Use this link to get the same battery shown in the video: goldenmateenergy.com/products/goldenmate-12-8v-100ah-1280wh-lifepo-battery?sca_ref=6565734.p6XwCOB7Rs or from amazon here: amzn.to/46cZ0iP
Glad to see the normal users starting to understand lead is dead. Dakota Lithium (*disclaimer I am a dealer) makes the DL+ line of Lithium Starting battery. I use them on my boat and my customers boat builds. Great battery. Here’s the important part - if you only use something 3 times a year and don’t care about weight/performance/capacity then you can just go buy the crap Walmart battery and swap it out over 2 or 3 years. BUT if you actually use the vehicle / item you will want to use LiFEPO4. A good LiFePo4 will have a 10+ year life. The cost per year is much lower. More so, the cost per kWh will be much lower over the life.
Your lights are drawing 1700 watts from the battery, but they're not actually drawing that much. That particular inverter is only 87% efficient, so for every 100 watts you're pulling from the battery, 13 watts is being used by the inverter and 87 watts is being delivered to the load. 1500 watts of load on the inverter at 87% efficiency is right at 1695 watts from the battery.
My dad purchased a used F100 in 1969. Put an Exide brand battery in it. The same battery was still going strong in 1991 when he sold the truck. Someone show me a modern manufacture automobile battery that last for 22 yrs! You expect your new tech Lipo to have a good lifespan?
A simple $30 dollar battery maintainer would be the cheapest way to go. Some models even have a built-in desulfurnator. I have a 1957 Ford Fairlane I restored in 2001. Still has the SAME battery I installed at the time. It's not my daily driver so it sets undriven for sometime. I have a Battery Tender on it to keep the battery healthy. Of course I check the tires and other rubber components regularly, too. (ATP AT-205 to treat the rubber.) The car never fails to start and runs better than the day she left the factory. Maintain don't replace.
That PowerQueen battery also has a BMS, almost all of them do these days. The battery in this video is not a starting battery, while it will start some engines, the battery is not designed for this. Starting battery are very different that holding batteries. A starting battery is designed to provide very high cranking amps for a very short period of time. They are not meant for constant discharging. Your alternator provides the actual power used by the vehicle. A holding battery is designed to run items over a longer period of time, such as a trolling motor or run a refrigerator. When you use a holding battery as a starter battery, you will significantly shorten its lifespan. Now, this may be worth the tradeoff, but people need to be aware of that. There are LIPO4 starter batteries, but they are still exceedingly expensive. Also, while the BMS screen is nice to have, it is almost always the point of failure. The battery will still work, but the screen will go out. Again, with the huge drop in price, these are becoming more replaceable, but people need to be aware.
They are not expensive anymore. Dakota Lithium makes their DL+ starting battery line-up and it is very much financially viable for any vehicle you frequently use.
Great video love to put one of these in my 64 Galaxie. Dam brock, you are looking amazing was watching a older video yesterday and dam man you looking good look like a different person 👌
Thank you Brock very good information.!! It looks like super capacitors are going to be the future at that point these batteries you show here will be the starters. Generator motors with supercaps. We should be able to charge everything we use on the drive to and from a 9-5 job already. !!! Let’s not talk about work vans and semi’s. Just an example is the Tesla power wall it uses 6 very small high output capacitors to power an average home. !!
Battery technology has come a long way. My dad had a '54 Chevy pickup, the battery was under the floorboard in the cab. You had to turn the key on and mash a pedal in the floor to engage the starter.
Cost is down and they are worth it, BUT...they can NOT, I repeat, NOT be charged below 32F temp. Some models have a little heater, and the BMS (controller) can help stop charging when temps are too low. The battery will be destroyed if charged below freezing. The cold temps wont damage it unless it is charging. But be careful. Other than that Lifepo4 is amazing.
Good quality batteries are now self heating. Not the junk budget ones; but the real lifepo4 batteries have self heating. You can also retrofit older once with heaters that go on externally.
Every place I checked said that lifepo4 can't be used as a starter battery. One of the issues is that they can be damaged when charging in below freezing and colder conditions. The other is they aren't designed for short bursts of 400 amps, more for long slow discharges.
