Filmed and editing this afternoon! This one was waiting to come out of the box for a while, so thought I'd bring you guys along with me to share the very first look!
please edit your video. You are not right. The coffee maker was made by a factory called "Guangdong Gemilai Intelligent Technology" and grinder is from "Ningbo Frigga Electric Appliance". Sellers only brand this machines
This is not “manufactured by Turin”, this is a mass production unit from China, rebranded under way more brands than you already mentioned. You can buy two for $258 a piece, this is why they are rebranded so much: it’s a cheap machine, with a large margin for resale.
But what difference does it make? You're now talking about the label on the front. Would it make you feel better if they put a label that said La Marzocca, or Profitec etc? At the end of the day these espresso machines are very simple, a boiler, a pump, cheap Chinese made PID. It's all the same really
Yeah only time will tell. Generally speaking espresso gear is simple and grossly overpriced. If this thing is reliable, Gaggia, Rancilio and others are in trouble
@@thefrail125 from what i learned (i researched it and placed an order last week), this particular model has had a few revisions (hence the L on the end of the CRM3007L) and its been around for roughly 12 years mainly in the Asian market. Its durability has been proven. Now that its coming to the US market, its only a matter of time for people to hop on board and start hacking it and modding it.
Be advised, these machines are not Italian-manufactured as the name "Turin" would have you believe. They're made in China by the Ningbo Frigga Electric Appliance Co--like most prosumer/consumer brands (Breville etc..)--nothing wrong with that but it explains the large price discrepancy for similar features.
While it doesn't say it's made in Italy, Italy has terrible standards for being to claim something is made there anyway. That said, as someone that worked in the bike industry for over 15yrs, a lot of Italian branded goods had better QC when they moved manufacturing to China.
@@joekolb3937 The name "Turin" is misleading and most folks are hearing about this and many other machines from the scads of TH-cam videos. Country of origin is not obvious on their website and "Contact Us" page gives no clues. Companies should not obfuscate their origin but I doubt anybody is worse off for knowing that.
actually, they're made by Guangdong Gemilai Intelligent Technology Co.,Ltd., Shunde District, Foshan City - and released under the subsidiary Corrima along with dozens of other machines.
This machine reminds me a lot of my very first espresso machine, the Solis Gran Barista. At the time it was the perfect machine for me. The Turin Legato looks so similar besides the front with the gauge etc. But - I bought the Solis new for less then 300 Euros at the time.
Nice preview! For the full review, please check if the OPV is adjustable and if so, how easy it is to adjust. I'm also curious if that pre-infusion time is for the initial pump action or for a pause that follows it.
Well, Turin Legato (Apex, etc.) is quite impressive. I won't tell the "pros" here but the 2 main "cons" I detected: 1/ pre-infusion is at full pressure destroying the puck, (solution would be to implement some new knob dimming pi pressure and lauch the extraction in a smooth way) 2/ no OPV (but this should be not difficult to implement for next version). Former version of the Legato had a HUGE flaw wrt pre-infusion. And they fixed it (but see point 2 above) because famous people complaining recently on YT !! This model is quite old and spread in Asia etc. There are factories for grinders and different factories for espresso machines. I will wait, not bying until they fix the 2 main "cons".
Thinking that any information on how well this machine brews could be determined from one shot, and not even asking what grinder was used is very TH-cam comment section.
It has a very similar look to the Lelit Victoria, I expect nowhere near as good or well built as that bug for the price you can't expect that. Could be a game changer in the budget prosumer space, it is based on an Hungarian machine as other have said the AVX DB1
it's based on Corima, hence the crm3007 designation. It's also called the Gemilai crm 3007L. You can rebadge / rebrand it of you purchase certain number of units. I believe the basic machine of the kafmashino is also the crm 3007L.
Coffee Nerd Aaron just posted a review on this machine. His sample came with that scoop/tamper along with a Breville-esque one as well. I wonder if that tamper got left out in re-packing. Although it had the Breville’s silhouette, the handle was square and was a bit loose in the portafilter.
The biggest reason not to buy one would appear to be that its first gen, and the improvements yheyve made on their grinders over the last few years makes it look like this is going to get similarly improved on too😁 Love the video, love the channel.
This is not 1st gen, the 1st gen did not have OPV and manometer below the portafilter. I got the earlyer version, but put these add-ons myself. This is an awesome machine for the price.
This is a Corrima and I'm sure they ship more espresso machines than Gaggia. These machines are under $200 each direct from the manufacturer in China and have been around for years. If you buy 600 units or so you can have them rebrand them for you as anything you like. If you want to see some cool machines, you should look at any of the other 100-200 models the same company makes. I'm sure Gaggia's margin is similar and if it costs them over $110 to make I'd be very surprised. I don't think the name brands have anything to worry about in North America and Europe because this machine isn't going to make it into the same sales channels and will remain a product only known by enthusiasts and small TH-cam audiences. As far as Asia goes, these machines and many others are already a big success.
