See, that's what I think; a lady at work just stumbled while walking down the hallway a few days ago and now I relate that to unseen Silence bodies in various states of decay.
I like to think that the Doctor saying the Brigadier was meant to die in bed was less about him seeing into his friend's future and more something he would wish for any of us. Not to die a traumatic, explosive death but a peaceful one.
Once again, I have to point out, not everyone was brought back as a Cyberman! A TINY portion of the dead were. Kate said so herself. Every site was active, but in any cemetary, only a small number were actually rising. Yes, Missy was planning on bringing them all back, but Danny and Twelve thwarted her before she got the chance. Yes, Amy and Rory could have been made into Cybermen, and either way a digital version of them was put on the Nethersphere, but NOT everybody rose again. There's a solid 99% chance they never rose
I had forgotten that Amy and Rory would be in the nethersphere. They could produce an amazing DW short about their final moments as the hard drive was shut down. Perhaps they even met Danny, and were somehow involved in his decision to save a child rather than himself.
In short: I don't think that Amy and Rory were transformed to Cybermen. In long: Sit down, take a cup of tea, we are going deep in *takes a deep breath* "Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" is a window in time that we can't define and which I will ignore. In the end it would add one or two years to the result. Source is mainly wikipedia. First of all we establishe the year Amy and Rory died. Amy meets the doctor as a seven-year old girl (in "The Eleventh Hour"). 5 minutes later or 12 years I guess, "Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey", she is 19 years old (7 + 12 = 19). This is in her kissogram phase. After the doctor test rides his new Tardis Amy got 2 years more in the waiting game (19 + 2 = 21) and is about to marry Rory. After a little bit time traveling with the doctor and Rory finally waiting 2000 years for his girlfriend in a Pandorica-Box to arrive and the reset of the whole universe. "Okay, kid. This is where it gets complicated.". I would suggest that the age didn't change much, so Amy is still 21. Some time goes by with Amy and Rory traveling with the doctor, "Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey", (honeymoon, birth of Melody Pond, 2 Amy's in quarantine). He lets them live a normal life, until they meet again 2 years gone by (21 + 2 = 23)(in "The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe"). After their divorce in "Asylum of the Daleks", they both get together and Amy hints that the doctor is for 10 years in their both lives. This can be defined at two starting dates, the first one would be the time when the doctor meets Rory for the first time in "The Eleventh Hour" or the time where Rory travels with Amy and the doctor together. I choose the first date, which would result in Amy being a few years younger, so (19 + 10 = 29). Rory is said to be 31 years old at the time of "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship". Now to the hard part. In "The Angels Take Manhattan" Amy and Rory were send back in time. According to the book which Amy wrote in the 1930s, the time she arrived would be 1925-1939 (this is a guess). 1946 they adopted their son. Amy died at the age of 87 and Rory at the age of 82. When Amy died at the age of 87 and was around 29 when she was send back in time, she would live around 58 years from the 1930s (87 - 29 = 58). 1925 + 58 = 1983 1930 + 58 = 1988 1939 + 58 = 1997 (1 year after her birth according to an other source) 1946 + 58 = 2004 When Rory died at the age of 82 and was around 31 when he was send back in time, he would live around 51 years from the 1930s (82 - 31 = 51). 1925 + 51 = 1976 1930 + 51 = 1981 1939 + 51 = 1990 1946 + 51 = 2097 Let's assume it was 1939 when they arrived, both would be dead by 1998. R.I.P you both. Secondly we state the date Brigadier Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart died. Don't worry, it will be a short summary. According "The Wedding of River Song" he died 2011. Now that we have some points in time, we can see if Amy and Rory could be Cybermens in "Death in Heaven". We know that Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart became a Cybermen, that means Missy has to be arround 2011 to collect the mind of the people who are about to die. To collect Amy and Rory, Missy had to be in the time before 1998. Which would mean that she did travel in time and did set this all up before Harold Saxon. But when Sason died, would he not also be collected and uploaded? But that would cause a time paradox with Missy living. An other point is the brain that a Cybermen needs, without the brain a Cybermen is nothing more than a robot. So only recently passed away could be transformed to a Cybermen after the rain of "Cyberpollen". My last point why Amy and Rory are not transformed to Cybermen is a combination of the previous ones. Amy and Rory died in Manhatten (tombstones), Missy had to be at that time to set up the upload and conversion to Cybermen, this combination does not realy work out. It's more likely that they both did not became Cybermen. *exhales*
A concerning factoid about TARDIS’s-alongside the whole being living thinking beings-is that Time Lords are quite utilitarian with their treatment of them. New Types of TARDIS were being pumped out every few centuries leading up to the Time War, and most Time Lords would choose to upgrade and abandon their previous capsule once they had the option of a better one. The bond between TARDIS and it’s pilots is described as being very intimate, so it’s the equivalent of getting a mew dog and paying attention only to that one and putting the old one to pasture. While it’s still alive and fairly young. TARDIS’s have potential lifespans of thousands of years, though usually they’d live only for a few hundred before being replaced and decommissioned. Another thing-TARDIS personalities being more developed is mentioned at times to be a fault, due to “improper maintenance”. The reason the Doctor’s TARDIS acts anything like it does, is not only because of it’s advanced age compared to the newer models, but because the Doctor hasn’t been taking “proper” care of it for the better part of two millennia.
And he keeps leaving the handbrake on! There's also the slightly inconvenient fact that TARDIS's are supposed to be escape capsules and the Doctor's TARDIS is doing things it wasn't even designed to do. That poor old girl has been pinging all over the universe for millennia, she deserves a break. Definitely not to be crushed to death!
@@ModelsExInferis Don’t forget they are research vessel as well! Though it depends on the particular TARDIS. Some were better suited to transportation, others research, and a small handful dedicated to warfare-mainly the types developed during the Time War, such as the War Spire Type-94 and the absolutely horrifying Time Dreadnought Type 105. I’m surprised at this point without any true maintenance on his craft she hasn’t finally buckled down. Considering the Shipyard that made her is long gone, spare parts aren’t exactly common anymore…
With the new models, they may have removed the living side and kept only the machine side to avoid potential drift on the part of the consciousness of each old TARDIS.
@@mathisbiaujout5858not Maybe it is Like that. Get mentioned in one of the Audios If im right. The old ones have to much impect and free will, a Point that Time Lords don't Like so they Change parts of it. The Doctor T-40 TARDIS already was a Pretty old one as He stole her, getting mentioned as Museum Piece or Scrap so she definitly has a free will. Clara told him to Take her since that, their was nothing Bad at her, but the free will and newer Generations get her Out of Order. For the doctor she is perfect since she predict where are People in need an bring him their. The Master TARDIS for Exemple was as He First steal it a Typ-42, as He Take the Name "The Master" He already switched her and use a Typ-45. So we dunno what Generation exactly the one destroyed was and If it had a high Personality and bioparts or was already more mechanic
I don’t think the Doctor’s comment to the Brigadier was meant as him knowing how the general would die. Rather it was meant as a lament over the Doctor’s hope that the man would live to a ripe old age and die in his sleep.
Considering what we know about commerce it's safe to assume that the forget drug only works temporarily, so that customers have an incentive to buy again and agin.
The problem with the silence even without video cameras everywhere is that it would be virtually impossible for them to operate within crowds of people as there is always someone looking at the strange figure in the suit.
I somewhat disagree with #1. His statement of dying in bed could refer to the notion that The Brig should have stayed retired and died, peacefully, in his sleep.
Good ol' brigadier kept going for a long time tbf His appearance in the Sarah Jane adventures was a joy Indo agree that it was probably a wish for his friend to be retired and peaceful but it hits harder knowing that's how he passed within the show
Another factor in Eight's refusal to wear robes is that the Master put on traditional Gallifreyan robes and regalia before attempting to destroy his soul and steal his recently regenerated body. That would leave a bit of a resentment to be sure.
@@davidcrazyrides It was originally suppose to have been Eccelston in the 50th but he turned it down. So, Moffatt had to think of something else and, since the Doctor at that time still had a regeneration left, the War Doctor was born.
"sometime are the things that we don't see..." And Billie Piper appears in the scene where she screamed at a tennis ball, representing a monster that she couldn't actually see...
If ever there were a video to show to someone to say, "This is why you should watch this channel" - here it is. The writing was on point, amusing and thought provoking. The editing was... well done, just well done. I smiled quite a few times just at what I was seeing onscreen. And the presentation was so natural I thought you were speaking from the heart rather than reading a script. I've often said that my favorite actors are my favorites because I couldn't tell when they were acting. In this video, I couldn't tell. So, if that thing with the video games is true, I am a mass murderer. Although unless a doctor (Timelord or not) can figure out a way to reverse whatever is wrong with my hand, the future for pixelated lifeforms looks a bit brighter. If all the corpses in history were converted to Cybermen, and you believe in the idea of past lives, that's got some interesting implications. I'm around 78% on the believing side (memories I can't account for and all that), and if I've been kicking around as long as I think I have, I probably make up about 5% of the Cyberarmy myself. Sobering thought. "Certain friends" - The Doctor definitely knows when at least some of his closest companions will die. In the case of River, that was the whole point. It was the basis of their entire relationship. That's how Moffat wrote her: The closest companion the Doctor would ever have was the one whose fate he knew from the moment they met. Doctor Who is often a light-hearted show, being after all a kids show at heart, but scattered in amongst the mirth are some truly, exquisitely, heartbreakingly, beautiful moments (three "hearts" in one sentence; top that). And no one did it better than Moffat, all to a Murray Gold score that could tear your soul right out, and that is a hill I'd be willing to die on, were such a thing possible. P.S. they only let me give the video one "like".