When the company reached out, I said ask them if this battery would work for these specific uses. They emailed me back and said yes it would work fine for an old tractor, an antique car, or a sawmill. I’m going off with the company told me. as shown in the video, my friend Lucas has been running one on his four wheeler for quite some time
I searched a few months ago for a 52 AC and got the opposite answer. I think one day they might be ready, but all the research I did indicated they aren't ready for prime time. But I'll be happy if they are. After looking at the specific battery, it also seems to show a max recommended current rating of 125 amps (oops 107 not 125) (1280watts). This indicates intended use as a slowish discharge over a long time period. A starter battery is typically rated at 600-1000 amps. The description likewise seems to indicate that it is best suitable for running appliances, lights, etc. It doesn't mention anywhere about engine starting applications which generally require at least 300 amps (minimum) for a typical tractor engine (a real tractor not a lawn and garden tractor). It would likely be fine for a lawn and garden tractor (motorcycle, etc.), even for starting. Another issue is that they typically require special charging control and may be damaged by typical LA charging circuits (alt/gen) or at least longevity lessened.
Ya they are not meant for a starter use. Discharge rate isn't relevant, use in low temp is. These will never cold start an engine in freezing temps. There are self heating ones but not efficient.
Good morning Brock. I usually don't comment on things that I don't know anything about but that's not why I'm here today. It was great seeing "Frankentractor" again. I always wondered what happened to it. What ever happened to the backhoe? Just curious. God bless and have a wonderful day. 👍👍🙂
It is a test we really aren't making any claims and what we are doing is very vehicle specific we are now two weeks in and it starts every time and charges with no problems waiting to see how it does long term.
The self discharge rate of lead acid batteries are about 8% per month for flooded and about 4% per month for AGM compared to about 1% for LiFePO4 cells (not counting the discharge of some BMS's during balancing operations) so they are better at holding a charge in that respect but the real difference is that lithium batteries don't sulfate to death as they begin to discharge.
An inexpensive desulfurnator will solve that problem. I have a 14-year old riding mower with its original battery. During the off-season, I use a Battery Tender with desulfurnator attached when the mower is in storage. I run a full check on the battery with an analyzer and it still checks well within specs.
@@research903 I do the same on all of my outdoor power equipment. I just replaced my lawn mower battery at the end of the season last year. The previous battery lasted 12 years before it finally had a cell failure and would no longer start the unit reliably. So proper use and maintenance definitely saves on lead acid batteries.
Problem with LFP for outdoor usage right now is that if you charge it below freezing it's immediately damaged. You wont notice immediately because it affects how much power jt stores, but not how much momentary output it has. So you eont notice unless you are not starting right up. In that case a damaged battery might help you start for half as long as an undamaged battery. If your battery is heated or you store them in the winter then I'm all about them. I have one out at my pond with a solar panel running an aeration pump. But i switch to lead acid during the cold months. Next winter I'm gonna try wrapping it with a heating pad.
Yeah, if you buy an all in one sort of battery like this, need to make sure its BMS has low temp cutoff at a minimum. But an integrated heater is even better.
Lithium battery prices are dropping and lead acid battery prices are increasing. I can now buy a 12 volt lithium battery for my solar boat dock system for less than the price I paid for two deep cycle golf cart batteries two years ago. Those same lead acid batteries are now even more expensive. Switching to Lithium and a new charge controller when I need new batteries in my dock system. Lead acid batteries are going the way of coal. No one should be putting lead acid batteries in electric golf carts anymore. That’s for sure.
They should be charged using a lifepo4 specific charger. A regular charger wont dmage it per se, but you will shorten its life by not using a modern lifepo4 setting on your charger.
A “regular” charger will not shorten a LiFEPO4 batteries life. A lead acid/AGM style charger will merely charge the battery to 80-90%. I work directly with a Lifepo4 manufacture and their head of engineering has said it directly.
