Having owned a mini cooper for almost 20 years the electric mini was the first one I have considered for my first ev . But the minuscule battery and range really did not allow me.to buy it . I went for a used Kona 64 kw instead .. also thanks to all your videos on it and I must say i don't regret it ,.the range is really great with even more than 500 km . Anyway thanks for your work
Enjoyed your thoughts. I agree that new EV owners have a bit of a learning curve (which I just hit two months ago) to work around the GOM. I am now in the habit of just resetting the trip meter and doing the math based on mileage driven and battery % remaining.
I totally agree. The other day, I charged at a fast charger. I got a range of, wait for it, 155km (km not miles). I reached 155km with 37% left. My average is 12.5kWh/100km since the day I bought it which means a range of 233km - *exactly* WLTP :) The GOM is useless in the MINI. I only look at it to laugh now. I go by 30km/battery segment. Never let me down. I wouldn't normally care, except for the GPS calculation - as you describe. I made a complaint to MINI Australia, which got.....nowhere :)
Brave going out to Wroxham on a bank holiday. 100% agree with your rant on the GOM. Quite shocking that it's released into the open market like that. You can imagine the outcry if an ICE car's petrol gauge dropped 1/3rd of a tank when you plugged in a sat nav destination!
Yes same thing with my i3s. As soon as you set a nav destination the range drops massively. It happened just this weekend in fact. I was 110km from home with 63% which I knew would easily be enough and gom was showing around 150km, then I set the sat nav and insufficent range alert only 108km now. I'm used to it with the satnav so I paid no heed to it and slowly range overtook the distance remaining. I arrived home with it showing over 30km remaining. The satnav is supposed to take into account road type and terrain but whatever it does it calculates a really conservative range. The only consolation is if the sat nav says I have the range to get somewhere I can be pretty certain I do. Stop navigation and the more realistic gom will return almost immediately.
Just saw your video. I am a New level 3 mini owner of 3 weeks and first time EV owner. Shame on BMW Mini for not providing meaningful GOM information and causing range anxiety.
Unknown, depends how the software works. It might use the previously hidden battery capacity to mask degradation or it might just show lower range. Impossible to tell until it happens which is good news. No one has noticed it so its not a problem
Hi Nigel. Seeing that I haven't driven an EV as yet, due to cost and availability. What my take was on the rant and what I was thinking all along. Steps to take for a new EV driver: 1. Look at the quoted range that you will get with a pinch of salt, coriander, pepper and a swig of mixed herbs. 2. Take the available battery capacity and take away between 10 and 20%. The reasoning behind this is, the higher the speed the less range you'll have to because of the drag co-efficiency and energy needed to maintain speed. 3. Do test on smaller ranges and see what the efficiency is, add about 10-20% on that, to give yourself a margin. 4. Yes, repeat the test at different speed, and make certain that the speeds you are testing, equated to the speed of the country, and test the minimum as well as the maximum speeds that you will get. This is to ensure that you do not tick off other road users, and also do not feel stressed when you completed the trip. 5. Ensure that there are charging infrastructure, or have a backup plan with friends that lives on the routes, just in case you need to charge while testing. For that top up that is might be needed. 6. As you become more familiar with the vehicle that you are driving, start stretching the distances, till you feel confident with the vehicle you are driving. 7. Test the economy of the vehicle not just on flat surfaces, lucky for me, I do not live in an area which is predominantly flat, hills, inclines, declines, mountains are all around me. 8. Once you are comfortable with what you can do, do a longer test. Or take the vehicle to the max range that you feel comfortable with the security of knowing where you will charge for the test. 9. Gradually add the weight to the amount of what you will be doing on these trips. 10. Just in case you don't have a mathematic inclination of how to work out the range, find yourself in the ranges that you know you will be capable of doing and relax. Trust that you did all the test in different weather situations for the country that you are from. Yes, in winter we some days still get up to 18 degrees celsius, with the region I live in, the minimum would be around 5 maybe 6 degrees celsius, with wind and rain. Okay, I also know that one of the trip I would take, might take me to around 0 degrees, and that depends on if there is snow on the mountain tops and not to far from where I will end up. I also know that the summer temperatures can go into the 30's and very infrequently go to the 40's around where I live. And yes, the longer trip I do think of in summer hovers in the mid 30's to mid 40's. 11. Figure out what the battery does in each temperature range and know that between 15 and say 30 degrees celsius, you will have the best range, as the battery doesn't need to heat itself up to much and then the cooling down of the batteries wouldn't need that much power either. 