Gaggia is really getting a lot of competition in what used to be an almost exclusive price point. It doesn't help that their latest Classics don't even do things much of the community wants. It feels like their Evo Pros should be THIS MACHINE. I'm curious to see how this stacks up to something like the Profitec Go.
The only problem for now is that the preorder uints are not arriving on time. They keep postponing the estimated date of arrival. It said "Container has left the manufacturer and is on the way" when I first saw it on the website in November. two months of shipment lol
No, this is not meant for commercial settings. You'll need to look at something rated for commercial use (for durability, and to pass a health inspection). Consider La Spaciale, La Marzocco, Ascaso, etc
i wanted black so back because it looks sick, i saw it on aliexpress but for 800 bucks lol. Ill stick with the stainless and possibly make it black myself
I am curious on how you managed to get 8 bars out of the box. On other reviewers of this product, the biggest gripe is usually the 15 bars OOB settings. I believe there is a little screw under the hooded part that houses the portafilter. I am not sure if that adjusts the bars or what. Also notable is the price in Canada is around 700 CA ,when compared to Gaggia its the same pricepoint. The SS boiler is a plus for me, given the coated aluminium boiler issues on Gaggia. Would be nice to see what's under the hood and the mods available, like the OPV mod needed (It does not come with OPV OOB) .
I’ve seen a few videos on this, and none were anywhere near this positive. Fit and finish were described as “ok” by most and the PID readout vs the actual temp where far apart until the machine had been on for over 15 minutes. Pre-infusion does nothing and might actually create more channeling. Hopefully your “in depth” review will be more than just an infomercial for Espresso Outlet. (BTW, I know this was a first impression, but you didn’t even taste the shot)
As far as Espresso Outlet goes, read the fine print. My experience for warranty claim is "the customer is not worth my time". i would like to see a video of the internals. My Rancilio Silvia V2, ran like a champ for almost 12 years before i sold it. The internals on the Silvia V2 (cant speak of the newer ones) make sense for the price. All brass or copper fittings as well as pipes. The frame was a bit of a let down as it was prone to corrosion if paint chipped. For 4-5 hundred dollars more, you got performance and reliability albeit, a bit of a learning curve with temp surfing.
This is the machine that Kafmasino has converted to create the KAFMASINO ONE. Now that functionality is pretty impressive, but with a higher price tag!
Turin (for Espresso Outlet) buys them for around $150, rebrands them, and sells them here for the “bargain” price of $500. Nice little profit margin and since they don’t actually make them, zero R&D or manufacturing costs. That being said, if they were $350 I’d probably jump on one, but not for $500.
Do you have any info about adjust a high end espresso machines extraction process and PID temperature, when one uses filtered Alkaline PH level watter ? Thanks
Interesting! Do you have a link? I was more wondering in terms of feature parity how the stock Turin Legato out of the box compares with the gagguino modded GCP. Thanks for the reply :)
@AlanButterworth definitely wouldn’t have anywhere near the control or capabilities of a Gaggiuno out of the box. Tough to beat a modded Gaggia if you’re willing to do it!
This is incredibly exciting for the beginner/lower end espresso machine market I feel like PID and the ability to preinfuse should be the standard when it comes to machines these days in the $500-$750 USD price. Getting that early bird deal on espresso outlet putting the machine at $400 USD is an insane deal. Pretty much no point in buying the GCP when this thing exists. Only thing to wait for is the longevity and overall QC.
Exactly those are not rocket science features, companies r milking consumers, like the sage infuser, has the ability but they made it 15 bar with smaller pf, like why???
it is sold in china under the name of Gemilai CRM3007L, it also comes in Black color! it's tempting, i was saving for a Profitec Go and now i am considering this for the price especially its only third the cost of it! thanks for the video
@@LifestyleLab_ Sure, I can imagine that the Profitec Go is way better in this regard, but considering the 3 times cost, it is not 3 times better than the Turin.
Just a label slapped on a China Manufacturer’s factory model. Guangdong Gemilai Intelligent Co., Ltd. is the manufacturer. Alibaba has them for under $200/ea if you buy in quantity.