I always took it for granted that the events in Father's Day were effectively an alternative timeline caused by Rose saving Pete. And that when that timeline was aborted by Pete reversing that decision, the participants would forget everything that had happened (because it now hadn't) and the existiing narrative would resume.
Except that in The Parting of the Ways, Rose specifically brought up the fact that there was a "blonde girl" with him when he died, and that that girl was her. And Jackie didn't dispute it.
@@ealeana3569 I think that this was after the anomaly had been corrected meaning that Pete died when and where he was supposed to. The fact that there was now a mysterious blonde girl with him when he died didn't need to be erased or changed back to the exact original version.
@@stevesm4 Yes, but, in the original timeline, Jackie told Rose, "I only wish there'd been someone there for him" (when he died). The fact that Rose ended up being there is different than the original and shows that there was a slight change to the original timeline. I only mentioned it because Rose makes a point of referencing it when she's trying to convince her mother that she needs to get back to the doctor at the end of the season.
That episode kills me cause she risked everything for her father to be alive again I’m so glad they had the best outcome in the in the finale ep with the rose part from Micky lol
One mega mystery - the mysterious beast of midnight. An entity that was never seen, what makes it more terrifying, it was never really defeated. All they defeated was simply a vessel, and its still out there
4:50 What, you've never stumbled as you're walking for no "real" reason? Are you sure you didn't just trip over something that WAS there that you can't remember what it was?
The silence are not invisible. If you are looking in their direction, you will see them. Even if you aren't looking where you are going, after you trip, you will more than likely look back to see what you tripped over, then you would see them. (I am sorry for taking it too seriously and spoiling the joke, but you are not the only one who made the joke.) The video made more than one ridiculous claim, the whole idea that we wouldn't notice dead bodies lying around was just one of them. Sure, we would forget when we turn away, but not while we are looking at them. And wouldn't at least UNIT be noticing the bodies and doing something about them, as well as whoever is doing the killing?
I have been watching WhoCulture for more than a year and have to say that Ellie's articles are a joy and thought provoking. Thanks for all of the hard work!
2:40 Another interesting question would be if 8's most significant change in outfit can be linked to the regeneration from 13 to 14 where the clothes change as well. If the Doctors subconciousness can manifest different clothes that break away from what is expected... Why not IRL? The Doctors not all wear the same robe : 7 already diversifies by not wearing the dotted fabrique. 8ths wardrobe stands out the most. Moreso, while wearing the same or similar robes, 3:36 I think the notion that 1, 5, 6 and 7 have the same body is 'rubbish'. Along with their faces, they all have different posture as well. Looking back on the complete scene, notice how first 1 holds his lapels, 6 moves his hands down and rests them on his legs, in which pose the Doctor remains throughout the following shape shifts. Including 8. It is only jumbled up a bit during a quick shift to 1 later, were he has his hands back up again. It's the same person, different incarnations that are not all in uniform.
Colin earned the nickname " The Electric Doctor " because of the *GARISH* outfits that they made him wear. All he needed was a big red nose and clown makeup along with a colorful wig.
I've never thought about all the dead companions being revived as Cybermen in that episode. Now it's all I'll think about when watching it. Thanks, Ellie.
I also feel that no 8 not wearing robes is more of a play on him being different from the rest as he was a solo tv movie and had the claims of being half human. He's more unique due to these circumstances so will always be the odd one out
The Paul McGann Doctor should never have been accepted into canon. That film was just rubbish, an insult to fans and to all the great talent that went into the show over the decades since it began.
Nope, the 7th Doctor DIDN'T specifically know when Alistair's demise was. The reaction, and subsequent results of that knowledge, were key in Smith's Doctor deciding to face his own fixed point fate. This is NOT a case of him putting off visiting his friend because Lethbridge-Stewart got old. He genuinely was shocked when he made that call. Seven was speaking metaphorically. As in "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away..."
Personally I always liked the Tardis fact revealed in one of the books, specifically the one detailing his death( too many years, don't remember the title ), that the Doctor's Tardis *_is_* the Doctor. They may have changed canon by now but originally the Doctor stole his Tardis from a museum, as who could use time machines was extremely regulated, where it was on display as an "antique" time machine that supposedly no longer functioned yet for some reason reacted to the Doctor there by allowing him to start his adventures. The book reveals at the end that as the Doctor came to the end of his cycle of regenerations and the Tardis had just enough energy left for one more jump through time he traveled back to the museum long before he first saw the Tardis there, set up the display plate and then used the last of his life force to recharge the Tardis so his younger self could find and use it. This explains why the Tardis appeared to have a will of its own at times( appearing and disappearing by itself, jumping to "wrong" times etc) whereas other "Tardisi" such as the Master's were just machines incapable of independent action and seemed oddly connected to the Doctor( "now where is that blasted box?" appears behind him like it's pranking him ), because unlike other time machines it was powered by a time lord's life force and specifically the Doctor's. Granted this was long before the episode mentioned in this video that stated all time machines are alive and I'm sure not considered canon now though personally I like this explanation much more.
It might still be canon. Even with the Timeless Child reveal, the Doctor still had the same Tardis as always. Possibly several lifetimes before the First Doctor stole her from the workshop.
There's another one of the books, "Blood Heat" I think, where Seven loses his TARDIS in a tar pit, but he was in an alternate timeline where the Silurians killed Three, and he takes his TARDIS. (I read that book like 25 years ago and can still remember that. Not where I left my keys an hour ago.)
Thank you to the video editor for posting a clip of Shaun of the Dead because, ever since I first watched DW, I knew I recognized Penelope Wilton (the actress who played Harriet Jones) but I could never place it and low and behold it was Shaun of the Dead this whole time!
Moffat loves to take mundane occurences and give them horrific meanings. So whenever we seem to trip over nothing, we've tripped over the body of a Silence. Also I'm pretty sure the Fourth Doctor was speaking metaphorically when he was talking about zombies.
I'm sorry, but unless you are walking around in the dark or wearing a blindfold, you would see a dead Silence if you were looking in their direction, so unless you intentionally step on/over dead bodies, that doesn't make any sense, and you would certainly see it when you look back to see what you tripped over if you do walk over bodies.
When the 4th doctor is talking about zombies, he could just be talking about all the various zombie-like things that are out there, making a sort of blanket statement about Gelth, water zombies, etc
As well as being Cybermen, wouldn't all the dead companions have been turned into clones of The Master too? I seem to recall Wilfred asking if they were changed in their graves and The Doctor responds "I'm sorry" implying that they did change.
All those companions and the Brigadier was the only one who could resist having his mind taken over? The Doctor should have had at least a dozen Cyber-allies.
But they were dead and in graves. So what, the Master had a lot of dead clones burried six feet under. How exactly does it matter? It was undone by Rassilon in the end. It might be a "nice detail", but nothing more than that. Stuff with Amy and Rory being turned into Cybermen and coming out of their graves is a little bit more disturbing than lots of dead copies of the Master burried under earth.
We actually saw the Brigadier as a Cyberman he was even still himself enough to not only save his own daughter but salute the Doctor who finally saluted him back
Anyone remember the X files episode "je souhaite"? An invisble man gets run over by a car, ends up on the sidewalk and a day later causes a cyclist to comically crash into an empty spot with buzzing flies. Imagine that happening all over the world unless people look directly at the bodies :D
Pretty certain the number 1 is meant to be a statement that the doctor was hoping the brigadier would stay alive and healthy and die of old age peacefully in bed like most people would like to go. Not a statment of him knowing his future specifically. Otherwise wouldnt the doctor prevent so many more of his companions fates like clara, the ponds, bill potts?
That first point about video game characters was made by a simulated Doctor who was themselves "real" by the standards of that imperfect simulation (which was one if many), so what he said was true for _that_ simulated reality, not necessarily for the prime reality of the show.
yeah, largely because that’s just not what a video game is. Any AI at play in a video game is one or two “directors” shuffling models around, playing audio files, and otherwise creating the illusion that there are other conscious beings in this virtual world. if video games had consciousness, they would not be experiencing you murdering them, they’d be experiencing… being a video game. They would know that their purpose was to manage the illusory scene. So a GTA game wouldn’t be going “oh my god, i’m about to get run over ahhhh” it would be going “ok, he’s going on a rampage. let’s play those terrified running animations, cue the scream sounds, yes good, now bring in the cops, ooh nice dodge, he’s getting better at this. now let’s spawn a tank, but not too near, he’s only at four stars yet” etc
@@DavidBeddard exactly, although even that movie portrayed each character as having their own POV, when in reality that would be an absurd waste of system resources. it’s still to this day incredibly rare to have working mirrors in a video games, for instance, since it requires rendering a second POV or faking that with an entirely separate space. the game world only exists in the way in appears on the screen while it’s on the screen! black mirror is very guilty of pushing this nonsense, and it always drives me insane because no matter how much tech advances, there will always be a much better use for processing power than creating conscious beings and making them experience a full range of sensory input, especially if said beings regularly have massive existential crises and in at least one case, attack and kill or at least permanently disable the guy playing the game. there will just never be any reason for that to be something a computer would be used for
@@chexfan2000 That kind of argument could have been made for many things that humans have ended up doing anyway throughout history. Just because something is a bad idea doesn't mean it won't be done.
