a romance manga was pure gold.😂
@@josephbiddle1637 yeah, there was a point where I would watch Marinette X cat noir but that’s the closest I ever got to caring about the love square. Edit : and even then I never truly care for the love, square. Edit 2: they just have so much more chemistry together. Seriously.
Two factors killed it: 1. The ONLY side that could ever be a lasting relationship pre-reveal is ladynoir, and the flagrant hypocricy on which adrinette is currently built means that the audience has to either have the memory of a goldfish, or to continue lying to themselves in order to believe in it (nevermind all the lies Marinette is currently feeding Adrien, mind that NOTHING has fundamentally changed since they had to dump Luka and Kagami because Secret Identites Must Be Secret) 2. Adrinette is shockingly poorly developed in S5, compared to the way the previous seasons went about all sides of the 'square. We really went from Adrien trying to kill Darker Owl over false ladynoir promises in one episode, to going "ladybug? who that? Marinette is the girl I love now" in the very next one. Ye gods. Could you not have given us at least ONE scene of his heart being torn between them? Disconnected from that, there is that whole thing where Adrien's entire storyline boils down to being pulled between his father and Ladybug, where his role as Cat Noir is the only way he can fight his father, and how it just seemed OBVIOUS that his finding love with Ladybug would be what would let him stop hoping to get it from his father and thus give him the strength to fight back against Hawkmoth even while knowing that it was his family. Ladynoir was inextricably tied to the thematic core of Adrien's obvious character arc ever since "The Bubbler", but we all know how THAT one ended.
I think Chat Blanc permanently killed LadyNoir and severely damaged the point of MariChat. The creators simply got it into their heads that any love of Adrien's alter ego would bring destruction to the world.
I think the only issue I have with the idea of LadyChat coming before Adrienette is that I LOVED that scene in season 5 (episode 12 I think?) when Ladybug and Chat Noir are talking about themselves finding partners in their personal lives and congratulating each other and talking like friends. That scene was just so wholesome and a welcome change from how things normally go with this series. No creepiness, no jealousy, just some well earned mutual excitement for each other’s happiness. I seriously wish we could’ve had at least a few more scenes like that.
Tbf you could probably still have that if you did it in this order - it would be a sign of growth for both of them, both accepting they can’t be together but still wishing the other happiness even if they wished they could be the one to give it to them still. It would be a good way to show character depth
Yeah I don't get why everyone puts ladynoir in the top of the love square yes it's pretty cute at times but out of all the ships from the love square ladynoir pissed me off the most I just really hate how cat noir is a purfert around ladybug and flirts with other girls just to make her jealous I really hate how people think the flirtling is cute it's not just her love for Adrian that she couldn't realize her feelings for cat noir so easily I think if cat noir was more murture ladybug wouldn't be so harsh with him that's one of my favorite things about season 5
Marinette’s obsession with Adrien was something that definitely should’ve been fixed a long time ago, with no traumatic backstory to justify it. Another thing was Luka and Marinette, their chemistry is amazing that I ended up rooting for them instead of the main ship.
@@michalelkin-bronner13 it's hard to agree with you when mari literally said that it isn't her fault that she's this way, nor adrian's. It's chloe's fault! Which the show treats like it obsolves her of all her wrong doings
The combination of the Carrot on the stick strategy (that lasted WAY too long), the MULTIPLE "what if?" Episodes, AND the Yandere Mari they don't see as creepy, weird and absolutely TERRIBLE. It just killed it for me. And the existence of puppeteer 2, and the show DEFENDING it by saying THAT was the moment Adrien fell for Mari, just makes things SO MUCH worse. And I question the studio's sanity for thinking this.
What made MariChat the supreme ship in my eyes was the fact that Adrien and Marinette both wanted someone to love them without their filters and masks. For Marinette Ladybug was always a mask, a need to be mature and serious and brave. Ladybug was never really allowed to be a teenager as shown in episode Gamer 2.0 Now let's look at Adrien, her other half, her opposite. Adrien had to always be the perfect person, the perfect son, model, student, fencer. Adrien wasn't allowed to have errors, he wasn't allowed to make connections that could look bad towards the public eye. Adrien was used as a puppet by Gabriel, always locked in. To Adrien Chat Noir resembled freedom, ease, time to play around, make friends, connect to people. It is ironic how they fell in love with the version the other liked least. MariChat is the corner of the love square where they can be the most free. Now, the two episodes that characterize Mari and Adrien the best are (undoubtedly) Sandboy and Chat Blanc. I will not take criticism on this. What does Sandboy teach us about Mari? She is afraid of not being enough, not enough to be loved by the boy she crushes on, not enough to fulfill her duty to master Fu, Tikki and all of Paris. Marinette is afraid to fail. What does Sandboy teach us about Adrien? Adrien is afraid to be locked in, to lose his freedom, to lose what being Chat Noir gives him. And at the same time, he as well is afraid of not being enough, not enough to deserve Ladybug's love, not enough to be worthy of affection. And yes, i say this is why he doesn't hesitate to sacrifice himself for her. He would rather die millions of times than fail the one person he feels safe to love. (Let's explain that last part: Adrien loves his friends, but if push comes to shove he knows his father could take them all away in a heartbeat. So being Chat Noir is his security. And Ladybug is the only friend his father can't take away easily. It's why he always tries to win her love, why he wants to know who she is, why he needs to know she won't leave him) Now, with it being established who Mari and Adrien are based on Sandboy, how does Chat Blanc come into it all? Chat Blanc is the prove to Mari that she can love Chat. And that he can love her despite who she is as a civilian. It isn't when Chat calls her his Lady but Marinette when she realizes that this is her partner, her other half who she lost. Chat Blanc is her hardest fight because she never wants to hurt him. And in the end she saves him not by beating him in battle but by talking to him and appealing to his humanity. Chat Blanc was the Akuma that needed her to be Marinette, not Ladybug. It needed the girl behind the mask. How does this make MariChat better in my eyes than LadyNoir (even though that is a close 2nd to me)? MariChat is very balanced, Chat needs comfort without feeling trapped, while Mari needs someone to accept her for who she is, all her flaws included. And they can be that for another, they can be safe with another. Because Mari is normality to Chat while Chat is security to Mari. Tl;Dr: MariChat is best cuz Mari and Chat are the versions with the least pressure on them
@@redrasegarden that’s a very simplistic answer but the simple truth is that these were the consequences we established quite early on. We knew from at latest episode 5 that losing any miraculous would be a big hawk moth victory and they had to be extremely careful with info. Them not doing it was well justified in the story
@@thanatosdriver1938 only sort of. We know hawkmoth was interested in the miraculous, but not there identity’s. So considering they fight the same bad guy and have the same circle of friends, why couldn’t they tell each other who they were?It’s one thing not to tell your civilian friends and family, but you’re parter? You probably would also work more efficiently as a team if you did know.
The one major thing that miraculous is missing is the themes. Themes usually allows for structural flow of the story. Where I think miraculous could work well with seasonal themes. Like for example season one could be about naïveté. Season two could about the constant hero battles becoming more of a chore and Gabriel becomes more irrational with his thinking. Which allows for some of the side heroes and secondary antagonist two appear. While season three could be about recklessness and the building of stress. Allowing for season four the be a breaking point for mini characters within the show. Meaning season five could of been healing and becoming a better person from you older self.
I'm really disappointed that Marichat was killed off so quickly. I think some of my favorite episodes were when Ladybug was chasing Cat Noir and calling him her kitty. I really enjoyed that dynamic. I think they should have explored that more for the entire season. Do I think this Adrinette has killed all hype for the show? No, I don't think so but I'm also not running the numbers for viewership after season 5. What's really driving the show is what they setup from the very beginning, that Ladybug and Cat Noir clearly have feelings for each other and have such a good dynamic that you just want to see them finally reveal and get together. Ladybug has ran away and denied any feelings she's ever had for cat noir even though they're clearly there. What we can be excited for now is a growth in the relationship between Adrien and Marinette, where there's going to be some turbulence or at least there should be, because of how much ladybug has kept from Adrien. If this isn't a point of issue for them in season 6, I don't even understand what they're trying to do with the show anymore. But, I'm excited to see the growing pains that come and how they finally get to the reveal.
@@Thehjhhhhhggttyg well they do all the time for the money, but yea, they would try milk the franchise all the way now, because after nearly ten years I can't belive it will still be so popular. And yea, most healthy from square was MariChat and Ladrien. The producers should try something like "reveal the truth to Adrien about Gabe" but I can't belive they do that, instead of "Lila, the monster of the week" and still try to do more love square. Still they don't know whos under mask.
@@ShimospeherI'm okay with Adrian not finding out his father is hawk month but yeah ladybug should regret hiding things from cat noir especially the cat blac thing damn if Marinette is going to get called out for lying to impress Adrian why not Lila? I couldn't take the lie either I probably would have exposed her lie myself I don't care if the other person disagrees me
Season 5 barely had the flirty ,Marichat/Ladynoir dynamic. I think that was one of the biggest reasons, people liked them together. Now they are kinda boring like Ladrien. They're always loveydovey, or Marinette is depressed, but there is no tention like before.
Honestly I wished the Marinette obsession was a bit too extreme (and not in a funny way), and like most people I feel like the Love Square plot was dragged out. I also really don't like the thing where Cat Noir got shoved aside in general in Season 4. Honestly CN and LB had a great chemistry and it got dropped for some reason.
Well the whole thing were cat noir was useless around season 4 the reedming quality is it got cat noir to get over ladybug start to act more murture speak for yourselves he's sometimes a piss off to me
I still think about how the writers killed Ladynoir, in the most cold-hearted way possible. You watch episodes from season 1 like Stormy Weather, Dark Cupid or Princess Fragrance and see how much tension there was in the fight because they weren't just fighting a villain, they were looking out for each other too. Watching them fight crime after squashing ladynoir the way they did was just... boring. There wasn't even a friendly affection between the two. They would always 'say' there was, but there's a reason 'show not tell' is important. Not only that, I found the way Chat Noir came to treat Ladybug in later seasons completely out of character for himself, and I found ladybug to be unexpectedly cruel and it left a bitter taste in my mouth for the rest of the show
The problem with the show is they are so focused on the end game that everything else is pushed aside. Adrien and Marinette is the only thing that matters, having other relationships is seen as a crime apparently, and that really kills the romance for me. Luka and Marinette should have dated for a bit, MariChat should have dated for a bit, or even a while. LadyNoir would have been perfect for the second-to-last-ship to sail before Adrienette. Adrienette is End Game, as in it should have been left for the END, in my opinion.
I haven't watched this show, but I have heard of the love square. And while I get the intrigue and the appeal of having 4 different dynamics with the same 2 people, I'm also baffled that there are 4 different ships of THE SAME 2 PEOPLE. And they have SHIPPING WARS over this? They're the SAME 2 PEOPLE, YOU'RE ON THE SAME TEAM
I had lost interest in Miraculous in the 6-month hiatus between Multiplication and Destruction, but seeing the reverse love square drew me right back in, only for me to be super disappointed when they got rid of it immediately.
