Why Paper Mario Succeeds Where SMRPG Fails
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 เม.ย. 2024
- Paper Mario is one of my favorite RPGs ever. It was my first RPG, and it inspired a love for RPGs and especially Mario RPGs. But I recently Played Super Mario RPG for the first time and hated it. Which made me wonder...why does Paper Mario still work in 2024, whereas the brand new remake of 7 Stars doesn't, despite the fact Paper Mario dumbs down a lot of the RPG elements, such as reducing damage numbers and removing non-Mario party members. But...are these simplifications the secret behind the game's success?
The First Video: • The Super Mario RPG Re... - เกม
Idk about that, only in one of those games you fight the power rangers I see a clear winner.
Ok but the other let's you fight the Ninja Turtles
@@shanegiorgio4713 Ok that's actually a good point
Ttyd lets you fight... Space rangers?
@@DaniDoyle And in the google translated version by Fatguy703, they are space Nazis.
I feel like SMRPG is the way it is because it was made by Square at the peak of their 90's JRPG empire. High numbers and linear equipment were the standard and they didn't want to deviate. Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi definitely more feel like Mario RPG's, mean while SMRPG is an RPG with Mario.
"There is no equivalent to flipping enemies using the hammer"......sure lets ignore the most consistent badge called Earthquake......
That's a badge, not an inherent property of the hammer (And its called Quake Hammer).
@@DaniDoyle The way you phrased it sounded like jump is the only way to flip enemies at all. And yeah in german it is straight up called Earthquake.
One of my favourite parts of the paper mario series is actually tattle, It works both as one of the game's sources of humour but also gives you the choice to adquire knowledge
Most encounters can probably be beaten without tattling but exact hp , offense and defense values go a long way in a low numbers game, especially as Fp conservation comes in as a factor
Yoooooo finally someone that isn’t choking on SMRPG’s “star road”. It’s not a bad game but it is so lackluster, basic and linear compared to PM and M&L imo.
I get it, it started everything but a lot of its fans act like it’s the second coming of Christ and somehow so much better than it’s successors.
Like for example Geno is neat but basically doesn’t exist as a character between his introduction and the end.
SMRPG was designed to be an introduction to the RPG genre. ⁹ no wonder how so simple it is. Thats one of the more enjoyable and loved parts of the games.
I do understand that playing this game as an experienced RPG player would be disappointing.
I do think its a bit unfair to compare SMRPG and Paper Mario since SMRPG was just a proof in concept of the idea of a Mario RPG.
This game was the stepping stones for both of the most beloved Mario RPGs, and i think the game desrves that credit
i def agree that paper mario and ttyd are a lot better than smrpg, even if it holds a special place in my heart as my first rpg, but it hink part of what makes the paper games so much better is the customization and difficulty, smrpg is INCREDIBLY easy and a lot of the time can be pretty thoughtless for the fights, though i do think the exploring and platforming/level designs are better in smrpg cause there is plenty of that in there, and while the same could be said for paper mario and ttyd being easy, you still gotta go out of your way to figure out the different strategies and and customications to make it that easy while smrpg is just...better wquipment goes brrr, like smrp is already so easy, idk why they felt the need to make the remake even easier with some of the mechanics [and then even add in an easy mode ontop of that]
As someone who blasted through the SMRPG remake and had a good time the whole time, and then played Paper Mario on NSO and gradually fell off; This is a fascinating perspective to hear.
I do think it’s maybe a bit unfair to criticize a singular game from decades ago for having less of an active community than an active franchise of six main installments.
Also, fun fact: Originally Paper Mario was announced as Super Mario RPG 2!
The difference in community wasn't a criticism of SMRPG, it was a observation (and used as a jumping off point for exploring why one game had more of an impact than the others). I do think casting the paper mario series as 6 games is a bit disingenuous though, as only two of those games are RPGs, with the others beia platformer and 3 puzzle games, all four of which are widely disliked within the "paper Mario community" (for example the largest paper Mario discord only has channels for 64, ttyd, and Big Fables, which isn't even a paper mario game).
If your are curious about my issues on SMRPG I do go more in depth on them in my SPRPG video th-cam.com/video/GHJU4xGs_1s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qXYxKg9RGcLO3aBn
@@DaniDoyleSticker Star and after, sure, but I think the consensus on Super Paper Mario is pretty good, mostly thanks to its great story, and having gameplay that, while different, is still good, and not something actively disliked like the sticker, card, and ring systems.
