Romance is a game of hide-and-seek: remembering that you're already whole
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
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The fundamental game at the heart of romance is hide-and-seek. Romantics cut out a part of themselves, hide that part in someone of their choosing, and then forget about the cutting and the hiding and the choosing. This process imbues love with the possibility of mythic alchemy: the completion of the self in union with the other. However, romantics have always ever already been whole. Unfortunately, remembering this makes it harder to keep playing the game.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #relationship #marriage
The fundamental game at the heart of romance is hide-and-seek. Romantics cut out a part of themselves, hide that part in someone of their choosing, and then forget about the cutting and the hiding and the choosing. This process imbues love with the possibility of mythic alchemy: the completion of the self in union with the other. However, romantics have always ever already been whole. Unfortunately, remembering this makes it harder to keep playing the game.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #relationship #marriage
I think part of everyone's confusion on this episode is that it began sounding like advice on how to pursue a relationship but ended with a warning not to do this but reject it
More on this topic! Please, dig deeper. Thanks!
Your channel was better when you talked about more than just romantic relationships.
@@RealHomeRecording he still does. I call cap
Are you talking about incorporating shadow into the consciousness and to be rational in love, to choose what benefit us?
"Satisfaction is the death of desire."
How can you tells what's the satisfaction and what's the desire?
Desire is the death of contentment.
Death of desire is the end of content*
Consent is the end of thrill 👀
I would love to learn to control my desire,, but it must be in our DNA
People are so complicated - Success is getting what you want. However Happiness is wanting what you get! = very different!
Wow thats good
Dude, I never use my “I have a PhD card” but…. This guy is SO dang knowledgeable. And I’ve met many intelligent people (far smarter than me)
The midwit card
Having a PHD doesn't necessarily mean you're intelligent. Just means that you're very knowledgeable in a certain field. Not trying to throw shade btw
@@Ibz-w4h no offense taken, lol what you say is very true and I’m glad you’re aware. PhD = highly specific and niche knowledge. All I meant was- I’ve listened and learned from people with PhDs in many areas (so we learn to spot true intellect vs superficial knowledge) and Orion is an example of someone that knows his stuff (as evidenced by his articulation and combination of the knowing the scientific literature and real world application). He knows his stuff as someone who can detect that well
@@Ibz-w4hit actually just means you've gone very far in school. Lots of odoit phds
@@antonionutrition Oh Makes sense, congrats on getting a PHD. That in of itself is no easy feat!
This is the most accurate, logical and understandable explanation of something that is otherwise illogical and almost impossible to articulate. This guy truly understands ’The Value Of Others ‘
This is high-level content. Way beyond the dumb "be a high value man" stuff from TH-camrs who clearly have deep-rooted self-confidence issues. This breaks down the science of the whole thing and how it works.
@@snowbear163 Agree. Be a 'Self-Referral Man' is harder to sell than 'Be a High Value Man' . Most RP youtubers are just farming for views/subs.
No , sorry to disagree. It’s a contrived pastiche that bears no resemblance to real life.
In realty the love object is imbued with everything the romantic yearns for. , accompanied by wilful blindness of the persons deficiencies and failures.
Byron was shocked when his love object went to the toilet to defecate.
his mother told him this stuff when he was a kid
I'm 40 now and I haven't "fallen in love" since I was a teenager. I've been in satisfying relationships but not with that "in love" energy that romance flicks are made of, and I always wondered if this was somehow odd. It was nice to have someone like Dr Orion say that this is normal for people who have got their emotional maturity together. Another great episode by Dr Orion.
maturity such, mature people act as old dead people
@@szymonbaranowski8184 100%. People can fall in love at 90, if it's the person that clicks in.
@@szymonbaranowski8184how would you define maturity instead? Do you think adults should still just “follow their hearts”?
It is possible to “be in-love” and go about in mature way. I just did a short coursed called “Causing Those Loving Feelings” by Alison Armstrong. I am already experience more love.
Falling in love has "falling" involved. Fallen souls are to be pitied and helped.
All you need is within you. Games are a waste of time.
侍の言葉
Until you realize its all
A game, kings and pawns go in the box
When doing college course on sociology, I was assigned to interview long time married couples, and some not so long. I made a small oberservation to Prof. This was in early 80’s. I pointed out, that almost all the long time married people, had grown up together in a community. There was also a faith component. Different faiths, but faith group. The prof gave me studies, showing that prior to the late 1960’s . Vast majority of couples pairing did it with people they grew up with, or knew a long time. The studies pointed to Hollywood & romance industries, changing the way people selected for most of history.
biologically best pairs are those of cousins,
cousins tend to be part of the same communities and religions, cities don't have communities and are less religious, its harder to leave when your spouse is from family it's then not only personal but family matter, we tend to stick with good things that we can't change for better ones
It's called compatibility and symbiosis.
People who meet in a community of similars (homogeneous) stand higher odds of dyadic compatibility.
@szymonbaranowski8184 that just sounds like you don't break up because you can't.... I guess that's the point.
Au contraire ma chère ! You can always run away in the sunset with another one of your cousins !