I fell in love with the first season during the moment when Marinette and Adrien were under the umbrella. That was a cute episode, it made me want to see more progress of Adrien and Marinette's friendship. But the more of the show I watched, the confusing and chaotic the show became for me. There were moments where it looked like that there was finally some progress with their relationship, but nah it always went back to Marinette creepily stalking, doubting, misunderstanding etc. While Adrien remained clueless and kept in the dark. Their relationship felt more distanced than anything. Whether any of that was intentionally written or not, in the end their relationship was poorly written. Eventually, I stopped watching miraculous because they kept dragging on the ship. There was no progress. It always ended up with Adrien and/ or Marinette being heartbroken and it became a bit repetitive . There were other reasons as to why I stopped watching, but the ship is what really kept me watching the show, I really wanted to see their relationship grow! That said I have a lot of thoughts and opinions on the show, too much to write down. But, I would have loved to make a fan fic. I'd make Adrien uptight, and because of his upbringing, he's a diligent worker, but all the pressure makes him long for freedom and he's not socially adept. It's not until he meets Marinette, a carefree, extroverted girl that he becomes envious of. But she lacks the diligence that Adrien has. When they become heroes, Marinette/ Ladybug being the carefree girl she is, recklessly swings around and has no idea how her powers are meant to work. Adrien/ Chatnoir is appalled with the powers he has, he thinks its dangerous and it does not suit him. When he meets Ladybug, he panics at her actions and tries to control her. Overtime they learn about their abilities, and help each other. Chatnoir teaches her responsibility and diligence, while Ladybug teaches him to relax and be free. I'm thinking of Adrien being the only one to have learned about her Identity, and then chooses to help her out in College, and slowly going from being envious to falling in love. As for the Villain, I'm still thinking about that. I kinda took inspiration from the Anime version with Felix and Bridgette.
I love how in other fandoms you'll see people arguing about different shipps, meanwhile in the MLB fandom you'll see people arguing over the same shipp but with different Fortnite skins
I love your vision. Honestly, i feel like miraculous should have been a more continuous story rather than just monster of the week from the start. Feel like you could wrap up the entire plot in 4 seasons and give plenty of time to each part of love square. First season could be the buildup to the first relationship. All the shenanigans we know and love and since we're editing, with less stalking. Marinette and group makes all these schemes to confess to Adrien, Chat Noir keeps flirting with ladybug and keeps trying to ask her out..yada yada and we could slowly build up on ladrien. Second season half of it could be ladrien now together but steadily drifting apart coz of all the secrecy, at the exact pt they break up and second half is the aftermath, healing their hearts and gradually drawing towards the other counterpart in the love square. In the last episode they have both fallen again. Third season-entirely marichat until they break up in the finale and break all the fans' hearts and finally fourth scene would be ladynoir. Just those two against the world. Instead all we got was three seasons of complete stagnancy in both relationships and plot but then they realise they have to finish this by season 5 so everything feels rushed by the end. If they had developed the plot well from the start we could have had a very nice and toit 4 seasons of miraculous and then did a timeskip moving onto the next chapter of their lives.
Honestly, the running theme of this show seems to be wasted potential. The love square COULD'VE went somewhere. Chloe COULD'VE had a great redemption arc. Gabe COULD'VE been an interesting villain. So much wasted potential.
Adrien learning Ladybug is interested in her and Marinette learning Adrien is interested in Ladybug would effect not just their relationships but also characters themselves the way they see themselves. For example Adrien might gain self worth for learning Ladybug cares a lot for him even when he isnt a hero. Or may think that Ladybug is another fan of him and likes perfect boys which would effect Ladynoir relationship. Marinette might decide that she can be more confident like her Ladybug alter ego. It would have many different consequences.
Honestly the thing I hated was how long it dragged out. In the earlier seasons we got moments with each ship but only season 5 we got the square by which point everyone got bored of the characters and they rushed the romantic arcs because they realised people no longer cared
I disagree, I dont like the idea of Ladybug and Adrien essentially cheating on Luka like that. Also, that would imply Marinette would not only cheat, but sacrafice Adrien's safety and jeapordize her identity as Ladybug. I think what killed the love square is how long the show dragged them on. Honestly, its so much cooler to see Marinette and Adrien get closer and have them slowly deduce the other is a super hero.
They ruined it the minute they had Adrien fall for Marinette bc of a cringe moment that immediately had him breaking her heart in the car ride after. None of significant moments Adrinette had bonding in the first 3 seasons apparently did it, despite his immense interest and flirtatious behavior toward Marinette from season feckin ONE. Nah, the moment she unknowingly violated his personal boundaries is what cinched it for him. Forget the times she was doing cooler shit before, or the time he spent with her and her parents, or hell, even her Multimouse miracle save. Sheesh, with that kind of mentality, Chloe should have been able to claim him from first episode 😂 And then of course, they decided to speedrun all the other obstacle romances and sides of the square, bc it wasn't enough to ruin the endgame pairing--they had to go for the gold.
i enjoy the love square, but its way too stretched out. i feel like they could have shorten the whole 5 seasons into 2-3 seasons, and then they could start a new story with lila.
Adrinette becoming canon spelled the death of Ladynoir. The death of Ladynoir spelled the death of any interesting tension or dynamic between the main characters. Akuma Attacks became a bore and suddenly their cringy civilian relationship and Marinette’s retconned trauma became the central focus. Whether people will admit it or not, the show was mainly appealing because of the superhero drama and Ladynoir’s dynamic. Adrientte mainly just provided cringe. Not only that, Adrinette becoming canon crapped on Season 4’s continuity. Suddenly, Ladybug and Chat Noir forgot the lesson of communicating and holding each other close and just kinda ditched their friendship. No more partnership, I guess. It got so bad that Chat Noir was just written out of the finale.
Each other these ships deserved some time to shine, you're absolutely right. I am so disappointed that Adrienette sailed before LadyNoir. It's cute, don't get me wrong, but I thought Adrienette would have happened near the END of the show. Now I just don't care about the reveal bc what's the point anymore?
i never really cared about it but i liked the Love Square in Season 1 too 3 it was funny that Marinette could not talk to Adrien and that he as Chat Noir tried to flirt with Lady Bug but than it got boring and the random Swap in Season 5 destroyd it for me they should have done that earlier
How I feel about the love squares: Ladrien: He always had crush on Ladybug not knowing who she really is. Really wished the writers would've went deeper into this square. I really felt like they could've had a deep connection. Lukanette: I liked it a lot and wished it could've lasted longer. Luka helped Marinette be honest and clear about her feelings for Adrien. If only the writers would have kept it pushing so Marinette could see what a healthy relationship looks like. I'm still pissed at the fact that they had Marinette and Luka break up at the end of the episode Truth. Adrigami: How I viewed this love square? I felt like Kagami was more invested in this relationship than he was. Because most of the time? Adrien was crushing on Ladybug while being with Kagami. When it came to the end of Season 3, he didn't want to kiss her. And on this one? I felt bad for Kagami even though the relationship was based on lies said my cousin. Feligami: Really love this ship but it felt forced because after Emotion going to Pretension, they ended up together at the end of the episode. But I have to give them credit for the story of sentimonsters in Representation. Wish we could have seen more of that. MariChat: I saw that more as a platonic friendship. Going from Glaciator all the way to Elation. They were so cute together. Adrienette: I don't know what to say about this square? It started off with Marinette and Adrien becoming friends. Then she developed a crush on him stalking Adrien almost everyday. I rooted for them since the very beginning but now? It's gone too far especially with Alya and her friends planning to help Marinette pursue Adrien. Now here we are in Season 5 and both of them are together. Ladynoir: Ladybug always told Cat Noir she's in love with someone else while Cat Noir constantly was trying to woo her and she'd blow him off every time. But then all of that changed after Determination and Passion. Unpopular opinion: The fact that people thought after Marinette and Adrien broke up with Luka and Kagami? That Luka and Kagami would get together when really it was never gonna happen. Same for Lila and Felix when that wasn't gonna happen either. Or how about the fact that in Derision, Marinette used to have a crush on Kim. Like..... Damn Marinette How many people did you have a crush on before Adrien???? And that was prior to before the show even began.
@@milkywaycafe. I believe that too. Luka was the type that was really chill and didn't care what nobody thought about him. He would do anything for his friends.
I never liked the idea to begin with, since I hate forced drama, but your ideas sound way more reasonable than any crap that Tommy and his flying monkeys could have ever pooped out. Zag could do it as good IMO. But yeah, not good buildup for not very good payoff...ugh.
I cant lie if the story turned out how you suggested it would've broken the internet even more than cat blanc did, its a REALLLY great way of using the love square. But they obviously ruined it the way it is
My issue is just god the pacing of this show went from 3/100 to 15/100 and everything is suddenly out of sorts. We needed more time to breath now as opposed to the earlier seasons
the love square died when Luka was introduced as a love interest. Obviously better match, better human, better ship, and they broke them up after not even a full episode of having them together. They could've done that so much better, and not yeet Luka out of the picture for absolutely no reason. Yes, I have been shipping Lukanette since it was introduced, and I was kicked off many platforms by angry preteens because of the fact. Justice for Luka, justice for Lukanette. (also justice for Ladynoir, because the movie nailed that on the head fr)
i will never forgive them for what they did to ladynoir…it’s the most unique side of the love square for me like who wouldn’t want to see superheroes in love/teasing each other?? instead they settled for the normal high school students romance…BORING. and the fact that their attempt at reverse ladynoir (ladybug chases after chat noir) was done so poorly is an absolute crime. not only was it for less than a few episodes, but you mean to tell me that chat noir isn’t even ACKNOWLEDGING ladybug’s sudden advances and just brushes it off after pinning after her relentlessly before?? it makes him even more of a smooth brain and kind of unnatural...would’ve at least expected him to be a little flustered and shocked meanwhile he’s just like “wow my miraculous is really making you act differently” in that one episode 😐
The love square was probably the greatest asset the authors had in their hands to develop the characters, their relationships AND advance the plot, too. And they wasted it all...
I’ve had the same ideas.The only thing I would “change”/ add to your plan is that after ladybug and cat noir date we would have marinate and Adrian date this in my opinion would be the most “relaxed” ship and then they we get the the superhero identity reveal.
I like your version so much better Smarty. Agreed Adrinette shouldn’t have been a thing till the very end after ID reveal. It’s the fakest one. People get fake crushes on celebrities all the time. Also she acts like a typical stalker and he is revealed to “like” it? He liked the statue scene? Cringe writing. Also lmao at the dodos! 😂
The love square was one of reason why Miracolous was so popular and the first why I start to love the show. Yea Agreste Arc was interesting (not want to say how that end) and I usually not like romances in most media, but the fact that two people have four ship possibility was refreshing, not to mention other potential love interest. At end of S3 I think that Lukanette and Adrigami was even more better and Luka & Kagami were better suit for main characters. Better chemistry, Kagami gave Adrien determinity he need and Luka was more serious than Adi. Anyway as said before the Agreste arc and lovesquare should finish sooner, max at S4. In S5 it feel rushed to me and silenced more by whole Monarch thing. I would do something like this - in S4 made a whole love square, but hit back heroes. Like Marinette finally give up Adrien (only a friend) and similar Chat on Ladybug (she love another). Then something like Marichat, and Adrien try to strike Marinette (but she's not interest) and Ladybug to Chat (similar like before) and mix chemistry in Ladrien. Then at the end suprise suprise reveal. And yea, after love square resolve and Agreste arc I think show start to fall on popularity, even if you have now manga, movie etc. It's understable that you had everything now when have a culmination of 8 years story, but let's be honest. In S6 it will back to monster of the week, like in S1 (to me it was nothing special, in S2 the show start to have balls) and I even see the producers still try to milk out the love drama (like heroes still not know who is who). It's funny to me that movie made thing better than whole ten year show.