12. If your budget allows, always goes for the spec of vehicle with the seat heaters and coolers if the vehicle permits, if not and you are taking on longer ranges, have it plugged in and condition the interior space to a temperature that is comfortable for you. Not just because this will save the vehicle from exerting more energy to heating or cooling down of the cabin, but will have you comfortable from the onset of the trip, also lessoning the stresses on the body and the mind. See, it isn't just you that have an analytical mind, some of us that haven't even had the experience of seeing EV's on the road that much. And I have seen an EV on the road. Yes, an EV, as the same car numerous times. A BMW i3, being utilized by some armed response unit. I always do these test with a vehicle, just so I know. When the need arises and I do have to take the vehicle on a longer trip, I can make it. The test is easier with a fossil, as you can throw in a gas canister to test the petrol light range out and how much that last section of emergency driving will give you. An EV, where do you get an inverter strong enough to go with you, that will charge it fast enough without hampering the range test. And how big or strong would the inverter have to be, for you as a driver not to freak out. I still think, the Mini Cooper SE would be a perfect car for me, and the range of the Volvo XC40 P8 Recharge, would easily do all the long range driving we do. Okay, it would work for that quarterly maybe annual ranges my sister would take for work functions. And on the plus side, she'll have 2 days, even if she only has a 3 point plug to charge, to refill the battery to get home again. As a daily, the Mini would work for me, and the BMW i3 would work for her. Or have I looked at this as incorrect. Because the BMW might also work for the ranges that she needs to travel, if 120Ah is bought with a range extender, but what is the point of the REx if you go for a BEV. As the point would be to lower the carbon footprint and more relaxed driving an EV gives you, isn't it. And all the reviews I have watched with people that are driving a REx, they don't use it, and it became an extra weight to carry around for the vehicle. Dead, unused weight. But it would give the added security of getting to your location with the fuel being the emergency to generate enough power just to finish. And a 3 point plug would recharge the vehicle much faster just because of the size of the battery. Am I now overthinking this whole thing, or am I just being rationale for a mathematically inclined person. Option A does this, Option B do that to exceed Option A. If neither works, put in backup plans for both, with a few extra on each option. The road used, the speed used, the regen set to what you think might give you the most range of the lot. Equate the distance with just a mere 10kph decrease in speed, and see what happens to a max of 40kph lower. Yes the speed limits in South Africa: Town/City - 60kph (37.5mph) The roads between areas - 70-80kph (44-50mph) Freeway/National Roads 80-120kph (50-75mph) What some people are driving at, because they feel they National speed limit is too little 140-160kph (87.5-100mph) up to even 200kph (125mph). Yes, I have done over the 125mph, but that was work related and chasing suspects in a police vehicle, racing track, and the first time driving a sports vehicle (last one, many moons ago, when I was less than half my age now). With age comes comfort of rather enjoying the scenery and not going to the max the car can do, even if you still want to know what it can do in an emergency, always look for a safe space to test this. Enjoy the remainder of the weekend and the week Nigel. Till I find a reason for a long comment, that might beat the longest I've sent. It's just the amount of information I have to give, and my thought tract has finished, otherwise, I feel like I gave an incomplete message.)
Love your longer messages. Sadly unlike us the masses seem to be blind folded needing perfect petrol replacements. Change doesn't come easy to some without a bit of hand holding. TH-cam and EV groups are a great place to gain information but they're not for everyone. The i3 120ah is perfectly capable. I3 rex less so but has the rex that you don't really want or want to use. My view is it encourages poor range management but it might be a bit of a collectable for the future. Rex isn't a common tech. Software annoys me as Ive a programmers background. Software always works its just whether the design is any good or whether it's poorly coded with faults. In this case it's incomplete and poorly designed. All the elements are there for it to be much better.
@@EVPuzzle I'm not a coder. And my programming knowledge is limited. Agree, the flaw in the programming. If it by any chance can read the topographical and speed limits as a guide, and adjust to speeds being used. It should be a better program. Being capable of knowing approximately what the battery levels would be on the trip. But few and far between, the vehicles works on an average consumption and not the topographical zone travelling in. Let me use the Chevrolet Bolt as an example. The vehicle's GOM states a minimum range, an approximate range, and a possible longer range. Not saying it uses topographics as a guide. But if the vehicles could give a range for max speeda used, a middle and the lower of the allowed speed (used speeds) as range calculators. The drivers whom are not inclined to do the calculations on their own, would know. Max speed would give them that approximate range, and if they could live with a slower speed, it would or could possibly mean that they can reach their destination faster or at the same time as if they had to stop for an additional charge to maintain the top max speed needed. Agreeing also, that the human race always looks for quick fixes, and wants the fixes to be in the levels that they are used to or better. The fix isn't going to be fast. Just like smaller vehicles were looked at as getting everyone in a car. That didn't happen with the Beetle. If I take the Fiat 500e, they have the smaller basically town car battery and the bigger longer range battery. The difference is, the original had small cars had enough space for occupants, if not all their luggage. Now we have small compact cars that does neither, and yes the safety has been increased for occupant safety. I'll stick with the knowledge, that nothing is perfect, and even the fossil vehicles which people take as perfect, have flaws. Is it, optimism, or do we call it blind faith in what people think, because they don't know any better.