Dating apps have only been around for 30 years and only extremely popular for a few decades. They’ve also been monetized with public shareholders and are motivated to help people find new strangers to try, but not motivated to help people find lasting connections. Once you realize dating apps and social media damage connections, and don’t help them, you’ll exit stage left
Orion, I have been enjoying your videos for a long while now. As a person who has been reading self-help literature for many decades now (~30 years), I am convinced that you are some sort of genius. The variety of topics your explore, the originality of thought, the utility of your ideas, and your ability to explain never cease to amaze me.
this is true
Orion is an absolute genius. I suspect his IQ is off the charts high.
Married women tend to be the most romantic but, as the good doctor explains, not with the person they've already found.
And that's a huge part of the human condition for the unsatisfied "want what they can't have".
Yeah, found myself to be a victim of one of those married romantics 🙄
Yep, been there and they do things for you that they have never done for anyone.
Then they are (following the logic of the video) the most dissatisfied ones
@@StephenPuddicombe1that’s because you’re the loser who married her
What you've said here aligns with my experience, and it was when I realized these rules of the game that I finally mustered the strength to quit playing and walk away. Once I saw behind the mask, I couldn't forget what I had seen. Now I see masks everywhere I go. I'm not saying that it's all doom & gloom, but rather that my discernment, understanding, & wisdom have grown.
So being a romantic is glamorized just because of the illusory “adventure” of seeking wholeness.
And that adventure must be equally as compelling as our unconscious belief that we aren’t whole.
Relationships always got me so damn high quickly followed by a stark contrasting sobriety of disappointment of how ordinary it feels at the end of the day.
This really put things in perspective for me thanks doc
A lot of Male romantics are in jail doing time for harassment, stalking and intimidation.
If they run, let them go.
Project much?
Strongly disagree except for the last part. Reciprocate their energy.
Hell. Don't let the door hit'ya where the good lord split ya😂
Hell yeah
Toby Maguire, Orion Taraban, and Spider-Man are the same person.
And Peter Parker
You nailed it but you forgot. paulo dybala.
Compared to all this cutting, oppression, forgetting, game playing, etc. I prefer peace. No romance for me.
you are boring
@@szymonbaranowski8184
Thank you!
Peace is very precious.
@@szymonbaranowski8184, and you are young and a fool.
Agreed. I do get this is the way a lot of humans interact, but I find this unnecessarily boring and convoluted.
As we age, we realize that mental peace is of utmost importance, and this kind of silly games turns into a terrible way to use your time. I can understand how all this nonsense be entertaining to some people, I just find more pleasure in simplicity, which often comes tied with maturity on those who live by this mindset.
Good video, but I would have benefitted from more examples as to what we are disavowing in others, and how to actually make that process whole in ourselves. In other words, more specifics beyond the abstract idea.
It's a very bad video and I usually love all of his videos.
watch the meaning and fulfillment videos
This is a great insight about the idea of romantics cutting a piece of themselves out and looking for it in others. However I don’t think the reason is that it is an exciting game, but rather because romantics were taught as children that they weren’t lovable as a whole person, and that they would need to find/win that missing part of themselves in their parents, who didn’t love them sufficiently.
Psycho-babble.
People thrive with like-minded, like-wired, like-souled, like-yoked others. It's that simple.
@@roses6564 like it or not, like-minded, like-wired, like-souled, and like-yoked very often result from being like-parented.
@@jejo63660 Yes. What's your point?
@@roses6564 My point is that the romantic idea that was talked about in this video, where a person represses a part of themselves in order to ‘look for’ it in others, comes from a failure of their upbringing where their parents taught them that something was missing within themselves. You said that was psychobabble and said that it was as simple as people who are like minded thrive together, which I took to mean that parenting means little, & like attracts like. So I responded by saying that people who are likeminded often are that way because they were raised similarly and have the same childhoods and childhood issues, because your response came off to me as saying parenting doesn’t matter much and I wanted to reiterate that parenting means a lot.
@@jejo63660 Everything matters in compatibility: genetics, psychological profile, environment, childhood experiences, including parenting. Ilk. Yoke. Cut. Plus life experiences. All this creates like-mindedness which is the basis of a potentially excellent relationship. Any differences become charming, loving complementarity instead of frustration and desire to change the other. That's symbiosis. Add chemistry - you got it
That's all.
But it's a tall order.
It's falling in love with my projected best self onto significant other - all the while being blind to my own mechanisation in engineering the love.
Thanks for the thoughtful talk and confusing the hell out of me.
Interesting hide and seek metaphor.
My experience is a bit different. To be honest, I am in control of my life, from washing, ironing, cooking to working, advancing in my carreer and even self growth and inner and outer exploration.
However, I find that these things are fueled greatly when I am in a relationship with a lady. To me, there is a very obvious boost to all of the above when together with a woman, I guess because I start being for more than myself. But with the right woman, not perfect, just right.
Romantic or not... two is miracle for me, and a most worthy addition to the life.
Awesome short talk, spoiling us as usual.
You’re co dependent
Finally someone who gets it.
All Romantics say is that life is best with someone who fits you body-mind-soul.