@@DavidBeddard it’s not just a bad idea, it’s an unbelievably complicated undertaking that would benefit precisely nobody when nearly all other available paths to narrative and experiential fidelity offer less resistance. You can’t just make shit up and use “well, people said other shit was unlikely, and what i said sounds unlikely, so it’s probably going to happen” as proof that it will happen. Just because some people said we’d never walk on the moon doesn’t mean we WILL strap rockets to the moon and fly it around going “WHEEEEE”. one was a difficult undertaking, the other is a nonsensical and pointless undertaking that would cause problems and enrich nobody and improve nothing.
The last entry was such a stretch. It was a metaphoric way of saying 'You deserved better' or anything to that effect. He would rather his friend have died peacefully rather than in a violent way. It doesn't mean the Doctor can see into people's deaths.
My suspicion about the forget drug, is that its affects are temporary, probably lasting as long as the medication in the patch lasts. It would make sense, as the people peddling the mood drugs would not want the market to dry up.
10:30 during a library episode, one of the characters there knew the doctor from a much older version of himself and was hanging out with her throughout time because she died there so he gave her some crazy memories knowing she would die upon his "first" meeting with her. I consider it as counting since he saw her die and then went back to hang out with her.
This video is overthinking the reason why Paul McGann’s Doctor isn’t wearing a robe. I was recently at a Comic Con where Sylvester McCoy explained that McGann couldn’t be there for filming so he was shot somewhere else other than the Doctor Who studio and they weren’t able to get a robe to him (I’m assuming he already had his costume for some reason). They had to account for this in the script by having a brief jokey remark about it. I also think that too much is being read into The Brigadier’s death here. I don’t think the 7th Doctor was necessary speaking from a personal knowledge of how The Brigadier was going to die at all. More that was a statement of how he didn’t think he would end up dying at the hands of The Destroyer and that this wasn’t the death he’d wanted for his old friend. It’s not that he knew exactly how the Brigadier would die.
A fan called Steven Ricks custom made a costume for him which is what he wears in the episode and at many convention appearances. He also made Peter Davison's costume for the recent Power of the Doctor episode.
You misunderstand the Doctor's speech about him dying in bed. If he KNEW the Brigidier dies in bed, then he wouldn't believe him dead here. No, he was referring to the fact that Brigidier Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart had been retired, then pulled out of retirement for the incident in Battlefield. The Doctor had been referring to their earlier conversations regarding him and his retirement, his life with Doris, and so on. It had nothing to do with pre-knowledge. Also, the Doctor HATES endings, and therefore does not read the ending of anyone or anything.
7:20 a better version of Fathers Day, and a much darker one at that, was done with the recent Torchwood audio drama “Disco.” A lot of the same elements but having Ianto realize that to put the future right he needs to turn his day into a drug/alcohol addicted, cold, and often horrible person has a lot more emotion behind it.
At the end of 'Forest of the Dead' when the 'saved' people are teleported from the library it's never mentioned again that the library planet has been under quarantine for 100 years, as described in 'Silence in the Library '. The loved ones of the people leaving are most likely dead, their wives/husbands etc - even their children would now be old and on the point of death.
Don't forget, you remember anything to do with Silents when you lay eyes on them again. They memory-proof themselves, they cannot be remembered when unseen but when you see a Silent, you remember any previous encounters with them. Which means that everyone who kills a Silent most likely disposes of the corpse immediately.
One thing you don't think about is all the times the doctor has visited companions after Regeneration and they didn't even know, we wouldn't have known. Could be just to say hello, open a door, a word of encouragement.
problem with the silence is you will see the corpse and probably get people to help remove them, whats more likely is the morgue is just full of millions of dead silence bodies that no one can remember long enough to finish an autopsy.
I don't concider 13 canon. Her actions and story arc definatly go against the doctors lore. Doctors wife. Timeless child destroyed galifreys legacy... ect.
“I DoNt CoNsIdER …” boi stfu you aren’t writing this I’m sure your story would be sterile, gag inducing, and boring. Send me your ao3 and prove my wrong you wanker
Fan fact about number 1 According to the audio story "a death in the family " the 7th doctor said that he has a record of the date and place of death of many of his companions/friends
The fact death in the doctor who universe is just a black void and you are CONSCIOUS every second for eternity is gut wrenchingly terrifying, so is the flip side miracle day Anyone who dies goes there, I do wander if that is THE void the daleks hid in, good or bad, all end up there living an eternal afterlife of nothingness or maybe the disembodied consciousness of a time lord known as "death" to stalk you Suddunly being experimented on doesn't feel quite so bad in this universe
9. I thought the forget made them forget about the motorway and how everyone on the first lane were killed by the Macra. 8. Big Finish have released an audio series where classic Doctors (so far, every Doctor 3-8 have been used at least once) encountering enemies introduced onscreen in the revived series. In it's second volume, The Fifth Doctor encountered some Racnoss who were being hunted by Time Lords. He actually saved a Racnoss queen from said Time Lords, whose ways The Doctor even outright said he had long since abandoned due to what they are. 3. An offscreen source claimed that Adric ended up in the Nethersphere and Missy took great delight in the thought of having him converted. I have wondered if any other good people who knew The Doctor and ended up there also resisted the control over them (including Vicki, another companion of The Doctor's who had also died at that point after she stayed behind in Ancient Greece, and Katarina and Sara Kingdom, the first companions The Doctor lost in battle). 1. People here have thought that when The Doctor told the Brigadier that, he was referring to how he saw he was supposed to die when he did not timeline wise. All the same, all of The Doctors have been stated as having attended his funeral.
4:48 Idk about anyone else but I've seemingly tripped on thin air plenty of times before...and now I'm considering how many Silence corpses we may have interacted with without even realizing/remembering lol.
I don't think the soldiers of Galifrey are Time Lords as mentioned in the video at 4m 56s, part six. As far as I am aware, Time Lord is a rank, not a race. The soldiers are Galifreyan, but may not have been elevated to the status of a Time Lord. This would be important in respect to the recording of one of their deaths - given a Time Lord would regenerate (assuming they have not reached their 13th incarnation), making their ‘death’ less traumatic for their family.
From the dialogue of Morbius in The Brain of Morbius, time lords also have ranks. I can't remember the exact words he said but it was when he scoffed at the 4th Doctor's challenge to a battle of minds; he said something like, "I am a time lord of the 16th rank! What are you?" Great story for many reasons.
I love the Fathers day episode :0 I wish they would bring the reapers back. That means Tosh Owen and Ianto where brought back as Cybermen as well that'd be hard for Jack :0
The TARDISes can survive the Void. Even the earliest models can do that, and there's an Eleventh Doctor story about that iirc. A nice theory is that the TARDIS 13 sends to the Void is fished out by the Division and given to the Division Doctors (at this time a future model and thus the best available for the Timeless Child), and that's why it's a police box. After Division wipes the Doctor's mind, the TARDIS is sent to repairs, but is now old and nobody claims it, so it just sits there until the First Doctor finds it again. And since the TARDIS claims she stole the Doctor, it's also possible that there might not have been a Clara at all influencing his choice, but the TARDIS herself.
Another reason that the 8th Doctor was different than the other past doctors in that scene besides not wearing robes is that he's "half human on his mother's side" and they're not! 😜
Ooo, good episode you guys! Very thought provoking 😊 2 things. 1. Graveyard Cybermen. The Doctor is no doubt looking at it from what might feel like a cold perspective but Amy, Rory and any other companion that has passed are gone. They aren't their remains. Even if those bodies somehow came back with the biological parts that made them up, it still wouldn't be them. It's as one should be if a loved one became a zombie or assimilated by the borg. They are no longer who they were, they are gone. Just because the weapon looks like a loved one doesn't make it any less a weapon that's intention is to kill you. Look at they way 12 was with Bill in Twice Upon a Time. Right up till the end, they kept saying that she isn't the real Bill Potts. Yes, our memories make us who we are but from the Doctor's perspective, Bill is really no more than a fancy video recorder. She doesn't feel, look or smell the same and the Doctor notices things like that. It's not that they don't want to accept it, it's only that when you are working on coming to terms with the loss of someone, especially in the way Bill died, to have them come back only to see them go away again is hard and the Doctor doesn't like endings. Yes, sometimes you can reverse things but as the Doctor has said, life is rarely a fairytale. 2. The Death of a TARDIS. I thought this was a cold take on the situation where 13 sacrifices a TARDIS only because you should know that the Doctor would never do such a thing. There's a lot we don't get to see in a TV series but for me, I felt like it wasn't necessary to show the Doctor accepting the TARDIS's decision to sacrifice itself because we know who the Doctor is. I don't know the reason for not showing it as it would have been a great way to remind us viewers about the sentience of those TARDIS's. I know the Doctor has gone against their promise before but at 13's point, they have grown a lot since those bad decisions. Now, with that being said, I don't know if Chris Chibnall meant for it to be taken this way or if it was a careless error on his part. If it was the latter, then we should use my assumption to fill in that little gap 🤪
#3- a disturbing thought…but NOT entirely true. Bodies DECOMPOSE after all, depending on how long ago the body was buried, there might be NOTHING left…you CAN’T ‘Upgrade’ what simply ISN’T there. Notice how the grave doesn’t mention WHEN the Ponds passed away, it just implies that they lived long happy lives together in whatever time they landed…they could have been there for nearly 100 years by that point for all we know.