I suspect bmw think too highly of themselves and won't touch it. For me as a developer I'd be ashamed the simple option of letting the driver choose... Use latest efficiency or recalculate based on x y z. Ignoring recent efficiency and the driver is crazy. The answer, don't use the BMW navigation system
I’ve been living with this, with the BMW i3s for 3 years now, down in Australia. For example the other day, just driving around the GOM said the range was 22km. Then we hit navigate home, which was 24km away. The GOM dropped to 9km & prompted insufficient range to make trip. But knowing the car had 11%, I knew I would make it, easy. No real elevation up or down on the trip. Ended up getting home with 3% & the GOM on 6km. Easily enough for the next day’s school run too.
I've noticed since if you navigate to a place via really slow roads, the range increases so presumably it sees a faster road and thinks it can't driver sensibly on faster roads
@@EVPuzzle I’ve found the faster the rout, the more KM you get back, they treat it more like an ICE’s consumption. Also it gets worse if you navigate to multiple destinations at once.
I think you are spot on. When I had the Zoe ZE40 I think the sat nav was set up for a 22 Kwh battery. It was always telling me I would fall short when I was going to arrive with 30 miles to spare (15% - that would be tight with a 22 kwh battery but not a 40 kwh battery). It was just an annoyance because I knew I was fine but someone new to EVs would have been sent into a bit of a panic and make an unnecessary stop adding a lot to an otherwise fairly short journey (my neighbour has a Mini but is scared of the idea of the EV because of all the stuff she's read about range anxiety, still plenty in the press to put people off). I have noticed that since going back to an ICE car again I always take the fastest route rather than a shorter route and I also drive at 70 on motorways instead of 60 (or less at times when range was tight). I liked the challenge of planning longer trips in my Zoe but I can see a lot of people wouldn't want that. I too think the Mini a great EV btw.
Robert, I think you have to learn to drive an EV by experimenting. We expect to just get in and drive but like anything new there's a learning curve. Learning efficiency and range and practising running low gives better confidence. I liken it to braking in snow. I always test brake to feel the skid safely before actually needing to in anger.
The more people that raise issues like this, the more the manufacturers might consider fixing this. If your at your Dealer and considering an E Mini let the dealer know about these issues, saying your having 2nd thoughts after watching this video and have they an idea when it will be fixed.
Ipace has best interior Mini is most fun Kona is best range, comfort and efficiency ENiro lose 2nd to Kona. Inside is nicer but outside isn't Ioniq is the most efficient I'd buy a Kona or eniro at a shot or an Ipace if I had the ££. Don't regret the Mini at all though so sub £30k it's the best EV
Thanks for the video. I understand that we can see only the battery % instead the gom. I never use the Navi in this car because it's inaccurate lot of animation but have old technology and still not have Android auto in 2021 this is also unacceptable...
Could the GOM have been more accurate than you thought? The range changed when you put in your destination, was it perhaps using real world topography to estimate range? On my Leaf I ignore the GOM and use the battery %, this rarely gets it wrong once down to 60% like you, I know I have a genuine 60 miles range until I need to charge.
I agree 100%...! I’ve had my Mini 2 EV for 8 months now and covered almost 10k miles. I find the battery charge to be pretty accurate, but the estimated range is virtually unusable. I appreciate it always being on the cautious side, but every time you reset the nav it resumes “worst case” and completely ignores your real world usage history. Some days I can flick it from Mid to Green+ (on a full charge) and it estimates another 9 or 10 miles available range, another day I can do it and it doesn’t change at all...! So flaky.....! (P.S. I absolutely love the car to bits! I’ve learned to ignore it’s GOM!)
Nigel, your example is extreme and I agree it is weird to drop 40% range just like that. Especially if your route takes you through country side, towns, etc. However recalculating the range based on route is actually quite good. I would really welcome it in Kona. Here is why: When I drive Kona locally I often get great efficiency - eg. 5mi/kwh. GOM often says eg.280mi with full battery. But when I'm going on looong trip (900miles) using only motorways I cannot reach first charger just 200mi away. I know that so either drive slower (60-65) or top up a little before Eurotunnel. But it would scare inexperienced driver thinking she/he can easily reach it only to find out late that this will not be possible. Especially in different country having local chargers, apps, etc.
Really?, 5% out estimate is something to complain about . You should try being perfect live in camera. It's not worth a retake . Surely you have something more important in life to worry about
I have not come across this before but i only trust the car for 115 miles in normal use and suggest a 10 mile margin is always allowed. A coffee and a quick charge on a 50kW rapid pod point at Lidls works for me so far!
No, I did the right thing. Since last summer I've not really been out of Norfolk until this trip and the Mini is perfect inside Norfolk and fun learning more about charging outside. Kona was just too good it was a bit boring. Even the auto steering is noticeable in the Kona, it's subtle but it eases the driving process. The Mini is all manual in that respect so more engaging. I only miss aspects of the Kona. In reality I used to charge the Kona in a tight range 60 to 85 %. Now I'm charging 30 to 100%. Same energy, same charging times just less extra just in case
Dont trust GOM. SOC is what matters in my humble opinion. There is a lot of lag and especially If you change your pace drastically like joining the highway its not to be trusted. At all. But your right. This might well be stressful for unexperienced EV drivers. It is what it is. A calculated guess.