I love every ship in the love square including Ladrien/Adribug equally very much. (even when it annoys me at times.. Never been a fan of slow burns and this was certainly the slowest of burns -_-) What I personally would have enjoyed seeing was each ship of that love square being explored (after season 1) with the good and the bad for each ship ending with Adrienette being together in the start of season 5 or ending with Ladynoir finally revealing their identities and being together completely in every corner of that love square by the end of season 5 (After Monarch is gone and they have a bit of respite to do so) I'm no writer by any means so I don't even know if that'd make sense or if it'd even work but that's what I wish could have happened in the show..
I know I'm in the minority, but I would have loved for there to be one "SnekMouse" episode with the return of Aspik amd Multimouse just so there could be more secret identity shenanigans. I think such an episode would have been a great way of addressing the romantic dynamics especially since both parties have to pretend not to know who the other is.
also, its called “tales of ladybug and cat noir” not “tales of marinette and adrien” in season 5 they focused more on character development then the actual battles, which is unfortunate because the battles are the whole shows purpose AND name
Marichat is 100% my favourite because it honestly reminds me of how me and my boyfriend act at times, like it's cute and also realistic, I love them together because it's the only ship that feels real
At this point I kind of hope Marinette and ADREIN could break up and we could get ladynoir until they eventually reveal their identities and we can get a little bit from every corner of the square
Honestly yeah, each of the pairs for the love square needed better balancing (And better writing in general, but I think we all already agree on that). Marichat and Ladrien get shafted or are practically non-existant in the show while LadyChat and Adrienette flounder for multiple seasons, plus throwing a wrench in with Kagami and Luka just to complicate/distract things further. Personally, I agree with others that Marichat should've been the starting point for their characters getting together. Not there from the beginning of course but developing a season or two in. Cause like people have said, they feel the most free and genuine as those personas. Adrien escapes from his restrictive life and Marinette doesn't have such heavy responsibilities/isn't as serious. With that in mind, Ladychat and Adrienette just needed to slowly be dialed back till they were only friends. Ladychat already has a great dynamic between the two, they'd just have Chat stop constantly confessing his love to Ladybug, keep it to playful banter. And with Adrienette I will say the show does somewhat decently develop them to casually hang out more (though often in a group setting) over time, it could just progressively have Marinette stop being flustered and falling over herself (And stop her from being a stalker, obsessive, and downright creepy at times about him). As for Ladrien, honestly I think a Mary Jane/Spider-Man or Lois Lane/Superman situation would fit best. Like Adrian would constantly be framed in the "damsel in distress" role with Ladybug swooping in to save him. Though this works best in my head if Gabe was written as a better father, cause he'd want his son out of harms way (not use him as a pawn/tool). So he'd either let Ladybug save him or she'd rescue him if the villain was trying to get him away from the action. This idea for the ship would also kinda need Chatnoir's love confessions to be out of the public eye since they'd need to anchor in on Ladrien rather than LadyChat like the show naturally is.
I actually really liked lukanette more than ladrien and adrienette. But yeah the love square wrapping up the way it did was so unsatisfying I’m like 90% sure Austruc read a lot of fanfic read a couple videos essays on infinity war and wanted to “subvert expectations” with the Ladybug Finale.
Yeah Marichat was the best ship and the way they ended it was just lame. I also was thinking that Ladynoir would become canon first, and then they would do it like the spiderman meme, because the way S4 ended, with Chat Noir holding his hand out to Ladybug, letting her know that he would always be by her side, and her blushing, made it seem like it was finally going to happen...and then how it didn't was frustrating. It was extra frustrating how everyone tried to tell her that her love for him was misdirected...
Honestly I've been a big Lukanette shipper for a long time, but that's mostly bc canon's "Adrian can do no wrong" attitude even when he is doing things very wrong killed any desire I had for Marinette to end up with them. I don't know, it started to feel like she was a much healthier version of herself with Luka. But I would have been okay with your version of events, esp if it came with less unnecessary cringe from Marinette or sexual harassment from Adrien
I was kinda out of the love square since it kept going on. I’m not a fan of “will they won’t they?” In a way that just feels- I dunno? Dragged out? Mean? It’s just- not fun and not well written. They could’ve focused on making the story better and not just a love square. The lore was there- it just fell short
I love your channel and your theories. Your criticism is fair, unlike some channels that just hate the show and ngl. If MLB ever comes to the public domain, then I will try to make one like this if I have the time and money because I would love to make one that captures the main essence of MLB but is better.
I'm pretty sure Lyla/Lily/Crease will cause trouble between the two lovebirds causing Marinette to break up with Adrien for a while til it gets straightened out, Adrien will probably persue her as Cat Noir because he can't live without her in his life, and at some point Lyla will end up revealing their identities I'm happy with Adrien falling out of love with Ladybug and In Love with Marinette and not because she is Ladybug, it shows he truly loves Marinette for who she is not because she is Ladybug When they reveal identities the love square will happen and André Glossier will be confused and angry again thinking they are cheating on each other
Mannnnnn i wished they had given Ladrien a tiny arc 😞 i know ppl dont like that ship but i think its kinda cute how awkward they are together. I think if they had a storyline it would be kinda toxic obviously since they’re obsessed with each other but idk i think it would be a good plot line. I think they would end up breaking up because their personal lives would get in the way either that or because theyre just too clingy with eachother loll but like bruh imagine magazines with Ladybug and Adrien 😭 the paparazzi would go insane 💀
I think it it should have ended faster, no extra love interests, less stalking and being pushy and then going the marychat route. So that they get to know and like their most authentic versions.
Whilst the ending of ladynoir was shit and they even failed marichat but on the plus side my favourite ship (adrienette) was the one that standed out of all of the other ships
Yeah you brought up some really good points. Honestly just happy they actually did something with the romance. They did have time liking both versions of each other. I agree your approach using all 4 ships would have been so much more entertaining and well written. The show would have actually been great. Well what can I expect. I think they did good at least in comparison to earlier seasons. But could have done so so much more with it.
Ah, the many permutations of a single romantic pairing. It was quite the novel concept... One that I felt was handcrafted to torture me, for my hatred of romantic B plots. 😂😅
Before Adrigami and Lukanette appeared in season 2 I did crave Maricat in this stupid love square. Yes, it was the most healthy side where things could grow naturally with no forced feelings or situations thrown in. Anyway, Smarty Pants your Miraculous videos always hace passion even if it's RIGHTFULLY hated in bits too. Please NOTHING in this series is good let alone close to trying to be perfect. Everything of this series should have truly and completely ended in season 3 Finale. Leaving the forever illusion of Adrigami/Lukanette at the river side. But whatever, I saw the end of season 5. Things were again rushed, tossed and smacked down to make Kagami's Adrien and Luka's Marinette together. Sorry rant off topic to a degree, Stupid Love Square, plain and simple. I'd prefer a reverse since season 1. Ladybrat hungry for Cattastic Kitty as Adrien crushes on Mari. Everyone have a blessed Saturday October 14, 2023 at 9:17AM. 🌸🔥🌸🔥
The sailing of Adrienette was always going to be the end of the Love Square, and I do feel like that had to happen in Season 5 for the culmination of the Gabriel arc. Especially with what's most likely coming down the pike. This ship is NOT gonna have smooth sailing for very long. Marinette is keeping a massive secret from Adrien, and who knows what will happen the moment he finds out.
I hated the execution but I'm so glad they put some of us to rest. I know a lot of us were sticking it through all the pain just to see a conclusion to this love square and I think they gave us a good stopping point in season 5 and I'm happy for that.
To me I wish Marinette would just confess to Adrien instead of being a stalker ever since season 2 Marinette was acting like a jerk to max about not playing video games with him in the episode gamer 2.0 and season 3 Marinette told Adrien there just not right for eachother in the episode catblanc since master fu had said those two are made for eachother in season 1 origin story stone heart and in season 4 glaciator 2 ladybug was mad at catnoir about the couple of the year and made catnoir's heart broken 😢 and in season 5 determination passion elation transmission Marinette didn't love Adrien and she wanted Luka back so they could be together again 😢
Hm, fair and valid points and opinions, your take were pretty interesting too. Honestly, at this point, i wonder how a Reboot/Remake would go, actually would a Reboot/Remake even be worth making? Also, what is the difference between a Reboot and Remake anyway?
