Meng/Haku for sure but Rick Rude was also legendary for being one of the strongest and toughest guys, and also Kane during his prime was legit freakishly strong.
Not many people talk about the real hero in this story, the referee, he needed to come up with a solution on the fly to save Kurt twice, to save him from injury and to save his reputation from embarrassment in front of millions who watched.
@@josephroseo8063that is an old way of thinking. Logically speaking if you're going to challenge someone and you're going to make it over to them the competition you should own your actions and not try to make excuses. There's no doubt about it that Kurt Angle screwed over Daniel puder because of Kurt's ego. I am a big fan of Eddie Guerrero's but there is no way to stay a short of believe that Eddie Guerrero, Hardcore Holly, and Chris Benoit forwarding and basically a hit job to try to embarrass Daniel puder. In my opinion Kurt Angle is a legend but this is an action that definitely tranish legacy so did it tranish Legacy of Eddie Guerrero
@@mattj4362you order from Beverly lift up his contract and he was booked poorly then if you're not paid has your contract States you weren't going to want actually say you're going to pay fairly their next concert
Probably because most of these story’s take place when he had to be perc Angle in which his neck, which is in extreme fuckin pain, prevents him from doing stuff
Kurt was so successful because despite being a legit badass, was NEVER a mark for himself. He was willing to not take himself seriously and be a goofball. And he was confident enough to do that, because despite his shenanigans,he could was one of the best wrestlers in the ring of all time. Probably in the top 20 of all time.
@@micahsanders17 Top 5? I'm not sure, but it certainly could be argued. There have been so many great workers. Bret, Shawn, Perfect, Jericho, Flair, Steamboat, Owen, Savage,
@@tonykennedy8592 yeah, Angle literally won an Olympic gold medal in this field.. that puts him above everyone as far as pedigree.. he knew what to do and could stand toe to toe with anyone as far as pure athletic ability.. there is no doubt he is a top five wrestler
Kurt's memory isn't the best, more rounded versions have been told by Bruce and JR. This still adds to it though. The tough enough guys were given tasks through the day, eating contest with pasta etc was one. Then they made them all run for miles, folk were spewing etc. Bruce Prichard kept an eye on who never ate a lot and who never put full effort into the run to blow them up. Puder was actually the second guy Angle faced, Angle was only supposed to wrestle one. He wrestled the right guy and won. He got on the mic amped up and said he could beat all of them. Puder stood up, Vince told him to avoid him because he'd been taking earlier challenges lightly so was full health. Angle was cleared for work but had also just legit wrestled someone. When Puder called him out, Angle went off script to save face. He should have said "Me and you, next week" or something. Instead the infamous moment happened
As we know from The attitude era Vince would never put any of his wrestlers in danger and their health was always a top priority just ask the wrestlers that work for him lol
You believe Kurt? Kurt says "I took him down, and he got me in an armbar." That's a MF lie. You can see Puder get the arm bar on while they were standing. Kurt didn't take him down, Puder took him to the grown. Then he lifted Kurt off his feet, refs counted him out. You can clearly see it on video.
I agree with Al Snow's analysis of the entire situation. Not Kurt Angle's, and not Daniel Puder's. He states that this should've never happened. Wrestling is a WORK, folks. The blame lies with Vince McMahon who, as the promoter, should've known better. It's HIS television show. Putting wrestlers in a situation that you can't possibly control ON PURPOSE and ON LIVE TELEVISION? This isn't UFC and Tough Enough ain't the Ole Anderson School of Wrestling.
@@briandelgado4985 Exactly! See this is why I sometimes question "the genius that is Vince McMahon" that this company is so quick to push on its cult-like fans. Like having a live shoot fight on Smackdown. WHO, exactly, does this benefit? If Angle was to beat Puder, congratulations. You had an Olympic gold medalist beat a rookie. If Puder was to beat Angle, congratulations. You had a rookie expose a respected veteran with a busted neck. This is wrestling booking 101: You try to make BOTH guys look as good as they can to draw MONEY!
I think that Vince might enjoy stirring shit up between his workers and watching them fight for real. And then push the winner because Vince likes legit badasses; that's why Faarooq and Bradshaw got a push as the Acolytes/APA despite fans not really giving much of a shit about them before that; Rocky was overshadowing Faarooq in the Nation, and Bradshaw wasn't even part of a memorable faction like the N.O.D., but instead was part of the New Blackjacks.
@@Trustme77 That's fine when you do that, but still, you work it in a controlled setting. I'll use Foley vs. Flair as an example. Legit heat between the 2 because Flair decided to shoot off his mummified mouth about Foley's style of wrestling in his book. Is Flair a "bad ass?" I'm sure he thinks he is. Is Foley a "bad ass?" He'd probably say "no," but the guy has proven time and again he can take a beating and still get up. Yet both were able to do business in the ring. This dude Puder had precisely ZERO knowledge OF the business. And then to put him in a shoot fight against Angle? There was no need for any of it.
@@PrimeEvilDean It seems to me that the best way to teach somebody about the business, if they don't know all the ins and outs of it, is to just tell them how things are supposed to be. As opposed to "I'm in the main event" prompting a response of "KILL this disrespectful motherfucker!!!" Let me tell ya, I was really bad at carrying on conversations for a long time and I put my foot in my mouth more times than I can count. That's one more reason I don't like the idea of people like Angle, or Benoit, or Holly thinking that any time somebody puts his foot in his mouth without having first "paid his dues" that the only way to teach them better is to beat them up. HBK was asked once about the ritual of shaking everybody's hand in the locker room, and he told a story which I think is relevant here. He said that when The Rockers arrived in the WWF, he and Marty didn't know anybody, and they were shy and they weren't going up to anybody to introduce themselves and shake hands. And then Dynamite Kid approached them and asked to talk to them in private. Now, we all know of Dynamite's reputation as one of the biggest locker room bullies ever. But even Dynamite did not just decide to wail on Shawn and Marty thinking that would make them start acting the right way. Dynamite said something to the effect of "Guys, everybody expects you to shake hands with them when you get here, and to introduce yourself. If you don't do that, then they're going to think that you're stuck up." And IIRC, The Rockers were like "Huh? We're not stuck up. We're just new here and we're nervous..." And then Dynamite said "Well, the rest of the boys don't know that." After that, Shawn and Marty knew that they were supposed to shake hands, and they did so. So I'm thinking that maybe if someone just said to Puder "Dude, whether you know it or not, it's really easy for you to piss people off here. You've already got heat because of what happened with Kurt, and if you say that you're in the main event it comes across as you bragging and trying to act like you're better than everybody else. Yeah, I know it's the last match on the card, but try to imagine how it sounds for someone who just got here to say he's in the main event, when lots of these guys have never main evented in their careers. Whether you mean it this way or not, there's gonna be wrestlers here to take it as 'Haha, look at me, I'm a MAIN EVENTER and you schmucks who've been here for years aren't!'" Maybe Puder takes the advice, maybe he doesn't. But that era in the WWF/WWE (apparently in WCW it wasn't as bad) where newcomers didn't get any instructions on how to act and got the shit kicked out of them as soon as they acted the wrong way was a really fucked up time, and I'm glad it's over.
What a disaster of a situation. People love to put the blame entirely on Puder for not going soft on Angle and letting him win easily. Everyone is to blame. Vince for even coming up with the idea for asking Kurt to shoot wrestle right after coming back from neck surgery, Kurt for even inviting Puder into the ring with him after already beating the other guy, and Puder himself for acting arrogant. If this was meant to be an Olympic style match with pins only, that should have been make clear beforehand. Puder simply reacted based on his MMA training. I don't think he was aware of the rules. I think the main reason Puder's wrestling career didn't work out was his attitude, not because of the shoot match.
@@shopping_cart_central I'll have to watch the original segment again, but I am pretty sure they didn't specify that it was Olympic rules and not catch as catch can (which does allow submissions). Either way, terrible idea and shouldn't have happened. Edit: Okay, I just rewatched it. The Tough Enough contestants had a burpee contest, which Chris Nawrocki won. Kurt Angle told him that the prize was "your first ever match, against me". After Kurt quickly pinned him, he asked if anyone else wanted to try, and Puder immediately raised his hand, with a somewhat arrogant look on his face. It was never mentioned on TV that this was an Olympic style match, let alone a shoot match or anything other than a standard WWE match. I don't know if they told the Tough Enough guys ahead of time backstage, but I'd be surprised. Olympic rules weren't really being followed anyways, since they weren't keeping score or using round time limits. Also, I was surprised that Puder bragged about being in UFC even though he never fought there, he only fought in amateur and minor MMA leagues at the time.
My understanding is, the Puder thing was unplanned, Angle went off script and challenged the whole crew, Puder raised his hand, and they got into a real scuffle on Live TV.
But when have they ever used arm bars or UFC submission holds in the WWE? They're competing for a WWE contract. It's in front of a ton of screaming WWE fans. Puder just watched a match that went for a pin. He couldn't just overpower Angle and get a pin so he decided to switch to an MMA submission. Everyone justifying his actions are forgetting that whatever else it was, it was wrestling - not MMA. And WWE wrestling at that. If it was me, I would have gone for overselling Angle's move like Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan.