BMW software is very poor. My i3 (38kW) showed 160 miles for 100%. After driving one gentle mile the GOM showed 106, and remained at that for the next twenty minutes of driving (newbies would assume it had broken). It then went down mile for mile. Far too many errors and inconsistencies in their software.
The mini electric is basically using the same internals as the bmw i3. I've got a 2016 model i3 and it's just as bad. Today I was driving home put the ac on full it said I had 70 miles of range, I turned it down 50% then it said I had 65 miles of range, it's constantly changing its mind, so I just ignore it now. In winter it says on a full charge I have 65 miles of range, put the heater on and you can halve that again. Now in summer it's giving me 90 miles of range. I only ever do 15 miles a day so that's why I put up with it.
After 6weeks with my Mini Cooper S Electric I can agree with you and everyone else the GOM is pessimistic and wavers around with its guesses way too much for it to be useful, and let’s face it with a smaller battery pack like the mini has the driver could do with more consistent range data. Does it matter to me? No, just like you I pay little attention to the GOM and I haven’t really used the sat nav yet. Is this a good EV? No, it is a fantastic EV. Not because of it’s range or it’s GOM but because it is just a joy to drive, especially on the rural Devon roads I drive. Small, nimble, smooth, with plenty of power so it can be really quick on the narrow, twisty roads where I live. In short I love mine. I do however wish there were more public chargers in the West Country, even those that do exist can be very unreliable. Sorry, that’s a bit off topic... 😆
Peugeot does the same thing, updates the GOM every 5 mins or so, quite scary first time on a motorway, dropped really quick! That said Kia (and one assumes Hyundai) have it sorted, if my (old style) Kia Soul EV says it's got 20 miles left then you can rely on it for sure!
My 40kW Leaf did exactly the same thing, not to the extent of your Mini, but it is frustrating your Sat Nav telling you you don't have the range when you know you do.
We have a Mini EV and every 90 miles we fill it up.I don't pay any attention to the GOM.This is how we drive in a early Zoe and my motorbike.Oh and I use good old fashioned maps as well.
Here's the short version..... Man starts journey with only just enough battery to get home, car says no best put some charge in it. Man tells world he wanted to risk it anyway.
I always thought something was a little odd with the GOM. Very early on Teslabjørn did his review and said the Mini had a good range, then other got their reviews out and said too short a range, Carwow ran a number of EVs on similar roads on the same day until empty and initially the Mini looked a bit poor but then carried on to a total of 154 miles showing 6 miles range for around 30 miles. I can only think that someone told the GOM programmer that because of warranty concerns we want owners scared to recharge way before needed. Some safety margin is good but too much is actually damaging the image of the car.
Tesla is just as bad - it doesn’t update at all, just bluntly says ‘x% battery = y miles’ based on EPA. So not even WLTP. They do have a fairly decent energy tracker using previous 15/30/instant consumption on a completely different screen that covers the map up, but for some unknown reason they don’t put that figure on the main range display.
The minimum range of new EVs seems to get bigger with every new model. Seems like a 250 - 300 mile range is the sweet spot for buying a new electric vehicle.
Having owned a mini cooper for almost 20 years the electric mini was the first one I have considered for my first ev . But the minuscule battery and range really did not allow me.to buy it . I went for a used Kona 64 kw instead .. also thanks to all your videos on it and I must say i don't regret it ,.the range is really great with even more than 500 km . Anyway thanks for your work
Hello Nigel. Our i3 GOM was a nightmare, it is such a revelation to now own a Kona Regards Mark
Good to see Wroxham and that great shop of Roys, been there many a time
Great rant, WAKE UP BMW and take note!
Enjoyed your thoughts. I agree that new EV owners have a bit of a learning curve (which I just hit two months ago) to work around the GOM. I am now in the habit of just resetting the trip meter and doing the math based on mileage driven and battery % remaining.
Glad to see Roys of Wroxham is still there! (I used to live in Tunstead)
He's still alive too I think. Must be getting on
Roy owns everything in Hoveton! Just recognised it from s holiday a couple of years ago in East Anglia. Thanks for that!
Roys is huge in Norfolk
Let's hope the manufacturer listens. My mate is looking at the mini electric, I will forward him your video.
Just don't be scared and have confidence in your own ability to judge efficiency
Maybe the sat nav also includes topographical info for climbs to be included in range for the gom and downward roads for regen ?