Before Amy and Rory became Cybermen in their graves, they also became The Master for a while. That was explicitly confirmed in The End of Time special.
(Daleks move slowly along the street. One of them suddenly stops. The others turn and look at the one who stopped.) Dalek Supreme: Why have you discontinued your approach? Explain! Dalek 2: There is an obstruction. A body. (Other Daleks lower their eye stalks.) Dalek Supreme: What is THAT? (Captain Jack Harkness appears with a big gun.) Captain Jack: The Silence. (Jack fires his weapon, destroying the Daleks.) Captain Jack: Ahh, the silence… Sounds so nice.
Here's a scary thought, when zombies are mentioned, what if they actually don't appear as dead to those around them. Its literally that you can tell because they're cold to the touch.
I have to say the thirteen doctor killing a Tardis is not totally accurate as she used a chameleon circuit and time lord technology bigger on the inside doesn’t make it a Tardis! What was collapsed was just a box. The part that makes it a Tardis is the time travel ability and we didn’t see that it had that ability. Everything else in this video is horrifying! Thank for the nightmares.😂
the pete 1 i think it was explained in the episode that as soon as pete dies everything goes back to normal and all the things that happened bc rose saved pete is reversed back to him dying to a hit and run
Certainly there must have been limits on who the cybermen could re-animate. I can't believe bodies that were dead for 100 years could have enough organic brain material left to be re-animated, sure you could animate the skeleton, but who the person was probably didn't enter into it. I always thought it only re-animated recently dead people, 10 years dead or less. IMO
@@plantainsame2049 Wasn't the consciousness separate from the body? I didn't think they could "easily" go back. And if there is not organic material left to go back to, then I don't think it matters if your consciousness is still around, without meat to put it into, you are dead and Rory and Amy were LONG LONG Dead.
@@kelvington4182 First off, no They weren't they were only in there Like 30s at most, and they were sent back to the 40s. They would have probably died around the Eighties are nineties And second that's where the robot parts come in
@@plantainsame2049 They were sent back to 1938 so they probably died in the 1980's. No meat survived for 40 years. :) But it's nice we are having such a polite discussion of this! We must be the adults in the room! LOL
@@kelvington4182 Yes yes they fucking Would Google the The human life Lifespan in the modern era Yeah, a person in the forties would have died in the eighties But amy and rory still had the bodies of people From twenty twelve
Of course the Doctor knows about River Song. Its literally a major plot point at the end of the episode. He (present Doctor) didnt know, but the Doctor knew. That's why he was able to save her. The Doctor prepared for it when he gave her his sonic.
For the one with the TARDIS. 12 said best “Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones, but you have to choose” 13 had an Invasion of Deleks on earth and a MASSIVE TARGET on her head so she had the only thing the Deleks would attack her and her own TARDIS. She didn’t have a Huge Choice in this one Especially with the one guy ratting her out and ruining her plans she had very little options
5:53 A big problem with this one is that we know the Doctor is also familiar with Earth's pop culture, so it's entirely possible he was simply goofing about - as he usually does. It's also important to note that when meeting with things that people call ghosts, witches, werewolves, mummies, and vampires, the Doctor always seemed to look for another explanation as to what hey were. Pretty much every time he found that it was something alien and/or technological that he later recognized. That's not to say actual zombies don't exist in the Whoverse, but at least with that statement it seems like it could have been made in jest.
Love the series. Am a definite Whovian. I don't get one small, but strange and sad detail. On Rory and Amy's tombstone, Rory's name includes his middle name Arthur - which was not a story point. But Amy's doesn't even include "Pond." As she is always called Pond, and they are both often called "the Ponds," it was sad to see Amy's signature identity erased. It wasn't necessary (yes, early in the last century women were still considered their husband's property and were branded with his name, much the same as enslaved humans were often branded with their owner's last name - and yes, this is the history of those naming practices - ownership), but the show could still have included Pond.
Number 1 really puts more emphasis on Eleven's line in...Power of Three, I think it was? Maybe a different episode, when he drops Amy and Rory home and Amy wants to keep travelling with him, and he goes "What's the alternative, me standing over your grave?"
Speaking of knowing their about deaths, did any doctor grieve Sarah Jane's passing? Elisabeth Sladen was my favorite companion. Would've been a good episode with flash backs. I am glad that she was featured with David Tennant for one more adventure with the doctor, but it broke my heart when I heard of her death.
I wonder whether forgetting the Silence actually stops when they’re dead. But that would also be a shock because now there’s this alien body that wasn’t there before.
Jackie knows about the TARDIS and lives with Rose and a living version of her father in another universe. I bet they tell that story over Christmas dinner each year
@@MinimalistTheatre333 I know. But that this would happen to a former companion of the Doctor out of billion bodies in the Earth is a really big coincidence. Unless Scotland's ground is generally known for such conservations, of course.
Technically you'd trip over a silence, see the corpse, freak out and then when you turn around forget all about it so everyone could totally be tripping over them all the time.
4:47 "How is nobody tripping over random things they can't see all the time, I smell plot hole." It's really not, people do see them and I'm sure they bury them or at least dispose of the bodies properly they just forget doing it.
The bodies of the silence...when we trip over nothing it's their corpses.
You can be cast into the time vortex for that. 😭😭😭😭😭😭
See, that's what I think; a lady at work just stumbled while walking down the hallway a few days ago and now I relate that to unseen Silence bodies in various states of decay.
I figured that with humans now programmed to kill them, the Silence got the heck out of Dodge at first chance.
Well... that's a disturbing thought!
Champion reply! 👏🙌💙💙💯
(I’m totally blaming every time I stumble on ‘The Silence’ from now on. Lol)
I like to think that the Doctor saying the Brigadier was meant to die in bed was less about him seeing into his friend's future and more something he would wish for any of us. Not to die a traumatic, explosive death but a peaceful one.
I was thinking the same thing.
@@ringozeitgeist Yep.
Exactly
Then again, during 11's run, the Brigadier did indeed die peacefully. Not said implicitly, but implied... peacefully at home (likely in his sleep).
I've always seen it that way. The Seventh Doctor was full of things like that! And, of course, Unlimited Rice Pudding, etc., etc.!
The Brigadier becoming a Cyberman was not only mentioned, it was a fairly significant plot point in the episode.
Also Amy and Rory could have very well been cremated
@@SirZeu Or alkaline hydrolysed.
@@SirZeucremated, and then Given a headstone at a grave plot in the graveyard The Doctor sees? 😅
@@SamanthaS92 Well for example in Germany there's something called "Friedhofszwang" where you are forced to have a grave even when cremated.
@@SamanthaS92 yes? very common where i live. both my grandparent are buried like that.
Once again, I have to point out, not everyone was brought back as a Cyberman! A TINY portion of the dead were. Kate said so herself. Every site was active, but in any cemetary, only a small number were actually rising. Yes, Missy was planning on bringing them all back, but Danny and Twelve thwarted her before she got the chance. Yes, Amy and Rory could have been made into Cybermen, and either way a digital version of them was put on the Nethersphere, but NOT everybody rose again. There's a solid 99% chance they never rose
Omg thanks so much i hope that they didnt that would be to sad 😢😢
I like to believe that at least Rory did, just to add 1 more to list of times Rory died. At this point he might be a Timelord
I had forgotten that Amy and Rory would be in the nethersphere. They could produce an amazing DW short about their final moments as the hard drive was shut down. Perhaps they even met Danny, and were somehow involved in his decision to save a child rather than himself.
@@pepe-zj6cnwhy?
In short: I don't think that Amy and Rory were transformed to Cybermen.
In long: Sit down, take a cup of tea, we are going deep in *takes a deep breath*
"Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" is a window in time that we can't define and which I will ignore. In the end it would add one or two years to the result. Source is mainly wikipedia.
First of all we establishe the year Amy and Rory died.
Amy meets the doctor as a seven-year old girl (in "The Eleventh Hour"). 5 minutes later or 12 years I guess, "Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey", she is 19 years old (7 + 12 = 19). This is in her kissogram phase. After the doctor test rides his new Tardis Amy got 2 years more in the waiting game (19 + 2 = 21) and is about to marry Rory.
After a little bit time traveling with the doctor and Rory finally waiting 2000 years for his girlfriend in a Pandorica-Box to arrive and the reset of the whole universe.
"Okay, kid. This is where it gets complicated.". I would suggest that the age didn't change much, so Amy is still 21.
Some time goes by with Amy and Rory traveling with the doctor, "Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey", (honeymoon, birth of Melody Pond, 2 Amy's in quarantine). He lets them live a normal life, until they meet again 2 years gone by (21 + 2 = 23)(in "The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe").