I'm not sure why people find this concept so foreign. Espresso Outlet is an importer, and they do so under the name Turin. People do not have the capacity to buy machines in bulk, or provide after market support, this is what a state side retailer does. For those services, they mark up the price and make a profit... this is very common practice in all sorts of industries
TURIN is china's middleman to sell to the US market. After they come out with something, they get all the feedback from consumers and keep coming out with numerous versions month after month. Its hard to believe that the engineers dont know what they are doing. It feels like they PURPOSELY make an inferior product that seems great on paper, knowing buyers will keep buying upgrades and accessories. The DF grinder model made the company so much money. Youre telling me that the creators didnt know how to fix the declumper or the popcorning in version 1. I call b.s. from the get go
This actually matches my requested machine specs exactly (other than the SS finish). Unfortunately I gave up waiting during Black Friday and splurged for an ECM. But really should do very well for them
It would be nice to see some one check the temptures to see if machine is actually changing temps and the pre-infusion works. Dose look like a good starter machine an I always like to see competition.
Coffee Dad did a fuller review. He was impressed by the feature set, but not the build quality. He found the pre infusion worthless and the temperature was way off until the machine had been on for over 15 minutes. He actually tasted the coffee, and thought it was ok. The internals were solid but there was a lot of plastic. Pressure was 15 bar and was not adjustable. If this was $350 it really would be a bargain, but at $500 the Gaggia is a much safer bet IMHO.
I wouldn’t jump on this until you can find a video review that shows what’s under the hood. Often time you will find lots of plastic. Breville is guilty of this. Price and features often means compromise some where. Also I wouldn’t trust without an external temperature test and external pressure test.
@@joekolb3937 when i was deciding on the Breville Dual Boiler, i found a video showing the internal and saw quite a bit of plastic, the OPV valve was completely plastic. Granted its got lots of features at an attractive price so make sense. Ultimately i decided on Lelit Elizabeth. I can tell you for Rancilio Silvia and Giggia Classic (dont know about the newer ones) have very solid build on the internal. Mostly metal. All the fitting and connectors were metal.
He keeps saying lookout Gaggia and Ranchilo, but with all the features jammed into this thing I suspect their target is really Breville. I found a video that looked under the hood. It was better than expected, but still had a LOT of plastic. This thing is not built to last.
I have ver.1 and the "pre-infusion" can be helped by using a metal disc screen which I normally run anyway. The machine build is a little "light", but it makes better espresso than our $1200 Breville Touch Impress! 😂 I'm not that concerned that it's not built like a tank, as long as the machine lasts 3-5yrs!
This is so dope. I have a 2004 GC and I just swapped out the boiler for one similar to the evo… makes me wish I saved my $60 and upgraded to this instead 😆
I am excited about the idea of a "white box" or generic espresso machine if they can deliver quality at a cheaper price a la the DF64. The true test will be white box versions of a Lelit Bianca or La Marzocco Linea mini at an affordable price.
Absolutely nothing to be learned from a single shot on a single grinder. This was just a first impressions live unboxing. Giving an opinion right off the bat would have provided no value
@sixelanavi03 espresso machines are generally function focused in the value they bring. Compared to the grinder, they have very little impact on the quality of the drink. Sort of like a camera body vs the lens in front of it :)
@@LifestyleLab_Except you did give a LOT of opinions on things like build quality and features (compared to other brands) without really testing any of them or opening it up for a view of the internals. I know that’s probably coming in a future video, but this was heavily positive without much more than a cursory view.
Why would you fill it with stale coffee and not even taste test a shot? Also a view inside the unit would be appreciated. Not a bad review, just missing data
Comparing this to the Rancilio Silvia based on a list of features and one poorly pulled shot, is a stretch. Seemed more like a commercial for Espresso Outlet.
It’s an initial impressions video… you see me literally take it out of the box… I don’t think you can disagree that the feature list of this unit walks all over the Gaggia and Rancilio. Sorry to offend you
It’s really disingenuous to say that this is “made by Turin”. Turin is the House Brand of Espresso Outlet. They put their name on anything that fits their catalogue. They can be from one or a dozen factories. There’s nothing wrong with this, but it’s an important piece of info to get right.
We private label them Turin, but machine wouldn't exist in current configuration without us. So made by Turin? Depends on your definition but we had several important things changed and wouldn't be in usa market without us
TURIN is china's middleman to sell to the US market. After they come out with something, they get all the feedback from consumers and keep coming out with numerous versions month after month. Its hard to believe that the engineers dont know what they are doing. It feels like they PURPOSELY make an inferior product that seems great on paper, knowing buyers will keep buying upgrades and accessories. The DF grinder model made the company so much money. Youre telling me that the creators didnt know how to fix the declumper or the popcorning in version 1. I call b.s. from the get go
Chinese build? Lot of options I agree but longevity is the question. I've been burned before even if they cover it. Time down inconvenience. I'll stick with Italian build quality for now. It will be interesting to see if this unit is as good as we hope though.