It's got some "intelligence" in there for sure but it's very unhelpful and poorly programmed
I totally agree. The other day, I charged at a fast charger. I got a range of, wait for it, 155km (km not miles). I reached 155km with 37% left. My average is 12.5kWh/100km since the day I bought it which means a range of 233km - *exactly* WLTP :) The GOM is useless in the MINI. I only look at it to laugh now. I go by 30km/battery segment. Never let me down. I wouldn't normally care, except for the GPS calculation - as you describe. I made a complaint to MINI Australia, which got.....nowhere :)
Looks like I'll have to convert to an iPhone to cease using satnav
Brave going out to Wroxham on a bank holiday. 100% agree with your rant on the GOM. Quite shocking that it's released into the open market like that.
You can imagine the outcry if an ICE car's petrol gauge dropped 1/3rd of a tank when you plugged in a sat nav destination!
Very good point
Yes same thing with my i3s. As soon as you set a nav destination the range drops massively. It happened just this weekend in fact. I was 110km from home with 63% which I knew would easily be enough and gom was showing around 150km, then I set the sat nav and insufficent range alert only 108km now. I'm used to it with the satnav so I paid no heed to it and slowly range overtook the distance remaining. I arrived home with it showing over 30km remaining. The satnav is supposed to take into account road type and terrain but whatever it does it calculates a really conservative range. The only consolation is if the sat nav says I have the range to get somewhere I can be pretty certain I do. Stop navigation and the more realistic gom will return almost immediately.
Thanks for another great video
Just saw your video. I am a New level 3 mini owner of 3 weeks and first time EV owner. Shame on BMW Mini for not providing meaningful GOM information and causing range anxiety.
but what would happen when the battery is degraded then how do u calculate remaining battery?
Unknown, depends how the software works. It might use the previously hidden battery capacity to mask degradation or it might just show lower range. Impossible to tell until it happens which is good news. No one has noticed it so its not a problem
does it warn you when the battery is running low?
Yes, I see those warnings in Part III of my road trip
Hi Nigel.
Seeing that I haven't driven an EV as yet, due to cost and availability.
What my take was on the rant and what I was thinking all along.
Steps to take for a new EV driver:
1. Look at the quoted range that you will get with a pinch of salt, coriander, pepper and a swig of mixed herbs.
2. Take the available battery capacity and take away between 10 and 20%. The reasoning behind this is, the higher the speed the less range you'll have to because of the drag co-efficiency and energy needed to maintain speed.
3. Do test on smaller ranges and see what the efficiency is, add about 10-20% on that, to give yourself a margin.
4. Yes, repeat the test at different speed, and make certain that the speeds you are testing, equated to the speed of the country, and test the minimum as well as the maximum speeds that you will get. This is to ensure that you do not tick off other road users, and also do not feel stressed when you completed the trip.
5. Ensure that there are charging infrastructure, or have a backup plan with friends that lives on the routes, just in case you need to charge while testing. For that top up that is might be needed.
6. As you become more familiar with the vehicle that you are driving, start stretching the distances, till you feel confident with the vehicle you are driving.
7. Test the economy of the vehicle not just on flat surfaces, lucky for me, I do not live in an area which is predominantly flat, hills, inclines, declines, mountains are all around me.
8. Once you are comfortable with what you can do, do a longer test. Or take the vehicle to the max range that you feel comfortable with the security of knowing where you will charge for the test.
9. Gradually add the weight to the amount of what you will be doing on these trips.
10. Just in case you don't have a mathematic inclination of how to work out the range, find yourself in the ranges that you know you will be capable of doing and relax. Trust that you did all the test in different weather situations for the country that you are from. Yes, in winter we some days still get up to 18 degrees celsius, with the region I live in, the minimum would be around 5 maybe 6 degrees celsius, with wind and rain. Okay, I also know that one of the trip I would take, might take me to around 0 degrees, and that depends on if there is snow on the mountain tops and not to far from where I will end up. I also know that the summer temperatures can go into the 30's and very infrequently go to the 40's around where I live. And yes, the longer trip I do think of in summer hovers in the mid 30's to mid 40's.
11. Figure out what the battery does in each temperature range and know that between 15 and say 30 degrees celsius, you will have the best range, as the battery doesn't need to heat itself up to much and then the cooling down of the batteries wouldn't need that much power either.
12. If your budget allows, always goes for the spec of vehicle with the seat heaters and coolers if the vehicle permits, if not and you are taking on longer ranges, have it plugged in and condition the interior space to a temperature that is comfortable for you. Not just because this will save the vehicle from exerting more energy to heating or cooling down of the cabin, but will have you comfortable from the onset of the trip, also lessoning the stresses on the body and the mind.
See, it isn't just you that have an analytical mind, some of us that haven't even had the experience of seeing EV's on the road that much. And I have seen an EV on the road. Yes, an EV, as the same car numerous times. A BMW i3, being utilized by some armed response unit.
I always do these test with a vehicle, just so I know. When the need arises and I do have to take the vehicle on a longer trip, I can make it. The test is easier with a fossil, as you can throw in a gas canister to test the petrol light range out and how much that last section of emergency driving will give you. An EV, where do you get an inverter strong enough to go with you, that will charge it fast enough without hampering the range test. And how big or strong would the inverter have to be, for you as a driver not to freak out.