After their divorce in "Asylum of the Daleks", they both get together and Amy hints that the doctor is for 10 years in their both lives. This can be defined at two starting dates, the first one would be the time when the doctor meets Rory for the first time in "The Eleventh Hour" or the time where Rory travels with Amy and the doctor together. I choose the first date, which would result in Amy being a few years younger, so (19 + 10 = 29). Rory is said to be 31 years old at the time of "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship".
Now to the hard part. In "The Angels Take Manhattan" Amy and Rory were send back in time. According to the book which Amy wrote in the 1930s, the time she arrived would be 1925-1939 (this is a guess). 1946 they adopted their son. Amy died at the age of 87 and Rory at the age of 82.
When Amy died at the age of 87 and was around 29 when she was send back in time, she would live around 58 years from the 1930s (87 - 29 = 58).
1925 + 58 = 1983
1930 + 58 = 1988
1939 + 58 = 1997 (1 year after her birth according to an other source)
1946 + 58 = 2004
When Rory died at the age of 82 and was around 31 when he was send back in time, he would live around 51 years from the 1930s (82 - 31 = 51).
1925 + 51 = 1976
1930 + 51 = 1981
1939 + 51 = 1990
1946 + 51 = 2097
Let's assume it was 1939 when they arrived, both would be dead by 1998. R.I.P you both.
Secondly we state the date Brigadier Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart died. Don't worry, it will be a short summary.
According "The Wedding of River Song" he died 2011.
Now that we have some points in time, we can see if Amy and Rory could be Cybermens in "Death in Heaven".
We know that Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart became a Cybermen, that means Missy has to be arround 2011 to collect the mind of the people who are about to die.
To collect Amy and Rory, Missy had to be in the time before 1998. Which would mean that she did travel in time and did set this all up before Harold Saxon. But when Sason died, would he not also be collected and uploaded? But that would cause a time paradox with Missy living.
An other point is the brain that a Cybermen needs, without the brain a Cybermen is nothing more than a robot. So only recently passed away could be transformed to a Cybermen after the rain of "Cyberpollen".
My last point why Amy and Rory are not transformed to Cybermen is a combination of the previous ones. Amy and Rory died in Manhatten (tombstones), Missy had to be at that time to set up the upload and conversion to Cybermen, this combination does not realy work out. It's more likely that they both did not became Cybermen.
*exhales*
A concerning factoid about TARDIS’s-alongside the whole being living thinking beings-is that Time Lords are quite utilitarian with their treatment of them. New Types of TARDIS were being pumped out every few centuries leading up to the Time War, and most Time Lords would choose to upgrade and abandon their previous capsule once they had the option of a better one. The bond between TARDIS and it’s pilots is described as being very intimate, so it’s the equivalent of getting a mew dog and paying attention only to that one and putting the old one to pasture. While it’s still alive and fairly young. TARDIS’s have potential lifespans of thousands of years, though usually they’d live only for a few hundred before being replaced and decommissioned.
Another thing-TARDIS personalities being more developed is mentioned at times to be a fault, due to “improper maintenance”. The reason the Doctor’s TARDIS acts anything like it does, is not only because of it’s advanced age compared to the newer models, but because the Doctor hasn’t been taking “proper” care of it for the better part of two millennia.
And he keeps leaving the handbrake on!
There's also the slightly inconvenient fact that TARDIS's are supposed to be escape capsules and the Doctor's TARDIS is doing things it wasn't even designed to do. That poor old girl has been pinging all over the universe for millennia, she deserves a break. Definitely not to be crushed to death!
@@ModelsExInferis Don’t forget they are research vessel as well! Though it depends on the particular TARDIS. Some were better suited to transportation, others research, and a small handful dedicated to warfare-mainly the types developed during the Time War, such as the War Spire Type-94 and the absolutely horrifying Time Dreadnought Type 105.
I’m surprised at this point without any true maintenance on his craft she hasn’t finally buckled down. Considering the Shipyard that made her is long gone, spare parts aren’t exactly common anymore…
And she was already in for maintenance when he stole her!
With the new models, they may have removed the living side and kept only the machine side to avoid potential drift on the part of the consciousness of each old TARDIS.
@@mathisbiaujout5858not Maybe it is Like that.
Get mentioned in one of the Audios If im right.
The old ones have to much impect and free will, a Point that Time Lords don't Like so they Change parts of it.
The Doctor T-40 TARDIS already was a Pretty old one as He stole her, getting mentioned as Museum Piece or Scrap so she definitly has a free will.
Clara told him to Take her since that, their was nothing Bad at her, but the free will and newer Generations get her Out of Order.
For the doctor she is perfect since she predict where are People in need an bring him their.
The Master TARDIS for Exemple was as He First steal it a Typ-42, as He Take the Name "The Master" He already switched her and use a Typ-45.
So we dunno what Generation exactly the one destroyed was and If it had a high Personality and bioparts or was already more mechanic
I don’t think the Doctor’s comment to the Brigadier was meant as him knowing how the general would die. Rather it was meant as a lament over the Doctor’s hope that the man would live to a ripe old age and die in his sleep.
He probably looked him up in one of his trips to the future.
@@HariSeldon913If so, why was he visibly devastated during Matt Smith's tenure to find out he had died?
Agree. It was a lament, not a knowledge statement.
Agreed, I have heard that phrase or something similar in so many books and movies especially those about war.
I always thought the young lady in Gridlock who wanted to forget her parents was the daughter of the couple who died in the prologue.
Considering what we know about commerce it's safe to assume that the forget drug only works temporarily, so that customers have an incentive to buy again and agin.
@@Wonzling0815 I wouldn't say "safe to assume", but certainly possible.
You can see the Silence's bodies. You can even carry them out of the building. You just forget about them as soon as you look away.
What if you look away but have a live feed camera on them? You've looked away but your perception of them wasn't interrupted.
@@SakariWolf13 Interesting thought. After all it is lore that the recording of them works, even if you do not remember them afterwards.
The problem with the silence even without video cameras everywhere is that it would be virtually impossible for them to operate within crowds of people as there is always someone looking at the strange figure in the suit.
I somewhat disagree with #1. His statement of dying in bed could refer to the notion that The Brig should have stayed retired and died, peacefully, in his sleep.
Good ol' brigadier kept going for a long time tbf
His appearance in the Sarah Jane adventures was a joy
Indo agree that it was probably a wish for his friend to be retired and peaceful but it hits harder knowing that's how he passed within the show
Another factor in Eight's refusal to wear robes is that the Master put on traditional Gallifreyan robes and regalia before attempting to destroy his soul and steal his recently regenerated body. That would leave a bit of a resentment to be sure.
We forget that Eight DECIDED to become the War Doctor.
Barely. He was pushed into it.
and he had already died at that point
I think that was stupid nothing against John Hurt but not to have 8th Doctor in 50th was a mistake
@@davidcrazyrides It was originally suppose to have been Eccelston in the 50th but he turned it down. So, Moffatt had to think of something else and, since the Doctor at that time still had a regeneration left, the War Doctor was born.
@@ronaldnelson6692 yes know but it easy to work the 8th Doctor in there at some part at least we got the 4th doctor in though
"sometime are the things that we don't see..." And Billie Piper appears in the scene where she screamed at a tennis ball, representing a monster that she couldn't actually see...
If ever there were a video to show to someone to say, "This is why you should watch this channel" - here it is. The writing was on point, amusing and thought provoking. The editing was... well done, just well done. I smiled quite a few times just at what I was seeing onscreen.
And the presentation was so natural I thought you were speaking from the heart rather than reading a script. I've often said that my favorite actors are my favorites because I couldn't tell when they were acting. In this video, I couldn't tell.
So, if that thing with the video games is true, I am a mass murderer. Although unless a doctor (Timelord or not) can figure out a way to reverse whatever is wrong with my hand, the future for pixelated lifeforms looks a bit brighter.
If all the corpses in history were converted to Cybermen, and you believe in the idea of past lives, that's got some interesting implications. I'm around 78% on the believing side (memories I can't account for and all that), and if I've been kicking around as long as I think I have, I probably make up about 5% of the Cyberarmy myself. Sobering thought.
"Certain friends" - The Doctor definitely knows when at least some of his closest companions will die. In the case of River, that was the whole point. It was the basis of their entire relationship. That's how Moffat wrote her: The closest companion the Doctor would ever have was the one whose fate he knew from the moment they met. Doctor Who is often a light-hearted show, being after all a kids show at heart, but scattered in amongst the mirth are some truly, exquisitely, heartbreakingly, beautiful moments (three "hearts" in one sentence; top that). And no one did it better than Moffat, all to a Murray Gold score that could tear your soul right out, and that is a hill I'd be willing to die on, were such a thing possible.
P.S. they only let me give the video one "like".
I always took it for granted that the events in Father's Day were effectively an alternative timeline caused by Rose saving Pete. And that when that timeline was aborted by Pete reversing that decision, the participants would forget everything that had happened (because it now hadn't) and the existiing narrative would resume.
Except that in The Parting of the Ways, Rose specifically brought up the fact that there was a "blonde girl" with him when he died, and that that girl was her. And Jackie didn't dispute it.
@@ealeana3569 I think that this was after the anomaly had been corrected meaning that Pete died when and where he was supposed to. The fact that there was now a mysterious blonde girl with him when he died didn't need to be erased or changed back to the exact original version.