@@anonaguy3008 He performed a hold known as a figure four armlock, double wrist lock, or key lock. This is a traditional wrestling hold that comes from catch as catch can, which is a form of shoot wrestling that evolved into modern professional wrestling. Watch some matches from the 1930s-1970s, this hold was fairly common, but it was usually not applied full force, it was mostly used as a rest hold, part of a takedown, or transition move. I don't think I've ever seen it used as a finishing move in a worked match. Wrestlers like Lou Thesz used it all the time. It still is used occasionally in more technical matches. I'm pretty sure I've seen Bret Hart use it a few times. I'm not defending Puder at all. He was arrogant and challenged Kurt, most likely because he wanted to show off and make himself look like a big shot. Kurt wasn't supposed to issue an open challenge, he was only supposed to challenge the winner of the burpee contest. Still a terrible idea considering that he was still recovering from a series of injuries. He had no business shoot wrestling anyone. They should have planned better. I think overselling like Shawn Michaels did to Hulk Hogan would have gone over poorly as well, and would have make Kurt look almost as foolish. Also, keep in mind that supposedly Kurt hurt the other guy. The whole thing should have never happened.
I love Kurt but this a "2 wrongs don't make a right" deal for me. The TE contestants were treated like shite unnecessarily and there was a air of bullying in those days that was painted over as hazing.
They all went through it, if you wanna be an ass then it will probably just be tougher on you. I’m not gonna pick a side but if you watch puder then you can see what Kurt Iis talking about. He’s an ass and then he thought he was better than he really was. He was entitled.
If you ever played on legit sports team in the late 90’s/early 2000’s then you’d know this was just basic routine. My football coach once lied to the entire team and started off our 2-a-day practice by saying that someone stole his car keys from a bag that he’d purposely left sitting out in the gymnasium. Nobody spoke up so he told us to all do bear crawls until he got bored. After the bear crawls he told us to go get some water from the garden hose that he “forgot” to put out & hook up. He then laughed and told us to run laps around the track until he got bored. Finally at the end of practice he reached into his front pocket of his shorts and pulled out his keys before saying he was proud of us for not lying to get out of hard work & for gutting it out. It was hours of hell, but a team building exercise.
Just read the ridiculous shi t they made these kids do, forcefeeding them between circuits just to make them throw it back up, no "legit" professional athletic camp would ever do that. Old inadequate jocks trying to pick on the newbiew, and Angle nearly got his arm broken for it, by a "legit" fighter
My original position on this has not changed: if you don't want a guy to shoot on you, then do not tell him to shoot on you. And Kurt had told the whole group to try shooting on him. So he got shot on and almost had his arm broken. He has nobody to blame but himself and maybe Vince for setting the thing up in the first place. I like Kurt's matches as much as anybody, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with him that the right way to deal with someone is to legit beat him up in the ring; even Shawn Michaels, who isn't always the nicest guy, has said that shooting on someone in the ring isn't professional and that if you're mad enough to fight someone for real you should do it in the back the way Booker T and Batista did.
It was a wrestling match not an mma fight nobody uses a kamara in wrestling none of them took it seriously that's why puder got the shit chopped out of him that's why big show smacked one of them you act like they were victims. But it's how the business is you take it seriously it's in the name tough enough the only one who took it seriously was miz. Now look at were he is former wwe champion married to one of the hottest women in the world and hes rich while the others aren't relevant. The point is if you have a job you do what you're told you dont go into business for yourself that's why big show got mad. It was worse in the territory days.
I also I just watched the segment again, at no point does Kurt mention that it’s going to be an “amateur wrestling” match or mentions that it’s under Greco Roman or amateur rules. He brought that on himself. Jimmy Korderas really bailed him out
@@becominghuman3561 kurt said he was going to pin them like he did the first guy tell me what mma fight has pins it was a shoot wrestling match not an mma fight
@@KAR5AVATARGT he did not say anything or announce on the mic he was going to “pin” anyone. He said a match. You can submit people in pro wrestling. Again he never mentioned it was under Greco Roman rules, or amateur rules. So again, Kurt Angle brought it on himself
The early TE seasons were during the “Ruthless Aggression” era and the contestants were bullied and hazed nonstop. They were presented as “less than”, so no one thought Puder (an MMA fighter) could beat Kurt. It was a bad decision by WWE and a result of the toxic culture back then.
I personally think he's the absolute best well rounded wrestler of all time when it comes to character being face or heel and along with his in ring work.
Absolutly, saying he sucks, that he had an ego problem (like no other wrestlers has en ego...). He basically told that Puder got beat up by Benoit/Guerrero and that bully Holly just because he said that he was in the main event (which it is)... On top of that, they told him not to pick Puder but he did it anyway knowing his body was not in great shape.
He would have broken his arms and put him on the shelf making him lose paychecks and the match with Shawn Michaels at WM. And that Kurt was already in extreme pain. You would be bitter too
Al Snow said it best. "It never shoulda not been a work" as soon as it's not a work anything can happen. Kurt embarrasses that kid 99 times out of 100. But that was the 1 time. And it was on national tv
Just rewatched it. Angle was in control for most of it. Puder nearly got a whizzer on from Amateur Wrestling and then managed to get a Double Wrist Lock/Kimura (not a figure four armlock as I’ve heard others call it) from Catch/BJJ. However the shoulders being pinned is key here. In Professional Wrestling if the shoulders are down…you count the pin. Think back to Hart vs Piper at Wrestlemania. Piper got the sleeper applied. Hart used the turnbuckle to roll backwards meaning a submission and pin were being applied simultaneously, and got the pin fall. The only controversy here as far as I can see is…what a dumb angle and Angle himself wasn’t being smart going for the one guy he was told not to.
I don't know if Puder was held back due to the incident or not. I do know that he couldn't do any of the talking aspect of it. Not, a promo, not a conversation, nothing. He was awkward as hell in that department. And fair play, it's nerve racking to talk live on camera in front of millions. But that was gonna be a big problem from him whether Kurt held him back or not
Whole situation taking both sides into account: There was some miscommunication and lack of communication that caused Puter to do something he wasn't supposed to, then got a huge head about what he saw as beating Kurt Angle, never grasped what he did wrong in that situation (he kinda went into business for himself), and his ego ended his career more than anything. He just didn't seem to grasp that pro-wrestling is about a pair of people working together and trusting the other guy in the ring to do his part. You can tell this in interviews Puter has done about this over the years (though that might have been partially theatrics). However if there was clearer instructions at the time backstage Puter might have played along.
Without looking back at it, I sure thought Kurt wrestled someone else first...and then asked "anyone else" and Puder accepted, which he was likely not supposed to do. You could tell by how PO'd Kurt was afterwards! I don't see his story holding true at all if the basics aren't right. Referee's story of events!: th-cam.com/video/oLKt9Df7PBQ/w-d-xo.html
Well, no. It was the company's fault for thinking it was a good idea to do these unscripted challenges with people who are literally trying to win a competition to be a wrestler. Happened with the Big Show bodyslam challenge as well with guys no-selling because nobody told them they are supposed to sell, they thought they had to be tough and take it like a man which pissed off Big Show to the point where he was actually trying to hurt them. If you throw out a challenge like "Who wants to wrestle Kurt Angle?" and don't tell them they're supposed to lose, what are you expecting to happen?
From what I hear, that season of Tough Enough was basically Brawl for All Lite. Just with less direction. I don't even remember what the rules of that match was, but the way Kurt was wrestling, it was basically an unofficial mat wrestling match, so Puder putting on a submission hold like that on wasn't exactly good strategy. It'd be like a kick boxer kicking a regular boxer in a standard boxing match. As for Puder's attitude, I've heard more people refer to Puder's attitude more often, so it doesn't surprise me that he thought he could make more money despite only winning Tough Enough.
Watch the capture the flag challenge from that season, it was supposed to be closer to a work, but JR said that vince himself told the Basham Brothers 10 minutes before the challenge that if anyone got the flag, that they'd be fired, and thus, it turned into a shoot real fast.
Kurt leaned him back and got the "1, 2, 3"? Not to argue the technicalities of wrestling with someone who won a gold medal in it with a broken freaking neck but wasn't Daniel's shoulders off the mat?
The video shows him square in his back, he just has both shoulder “up” staying on the hold. So in professional wrestling no need to kick out, just raise you arm up? No, he was pinned.
So they shot on him because he said he was in the main event instead of saying he was in the Rumble match. Yeah, that punishment fits the crime EXACTLY, doesn't it? 🙄Between this and Kurt saying in a different interview that Bob Holly only beat up guys who "deserved it" (Matt Cappotelli deserved it why, exactly?), Angle is coming across as either just one more locker room bully or somebody who approves of that shit. I'm starting to think that not only is it a good idea to never meet your heroes, it's also a good idea never to listen to them.
The situation with Bob Holly beating the lights out of Matt Cappotelli (not justifying his actions) is that these guys are competing for a contract for a spot in one of the highest levels of Pro Wrestling despite having no prior experience in the business. It's the reason why a ton of people hated the Miz back then, because you had guys in the locker room who busted their ass for years trying to get where they are only for a scrawny guy with no experience or proper training get put in a similar program. Daniel Puder had it coming with his attitude. If he wanted to be in the WWE as a tough guy, he didn't need to enter a contest where contestants get humiliated. The guy painted himself as a target.