There is atleast one company that i saw that makes them specifically for modern cars i get so tired of replacing batteries that aren't even very old just because it has set to long
@@RobertJLessard that is one of the reasons that they’re not recommended for modern cars, but my regular Walmart battery charger charges it to 100% The newer versions of these batteries have improved on charging systems
@@RockhillfarmYTyes and no. A modern alternator puts out up to 15volts. Usually 14.7. They work just fine for charging. The problem is that the LIfEPO4 has such low impedance to charging (low resistance) that if you aren’t careful you can burn up your alternator. Here’s why, you alternator is roughly 50% efficient. Meaning about 50% of the energy created is in the form of heat. When you have a LIfEPO4 battery that can take say 100amps charging load (1470 watts). Your alternator has to make 1470Watts of power plus 1470watts of heat. The issue lies at low RPM this is too much heat/load on the alternator. This is why you need to use something like a DL+ 60 (Dakota lithium) that is made for starting. The BMS on that does not let you kill your alternator. The alternative is using a DC-DC charger to limit the power drain if you are using an older technology LIFEpO4
I'm from the future and I have questions . 🤔 Just kidding ... I am actually curious how these work out in vehicles exposed to higher extremes in heat and cold
Lifepo4 doesn’t care about heat. They will function just fine at any temperature you can survive in. As for cold, discharging in cold (freezing or below) is fine HOWEVER charging below ~34 degrees (can vary) is a problem. The solution is self heating batteries. The good battery manufacturers are including a self heating function that brings the battery’s internal temperature up to above freezing. This allows charging at cold temps. I use the big battery husky 2 (5kWh) battery for most of my bulk system builds because it is a) self heating b) waterproof c) stackable (in multiple configurations) d) great price per kw
The amazon site says it is not a starting battery GOLDENMATE Lithium Iron Batteries are suitable for trolling motors, solar, RV, station wagons, bass boats, off-grid applications, household appliances, marine, caravan, medical equipment, electric scooters, industrial, hunting, lawn, and gardening tools, etc. Note: The battery 12v 100ah bluetooth not a starting battery. My understanding is you can fry an alternator in a modern car because of the low resistance of the battery it will over work the alternator. Need more knowledge before making some of these recommendations.
@@ke6bnl Sounds like constant load type applications. I wonder what they mean by station wagons. My last several station wagons were Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagons, which is just a typical car.
The alternator in a modern car is going to have voltage regulation but it will only put out it's rated current so it shouldn't be a problem even with the lower internal resistance because these batteries will never go below 10 or above 14.6-14.8V as the BMS will kick out in both of these scenarios. What you don't want is the battery to reach full charge with the alternator being at a higher voltage than the full charge cutoff of the BMS since the BMS will disconnect the battery and some modern vehicles along with older vehicles rely on the load of the battery to help keep the voltage in the safe range during operation since the charging systems can sometimes spike up to a high enough voltage to cause damage in some vehicles or they can start a dangerous oscillation up and down in voltage if there is not enough capacitance in the system to smooth it out.
Yeah, I mentioned not recommending them for a modern car but I asked the manufacturer about the specific applications we showed in the video. Old tractor, sawmill, four wheeler, antique truck. They said these were a good choice for those applications
@@RockhillfarmYTYes, as I understand it, smart alternators is where these could go wrong. I have an AGM battery in my 2012 SUV but had to do a slight modification to make sure it will charge fully for the same reason.
Use this link to get the same battery shown in the video:
goldenmateenergy.com/products/goldenmate-12-8v-100ah-1280wh-lifepo-battery?sca_ref=6565734.p6XwCOB7Rs
or from amazon here: amzn.to/46cZ0iP
Glad to see the normal users starting to understand lead is dead. Dakota Lithium (*disclaimer I am a dealer) makes the DL+ line of Lithium Starting battery. I use them on my boat and my customers boat builds. Great battery.
Here’s the important part - if you only use something 3 times a year and don’t care about weight/performance/capacity then you can just go buy the crap Walmart battery and swap it out over 2 or 3 years. BUT if you actually use the vehicle / item you will want to use LiFEPO4. A good LiFePo4 will have a 10+ year life. The cost per year is much lower. More so, the cost per kWh will be much lower over the life.
That blessed my socks off!!!
I love the display on older systems you have no idea the state of charging or discharging
I like the batteries Brock, Good to see your Dad! thanks for the video.