@@stevesm4 Yes, but, in the original timeline, Jackie told Rose, "I only wish there'd been someone there for him" (when he died). The fact that Rose ended up being there is different than the original and shows that there was a slight change to the original timeline. I only mentioned it because Rose makes a point of referencing it when she's trying to convince her mother that she needs to get back to the doctor at the end of the season.
That episode kills me cause she risked everything for her father to be alive again I’m so glad they had the best outcome in the in the finale ep with the rose
part from Micky lol
One mega mystery - the mysterious beast of midnight.
An entity that was never seen, what makes it more terrifying, it was never really defeated. All they defeated was simply a vessel, and its still out there
And we still don't know, who's Gus.
4:50 What, you've never stumbled as you're walking for no "real" reason?
Are you sure you didn't just trip over something that WAS there that you can't remember what it was?
My wife and my oldest are both very good at locating the bodies of dead Silences.
@@DneilB007 lol!
The silence are not invisible. If you are looking in their direction, you will see them. Even if you aren't looking where you are going, after you trip, you will more than likely look back to see what you tripped over, then you would see them.
(I am sorry for taking it too seriously and spoiling the joke, but you are not the only one who made the joke.)
The video made more than one ridiculous claim, the whole idea that we wouldn't notice dead bodies lying around was just one of them. Sure, we would forget when we turn away, but not while we are looking at them. And wouldn't at least UNIT be noticing the bodies and doing something about them, as well as whoever is doing the killing?
I have been watching WhoCulture for more than a year and have to say that Ellie's articles are a joy and thought provoking. Thanks for all of the hard work!
Thank you for watching!
I feel like the "You were supposed to die in bed" line was more of an innocent, "You deserved a quiet death in your sleep" kind of statement.
Every time you throw a ball backwards in Wii Sports Bowling, everyone can feel it
2:40
Another interesting question would be if 8's most significant change in outfit can be linked to the regeneration from 13 to 14 where the clothes change as well. If the Doctors subconciousness can manifest different clothes that break away from what is expected... Why not IRL?
The Doctors not all wear the same robe : 7 already diversifies by not wearing the dotted fabrique. 8ths wardrobe stands out the most. Moreso, while wearing the same or similar robes, 3:36 I think the notion that 1, 5, 6 and 7 have the same body is 'rubbish'. Along with their faces, they all have different posture as well.
Looking back on the complete scene, notice how first 1 holds his lapels, 6 moves his hands down and rests them on his legs, in which pose the Doctor remains throughout the following shape shifts. Including 8. It is only jumbled up a bit during a quick shift to 1 later, were he has his hands back up again.
It's the same person, different incarnations that are not all in uniform.
Colin earned the nickname " The Electric Doctor " because of the *GARISH* outfits that they made him wear. All he needed was a big red nose and clown makeup along with a colorful wig.
I've never thought about all the dead companions being revived as Cybermen in that episode. Now it's all I'll think about when watching it. Thanks, Ellie.
Presumably Sarah Jane would be included in that?
I also feel that no 8 not wearing robes is more of a play on him being different from the rest as he was a solo tv movie and had the claims of being half human. He's more unique due to these circumstances so will always be the odd one out
I didn't know whether the half - human bit was canon or became accepted as such, or the production people wrote that in just to make him relatable.
@DanielAppleton-lr9eq It was written in because of the US TV finance. The execs didn't want a 100% alien. Same with Mr Spock in Star Trek.
The Paul McGann Doctor should never have been accepted into canon. That film was just rubbish, an insult to fans and to all the great talent that went into the show over the decades since it began.
Nope, the 7th Doctor DIDN'T specifically know when Alistair's demise was. The reaction, and subsequent results of that knowledge, were key in Smith's Doctor deciding to face his own fixed point fate. This is NOT a case of him putting off visiting his friend because Lethbridge-Stewart got old. He genuinely was shocked when he made that call. Seven was speaking metaphorically. As in "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away..."
Personally I always liked the Tardis fact revealed in one of the books, specifically the one detailing his death( too many years, don't remember the title ), that the Doctor's Tardis *_is_* the Doctor. They may have changed canon by now but originally the Doctor stole his Tardis from a museum, as who could use time machines was extremely regulated, where it was on display as an "antique" time machine that supposedly no longer functioned yet for some reason reacted to the Doctor there by allowing him to start his adventures. The book reveals at the end that as the Doctor came to the end of his cycle of regenerations and the Tardis had just enough energy left for one more jump through time he traveled back to the museum long before he first saw the Tardis there, set up the display plate and then used the last of his life force to recharge the Tardis so his younger self could find and use it. This explains why the Tardis appeared to have a will of its own at times( appearing and disappearing by itself, jumping to "wrong" times etc) whereas other "Tardisi" such as the Master's were just machines incapable of independent action and seemed oddly connected to the Doctor( "now where is that blasted box?" appears behind him like it's pranking him ), because unlike other time machines it was powered by a time lord's life force and specifically the Doctor's. Granted this was long before the episode mentioned in this video that stated all time machines are alive and I'm sure not considered canon now though personally I like this explanation much more.
It might still be canon. Even with the Timeless Child reveal, the Doctor still had the same Tardis as always. Possibly several lifetimes before the First Doctor stole her from the workshop.
There's another one of the books, "Blood Heat" I think, where Seven loses his TARDIS in a tar pit, but he was in an alternate timeline where the Silurians killed Three, and he takes his TARDIS.
(I read that book like 25 years ago and can still remember that. Not where I left my keys an hour ago.)
@@andreacook7431Hell, if you get an hour you're doing better than me. I forget what I went downstairs for by the time I get there!
when writing a comment above I decided that the plural of TARDIS should be TARDIS, the same as with jedi! It's easier.
Thank you to the video editor for posting a clip of Shaun of the Dead because, ever since I first watched DW, I knew I recognized Penelope Wilton (the actress who played Harriet Jones) but I could never place it and low and behold it was Shaun of the Dead this whole time!
Moffat loves to take mundane occurences and give them horrific meanings. So whenever we seem to trip over nothing, we've tripped over the body of a Silence.
Also I'm pretty sure the Fourth Doctor was speaking metaphorically when he was talking about zombies.
I'm sorry, but unless you are walking around in the dark or wearing a blindfold, you would see a dead Silence if you were looking in their direction, so unless you intentionally step on/over dead bodies, that doesn't make any sense, and you would certainly see it when you look back to see what you tripped over if you do walk over bodies.
When the 4th doctor is talking about zombies, he could just be talking about all the various zombie-like things that are out there, making a sort of blanket statement about Gelth, water zombies, etc
As well as being Cybermen, wouldn't all the dead companions have been turned into clones of The Master too? I seem to recall Wilfred asking if they were changed in their graves and The Doctor responds "I'm sorry" implying that they did change.
and all the former companions who were alive on earth were changed into the master, like mickey, martha, and sarah jane
All those companions and the Brigadier was the only one who could resist having his mind taken over? The Doctor should have had at least a dozen Cyber-allies.
the only one that was at that graveyard
But they were dead and in graves. So what, the Master had a lot of dead clones burried six feet under. How exactly does it matter? It was undone by Rassilon in the end. It might be a "nice detail", but nothing more than that. Stuff with Amy and Rory being turned into Cybermen and coming out of their graves is a little bit more disturbing than lots of dead copies of the Master burried under earth.
At least that got reversed afterwards, though.
I really miss River Song.
Ellie strongly agrees.
My favorite companion of the New Era.
We actually saw the Brigadier as a Cyberman he was even still himself enough to not only save his own daughter but salute the Doctor who finally saluted him back
Presumably you can see the Silence's bodies when your looking at them & their abilities might not work when they're dead.
Wouldn't someone notice all those weird alien bodies lying around?
Anyone remember the X files episode "je souhaite"? An invisble man gets run over by a car, ends up on the sidewalk and a day later causes a cyclist to comically crash into an empty spot with buzzing flies. Imagine that happening all over the world unless people look directly at the bodies :D
The Doctor's point was that the Brig had been retired for years, he was supposed to die peacefully, not in combat.
Out of all of these, somehow the Doctor killing a TARDIS hits pretty hard
Pretty certain the number 1 is meant to be a statement that the doctor was hoping the brigadier would stay alive and healthy and die of old age peacefully in bed like most people would like to go. Not a statment of him knowing his future specifically. Otherwise wouldnt the doctor prevent so many more of his companions fates like clara, the ponds, bill potts?
