Cyberpunk 2077 - Turns Out Johnny Was LYING to Us the WHOLE TIME...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2022
- Johnny Silverhand is a big fat liar. And in this video, we’re going to expose all his deception and misinformation that he shares with V throughout Cyberpunk 2077. We’ll be doing a deep dive into Cyberpunk lorebooks and comparing those events with what we learn from Johnny in the game. The discrepancies may shock you.
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If Johnny's memories are false, it doesn't mean that Johnny's lying about them. It means that Johnny's memories are false. There's no way Johnny can lie about his memories if he never tells us about them to begin with. Instead, we experienced them how he remembered them.
The more likely explanation is that Arasaka altered his memories, possibly as a method of interrogation within Mikoshi.
That's kinda what I figured as well. My personal hypothesis is that Saburo wanted to know to what extent an engram could be modified. I wouldn't be surprised if Arasaka wound up sending both Silverhand and Blackhand through Soulkiller, stripping Morgan of his memories of the attack and implanting them into Silverhand just to analyze how that type of editing could affect an engram. Important information as a limited version of the Relic Biochip was slated to be available to the mega-wealthy who would have questions about it.
@@timothygiese6726 I was under the impression that blackhand got away but went into hiding after the tower incident
I didn't think about Arasaka altering the memories, considering how Johnny is a narcissist, I just assumed that was how Johnny himself remembered it
You're just overthinking it. The reason why his memories are like this it is because he is just a really self-centered bastard who believes that he was important somehow.
The rabbit hole goes deeper damn didn’t even consider his memories were false or altered lol now I fr can’t wait for phantom liberty
Johnny lied to us? *Pretends to be shocked*
Lmao priceless
@soft_dicc I guess so.
*Surprised Pikachu Face*
@@magno172 FACTS
@soft_dicc Nah otherwise there would be glitches in his memories, small discrepancies. Everything he told V actually happened in the lore, but Johnny didnt tell V everything, he told V all he needed to know. You get more info from other people but its still not everything.
Makes absolute sense for someone like Jonny remembering things like that, although it`s not the truth. He`s narcistic but also fighting against a sense of guilt and regret. It`s even hinted at during the story. Alt says so clearly, that his memory is blurred and bended. Only towards the end of the story, he slowly starts to admit his major fuck ups. It`s quiet brilliant, that the flashbacks are told the way they are tbh. Memory is never objective, especially when it`s coupled with guilt.
Exactly. Which doesn’t make it a “lie” as Big Dan puts it. Simply unreliable.
@@EdgeofAwesome I think he’s just saw that video about the same topic that came out 2 weeks ago so named the video after it
I 100% agree to all of this but what if, in a more sinister light, Arasaka also experimented with splicing memories together and used Johnny and Morgan's as a project.
@@tourguidebarbie0 Possible, yeah. But I ask myself if that`s even neccessary. Throw a character like Jonny into a mind prison for half a century. Into total soltitude in a place, where the minds only activity can be to think about stuff. You think anyone would stay sane under those circumstances? And have a sane memory of the past? Highly doubt that tbh. The concept of Mikoshi itself is pure mind torture, if you think about it.
@@Eruthian of course it's not Necessary but neither is storing anyone in Mikoshi for funsies. I mean why did they store Jackie in there is its for Necessity? I agree with you if his engram is just been sitting collecting dust for 50s totally makes sense. I was just having a random thought out loud lol
In one of the endings Alt directly shows that she can "read" Johnny's engram like a piece of code and know what he will say before he voices it. Also during first meeting Alt directly says that Johnny's memory "bears no resemblance to the truth" and it was he who altered it.
Are you sure that’s what she says? Remembering back, I think she said “What you saw was Johnny’s subjective view of what happened”. And that’s most likely because he did not know he killed Alt when he disconnected her.
@@J0eMega Yup. She says that directly after your quote, and it bears more meaning then just "he did not know".
@@1Shapic1 it does bear more meaning, as that’s the difference between lying and simply being wrong lol
Also when you buy samurai records near jig jig street, you can hear a legend being told in arasaka academy that for those who don't study well a half split man will come - which is clearly a resemblance to lore accurate silverhand's death
@@J0eMega i think johnny wasnt lying but he was thinking he is right
Silver hand constantly tells V: “don’t trust corpo, don’t do their bidding “ because in simplest terms he did the same and it cost him his soul, cost him the woman he loved.
and why he tries to tell you not to bring the Aldecados in the mix. No risk, no rewards. Best ending by far.
@@flamethrower82 because he tells V “You don’t want panams people on your conscience, made the same mistake myself once”
in Johny's mind Militech was a limited time partnership but he blames them because the Militech VTOL flew off abandoning him at Arasaka tower where he was captured in the retcon, it pissed him off and that is why he says no Corpos
@@fangslore9988 actually in the book material he dies in Arasaka tower with Smasher cutting him in half with a shotgun, Blackburn and smasher face off and get the better of eachother before the tower exploded burying smasher and blackhand in the rubble, it’s possible Johnny was given the assumption he was abandoned by Militech and survived enough to be soul killed as a interrogation tactic by Arasaka
@@lucianoromero777 thats just it the source book can be retconned
Anyone that egotistical will absolutely see and think it was that way. He's not lying, he is just delusional. Its that kind of confidence in yourself that you need to be a rockstar.
I love how everyone thinks johnny only cares about himself when he literally wants to save the world from mega corporations.
@@ghostburgers4284 It's just his way of trying to distract himself from what a massive vapid asshole he is. He doesn't care about anyone else, let alone himself. It's part of his incredible narcisisim.
@@ghostburgers4284Johnny himself near the end admits to his faults lmao he literally changes as a person after being an engram
@@kidkodex7696 you still do not understand a narcissist.
They are almost another species of human.
You can’t make a narcissist care about anyone but themselves and you can’t change them.
Johnny wants to save the human race.