@@vDeadbolt Bob Holly was a complete bastard backstage by most accounts, a total piece of shit. There's no excuse for the way he treated newcomers. The way the Miz was treated was complete clownery, too, as he was actually good in ring and on mic and he got heat because of how he got there, and look at him now, guaranteed hall of famer. Maybe the egos were too big in the locker room.
1:57 "He thought I was the reason he didn't work out in WWE. That's not true. He just sucked as a wrestler." 3:39 "He was a talented kid. He really was."
So it was just Angle's ego in the first place which is led that horrible situation. Benoit, Guerrero, Angle and Holly acted like bullies at RR07. No matter how arrogant the rookie is, settle all differences off camera, kids.
Benoit, Guerrero and Holly might have chopped Puder's chest into a bloody pulp during the Rumble but it happened within a save environment knowing he won't shoot back. Put them in a 1 on 1 regular wrestling match and I doubt they would have taken any liberties like that with him, not to mention a shoot match.
Benoit is a tough psycho, he can school Puder. Bob Holly is known for his stiffness, Puder wouldn't stand a chance with him also. Only Guerrero is the possible guy to at least Puder have a chance with. Don't treat these pro-wrestlers like they can't fight for their life. They are fully trained to shoot also.
From what I gather is that Kurt’s job was to ruffle the feathers of the rookies, Kurt then unfortunately picked the one guy that could out shoot him in the ring. So Daniel Puder got NUCLEAR HEAT for bragging about out shooting Angle. Then Puder’s career in WWE was in dead water as he had fucking NUCLEAR HEAT with the locker room, and at Royal Rumble 2005 Vince puts Puder in the Rumble with Benoit, Eddie and Hardcore Holly all kicking the shit out of Puder. Puder then gets released. Angle is fucking great, one of the greatest to ever lace a pair of boots, but he always tries to keep his pride and won’t say that Puder just had him on that day, instead he makes excuses about it for his pride.
If Puder would have kept his mouth shut, he would have had a 10 year career in WWE. A smart man would have let everyone else do the talking. Everybody saw what happened. They didn't need Puder telling them. Puder talking just made him look like an asshole.
Well said. Kurt simply got beat. I personally think it's pathetic if the locker room wants to retaliate on Daniel puder for simply doing his job but with chickenshit to by Daniel puder one on one
@@douglasdoyle8944well first of all regardless Kurt Angles in Olympic gold medalist and regardless Kurt Angle enter that situation what was the one that made the challenge. You cannot seacret was not going hard on the challengers because fractured one of the toughest enough challenges named Chris his ribs
probably meant he had potential cuz he was athletic. but he had no personality, at all. it takes time to learn the craft tbf most people start off not so entertaining in the ring
@@ondoidlifestyle5754 This video nor my comment has nothing to do with AEW but thanks for your random tribalism outburst You do know this videos regarding an incident that happened in the early 2000s right??
You just played yourself, AEW wasn't even founded yet back during the time this incident took place between Kurt and purer. You just saying random stuff
So Puder got punished for Kurt wanting to test himself when he wasn't physically able. Also, playing off what they did as fucking with him, when it was a straight up assault on TV.
Sure looked like Benoit/Eddie/Hardcore Holly were retaliating on behalf of Kurt. That was a straight mauling for 10 minutes on a guy whonwasn't allowed to defend himself in a shoot situation. I like Kurt, but he was outshined by a rookie and the ref came up with a finish on the fly to save his reputation and his arm. That should've been the end of it. That beatdown they gave him at Royal Rumble 100% was tied to this incident. Maybe Puder deserved some commupence, but not THAT.
@@ffryanit's not having a poor attitude to consider the main match the main event if you're in a pay-per-view called the Royal Rumble logically speaking what is the main event of the Royal Rumble the Royal Rumble match do taking pride in your work and saying you're in the main event is not an insult it's being grateful and aware
@@Gamblesteincuter should not have been punished for it if anything the three wrestlers that mauled him should have been punished. This should have served as a teachable moment for Vince but rather than learn from his mistakes then chooses to blame others and sabotage others
Are we supposed to blame Puder for this? He was already green as grass, unwise to the business, so when he goes out there and gets challenged to a legitimate shoot with unclear rules, what else is he supposed to do?
Kurt is still bitter about it, you should've just listened to Vince and not picked Puder, and you could've been humble and explained to him man to man that you'll try each other later, but now you're not in the proper condition to do so. No shame in that, any competitor would want their opponent to be at their best possible condition
Puder beat him legit. I can still hear his butthurtness. This is embarassing. Kurt is still great. But should be so honest to respect, that there are other people which skill like Puder too
When you have a broken neck and your arms aren't working straight, you don't pick the guy who's a legit wrestler who is new to the business and naive and expect him to "know" and "learn" the business. This interview makes Angle look like a bully
Lol cmon Kurt I love ya but those Tough Enough kids got hazed every damn season. You knew what you were doing. Why not be honest? Puder kicked your ass after you asked for it. Plain and simple.
The fact that Puder "just happened" to be there with those three guys makes me think whoever was in charge of the order of appearance (Patterson?) wanted Puder to be given his receipt.
Patterson was in charge of appearance but it was rumored by JR that Bruce Pritchard noticed that Puder had caught on to what they were trying to do to the contestants that day(they had them do a pasta eating challenge, followed by a miles long run, and Daniel caught on during the first part, came in last on purpose for the pasta eating challenge, and was the only contestant not to spew during the running challenge, it's also been speculated by JR that Puder lost the Burpee challenge on purpose, pissing off the higher ups) so Bruce told Vince about it, and Vince warned Angle not to choose Puder. There was supposed to be no receipt given
I find it funny the referee ended it like Angle won, he let Angle cheat. but I love how Angle now claims he was already hurt lol He got man handled by a kid and can't deal with it
Daniel Pruder got one of the worst receipts I can imagine though. There has to be nothing scarier than getting chopped by Eddie and Benoit for 5 minutes, and then hearing Bob Holly’s music hit.
Kurt is one of my fav wrestlers but the Puder situation is his own foolishness. Don't ask the one guy you were warned not to shoot wrestle you, to step in the ring, and then get mad when he does some MMA crap on you. Play stupid games win stupid prizes Kurt.
People throwing stuopid hate but Kurt was not going for a SUB, he was aiming for a x3 tap. The kid wanted to look good by going for a SUB no matter at all cost. Sadly Kurt won. It's honest, it's fair and Kurt didn't lose. I don't understand the comments man. Kurt probably could finish off most UFC fighters had Kurt gone MMA hardcore, not wwe.
freestyle wrestling is NOT mma submission wrestling. different scoring. I was in highschool wrestling and was told as much "this isn't pro wrestling, dont try to slam your opponent, we go by points"
you took him down "what?" puder controlled kurt on the way to the mat and purposely,but it hes fault kurt's pride didnt listen to vince,he had "NO CHANCE"
Kurt handled this like a boss. The kid singlehandedly put Kurt’s career in jeopardy by essentially cheating in an amateur wrestling match. In case anybody didn’t know…you can’t put a guy in a key-lock and try and snap his arm in half when you’re amateur wrestling. Technically Kurt did win as he pinned him shoulders to the mat. The incident never should have happened in the first place, but Puder earned his ass whooping.
So... An un-healthy Angle was doing amateur wrestling (1 second pins) An un-informed Puder was doing MMA style (submission) A clueless referee was doing WWE style pins (3 second) What a mess.
Always thought Puder was right on this since that whole segment was designed to humiliate all of them. Puder wasn’t going for it and I can’t blame him.
and they legitmately attacked him at the rumble for no reason besides being a cocky kid, of course he didnt make it. kurt's the asshole in the situation honestly
Not saying I’m on Puder’s side on the whole the thing, but isn’t the main event of the Royal Rumble, the actual Royal Rumble match? I’ve always thought that too
Kurt can continue to keep making all the excuses that he wants ,but deep down he knows the truth is that he didn’t take Daniel Puder seriously.He got locked into a Kimura, and if it wasn’t for the ref saving his ass with a 3 count(Puder’s shoulders weren’t fully down too) he would of tapped or have his arm snapped.
It was supposed to be an amateur match. Daniel shouldn’t have even put a submission on during that match. Daniel had Kurt locked in and in a bad way, Kurt managed to get Daniel on his back shoulders flat and actually had to yell at the referee to acknowledge the pin. Unfortunately the referee failed to remember it was an amateur match and only a one count was required and counted to three.
One of the things that makes me fume is that when people tell this story, including Angle himself, they leave out that Angle FUCKED UP the guy before Puder. Hurt him bad (broke his ribs I think) and then called out his buddy, Daniel Puder. Was Puder's response unprofessional? Absolutely. But he was giving Angle a recipt for being such a cunt to that first poor guy (who's name I can't even remember). Angle is one of the GOATs, no disrespect, but this was a shitty think he did.
The mans name was Chris Nawrocki. he fought angle before Daniel Punder and I have to say this story is all I here about. It's brought up in literally every discussion. I actually can't comment on that particular match because i can't seem to find it on the internet. Chris is fine btw, saw on IMDB that he was acting. Every post and article is about how an evil kurt angle shoots on a guy and broke his ribs, sending him the hospital and how daniel just wouldn't take it and showed Angle how a REAL fighter does it. Angle has daniel on the ground against the ropoes, in a guillotine. If Angle was out to put jabronis in the hospital he could have. all i have seen is one guy doing all the offense (Angle) and the other guy literally on the ropes. Angle goes for a throw and thats when the Kimura Lock/Key Lock is placed. All i see is someone going into busines for himself, or is too stupid to get how the busines operates.