That first point about video game characters was made by a simulated Doctor who was themselves "real" by the standards of that imperfect simulation (which was one if many), so what he said was true for _that_ simulated reality, not necessarily for the prime reality of the show.
yeah, largely because that’s just not what a video game is. Any AI at play in a video game is one or two “directors” shuffling models around, playing audio files, and otherwise creating the illusion that there are other conscious beings in this virtual world. if video games had consciousness, they would not be experiencing you murdering them, they’d be experiencing… being a video game. They would know that their purpose was to manage the illusory scene. So a GTA game wouldn’t be going “oh my god, i’m about to get run over ahhhh” it would be going “ok, he’s going on a rampage. let’s play those terrified running animations, cue the scream sounds, yes good, now bring in the cops, ooh nice dodge, he’s getting better at this. now let’s spawn a tank, but not too near, he’s only at four stars yet” etc
@@chexfan2000 More "Wreck-It Ralph" than "TRON"
@@DavidBeddard exactly, although even that movie portrayed each character as having their own POV, when in reality that would be an absurd waste of system resources. it’s still to this day incredibly rare to have working mirrors in a video games, for instance, since it requires rendering a second POV or faking that with an entirely separate space. the game world only exists in the way in appears on the screen while it’s on the screen! black mirror is very guilty of pushing this nonsense, and it always drives me insane because no matter how much tech advances, there will always be a much better use for processing power than creating conscious beings and making them experience a full range of sensory input, especially if said beings regularly have massive existential crises and in at least one case, attack and kill or at least permanently disable the guy playing the game. there will just never be any reason for that to be something a computer would be used for
@@chexfan2000 That kind of argument could have been made for many things that humans have ended up doing anyway throughout history. Just because something is a bad idea doesn't mean it won't be done.
@@DavidBeddard it’s not just a bad idea, it’s an unbelievably complicated undertaking that would benefit precisely nobody when nearly all other available paths to narrative and experiential fidelity offer less resistance. You can’t just make shit up and use “well, people said other shit was unlikely, and what i said sounds unlikely, so it’s probably going to happen” as proof that it will happen. Just because some people
said we’d never walk on the moon doesn’t mean we WILL strap rockets to the moon and fly it around going “WHEEEEE”. one was a difficult undertaking, the other is a nonsensical and pointless undertaking that would
cause problems and enrich nobody and improve nothing.
It goes from 8 (8th Doctor not wearing robes) to 6 (Time Lord soldiers' deaths sent to their families). Was there a number 7?
Hmm that’s odd, could’ve sworn we put one in there…?
Oh you... 😉
@@WhoCulture Ok where did you get the perception filter?
@@BoredPodcasterSome blue fella, think his name was Dorium Maldovar…? Haven’t heard from him in a while, hope he’s doing ok!
IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII
IIIII IIIII IIIII III
I didn’t know doctor who could make me feel bad for the gta npc’s💀
Same bro 😭💀
GTA? Man, I played lots of Prototype, I probably killed half of the New York population...
The last entry was such a stretch.
It was a metaphoric way of saying 'You deserved better' or anything to that effect. He would rather his friend have died peacefully rather than in a violent way. It doesn't mean the Doctor can see into people's deaths.
Maybe the tripping over the silence is when you trip over nothing and are like wait why did I trip?
Oh someone already said this oops
My suspicion about the forget drug, is that its affects are temporary, probably lasting as long as the medication in the patch lasts. It would make sense, as the people peddling the mood drugs would not want the market to dry up.
10:30 during a library episode, one of the characters there knew the doctor from a much older version of himself and was hanging out with her throughout time because she died there so he gave her some crazy memories knowing she would die upon his "first" meeting with her. I consider it as counting since he saw her die and then went back to hang out with her.
That would be River Song.
Her story is one of the most heart wrenching.
This video is overthinking the reason why Paul McGann’s Doctor isn’t wearing a robe.
I was recently at a Comic Con where Sylvester McCoy explained that McGann couldn’t be there for filming so he was shot somewhere else other than the Doctor Who studio and they weren’t able to get a robe to him (I’m assuming he already had his costume for some reason). They had to account for this in the script by having a brief jokey remark about it.
I also think that too much is being read into The Brigadier’s death here. I don’t think the 7th Doctor was necessary speaking from a personal knowledge of how The Brigadier was going to die at all. More that was a statement of how he didn’t think he would end up dying at the hands of The Destroyer and that this wasn’t the death he’d wanted for his old friend. It’s not that he knew exactly how the Brigadier would die.
A fan called Steven Ricks custom made a costume for him which is what he wears in the episode and at many convention appearances. He also made Peter Davison's costume for the recent Power of the Doctor episode.
4:47 What do you think you're REALLY tripping over when you think you're just tripping over your own feet......
4:28 So now you know why you went into the kitchen and immediately forgot why you were there…
My ADHD explained!
You misunderstand the Doctor's speech about him dying in bed. If he KNEW the Brigidier dies in bed, then he wouldn't believe him dead here. No, he was referring to the fact that Brigidier Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart had been retired, then pulled out of retirement for the incident in Battlefield. The Doctor had been referring to their earlier conversations regarding him and his retirement, his life with Doris, and so on. It had nothing to do with pre-knowledge.
Also, the Doctor HATES endings, and therefore does not read the ending of anyone or anything.
7:20 a better version of Fathers Day, and a much darker one at that, was done with the recent Torchwood audio drama “Disco.”
A lot of the same elements but having Ianto realize that to put the future right he needs to turn his day into a drug/alcohol addicted, cold, and often horrible person has a lot more emotion behind it.
At the end of 'Forest of the Dead' when the 'saved' people are teleported from the library it's never mentioned again that the library planet has been under quarantine for 100 years, as described in 'Silence in the Library '. The loved ones of the people leaving are most likely dead, their wives/husbands etc - even their children would now be old and on the point of death.
Don't forget, you remember anything to do with Silents when you lay eyes on them again. They memory-proof themselves, they cannot be remembered when unseen but when you see a Silent, you remember any previous encounters with them.
Which means that everyone who kills a Silent most likely disposes of the corpse immediately.
Or the first time they tripped over them.
One thing you don't think about is all the times the doctor has visited companions after Regeneration and they didn't even know, we wouldn't have known. Could be just to say hello, open a door, a word of encouragement.
problem with the silence is you will see the corpse and probably get people to help remove them, whats more likely is the morgue is just full of millions of dead silence bodies that no one can remember long enough to finish an autopsy.
I don't concider 13 canon. Her actions and story arc definatly go against the doctors lore. Doctors wife. Timeless child destroyed galifreys legacy... ect.
“I DoNt CoNsIdER …” boi stfu you aren’t writing this I’m sure your story would be sterile, gag inducing, and boring. Send me your ao3 and prove my wrong you wanker
loved all the sean clips, one of my fav films
For the Gridlock one, I think once they took the drug patches off their memories would return.
Fan fact about number 1
According to the audio story "a death in the family " the 7th doctor said that he has a record of the date and place of death of many of his companions/friends
The fact death in the doctor who universe is just a black void and you are CONSCIOUS every second for eternity is gut wrenchingly terrifying, so is the flip side miracle day
Anyone who dies goes there, I do wander if that is THE void the daleks hid in, good or bad, all end up there living an eternal afterlife of nothingness or maybe the disembodied consciousness of a time lord known as "death" to stalk you
Suddunly being experimented on doesn't feel quite so bad in this universe
9. I thought the forget made them forget about the motorway and how everyone on the first lane were killed by the Macra.
8. Big Finish have released an audio series where classic Doctors (so far, every Doctor 3-8 have been used at least once) encountering enemies introduced onscreen in the revived series. In it's second volume, The Fifth Doctor encountered some Racnoss who were being hunted by Time Lords. He actually saved a Racnoss queen from said Time Lords, whose ways The Doctor even outright said he had long since abandoned due to what they are.
3. An offscreen source claimed that Adric ended up in the Nethersphere and Missy took great delight in the thought of having him converted. I have wondered if any other good people who knew The Doctor and ended up there also resisted the control over them (including Vicki, another companion of The Doctor's who had also died at that point after she stayed behind in Ancient Greece, and Katarina and Sara Kingdom, the first companions The Doctor lost in battle).
1. People here have thought that when The Doctor told the Brigadier that, he was referring to how he saw he was supposed to die when he did not timeline wise. All the same, all of The Doctors have been stated as having attended his funeral.
4:48 Idk about anyone else but I've seemingly tripped on thin air plenty of times before...and now I'm considering how many Silence corpses we may have interacted with without even realizing/remembering lol.
IMO, the Weeping Angels are the most frightening villains of all.
I don't think the soldiers of Galifrey are Time Lords as mentioned in the video at 4m 56s, part six. As far as I am aware, Time Lord is a rank, not a race. The soldiers are Galifreyan, but may not have been elevated to the status of a Time Lord. This would be important in respect to the recording of one of their deaths - given a Time Lord would regenerate (assuming they have not reached their 13th incarnation), making their ‘death’ less traumatic for their family.
From the dialogue of Morbius in The Brain of Morbius, time lords also have ranks. I can't remember the exact words he said but it was when he scoffed at the 4th Doctor's challenge to a battle of minds; he said something like, "I am a time lord of the 16th rank! What are you?" Great story for many reasons.
I love the Fathers day episode :0 I wish they would bring the reapers back. That means Tosh Owen and Ianto where brought back as Cybermen as well that'd be hard for Jack :0
I remember picking up that Amy and Rory had probably been "upgraded." That whole plotline was sick.
04:32 bro about to ask aliens to bring "89P13" back to him
Four shadows to the pyramids of Mars and the Empire of Death. Perfect Timing to bring back Romana
The TARDISes can survive the Void. Even the earliest models can do that, and there's an Eleventh Doctor story about that iirc.