It's not anything radical or delusional, but too many soulless curmudgeons think they are cool when they disparage the fundamental human need for connection, which is what Romanticism is ultimately about.
Don't ever trust any detractors of Romanticism, they are soulless, which would be a good chunk of humanity.
@@TV-oc4ml Being motivated by your partner is not codependency.....
@@TV-oc4ml humans envolved around being codependet, no couple can rise a children alone, there is no society made by a singular being...
@@urachialaska2126 😂 clown! You can’t redefine codependency: characterized by excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, typically one who requires support on account of an illness or addiction.
Love this concept but a few examples would have really helped as I’m still not quite connected
Same here
Im sure most that really wanted to grasp the point had to listen 2-4 times to contexualize the analogy to other concepts. It's harder to grasp for guys because they typically don't romanticize.
I kept asking myself 'what is this guy on about' with this one. Honestly sounded to me like a description of a series of dysfunctional relationships and then trying to normalize it as some kind of cute game or fantasy.
guys watch the whole series on this topic, might help ;)
It's one of his worst entries. Listen carefully to everything he said, then do the opposite.
This is pretty much the whole "where are the good men?" Cult in a nutshell
Needs a bit of exposition from your view, but gets my like cause you are on to something.
great insight
Taken, just like the good women.
Kicker: chances are they are taken by the wrong person.
Bravo, Dr. Tara van. You’ve done it once again I swear to God this man is trying to single-handedly break the matrix.
Fascinating. Just be happy and if you are not, work on yourself.
Adds much needed context to the saying "my better half"
Bravo
I needed this advice 40 years ago - I cauterized my need for romance years ago, more out of reaction to setting myself up for disappointment over and over, and less from understanding why. Loving this channel.
Real romance grows out of two people who enjoy doing stuff together - the shared challenge, the shared achievement, the shared problem solving. For example,, a date is more fun at a bar when there is a trivia contest.
This is so huge, most people do this. I also think there’s a bit of laziness in looking for it in others instead of taking responsibility for it and building/creating it/connecting to it internally
Listening to this again!
Yes! So agree. Pretty insightful that what we are looking for is ourselves.
Is this referring to dysfunctional romantic relationships, or healthy ones too? This does not seem to fit my own experience. Unless I’m missing something major and/or in major denial.
The man I’m in love with is also in love with me, there are no great barriers between us, he wants what I’m happy to give and vice versa, and we found each other and fell in love when we were both in great places in our lives (good friends, family, meaningful work, health, travel, etc.)
Being together is always better than being apart, but I don’t feel broken or less of a whole person when we aren’t. I know we’ll be together again soon, and the parts of myself I give and share with my love I know are still within me too. Like more of a copy & paste than cut maybe.
Also, I think there’s plenty of seeking and adventure in what more we can unlock and give to ourselves and each other as life goes on. Just my 2 cents.
You are the living proof of what Romanticism can achieve when it does not face social obstacles. You got lucky, this is wonderful.
The detractors of Romanticism are "sour grape" types who must rationalize and justify why most people's relationships are varying degrees of sucky and why this is OK bc it's not like "grass is greener." Sure it is.
In a romantic couple's yard, grass absolutely is greener.
@@roses6564 I think you’re right, and grass is green where you water it. Thank you so much for the kind reply ❤️
@@dog_lover1888 I rejoice when I hear about couples who are in love. It's the best bet in relationships. This is Romanticism - what everyone should aspire to. Pride and Prejudice type stuff.
Now, onto your conclusion. It is not exactly what I meant. When it comes to relationships, the "grass-is-greener" argument is ridiculous.
No one - EVER! - who is in love with their person would even consider discussing grass. They have no eyes or time for that since they are too much into their person. Who cares about other people's grass? Only those in unsatisfying relationships start talking grass.
Here's a not-so-dirty little secret: your grass is greener because you installed high-quality grass to begin with. Always examine the tropes. The herd parrots them.
Your consistent watering is a natural consequence of having found beautiful grass to begin with.
You started out being in love, you both got it right. You begin with quality grass, then the incentive to water it and maintain your lovely lawn is naturally there.
Start out with bad grass, in the wrong location, and you can water it all you want, it won't take root, it will dry, etc.
Then you have to keep lying to yourself that it just takes even more water. Then you get root rot. Or in the end, you tell yourself that brown grass is normal (marriage takes "hard work") or that the neighbor's green grass is just an illusion. Eventually you just give up watering and let it go to weeds.
This is how humans delude themselves.
Best of wishes to you and your love.
@@roses6564 That’s very true! Started with amazing grass haha. Good points. Thanks :)
When you say you’ll be together again soon, do you mean he has passed? Or there’s distance between you?
Uh...What?! I'm going to watch this again, maybe 3 times.
worth it
Romance is about a person who is unhappy or at least discontent with themselves and or life and they fulfill the void by giving it a pseudo purpose of chasing something they cant have.
@@Xenozillex oh thanks for that
I applaud you for summarizing such a deep topic so succinctly
This is exceedingly accurate in my opinion from my own personal experiences as well as that of close friends, whose relationships I know way too much about...