Boooooooo
Johnny didn't lie. In one mission he asks you what the worst thing about being a construct is, the answer being that they can overwrite your personality, that the corporations can take your memories and make you someone else. johnny is a program modified to condition v into violence against arasaka. ive seen other people mention ads being replaced with conditioning but i havent seen it personally (look up "the only good corpo is a dead corpo" its one of the lines you can see posts talking about it) why did arasaka make this and what made yorinobu pick this construct in particular to take. i like that they leave you with burning unanswered questions at the end of the game that are simply above your pay grade
I'm not familiar with the older lore. Do we know for sure who set off the nuke? I remember hearing rumours in the game that some even said Arasaka had set it off themselves. Had me thinking in the first play-through that maybe they rewrote some of Johnny's memories to set the blame on him rather than themselves should the need have arisen.
@@Reoh0z johnny was the b team aka distraction main objective was info retrieval by Morgan black hand, who's actually the one who fought Adam smasher not Johnny, Morgan also planted the bombs after retrieval failed and the whole thing was a mission from militech to steal soul killer when it failed they nuked arasaka to slow em down
Yeah I think Johnny was a scapegoat bc he was an easy target and that’s the thing that I keep coming back to. Why put Johnny on the construct? Some have said Spider Murphy did it but how did Arasaka get their hands on it and if It was Yorinobu that could be it but that explanation has some holes in it…
"what made yorinobu pick this construct in particular to take" this one is easy - he didn't pick Johnny, NetWatch did, they needed Johnny to lure Alt from beyond the Blackwall and Yorinobu made a deal with them.
@@Eyestudio11 there's a lot of details like this that many people miss, they're (more or less) hidden in the game itself but easily found if you take the time to read and look around
I knew Johnny's memories were false... His gun during the memory sequence is WAY more powerful than when you get it later on in the story. Lol.
Why do I increasingly get the feeling that the Johny we meet in the game isn't Johny Silverhand himself, but an AI composite made from the memory shards from both Johny Silverhand's corpse, and memories extracted during torture of Morgan Blackhand?
Because now you're getting it?
That's literally explained to you in the game.
The way I see it, that is the core idea of the game... AI copy of a human mind does not equal a copy of a person soul/personality. Humans and machines are different. If you try to fuse them too much - cyberpsychosis kicks in. If you try to replace one with the other, you only get the one and not the other...
*surprised pikachu face*
@@zyfryth it's a reason it's called soul killer
Additionaly the engram can be altered, Johnny even talked about it as his greatest fear. Furthermore the relic was damaged almost to the point of not being viable before Jackie slotted it. Some other evidence of this is Johnny not being able to remember why Caliente smells familiar, even though Kerry says they went there all the time.
A lot here to say, so sorry for the lengthy comment.
I'm gonna disagree with the notion that Johnny was lying to us intentionally, at least when it comes to important shit. Beyond the first time you meet him, it was made painfully apparent that Johnny has more to gain working with V than against him. Sure, his past, and the fact he goes off on a sort of joyride once V gives him the reins for a bit (which is still hecka funny though), does make it apparent that trusting him outright would be a challenge, but he has his own reasons for wanting to help out in what limited ways he could.
Like that first time he gets to 'live' again. Sure, he goes way too far, but being stuck inside of a prison for half a decade, and suddenly now having new life, yeah you'd probably want to enjoy that moment of freedom you got. The important thing I want to note though is that he did all that to gather information.. Probably last minute, sure, but he didn't just fuck around for the sake of it. ...Mostly. ..It was bloody funny though, not gonna lie.
And judging from his reaction when you first meet him, he seemed to assume that V was some Arasaka goon, or some shit that strongly implies that he was only just aware of what happened to him now, and is piecing it all together. So him trying to kill you initially, only to realise that's a terrible idea, pretty reasonable.
Speaking of the chip, Arasaka no doubt would've done some dabbling with his Engram. I don't think we'll ever truly understand what being an Engram might entail, as what information we do get, it could be vague bullshit too. But essentially, the sequence in the tower? It could either be parts of Johnny's actual memories that even he isn't privy to anymore, or more terrifyingly, Arasaka tampered with those memories and recollections, so that everything we see from back then could even just be manufactured, and poor Johnny, or what's left of him, wouldn't be any the wiser, as that's the only kind of memories he has.
His constant rants about Arasaka being out for your soul, might have some truth to them.
Alternatively, it could be oversights and shit from CDPR's crunches, rewrites, and other bullshit that didn't offer enough time to correct and properly iron out. We all know about the hot mess that was Cyberpunk 2077, so it wouldn't be surprising if some shit we see isn't fitting to what was in the books. They either deviated, or just couldn't iron out any discrepancies themselves before it got shipped out.
Johnny is a narcissist and an asshole, sure, and he's definitely capable of lying. But I don't think he'd intentionally lie to V on some serious shit that might be critical for trying to save their life. Johnny might very well be dead if V dies, so regardless of weither or not he truly cares for them, he has incentive to try and get them to Mikoshi.
And it's when Johnny gives you his old tags, that it makes it painfully apparent what very likely are his true intentions. Sure, through V, he gets to see Arasaka burn for what they did to him, or just because he fucking hates them. But I don't think that by that point in the story, he would push V to the side for a second chance at life.
The ending for Johnny's reincarnation strongly indicates that he had perhaps made his peace by that point, and was willing to move on. He might be grateful for life again, but V's passing really sticks with him. Even as we have the option during one potential ending mission, to take control as Johnny, and fuck over V, I don't believe that would be something Johnny would do at that point, rather we, the players, made him do that.
Hell, the only time he'll abandon you intentionally, I believe, is if you side with Arasaka. And considering the shit they perhaps did to him, it's entirely justified. He had your back for a good while, and you sell your soul to the devil in hopes of salvation.
Johnny Silverhand is an interesting character alright. You're given every reason to distrust this lost soul that's now haunting you, the devil whispering in your ears, but after some point, you start to understand him, and it becomes clear after some time that he's a sack of shit, but he cares for V to some extent. Of course, all that could be either genuine, or the shit Arasaka did to his Engram. It's up to you weither or not you can trust him, but given all the context of Arasaka doing shady shit like Soulkiller and shit, and his vindication against Arasaka, some of his insight holds some weight, true or otherwise.