Espresso Outlet has Turin, Clive have Lucca, and Seattle Coffee Gear have Diletta. I’m sure they’re decent units, but it’s obvious they are making a huge markup on these “house brands”. (Makes me wonder why Whole Latte Love never went this route)
More like 5 years. Turin (for Espresso Outlet) buys them for around $150, rebrands them, and sells them here for the “bargain” price of $500. Nice little profit margin and since they don’t actually make them, zero R&D or manufacturing costs. If they were $350 I’d probably jump on one, but not for $500.
@@LifestyleLab_ i don't know what he was referring to, but in general if you're switching between different kinds of beans all programmable pre-infusion options are useless. They're either too short (lower part of the puck remains dry) or too long (too much coffee ends up in the cup before the pause). Manual pre-infusion, based on looking for puck saturation, is a lot more useful and accurate. I know this because my machine (a Lelit Bianca) supports both methods.
@@LifestyleLab_it’s a pre-infusion mimic, as it will hit the puck at full pump pressure for a second and the remaining time is just wait time. It will never do any saturation.
It's a about time to bring competition to the budget market, there is nothing complex about a consumer espresso machine, company like gaggia is milking consumers by adding a real featute every 5 yrs lol like how hard is it to make it 9bar and add a pid???
This machine has been on the market in the EU for a while (more than a year I think), under the name AVX DB1. They all come from the same factory, with different brand names stamped on it. A nice machine for the price point for sure.
Slow, underpowered, the capillaries are prone to blockages, thermoblocks are not serviceable, and expensive to replace. Also, unless you're a techno fan, the noise is annoying.
This is a great it is nice df or turin comes in this market of mid range coffee machines, and have intersting features for the price. people don"t really realize that more competition brings more innovation thus more more features and a A good price-performance ratio. This is how all the technologies are more affordable than say twenty years ago. Anyways great first impression mate.
No doubt this machine is a pretty well equipped for the price, but let’s be real, the price companies charge for these features is way over priced. With that said, I feel like this is a great machine for someone who’s not sure if this will to be a real/long term hobby. This thing may last a few years, at which, time said person could upgrade.
This comment section is coffee snob gatekeeping at its finest. “This can’t be as good as my $1000 machine. It’s not even Italian” blah blah blah. Gaggia and rancilio are falling behind mainly because they don’t want to eat into their profit margin. The new machines should have newer features that the community is asking for, yet they don’t add simple things like PIDs. Way to go @espressooutlet
@@LifestyleLab_lol dude why do you get offended so easily? The idea behind my comment was about the design. They pretty much copied how the Profitec Go looks… buttons placement, steam knob, analogue gauge…
@@BananaChipzzzbecause a few individuals commented on this machine being Made in ... ? Consumers have the right to buy as they please. Even if their biggest concern is which country it was made in. It was mentioned in the comments that some feel this machine (made in ....) is in no means up to its italian gaggia counterpart
Beautiful machine and thank you for an actual reaction video. I'm hesitant in purchasing this machine on the fact that it's version 1 and with Turin's track record they tend to release V2 of their products rather quickly. I do however admire that price point! Now we're talking! I love the competitiveness that this company aims for. 👏👏👏
This model has been sold for quite a few years already in other country. While it is definitly cheaper built it's still packed with features. Probably won't last you 20 years but let's be honest no machine last that long without any repairs anyway.
Filmed and editing this afternoon! This one was waiting to come out of the box for a while, so thought I'd bring you guys along with me to share the very first look!
I subscribed
which country made in? China?
please edit your video. You are not right. The coffee maker was made by a factory called "Guangdong Gemilai Intelligent Technology" and grinder is from "Ningbo Frigga Electric Appliance". Sellers only brand this machines
Where in my video was I incorrect?
Everyone knows Turin is a Chinese rebranding by US importers...
This is not “manufactured by Turin”, this is a mass production unit from China, rebranded under way more brands than you already mentioned. You can buy two for $258 a piece, this is why they are rebranded so much: it’s a cheap machine, with a large margin for resale.
But what difference does it make? You're now talking about the label on the front. Would it make you feel better if they put a label that said La Marzocca, or Profitec etc?
At the end of the day these espresso machines are very simple, a boiler, a pump, cheap Chinese made PID. It's all the same really
Yeah only time will tell. Generally speaking espresso gear is simple and grossly overpriced. If this thing is reliable, Gaggia, Rancilio and others are in trouble
its made by corrima/gemilai. model number crm3007L
@@thefrail125 from what i learned (i researched it and placed an order last week), this particular model has had a few revisions (hence the L on the end of the CRM3007L) and its been around for roughly 12 years mainly in the Asian market. Its durability has been proven. Now that its coming to the US market, its only a matter of time for people to hop on board and start hacking it and modding it.