Don't think it matters if it was a wrestling match or an MMA match. Shouldn't the TE contestants and Kurt know who's supposed to come out of those shoots the winner? It was probably supposed to be Kurt, so why would any of the TE contestatns (Puder, in this case) even think of trying to get over Kurt in this segment?
Kurt is one of the best ever but he tried to bully the new kids and got his ass handed to him and has been lying ever since. He should just admit it no one would lose respect for him since he’s a legend.
If daniel would be cool about everything, he might has better life career in wwe. Even kurt said he was a talented and decent wrestler. Daniel thought blaming kurt is the only way to make his right.
Puder definitely had the wrong attitude but Kurt also got part of this story wrong as far as the contract thing. Puder actually got screwed on his deal.
Kurt was never a honest person. His version of events always changes. Like in 2006 he was telling Vince he needed time off for health reasons or he will kill himself. Vince released him. Told him to get clean and come back anytime, guess what? He went straight to TNA and was such a wreckjob addict and DUI that his wife left him. He then started saying in shoot interviews that Vince fired him and how much the wwe sux blah blah Another one is Daniel pruder, I remember in older interviews he was saying how he met pruder at the airport and pruder tells him "I'm in the main event tonight at the RR" but recent years he is said that pruder told somebody or one of the boys that. Seriously he screwed Vince and his own career and deservingly wwe screw him his retirement match sent off and he knows it! Which is why he always get emotional recalling that day he lied to Vince to released him
this is Vince and Kurt's fault, not Daniel's fault. There was no rhyme or reason to do this angle (no pun intended) without an agent or booker going over the match with the Tough Enough contestants. This outcome was highly predictable.
I am not sure why a lesson in "shoots," where the pupils are a bunch of hyped up, ambitious young people, would be done on live television using an instructor who was not in his best physical health. It leads one to wonder if there is anything in professional wrestling that is done in a professional manner.
I’m still mad, as a fan, at Kurt for picking him in the first place, and not telling Puder the rules. But I get it; Bay Area boy thinks he can Bay Area in Stamford and finds out quickly that “the boys” don’t like when someone Bay Areas all over the locker room.
Apparently from Kurt's side of story we know that It was supposed to be a little wrestling match and whoever pinned their opponent down for 3 count would win so he wasn't guarding for a kimura lock, but who knows what's the truth just one thing's for sure everyone lost • Puder was trying embarrass an Olympic Champion so that his stock would skyrocket • Kurt was being cocky and challenged a contestant who had mma background whilst being out of his prime and not physically 100% fit (he just had another neck surgery and his upper body was F'd up) also Vince told him not to choose Puder And finally • WWE and Vince not learning from their mistakes of the past that this shit was never gonna work out after looking back at Brawl for all. WWE always hated those who went in the business for themselves and punished Puder afterwards for that.
Puder had no fault in this. Vince has fault for suggesting a shoot when he did not want the potential shoot opponent to do well against Angle but never outright saying that to the TE group, Angle has fault for not only agreeing to it but, despite being a physical wreck, going for the one guy Vince warned him about due to the guy having a legit MMA background and then being pissy when Puder actually managed to get him in a hold, and the bitter old wrestlers like Holly, Guerrero and Benoit have fault for their jealousy stemming from the TE people not having to live in their own cars for years while getting paid nearly nothing until they made it to WWE so they beat them up for real excusing it as tough love, not to mention all of the petty frat garbage happening backstage. Puder deserves to be highly commended for not seriously hurting Angle when he easily could have, and for not hurting any of the others by responding in kind when they were shooting at him during the Royal Rumble. Just imagine Puder throwing legit hits towards little Eddie and Chris who couldn't fight for real to save their lifes, which is what most ex MMA fighters would have instinctively done. After getting chewed out by Vince, Angle and others for "overperforming" in a shoot segment and getting beat up for real by a bunch of bitter twats live in the ring, you damn right the kid was entitled to more money if they wanted to keep him around.
Is that you Daniel? Jeez could you brain that guy anymore? He was a punk in a business that doesn't like punks. It was a bad situation but his ego and attitude absolutely were part of it and he was never gonna last with his inflated ego.
Who is WWE's toughest ever wrestler? Let us know in the comments below.
Maybe an ex-UFC Heavyweight fucking champion, no?
Meng is the only answer.
Meng/Haku for sure but Rick Rude was also legendary for being one of the strongest and toughest guys, and also Kane during his prime was legit freakishly strong.
The Fiend
Meng, Rick Rude, Animal
Heard ppl didn’t want to f*ck with that tall dead ginger kid either.
Not many people talk about the real hero in this story, the referee, he needed to come up with a solution on the fly to save Kurt twice, to save him from injury and to save his reputation from embarrassment in front of millions who watched.
The ref was Jimmy Korderas and he generally sides with Puder's version of events funny enough.
Dont matter Puder wasnt suppose to shoot on the Veteran like he did perfect foreshadowing of where his career would go
@@sportsentertainedPuder did everything he could’ve possibly done wrong in WWE, no wonder he didn’t work out.
@@josephroseo8063that is an old way of thinking. Logically speaking if you're going to challenge someone and you're going to make it over to them the competition you should own your actions and not try to make excuses. There's no doubt about it that Kurt Angle screwed over Daniel puder because of Kurt's ego. I am a big fan of Eddie Guerrero's but there is no way to stay a short of believe that Eddie Guerrero, Hardcore Holly, and Chris Benoit forwarding and basically a hit job to try to embarrass Daniel puder. In my opinion Kurt Angle is a legend but this is an action that definitely tranish legacy so did it tranish Legacy of Eddie Guerrero
@@mattj4362you order from Beverly lift up his contract and he was booked poorly then if you're not paid has your contract States you weren't going to want actually say you're going to pay fairly their next concert
Every story Kurt Angle has ever told starts or ends with “I had just had neck surgery”
I mean it's a pretty big deal though to be still wrestling
Probably because most of these story’s take place when he had to be perc Angle in which his neck, which is in extreme fuckin pain, prevents him from doing stuff
And he ain’t lying lol
@@9west1sac6boss he is
With a broken freakin neck
Kurt was so successful because despite being a legit badass, was NEVER a mark for himself. He was willing to not take himself seriously and be a goofball. And he was confident enough to do that, because despite his shenanigans,he could was one of the best wrestlers in the ring of all time. Probably in the top 20 of all time.
Defiantly top 20 all time… if we are talking about wrestling ability? Top 5 easily
@@micahsanders17 Top 5? I'm not sure, but it certainly could be argued. There have been so many great workers. Bret, Shawn, Perfect, Jericho, Flair, Steamboat, Owen, Savage,
@@tonykennedy8592 yeah, Angle literally won an Olympic gold medal in this field.. that puts him above everyone as far as pedigree.. he knew what to do and could stand toe to toe with anyone as far as pure athletic ability.. there is no doubt he is a top five wrestler
Kurt Angle #1
@@micahsanders17 Oh, as a pure wrestler? Then yes definitely number 1
Kurt: "Vince, I'm pretty messed up"
Vince: "We know you're hurt and we're gonna protect you. Don't pick Daniel"
Kurt: "Excuse me?"
The amount of people hating on Puder is insane, especially given.the fact that Kurt did this to himself
Hearing Kurt's version of events make me think, why on earth would Vince put him in that position when he was vulnerable?
Kurt's memory isn't the best, more rounded versions have been told by Bruce and JR. This still adds to it though. The tough enough guys were given tasks through the day, eating contest with pasta etc was one. Then they made them all run for miles, folk were spewing etc. Bruce Prichard kept an eye on who never ate a lot and who never put full effort into the run to blow them up. Puder was actually the second guy Angle faced, Angle was only supposed to wrestle one. He wrestled the right guy and won. He got on the mic amped up and said he could beat all of them. Puder stood up, Vince told him to avoid him because he'd been taking earlier challenges lightly so was full health. Angle was cleared for work but had also just legit wrestled someone. When Puder called him out, Angle went off script to save face. He should have said "Me and you, next week" or something. Instead the infamous moment happened
As we know from The attitude era Vince would never put any of his wrestlers in danger and their health was always a top priority just ask the wrestlers that work for him lol
Al Snow asked the same question over and over.
It’s all for a show it was all scripted like the Montreal screw job.
You believe Kurt? Kurt says "I took him down, and he got me in an armbar." That's a MF lie. You can see Puder get the arm bar on while they were standing. Kurt didn't take him down, Puder took him to the grown. Then he lifted Kurt off his feet, refs counted him out. You can clearly see it on video.
I agree with Al Snow's analysis of the entire situation. Not Kurt Angle's, and not Daniel Puder's. He states that this should've never happened. Wrestling is a WORK, folks. The blame lies with Vince McMahon who, as the promoter, should've known better. It's HIS television show. Putting wrestlers in a situation that you can't possibly control ON PURPOSE and ON LIVE TELEVISION? This isn't UFC and Tough Enough ain't the Ole Anderson School of Wrestling.