Honestly, I used to ship Adrien and Marinette when i first started watching the show, but as time went on and the show continued to write them horribly it made me see them both in different lights, it was also just super cringey to the point where I had to take breaks while watching an episode. The marichat was cute and interesting but it felt to rushed and overlooked, kinda just thrown in there last minute so the writers could say they did it. Adrien and ladybug, it was alright I get why they have moments in there and it does help to complete the love square and set up any relevant future points such as Adrien seeing marinette act like ladybug and then falling for her, and it does feel real as if it were two teenagers. Adrien and Marinette its just plain creepy and weird the way it’s written and I wish they would have taken more time to write her better. The alternative ships are fun when they’re just thrown into the mix not them actually dating or anything but just some fun little scenes would have been nice rather then just one episode of them dating then breaking up. All in all I just think that this show could have been written and paced better then it is and more time developing the relationships of the main ships or the end game ship
I mean you nailed why Marichat was the most popular- it wasn't "for some reason", it was because they could just be themselves. It was also the only times we really see them as themselves, period, and also not being sad or stressed. The problem is that Marichat should have been used as a key point in the love square for that reason. It's a fantastic transition point. Marichat would fix a lot of the problems they have as a superhero team, where Ladybug is often incredibly heartless towards Cat Noir, and where he frequently crosses her boundaries. I would not have her start to fall in love with Cat Noir, but I would have him start to fall in love with Marinette. I would have her start to be attracted to him, though. This would make her basically forget to be weird around Adrien in any capacity because she's so focused on keeping her feelings for Cat Noir in check. She's seen how being in love with her has gotten him hurt countless times. She's kinder to Cat Noir but still a little distant as she tries to not fall for him. I would have maybe kept the Adrigami and Lukanette stuff, but either I'd make it obvious both them are only doing it because they're forced to by their friends in Marinette and Luka's case or by parents in the case of Adrien and Kagami. Adrien and Kagami are forced together first, after which Marinette's friends force her to go out with Luka since they get along well and he's very nice and such and she needs to get over Adrien if he's got a girlfriend. There would have some romantic tension build *after* they're forced together, but Kagami and Adrien are just really not clicking until Felix switches in to take Kagami on a date because Adrien really, really doesn't want to go (then an akuma attack happens anyway). I like the idea of her figuring it out very quickly but keeping silent, at least until the end of the first date where she just very cuttingly is like "I knew you weren't Adrien the whole time" and expresses that she actually had a better time with Felix than with Adrien, so they can keep their little secret. Cuz honestly? I don't see her not figuring out she wasn't on a date with Adrien, and I don't see her staying silent about it after the first date. Luka and Marinette start out with him being more in to her than she is in to him, but he also understands he's kind of the rebound guy. He finds out her identity very early on while they're dating, and while never admits to it, says he understands when she has to bail on him. She eventually does start to reciprocate, but the guilt of having to bail on him all the time starts to eat at her, along with seeing him get hurt by so many akumas because he, for some reason, keeps showing up at the akuma attacks. She assumes it's because she gave him the Snake Miraculous even though this is something he only recently began doing, since she'd have no way of knowing the real reason is because he now knows his girlfriend is the one fighting. He clarifies things when she, after a fight where he got hurt, she tries to tell him she can't call on him ever again: "That's not why I'm here, Ladybug. I'm here because someone I love seems to always be in danger, and I want to be here in case she needs me" and she's confused as to who he means but he doesn't elaborate, so she assumes he just means Juleka. Luka also clocks that there's some chemistry between Cat Noir and Ladybug, but doesn't let it bother him. I think there should have been an episode where Monarch uses a sentimonster of Luka to try and akumatise Marinette, since he seemed pretty aware she was unique and would make a very powerful akuma. Even though he has no idea she's Ladybug, it does put things into perspective for her that not only is she incredibly vulnerable around Luka (indeed, her most vulnerable; she almost outs herself to him on her own before she ever tells Alya), but he can be used against her if he ever did find out. He almost got her, but the real Luka came in and interrupted the situation since Gabe is still at his core a smoothbrain who forgot to make sure Luka was out of the picture. Luka himself gets akumatised instead to protect her, and *that* is when we get the akuma Truth, since he wouldn't have needed to become it earlier since he found out very early in their relationship. But he has a tiny bit of control so he never outs her identity, and in this episode is when he finds out about Adrien's identity. Luka realises the danger he puts Marinette in and the fact she is also very much aware of the danger he is in because of her, and takes the initiative to break things off with her. They're both devastated, but both feel it's what needs to be done. Luka also drops a slight hint to her about Cat Noir and Adrien, but it sails over her head bc it'd be incredibly vague. In the background, Marichat has been going places, and Cat Noir has actively expressed interest in Marinette. He can't do anything as Adrien because he's with Kagami (unaware that she knows she's actually dating Felix), but he's there for her after her breakup with Luka. Him checking in on her after this, every night, is what starts to tip her into giving into her feelings for Cat Noir that have been bubbling below the surface. He takes her out, treats her incredibly well (just like Luka) but they really, truly *get* each other and can relax around each other because they know each other so well. There's a tonne of romantic attraction that builds and builds, but because as Adrien he has that tie to Kagami, even if he's not interested, he never acts on. But it's clear he's fallen in love with Marinette. She keeps trying to build the wall around her heart to protect her from falling in love with him, but it doesn't work. Eventually Adrien finds out Kagami knew all along she was actually dating Felix, and she tells him he's free to pursue whoever he wants to, as he has no obligations to her. They'll figure out how to tell their parents later. We spend some time with Marichat as a couple, but they both know it won't last because he's a superhero who can't reveal his identity to her, and she's just a civilian to him. Both of them acknowledge that, but also both of them know they can make it happen with their other identity. The problem with Adrinette isn't the ship itself, it's the fact it wasn't utilised right imo. I think Adrinette is a step that has to be taken to get to Ladynoir. Each permutation of the square should have been a step to get to another one (except for Ladrien). Marichat should have been used to lead into Adrinette, which should have led into Ladynoir. Because Marichat can't last, I think Adrinette should have come from its ashes as Adrien takes the step to pursue Marinette in his civilian life now that he's been freed of his obligations to Kagami. He's already started to act the same around her as both Adrien and Cat Noir, because he knows she's a safe person to do that around. Marinette notices the similarities and sometimes forgets which one she's talking to and has to play it off, but because she does this, Adrien starts to catch on and notices simiarities between Ladybug and Marinette. Both of them sometimes forget which one they're talking to, because talking to Adrien/Cat Noir and Marinette/Ladybug feels exactly the same to them. Adrien is the first to start to actually wonder if Marinette and Ladybug are the same person, which causes a domino effect of him really noticing the similarities. It takes Marinette longer to catch on because she just doesn't want to catch on. But she does notice and does start to wonder, and then remembers what Luka told her when they broke up, and is hit with not just the realisation that Adrien IS Cat Noir, but Luka knows. She also realises this means Luka knows she's Ladybug. This just leaves Adrien to not know for certain, until Luka also drops a hint to him before he leaves for not just his protection, but for Adrien and Marinette's. Luka thinks its best they do know, but that they also need to figure it out for themselves and sort it out for themselves. Luka is a character who believes truth and honesty are the best policies; he has a whole episode about it in the canon show. He also understands theres a time and a place for honesty, and thinks Adrien and Marinette will get there with a little help. So he gives them both the very vague tool they need to get there. And I think he should be portrayed as 100% correct- they do work better as a team knowing the other's identity, and they are still extremely careful with their identities. Cuz the problem in the reveal episodes is never that they found out, it's always been that they get careless. I've never really... liked the idea of them seeing each other transform/detransform to find out the identities and it being a huge shock. I want them to figure it out, with Marinette wanting to reject it because it scares her as much as it makes her happy, and with Adrien being the other way around, and have it confirmed to them by either seeing the other transform/detransform, or they agree it's finally time. much more dramatic that way I think.
I don’t even think this version of yours is milking it, I think it’s just putting it to good narrative use rather than shoving new characters for romances no one really wanted. It gives them personality fs
To me what killed the Love Square was just that they didnt actually use the love square until damn SEASON 5. People say it dragged out but I feel the writters didn't even tackle it until recently. Since season 1 people been talking about how Marichat is the best one, not just because they dont revert to awkwardness, but because that allows Marinette to like the ''real'' version of Adrien (not his complete self, but way more of himself then his normal day-to-day persona), and not an image of him. She only talks about that on damn SEASON 5, noticing that ''ive liked him for so long but don't even know him''. And the appeal of LadyNoir was also about how she could be more open about her superhero life with him, and how he could help being her emotional anchor with so much on her shoulders (again, tackled ONLY on season 5). The love square had so much potential, not only because of the basic permutations, but because how they could change as the characters developed (as how LadyNoir from season 1 wouldn't be nearly the same as a season 5 LadyNoir, or how Adriennete from the end of the series is way more healthy then from the beginning even when they don't know each other's identities yet, just on how they changed views on one another). I feel them rerouting to Kagami and Luka could also have been used as a way to change the love square more naturally, like how Marinette would like Luka's maturity and counsels, but wouldn't be able to share the same with him as she could with Chat, while Adrien could begin to really like Kagami, but don't feel she could give the same encouragement to face his fears like Marinette helped him.
I Hate This show. Thomas could had have a good show but failed miserablly i mean the fact that a terrorist is redeemable but a thirteen yearold is a spawn of satan thomas is terrible writer and I hope he learns his lesson
😅 no I totally agree with you they didn't take full advantage of it which is kind of sad because this is the only show the only movie or anything that I know of that can do a love square and successfully if written right honestly I wish they took more advantage of it they could have done so much it could have made the story better and honestly I would have loved more of a marichat cuz honestly it's the perfect relationship because they're falling in love with both of the sides of themselves that isn't perfect 😊 so no I totally agree
In my opinion i think when luka and Marinette and Kagami and Adriana break up (they could do it longer not just in 2 episodes but whatever) then cat noir getting back to lady bug and Marinette starting to like chat noir but it will take like sezon 4 she is starting to like him and sezon 5 she definitely like him and in real life Adrinette, they have some romantic moments too but most of all lady noir. And the fact that they just forget about the dream in the darkes owl makes me a little bit mad... 😕
I think they can try something even on 6th season... some drama about the secrets they need to hide from the other, they can break up for a bit or something... idk I just want some ladynoir since Marichat is dead already... Still #MarichatForever
i personally was angry at the season 5 finale Because marinette has Adrien all to herself now!!! And marinette stalked Adrien in season 1 and 2 and 3 and stopped in season 4 and came back to do it again!!! I'm a adrienette hater 100% i love juleka and rose together they are so cute and Luka and Adrien too 🥰❤
So i guess my question is: will there even be a reveal? I mean we've been waiting for literal years but now that endgame is canon, will they even have a need to reveal their identities anymore?
I will NEVER forget about how the writers failed ladynoir, the way the ship ended was honestly one of the worst ways I've seen a ship end 💀
The episode of Lady Noir pinning for Mister Bug is SO DAMN GOOD. All for it to end on the very next episode.
@@felipecouto1102 idk how people fail with this but ladynoir is the ship name for lb and cn. ladynoire is mari’s superhero name with the cat miraculous 😭 (noir is for men and noire is for girls)
Marichat...
Yes it just ended and no one acknowledged it lol
IKR!
To me what killed it is it didn't happen earlier, they dragged it out way too long
Like the series
@@Thehjhhhhhggttygikr they could’ve ended it in s5 with a reveal and Haekmoth being defeated
@@Thehjhhhhhggttygthey could’ve even ended it back In s3 or 4 but ‘NOO’
@@The_Palette01 yeah and I wish that they hadn’t reset Chloe back to being a brat at the end of season three I feel like they should’ve just ended off there but then again at this point they’re just doing it for the money.
Thomas is ruining the show by himself
For me, the Love Square died in Season 3 when they introduced Kagami and Luka as potential love interests, but still shoved down our throats that Adrienette was the OTP, especially when Season 4 began.
Yes im still salt over how quickly they broke up Lukanette and Adrigamo
Preach it!! The Season 5 finale as well as season 4 means NOTHING to me. Just got mini Adrigami and Lukanette moments. Dragging on the whole endgame stupid love square was simply boring.
Everyone have a blessed Saturday October 14, 2023 at 9:20AM. 🔥🌸🔥🌸🔥
Lukanette and Adriengami was cute ships but since Adrien and marinette are super heros and they have to lie it didn't work
I never truly cared for the love square in the first place I cared more about Luka and Kagami and who they both would end up with honestly Luka and Kagami are my most favorite characters in the franchise.
@@ThehjhhhhhggttygRight!? I mean, even though I never saw either ship lasting long because neither pairing had the best chemistry in my eyes (not just because Adrienette was endgame), Luka and Kagami are both interesting characters. I love that they made Luka chill and emotionally mature and Kagami is absolutely hilarious and the kind of person I would be friends with. That episode when she gives Marinette dating advise from a romance manga was pure gold.😂
@@josephbiddle1637 yeah, there was a point where I would watch Marinette X cat noir but that’s the closest I ever got to caring about the love square.
Edit : and even then I never truly care for the love, square.
Edit 2: they just have so much more chemistry together. Seriously.
Two factors killed it:
1. The ONLY side that could ever be a lasting relationship pre-reveal is ladynoir, and the flagrant hypocricy on which adrinette is currently built means that the audience has to either have the memory of a goldfish, or to continue lying to themselves in order to believe in it (nevermind all the lies Marinette is currently feeding Adrien, mind that NOTHING has fundamentally changed since they had to dump Luka and Kagami because Secret Identites Must Be Secret)
2. Adrinette is shockingly poorly developed in S5, compared to the way the previous seasons went about all sides of the 'square. We really went from Adrien trying to kill Darker Owl over false ladynoir promises in one episode, to going "ladybug? who that? Marinette is the girl I love now" in the very next one. Ye gods. Could you not have given us at least ONE scene of his heart being torn between them?
Disconnected from that, there is that whole thing where Adrien's entire storyline boils down to being pulled between his father and Ladybug, where his role as Cat Noir is the only way he can fight his father, and how it just seemed OBVIOUS that his finding love with Ladybug would be what would let him stop hoping to get it from his father and thus give him the strength to fight back against Hawkmoth even while knowing that it was his family. Ladynoir was inextricably tied to the thematic core of Adrien's obvious character arc ever since "The Bubbler", but we all know how THAT one ended.
I think Chat Blanc permanently killed LadyNoir and severely damaged the point of MariChat. The creators simply got it into their heads that any love of Adrien's alter ego would bring destruction to the world.