This chanel is a treasure.
This is profound, and I'm finally going to sign up to your GRE course. Thank you for helping me
This applies into way more than romantic relationships. Learned helplessness seems related to this process aswell. The thing is that it's actually horrifying to discover that these disavowed parts were actually there, since it forces you to confront your worst nightmares head on.
Im glad I found you. I’m tired of coaches telling you the opposite. I was very confused and doubting myself if was doing the right thing. My intuition said you’re right, but everything that I was watching a social media was making me crazy. Thank you!
This is the best explanation of romanticism I have ever heard. So much is clear now (about my past)
Dorothy's journey in the Wizard of Oz, she ends with the same conclusion.
Others here have said this, but your talks would be clearer with examples. "Joe didn't consider himself an intellectual, he was smart but had to drop out of college to get a job to help out his family. Tiffany has a master's degree in biology and is thinking about medical school. Joe is wondering if Tiffany is too far "above" him brain-wise to make a relationship work, but he is very attracted to her..." Joe doesn't realize he is already "whole" brain-wise, and if he goes back to college he is well able to get a master's degree and doesn't need validation from (a romance with) Tiffany to feel he is smart.
Duh. If he actually is as smart or smarter than Tiffany, they will know instinctively. Degrees are horrible measures of actual intelligence.
OH MY GOD THANKS SO MUCH
this makes so much more sense now THANKS!!!!!!!!!
So true, I went through the whole thing several times. Now I'm on the path of reintegrating these projected positive parts of myself again. Thanks for summarizing this so fittingly.
you should expand a lot on these: on how the disavowel happens, what means to be in bad faith with oneself regarding one's own character, how to prevent this internal scism, it would be very interesting and it would allow you to go back to "romantic advice" videos, which made this channel's fortune some months ago, don't you think?
(I have to add that I really like when you talk about growth and personal enlightenment, but I also recognise that "romance" sells better)
This was deep...but it truly does make sense when you consider certain people tend to think they'll "feel complete" once they finally meet their one true love...a sentiment which stems from their "seeming inadequacy" which in itself was fallacious either propagated by themselves or those around them.
I have a feeling Orion may never have actually be “in love” before.
I love alternative view points and different opinions - this is very interesting, and good for thought - but I take serious relationship advice from long term, happily married couples, and people who have lived and loved and stayed in love!
This isn’t a bash Orion - but sometimes the critiques are too clinical to encompass the true depth of human emotion, spirit, and yes; romantic love!
My God, this is brilliant! 🤩 Mind-blowing insights 😲 My favorite video of yours so far 🙏
Cupid's driveby 😆
I know, I laughed out loud at that. : )
😂 Pow Pow
@@godishere4 Shots fired! : )
Excellent analysis.
Womin’s thirst for drama is a high one.
What men call "thirst for drama" women call "thirst for connection."
Go marry a dude instead.
@@roses6564that’s actually solid advice, but the option that is even more guaranteed drama-free is to just not marry at all
@@roses6564then why do so many women only want what they can’t have? What does that say about their need to _connect_ ?
@@mark9294 This is also true. Don't marry at all, yes. Just keep the fulfilling relationship that works and proves itself each and every day without the socially manipulative controls of marriage. If you get a chance for such a thing, that is.
If not, alone is drama-free, unless you develop internal drama with yourself, from all the loneliness. It's not simple.
Romanticism all the way, if that's a possibility. The ultimate luxury in life. Don't listen to Orion on this one. He's wrong here.
@@esyphillis101 It's not that women "want what they can't have."
It's that most women settled for someone they shouldn't have had (questionable match) but they did anyway bc they experience bio-social pressures and tight deadlines.
Women are also more selective than men and care more about the substance of the relationship than men; so as long as monogamy is the norm, there will be many women who marry without being in love,aka settling. Yet women WANT a man they are in love with. It's the only way for them to look up to a man and admire him. Otherwise, the whole thing turns to nagging and subtle disrespect.
I believe in the automated tendencies of the human brain and psychology to heal and find solutions.. i think a romantic needs to be a romantic in that particular time … and then once he gathers enough mental energy.. he will automatically evolve to a less romantic and more realistic person with a clearer vision of what’s really going on .. understanding the game doesn’t mean playing it could be the best choice available at a particular time .. like a child who subconsciously choose to shut up and not face an abusing parent .. we always make the best possible choice and a fool who persists in his foolishness will become wise
Agreed, ppl need to cultivate and maintain their wholeness and achieve a self fulfilling life satisfaction.
This guy is a genius! Keep the content coming!
Most people need a therapist not a partner or lover. Most people are carrying around psychological attachment wounds from childhood, divorce, a bad breakup, etc that mean they are chasing completely the wrong people (e.g. gold diggers, bad boys, drama and chaos, etc). W secure attachment style.
What a great way to connect these ideas! A slightly new way of seeing - what a thrill ☺. Love this. Makes sense.
Yes, it fits my experience. This one was harder to understand than most of your videos, but worth it. Thank you.