I still think, the Mini Cooper SE would be a perfect car for me, and the range of the Volvo XC40 P8 Recharge, would easily do all the long range driving we do. Okay, it would work for that quarterly maybe annual ranges my sister would take for work functions. And on the plus side, she'll have 2 days, even if she only has a 3 point plug to charge, to refill the battery to get home again. As a daily, the Mini would work for me, and the BMW i3 would work for her. Or have I looked at this as incorrect. Because the BMW might also work for the ranges that she needs to travel, if 120Ah is bought with a range extender, but what is the point of the REx if you go for a BEV. As the point would be to lower the carbon footprint and more relaxed driving an EV gives you, isn't it. And all the reviews I have watched with people that are driving a REx, they don't use it, and it became an extra weight to carry around for the vehicle. Dead, unused weight. But it would give the added security of getting to your location with the fuel being the emergency to generate enough power just to finish. And a 3 point plug would recharge the vehicle much faster just because of the size of the battery.
Am I now overthinking this whole thing, or am I just being rationale for a mathematically inclined person. Option A does this, Option B do that to exceed Option A. If neither works, put in backup plans for both, with a few extra on each option. The road used, the speed used, the regen set to what you think might give you the most range of the lot. Equate the distance with just a mere 10kph decrease in speed, and see what happens to a max of 40kph lower.
Yes the speed limits in South Africa:
Town/City - 60kph (37.5mph)
The roads between areas - 70-80kph (44-50mph)
Freeway/National Roads 80-120kph (50-75mph)
What some people are driving at, because they feel they National speed limit is too little 140-160kph (87.5-100mph) up to even 200kph (125mph).
Yes, I have done over the 125mph, but that was work related and chasing suspects in a police vehicle, racing track, and the first time driving a sports vehicle (last one, many moons ago, when I was less than half my age now). With age comes comfort of rather enjoying the scenery and not going to the max the car can do, even if you still want to know what it can do in an emergency, always look for a safe space to test this.
Enjoy the remainder of the weekend and the week Nigel. Till I find a reason for a long comment, that might beat the longest I've sent. It's just the amount of information I have to give, and my thought tract has finished, otherwise, I feel like I gave an incomplete message.)
Love your longer messages.
Sadly unlike us the masses seem to be blind folded needing perfect petrol replacements. Change doesn't come easy to some without a bit of hand holding. TH-cam and EV groups are a great place to gain information but they're not for everyone.
The i3 120ah is perfectly capable. I3 rex less so but has the rex that you don't really want or want to use. My view is it encourages poor range management but it might be a bit of a collectable for the future. Rex isn't a common tech.
Software annoys me as Ive a programmers background. Software always works its just whether the design is any good or whether it's poorly coded with faults. In this case it's incomplete and poorly designed. All the elements are there for it to be much better.
@@EVPuzzle I'm not a coder. And my programming knowledge is limited.
Agree, the flaw in the programming. If it by any chance can read the topographical and speed limits as a guide, and adjust to speeds being used. It should be a better program. Being capable of knowing approximately what the battery levels would be on the trip. But few and far between, the vehicles works on an average consumption and not the topographical zone travelling in.
Let me use the Chevrolet Bolt as an example. The vehicle's GOM states a minimum range, an approximate range, and a possible longer range. Not saying it uses topographics as a guide. But if the vehicles could give a range for max speeda used, a middle and the lower of the allowed speed (used speeds) as range calculators. The drivers whom are not inclined to do the calculations on their own, would know. Max speed would give them that approximate range, and if they could live with a slower speed, it would or could possibly mean that they can reach their destination faster or at the same time as if they had to stop for an additional charge to maintain the top max speed needed.
Agreeing also, that the human race always looks for quick fixes, and wants the fixes to be in the levels that they are used to or better.
The fix isn't going to be fast. Just like smaller vehicles were looked at as getting everyone in a car. That didn't happen with the Beetle.
If I take the Fiat 500e, they have the smaller basically town car battery and the bigger longer range battery. The difference is, the original had small cars had enough space for occupants, if not all their luggage. Now we have small compact cars that does neither, and yes the safety has been increased for occupant safety.
I'll stick with the knowledge, that nothing is perfect, and even the fossil vehicles which people take as perfect, have flaws. Is it, optimism, or do we call it blind faith in what people think, because they don't know any better.
I suspect bmw think too highly of themselves and won't touch it.
For me as a developer I'd be ashamed the simple option of letting the driver choose... Use latest efficiency or recalculate based on x y z. Ignoring recent efficiency and the driver is crazy. The answer, don't use the BMW navigation system
I’ve been living with this, with the BMW i3s for 3 years now, down in Australia. For example the other day, just driving around the GOM said the range was 22km. Then we hit navigate home, which was 24km away. The GOM dropped to 9km & prompted insufficient range to make trip. But knowing the car had 11%, I knew I would make it, easy. No real elevation up or down on the trip. Ended up getting home with 3% & the GOM on 6km. Easily enough for the next day’s school run too.