Long ass comment, but I really wanted to share my thoughts, as I don't think the implication that he would straight up lie to V when it comes down to some important things they need to hear from him, is a fair one. It's really either CDPR fucking up on key details or intentionally diverging from the source material for the Rule of Cool, or it's Araska dabbling with his memories, to the point that Johnny, or rather the Engram that is Johnny, wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The truth could've been manipulated, so to speak, but I believe that Johnny does try to tell the truth when it needs to be said.
Anyhow, thanks to coming to my Ted Talk. I hate disliking videos generally, but I feel like this video intentionally ignores certain things entirely, which I think is pretty shitty. Not one of your better ones, have to admit. You could've done much better, dude.
oh man your likes is at 100 I cant break that now
@@naminatorsalamander2670 do it you coward :V
I agree. People are too quick to hate Silverhand even though he grew to care for V and even helped her, after Search and destroy, and gave advice on every step. I just assumed cdpr wasn't following the lore and wanted to do their own thing.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up AI Alt, when you meet her with the voodoo boys you tell her he tried to save her she very specifically tells you that his memories are basically corrupted and he remembers things how he -chooses- to see them but not how they actually are
Which is weird honestly because at the beginning of the game they tell u he isn't real... Shit he tells you he isn't real himself
I feel like V was just a nut job going through it
Bit like CDPR when they said Cyberpunk works perfectly on older Gen consoles, The Truth being , it doesn't even work well on Now Gen Consoles, instead they wanted a share of the console market and shipped it to console players . This was the biggest , (You've been Cyberpunked the world has Ever Seen).
@@Rabbit-vv8ng No - they said they were "surprised by how well the games ran", or something similar. If their original expectation was that the game would brick your console, then yes, they told the truth ;)
@@Rabbit-vv8ngLaunch was disastrous but hass been a while that the game runs good
@@giftmccoy6085 what? So Hellman, and rogue are schitzo’s too since they know of silver hands existence?
This may be a crazy theory, but what if Cyberpunk 2077 has it's own canon? Even if Johnny lied or does remember things differently, nobody mentions Blackhand when talking about the Arasaka Incident. Which is kinda weird given the fact that Blackhand in the lorebooks is the #1 Solo, at least Rogue or Alt should have mentioned him at some point.
he is mentioned by jackie at the very beginning of the game
@@tormentor22852077 literally has its own canon
no, it is canon but the books were retconned plain and simple. Retcons were bound to happen at some point, the devs and the owners of Cyberpunk probably though "maybe we should make a few changes to explain johny's capture" and the retconned the lore
@borsalinokizaru9862 that and johnny's ragtag group was but 1 small team in the efforts against Arasaka and Johnny blames militech for the VTOL from leaving him behind so yeah its no wonder why he keeps saying the corpo bad whenever he gets the chance
Picture it like this - you're an egotistical rockerboy that loves to aggrandize. Even without his memories being screwed up from Mikoshi/the Shard/whatever, Johnny's pride alone would be enough for him to completely omit the fact he was working *for* Militech *under* Blackhand.. especially to a young and impressionable V, who he's trying to recruit for another Arasaka raid. I think leaving out those details would make Johnny's case easier to present.
Plus there's like 3 or 4 shards in the game that talk exclusively about Blackhand. Claire, the bartender at the Afterlife even talks about him. Hell there's even an WNS News segment about him if you're clever enough to catch it.
There was no retconning, there is no alternative canon. It all fits, you just need to actually read and listen.
Ngl, it's not hard to see. Johnny is both an Engram and has been screwed with repeatedly while turning him into a special biochip, then there's the fact even he doesnt seem to fully understand what he says.
I actually brought up this topic in a way on the steam forums, asking why Johnny was on the chip at all, and another thread asking about if anyone else though Rogue seemed to just let Johnny drop in the chopper scene. And the general consensus of responses suggest that Spider Murphy, upon finding Johnny's corpse cut in half from Smasher, basically engram'd him right there. And to protect the rest of the team from reprisals, intentionally altered his memories of events. Editing out Blackhand, and other details. Others have also suggested that on top of that, that the way Johnny remembers things is also a result of being an incomplete copy of Johnny, and the faulty engram psyche just filling in holes, and rewriting events to try and soothe his ego and grief. And thinking about it from the viewpoint of a fractured memory of a fractured man, stuck in digital limbo for 50 years, floating in and out of awareness....yeah I can kind of see them remembering things in a way that made Johnny feel more central to events. Most feel that he's not intentionally LYING to V, but that he's simply an Unreliable Narrator by design. That his own memories are faulty, not that he's being deceptive.
My issue with this, and a reason that I think a lot of this is a result of last minute story editing, is that almost nobody in the story who actually knew Johnny, bring it up. Like at several points, V speaks to people who WERE THERE, about events, using data ONLY pulled from his own braindives with Johnny, or what the engram directly tells him. And pretty much NONE of them say anything like "Wait...wut? The fuck are you talking about? That's not what happened." At no time, does the game, provide a contradictory interpretation of events, to make V question the validity of what he's being told. And I think that is very much an artifact of the editing.
Mike Ponds has flat out said that nothing is a retcon, that the events of CP 2077 are in synch with the timeline of the previous canon events in the TTRPGs. He posted a comment on social media flat out saying it, saying something like "We wouldn't have spent all this damn time making sure the timelines match up, to just retcon shit."
So yeah it's a weird thing, and I like the idea behind it, my only real issue is that none of this information is IN THE GAME. It's all based on being familiar with extra source material, from outside the game. And if it was minor details that I had to know the TTRPG to appreciate, I'd be fine. But this is an INTEGRAL part of the main story's narrative thread! This should be in the game to SOME degree.
I did wonder how he became an engram if he died during the attack since you need the Soulkiller to do it, which was in the possession of Arasaka, so it’s all really messy and impossible to tell how everything went down.