You would think he would have learned his lesson with "the brawl for it all" lol
@@briandelgado4985 Exactly! See this is why I sometimes question "the genius that is Vince McMahon" that this company is so quick to push on its cult-like fans. Like having a live shoot fight on Smackdown. WHO, exactly, does this benefit? If Angle was to beat Puder, congratulations. You had an Olympic gold medalist beat a rookie. If Puder was to beat Angle, congratulations. You had a rookie expose a respected veteran with a busted neck. This is wrestling booking 101: You try to make BOTH guys look as good as they can to draw MONEY!
I think that Vince might enjoy stirring shit up between his workers and watching them fight for real. And then push the winner because Vince likes legit badasses; that's why Faarooq and Bradshaw got a push as the Acolytes/APA despite fans not really giving much of a shit about them before that; Rocky was overshadowing Faarooq in the Nation, and Bradshaw wasn't even part of a memorable faction like the N.O.D., but instead was part of the New Blackjacks.
@@Trustme77 That's fine when you do that, but still, you work it in a controlled setting. I'll use Foley vs. Flair as an example. Legit heat between the 2 because Flair decided to shoot off his mummified mouth about Foley's style of wrestling in his book. Is Flair a "bad ass?" I'm sure he thinks he is. Is Foley a "bad ass?" He'd probably say "no," but the guy has proven time and again he can take a beating and still get up. Yet both were able to do business in the ring. This dude Puder had precisely ZERO knowledge OF the business. And then to put him in a shoot fight against Angle? There was no need for any of it.
@@PrimeEvilDean It seems to me that the best way to teach somebody about the business, if they don't know all the ins and outs of it, is to just tell them how things are supposed to be.
As opposed to "I'm in the main event" prompting a response of "KILL this disrespectful motherfucker!!!" Let me tell ya, I was really bad at carrying on conversations for a long time and I put my foot in my mouth more times than I can count. That's one more reason I don't like the idea of people like Angle, or Benoit, or Holly thinking that any time somebody puts his foot in his mouth without having first "paid his dues" that the only way to teach them better is to beat them up.
HBK was asked once about the ritual of shaking everybody's hand in the locker room, and he told a story which I think is relevant here. He said that when The Rockers arrived in the WWF, he and Marty didn't know anybody, and they were shy and they weren't going up to anybody to introduce themselves and shake hands. And then Dynamite Kid approached them and asked to talk to them in private.
Now, we all know of Dynamite's reputation as one of the biggest locker room bullies ever. But even Dynamite did not just decide to wail on Shawn and Marty thinking that would make them start acting the right way. Dynamite said something to the effect of "Guys, everybody expects you to shake hands with them when you get here, and to introduce yourself. If you don't do that, then they're going to think that you're stuck up."
And IIRC, The Rockers were like "Huh? We're not stuck up. We're just new here and we're nervous..."
And then Dynamite said "Well, the rest of the boys don't know that."
After that, Shawn and Marty knew that they were supposed to shake hands, and they did so.
So I'm thinking that maybe if someone just said to Puder "Dude, whether you know it or not, it's really easy for you to piss people off here. You've already got heat because of what happened with Kurt, and if you say that you're in the main event it comes across as you bragging and trying to act like you're better than everybody else. Yeah, I know it's the last match on the card, but try to imagine how it sounds for someone who just got here to say he's in the main event, when lots of these guys have never main evented in their careers. Whether you mean it this way or not, there's gonna be wrestlers here to take it as 'Haha, look at me, I'm a MAIN EVENTER and you schmucks who've been here for years aren't!'"
Maybe Puder takes the advice, maybe he doesn't. But that era in the WWF/WWE (apparently in WCW it wasn't as bad) where newcomers didn't get any instructions on how to act and got the shit kicked out of them as soon as they acted the wrong way was a really fucked up time, and I'm glad it's over.
What a disaster of a situation. People love to put the blame entirely on Puder for not going soft on Angle and letting him win easily. Everyone is to blame. Vince for even coming up with the idea for asking Kurt to shoot wrestle right after coming back from neck surgery, Kurt for even inviting Puder into the ring with him after already beating the other guy, and Puder himself for acting arrogant.
If this was meant to be an Olympic style match with pins only, that should have been make clear beforehand. Puder simply reacted based on his MMA training. I don't think he was aware of the rules. I think the main reason Puder's wrestling career didn't work out was his attitude, not because of the shoot match.
Puder had a pretty extensive amateur wrestling background. He 100% knew the rules and knew that an arm bar would have been illegal.
@@shopping_cart_central I'll have to watch the original segment again, but I am pretty sure they didn't specify that it was Olympic rules and not catch as catch can (which does allow submissions). Either way, terrible idea and shouldn't have happened.
Edit: Okay, I just rewatched it. The Tough Enough contestants had a burpee contest, which Chris Nawrocki won. Kurt Angle told him that the prize was "your first ever match, against me". After Kurt quickly pinned him, he asked if anyone else wanted to try, and Puder immediately raised his hand, with a somewhat arrogant look on his face. It was never mentioned on TV that this was an Olympic style match, let alone a shoot match or anything other than a standard WWE match. I don't know if they told the Tough Enough guys ahead of time backstage, but I'd be surprised. Olympic rules weren't really being followed anyways, since they weren't keeping score or using round time limits.
Also, I was surprised that Puder bragged about being in UFC even though he never fought there, he only fought in amateur and minor MMA leagues at the time.
My understanding is, the Puder thing was unplanned, Angle went off script and challenged the whole crew, Puder raised his hand, and they got into a real scuffle on Live TV.
But when have they ever used arm bars or UFC submission holds in the WWE? They're competing for a WWE contract. It's in front of a ton of screaming WWE fans. Puder just watched a match that went for a pin. He couldn't just overpower Angle and get a pin so he decided to switch to an MMA submission. Everyone justifying his actions are forgetting that whatever else it was, it was wrestling - not MMA. And WWE wrestling at that. If it was me, I would have gone for overselling Angle's move like Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan.
@@anonaguy3008 He performed a hold known as a figure four armlock, double wrist lock, or key lock. This is a traditional wrestling hold that comes from catch as catch can, which is a form of shoot wrestling that evolved into modern professional wrestling. Watch some matches from the 1930s-1970s, this hold was fairly common, but it was usually not applied full force, it was mostly used as a rest hold, part of a takedown, or transition move. I don't think I've ever seen it used as a finishing move in a worked match. Wrestlers like Lou Thesz used it all the time. It still is used occasionally in more technical matches. I'm pretty sure I've seen Bret Hart use it a few times.
I'm not defending Puder at all. He was arrogant and challenged Kurt, most likely because he wanted to show off and make himself look like a big shot. Kurt wasn't supposed to issue an open challenge, he was only supposed to challenge the winner of the burpee contest. Still a terrible idea considering that he was still recovering from a series of injuries. He had no business shoot wrestling anyone. They should have planned better.
I think overselling like Shawn Michaels did to Hulk Hogan would have gone over poorly as well, and would have make Kurt look almost as foolish.
Also, keep in mind that supposedly Kurt hurt the other guy. The whole thing should have never happened.
I love Kurt but this a "2 wrongs don't make a right" deal for me. The TE contestants were treated like shite unnecessarily and there was a air of bullying in those days that was painted over as hazing.
They all went through it, if you wanna be an ass then it will probably just be tougher on you. I’m not gonna pick a side but if you watch puder then you can see what Kurt Iis talking about. He’s an ass and then he thought he was better than he really was. He was entitled.
If you ever played on legit sports team in the late 90’s/early 2000’s then you’d know this was just basic routine. My football coach once lied to the entire team and started off our 2-a-day practice by saying that someone stole his car keys from a bag that he’d purposely left sitting out in the gymnasium. Nobody spoke up so he told us to all do bear crawls until he got bored. After the bear crawls he told us to go get some water from the garden hose that he “forgot” to put out & hook up. He then laughed and told us to run laps around the track until he got bored.
Finally at the end of practice he reached into his front pocket of his shorts and pulled out his keys before saying he was proud of us for not lying to get out of hard work & for gutting it out. It was hours of hell, but a team building exercise.
Sounds like your coach was a moody prick.
Just read the ridiculous shi t they made these kids do, forcefeeding them between circuits just to make them throw it back up, no "legit" professional athletic camp would ever do that. Old inadequate jocks trying to pick on the newbiew, and Angle nearly got his arm broken for it, by a "legit" fighter
@@geedee1264Kurt Angle would’ve legitimately stuck Daniels head up his ass if he wanted to. Don’t be a mark
Basically Daniel Puder had the created character in WWE games story mode gimmick.
This made me laugh SO hard ☠️☠️
My original position on this has not changed: if you don't want a guy to shoot on you, then do not tell him to shoot on you. And Kurt had told the whole group to try shooting on him. So he got shot on and almost had his arm broken. He has nobody to blame but himself and maybe Vince for setting the thing up in the first place. I like Kurt's matches as much as anybody, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with him that the right way to deal with someone is to legit beat him up in the ring; even Shawn Michaels, who isn't always the nicest guy, has said that shooting on someone in the ring isn't professional and that if you're mad enough to fight someone for real you should do it in the back the way Booker T and Batista did.
Agreed. Too many fanboys and hero worshipping. People will just automatically agree with their favorite.