I wrote 2 personals ads in my single life. They both said,’knowledge of cars is a plus,’ because both times I needed my car worked on. I also came out of being single and sought out my current husband when the transmission line fell off my car after I drove it up a snow pile. I am not a ROMANTIC when I’m single😭. Thanks a lot Dr. Orion.🧐
YES!!!! This almost tied my brain in knots! My husband of 38 years passed unexpectedly last year. I have been seeking.....I want to be coupled. This is very complicated at 60. I've met someone whom I enjoy very much. We will see......
You are way past your prime! 🥱🥱
@@cheekymonkeygirl3378She has wisdom which attracts the good men. Hence why she had one who unfortanetely passed away. Based on your comment you’ll probably be tossed around up until late after your ‘prime’.
What you said was true. Feeling of emptiness is the main reason for these hide and seek pleasure seeking behaviors in people. What i need to add is if you want romance even if you are whole is to creat polarity. Ie, if you are a man be a provider and protector for her and if you are a women be submissive and obedient to him. Sticking with these rules can creat polarity in a relationship which ultimately leading to feeling of otherness in your partner therefore attraction.
no, supportive and respectful, not slavish
@@szymonbaranowski8184I donot meant slavish. Having standards but still being obedient to the husband is a very ideal situation in a marriage relationship. Because men and women are not equal. If you are trying to creat equality between men and women then there will not be any polarity creating attraction between the partners.
A woman cannot be obedient to a man unless she sincerely looks up to him, which is different from making herself look up to him to fit a trad pattern. The lack of authenticity will catch up with her. He must be above her in caliber and she must be able to recognize that. This is why women are naturally hypergamous. They want to look up to him, instead of faking it to make him feel like a man. Only this can create the polarity you speak of.
A woman can't be submissive to a man she doesn't sincerely admire, looks up to and respects.
Neither can she respect a man just bc he's a man or bc he contributes to society in some way.
A garbage collector does a highly useful thing for the community but that doesn't mean ANY woman could be in a relationship with him and respect him for that and just for being a man.
Good matching is key. A man should never EVER EVER marry a woman he suspects might be above him in caliber, intelligence, genetic provenance, etc. It will backfire, sooner or later.
The two also require compatibility of nature above and beyond sex role complementarity. They must be best friends, with him of sightly higher caliber than her, but not by a lot.
Only this can create the polarity you speak of.
@@szymonbaranowski8184 a slave does not have covenant rights to exclusivity, fidelity, and love. It is mixing categories, even if the work both a slave and woman did were the same
@@thepointlesswords290 husband, not boyfriend. It's difficult to be obedient and submissive while dating. How do you show that you are feminine while having standards? Ie, not rolling over as soon as he wants to sleep with you on date 1, when you don't know him or if he's a good guy? Men don't wait. Orion talks about this. Y'all have funny ideas and conflicts. About what's normal. Trying to figure out what's true is difficult.
I first saw you on the Modern Wisdom podcast and now I am not addicted to your content, thank you for all your effort and the lessons you've shared. I've watch and shared so many of your videos. Pls allow me to offer you a tip, I work in media: using a laptop teleprompter will let you read your notes and maintain eye contact with your viewers which as you know is paramount. Keep up the great work!
"People simply aren't the innocent victims of Cupid's drive-by" Wow!
I wish I listened to this a long time ago. I’ve wasted so much time and effort in so many ways. I’m going to listen to this daily until I’m really absorbing it and acting on it. Thank you.
I enjoy so much listening to your videos! You have made me realise so many things about human psychology and behaviour!❤
No, I don't like what I am hearing. Most of this is psychobabble instead of psychological realism.
Discussions around Romance typically drip with misunderstandings over semantics, and this one's no different.
Romance is not what the popular understanding makes of it: irrational passion and lust domed to fail.
Due to such gross caricaturizations, the bigger social message is "settle for "Mr. / Miss Nobody's Perfect" 'cause that's "sure fire." Never mind divorce rates and the rates of marital distress of intact marriages.
Spoiler: if you want a quality, fulfilling relationship, he/she should feel perfect TO YOU and yes, you should feel the effects of that Romance. To understand actual romance one must understand marital selection first.
Most of the times, the marital choice is made under bio-social pressures within a given opportunity structure. The partners are very likely to rationalize "love," then insist on unrealistic traditional-religious theories that define it as a "choice." Ignore science or good sense (different from "common sense.") Unsurprisingly, later they struggle to fit square pegs into round holes, then cite the necessity for "hard work." Never mind the peg won't fit. Push harder.
In reality, the spouses are often poorly-suited to each other in terms of internal nature. We're talking harmonization that goes well-beyond sex complementarity and bio-social pragmatics (sex, marriage, reproduction, financial cooperation).
We're talking "best friends," per Nietzsche.
Actual romance originates in a great match of caliber, internal nature, and what the Bible refers to as "yoke." It doesn't originate in bare-bones lust, neither does it come from bio-social pragmatism (oh, muh bio-clock, muh fear of a future with cats, we match on paper, both have master's degrees and our mamas love interior design, I think I'm in love!).
Dude/Bruh/Queen: if you are, you won't "think." You will know. As in "Hell, Yes!" also per Orion Taraban.