I’ve been looking at grinders lately - this immediately turned me off from Turin completely. Thanks for the heads up!
I think I commented similar on another of your awesome videos. What cups are you using here?
Both from Kruve :)
Be advised, these machines are not Italian-manufactured as the name "Turin" would have you believe. They're made in China by the Ningbo Frigga Electric Appliance Co--like most prosumer/consumer brands (Breville etc..)--nothing wrong with that but it explains the large price discrepancy for similar features.
its made by corrima/gemilai in china. model number CRM3007L
While it doesn't say it's made in Italy, Italy has terrible standards for being to claim something is made there anyway. That said, as someone that worked in the bike industry for over 15yrs, a lot of Italian branded goods had better QC when they moved manufacturing to China.
Website is clear about where they are made. Never says anywhere made in italy
@@joekolb3937 The name "Turin" is misleading and most folks are hearing about this and many other machines from the scads of TH-cam videos. Country of origin is not obvious on their website and "Contact Us" page gives no clues. Companies should not obfuscate their origin but I doubt anybody is worse off for knowing that.
actually, they're made by Guangdong Gemilai Intelligent Technology Co.,Ltd., Shunde District, Foshan City - and released under the subsidiary Corrima along with dozens of other machines.
This machine reminds me a lot of my very first espresso machine, the Solis Gran Barista.
At the time it was the perfect machine for me. The Turin Legato looks so similar besides the front with the gauge etc.
But - I bought the Solis new for less then 300 Euros at the time.
Nice preview! For the full review, please check if the OPV is adjustable and if so, how easy it is to adjust. I'm also curious if that pre-infusion time is for the initial pump action or for a pause that follows it.
Fun first look, greatly appreciate the unboxing, looking forward to your full review
6 months later and still no “full” review.
Sorry Tom, I do have a day job.
Well, Turin Legato (Apex, etc.) is quite impressive. I won't tell the "pros" here but the 2 main "cons" I detected:
1/ pre-infusion is at full pressure destroying the puck, (solution would be to implement some new knob dimming pi pressure and lauch the extraction in a smooth way)
2/ no OPV (but this should be not difficult to implement for next version).
Former version of the Legato had a HUGE flaw wrt pre-infusion. And they fixed it (but see point 2 above) because famous people complaining recently on YT !!
This model is quite old and spread in Asia etc. There are factories for grinders and different factories for espresso machines.
I will wait, not bying until they fix the 2 main "cons".
You said you're blown away before actually tasting the latte, testing how accurate the PID is, and knowing how reliable it is over time.
It’s a first impressions video… you watched me unbox it
You can be blown away from first impressions. How are you going to test reliability over time for a brand new machine?
@@pablolankenau i mean, google it, its been around in the asian market for 12 years and its well regarded over there as a durable machine
@@pablolankenauThis felt less like a “first impression” video than an infomercial for Espresso Outlet.
Is that a Kafmasino base?
Appear so!
Lots of brands clearly pulling from similar suppliers
Did everything but taste the coffee it makes which is hilariously in tune with coffee TH-cam
Thinking that any information on how well this machine brews could be determined from one shot, and not even asking what grinder was used is very TH-cam comment section.
It has a very similar look to the Lelit Victoria, I expect nowhere near as good or well built as that bug for the price you can't expect that. Could be a game changer in the budget prosumer space, it is based on an Hungarian machine as other have said the AVX DB1
Thought it was a Lelit as well
it's based on Corima, hence the crm3007 designation. It's also called the Gemilai crm 3007L. You can rebadge / rebrand it of you purchase certain number of units. I believe the basic machine of the kafmashino is also the crm 3007L.
thanks for the video. Did you measure the extraction pressure?
Coffee Nerd Aaron just posted a review on this machine. His sample came with that scoop/tamper along with a Breville-esque one as well. I wonder if that tamper got left out in re-packing. Although it had the Breville’s silhouette, the handle was square and was a bit loose in the portafilter.
Those new porcelain kruve cups are so nice!
Right?!
So did they fix the pressure issues? I saw it ran at high pressures and yours ran at 9 bar which is good.
The biggest reason not to buy one would appear to be that its first gen, and the improvements yheyve made on their grinders over the last few years makes it look like this is going to get similarly improved on too😁
Love the video, love the channel.
This is not 1st gen, the 1st gen did not have OPV and manometer below the portafilter. I got the earlyer version, but put these add-ons myself. This is an awesome machine for the price.
@@Filtro8903 what was the price on the earlier version, and lacking these features, what's the advantage over the GCP?