It was a wrestling match not an mma fight nobody uses a kamara in wrestling none of them took it seriously that's why puder got the shit chopped out of him that's why big show smacked one of them you act like they were victims. But it's how the business is you take it seriously it's in the name tough enough the only one who took it seriously was miz. Now look at were he is former wwe champion married to one of the hottest women in the world and hes rich while the others aren't relevant. The point is if you have a job you do what you're told you dont go into business for yourself that's why big show got mad. It was worse in the territory days.
I also I just watched the segment again, at no point does Kurt mention that it’s going to be an “amateur wrestling” match or mentions that it’s under Greco Roman or amateur rules. He brought that on himself. Jimmy Korderas really bailed him out
@@becominghuman3561 kurt said he was going to pin them like he did the first guy tell me what mma fight has pins it was a shoot wrestling match not an mma fight
@@KAR5AVATARGT he did not say anything or announce on the mic he was going to “pin” anyone. He said a match. You can submit people in pro wrestling. Again he never mentioned it was under Greco Roman rules, or amateur rules. So again, Kurt Angle brought it on himself
The early TE seasons were during the “Ruthless Aggression” era and the contestants were bullied and hazed nonstop. They were presented as “less than”, so no one thought Puder (an MMA fighter) could beat Kurt. It was a bad decision by WWE and a result of the toxic culture back then.
I'm pretty sure the first season was in the attitude era
@@Tri7on the first two were. The 3rd one and the diva searches were during the RA era. Both eras were not anything like they are today.
Is it fair to say Kurt Angle is T10 ever? One of the most complete all-around performers ever.
I don't know if he'd be in my own top 10, but I can't fault anyone for bringing him up in that conversation. He was a generational talent for sure.
If you're talking about Attitude Era, easily top 5 talent.
I personally think he's the absolute best well rounded wrestler of all time when it comes to character being face or heel and along with his in ring work.
@@ejayemike6541defo top 3. Pure wrestling I'd go. Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle in whatever order.
repeat champion in multiple organisations, genuinely good on the mic and in the ring…. yeah up there
I love angle. But he is very bitter about this incident
Absolutly, saying he sucks, that he had an ego problem (like no other wrestlers has en ego...). He basically told that Puder got beat up by Benoit/Guerrero and that bully Holly just because he said that he was in the main event (which it is)... On top of that, they told him not to pick Puder but he did it anyway knowing his body was not in great shape.
Uh huh
@@Silver_Elve well if he hadn’t sucked as a wrestler he would have lasted longer
He would have broken his arms and put him on the shelf making him lose paychecks and the match with Shawn Michaels at WM. And that Kurt was already in extreme pain. You would be bitter too
@@ITSHIM1294 I think he's more bitter of the fact he got done by a rookie
Al Snow said it best. "It never shoulda not been a work" as soon as it's not a work anything can happen. Kurt embarrasses that kid 99 times out of 100. But that was the 1 time. And it was on national tv
Well it was on a taped show. But whatever.
@@Rschr101 national T.V
Just rewatched it. Angle was in control for most of it. Puder nearly got a whizzer on from Amateur Wrestling and then managed to get a Double Wrist Lock/Kimura (not a figure four armlock as I’ve heard others call it) from Catch/BJJ.
However the shoulders being pinned is key here.
In Professional Wrestling if the shoulders are down…you count the pin.
Think back to Hart vs Piper at Wrestlemania.
Piper got the sleeper applied.
Hart used the turnbuckle to roll backwards meaning a submission and pin were being applied simultaneously, and got the pin fall.
The only controversy here as far as I can see is…what a dumb angle and Angle himself wasn’t being smart going for the one guy he was told not to.
Iirc Puders shoulders weren't pinned though..
I don't know if Puder was held back due to the incident or not. I do know that he couldn't do any of the talking aspect of it. Not, a promo, not a conversation, nothing. He was awkward as hell in that department. And fair play, it's nerve racking to talk live on camera in front of millions. But that was gonna be a big problem from him whether Kurt held him back or not
Whole situation taking both sides into account: There was some miscommunication and lack of communication that caused Puter to do something he wasn't supposed to, then got a huge head about what he saw as beating Kurt Angle, never grasped what he did wrong in that situation (he kinda went into business for himself), and his ego ended his career more than anything. He just didn't seem to grasp that pro-wrestling is about a pair of people working together and trusting the other guy in the ring to do his part. You can tell this in interviews Puter has done about this over the years (though that might have been partially theatrics).
However if there was clearer instructions at the time backstage Puter might have played along.
Without looking back at it, I sure thought Kurt wrestled someone else first...and then asked "anyone else" and Puder accepted, which he was likely not supposed to do. You could tell by how PO'd Kurt was afterwards! I don't see his story holding true at all if the basics aren't right. Referee's story of events!: th-cam.com/video/oLKt9Df7PBQ/w-d-xo.html
So it was Kurt's fault for ignoring Vince.
Yep.
Well, no. It was the company's fault for thinking it was a good idea to do these unscripted challenges with people who are literally trying to win a competition to be a wrestler. Happened with the Big Show bodyslam challenge as well with guys no-selling because nobody told them they are supposed to sell, they thought they had to be tough and take it like a man which pissed off Big Show to the point where he was actually trying to hurt them. If you throw out a challenge like "Who wants to wrestle Kurt Angle?" and don't tell them they're supposed to lose, what are you expecting to happen?
@@MinimiMax but if he hadn't have picked Puder he would have been fine
No Puter was trying to submit him so it’s his fault
No…. It was Vinces fault for putting a clearly injured man into that situation with someone who was inexperienced…
From what I hear, that season of Tough Enough was basically Brawl for All Lite. Just with less direction. I don't even remember what the rules of that match was, but the way Kurt was wrestling, it was basically an unofficial mat wrestling match, so Puder putting on a submission hold like that on wasn't exactly good strategy. It'd be like a kick boxer kicking a regular boxer in a standard boxing match. As for Puder's attitude, I've heard more people refer to Puder's attitude more often, so it doesn't surprise me that he thought he could make more money despite only winning Tough Enough.
Watch the capture the flag challenge from that season, it was supposed to be closer to a work, but JR said that vince himself told the Basham Brothers 10 minutes before the challenge that if anyone got the flag, that they'd be fired, and thus, it turned into a shoot real fast.
Kurt leaned him back and got the "1, 2, 3"? Not to argue the technicalities of wrestling with someone who won a gold medal in it with a broken freaking neck but wasn't Daniel's shoulders off the mat?
It was simply to end it before something else entirely began. Off the mat or not the ref and angle were going to squash that quick.
Yeah because he put Angle in a legit key-lock and like Kurt said wouldve legit broke his arm
Puder was gonna break his arm and the ref was smart enough to count the pin
The video shows him square in his back, he just has both shoulder “up” staying on the hold. So in professional wrestling no need to kick out, just raise you arm up? No, he was pinned.
@@robertt9342 Yeah to end the shoot segment or Kurt goes out with a legit broken arm
Puder was lucky Drew and Walter weren't in that Rumble 🤣
He should have said no to the segment. Al Snow warned Vince about it.
PUDER 3:16 says, “I nearly broke your freakin’ arm!”
Would love you to bring him on tour again, unfortunately missed the tour due to illness. He has so many interesting stories!
So the professionals became unprofessional and decided to bully. Makes sense.
Poor Kurt got his ego checked.
his first word about it being an injury mention tells everything about it lol
Foreal bro got packed up by the young dude
Uh huh
@@goldtaker95 He genuinely did though?///it was meant to be a bit of wrestling. not an MMA match
FACTS!
So they shot on him because he said he was in the main event instead of saying he was in the Rumble match. Yeah, that punishment fits the crime EXACTLY, doesn't it? 🙄Between this and Kurt saying in a different interview that Bob Holly only beat up guys who "deserved it" (Matt Cappotelli deserved it why, exactly?), Angle is coming across as either just one more locker room bully or somebody who approves of that shit. I'm starting to think that not only is it a good idea to never meet your heroes, it's also a good idea never to listen to them.
Eddie guerrero wouldn't bully anyone.I am sure daniel had it coming
The situation with Bob Holly beating the lights out of Matt Cappotelli (not justifying his actions) is that these guys are competing for a contract for a spot in one of the highest levels of Pro Wrestling despite having no prior experience in the business. It's the reason why a ton of people hated the Miz back then, because you had guys in the locker room who busted their ass for years trying to get where they are only for a scrawny guy with no experience or proper training get put in a similar program.
Daniel Puder had it coming with his attitude. If he wanted to be in the WWE as a tough guy, he didn't need to enter a contest where contestants get humiliated. The guy painted himself as a target.
@@vDeadbolt Bob Holly was a complete bastard backstage by most accounts, a total piece of shit. There's no excuse for the way he treated newcomers.
The way the Miz was treated was complete clownery, too, as he was actually good in ring and on mic and he got heat because of how he got there, and look at him now, guaranteed hall of famer. Maybe the egos were too big in the locker room.
1:57 "He thought I was the reason he didn't work out in WWE. That's not true. He just sucked as a wrestler."
3:39 "He was a talented kid. He really was."