I think the only issue I have with the idea of LadyChat coming before Adrienette is that I LOVED that scene in season 5 (episode 12 I think?) when Ladybug and Chat Noir are talking about themselves finding partners in their personal lives and congratulating each other and talking like friends. That scene was just so wholesome and a welcome change from how things normally go with this series. No creepiness, no jealousy, just some well earned mutual excitement for each other’s happiness. I seriously wish we could’ve had at least a few more scenes like that.
Tbf you could probably still have that if you did it in this order - it would be a sign of growth for both of them, both accepting they can’t be together but still wishing the other happiness even if they wished they could be the one to give it to them still. It would be a good way to show character depth
Yeah I don't get why everyone puts ladynoir in the top of the love square yes it's pretty cute at times but out of all the ships from the love square ladynoir pissed me off the most I just really hate how cat noir is a purfert around ladybug and flirts with other girls just to make her jealous I really hate how people think the flirtling is cute it's not just her love for Adrian that she couldn't realize her feelings for cat noir so easily I think if cat noir was more murture ladybug wouldn't be so harsh with him that's one of my favorite things about season 5
@@virnalassiter382well for me it's that i love battle couples. Adrien and marinette are just so basic
Marinette’s obsession with Adrien was something that definitely should’ve been fixed a long time ago, with no traumatic backstory to justify it. Another thing was Luka and Marinette, their chemistry is amazing that I ended up rooting for them instead of the main ship.
It was to explain it not justify it there is a difference
Me too. I was actually fine with the ships at the end of season 3. Luka didn't deserve that break up in season 4.
@@michalelkin-bronner13 it's hard to agree with you when mari literally said that it isn't her fault that she's this way, nor adrian's. It's chloe's fault! Which the show treats like it obsolves her of all her wrong doings
@user-dk3lg9np6p she was talking about running away from adrien like it's not her fault or adrien,s that she kept on running away on the dates
@@michalelkin-bronner13 “Adrian, it’s not my fault, and it’s not your fault either! It’s all Chloé’s fault!” I beg to differ
I think its also partly because Marinette does treat Adrien like his father did, to the point of even lying to him about his father's abuse.
Adrienette becoming cannon in transmission felt very rushed and like if it was made just for the moving scene in revolution
Yeah I agree
The combination of the Carrot on the stick strategy (that lasted WAY too long), the MULTIPLE "what if?" Episodes, AND the Yandere Mari they don't see as creepy, weird and absolutely TERRIBLE.
It just killed it for me.
And the existence of puppeteer 2, and the show DEFENDING it by saying THAT was the moment Adrien fell for Mari, just makes things SO MUCH worse. And I question the studio's sanity for thinking this.
What made MariChat the supreme ship in my eyes was the fact that Adrien and Marinette both wanted someone to love them without their filters and masks. For Marinette Ladybug was always a mask, a need to be mature and serious and brave. Ladybug was never really allowed to be a teenager as shown in episode Gamer 2.0
Now let's look at Adrien, her other half, her opposite. Adrien had to always be the perfect person, the perfect son, model, student, fencer. Adrien wasn't allowed to have errors, he wasn't allowed to make connections that could look bad towards the public eye. Adrien was used as a puppet by Gabriel, always locked in. To Adrien Chat Noir resembled freedom, ease, time to play around, make friends, connect to people.
It is ironic how they fell in love with the version the other liked least.
MariChat is the corner of the love square where they can be the most free. Now, the two episodes that characterize Mari and Adrien the best are (undoubtedly) Sandboy and Chat Blanc. I will not take criticism on this.
What does Sandboy teach us about Mari? She is afraid of not being enough, not enough to be loved by the boy she crushes on, not enough to fulfill her duty to master Fu, Tikki and all of Paris. Marinette is afraid to fail.
What does Sandboy teach us about Adrien? Adrien is afraid to be locked in, to lose his freedom, to lose what being Chat Noir gives him. And at the same time, he as well is afraid of not being enough, not enough to deserve Ladybug's love, not enough to be worthy of affection. And yes, i say this is why he doesn't hesitate to sacrifice himself for her. He would rather die millions of times than fail the one person he feels safe to love. (Let's explain that last part: Adrien loves his friends, but if push comes to shove he knows his father could take them all away in a heartbeat. So being Chat Noir is his security. And Ladybug is the only friend his father can't take away easily. It's why he always tries to win her love, why he wants to know who she is, why he needs to know she won't leave him)
Now, with it being established who Mari and Adrien are based on Sandboy, how does Chat Blanc come into it all?
Chat Blanc is the prove to Mari that she can love Chat. And that he can love her despite who she is as a civilian. It isn't when Chat calls her his Lady but Marinette when she realizes that this is her partner, her other half who she lost. Chat Blanc is her hardest fight because she never wants to hurt him. And in the end she saves him not by beating him in battle but by talking to him and appealing to his humanity. Chat Blanc was the Akuma that needed her to be Marinette, not Ladybug. It needed the girl behind the mask.
How does this make MariChat better in my eyes than LadyNoir (even though that is a close 2nd to me)?
MariChat is very balanced, Chat needs comfort without feeling trapped, while Mari needs someone to accept her for who she is, all her flaws included. And they can be that for another, they can be safe with another. Because Mari is normality to Chat while Chat is security to Mari.
Tl;Dr: MariChat is best cuz Mari and Chat are the versions with the least pressure on them
Holy shit you spelled this out so well it makes so much sense!!
@@clementine1827 thank you ^^ i dare to think i would be a better MLB writer than the actual writers... not like it's hard
you are absolutely right! This is also why I don't like ladynoir and I don't understand why people idealize them
@@maveafure4810 and once more, the lazy writing ruined the prospect of greatness
Can you believe they threw away all of that just for adrinette, the most boring of the ships, I'm crying
Marichat canon
The fandom got some good Marichat fics honestly
@@amymoon1295 RIGHTTTT??? They give me butterflies ngl. Well, the good ones atleast.
Unpopular opinion? I’ve never been a fan of the love square. It’s what made me scream “JUST TELL EM WHO YOU ARE”
I’m glad it’s done.
They do that earlier the world ends
@@thanatosdriver1938 then make it so the world doesn’t end.I won’t say writing is easy but it’s not rocket science
@@redrasegarden that’s a very simplistic answer but the simple truth is that these were the consequences we established quite early on. We knew from at latest episode 5 that losing any miraculous would be a big hawk moth victory and they had to be extremely careful with info. Them not doing it was well justified in the story
Same except I never screamed that I was more interested in Luca and Kagami they are my most favorite characters in the franchise is self.
@@thanatosdriver1938 only sort of. We know hawkmoth was interested in the miraculous, but not there identity’s. So considering they fight the same bad guy and have the same circle of friends, why couldn’t they tell each other who they were?It’s one thing not to tell your civilian friends and family, but you’re parter? You probably would also work more efficiently as a team if you did know.
The one major thing that miraculous is missing is the themes. Themes usually allows for structural flow of the story. Where I think miraculous could work well with seasonal themes. Like for example season one could be about naïveté. Season two could about the constant hero battles becoming more of a chore and Gabriel becomes more irrational with his thinking. Which allows for some of the side heroes and secondary antagonist two appear. While season three could be about recklessness and the building of stress. Allowing for season four the be a breaking point for mini characters within the show. Meaning season five could of been healing and becoming a better person from you older self.
I'm really disappointed that Marichat was killed off so quickly. I think some of my favorite episodes were when Ladybug was chasing Cat Noir and calling him her kitty. I really enjoyed that dynamic. I think they should have explored that more for the entire season.
Do I think this Adrinette has killed all hype for the show? No, I don't think so but I'm also not running the numbers for viewership after season 5.
What's really driving the show is what they setup from the very beginning, that Ladybug and Cat Noir clearly have feelings for each other and have such a good dynamic that you just want to see them finally reveal and get together. Ladybug has ran away and denied any feelings she's ever had for cat noir even though they're clearly there.
What we can be excited for now is a growth in the relationship between Adrien and Marinette, where there's going to be some turbulence or at least there should be, because of how much ladybug has kept from Adrien. If this isn't a point of issue for them in season 6, I don't even understand what they're trying to do with the show anymore. But, I'm excited to see the growing pains that come and how they finally get to the reveal.
They’re doing this for the money at this point
I really wished they had Marichat be together for at least 2 or 3 episodes until Hawkmoth ruined it.
@@Thehjhhhhhggttyg well they do all the time for the money, but yea, they would try milk the franchise all the way now, because after nearly ten years I can't belive it will still be so popular.
And yea, most healthy from square was MariChat and Ladrien. The producers should try something like "reveal the truth to Adrien about Gabe" but I can't belive they do that, instead of "Lila, the monster of the week" and still try to do more love square. Still they don't know whos under mask.
@@Shimospeher it’s of declining in popularity tho but this is why I am no longer a part of the fandom because it’s way too dragged out.
@@ShimospeherI'm okay with Adrian not finding out his father is hawk month but yeah ladybug should regret hiding things from cat noir especially the cat blac thing damn if Marinette is going to get called out for lying to impress Adrian why not Lila? I couldn't take the lie either I probably would have exposed her lie myself I don't care if the other person disagrees me
Season 5 barely had the flirty ,Marichat/Ladynoir dynamic. I think that was one of the biggest reasons, people liked them together. Now they are kinda boring like Ladrien. They're always loveydovey, or Marinette is depressed, but there is no tention like before.
I think you're the first comment to basically sum up my issues perfectly
Honestly I wished the Marinette obsession was a bit too extreme (and not in a funny way), and like most people I feel like the Love Square plot was dragged out. I also really don't like the thing where Cat Noir got shoved aside in general in Season 4. Honestly CN and LB had a great chemistry and it got dropped for some reason.
Well the whole thing were cat noir was useless around season 4 the reedming quality is it got cat noir to get over ladybug start to act more murture speak for yourselves he's sometimes a piss off to me
I still think about how the writers killed Ladynoir, in the most cold-hearted way possible. You watch episodes from season 1 like Stormy Weather, Dark Cupid or Princess Fragrance and see how much tension there was in the fight because they weren't just fighting a villain, they were looking out for each other too. Watching them fight crime after squashing ladynoir the way they did was just... boring. There wasn't even a friendly affection between the two. They would always 'say' there was, but there's a reason 'show not tell' is important. Not only that, I found the way Chat Noir came to treat Ladybug in later seasons completely out of character for himself, and I found ladybug to be unexpectedly cruel and it left a bitter taste in my mouth for the rest of the show
The problem with the show is they are so focused on the end game that everything else is pushed aside. Adrien and Marinette is the only thing that matters, having other relationships is seen as a crime apparently, and that really kills the romance for me. Luka and Marinette should have dated for a bit, MariChat should have dated for a bit, or even a while. LadyNoir would have been perfect for the second-to-last-ship to sail before Adrienette. Adrienette is End Game, as in it should have been left for the END, in my opinion.
I haven't watched this show, but I have heard of the love square. And while I get the intrigue and the appeal of having 4 different dynamics with the same 2 people, I'm also baffled that there are 4 different ships of THE SAME 2 PEOPLE. And they have SHIPPING WARS over this? They're the SAME 2 PEOPLE, YOU'RE ON THE SAME TEAM
I had lost interest in Miraculous in the 6-month hiatus between Multiplication and Destruction, but seeing the reverse love square drew me right back in, only for me to be super disappointed when they got rid of it immediately.