Corrima makes them and have been around 10 years or more. Forget exactly
This is a Corrima and I'm sure they ship more espresso machines than Gaggia. These machines are under $200 each direct from the manufacturer in China and have been around for years. If you buy 600 units or so you can have them rebrand them for you as anything you like.
If you want to see some cool machines, you should look at any of the other 100-200 models the same company makes.
I'm sure Gaggia's margin is similar and if it costs them over $110 to make I'd be very surprised. I don't think the name brands have anything to worry about in North America and Europe because this machine isn't going to make it into the same sales channels and will remain a product only known by enthusiasts and small TH-cam audiences. As far as Asia goes, these machines and many others are already a big success.
Gaggia is really getting a lot of competition in what used to be an almost exclusive price point. It doesn't help that their latest Classics don't even do things much of the community wants. It feels like their Evo Pros should be THIS MACHINE.
I'm curious to see how this stacks up to something like the Profitec Go.
It's better than the Go. I just bought a Go, but it's $1000 USD and doesn't even have preinfusion
It pathetic gaggia can't add a PID to evo, took them how many years to make it 9 bar?? it's not rocket science, even water kettle have it
Profitec go price is near the e61 machines 400 and Rocket apartamento
Huh? Mine was 799 usd?
Rocket Apartmento is twice as expensive @@EVR1AL
When will the full review be released? subscribed
Would be interesting to compare components with the Gaggia or Bambino. This machine looks pretty good for the price.
The only problem for now is that the preorder uints are not arriving on time. They keep postponing the estimated date of arrival. It said "Container has left the manufacturer and is on the way" when I first saw it on the website in November. two months of shipment lol
Love the float in the drip tray!
Hey bro, do You recommend it for a small coffe shop? Or can You recommend me other, thank you in advance
No, this is not meant for commercial settings. You'll need to look at something rated for commercial use (for durability, and to pass a health inspection).
Consider La Spaciale, La Marzocco, Ascaso, etc
In the CDM, it's also available in Matte Black 🤙 Gemilai, who makes these, are a huge brand in China so no issues there.
i wanted black so back because it looks sick, i saw it on aliexpress but for 800 bucks lol. Ill stick with the stainless and possibly make it black myself
I am curious on how you managed to get 8 bars out of the box. On other reviewers of this product, the biggest gripe is usually the 15 bars OOB settings. I believe there is a little screw under the hooded part that houses the portafilter. I am not sure if that adjusts the bars or what. Also notable is the price in Canada is around 700 CA ,when compared to Gaggia its the same pricepoint. The SS boiler is a plus for me, given the coated aluminium boiler issues on Gaggia. Would be nice to see what's under the hood and the mods available, like the OPV mod needed (It does not come with OPV OOB) .
I’ve seen a few videos on this, and none were anywhere near this positive. Fit and finish were described as “ok” by most and the PID readout vs the actual temp where far apart until the machine had been on for over 15 minutes. Pre-infusion does nothing and might actually create more channeling. Hopefully your “in depth” review will be more than just an infomercial for Espresso Outlet. (BTW, I know this was a first impression, but you didn’t even taste the shot)
As far as Espresso Outlet goes, read the fine print. My experience for warranty claim is "the customer is not worth my time".
i would like to see a video of the internals. My Rancilio Silvia V2, ran like a champ for almost 12 years before i sold it. The internals on the Silvia V2 (cant speak of the newer ones) make sense for the price. All brass or copper fittings as well as pipes. The frame was a bit of a let down as it was prone to corrosion if paint chipped. For 4-5 hundred dollars more, you got performance and reliability albeit, a bit of a learning curve with temp surfing.
Thank you. I'd like to purchase this mashine but unfortunately its not yet availabe in germany.
Great review! Was wondering which is betterr Niche Duo or DF64 Gen2? Im really torn between those two (mainly espresso)
They’re very comparable. The DF Gen 2 is a cleaner workflow. Pick whichever one has the burr set you prefer available
I would love to know in the full review if the steam wand can be used for hot water.
This is the machine that Kafmasino has converted to create the KAFMASINO ONE. Now that functionality is pretty impressive, but with a higher price tag!
Somewhat impressive when you can go look at the source code for Gaggiuino before developing your own solution.
Can u set pressure?
No.
Turin (for Espresso Outlet) buys them for around $150, rebrands them, and sells them here for the “bargain” price of $500. Nice little profit margin and since they don’t actually make them, zero R&D or manufacturing costs. That being said, if they were $350 I’d probably jump on one, but not for $500.
Do you have any info about adjust a high end espresso machines extraction process and PID temperature, when one uses filtered Alkaline PH level watter ? Thanks
Same principles will apply for any espresso machine. Get a "reasonable" flow rate, and then dial in to taste
th-cam.com/video/D-bV4j-Z-sU/w-d-xo.html
Can you change the PID to Fahrenheit ?