Talented in mma. Not in everything else needed to succeed as a wrestler
I was going to say the same he was talented for sure. But there is so much more to wrestling than being able to go in the ring
@@GoldenleyendKurt is just saying a nice cliche at the end. He was talking about his wrestling career ending.
Don't see the issue here. It's like being really smart and having a tactical mind, but still being bad at chess.
@@BitestheStuffWell if he can't wrestle and can't handle backstage politics, he sucks at most things then.
Angle and crew thought he was entitled to be an asshole to the TE contestants and that Puder wasn't allowed to have an attitude
So it was just Angle's ego in the first place which is led that horrible situation. Benoit, Guerrero, Angle and Holly acted like bullies at RR07. No matter how arrogant the rookie is, settle all differences off camera, kids.
RR05
Benoit, Guerrero and Holly might have chopped Puder's chest into a bloody pulp during the Rumble but it happened within a save environment knowing he won't shoot back. Put them in a 1 on 1 regular wrestling match and I doubt they would have taken any liberties like that with him, not to mention a shoot match.
Benoit is a tough psycho, he can school Puder. Bob Holly is known for his stiffness, Puder wouldn't stand a chance with him also. Only Guerrero is the possible guy to at least Puder have a chance with. Don't treat these pro-wrestlers like they can't fight for their life. They are fully trained to shoot also.
@@jamesromualdez1405 LOL Puder is MMA, totally different story than a wrestler. You lost me already at calling Bob Holly stiff
@@martifrey3357 Bob Holly would run circles with Daniel Puder, boy.
@@jamesromualdez1405 LMAO keep on dreaming, Puder is not Capotelli
@@martifrey3357 keep dreaming on Puder boy, Bob Holly would've destroyed that bloke
From what I gather is that Kurt’s job was to ruffle the feathers of the rookies, Kurt then unfortunately picked the one guy that could out shoot him in the ring. So Daniel Puder got NUCLEAR HEAT for bragging about out shooting Angle.
Then Puder’s career in WWE was in dead water as he had fucking NUCLEAR HEAT with the locker room, and at Royal Rumble 2005 Vince puts Puder in the Rumble with Benoit, Eddie and Hardcore Holly all kicking the shit out of Puder.
Puder then gets released.
Angle is fucking great, one of the greatest to ever lace a pair of boots, but he always tries to keep his pride and won’t say that Puder just had him on that day, instead he makes excuses about it for his pride.
Regardless Kurt angle broke his neck twice at that point and puder bragged about beating a almost cripple for years.
If Puder would have kept his mouth shut, he would have had a 10 year career in WWE. A smart man would have let everyone else do the talking. Everybody saw what happened. They didn't need Puder telling them. Puder talking just made him look like an asshole.
Well said. Kurt simply got beat. I personally think it's pathetic if the locker room wants to retaliate on Daniel puder for simply doing his job but with chickenshit to by Daniel puder one on one
@@douglasdoyle8944well first of all regardless Kurt Angles in Olympic gold medalist and regardless Kurt Angle enter that situation what was the one that made the challenge. You cannot seacret was not going hard on the challengers because fractured one of the toughest enough challenges named Chris his ribs
Puder cannot out shoot angle lol
This is wrestling dude. You don't come in and actually try to hurt someone. Especially a vet guy thats already dealing with serious injuries.
EXACTLY!!!!!
That vet broke one of he rookie's ribs
Listening to these stories make me respect kurt even more dude was doing these matches basically injured putting on classic matches at that
Kurt: He sucked as a wrestler
Also Kurt: He was a talented kid.
Love ya Kurt, but pick one
Maybe talented as a fighter but as a WWE performer he sucked.
Havent talent and being skilled are totally different things my friend.
probably meant he had potential cuz he was athletic. but he had no personality, at all. it takes time to learn the craft tbf most people start off not so entertaining in the ring
I'd ask for more money too to stay at the company with all the backstage bs
Then your a fool cuz unless you can prove your worth what the contract offers you aint getting nothing
AEW? The one where it’s like a playground and kids are jumping each other and running around doing stupid shit?
@@ondoidlifestyle5754 This video nor my comment has nothing to do with AEW but thanks for your random tribalism outburst
You do know this videos regarding an incident that happened in the early 2000s right??
You just played yourself, AEW wasn't even founded yet back during the time this incident took place between Kurt and purer.
You just saying random stuff
It's not "his truth" it would be "his perspective" of what happened. The truth may or may not align with his perspective.
Whatever makes you feel better
Whatever you got to tell yourself
Glad to see he still isn’t bitter!
Kurt got beat and bested....by a rookie...his ego was hurt that why his mad 😂😂😂😂
So Puder got punished for Kurt wanting to test himself when he wasn't physically able.
Also, playing off what they did as fucking with him, when it was a straight up assault on TV.
No, he got punished for his piss poor attitude. Did you not listen to what Angle was saying?
Sure looked like Benoit/Eddie/Hardcore Holly were retaliating on behalf of Kurt. That was a straight mauling for 10 minutes on a guy whonwasn't allowed to defend himself in a shoot situation. I like Kurt, but he was outshined by a rookie and the ref came up with a finish on the fly to save his reputation and his arm. That should've been the end of it. That beatdown they gave him at Royal Rumble 100% was tied to this incident. Maybe Puder deserved some commupence, but not THAT.
@@ffryanit's not having a poor attitude to consider the main match the main event if you're in a pay-per-view called the Royal Rumble logically speaking what is the main event of the Royal Rumble the Royal Rumble match do taking pride in your work and saying you're in the main event is not an insult it's being grateful and aware
@@Gamblesteincuter should not have been punished for it if anything the three wrestlers that mauled him should have been punished. This should have served as a teachable moment for Vince but rather than learn from his mistakes then chooses to blame others and sabotage others
@@ffryanyou believe Kurt isn’t being dishonest? Have some nuance
Are we supposed to blame Puder for this? He was already green as grass, unwise to the business, so when he goes out there and gets challenged to a legitimate shoot with unclear rules, what else is he supposed to do?
Kurt is still bitter about it, you should've just listened to Vince and not picked Puder, and you could've been humble and explained to him man to man that you'll try each other later, but now you're not in the proper condition to do so. No shame in that, any competitor would want their opponent to be at their best possible condition
Kurt Angle is the greatest wrestler of all time.
Puder beat him legit. I can still hear his butthurtness. This is embarassing.
Kurt is still great. But should be so honest to respect, that there are other people which skill like Puder too
When you have a broken neck and your arms aren't working straight, you don't pick the guy who's a legit wrestler who is new to the business and naive and expect him to "know" and "learn" the business. This interview makes Angle look like a bully
Dude is popping pills and pretending to be on top shape on tv…. I mean it’s not hard to believe he got carried away in the moment.
I haven't worked in the business and even I know you're not supposed to be a jackass like that
Lol cmon Kurt I love ya but those Tough Enough kids got hazed every damn season. You knew what you were doing. Why not be honest? Puder kicked your ass after you asked for it. Plain and simple.
The fact that Puder "just happened" to be there with those three guys makes me think whoever was in charge of the order of appearance (Patterson?) wanted Puder to be given his receipt.
Patterson was in charge of appearance but it was rumored by JR that Bruce Pritchard noticed that Puder had caught on to what they were trying to do to the contestants that day(they had them do a pasta eating challenge, followed by a miles long run, and Daniel caught on during the first part, came in last on purpose for the pasta eating challenge, and was the only contestant not to spew during the running challenge, it's also been speculated by JR that Puder lost the Burpee challenge on purpose, pissing off the higher ups) so Bruce told Vince about it, and Vince warned Angle not to choose Puder. There was supposed to be no receipt given
You just got embarrassed, stop making excuses.
I find it funny the referee ended it like Angle won, he let Angle cheat. but I love how Angle now claims he was already hurt lol He got man handled by a kid and can't deal with it
Daniel Pruder got one of the worst receipts I can imagine though.
There has to be nothing scarier than getting chopped by Eddie and Benoit for 5 minutes, and then hearing Bob Holly’s music hit.
Vince McMahon TOLD Kurt not to pick Daniel Puder because he’s an actual fighter! KURT didn’t listen. He got what he got.
On that particular moment on Smackdown, the referee saved Angle and his reputation because Puder was on the verge of breaking his arm.
Kurt is one of my fav wrestlers but the Puder situation is his own foolishness. Don't ask the one guy you were warned not to shoot wrestle you, to step in the ring, and then get mad when he does some MMA crap on you. Play stupid games win stupid prizes Kurt.
Al Snow’s interview was very interesting to watch re this incident.
Kurt is the Real Deal that's why I looked up to him as a kid
I think Angle's truth remains untold.
People throwing stuopid hate but Kurt was not going for a SUB, he was aiming for a x3 tap. The kid wanted to look good by going for a SUB no matter at all cost. Sadly Kurt won. It's honest, it's fair and Kurt didn't lose. I don't understand the comments man. Kurt probably could finish off most UFC fighters had Kurt gone MMA hardcore, not wwe.
freestyle wrestling is NOT mma submission wrestling. different scoring. I was in highschool wrestling and was told as much "this isn't pro wrestling, dont try to slam your opponent, we go by points"
Huge angle fan but he sounds bitter here
you took him down "what?" puder controlled kurt on the way to the mat and purposely,but it hes fault kurt's pride didnt listen to vince,he had "NO CHANCE"
Kurt handled this like a boss. The kid singlehandedly put Kurt’s career in jeopardy by essentially cheating in an amateur wrestling match. In case anybody didn’t know…you can’t put a guy in a key-lock and try and snap his arm in half when you’re amateur wrestling. Technically Kurt did win as he pinned him shoulders to the mat. The incident never should have happened in the first place, but Puder earned his ass whooping.