I fell in love with the first season during the moment when Marinette and Adrien were under the umbrella. That was a cute episode, it made me want to see more progress of Adrien and Marinette's friendship. But the more of the show I watched, the confusing and chaotic the show became for me. There were moments where it looked like that there was finally some progress with their relationship, but nah it always went back to Marinette creepily stalking, doubting, misunderstanding etc. While Adrien remained clueless and kept in the dark. Their relationship felt more distanced than anything. Whether any of that was intentionally written or not, in the end their relationship was poorly written.
Eventually, I stopped watching miraculous because they kept dragging on the ship. There was no progress. It always ended up with Adrien and/ or Marinette being heartbroken and it became a bit repetitive . There were other reasons as to why I stopped watching, but the ship is what really kept me watching the show, I really wanted to see their relationship grow!
That said I have a lot of thoughts and opinions on the show, too much to write down. But, I would have loved to make a fan fic.
I'd make Adrien uptight, and because of his upbringing, he's a diligent worker, but all the pressure makes him long for freedom and he's not socially adept. It's not until he meets Marinette, a carefree, extroverted girl that he becomes envious of. But she lacks the diligence that Adrien has. When they become heroes, Marinette/ Ladybug being the carefree girl she is, recklessly swings around and has no idea how her powers are meant to work. Adrien/ Chatnoir is appalled with the powers he has, he thinks its dangerous and it does not suit him. When he meets Ladybug, he panics at her actions and tries to control her. Overtime they learn about their abilities, and help each other. Chatnoir teaches her responsibility and diligence, while Ladybug teaches him to relax and be free.
I'm thinking of Adrien being the only one to have learned about her Identity, and then chooses to help her out in College, and slowly going from being envious to falling in love. As for the Villain, I'm still thinking about that. I kinda took inspiration from the Anime version with Felix and Bridgette.
marichat and ladynoir were the best ships I cannot BELIEVE they killed them. I'm sticking to fanfiction now it's SO MUCH better
I love how in other fandoms you'll see people arguing about different shipps, meanwhile in the MLB fandom you'll see people arguing over the same shipp but with different Fortnite skins
I love your vision. Honestly, i feel like miraculous should have been a more continuous story rather than just monster of the week from the start. Feel like you could wrap up the entire plot in 4 seasons and give plenty of time to each part of love square. First season could be the buildup to the first relationship. All the shenanigans we know and love and since we're editing, with less stalking. Marinette and group makes all these schemes to confess to Adrien, Chat Noir keeps flirting with ladybug and keeps trying to ask her out..yada yada and we could slowly build up on ladrien. Second season half of it could be ladrien now together but steadily drifting apart coz of all the secrecy, at the exact pt they break up and second half is the aftermath, healing their hearts and gradually drawing towards the other counterpart in the love square. In the last episode they have both fallen again. Third season-entirely marichat until they break up in the finale and break all the fans' hearts and finally fourth scene would be ladynoir. Just those two against the world.
Instead all we got was three seasons of complete stagnancy in both relationships and plot but then they realise they have to finish this by season 5 so everything feels rushed by the end. If they had developed the plot well from the start we could have had a very nice and toit 4 seasons of miraculous and then did a timeskip moving onto the next chapter of their lives.
Honestly, the running theme of this show seems to be wasted potential. The love square COULD'VE went somewhere. Chloe COULD'VE had a great redemption arc. Gabe COULD'VE been an interesting villain. So much wasted potential.
I've always been a Ladrien stand, yes we exist 😂
Adrien learning Ladybug is interested in her and Marinette learning Adrien is interested in Ladybug would effect not just their relationships but also characters themselves the way they see themselves.
For example Adrien might gain self worth for learning Ladybug cares a lot for him even when he isnt a hero. Or may think that Ladybug is another fan of him and likes perfect boys which would effect Ladynoir relationship. Marinette might decide that she can be more confident like her Ladybug alter ego.
It would have many different consequences.
I personally don't need a Ladrien arc.
Someone better make this into a fanfic
Honestly the thing I hated was how long it dragged out. In the earlier seasons we got moments with each ship but only season 5 we got the square by which point everyone got bored of the characters and they rushed the romantic arcs because they realised people no longer cared
I disagree, I dont like the idea of Ladybug and Adrien essentially cheating on Luka like that. Also, that would imply Marinette would not only cheat, but sacrafice Adrien's safety and jeapordize her identity as Ladybug. I think what killed the love square is how long the show dragged them on. Honestly, its so much cooler to see Marinette and Adrien get closer and have them slowly deduce the other is a super hero.
They ruined it the minute they had Adrien fall for Marinette bc of a cringe moment that immediately had him breaking her heart in the car ride after.
None of significant moments Adrinette had bonding in the first 3 seasons apparently did it, despite his immense interest and flirtatious behavior toward Marinette from season feckin ONE.
Nah, the moment she unknowingly violated his personal boundaries is what cinched it for him. Forget the times she was doing cooler shit before, or the time he spent with her and her parents, or hell, even her Multimouse miracle save. Sheesh, with that kind of mentality, Chloe should have been able to claim him from first episode 😂
And then of course, they decided to speedrun all the other obstacle romances and sides of the square, bc it wasn't enough to ruin the endgame pairing--they had to go for the gold.
It would be interesting to see Adrien and Chloe in a better show like Ninjago, Infinity Train or Amphibia.
I think the reason the love square hype died to me is because it didn’t resolve with a reveal
i enjoy the love square, but its way too stretched out. i feel like they could have shorten the whole 5 seasons into 2-3 seasons, and then they could start a new story with lila.
Adrinette becoming canon spelled the death of Ladynoir. The death of Ladynoir spelled the death of any interesting tension or dynamic between the main characters. Akuma Attacks became a bore and suddenly their cringy civilian relationship and Marinette’s retconned trauma became the central focus. Whether people will admit it or not, the show was mainly appealing because of the superhero drama and Ladynoir’s dynamic. Adrientte mainly just provided cringe.
Not only that, Adrinette becoming canon crapped on Season 4’s continuity. Suddenly, Ladybug and Chat Noir forgot the lesson of communicating and holding each other close and just kinda ditched their friendship. No more partnership, I guess. It got so bad that Chat Noir was just written out of the finale.
Marichat is the best ships of the love square not gonna lie😍
Each other these ships deserved some time to shine, you're absolutely right. I am so disappointed that Adrienette sailed before LadyNoir.
It's cute, don't get me wrong, but I thought Adrienette would have happened near the END of the show. Now I just don't care about the reveal bc what's the point anymore?
i never really cared about it but i liked the Love Square in Season 1 too 3
it was funny that Marinette could not talk to Adrien and that he as Chat Noir tried to flirt with Lady Bug
but than it got boring and the random Swap in Season 5 destroyd it for me they should have done that earlier
How I feel about the love squares:
Ladrien: He always had crush on Ladybug not knowing who she really is. Really wished the writers would've went deeper into this square. I really felt like they could've had a deep connection.
Lukanette: I liked it a lot and wished it could've lasted longer. Luka helped Marinette be honest and clear about her feelings for Adrien. If only the writers would have kept it pushing so Marinette could see what a healthy relationship looks like. I'm still pissed at the fact that they had Marinette and Luka break up at the end of the episode Truth.
Adrigami: How I viewed this love square? I felt like Kagami was more invested in this relationship than he was. Because most of the time? Adrien was crushing on Ladybug while being with Kagami. When it came to the end of Season 3, he didn't want to kiss her. And on this one? I felt bad for Kagami even though the relationship was based on lies said my cousin.
Feligami: Really love this ship but it felt forced because after Emotion going to Pretension, they ended up together at the end of the episode. But I have to give them credit for the story of sentimonsters in Representation. Wish we could have seen more of that.
MariChat: I saw that more as a platonic friendship. Going from Glaciator all the way to Elation. They were so cute together.
Adrienette: I don't know what to say about this square? It started off with Marinette and Adrien becoming friends. Then she developed a crush on him stalking Adrien almost everyday. I rooted for them since the very beginning but now? It's gone too far especially with Alya and her friends planning to help Marinette pursue Adrien. Now here we are in Season 5 and both of them are together.
Ladynoir: Ladybug always told Cat Noir she's in love with someone else while Cat Noir constantly was trying to woo her and she'd blow him off every time. But then all of that changed after Determination and Passion.
Unpopular opinion: The fact that people thought after Marinette and Adrien broke up with Luka and Kagami? That Luka and Kagami would get together when really it was never gonna happen.
Same for Lila and Felix when that wasn't gonna happen either.
Or how about the fact that in Derision, Marinette used to have a crush on Kim. Like..... Damn Marinette How many people did you have a crush on before Adrien???? And that was prior to before the show even began.
I think the reason why Lukagami got popular is because of how well they contrast each other
@@milkywaycafe. I believe that too. Luka was the type that was really chill and didn't care what nobody thought about him. He would do anything for his friends.
I never liked the idea to begin with, since I hate forced drama, but your ideas sound way more reasonable than any crap that Tommy and his flying monkeys could have ever pooped out. Zag could do it as good IMO. But yeah, not good buildup for not very good payoff...ugh.
I cant lie if the story turned out how you suggested it would've broken the internet even more than cat blanc did, its a REALLLY great way of using the love square.
But they obviously ruined it the way it is
Tha fact it took them 5 seasons to get those 2 fall in love at each other and get them to date shows how they lazy the writers are.
5 to be honest. They finally start to dating in S5, after also some specials.
It should be funny if not the fact they do that after 8 years.
Agree!! I feel that other media like the manga & Adult graphic novels next year will push it better than Thomas writing
@@Shimospeher I edited my comment so thank you for pointing it out.
My issue is just god the pacing of this show went from 3/100 to 15/100 and everything is suddenly out of sorts. We needed more time to breath now as opposed to the earlier seasons
adrien and luka deserve someone better than marinette ong
They should date each other😍
Adrien x Luka for the one
Ditch those creepy girls and just bang
@@KochifnafI don't see why not...
Luka x Adrien ❤️❤️❤️
FR
the love square died when Luka was introduced as a love interest. Obviously better match, better human, better ship, and they broke them up after not even a full episode of having them together. They could've done that so much better, and not yeet Luka out of the picture for absolutely no reason. Yes, I have been shipping Lukanette since it was introduced, and I was kicked off many platforms by angry preteens because of the fact. Justice for Luka, justice for Lukanette.
(also justice for Ladynoir, because the movie nailed that on the head fr)
i will never forgive them for what they did to ladynoir…it’s the most unique side of the love square for me like who wouldn’t want to see superheroes in love/teasing each other?? instead they settled for the normal high school students romance…BORING. and the fact that their attempt at reverse ladynoir (ladybug chases after chat noir) was done so poorly is an absolute crime. not only was it for less than a few episodes, but you mean to tell me that chat noir isn’t even ACKNOWLEDGING ladybug’s sudden advances and just brushes it off after pinning after her relentlessly before?? it makes him even more of a smooth brain and kind of unnatural...would’ve at least expected him to be a little flustered and shocked meanwhile he’s just like “wow my miraculous is really making you act differently” in that one episode 😐
The love square was probably the greatest asset the authors had in their hands to develop the characters, their relationships AND advance the plot, too.
And they wasted it all...
This entire show is wasted potential.
I’ve had the same ideas.The only thing I would “change”/ add to your plan is that after ladybug and cat noir date we would have marinate and Adrian date this in my opinion would be the most “relaxed” ship and then they we get the the superhero identity reveal.