New technology is definitely evolving, good job!
The old VW Beatles had their battery under the back seat. A real pain to jump, but they were fun to drive
Your lights are drawing 1700 watts from the battery, but they're not actually drawing that much. That particular inverter is only 87% efficient, so for every 100 watts you're pulling from the battery, 13 watts is being used by the inverter and 87 watts is being delivered to the load. 1500 watts of load on the inverter at 87% efficiency is right at 1695 watts from the battery.
Definitely looking forward to Lifepo4 batteries being useable and common in modern vehicles.
My dad purchased a used F100 in 1969. Put an Exide brand battery in it. The same battery was still going strong in 1991 when he sold the truck. Someone show me a modern manufacture automobile battery that last for 22 yrs! You expect your new tech Lipo to have a good lifespan?
A simple $30 dollar battery maintainer would be the cheapest way to go. Some models even have a built-in desulfurnator. I have a 1957 Ford Fairlane I restored in 2001. Still has the SAME battery I installed at the time. It's not my daily driver so it sets undriven for sometime. I have a Battery Tender on it to keep the battery healthy. Of course I check the tires and other rubber components regularly, too. (ATP AT-205 to treat the rubber.) The car never fails to start and runs better than the day she left the factory. Maintain don't replace.
Good information brother. Band of brothers and sisters 🇺🇸🇺🇸
That PowerQueen battery also has a BMS, almost all of them do these days.
The battery in this video is not a starting battery, while it will start some engines, the battery is not designed for this. Starting battery are very different that holding batteries.
A starting battery is designed to provide very high cranking amps for a very short period of time. They are not meant for constant discharging. Your alternator provides the actual power used by the vehicle.
A holding battery is designed to run items over a longer period of time, such as a trolling motor or run a refrigerator.
When you use a holding battery as a starter battery, you will significantly shorten its lifespan. Now, this may be worth the tradeoff, but people need to be aware of that.
There are LIPO4 starter batteries, but they are still exceedingly expensive.
Also, while the BMS screen is nice to have, it is almost always the point of failure. The battery will still work, but the screen will go out.
Again, with the huge drop in price, these are becoming more replaceable, but people need to be aware.
They are not expensive anymore. Dakota Lithium makes their DL+ starting battery line-up and it is very much financially viable for any vehicle you frequently use.
Great video love to put one of these in my 64 Galaxie. Dam brock, you are looking amazing was watching a older video yesterday and dam man you looking good look like a different person 👌
Thanks
Thank you Brock very good information.!! It looks like super capacitors are going to be the future at that point these batteries you show here will be the starters. Generator motors with supercaps. We should be able to charge everything we use on the drive to and from a 9-5 job already. !!! Let’s not talk about work vans and semi’s. Just an example is the Tesla power wall it uses 6 very small high output capacitors to power an average home. !!
Battery technology has come a long way. My dad had a '54 Chevy pickup, the battery was under the floorboard in the cab. You had to turn the key on and mash a pedal in the floor to engage the starter.
This 49 has is the same its an. Anti theft device most people don't know how to start it
Seems like would be a good option for my hydraulic trailer that Dosent get used very often
Cost is down and they are worth it, BUT...they can NOT, I repeat, NOT be charged below 32F temp. Some models have a little heater, and the BMS (controller) can help stop charging when temps are too low. The battery will be destroyed if charged below freezing. The cold temps wont damage it unless it is charging. But be careful. Other than that Lifepo4 is amazing.
Good quality batteries are now self heating. Not the junk budget ones; but the real lifepo4 batteries have self heating. You can also retrofit older once with heaters that go on externally.
Every place I checked said that lifepo4 can't be used as a starter battery. One of the issues is that they can be damaged when charging in below freezing and colder conditions. The other is they aren't designed for short bursts of 400 amps, more for long slow discharges.
When the company reached out, I said ask them if this battery would work for these specific uses.
They emailed me back and said yes it would work fine for an old tractor, an antique car, or a sawmill.