A nice theory is that the TARDIS 13 sends to the Void is fished out by the Division and given to the Division Doctors (at this time a future model and thus the best available for the Timeless Child), and that's why it's a police box. After Division wipes the Doctor's mind, the TARDIS is sent to repairs, but is now old and nobody claims it, so it just sits there until the First Doctor finds it again. And since the TARDIS claims she stole the Doctor, it's also possible that there might not have been a Clara at all influencing his choice, but the TARDIS herself.
Another reason that the 8th Doctor was different than the other past doctors in that scene besides not wearing robes is that he's "half human on his mother's side" and they're not! 😜
Ooo, good episode you guys! Very thought provoking 😊
2 things. 1. Graveyard Cybermen. The Doctor is no doubt looking at it from what might feel like a cold perspective but Amy, Rory and any other companion that has passed are gone. They aren't their remains. Even if those bodies somehow came back with the biological parts that made them up, it still wouldn't be them. It's as one should be if a loved one became a zombie or assimilated by the borg. They are no longer who they were, they are gone. Just because the weapon looks like a loved one doesn't make it any less a weapon that's intention is to kill you. Look at they way 12 was with Bill in Twice Upon a Time. Right up till the end, they kept saying that she isn't the real Bill Potts. Yes, our memories make us who we are but from the Doctor's perspective, Bill is really no more than a fancy video recorder. She doesn't feel, look or smell the same and the Doctor notices things like that. It's not that they don't want to accept it, it's only that when you are working on coming to terms with the loss of someone, especially in the way Bill died, to have them come back only to see them go away again is hard and the Doctor doesn't like endings. Yes, sometimes you can reverse things but as the Doctor has said, life is rarely a fairytale.
2. The Death of a TARDIS. I thought this was a cold take on the situation where 13 sacrifices a TARDIS only because you should know that the Doctor would never do such a thing. There's a lot we don't get to see in a TV series but for me, I felt like it wasn't necessary to show the Doctor accepting the TARDIS's decision to sacrifice itself because we know who the Doctor is. I don't know the reason for not showing it as it would have been a great way to remind us viewers about the sentience of those TARDIS's. I know the Doctor has gone against their promise before but at 13's point, they have grown a lot since those bad decisions. Now, with that being said, I don't know if Chris Chibnall meant for it to be taken this way or if it was a careless error on his part. If it was the latter, then we should use my assumption to fill in that little gap 🤪
I think dead Silent corpses is the explanation in the Doctor Who Universe to random tripping and rolled ankles
#3- a disturbing thought…but NOT entirely true. Bodies DECOMPOSE after all, depending on how long ago the body was buried, there might be NOTHING left…you CAN’T ‘Upgrade’ what simply ISN’T there. Notice how the grave doesn’t mention WHEN the Ponds passed away, it just implies that they lived long happy lives together in whatever time they landed…they could have been there for nearly 100 years by that point for all we know.
Before Amy and Rory became Cybermen in their graves, they also became The Master for a while. That was explicitly confirmed in The End of Time special.
How many times have you 'tripped over thin air'? Or seen others do the same thing? You found a Silent corpse, and just didn't remember it.
(Daleks move slowly along the street. One of them suddenly stops. The others turn and look at the one who stopped.)
Dalek Supreme: Why have you discontinued your approach? Explain!
Dalek 2: There is an obstruction. A body.
(Other Daleks lower their eye stalks.)
Dalek Supreme: What is THAT?
(Captain Jack Harkness appears with a big gun.)
Captain Jack: The Silence.
(Jack fires his weapon, destroying the Daleks.)
Captain Jack: Ahh, the silence… Sounds so nice.
3:20 what episode is this? Or what is it from?
Here's a scary thought, when zombies are mentioned, what if they actually don't appear as dead to those around them. Its literally that you can tell because they're cold to the touch.
I have to say the thirteen doctor killing a Tardis is not totally accurate as she used a chameleon circuit and time lord technology bigger on the inside doesn’t make it a Tardis! What was collapsed was just a box. The part that makes it a Tardis is the time travel ability and we didn’t see that it had that ability. Everything else in this video is horrifying! Thank for the nightmares.😂
As far as the Motorway goes, those crab creatures killed lots of ppl by destroying their ships before the Doctor could release the motorway
the pete 1 i think it was explained in the episode that as soon as pete dies everything goes back to normal and all the things that happened bc rose saved pete is reversed back to him dying to a hit and run
Certainly there must have been limits on who the cybermen could re-animate. I can't believe bodies that were dead for 100 years could have enough organic brain material left to be re-animated, sure you could animate the skeleton, but who the person was probably didn't enter into it. I always thought it only re-animated recently dead people, 10 years dead or less. IMO
You literally see them saving their minds.
That's what the nether Sphere was The saved consciousness of the dead
@@plantainsame2049 Wasn't the consciousness separate from the body? I didn't think they could "easily" go back. And if there is not organic material left to go back to, then I don't think it matters if your consciousness is still around, without meat to put it into, you are dead and Rory and Amy were LONG LONG Dead.
@@kelvington4182 First off, no They weren't they were only in there Like 30s at most, and they were sent back to the 40s.
They would have probably died around the Eighties are nineties
And second that's where the robot parts come in
@@plantainsame2049 They were sent back to 1938 so they probably died in the 1980's. No meat survived for 40 years. :) But it's nice we are having such a polite discussion of this! We must be the adults in the room! LOL
@@kelvington4182 Yes yes they fucking Would Google the The human life Lifespan in the modern era
Yeah, a person in the forties would have died in the eighties
But amy and rory still had the bodies of people From twenty twelve
Maybe when you trip over your own feet or choke on air. You are walking over or eating dead silence.
Obviously the silence wouldn’t stay on earth when every single human starts trying to kill them.
4.50 that's what you trip over when you think you tripped over your on feet.
Of course the Doctor knows about River Song. Its literally a major plot point at the end of the episode. He (present Doctor) didnt know, but the Doctor knew. That's why he was able to save her. The Doctor prepared for it when he gave her his sonic.
We had a "Zombie" Captain Cook in Greatest show in the Galaxy
For the one with the TARDIS. 12 said best “Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones, but you have to choose” 13 had an Invasion of Deleks on earth and a MASSIVE TARGET on her head so she had the only thing the Deleks would attack her and her own TARDIS. She didn’t have a Huge Choice in this one Especially with the one guy ratting her out and ruining her plans she had very little options
5:53 A big problem with this one is that we know the Doctor is also familiar with Earth's pop culture, so it's entirely possible he was simply goofing about - as he usually does.
It's also important to note that when meeting with things that people call ghosts, witches, werewolves, mummies, and vampires, the Doctor always seemed to look for another explanation as to what hey were. Pretty much every time he found that it was something alien and/or technological that he later recognized.
That's not to say actual zombies don't exist in the Whoverse, but at least with that statement it seems like it could have been made in jest.
Love the series. Am a definite Whovian. I don't get one small, but strange and sad detail. On Rory and Amy's tombstone, Rory's name includes his middle name Arthur - which was not a story point. But Amy's doesn't even include "Pond." As she is always called Pond, and they are both often called "the Ponds," it was sad to see Amy's signature identity erased. It wasn't necessary (yes, early in the last century women were still considered their husband's property and were branded with his name, much the same as enslaved humans were often branded with their owner's last name - and yes, this is the history of those naming practices - ownership), but the show could still have included Pond.
Number 1 really puts more emphasis on Eleven's line in...Power of Three, I think it was? Maybe a different episode, when he drops Amy and Rory home and Amy wants to keep travelling with him, and he goes "What's the alternative, me standing over your grave?"
Speaking of knowing their about deaths, did any doctor grieve Sarah Jane's passing? Elisabeth Sladen was my favorite companion. Would've been a good episode with flash backs. I am glad that she was featured with David Tennant for one more adventure with the doctor, but it broke my heart when I heard of her death.
We don't talk about Thirteen; thanks for giving us another reason.
One thing I've always wondered is if the TARDIS can't go back to New York to save Ammie and Rory, then go to New Jersey and take a cab?.
Regarding the forget drug I suspect it's temporary in function or there wouldn't be much of a market.
I wonder whether forgetting the Silence actually stops when they’re dead. But that would also be a shock because now there’s this alien body that wasn’t there before.
Jackie knows about the TARDIS and lives with Rose and a living version of her father in another universe. I bet they tell that story over Christmas dinner each year
It is very well implied that the soldier that “killed” Missy in that episode was indeed the Brigadier!
gridlock is the only eposide to ever make me cry.
I love Paul McGann's version of The Doctor.
❤💜💗💜💗💜💗💜
Well, in Jamie's case there might not have been enough corpse left after all the years he's been dead at that time.
Maybe. But bodies have been preserved for millennia. True, it was in the desert or in bogs, but they have been around longer.
@@MinimalistTheatre333 I know. But that this would happen to a former companion of the Doctor out of billion bodies in the Earth is a really big coincidence. Unless Scotland's ground is generally known for such conservations, of course.
Technically you'd trip over a silence, see the corpse, freak out and then when you turn around forget all about it so everyone could totally be tripping over them all the time.
4:48 you ever trip over nothing?
You got a new subscriber for use of Shaun of the Dead clips
4:47 "How is nobody tripping over random things they can't see all the time, I smell plot hole." It's really not, people do see them and I'm sure they bury them or at least dispose of the bodies properly they just forget doing it.