I like your version so much better Smarty. Agreed Adrinette shouldn’t have been a thing till the very end after ID reveal. It’s the fakest one. People get fake crushes on celebrities all the time. Also she acts like a typical stalker and he is revealed to “like” it? He liked the statue scene? Cringe writing. Also lmao at the dodos! 😂
The love square was one of reason why Miracolous was so popular and the first why I start to love the show. Yea Agreste Arc was interesting (not want to say how that end) and I usually not like romances in most media, but the fact that two people have four ship possibility was refreshing, not to mention other potential love interest. At end of S3 I think that Lukanette and Adrigami was even more better and Luka & Kagami were better suit for main characters. Better chemistry, Kagami gave Adrien determinity he need and Luka was more serious than Adi.
Anyway as said before the Agreste arc and lovesquare should finish sooner, max at S4. In S5 it feel rushed to me and silenced more by whole Monarch thing. I would do something like this - in S4 made a whole love square, but hit back heroes. Like Marinette finally give up Adrien (only a friend) and similar Chat on Ladybug (she love another). Then something like Marichat, and Adrien try to strike Marinette (but she's not interest) and Ladybug to Chat (similar like before) and mix chemistry in Ladrien. Then at the end suprise suprise reveal.
And yea, after love square resolve and Agreste arc I think show start to fall on popularity, even if you have now manga, movie etc. It's understable that you had everything now when have a culmination of 8 years story, but let's be honest. In S6 it will back to monster of the week, like in S1 (to me it was nothing special, in S2 the show start to have balls) and I even see the producers still try to milk out the love drama (like heroes still not know who is who). It's funny to me that movie made thing better than whole ten year show.
I love every ship in the love square including Ladrien/Adribug equally very much. (even when it annoys me at times.. Never been a fan of slow burns and this was certainly the slowest of burns -_-)
What I personally would have enjoyed seeing was each ship of that love square being explored (after season 1) with the good and the bad for each ship ending with Adrienette being together in the start of season 5 or ending with Ladynoir finally revealing their identities and being together completely in every corner of that love square by the end of season 5 (After Monarch is gone and they have a bit of respite to do so) I'm no writer by any means so I don't even know if that'd make sense or if it'd even work but that's what I wish could have happened in the show..
I know I'm in the minority, but I would have loved for there to be one "SnekMouse" episode with the return of Aspik amd Multimouse just so there could be more secret identity shenanigans. I think such an episode would have been a great way of addressing the romantic dynamics especially since both parties have to pretend not to know who the other is.
also, its called “tales of ladybug and cat noir” not “tales of marinette and adrien”
in season 5 they focused more on character development then the actual battles, which is unfortunate because the battles are the whole shows purpose AND name
Marichat is 100% my favourite because it honestly reminds me of how me and my boyfriend act at times, like it's cute and also realistic, I love them together because it's the only ship that feels real
At this point I kind of hope Marinette and ADREIN could break up and we could get ladynoir until they eventually reveal their identities and we can get a little bit from every corner of the square
The last we need is them back to square one only to back to square 100. To break up only to came again after damn 8 years.
@@Shimospeher maybe I’m reaching just so I can see ladynoir on screen
Honestly yeah, each of the pairs for the love square needed better balancing (And better writing in general, but I think we all already agree on that). Marichat and Ladrien get shafted or are practically non-existant in the show while LadyChat and Adrienette flounder for multiple seasons, plus throwing a wrench in with Kagami and Luka just to complicate/distract things further.
Personally, I agree with others that Marichat should've been the starting point for their characters getting together. Not there from the beginning of course but developing a season or two in. Cause like people have said, they feel the most free and genuine as those personas. Adrien escapes from his restrictive life and Marinette doesn't have such heavy responsibilities/isn't as serious.
With that in mind, Ladychat and Adrienette just needed to slowly be dialed back till they were only friends. Ladychat already has a great dynamic between the two, they'd just have Chat stop constantly confessing his love to Ladybug, keep it to playful banter. And with Adrienette I will say the show does somewhat decently develop them to casually hang out more (though often in a group setting) over time, it could just progressively have Marinette stop being flustered and falling over herself (And stop her from being a stalker, obsessive, and downright creepy at times about him).
As for Ladrien, honestly I think a Mary Jane/Spider-Man or Lois Lane/Superman situation would fit best. Like Adrian would constantly be framed in the "damsel in distress" role with Ladybug swooping in to save him. Though this works best in my head if Gabe was written as a better father, cause he'd want his son out of harms way (not use him as a pawn/tool). So he'd either let Ladybug save him or she'd rescue him if the villain was trying to get him away from the action. This idea for the ship would also kinda need Chatnoir's love confessions to be out of the public eye since they'd need to anchor in on Ladrien rather than LadyChat like the show naturally is.
I actually really liked lukanette more than ladrien and adrienette. But yeah the love square wrapping up the way it did was so unsatisfying I’m like 90% sure Austruc read a lot of fanfic read a couple videos essays on infinity war and wanted to “subvert expectations” with the Ladybug Finale.
Yeah Marichat was the best ship and the way they ended it was just lame. I also was thinking that Ladynoir would become canon first, and then they would do it like the spiderman meme, because the way S4 ended, with Chat Noir holding his hand out to Ladybug, letting her know that he would always be by her side, and her blushing, made it seem like it was finally going to happen...and then how it didn't was frustrating. It was extra frustrating how everyone tried to tell her that her love for him was misdirected...
I agree! You are right smarty pants
Honestly I've been a big Lukanette shipper for a long time, but that's mostly bc canon's "Adrian can do no wrong" attitude even when he is doing things very wrong killed any desire I had for Marinette to end up with them. I don't know, it started to feel like she was a much healthier version of herself with Luka. But I would have been okay with your version of events, esp if it came with less unnecessary cringe from Marinette or sexual harassment from Adrien
I literally only started watching the show because the love square sounded interesting
Well, we all know why.... Marinette wanted Adrien, not Cat, so Adrien either could be with Ladybbug (failiure, won't work) or Marinette ....
I was kinda out of the love square since it kept going on. I’m not a fan of “will they won’t they?” In a way that just feels- I dunno? Dragged out? Mean? It’s just- not fun and not well written. They could’ve focused on making the story better and not just a love square. The lore was there- it just fell short
I seem to be in the minority of viewers who think that the love square is the least interesting part of the show
I love your channel and your theories. Your criticism is fair, unlike some channels that just hate the show and ngl. If MLB ever comes to the public domain, then I will try to make one like this if I have the time and money because I would love to make one that captures the main essence of MLB but is better.
Oh boy, this plotline dragged out way too long. I wish it would’ve happened in like two or three seasons, instead of five.
I'm pretty sure Lyla/Lily/Crease will cause trouble between the two lovebirds causing Marinette to break up with Adrien for a while til it gets straightened out, Adrien will probably persue her as Cat Noir because he can't live without her in his life, and at some point Lyla will end up revealing their identities
I'm happy with Adrien falling out of love with Ladybug and In Love with Marinette and not because she is Ladybug, it shows he truly loves Marinette for who she is not because she is Ladybug
When they reveal identities the love square will happen and André Glossier will be confused and angry again thinking they are cheating on each other
Mannnnnn i wished they had given Ladrien a tiny arc 😞 i know ppl dont like that ship but i think its kinda cute how awkward they are together. I think if they had a storyline it would be kinda toxic obviously since they’re obsessed with each other but idk i think it would be a good plot line. I think they would end up breaking up because their personal lives would get in the way either that or because theyre just too clingy with eachother loll but like bruh imagine magazines with Ladybug and Adrien 😭 the paparazzi would go insane 💀
I think it it should have ended faster, no extra love interests, less stalking and being pushy and then going the marychat route.
So that they get to know and like their most authentic versions.
Whilst the ending of ladynoir was shit and they even failed marichat but on the plus side my favourite ship (adrienette) was the one that standed out of all of the other ships
Yeah you brought up some really good points. Honestly just happy they actually did something with the romance. They did have time liking both versions of each other. I agree your approach using all 4 ships would have been so much more entertaining and well written. The show would have actually been great. Well what can I expect. I think they did good at least in comparison to earlier seasons. But could have done so so much more with it.
Ah, the many permutations of a single romantic pairing. It was quite the novel concept... One that I felt was handcrafted to torture me, for my hatred of romantic B plots. 😂😅
André was fine at first but after they started using him keep the hype for the love square going he got annoying
Before Adrigami and Lukanette appeared in season 2 I did crave Maricat in this stupid love square. Yes, it was the most healthy side where things could grow naturally with no forced feelings or situations thrown in.
Anyway, Smarty Pants your Miraculous videos always hace passion even if it's RIGHTFULLY hated in bits too.
Please NOTHING in this series is good let alone close to trying to be perfect.
Everything of this series should have truly and completely ended in season 3 Finale. Leaving the forever illusion of Adrigami/Lukanette at the river side.
But whatever, I saw the end of season 5. Things were again rushed, tossed and smacked down to make Kagami's Adrien and Luka's Marinette together.
Sorry rant off topic to a degree, Stupid Love Square, plain and simple. I'd prefer a reverse since season 1. Ladybrat hungry for Cattastic Kitty as Adrien crushes on Mari.
Everyone have a blessed Saturday October 14, 2023 at 9:17AM. 🌸🔥🌸🔥
💀 tf is this comment?
Future writers are probably going to use this show as an example of what not to do.
@@JuniorGustabo
Indeed. We can only hope.
Everyone have a blessed Thursday October 26, 2023 at 4:49AM. 🌸🔥🌸🔥🌸
The sailing of Adrienette was always going to be the end of the Love Square, and I do feel like that had to happen in Season 5 for the culmination of the Gabriel arc. Especially with what's most likely coming down the pike. This ship is NOT gonna have smooth sailing for very long. Marinette is keeping a massive secret from Adrien, and who knows what will happen the moment he finds out.
I hated the execution but I'm so glad they put some of us to rest. I know a lot of us were sticking it through all the pain just to see a conclusion to this love square and I think they gave us a good stopping point in season 5 and I'm happy for that.
Nice .. very nice concept.. but can you do vid on how they can save it now
To me I wish Marinette would just confess to Adrien instead of being a stalker ever since season 2 Marinette was acting like a jerk to max about not playing video games with him in the episode gamer 2.0 and season 3 Marinette told Adrien there just not right for eachother in the episode catblanc since master fu had said those two are made for eachother in season 1 origin story stone heart and in season 4 glaciator 2 ladybug was mad at catnoir about the couple of the year and made catnoir's heart broken 😢 and in season 5 determination passion elation transmission Marinette didn't love Adrien and she wanted Luka back so they could be together again 😢
YEEEEESSSSS FIRST, at last,. I agree, In turn of making Adrinette happened early, I just couldnt stand it, it just started getting annoying
2nd
Yeah
Hm, fair and valid points and opinions, your take were pretty interesting too.
Honestly, at this point, i wonder how a Reboot/Remake would go, actually would a Reboot/Remake even be worth making?
Also, what is the difference between a Reboot and Remake anyway?
Honestly, I used to ship Adrien and Marinette when i first started watching the show, but as time went on and the show continued to write them horribly it made me see them both in different lights, it was also just super cringey to the point where I had to take breaks while watching an episode. The marichat was cute and interesting but it felt to rushed and overlooked, kinda just thrown in there last minute so the writers could say they did it. Adrien and ladybug, it was alright I get why they have moments in there and it does help to complete the love square and set up any relevant future points such as Adrien seeing marinette act like ladybug and then falling for her, and it does feel real as if it were two teenagers. Adrien and Marinette its just plain creepy and weird the way it’s written and I wish they would have taken more time to write her better. The alternative ships are fun when they’re just thrown into the mix not them actually dating or anything but just some fun little scenes would have been nice rather then just one episode of them dating then breaking up. All in all I just think that this show could have been written and paced better then it is and more time developing the relationships of the main ships or the end game ship
What also kills the love sqare for me is that I feel like Marinette really only likes Adrians fake front.