Spider Murphy engraming him…but how would she possess the soulkiller to do it? Even if that was the case, how did Johnny’s engram end up with Arasaka? Ye hell knows what is true.
@@Kristers_K pretty sure in the source book Spider had stolen Soul killer (her part of that mission) just before Adam Smasher showed up. There’s this video that does a deep lore dive that talks about how things line up. Basically, Spider teals Soul Killer, Johnny gets cut in half, she engrams him as he’s dying, they escape and the nuke goes off. According to the lore his body is then found by a Borg firefighter who’s a massive fan of his and sticks his body and gun into a nuke case that happened to be nearby which preserves his remains (Relic still in head). She then spent the next 20ish years protecting his remains and gathering his belongs (like his car wink wink). Apparently in Cyberpunk Red the group of mercs who are the MCs deliver said case (and other things) to a close friend of hers. The guy theories that between then and 2077 Adam Smasher and Greyson killed her for Arasaka and they used Johnny to recreate the Soul Killer. This is how Grayson got ahold of Johnny’s gun and car, as well as his line about how Johnny died. He wasn’t at Arasaka tower that night, but he saw the frozen remains of Johnny.
God I hope they explore what really happened that night in the DLC, like have an old Spider Murphy show up and be horrified that she actually did keep Johnny alive, but left him behind
@@Jack-kb5nb Interesting. Im not familiar with any source material or any of Mike Pondsmith’s work, Cyberpunk 2077 was the first time i found out about the universe actually and i explored the game in depth, but this still all new information to me.
So if i understood it right Spider Murphy is dead by the time of 2077? Damn shame, seems like such a cool character and would be interesting to see her in game.
I would assume it’s enough correct details that the realization it’s Jonny is bigger than the “well that’s not 100% how that happened” idk enough about the lore to say that with certainty but I feel like it’s not implausible
What if.. he didn't lie. What if the engram was Johnny and Morgan? A shared prison. Only when the chip was damaged Morgan got rewrote.
That would be actually cool but i don't see why would they use only one chip instead of two
Perhaps when Jackie first put on the chip he got Morgan Blackhand. And then V got Johnny.
@@rumenoff974 Not likely since as far as we know the Relic will only activate when placed on an Innert (dead) host and since Jackie gives you the chip before dying it would have been innactive then.
Both CD;PR and Mike Pondsmith both have confirmed that Morgan Blackhand doesn't appear in 2077 nor are there plans to include him in 2077.
@@alejandrovargas8538 Because they wanted to create Johngan Greyhand
CDPR have obviously altered the source material because other characters make reference to events as they happened in Johnny's memories. First example that comes to mind is Rogue grabbing V's hand when boarding the AV at the end, saying, "not this time." Which is in reference to the fact that "last time" Johnny tried mounting an aerial vehicle with Rogue, Smasher shot it and Johnny fell back to the roof, slipping out of Rogue's grip. There's a bunch more evidence throughout the game, if you look for it.
Jonny wasn't the person that fell from the chopper at the tower. You're missing some major point of this.
Yeah I feel like CDPR just cut Morgan Blackhand out of the story, I know pondsmith says the source material correlates with CP77 but I think CDPR took some creative liberties
Not to mention in the source material Yorinobu Arasaka is dead!
@@mews8812 no he's saying that cdpr changed who fell.
@@liamratliff3824 lol. I apparenrly misread part of that.
when you meet the construct of Alt she tells you Johnny's memory's may not be what they seem
I wasn't privy to the tabletop lore, but I was always suspicious of Johnny Silver hands accounts of history. He's also a narcissist, and they rarely tell the truth lol
But in Johnny's case, he's lying to himself more than to V. He actually believes what he's saying. Which falls in line with him being a narcissist. He believes too much in his own legend- he's the hero of his own story. Most people are.
Johnny may or may not be lying, but if I recall correctly (ironic, haha), there's a few things altering Johnny's memories. His own biases, 50 years in Mikoshi and minor brain damage caused by radiation. Note the discrepancies like the existence of Mantis blades and the absence of Morgan Blackhand.
Yup. Doesn’t make it a “lie” as Big Dan puts it. Simply unreliable. 👍🏼
But if Johnny is "killed by Adam Smasher" as you suggest how did Arasaka made such a perfect an engram of him? Considering when Jackie dies they are only able to make a jukebox of some of his memories?
This is exactly why I say that it's better to take the new events as canon because Pondsmith was involved in the writing. the story this youtuber pulls from is decades old, and from the Original version of the Cyberpunk TTRPG. Cyberpunk Red has since released, and many of the old story elements like Samurai's songs, and some stories have been re-written by Mike Pondsmith to blend well with CDPR's game.
Well Jackies engram was running on a arosaka computer and holographic form. Jonny silver hand runs on a full biological brain with pre software that it can pull data from to work properly aka V's body and memories.
@@Suzy9MM Except, in the new versions of Never Fade Away and Fall of the Towers contains the majority of the same facts and details, even adding new ones. What about RED says that Smasher didn't kill Johnny? It actually includes that Spider Murphy inserted the Soulkiller program into Silverhand directly after Smasher shot him, during his final moments alive. Hence why there is such a detailed engram, it was written while he was dying not when he had already been dead for a period of time...
Another fact is if you speak to Alt she reveales Johnny killed her but pulling the plug when she was in Mikoshi. Johnny however said he was there to rescue her and he didn't kill her. So his own memories lie to him.
Or he just didn't know that pulling the plug would do that.
@@rumenoff974 Yeah, or perhaps he thought that Alt already died at the hands of Arasaka so he unplugged her 'corpse'; not realizing that Alt was still in a deep dive.
In that case, in his own mind Johnny probably really was trying to save Alt. But he also did kill her, because pulling the plug caused her engram transfer to be incomplete, though he probably did not know that would happen. Two things can be true at once.