No, apparently not. Sorry 🇺🇸
Wonder how this would compare against a Gaggia Classic Pro with the Gagguino mod?
I think both respond similarly to mods. There’s a company essentially making a Decent DE1 (tablet and all) using this unit as the base
Interesting! Do you have a link? I was more wondering in terms of feature parity how the stock Turin Legato out of the box compares with the gagguino modded GCP. Thanks for the reply :)
@AlanButterworth definitely wouldn’t have anywhere near the control or capabilities of a Gaggiuno out of the box. Tough to beat a modded Gaggia if you’re willing to do it!
Modded Turin is the "Kafmasino One" project
That actually looks pretty amazing, but it's twice the price of an unmodded Turin, or GCP + Gagguino, and it's out of stock!
have you tried and review hibrew h10a .
I have not
just wondering if this can steam milk while pulling a shot, without losing pressure? it might be a good upgrade for my hibrew h10a
This can not brew and steam at the same time
Hey, what's the DF64 dosing cup you have there??
It’s the one that comes with the Gen 2
This is incredibly exciting for the beginner/lower end espresso machine market I feel like PID and the ability to preinfuse should be the standard when it comes to machines these days in the $500-$750 USD price. Getting that early bird deal on espresso outlet putting the machine at $400 USD is an insane deal. Pretty much no point in buying the GCP when this thing exists. Only thing to wait for is the longevity and overall QC.
Bingo, biggest question mark is the unknown of reliability and after purchase support
@@LifestyleLab_reliability is questionable but if it’s through espressooutlet I am sure it will come with great support
Exactly those are not rocket science features, companies r milking consumers, like the sage infuser, has the ability but they made it 15 bar with smaller pf, like why???
PID adds like $5 to the BOM.
it is sold in china under the name of Gemilai CRM3007L, it also comes in Black color! it's tempting, i was saving for a Profitec Go and now i am considering this for the price especially its only third the cost of it! thanks for the video
Completely different machines in terms of build quality and steaming power, but this one does have a lot of features!
@@LifestyleLab_ Sure, I can imagine that the Profitec Go is way better in this regard, but considering the 3 times cost, it is not 3 times better than the Turin.
@@LifestyleLab_ Which one has superior build quality? I live in a place where I only have access to the Gemilai 3007L
Very nice. The steam came on very quickly. Even better than the Profitec Go. This is a "saturated group" design? Love that it has a PID, so important.
Just a label slapped on a China Manufacturer’s factory model. Guangdong Gemilai Intelligent Co., Ltd. is the manufacturer. Alibaba has them for under $200/ea if you buy in quantity.
I'm not sure why people find this concept so foreign. Espresso Outlet is an importer, and they do so under the name Turin. People do not have the capacity to buy machines in bulk, or provide after market support, this is what a state side retailer does. For those services, they mark up the price and make a profit... this is very common practice in all sorts of industries
TURIN is china's middleman to sell to the US market. After they come out with something, they get all the feedback from consumers and keep coming out with numerous versions month after month. Its hard to believe that the engineers dont know what they are doing. It feels like they PURPOSELY make an inferior product that seems great on paper, knowing buyers will keep buying upgrades and accessories. The DF grinder model made the company so much money. Youre telling me that the creators didnt know how to fix the declumper or the popcorning in version 1. I call b.s. from the get go
This actually matches my requested machine specs exactly (other than the SS finish). Unfortunately I gave up waiting during Black Friday and splurged for an ECM. But really should do very well for them
It would be nice to see some one check the temptures to see if machine is actually changing temps and the pre-infusion works. Dose look like a good starter machine an I always like to see competition.
Coffee Dad did a fuller review. He was impressed by the feature set, but not the build quality. He found the pre infusion worthless and the temperature was way off until the machine had been on for over 15 minutes. He actually tasted the coffee, and thought it was ok. The internals were solid but there was a lot of plastic. Pressure was 15 bar and was not adjustable. If this was $350 it really would be a bargain, but at $500 the Gaggia is a much safer bet IMHO.
I wouldn’t jump on this until you can find a video review that shows what’s under the hood. Often time you will find lots of plastic. Breville is guilty of this. Price and features often means compromise some where. Also I wouldn’t trust without an external temperature test and external pressure test.
When you take cover off it would be great to compare inside with something like the bambino
@@joekolb3937 when i was deciding on the Breville Dual Boiler, i found a video showing the internal and saw quite a bit of plastic, the OPV valve was completely plastic. Granted its got lots of features at an attractive price so make sense. Ultimately i decided on Lelit Elizabeth. I can tell you for Rancilio Silvia and Giggia Classic (dont know about the newer ones) have very solid build on the internal. Mostly metal. All the fitting and connectors were metal.