Like: Kuro neko 👀
I mean you nailed why Marichat was the most popular- it wasn't "for some reason", it was because they could just be themselves. It was also the only times we really see them as themselves, period, and also not being sad or stressed.
The problem is that Marichat should have been used as a key point in the love square for that reason. It's a fantastic transition point. Marichat would fix a lot of the problems they have as a superhero team, where Ladybug is often incredibly heartless towards Cat Noir, and where he frequently crosses her boundaries. I would not have her start to fall in love with Cat Noir, but I would have him start to fall in love with Marinette. I would have her start to be attracted to him, though. This would make her basically forget to be weird around Adrien in any capacity because she's so focused on keeping her feelings for Cat Noir in check. She's seen how being in love with her has gotten him hurt countless times. She's kinder to Cat Noir but still a little distant as she tries to not fall for him.
I would have maybe kept the Adrigami and Lukanette stuff, but either I'd make it obvious both them are only doing it because they're forced to by their friends in Marinette and Luka's case or by parents in the case of Adrien and Kagami. Adrien and Kagami are forced together first, after which Marinette's friends force her to go out with Luka since they get along well and he's very nice and such and she needs to get over Adrien if he's got a girlfriend.
There would have some romantic tension build *after* they're forced together, but Kagami and Adrien are just really not clicking until Felix switches in to take Kagami on a date because Adrien really, really doesn't want to go (then an akuma attack happens anyway). I like the idea of her figuring it out very quickly but keeping silent, at least until the end of the first date where she just very cuttingly is like "I knew you weren't Adrien the whole time" and expresses that she actually had a better time with Felix than with Adrien, so they can keep their little secret. Cuz honestly? I don't see her not figuring out she wasn't on a date with Adrien, and I don't see her staying silent about it after the first date.
Luka and Marinette start out with him being more in to her than she is in to him, but he also understands he's kind of the rebound guy. He finds out her identity very early on while they're dating, and while never admits to it, says he understands when she has to bail on him. She eventually does start to reciprocate, but the guilt of having to bail on him all the time starts to eat at her, along with seeing him get hurt by so many akumas because he, for some reason, keeps showing up at the akuma attacks. She assumes it's because she gave him the Snake Miraculous even though this is something he only recently began doing, since she'd have no way of knowing the real reason is because he now knows his girlfriend is the one fighting. He clarifies things when she, after a fight where he got hurt, she tries to tell him she can't call on him ever again: "That's not why I'm here, Ladybug. I'm here because someone I love seems to always be in danger, and I want to be here in case she needs me" and she's confused as to who he means but he doesn't elaborate, so she assumes he just means Juleka. Luka also clocks that there's some chemistry between Cat Noir and Ladybug, but doesn't let it bother him.
I think there should have been an episode where Monarch uses a sentimonster of Luka to try and akumatise Marinette, since he seemed pretty aware she was unique and would make a very powerful akuma. Even though he has no idea she's Ladybug, it does put things into perspective for her that not only is she incredibly vulnerable around Luka (indeed, her most vulnerable; she almost outs herself to him on her own before she ever tells Alya), but he can be used against her if he ever did find out. He almost got her, but the real Luka came in and interrupted the situation since Gabe is still at his core a smoothbrain who forgot to make sure Luka was out of the picture. Luka himself gets akumatised instead to protect her, and *that* is when we get the akuma Truth, since he wouldn't have needed to become it earlier since he found out very early in their relationship. But he has a tiny bit of control so he never outs her identity, and in this episode is when he finds out about Adrien's identity. Luka realises the danger he puts Marinette in and the fact she is also very much aware of the danger he is in because of her, and takes the initiative to break things off with her. They're both devastated, but both feel it's what needs to be done. Luka also drops a slight hint to her about Cat Noir and Adrien, but it sails over her head bc it'd be incredibly vague.
In the background, Marichat has been going places, and Cat Noir has actively expressed interest in Marinette. He can't do anything as Adrien because he's with Kagami (unaware that she knows she's actually dating Felix), but he's there for her after her breakup with Luka. Him checking in on her after this, every night, is what starts to tip her into giving into her feelings for Cat Noir that have been bubbling below the surface. He takes her out, treats her incredibly well (just like Luka) but they really, truly *get* each other and can relax around each other because they know each other so well. There's a tonne of romantic attraction that builds and builds, but because as Adrien he has that tie to Kagami, even if he's not interested, he never acts on. But it's clear he's fallen in love with Marinette. She keeps trying to build the wall around her heart to protect her from falling in love with him, but it doesn't work. Eventually Adrien finds out Kagami knew all along she was actually dating Felix, and she tells him he's free to pursue whoever he wants to, as he has no obligations to her. They'll figure out how to tell their parents later. We spend some time with Marichat as a couple, but they both know it won't last because he's a superhero who can't reveal his identity to her, and she's just a civilian to him. Both of them acknowledge that, but also both of them know they can make it happen with their other identity.
The problem with Adrinette isn't the ship itself, it's the fact it wasn't utilised right imo. I think Adrinette is a step that has to be taken to get to Ladynoir. Each permutation of the square should have been a step to get to another one (except for Ladrien). Marichat should have been used to lead into Adrinette, which should have led into Ladynoir.
Because Marichat can't last, I think Adrinette should have come from its ashes as Adrien takes the step to pursue Marinette in his civilian life now that he's been freed of his obligations to Kagami. He's already started to act the same around her as both Adrien and Cat Noir, because he knows she's a safe person to do that around. Marinette notices the similarities and sometimes forgets which one she's talking to and has to play it off, but because she does this, Adrien starts to catch on and notices simiarities between Ladybug and Marinette. Both of them sometimes forget which one they're talking to, because talking to Adrien/Cat Noir and Marinette/Ladybug feels exactly the same to them. Adrien is the first to start to actually wonder if Marinette and Ladybug are the same person, which causes a domino effect of him really noticing the similarities. It takes Marinette longer to catch on because she just doesn't want to catch on. But she does notice and does start to wonder, and then remembers what Luka told her when they broke up, and is hit with not just the realisation that Adrien IS Cat Noir, but Luka knows. She also realises this means Luka knows she's Ladybug. This just leaves Adrien to not know for certain, until Luka also drops a hint to him before he leaves for not just his protection, but for Adrien and Marinette's. Luka thinks its best they do know, but that they also need to figure it out for themselves and sort it out for themselves. Luka is a character who believes truth and honesty are the best policies; he has a whole episode about it in the canon show. He also understands theres a time and a place for honesty, and thinks Adrien and Marinette will get there with a little help. So he gives them both the very vague tool they need to get there. And I think he should be portrayed as 100% correct- they do work better as a team knowing the other's identity, and they are still extremely careful with their identities. Cuz the problem in the reveal episodes is never that they found out, it's always been that they get careless.
I've never really... liked the idea of them seeing each other transform/detransform to find out the identities and it being a huge shock. I want them to figure it out, with Marinette wanting to reject it because it scares her as much as it makes her happy, and with Adrien being the other way around, and have it confirmed to them by either seeing the other transform/detransform, or they agree it's finally time. much more dramatic that way I think.
I don’t even think this version of yours is milking it, I think it’s just putting it to good narrative use rather than shoving new characters for romances no one really wanted. It gives them personality fs
To me what killed the Love Square was just that they didnt actually use the love square until damn SEASON 5. People say it dragged out but I feel the writters didn't even tackle it until recently. Since season 1 people been talking about how Marichat is the best one, not just because they dont revert to awkwardness, but because that allows Marinette to like the ''real'' version of Adrien (not his complete self, but way more of himself then his normal day-to-day persona), and not an image of him. She only talks about that on damn SEASON 5, noticing that ''ive liked him for so long but don't even know him''. And the appeal of LadyNoir was also about how she could be more open about her superhero life with him, and how he could help being her emotional anchor with so much on her shoulders (again, tackled ONLY on season 5).
The love square had so much potential, not only because of the basic permutations, but because how they could change as the characters developed (as how LadyNoir from season 1 wouldn't be nearly the same as a season 5 LadyNoir, or how Adriennete from the end of the series is way more healthy then from the beginning even when they don't know each other's identities yet, just on how they changed views on one another). I feel them rerouting to Kagami and Luka could also have been used as a way to change the love square more naturally, like how Marinette would like Luka's maturity and counsels, but wouldn't be able to share the same with him as she could with Chat, while Adrien could begin to really like Kagami, but don't feel she could give the same encouragement to face his fears like Marinette helped him.
The love square did a painful death because they barely had any relationship development for 4 seasons and packed it all into season 5
You're vision is a million times better than the show. It would make it actually enjoyable, for me at least.
I Hate This show. Thomas could had have a good show but failed miserablly i mean the fact that a terrorist is redeemable but a thirteen yearold is a spawn of satan thomas is terrible writer and I hope he learns his lesson
😅 no I totally agree with you they didn't take full advantage of it which is kind of sad because this is the only show the only movie or anything that I know of that can do a love square and successfully if written right honestly I wish they took more advantage of it they could have done so much it could have made the story better and honestly I would have loved more of a marichat cuz honestly it's the perfect relationship because they're falling in love with both of the sides of themselves that isn't perfect 😊 so no I totally agree
It should have been a 3 season thing, first season is the standard love square, the second is a reversal and the third is reveal
Or if five seasons are needed, Season 1 Adriannette, Season 2 LadyNoir, Season 3 Ladrien, Season 4 MariChat, and Season 5 Reveal
@@ZeanG_ what if there's only 2 seasons each representing a single year?
TBH I was more of a adrigami and lukanete
How it should have been? Two words. The film
I love the way he talked about Ladrian🤣
I keep thinking of writing a lovesquare like this (different story and stuff) but in a way I would have done the love square and the reveals.
In my opinion i think when luka and Marinette and Kagami and Adriana break up (they could do it longer not just in 2 episodes but whatever) then cat noir getting back to lady bug and Marinette starting to like chat noir but it will take like sezon 4 she is starting to like him and sezon 5 she definitely like him and in real life Adrinette, they have some romantic moments too but most of all lady noir. And the fact that they just forget about the dream in the darkes owl makes me a little bit mad... 😕
I think they can try something even on 6th season... some drama about the secrets they need to hide from the other, they can break up for a bit or something... idk I just want some ladynoir since Marichat is dead already...
Still #MarichatForever
Miraculous Luybug is one of my favorite TV shows but us fans waited 5 seasons and 100 episodes for Marinette and Adrian to have a relationship
I'm still coping that Ladynoir will happen in season 6 or 7
i personally was angry at the season 5 finale
Because marinette has Adrien all to herself now!!! And marinette stalked Adrien in season 1 and 2 and 3 and stopped in season 4 and came back to do it again!!! I'm a adrienette hater 100%
i love juleka and rose together they are so cute and Luka and Adrien too 🥰❤
I love Lukaadrien😍
Lukadrien and Julerose are adorable. 🥰👌🏻✨
Cloie was a bully to marrintee and traumatized her
So i guess my question is: will there even be a reveal? I mean we've been waiting for literal years but now that endgame is canon, will they even have a need to reveal their identities anymore?
+ about the rewrite : can you imagine being in love with someone with 1 identity and totally ignore that with your other identity ?
Would be hard ☠