Not exactly, Johnny didn't know she'd already razed Arasaka's Data Fort from the inside and was minutes to seconds away from downloading herself back into her body and walking out whistling. He did what any edgerunner would do, is TAUGHT to do, when you think your netrunner is in the grip of black ICE-- pull the plug before their brain fries. 90% of the time that's the right move to make, because cutting the connection will dump them out of the matrix even if they can't jack out themselves because their avatar's been frozen or they're convulsing. the other 10% of the time the only reason it doesn't work is because their temporal lobes are already cooked well done.
How could he not know ripping that cord out would kill her? Lemme guess... he's too cool to read any sort of mission briefing.
Johnny's not lying to us, he's lying to himself
Thank you Big Dan! I have seen other videos on this topic but none that explain it as well as you! I'm excited to see if they elaborate on this in phantom liberty.
I think some of these discrepancies can be attributed to rewrites during a period of crunch at cdpr. There are numerous points in the main quest line that don't make a lot of sense, such as Takemura cautioning V to "be careful, you mock me too often" if you ride with him after meeting Oda. At that point you haven't had the chance to say much to him at all let alone mock him.
Im currently trying to prolong my gameplay and I'm at that part in his story. Thing is, because of the language barrier, his upbringing and how V comes off, you do mock him unintentionally. He's older too so he takes a lot of your jokes kinda bad. Like the way V replies to his texts come off as bugging.
Well V told him that its just an NC name when Takemura asked him about Jig Jig st. where I think he thought V is mocking coz everything about Takemura has to have a meaning.
Very true if you look up the very first gameplay demo they released in the radio the events of johnny silver hand died 1 year ago as opposed to 57 years ago. There's more stuff like that you can see around the gameplay footage. Something's were not meant to happen the way it happened in the current version of the game we got, but it had to change for crunch time. I'm guessing we were supposed to have a young rogue as a main cast too with a little bit of a different gang that we got in the final product.
@@Samurai-no4wu If you ever watched the first Witcher 3 demo you'll see that Dijkstra is meeting Geralt in an inn pointing him towards clues to where to find Ciri. If you play the game you know that doesn't happen and it doesn't make sense. CDPR mix things up in demos in ways different to how they go in the final game, possibly to avoid spoilers of what actually happens in the story.
Exactly must be cut content that didn’t make release
There isn't really any way to "lie" when an engram is made, it's just a copy of whatever's in there. Considering his personality, I think it's more likely that he just believes his own legend. We know that he was basically a nobody, because almost no one mentions him when they go on about all the greats, and those that did know him all just roll their eyes when he's mentioned. His "main character syndrome" is a pretty standard thing for the Rockerboy class.
I dont think nobodies get their own drink at the afterlife.
Nah he definitely wasn’t a nobody.
Great video! I made a video on the same topic a couple weeks ago and there's a lot to delve into on these specific points of time related to Silverhands memories. The cut after his initial encounter is when I believe Arasaka begins to edit his engram in Mikoshi. In order to properly interrogate him in soul prison. This is way later down the line however.
I don't think he's lying throughout the bulk of the game, he does genuinely believe that he's the most important person in Night City, his arc through the game is realising how small he really was and how he hurt the people that mattered most in the process.
What's more we're not experiencing his memories like they're recordings, and I think BDs prove it. If they were we wouldn't have player agency to move, fight, or interact with NPCs, but instead we play them just like we do as V. The memories are being relived as though they're happening to us, but they're also bleeding into V's mind at the same time, which in turn could be muddled with their understanding of the events, their view on Johnny, and what they would do in these situations, without even realising it.
he isnt lying he just cherry picks what memories he wants V to see, its all the bad times but none of the good times
There's a 3rd possibility.
Johnny's memories were altered by Arasaka when writing his engram.
Perhaps as a way to prevent information from being accurately disseminated or as part of a deal with Rogue.
4th possibility: the sourcebooks are lies and Arasaka propaganda
@@J0eMega 5th possibility: the sourcebooks are from decades ago and the story has been retconned with subsequent releases of the TTRPG and 2077.
Makes me wonder that if Johnny was killed, his soul-killer would've been a partial mess, what if Morgan Blackhand was used as a template using soul-killer but instead of fixing the problem areas as intended, the relic went rogue and overwrote the accounts of Morgan Blackhand as if it was Johnny's own life. This different perspective would explain how Johnny Silverhand tends to have a split-personality where he's acting like a punk one moment, but then has a respectful side and calmly walks through issues in the next moment, as if two minds are switching sides.
Alt even tells us that what we saw just before meeting her at the Blackwall is a fiction that Johnny created and played for himself over and over until it became the truth to him
To be frank, Johnny is the kind of guy you tell your kid to not associate with. He told you "his version" of the story, technically speaking, it's not lying.
Maybe it’s a problem with the copied memory’s, it’s Jonny but altered.
Maybe the memories of the engram were change enought to be the perfect bait for Alt as they wanted
This make a ton of sense, he was the perfect way to let her guard down so they could have a control program to run along side her or make her pacified.
If Johnny was killed before being thrown into Soulkiller, that means he'd be like Jackie: incomplete and partly inhuman. I wonder if they recovered Johnny *and* Saitan, and what we're working with is some amalgam of the two. Would explain why he has memories he was never a part of.
Personally I think they just changed events. There are other things that are changed from the source material as well regarding other characters and events
Johnny's definitely an unreliable narrator, but I always wondered something.
(spoilers ahead)
In Lizzy's storyline her boyfriend asks Arasaka's agent about "editing" the profile. Of course she says this is not possible, but then starts asking questions about what they wanted change implying perhaps unofficially it is possible. The Voodoo Boys certainly had no trouble sifting through memories to find specific engrams on Alt. That led me to consider perhaps Arasaka went in there and screwed around with Johnny's memories for their own nefarious purposes.
I don't know wtf I said to Kerry but I can't get anymore missions 😑
No Lizzy, no randy, no secret ending... I'm just stuck 😂
I feel we are missing something here. We know that the original concept for the Relic was that different personalities would be in there depending on your background. Maybe each personality would reveal a different account of things, and the player would have to play all three backgrounds to peice together the true account of things. But that all went out the window when they landed Keanu as the role of Silverhand.