Real Romantic love is naturalistic, the match is holistic. There is a reason they call those "Matches-Made-in-Heaven." These hold the highest potential to turn to secure, low simmering but indestructible love over the long term (maximum pair-bonding). Shall not be confused with habituation, sunken costs, "commitment," lack of alternatives, rationalizations, and other pragmatisms. Commitment by itself makes for marital longevity, not marital quality.
REALITY: most couples start out with a questionable match of interior, with sketchy odds of strong pair-bonding. However, bio-social programming causes them to believe they are a "good match" or they are "in love" because milestones must be reached. In reality, they are rarely that well suited so the mismatches of nature/caliber/ilk surface over time. Then there goes the drama.
Modern, diverse, heterogeneous societies make assortative mating even more difficult due to time costs for sorting out. Because they lived in small, homogeneous environments, our predecessors had higher odds of adequate mating.
Suitability (the pre-condition for romance) is a very complex phenomenon. It is not superficially defined compatibility, as in similar education, same background etc, although it is likely to include such proxy parameters.
Suitability is a mixture of internal compatibility (similarity of yoke), symbiosis (any differences that exist are minor and complementary), and chemistry (mystery of attraction). It has physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual components (PIES), and chemistry is part of that.
Without all of these in place, there's no solid matching, and romance is reduced either to lust (per mythos) or bio-social pragmatics (rationalized love).
Every idiot in history, as well as many misguided highly-educated "experts," have insisted on conflating romance with lust or some fleeting desire for adventure, mystery and excitement. This is failure to understand reality .
This is not what Romance is. The 19th century Romantic movement tried hard to make the point but it went straight over the head of Dweeb humanity.
Real Romance is Nature and Nature knows best.
Romance is born of holistic suitability - a naturalistic phenomenon (possibly spiritual too) and one of the highest instances of self-actualization a human can reach. Just because most are not lucky enough to find it, or to find it by marital deadlines, does not make it unreal or irrelevant, anymore than lottery wins are fiction. They aren't fiction, they are just difficult to come by.
The problem appears when people do find an actual healthy romantic match, then they brush it off because it is inconvenient or upsets the social order. So they rationalize it as "unreal" because society says so (it's just "lust").
The value of diamonds is hyped by De-Beers. Yes, but they still sparkle and cut like no other material.
Human foolishness has no limits, which is why people get what they deserve.
That’s spot on, a great argument for not getting married and foregoing romance in favour of having peace of mind
@@mark9294 Thank you.
I am aware I'm writing what many would see as a radical, if not blasphemous, view.
I am simply a realist, which is why I don't believe in marriage as a concept, especially in times when marriage must square up with higher levels of Maslow and is no longer just about material survival.
I would modify your comment to "a great argument for not getting legally married," but not to forgo actual romance.
Why would you? What sane human would?
Real love may or may not arrive in a person's lifetime, but it is the best anyone can hope for in this life.
Often, when it does arrive, people are already caught in sub-par marriages where they promised/vowed/swore on their mama's eyes, crossed their heart and hoped to die, that they will forever and ever "love" the other exclusively, even when that "great love" wasn't exactly there to being with.
But let's assume it was. Even so, love - especially the exclusive kind - cannot be guaranteed "forever." It is an impossibility.
It is in fact irresponsible to say such a thing which is why "vows" are nothing but symbolism. The "forever love" may or may not happen. Only time can tell.
You can bind someone to legally fulfill material obligations, but not to "love" forever.
Real romance is the only thing that makes sense. It is the only beautiful, healthy and sane thing when it comes to mate selection, because it is naturalistic.
It isn't enactment to meet bio-social mandates.
Sometimes marriages are blessed because they were founded on such a match/union. Often, they are not.
Marriage as a bare-bones concept, without the match that only Romance can provide, is a very risky proposition.
My argument is pro-Romanticism, and anti-marriage as a universalist, dogmatic institution.
Marital Romance is for a lucky elite. Everyone else gets by and "makes it work" through toil bc "better with someone than alone," - until proven otherwise.
How has this model been working out for humanity?
We can check the stats. QED.
Signed: Married, never divorced person.
This is a very interesting perspective, and I appreciate the way you explained it. I do think multiple perspectives can be true. For example, I think his idea that people in “emotionally satisfying relationships” never fall in love is because they don’t need to think the grass is always greener, they already got a dope lawn, which aligns with your idea that amazing relationships are absolutely possible. What I would argue tho, is (and you may actually agree with me on this) many people use romance as a coping mechanism and can’t be happy without it. Rather than trying to find peace within oneself, and then branching out to find a romantic partner to ENHANCE their quality of life, they are a damaged person looking for a partner to fix all that is broken within them, which isn’t fair or realistic. I think lots of men and women fall in love with the idea of a person built in their head or have an idea of how marriage is supposed to be, then like the Doc said, life can be tedious and hard, (because of course it can) and then become bored or dissatisfied without reflecting on WHY that is. I think romance is possible and is lovely when achieved, but I agree that the more at peace someone is, the more wholesome and less clingy/demanding their love can be.