@@DaniDoyle I return, having learned Context
Yeah I can get not liking SMRPG in 2024, especially if high-numbers and/or old-school RPGs aren’t your thing. Important as it is for laying the foundation, later Mario RPGs executed most of its cool ideas better.
Back on the topic of THIS video, the bit about Paper Mario being low-numbers got me thinking about why I often prefer high-numbers games like Final Fantasy and Persona (with a few specific exceptions like Bug Fables) and why I get dizzy when folks talk about ORKO benchmarks in FE, and honestly I think it’s just because I like Numbers Go Up but also hate getting flashbacks to math class. It sounds a bit contradictory, but the fact that in games like FF the numbers are too big/obfuscated to easily measure your precise numerical effectiveness means that there’s almost no incentive to measure your precise numerical effectiveness, so you can put that attention elsewhere.
Was eagerly awaiting TTYD since you mentioned it in your intro only to be teased. Looking forward to part 2!
I super agree. The first Paper Mario Trilogy was consistently fantastic (SPM isn't really an RPG, just an Action Adventure game with a heavy emphasis on story) as far as RPGs go. SMRPG however, being designed as a Final Fantasy clone, just doesn't hold up, especially in the identity department.
Is saying I recently thought of some ideas to make SMRPG closer to Paper Mario count as self-promotion?
Personally i like both games for different reasons (SMRPG for the aesthetics and incredible soundtrack, Paper Mario for the more generally engaging combay system). It's always an interesting perspective to hear someone who dislikes one but not the other! :)
I know that TTYD is considered the better game out of the two original Paper Mario games, but I do have a soft spot for 64.
Speaking of 64, have you heard of Paper Mario TTYD64?
I've heard of it but i haven't played it... Yet ..
Paper Mario is literally my favorite game, I still replay almost yearly.
SMRPG is the best word I have heard in my life
This is why I hate paper mario fans... they act like victims but theyve been attacking the SMRPG/alphadream fans for years...
Someone disliking a game you like is not an attack buddy. Please touch grass.
When you train an AI on negativity, it turns out negative. Now look at the games after Super...
Also nobody from the PM community is attacking M&L. We are like cousins.
Good video and interested to hear thoughts on TTYD which i think is a downgrade on regards to 64 as well. It fixes some issues sure but it also introduced other issues that weren't problems in 64 which leads me to preffering 64 over TTYD and i prefer the more simplistic nature 64 had.
SMRPG has always been interesting to me since besides Sticker Star and Color Splash, its the last Mario RPG for me to play, and thus it was more of a novelty than anything (especially since it was the Wii U virtual console version, not the new remake). A solid game at the end of the day, but far surpassed by many of it's successors in the Paper Mario and M&L series
Sticker Star and Colour Splash aren't RPGs, they're a bundle of good ideas wrapped together by terrible execution making a really bad Deckbuilder.
Ooohhhh hot takes! I like it!(I've played TTYD and Paper Mario before Super RPG as well, I also enjoy Paper Mario just a little better)
Your tongue must be dry after spitting so many facts.
My connection point isn't Paper Mario OR SMRPG. It's the Mario & Luigi rpgs. Simple but engaging active input combat, a lot of overworld actions that use your combat actions for exploration, humor that largely holds up, and fairly short but with a good amount of optional content.
I wonder how much SMRPG benefits from the FF7 effect, where if it's the first RPG you REALLY get into, you will tend to forgive or overlook its flaws and deeply engage with the few actually unique ideas they have and bemoan that they don't seem to appear in modern games (while blindly overlooking the games they do appear in).
Seriously there's no reason why getting SMRPG diehards to try M&L or Paper Mario should be like pulling teeth but it is.
are you saying that SMRPG is a Jaigen, while Paper Mario has solid bases and growths?
I have had... quite the similar experience to your story. I've played SMRPG on Virtual Console back around... 2020, and I enjoyed it enough to buy the remake.
And, it was a *fine* remake. Faithful, and had interesting postgame content. By all means, it was great!
And yet, if you told me to choose between SMRPG and Paper Mario -- or SMRPG vs M&L, for that matter -- I would always choose the latter.
SMRPG feels like a "baby's first" introduction to the RPG genre. It's story is simplistic, and the main gimmick it ran (being Timed Hits in the game) is what differed it from other turn-based RPGs. I think this emphasis on "engaging gameplay" is what drew in a lot of young players in 1996 -- Action Commands being the "revolutionary flavor" that distinguishes Mario RPGs from the rest of the crowd.