What’s the source for this?? I wanna take a look at that, seems super interesting. I like knowing what concepts CDPRhad before the final product they made
Well boy, they have a sequel to make, I think we will find out then what actually is going on. I trust Mike when he says they matched everything up perfectly.
I noticed in his memories of the bombing, smasher shoots his arm off, but in the Interrogation it's intact. That was what tipped me off that his memories are unreliable.
I think it was morgan blackhand that was interrogated
This is something I go along with because when you read through some of the in-game lore some of it doesn't add up. I think Johnny just wanted to paint himself as the big hero/anti-hero who won the day and created memories to fool with V, that paint a better version of himself but then his memories could have been changed. It will be good to see what they add to Phantom Liberty I'm certainly excited.
Me too
And nothing to do with that was added, but you do get some good character moments with Johnny
Alt Cunningham told us as much when we. meet her. During the rescue Alt flashback we play Johnny’s memory of the events. Alt claims they are memories of Johnny’s altered versions of what happened but couldn’t be further from the truth.
BTW Pondsmith posted on the socials that blackhand is NOT in the expansion. But followed that up with who we do meet will blow our mind.. so.. we'll see I suppose.
Spider Murphy. She's been in hiding, changed her identity.
@@ScytheNoire This is what I'm thinking.
Maybe both Johnny's and Morgan's memory were somehow merged when making the biochip.
Edit* What if many of the individuals were spliced together into the biochip, and Johnny was just the template for which the memories were placed into. Maybe Arasaka was trying to compile info from all their memories so they could find stuff on Militech.
I agree it was multiple view points. Inside arosaka on the roof and when he is being interrogated. All seem like death scenes to me. Which one real? And around and round we go.
Congrats on 100k gotta update the intro to show the big # 💪🏼
I remember a gamer in a pickup game of Mass Effect 3 multiplayer who claimed that his videogaming abilities became godlike when he was high. Not surprisingly, the truth was anything but: the longer the match went on the less functional he was... and the greater his appraisal of his skills became. I will now point out that Johnny Silverhand was sky high during his bombing run on Arasaka, hence from his perspective the helicopter's automatic grenade launcher in the hands of Shaitan is ponderous and ineffective whereas in Johnny's it's fast-firing and deadly. This is also how I see the discrepancy between Johnny's memories of the Malorian and the gun's actual performance when we acquire it. Being tripped out of his mind has got to be coloring his memories.
I have a feeling alot of this will be unveiled in Phantom Liberty, or at least discussed.
Here’s hoping. I feel like the story was incomplete. Like there were still details missing
Its such a cool comment on today’s life, we don’t like corporation’s snakelike behavior but we still work for them and buy their stuff, we all want to fight the system yet we are the system because we need it to survive. This IP is 200iq, it’s so well thought out
I started a new playthrough today and your points about Thompson are super interesting; as you get on the chopper in Johnny's first memory, Rogue *literally speaks* to Thompson on the helicopter itself, showing that Thompson was along for the ride.
I wouldn't hold my breath about Blackhand. I remember reading that Mike Pondsmith told CDPR that he was "off the table" for whatever story they had in mind. Can't recall where.
One of the first things that V learns about Johnny is that he's got a huge ego. The man is a narcissist.. and narcissists tend to change stories around to make themselves look good. It was fairly easy to figure out that Arasaka really only wanted Alt, but Johnny's ego wouldn't let him accept that. Alt was a brilliant, slippery netrunner, whereas Johnny was just a pain in their ass.
My money is on the Johnny Engram being a mix of both Silverhand and Blackhand, both of whom bit it fighting Smasher. Chances are that they filled in the Silverhand engram which would have been post-mortem like Jackie's with bits and pieces of Blackhand's who is actually the dude who got dragged in front of Saburo, likely to see what they could accomplish with a Franken-engram. Yorunobu probably snatched it because a fusion of Silverhand and Blackhand would be the Arasaka boogeyman and the dude hates his dad and the company.
Morgan is nowhere to be found in 2077, CD;PR has said this, they left him out so that the original creator isn't anchored down by their game.
Nah morgan is lsnt in the game only reference is by Claire as he could be alive or dead no one knows he’s off the grid and has a few datashards on him some lore about him that’s all
Mike Pondsmith did confirm Johnny was a cyberpsycho. That could also explain the distorted memories.
I really like this channel. Other channels just play through with no explanation for anything. I like the fact that theres an explanation with Dan's play through.
Alt straight up confirms all this when you first meet her in cyberspace. I'm surprised you didn't include that in this video.
I think this video is useless because CDPR could just change some details in the story since it's Silverhand who is one of the main characters of the game, not Blackhand. And it's hard (if not impossible) to lie when someone sees your memories and you - theirs.
Read a few comments about Johnny misremembering events, My question is if these events were misremembered or if some of the Cyberpunk lore was rewritten for the game or just was never mentioned in game (like Morgan and Johnny blowing up the tower and working for mil tech on the job) As well as the outside sacrifice instead of the inside one. Did Johnny remember it going down this way or were it rewrites to the lore for the game’s dramatic effects?
Alt says johnny is an unreliable narrator so I'm inclined to believe that he's misremembering.
Is cdpr going by the lore books tho or are they retconning them?
Johnny can't lie cause we just experience his memory without his conscious
Exactly. His memories are wrong so he isn’t “lying” as Big Dan puts it. Simply unreliable.
Then again, CDP could have taken artistic freedom and changed some events, as you see in many adaptations. They had Mike Pondsmith helping them out, I think Mike knew that they change a few things here and there.
Yeah it's revealed by ALT that Johnny doesn't remember things right and that you can't trust the engram. Johnny even hints at this himself saying" they change you and you don't even know it", now why would they alter him like that and not use him as a weapon. I think the "chance" meeting of Saburo walking in just then as V and Jackie are stealing the chip isn't "just luck" and the whole thing is part of his plan. It's just way to convent.