So...
An un-healthy Angle was doing amateur wrestling (1 second pins)
An un-informed Puder was doing MMA style (submission)
A clueless referee was doing WWE style pins (3 second)
What a mess.
I believed him when I was a kid. I truly thought all the things he sold was true. Underrated great seller
Always thought Puder was right on this since that whole segment was designed to humiliate all of them. Puder wasn’t going for it and I can’t blame him.
and they legitmately attacked him at the rumble for no reason besides being a cocky kid, of course he didnt make it. kurt's the asshole in the situation honestly
A shoot is a shoot. Vince told Kurt not to pick him, so it was Kurt's fault.
@@rima7286 False. It's a pinfall match. Don't try & submit one of the companies top guys at the time. 100% on Puder for not playing ball.
@@mattd9881wasn't playing ball when Kurt broke one of the guys ribs was it playing ball when Kurt challenge them
@@rolandobaluja7504 How could Puder know that? He have xray vision? Dummy boy.
How could you NOT believe in Kurt Angle.
Not saying I’m on Puder’s side on the whole the thing, but isn’t the main event of the Royal Rumble, the actual Royal Rumble match? I’ve always thought that too
Kurt can continue to keep making all the excuses that he wants ,but deep down he knows the truth is that he didn’t take Daniel Puder seriously.He got locked into a Kimura, and if it wasn’t for the ref saving his ass with a 3 count(Puder’s shoulders weren’t fully down too) he would of tapped or have his arm snapped.
I loved Kurt for years but everything he said was BS... from the excuses to having nothing to do with the Royal Rumble
Glad I’m not the only one who can see though this BS
This was before perc angle
No. He probably been "perc angle" since he won the Gold medal with a broken freaking neck.
imagine if they just did a worked shoot instead of the candid camera bullcrap Vince likes so much
It was supposed to be an amateur match. Daniel shouldn’t have even put a submission on during that match. Daniel had Kurt locked in and in a bad way, Kurt managed to get Daniel on his back shoulders flat and actually had to yell at the referee to acknowledge the pin. Unfortunately the referee failed to remember it was an amateur match and only a one count was required and counted to three.
Puder pulling that stunt told every veteran he was willing to throw them under the bus to put himself over
One of the things that makes me fume is that when people tell this story, including Angle himself, they leave out that Angle FUCKED UP the guy before Puder. Hurt him bad (broke his ribs I think) and then called out his buddy, Daniel Puder. Was Puder's response unprofessional? Absolutely. But he was giving Angle a recipt for being such a cunt to that first poor guy (who's name I can't even remember). Angle is one of the GOATs, no disrespect, but this was a shitty think he did.
The mans name was Chris Nawrocki. he fought angle before Daniel Punder and I have to say this story is all I here about. It's brought up in literally every discussion.
I actually can't comment on that particular match because i can't seem to find it on the internet. Chris is fine btw, saw on IMDB that he was acting.
Every post and article is about how an evil kurt angle shoots on a guy and broke his ribs, sending him the hospital and how daniel just wouldn't take it and showed Angle how a REAL fighter does it. Angle has daniel on the ground against the ropoes, in a guillotine. If Angle was out to put jabronis in the hospital he could have. all i have seen is one guy doing all the offense (Angle) and the other guy literally on the ropes. Angle goes for a throw and thats when the Kimura Lock/Key Lock is placed.
All i see is someone going into busines for himself, or is too stupid to get how the busines operates.
Al Snow said they offered him less money so he didn't take it.
So he first says he sucked, then he said he was talented. Pick one!
" My arms didn't work and I couldn't do push ups" You had a match with Big Show the next week. Kurt is full of shit.
Uhhhh Big Show didn’t move for him?
Don't think it matters if it was a wrestling match or an MMA match. Shouldn't the TE contestants and Kurt know who's supposed to come out of those shoots the winner? It was probably supposed to be Kurt, so why would any of the TE contestatns (Puder, in this case) even think of trying to get over Kurt in this segment?
Kurt is one of the best ever but he tried to bully the new kids and got his ass handed to him and has been lying ever since. He should just admit it no one would lose respect for him since he’s a legend.
He legit did have neck surgery right around that time.
He won though
thats whole thing with legit wwe stars when going to tough enough bully them , nothing new, big shown did it , triple H, bob holly , billy gun
Kurt made sure and put his disclaimer that he couldn't do 5 push-ups because he was injured...but was somehow wrestling multiple men...😂😂😂
So he sucked and was talented? Dude cant make up his mind
If daniel would be cool about everything, he might has better life career in wwe. Even kurt said he was a talented and decent wrestler. Daniel thought blaming kurt is the only way to make his right.
This is a different story than Kurt has told in the past
Puder definitely had the wrong attitude but Kurt also got part of this story wrong as far as the contract thing. Puder actually got screwed on his deal.
Kurt was never a honest person. His version of events always changes. Like in 2006 he was telling Vince he needed time off for health reasons or he will kill himself. Vince released him. Told him to get clean and come back anytime, guess what? He went straight to TNA and was such a wreckjob addict and DUI that his wife left him. He then started saying in shoot interviews that Vince fired him and how much the wwe sux blah blah
Another one is Daniel pruder, I remember in older interviews he was saying how he met pruder at the airport and pruder tells him "I'm in the main event tonight at the RR" but recent years he is said that pruder told somebody or one of the boys that. Seriously he screwed Vince and his own career and deservingly wwe screw him his retirement match sent off and he knows it! Which is why he always get emotional recalling that day he lied to Vince to released him
Not reading all that😂
Is the Royal Rumble not the main event?
this is Vince and Kurt's fault, not Daniel's fault. There was no rhyme or reason to do this angle (no pun intended) without an agent or booker going over the match with the Tough Enough contestants. This outcome was highly predictable.
I am not sure why a lesson in "shoots," where the pupils are a bunch of hyped up, ambitious young people, would be done on live television using an instructor who was not in his best physical health. It leads one to wonder if there is anything in professional wrestling that is done in a professional manner.
..Puder had Angle plain and simple
And out of that whole shitstorm angle is still very professional and even credits Daniel for being a talented kid 👏
I’m still mad, as a fan, at Kurt for picking him in the first place, and not telling Puder the rules.
But I get it; Bay Area boy thinks he can Bay Area in Stamford and finds out quickly that “the boys” don’t like when someone Bay Areas all over the locker room.
Its a business at the end of the day. Its not about being cool about stuff when it comes to money
How is this untold? Its literally the same things ive heare in many diff interviews
Excuses
Apparently from Kurt's side of story we know that It was supposed to be a little wrestling match and whoever pinned their opponent down for 3 count would win so he wasn't guarding for a kimura lock, but who knows what's the truth just one thing's for sure everyone lost
• Puder was trying embarrass an Olympic Champion so that his stock would skyrocket
• Kurt was being cocky and challenged a contestant who had mma background whilst being out of his prime and not physically 100% fit (he just had another neck surgery and his upper body was F'd up) also Vince told him not to choose Puder
And finally
• WWE and Vince not learning from their mistakes of the past that this shit was never gonna work out after looking back at Brawl for all.
WWE always hated those who went in the business for themselves and punished Puder afterwards for that.
Puder had no fault in this. Vince has fault for suggesting a shoot when he did not want the potential shoot opponent to do well against Angle but never outright saying that to the TE group, Angle has fault for not only agreeing to it but, despite being a physical wreck, going for the one guy Vince warned him about due to the guy having a legit MMA background and then being pissy when Puder actually managed to get him in a hold, and the bitter old wrestlers like Holly, Guerrero and Benoit have fault for their jealousy stemming from the TE people not having to live in their own cars for years while getting paid nearly nothing until they made it to WWE so they beat them up for real excusing it as tough love, not to mention all of the petty frat garbage happening backstage.
Puder deserves to be highly commended for not seriously hurting Angle when he easily could have, and for not hurting any of the others by responding in kind when they were shooting at him during the Royal Rumble. Just imagine Puder throwing legit hits towards little Eddie and Chris who couldn't fight for real to save their lifes, which is what most ex MMA fighters would have instinctively done. After getting chewed out by Vince, Angle and others for "overperforming" in a shoot segment and getting beat up for real by a bunch of bitter twats live in the ring, you damn right the kid was entitled to more money if they wanted to keep him around.
Is that you Daniel? Jeez could you brain that guy anymore? He was a punk in a business that doesn't like punks. It was a bad situation but his ego and attitude absolutely were part of it and he was never gonna last with his inflated ego.
@@MarcusFenix50 Ha, yeah, can't make it in wrestling if you have an inflated ego, thats why all big stars were always so humble. Get out of here kid.
Benoit and Eddie got their Karma... and so did Kurt
He didn't pick him
You would literally have had to knock him out to pin 123 in a shoot fight Kurt that’s not adding up
Angle still lying about this. If it was supposed to be a straight wrestling match why did he guillotine Nawrocki twice?