Paper Mario does this, but better. Its badge and Star Power system increases the complexity of the battle system, while not strictly making the difficulty a lot harder so that inexperienced players can still have a fun time getting through the game. TTYD further refined the battle system as well as have a (imo) better story. In a vacuum, legacy aside, I would say Paper Mario more of what SMRPG does, and in a better way. SMRPG is very easy, and a lack of difficulty can reduce the fun factor. As a child, TTYD's final boss beat my rear end once, which only made victory taste better.
SMRPG doesn't have too much of what I call "strategy" -- a new shop will have better gear, and there is subsequently no "choice" to be made; buy your new equipment, and sell your old. Paper Mario's badges rely on synergy; a Chapter 1 badge can still have relevancy in Chapter 7 if you can find a good setup for it. In essence, what's increasing isn't just your numbers, but also the number of strategies/"badge decks" available at your disposal. And *this* is what makes Paper Mario truly unique - its system allows for so many fun variations and "challenge runs" where SMRPG (and even M&L) does not have as much freedom in this regard.
The only "downside"/gripe I have about the original Paper Mario 64 was the lack of partner HP, but the pros outweigh the cons even still.
I'm still a fan of SMRPG, but mostly for the characters and lore it set up. The battle system itself is rather forgettable and dated.
Anyways, I've talked a lot. Big Mario RPG fan here, if it wasn't obvious.
Oh, and another thing I want to mention about Paper Mario - the small numbers. Makes sense given Intelligent Systems was also behind this, but the low damage numbers (and lack of variance) makes it Very Easy for you to run arithmetic in your head (kinda like Fire Emblem, no way). Each unit of HP is significant, and everyone understands what Attack minus Defense yields. It's literally the simplest you can get, and thus makes it easier (and actually possible) to plan strategies around the amount of damage you give and take!
Edit: I have now watched the video. 😅
I love ALL Dani Doyle videos!!!! ❤
geno fans in shambles
revenge of the woke pronounce.......
Just wait till i have my woke revenge
I have played Paper Mario 64 back in 2021 on the NSO and it was the most generic good game ever, like I enjoyed it, but it wasn't that much special
With SMRPG, I fell in love with it in 1 hour, couple reasons:
The characters are much more enjoyeble, Mallow himself beats any partner in 64. cause outside of Bow, all of the partners are kinda 1 note and feel more like aditional tools rather than characters if you know what I mean,
Plus SMRPG is way weirder with it including more new characters and villians rather than making new variants of classic enemies, from a Man child Booster to a witch that is Valentina and have original villians of that are the Smithy gang, characters in this game are not perfect ( why does BOOMER exist? ) but they really fun regardless
Plus this game ( including remake ) has a lot of charm and funny moments, something that was not presented in 64
And the gameplay was a lot more addicting especialy with the chain gauge to perfecly attack and block, and it's nice that there are special/magic moves which make this game far less repetitive ( WHO'S idea was that Paper Mario can only jump or use hammer )
My opinion on Paper Mario 64 only went down hill after playing The new one, since my first words after replaying 64 one to be prepared for TTYD remake were "seriously? We sacrifised SMRPG2 for for the most generic 7/10 ever?
I hope that thanks to this remake selling real good, it will make it so that SMRPG will finaly be able to call it a "franchise" and not JUST an "spiritial predesasor to Paper Mario"
I think said everything I wanted to say
The woke pronouns are number 1 🤯🤯🤯
It was because of me
You've gotta love how everyone used to praise SMRPG and is now finally admitting it has many flaws. (I'm not disrespecting your opinion. Everyone has the right to criticize....except the grump known as LSmark.)
Fe fans not being Negative challenge: impossible
This is literally a video about why I think an old game continues to hold up, but go off I guess
@@DaniDoyle yeah I was just trying to be funny. Great vid
@@Pogma776 You weren't funny, you were just repeating what children like to say.
Schrodinger's douchebag moment
@@Raidraptor_-_Ultimate_Falcon that's sorta the point
SMRPG > PM
You're welcome to feel that way. I'm curious what it is you like about SMRPG more than Paper Mario, mind elaborating?
This is petision for SMRPG hard mode
SMRPG aged like Milk? Sounds like something a person who hates the game would say. I still love both series and if I get attacked in comments for liking SMRPG too then it's no surprise. I've been attacked for.liking games the community hates like Zelda Skyward Sword
People saying they dislike a game you like is not attacking you. I go into detail about my issues with SMRPG and why I feel it has aged exceptionally poorly here: th-cam.com/video/GHJU4xGs_1s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oVouBRA-_-uJjrI_
Numbers go up