I’m going off with the company told me. as shown in the video, my friend Lucas has been running one on his four wheeler for quite some time
I searched a few months ago for a 52 AC and got the opposite answer. I think one day they might be ready, but all the research I did indicated they aren't ready for prime time. But I'll be happy if they are. After looking at the specific battery, it also seems to show a max recommended current rating of 125 amps (oops 107 not 125) (1280watts). This indicates intended use as a slowish discharge over a long time period. A starter battery is typically rated at 600-1000 amps. The description likewise seems to indicate that it is best suitable for running appliances, lights, etc. It doesn't mention anywhere about engine starting applications which generally require at least 300 amps (minimum) for a typical tractor engine (a real tractor not a lawn and garden tractor). It would likely be fine for a lawn and garden tractor (motorcycle, etc.), even for starting. Another issue is that they typically require special charging control and may be damaged by typical LA charging circuits (alt/gen) or at least longevity lessened.
Ya they are not meant for a starter use. Discharge rate isn't relevant, use in low temp is. These will never cold start an engine in freezing temps. There are self heating ones but not efficient.
I am a LiFEPO4 dealer for a bunch of companies. Dakota Lithium makes batteries specific for starting. It’s the DL+ line. Check them out.
Good morning Brock. I usually don't comment on things that I don't know anything about but that's not why I'm here today. It was great seeing "Frankentractor" again. I always wondered what happened to it. What ever happened to the backhoe? Just curious. God bless and have a wonderful day. 👍👍🙂
Great video!!
That '49 chevy, I supposed it has been converted to 12v? The starter sure spun fast. It might be the old 6v starter...
Yes it is been starting it with 12 volt for several years
LIFePo is lithium Iron Polymer
It is a test we really aren't making any claims and what we are doing is very vehicle specific we are now two weeks in and it starts every time and charges with no problems waiting to see how it does long term.
The self discharge rate of lead acid batteries are about 8% per month for flooded and about 4% per month for AGM compared to about 1% for LiFePO4 cells (not counting the discharge of some BMS's during balancing operations) so they are better at holding a charge in that respect but the real difference is that lithium batteries don't sulfate to death as they begin to discharge.
An inexpensive desulfurnator will solve that problem. I have a 14-year old riding mower with its original battery. During the off-season, I use a Battery Tender with desulfurnator attached when the mower is in storage. I run a full check on the battery with an analyzer and it still checks well within specs.
@@research903 I do the same on all of my outdoor power equipment. I just replaced my lawn mower battery at the end of the season last year. The previous battery lasted 12 years before it finally had a cell failure and would no longer start the unit reliably. So proper use and maintenance definitely saves on lead acid batteries.
Problem with LFP for outdoor usage right now is that if you charge it below freezing it's immediately damaged. You wont notice immediately because it affects how much power jt stores, but not how much momentary output it has. So you eont notice unless you are not starting right up. In that case a damaged battery might help you start for half as long as an undamaged battery. If your battery is heated or you store them in the winter then I'm all about them. I have one out at my pond with a solar panel running an aeration pump. But i switch to lead acid during the cold months. Next winter I'm gonna try wrapping it with a heating pad.
Yeah, if you buy an all in one sort of battery like this, need to make sure its BMS has low temp cutoff at a minimum. But an integrated heater is even better.
So, that problem has been fixed. Many batteries are now self heating. Even if not, you stick a battery heater in it and you are good to go.
Be sure your information isn't dated i saw a video stating it wouldn't work but when i checked it was from two years ago.
Lithium battery prices are dropping and lead acid battery prices are increasing. I can now buy a 12 volt lithium battery for my solar boat dock system for less than the price I paid for two deep cycle golf cart batteries two years ago. Those same lead acid batteries are now even more expensive. Switching to Lithium and a new charge controller when I need new batteries in my dock system.
Lead acid batteries are going the way of coal. No one should be putting lead acid batteries in electric golf carts anymore. That’s for sure.
Lead is dead.
They should be charged using a lifepo4 specific charger. A regular charger wont dmage it per se, but you will shorten its life by not using a modern lifepo4 setting on your charger.
A “regular” charger will not shorten a LiFEPO4 batteries life. A lead acid/AGM style charger will merely charge the battery to 80-90%. I work directly with a Lifepo4 manufacture and their head of engineering has said it directly.