@@Cje_-yj8ov Thank you. Let me top it off with some more unpopular thought - pure but inconvenient realism.
I do not buy the theory of "wholeness" and "broken" people trying to find someone to "fix them." There is zero empirical evidence for that. They try to find someone to suit them, not "fix" them. Big difference.
None of us are "whole" as in entirely self-sufficient unless we are autistic. This doesn't mean we are "broken" and "wrongly" looking for someone to "fix us." We DO need someone to connect with (not just reproduce with) because we are human. Yes, that includes genetics, psycho-social profile, childhood traumas, everything that makes US - US.
If there is no "wholeness" there is no "broken-ness" either - not in wanting love and connection with someone who suits our nature.
So yes, in this sense, we are all "needy" and in need of fixing. But that is fine. Instead of rejecting this basic human reality, we should embrace it and quit shoving people into pragmatically functional marriages that cannot satisfy inner needs.
It is those who don't have connection needs that are abnormal (probably somewhere on the spectrum).
Not being OK without love and connection is NOT a sign of sickness. It is within the range of normal human condition. So yes, we need someone to "fix" our lack of connection. We need to share a wavelength with someone.
Modern society's task is not to attack this need (you shouldn't need to be "fixed"!), but to ask: how can we maximize the number of people who get "fixed" through compatible unions?
People can only get truly "fixed" when someone loves them holistically and they love them back. That's the only "fixing" in town. Auto-fixing is a lie, no matter how convenient. It's still a lie. No one can "fix themselves" on their own or in a poorly matched relationship.
Instead we're still in cultural lag, moralizing over marriage and divorce on outdated thinking, when marriage was strictly transactional at the material level (eat, reproduce).
The focus in advanced, techno-commercial societies where starving is no longer imminent, should be 100% on compatibility
Mentally ill people are crazy around ANYONE, but that's a different story.
Those are much fewer than popular discourses would have us believe.
Most relationship problems stem from a lack of fundamental incompatibility, not the inherent "badness" or selfishness of one or the other, as the sanctimonious moralizers keep raging.
Gee, what a shocker: humans in advanced societies have differentiated selves which yield rather specific needs. Someone's trash is someone else's treasure etc.
Personally, I do not trust anyone who truly is "perfectly fine by themselves," setting aside bluffing, posturing and fear of vulnerability. If they truly are, they are bad news for a relationship. Even the best match will be optional to them, so they will never be able to see the sanctity and miracle of two people harmonizing like a glove. Chances are they will waste this gift for some convenient practicality, their ego, standing in society etc.
It is a big risk to get into a relationship with these "take it or leave it" types.
Then we should talk about individual differences: some people naturally have much more refined relational needs than others. They can range from "nice guy, he ain't beating me and he brings me lollipop" all the way to sophisticated needs of very complex minds and souls who can only fully connect with others like themselves since only this minority have the ability to "get" them (cognitive elite types).
Check the Bell Curve.
Regardless: ALL normal humans have some kind of pressing relational needs. If people were really so "whole" on their own, society would not be full of individuals pedaling like a duck to find that "right" someone, all the while trying to appear calm from water level up.
The secret is that in economically developed societies, people cannot look for just about "anyone." They need someone they love because they connect with them in a way they are genetically wired to. That's love and connection.
"True love" is it what the beholder says it is. Period.
If a beholder says that they saw a magnificent "behind" and that made them experience true love, believe them!
No need to start parroting moralisms on them - "that's lust, not love!".
Let it sink: For THEM, IT IS!
This is the level at which some people are wired to experience love. Can't go above that. End of story.
A couple with a huge sex drive and not much else ...that's where their hearts meet: in the genital area! Beautiful match.
Any objection to this is solipsism.
"If I don't experience love that way, neither do others! I get to define what love is!".
We are wired to want relationships that suit us, personally. Compatibility brings joy and marital satisfaction. That's all there is to it.
@@Cje_-yj8ov I replied but they censored it again. Not sure if it's bots or just evil humans but yeah. I'll copypasta again, see what they'll do.
Appreciate you sharing a couple videos without swearing recently
Wow, good point. 😢 coarse language is degrading!
What is beauty then? What are we hiding from ourselves when we project and perceive beauty on someone?
our asymetries
Much appreciated content! Love yourself first!!
This is highly accurate. After endless hook-ups and sex based relationships I just stopped. After breaking up with my last girlfriend I decided to face every single one of my demons. 8 months of inner hell and outer turmoil I'm free. That NEED to have sex is gone lol. The NEED receive female validation? Gone.. I'm enjoying my own company, living purposefully, and returning to my favourite hobbies. The only real love one can experience is from within yourself.
dude. I cannot @ all understand WTF you are talking about. but thanks anyway.
Why not? He makes it very easy.
This one was a tougher more complex one for sure but just replay parts
You can be a romantic in a mature relationship. Learning how to be better at love, improve yourself, make the other person happy is romantic af.