I just discovered your amazing videos. Thank you for them. Cyberpunk 2077 is my favorite game, so far. And I have played many, many video games. I am so old I remember playing the home game system for Pong. That is how old school I am.
While Johnny's memories could have been altered by Saka and he may have lied to V, memories, even if you are not downloaded into a computer, are not to be relied on. This is why scientists use peer review because, like Johnny here, memories can be altered by our own wishes and our own perspective. Not to memtion they could have changed Johnny's background or history from the source material. There is much of Night City changed from the pen and paper RPG. That is enough rambling. Take care and thank you again for these great Cyberpunk 2077 videos.
I would like to add that the game keeps up with tiny details in the lore that don't matter, but not this... no way, it's not on purpose. Also, Jhonny was an engram for a long time, and he could have been modified to not remember Morgan for some reason.
Hopefully, the dlc shines some light on the grander picture, but I would prefer that some details stay fuzzy for the next game.
Remember, this Johnny we are talking to is an engram, not the actual Johnny who was there. Even though not on purpose, Soulkiller gives Johnny what he wants as it can repair V's body and force itself into V without the engram's permission. Basically fabricating memories which he thinks is the truth wouldn't be a surprise giving Johnny his ideal story. This is why even though Shaitan is a big of a guy he just gets shot off and Johnny gets to takeover gunning down multiple saka ninjas? Johnny's ego is too big wanting to be a hero in his story because if it ended as the way it should (shot by Smasher in half) it wouldn't be great for him, he wouldn't feel and be a legend. Because there is a real possibility that Johnny Silverhand isn't much of a legend anyway.
Someone who 'isnt much of a legend' doesnt get a drink at Afterlife.
While I have no doubt that Johnny lied and misremembered a lot... I also think that we're looking at retconning in play, and a lot of the events in the old materials are not canon to 2077 lore.
The memories are edited as Johnnie is an engram, just like V after Dex kills her/him.
Not only that, but Alt's AI straight up says, he's lying.
This, was looking for this. Thanks.
She said “what you saw was Johnny’s subjective view on what happened”. He probably didn’t know he killed her when he pulled the plug
Remember it's 2077 not 2020 so the storyline is going to be off the rails somewhat.
Also keep in mind that since they DIDN'T add Blackhand other than in passings which truly hurt my heart because he was the real deal in being a solo/corps pro, they also didn't focus on Spider Murphy as much because she was as good as Rache.
I think that was done on purpose, as they didn't want to dishonour the character by not doing it well. So it was easier to cut him out entirely. I mean, they kind of screwed Smasher up (but they thankfully gave him a boost with 2.0)
We can hear Thompson on comms when Johnny is in the helicopter during the 2023 attack on Arasaka Tower.
but it is confirmed, Alt said it during the voodoo mission, she said: what you saw was a twisted reality of Johnnys prespective, he fabricated the story and believed it himself. or something along those lines
He didn't lie or was deceptive. His memories were false.
This is due to his engram being damaged and who else knows what Arasaka did.
@@LaFonteCheVi It's entirely possible. Silverhand also seems to be a narcissist and a pathological liar. (He lies to you a lot in the course of the game.)
An interesting fact about memories is that you only remember them once, the first time in fact. After that when you think of that memory you're actually remembering the last time you remembered it. So memories change over time and can be drastically different from what actually happened if enough time has passed. So Johnny's memories being different than reality makes perfect sense to me. A character even mentions this in the game, I forget who. You're just remembering Johnny's version of his memories, not what actually happened.
except this is an electronic storage device, not a brain. with stored files, you can have perfect recall.
@@androth1502 that's true
@@androth1502 Except the chip only stores what was there originally.
If Johnny had been telling himself over and over that X happened Y way then thats the way he believes things happened, then thats whats going to be part of his digital upload to become a digital being.
A perfect recall needs to have a perfect basis, and the human mind is fallable and memories are not static.
Man that page from the roleplay book takes me back to being 14 again.
It is odd that Johnny remembers being tortured while he's alive in one piece in front of jorunobu all while he also remembers being bested by Adam smasher twice. Once inside and again on the roof. Both times he took some pretty heavy damage.
You mean Saburo
Silverhand lying isn't shocking, but some of those memories you see could've been altered by Arasaka, or a result of his own psychosis.
Blue-Eyes is not Blackhand, he's a proxy for someone or something else, likely the AI from NightCorp.
Blackhand, based on in-game news articles, is alive, in NC, and has been battling Lazerus agents.
I've been re-posting several of your videos on my Cyberpunk News site, very insightful and helpful to the community. Keep up the great work!
Since constructs or engrams may be altered, who knows if it was Yorinobu who messed with the memories, to create a main character hell bent on revenge on Arasaka as he wanted. Or possibly he wanted to be Johnny in a way which is why he did what he did. And worst when Devil ending happened and it all comes full circle that the one who got the relic caused him to become Arasaka himself, instead of destroying it to the ground like he wanted.
Idk if anyone has thought about the fact that maybe Johnny has bits and pieces of Morgan black hands memories because when Morgan was kill (again assuming he was) maybe smasher had destroyed his body too much to get all of Morgan’s memories. So when they tried to bring them both back we got an amalgamation of both Johnny and Morgan’s memories
Given Mike P. worked on this, I'm willing to bet it is a retcon. Possibly as a result of Keanu Reeves' popularity changing the direction of the whole story for extra Johnny Silverhand.
No it was to make Silverhand an unreliable narrator. Both CDPR and Mike Pondsmith agree that Johnny's memories aren't accurate to what actually happened.
Then why mention Blackhand at all? The flashback clearly merges him with Johnny, so they could just have removed that character from the lore.
One great thing ive seen teased out by this community is how unreliable Johnny's perspective is.
Dude got put into soul killer and has been essentially held in storage for 50 years, with who knows what kind of edits being made. Additionally, we have to wonder why Johnny's engram was taken by Yanoboru (bro i forgot his name).