I've noticed since if you navigate to a place via really slow roads, the range increases so presumably it sees a faster road and thinks it can't driver sensibly on faster roads
@@EVPuzzle I’ve found the faster the rout, the more KM you get back, they treat it more like an ICE’s consumption. Also it gets worse if you navigate to multiple destinations at once.
I think you are spot on. When I had the Zoe ZE40 I think the sat nav was set up for a 22 Kwh battery. It was always telling me I would fall short when I was going to arrive with 30 miles to spare (15% - that would be tight with a 22 kwh battery but not a 40 kwh battery). It was just an annoyance because I knew I was fine but someone new to EVs would have been sent into a bit of a panic and make an unnecessary stop adding a lot to an otherwise fairly short journey (my neighbour has a Mini but is scared of the idea of the EV because of all the stuff she's read about range anxiety, still plenty in the press to put people off). I have noticed that since going back to an ICE car again I always take the fastest route rather than a shorter route and I also drive at 70 on motorways instead of 60 (or less at times when range was tight). I liked the challenge of planning longer trips in my Zoe but I can see a lot of people wouldn't want that. I too think the Mini a great EV btw.
Robert, I think you have to learn to drive an EV by experimenting. We expect to just get in and drive but like anything new there's a learning curve. Learning efficiency and range and practising running low gives better confidence. I liken it to braking in snow. I always test brake to feel the skid safely before actually needing to in anger.
The more people that raise issues like this, the more the manufacturers might consider fixing this. If your at your Dealer and considering an E Mini let the dealer know about these issues, saying your having 2nd thoughts after watching this video and have they an idea when it will be fixed.
Hi Nigel, in your experience of EV's, which was your favourite? Which one would you buy again?
Ipace has best interior
Mini is most fun
Kona is best range, comfort and efficiency
ENiro lose 2nd to Kona. Inside is nicer but outside isn't
Ioniq is the most efficient
I'd buy a Kona or eniro at a shot or an Ipace if I had the ££.
Don't regret the Mini at all though so sub £30k it's the best EV
Thanks for the video. I understand that we can see only the battery % instead the gom. I never use the Navi in this car because it's inaccurate lot of animation but have old technology and still not have Android auto in 2021 this is also unacceptable...
Could the GOM have been more accurate than you thought? The range changed when you put in your destination, was it perhaps using real world topography to estimate range? On my Leaf I ignore the GOM and use the battery %, this rarely gets it wrong once down to 60% like you, I know I have a genuine 60 miles range until I need to charge.
No it's just bad programming, I'm going back on the same roads I just travelled getting 5.2mpkwh
Morning Nigel.
Morning Neil. Early start catches the sunrise
I agree 100%...! I’ve had my Mini 2 EV for 8 months now and covered almost 10k miles. I find the battery charge to be pretty accurate, but the estimated range is virtually unusable. I appreciate it always being on the cautious side, but every time you reset the nav it resumes “worst case” and completely ignores your real world usage history. Some days I can flick it from Mid to Green+ (on a full charge) and it estimates another 9 or 10 miles available range, another day I can do it and it doesn’t change at all...! So flaky.....!
(P.S. I absolutely love the car to bits! I’ve learned to ignore it’s GOM!)
I love it too. All the software is the worst side. Not a fan of the idrive system
Nigel, your example is extreme and I agree it is weird to drop 40% range just like that. Especially if your route takes you through country side, towns, etc. However recalculating the range based on route is actually quite good. I would really welcome it in Kona.
Here is why:
When I drive Kona locally I often get great efficiency - eg. 5mi/kwh. GOM often says eg.280mi with full battery. But when I'm going on looong trip (900miles) using only motorways I cannot reach first charger just 200mi away. I know that so either drive slower (60-65) or top up a little before Eurotunnel. But it would scare inexperienced driver thinking she/he can easily reach it only to find out late that this will not be possible. Especially in different country having local chargers, apps, etc.
I think we agree, we need more Information as just one number that's wrong isn't good enough
105 down to 69 is a 35% difference not 40%...... Why not use correct figures.
I assure you , you wouldn't welcome it if it was always out by lots .
Really?, 5% out estimate is something to complain about . You should try being perfect live in camera. It's not worth a retake . Surely you have something more important in life to worry about
Good to see a genuine rant and for a very good reason, mass adoption is coming and as you rightly say we shouldn’t be frightening people.
Cheers Nigel
I have not come across this before but i only trust the car for 115 miles in normal use and suggest a 10 mile margin is always allowed. A coffee and a quick charge on a 50kW rapid pod point at Lidls works for me so far!
Didn't wish you still had your Kona then?