Since we made this video i have seen a person start a 7.3 diesel engine on a single 100 ah lifepo battery
Seems like that would be good for a generator.
It's their volitility that worries me.
LifePO4 are not volatile like prior Lithium Ion batteries.
There is atleast one company that i saw that makes them specifically for modern cars i get so tired of replacing batteries that aren't even very old just because it has set to long
Don't you need a special charger to charge them?
My standard battery charger charged it to 100%
Yes you do they have specific charging curves. A normal car wouldn't be able to charge correctly.
@@RobertJLessard that is one of the reasons that they’re not recommended for modern cars, but my regular Walmart battery charger charges it to 100%
The newer versions of these batteries have improved on charging systems
@@RobertJLessardincorrect. They charge just fine. An alternator puts out 14.7 volts. Plenty for LiFepo4.
@@RockhillfarmYTyes and no. A modern alternator puts out up to 15volts. Usually 14.7. They work just fine for charging. The problem is that the LIfEPO4 has such low impedance to charging (low resistance) that if you aren’t careful you can burn up your alternator. Here’s why, you alternator is roughly 50% efficient. Meaning about 50% of the energy created is in the form of heat. When you have a LIfEPO4 battery that can take say 100amps charging load (1470 watts). Your alternator has to make 1470Watts of power plus 1470watts of heat. The issue lies at low RPM this is too much heat/load on the alternator. This is why you need to use something like a DL+ 60 (Dakota lithium) that is made for starting. The BMS on that does not let you kill your alternator. The alternative is using a DC-DC charger to limit the power drain if you are using an older technology LIFEpO4
These are real world test not guess work will it function will it last I guess we will see
❤
I'm from the future and I have questions . 🤔
Just kidding ... I am actually curious how these work out in vehicles exposed to higher extremes in heat and cold
Lifepo4 doesn’t care about heat. They will function just fine at any temperature you can survive in. As for cold, discharging in cold (freezing or below) is fine HOWEVER charging below ~34 degrees (can vary) is a problem. The solution is self heating batteries. The good battery manufacturers are including a self heating function that brings the battery’s internal temperature up to above freezing. This allows charging at cold temps.
I use the big battery husky 2 (5kWh) battery for most of my bulk system builds because it is a) self heating b) waterproof c) stackable (in multiple configurations) d) great price per kw
@@WillS-x9y Thanks 👍
Need to be sure your equipment does NOT have a parisitic draw
Morin
The amazon site says it is not a starting battery GOLDENMATE Lithium Iron Batteries are suitable for trolling motors, solar, RV, station wagons, bass boats, off-grid applications, household appliances, marine, caravan, medical equipment, electric scooters, industrial, hunting, lawn, and gardening tools, etc. Note: The battery 12v 100ah bluetooth not a starting battery. My understanding is you can fry an alternator in a modern car because of the low resistance of the battery it will over work the alternator. Need more knowledge before making some of these recommendations.
@@ke6bnl Sounds like constant load type applications. I wonder what they mean by station wagons. My last several station wagons were Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagons, which is just a typical car.
The alternator in a modern car is going to have voltage regulation but it will only put out it's rated current so it shouldn't be a problem even with the lower internal resistance because these batteries will never go below 10 or above 14.6-14.8V as the BMS will kick out in both of these scenarios. What you don't want is the battery to reach full charge with the alternator being at a higher voltage than the full charge cutoff of the BMS since the BMS will disconnect the battery and some modern vehicles along with older vehicles rely on the load of the battery to help keep the voltage in the safe range during operation since the charging systems can sometimes spike up to a high enough voltage to cause damage in some vehicles or they can start a dangerous oscillation up and down in voltage if there is not enough capacitance in the system to smooth it out.
Yeah, I mentioned not recommending them for a modern car but I asked the manufacturer about the specific applications we showed in the video. Old tractor, sawmill, four wheeler, antique truck.
They said these were a good choice for those applications
@@RockhillfarmYTYes, as I understand it, smart alternators is where these could go wrong.
I have an AGM battery in my 2012 SUV but had to do a slight modification to make sure it will charge fully for the same reason.
Yes definitely not for starting battery use.