Johnny just trying to roll with it but he has no idea whats happening.
That is why NOMAD path is the best, since they are honest where you couldnt find in the NIGHT CITY born
Johnny's memories aren't fake and he didn't lie. This is confirmed during a dialogue with Kerry when you first enter Kerry's villa. Kerry asks what did Johnny tell him before leaving and confirms it's the same thing that you experienced in the flashback.
Also is confirmed this "Silverhand" is not the real silverhand but someone manipulate his memories and his face on purpose. Making the whole thing more not coherent.
What a shame , the game is decent but nothing to compare with Witcher 3 , I barely remember silverhand etc
how the hell do you barely remember Johnny when you literally see him almost all the time through out the game lol
Is Witcher 3 even that good, I'm starting to think it's one of those games that are hyped, but can't back it up.
There’s actually a comment about Blackhands location by Rogue during the flight in. I just replayed the quest, it was an interesting notice.
Honestly, I think its more like Johnny lying to himself than to us, though obviously under the circumstances the distinction is blurry.
If Johny died before the helicopter scene why does Rogue, on the ending that includes her, grabs him before dropping from the helicopter and says smth like ''not this time''? Its like same scenario different outcome.
Even Alt tells us not all of Johnny’s memories are truth. We’re seeing them from his point of view. It’s how he sees himself
I hope it turns out that what we’re seeing from Johnny’s memories are a failed attempt at the false memories the secret organization that is controlling the Peralez’s had tried to do with Morgan Blackhand’s memories or engram in an attempt to keep him alive. But for reasons not clear, it morphs and changes the memories of Johnny rather than replace them with Blackhand’s, and Mr. Blue Eyes is the full realization of placing Blackhand’s memory or engram into a host via the now successful method. If that’s the basis for the add on to the game I’d be so pumped
Unreliable Narrative trope aside, can Construct Johnny fabricate or distort the memories V sees in game? I get that he could easily be lying about accounts he verbally relates to V, but memories?
its impossible for him to fabricate memories as he’s not able to he’s able to talk freely and act freely but Johnny can’t change the memories the only explanation is that the chip getting fried might’ve hurt the memories or that the chip was messed with before it got into V’s hands its even stated in the game Johnny and V are forced to watch each others memories for johnny he watches V and Jackie for V she or he watches Johnny and Rouge its not optional for either of them and johnny has spent years as an engram so that could also be a factor
Personally I believe part of the delusion is from his ego but also partly because of his death and soul killer also created blanks that he filled in himself to explain what happened.
Alt literally tells us Johnny is an unreliable narrator. Like, the game outright says it. It's not a shock if you even paid attention.
Also it doesn't mean he LIED to us, his mind was trapped and tortured for decades. And it's canon that Mikoshi can alter the engrams. So the memories could be distorted because of the sheer trauma and/or because Arasaka.
Johnny's memories tell us he is lying, and Thompson is the key in that regard. As you show in the video Johnny says he never worked with Thompson again after beating on him, in 2013, yet Thompson is in the helicopter to Saka tower in the 2023 memory whining about the collateral damage. As for Johnny escaping Smasher in the tower, the cutscene can lead one to believe that Rogue is the one to have saved Johnny. V sees Johnny firing at Smasher, the part from the book agrees with that much, but then it switches to Rogue running up the steps in front of Johnny after Spider Murphy has sealed the doors. It could be inferred that Rogue came back and gave Johnny enough covering fire to let him escape Smasher, even for only a few seconds.
A question I have about that scene on the roof of Saka tower is this. Smasher is carrying an HMG when he climbs to the roof after the helicopter has been hit by at least two rockets in quick succession (7:17-7:18), with an explosion from inside the helicopter behind Rogue just after Johnny is falling back to the roof. Who fired those rockets? Because it could not have been Smasher. The cyberarm rocket launcher does not fire and reload that fast, in 2077 at least, and Smasher had a different loadout for his when he took off Johnny's cyberarm. Once again, I am using real world to understand a video game, but why let Rogue live in 2023? Those two rockets, fired by whomever, should have been aimed inside the mainly stationary helicopter and killed everyone inside the compartment. This just shows the problems I have with the 2077 script. They did a terrific job considering how larger it was and I have no idea what had to be cut for whatever reason, but so much of it does not make sense to me, but as I said I am using the real-world experience to try and understand a video game which is a problem more with me not necessarily the script writers.
in the cutscene thompson is also in the chopper even though you dont see him. you hear him ask about the skullthumping and rogue has a quick go at hime.
19:19
Silverhand: nah, Soul killer is an urban legend
Thompson: THE SOUL KILLER, THE SOUL KILLER IS REAL!!!
What if V wasnt the only one he infected in those 50yrs in Mikoshi
Great video, just as good as when the channel LayedBackGamers released it 2 weeks ago... funny timing.
Funny thing, the scene where Saburo tells us or Johnny that the dead can’t lie. Makes me wonder was that scene a dive into the Johnny construct choosing to lie to go against arasaka again…or can constructs really lie? Like a lieing Ai is pretty sentient
I am a big fan of the game and I love your alternate takes. This was extra cool hearing the comparisons, cause I have never read any stuff from CP. Though I enjoyed the anime (Edgerunner) and I am not a big anime watcher. I just discovered your channel last week. Of course I subscribed and gave likes to everything I've watched so far.
"Johnny lied" as if he was telling something to you instead of having his worst memories nonconsensually introduced into someones brain
Yo Big Dan I recently fired up cp77 for my 4th play through and am enjoying scrolling your BDs to fill in the gaps between chipping in, thanks Choom 😂
I was a little bit confused about Adam Smasher-Johnny confrontation. Thanks to this video I finally understood all of the little things that didn't add up. The worst thing was, when I wanted to believe in his redemption arc I saw how manipulative still he is to Rouge. I saw that specific with Alt also. He even started to justify and glorify Rouge's death in order to get rid off guilt he felt. If he hadn't blamed her, she would have lived. Sorry, English is my second language.