No, I did the right thing. Since last summer I've not really been out of Norfolk until this trip and the Mini is perfect inside Norfolk and fun learning more about charging outside. Kona was just too good it was a bit boring. Even the auto steering is noticeable in the Kona, it's subtle but it eases the driving process. The Mini is all manual in that respect so more engaging. I only miss aspects of the Kona.
In reality I used to charge the Kona in a tight range 60 to 85 %. Now I'm charging 30 to 100%. Same energy, same charging times just less extra just in case
Dont trust GOM. SOC is what matters in my humble opinion. There is a lot of lag and especially If you change your pace drastically like joining the highway its not to be trusted. At all. But your right. This might well be stressful for unexperienced EV drivers. It is what it is. A calculated guess.
BMW software is very poor. My i3 (38kW) showed 160 miles for 100%. After driving one gentle mile the GOM showed 106, and remained at that for the next twenty minutes of driving (newbies would assume it had broken). It then went down mile for mile. Far too many errors and inconsistencies in their software.
Yet code is simple. How they make it so hard eludes me
The mini electric is basically using the same internals as the bmw i3. I've got a 2016 model i3 and it's just as bad. Today I was driving home put the ac on full it said I had 70 miles of range, I turned it down 50% then it said I had 65 miles of range, it's constantly changing its mind, so I just ignore it now.
In winter it says on a full charge I have 65 miles of range, put the heater on and you can halve that again. Now in summer it's giving me 90 miles of range.
I only ever do 15 miles a day so that's why I put up with it.
Shameful of a company like BMW to be that useless at software
After 6weeks with my Mini Cooper S Electric I can agree with you and everyone else the GOM is pessimistic and wavers around with its guesses way too much for it to be useful, and let’s face it with a smaller battery pack like the mini has the driver could do with more consistent range data. Does it matter to me? No, just like you I pay little attention to the GOM and I haven’t really used the sat nav yet. Is this a good EV? No, it is a fantastic EV. Not because of it’s range or it’s GOM but because it is just a joy to drive, especially on the rural Devon roads I drive. Small, nimble, smooth, with plenty of power so it can be really quick on the narrow, twisty roads where I live. In short I love mine. I do however wish there were more public chargers in the West Country, even those that do exist can be very unreliable. Sorry, that’s a bit off topic... 😆
Lincolnshire needs a few as well. There's a huge shell garage just installed on the A17 but no shell newmotion charger. Crazy
I know the GOM is only a rough estimation of range remaining. But that is clearly bonkers.
Peugeot does the same thing, updates the GOM every 5 mins or so, quite scary first time on a motorway, dropped really quick! That said Kia (and one assumes Hyundai) have it sorted, if my (old style) Kia Soul EV says it's got 20 miles left then you can rely on it for sure!
I was spoiled with the Kona being my first EV. Puts the others to shame media wise although updates weren't their forté
My 40kW Leaf did exactly the same thing, not to the extent of your Mini, but it is frustrating your Sat Nav telling you you don't have the range when you know you do.
My issue is its not the satnav saying it, its the main GOM. So much better of satnav range was seperate giving you worst case data too
We have a Mini EV and every 90 miles we fill it up.I don't pay any attention to the GOM.This is how we drive in a early Zoe and my motorbike.Oh and I use good old fashioned maps as well.
Lol maps. Those were the days seeing the back of a map in the window of a car coming towards you
The satnav probably goes off public average speeds and not YOUR crawling along everywhere average speeds
Lol, I keep up with traffic.... All queued behind me 🤣
It sounds like a software glitch that never has been fixed.
50% low is a bit off 🤔
Here's the short version.....
Man starts journey with only just enough battery to get home, car says no best put some charge in it.
Man tells world he wanted to risk it anyway.
I always thought something was a little odd with the GOM. Very early on Teslabjørn did his review and said the Mini had a good range, then other got their reviews out and said too short a range, Carwow ran a number of EVs on similar roads on the same day until empty and initially the Mini looked a bit poor but then carried on to a total of 154 miles showing 6 miles range for around 30 miles. I can only think that someone told the GOM programmer that because of warranty concerns we want owners scared to recharge way before needed. Some safety margin is good but too much is actually damaging the image of the car.
Yep and scaring EV adoption away.
Tesla is just as bad - it doesn’t update at all, just bluntly says ‘x% battery = y miles’ based on EPA. So not even WLTP. They do have a fairly decent energy tracker using previous 15/30/instant consumption on a completely different screen that covers the map up, but for some unknown reason they don’t put that figure on the main range display.
If the GOM showed what it was based on you could interpret it better. I'll eventually convert to an iPhone and stop using the navigation built in
@@EVPuzzle I just estimate 2 miles per percent and thats close enough for motorways so is a fairly safe assumption so far
The minimum range of new EVs seems to get bigger with every new model.
Seems like a 250 - 300 mile range is the sweet spot for buying a new electric vehicle.
Don't worry Thanos replaced hammer with syringe and will " Jab" loads of people and loads of them will depart prematurely :(