I really wish you went into more depth on this rather then ending just as you make sense. I think you should do a 20-30 min episode as this topic could make MANY episodes at the very least. It’s really a skill to “know thyself”
This is nervewreakingly insightful
Orion you truly are doing Gods work. Thank you 🙏🏻
@psychacks is it okay if you gave an example
maybe in the comments, beacuase alot of poeple including me are a little bit confused
:)
So true and this is something i truly struggling with being a hopeless romantic. Going from one relationship to the next looking for this perfect love.
Thank you so much for your content, Orion. It's been so inspiring and soothing to hear and reflect on these concepts that have helped me heal through my own process of instrospection after a painful breakup.
There is a poem by Mexican poet Joaquin Sabines called "Los Amorosos" or "The Lovers" that I believe is one of the most compelling expressions of, precisely, "romance being a game of hide and seek", and the never ending process of fulfilling what is already inside of us.
What you said in this video reminded me of a passage in a book called "The Three Pillars of Zen" when a man is allowed to ask a Zen Master to write some maxims of high wisdom, to what the Master brushes the word: "Attention". The man gets outraged and says: "That's it? Will you not add something more!". The Master writes: "Attention, attention".
Once again, Orion, much obliged!
Very very interesting but ….. what about lust? Is that feeling of needing someone so bad just another word for falling in love? Is it different for men than women?
You still amaze me with each video, thank you doc.
Romantics just like the IDEA of a relationship - rose-tinted specs and all that ... (I do like the insights!)
Really good. Very on point. You only notice these things after a lot of experience out there. Thanks for sharing.
I don't get it.
Ok i watched twice and still don't get it.
Someone to explain?
I think the good doctor failed to do a clear explanation on this one. He is using too much metaphor.
Hmmm. Okay. So you seem to be making a distinction between “romantics” who are looking for a half (another) that would make them feel complete vs people who are “whole” and simply want a life partner/companion.
How are “being whole” or “being a romantic” objectively quantified/qualified?
Love and date yourSELF first ❣️🤔
Tate was right, women love mystery. So keep parts of you mysterious so they have someting to seek for
it's not enough, what you bring out needs to be also attractive and interesting
"Lack of Communication is Key" by Doug Wilson is better than what tate toldv you, examine it for comparison
@cosmictreason2242 I'm sure there is much better ways to articulate the message, but tate is good at summarizing and simplifying things I will say. Will check that out
@@williepatino2832Yes Tate was programmed at Tavistock.
That's not really the main point of Orion in this video but yes.
My gosh, this is shocking to learn. Life long romantic here. In and out of relationships since 15yrs of age (36 now). 100% would agree with this. Thank you!
Probably the most mind altering and helpful episode I’ve seen, thank you
Hello Orion, been enjoying your content for over a year. Your comments at 5:28 about difficulties with "falling in love" when being satisfied with your current trajectory resonated with me. Would love it if you did a video on how people should approach this! Kind regards
Happiness is your nature. It is not wrong to desire it, what is wrong is to seek it outside of yourself when it is inside - Romana Marharishi 🙌
Ok so what I'm hearing, I think, is the game as it played before there is significant healing done by either the romantic or the partner they seek. Only at the end does our good Doctor suggest healing that will significantly alter this dynamic. I would like to hear more about the game as it might be played AFTER the healing is done.
Yes it seemed like he was advising how-to at the beginning and that's what led to confusion
As far my understanding goes, the game ceases once enough trauma has been worked through, David tian has a great podcast on the topic
Sometimes, due to metaphors ect, I understand you completely. Sometimes I haven't a clue as to what u just said to me. Perhaps u say what u gonna say then paraphrase it in common layman terms please and thank u love the channel
So George Clooney didn’t “fall in love” like he says he did? Or was his life not satisfied….
Totally agree. This is quite a rewarding episode. 😊
Romantic at heart = the embodiment of self-contained mythic love that can never break the barrier of fantasy.
Life works from the inside out and everyone is whole and complete. Rupert Spira has an excellent book on the topic - "You Are the Happiness you Seek".
Minute 5:05 perfect soundtrack for a plot twist XD love it!
Great information. Thankyou 💛 life can be better with a loving companion to share experiences with but this is a rare outcome of romance, and your explanation of why is so interesting. I'm going to listen again!
This fits my experience. I project these disavowed parts of myself onto another and fall in love with the other. Funny how projection works both for positive and negative traits (but in both cases, traits we can't accept for some reason). Thanks for your video.
Thanks!
Falling in love has "falling" involved. Such fallen souls are to be pitied and rescued.
I wish that I understood this in my youth. I had to learn the hard way through a divorce to a woman that used for my money, and then bailed when she bled me dry.
Beautiful message today Doc, and right on time for my, and I'm sure many others' relational struggles. We are already whole
Men, don’t make this difficult. What Dr. Taraban is talking about is being disciplined in the relationship and using our big head to take all things into consideration as opposed to our little heads. He’s not taking about not “falling in love” or not “being romantic”. He’s talking about the skill of staying disciplined and not giving ourselves away to the next shorty that comes our way. Protect your heart. Protect your mind.
Another message that nailed it! Thank you Orion!
Women appear to always seek validation from others . We just need to be logical in our thinking when it comes to relationships ❤