He keeps saying lookout Gaggia and Ranchilo, but with all the features jammed into this thing I suspect their target is really Breville. I found a video that looked under the hood. It was better than expected, but still had a LOT of plastic. This thing is not built to last.
I have ver.1 and the "pre-infusion" can be helped by using a metal disc screen which I normally run anyway. The machine build is a little "light", but it makes better espresso than our $1200 Breville Touch Impress! 😂 I'm not that concerned that it's not built like a tank, as long as the machine lasts 3-5yrs!
Why does it looks so much like the miicoffee and kafmasino 1
Cause they are exactly the same machine just rebranded
Is it an E61 style group? A Normcore portafilter would be a nice upgrade, if so.
This is so dope. I have a 2004 GC and I just swapped out the boiler for one similar to the evo… makes me wish I saved my $60 and upgraded to this instead 😆
Does anyone know where to get a single hole steam tip?
high hope for gen 2 of this
This is not a “gen 1” machine per se. It’s been around for over 10 years and several iterations. Just the first time it’s “landing” in North America
I am excited about the idea of a "white box" or generic espresso machine if they can deliver quality at a cheaper price a la the DF64. The true test will be white box versions of a Lelit Bianca or La Marzocco Linea mini at an affordable price.
Same as Kafmasino, which is already more than a year old. I don't get why this machine suddenly gets so much attention
Because they figured out in order to get into the western market turns out to be just branding.
looks like a rebadged Gemilai CRM3007L which is around $200
This was said in the video, yes
In your review video, can you compare it to other PID machines such as Lelit Anna and Profitec Go? :)
Thanks for the video! Just wish you also tried fresh beans and did a quick taste test. Big miss in my opinion.
Absolutely nothing to be learned from a single shot on a single grinder. This was just a first impressions live unboxing. Giving an opinion right off the bat would have provided no value
@@LifestyleLab_ but you provided an opinion vs other machines. That’s where I’m coming from. Nonetheless, appreciate your videos man.
@sixelanavi03 espresso machines are generally function focused in the value they bring. Compared to the grinder, they have very little impact on the quality of the drink. Sort of like a camera body vs the lens in front of it :)
@@LifestyleLab_ fair enough!
@@LifestyleLab_Except you did give a LOT of opinions on things like build quality and features (compared to other brands) without really testing any of them or opening it up for a view of the internals. I know that’s probably coming in a future video, but this was heavily positive without much more than a cursory view.
Why would you fill it with stale coffee and not even taste test a shot? Also a view inside the unit would be appreciated. Not a bad review, just missing data
Because this wasn't a review. It was a quick first look and unboxing
Comparing this to the Rancilio Silvia based on a list of features and one poorly pulled shot, is a stretch. Seemed more like a commercial for Espresso Outlet.
It’s an initial impressions video… you see me literally take it out of the box… I don’t think you can disagree that the feature list of this unit walks all over the Gaggia and Rancilio. Sorry to offend you
It’s really disingenuous to say that this is “made by Turin”.
Turin is the House Brand of Espresso Outlet.
They put their name on anything that fits their catalogue. They can be from one or a dozen factories.
There’s nothing wrong with this, but it’s an important piece of info to get right.
We private label them Turin, but machine wouldn't exist in current configuration without us. So made by Turin? Depends on your definition but we had several important things changed and wouldn't be in usa market without us
TURIN is china's middleman to sell to the US market. After they come out with something, they get all the feedback from consumers and keep coming out with numerous versions month after month. Its hard to believe that the engineers dont know what they are doing. It feels like they PURPOSELY make an inferior product that seems great on paper, knowing buyers will keep buying upgrades and accessories. The DF grinder model made the company so much money. Youre telling me that the creators didnt know how to fix the declumper or the popcorning in version 1. I call b.s. from the get go
Add. dimmer mod to pump and you've got a budget decent alternative
(yes I know it won't be the same, I own one)
Looks like a Gemilai. rebranded as Turin.
This was specifically mentioned in the video :)
PID and pressure gage for under $500. If it works at all is should drag down pricing, and/or increase features, for competitors
Chinese build? Lot of options I agree but longevity is the question. I've been burned before even if they cover it. Time down inconvenience. I'll stick with Italian build quality for now. It will be interesting to see if this unit is as good as we hope though.
I have a GCP and frankly I'd be surprised if any part of it is actually manufactured in Italy.
Espresso Outlet has Turin, Clive have Lucca, and Seattle Coffee Gear have Diletta. I’m sure they’re decent units, but it’s obvious they are making a huge markup on these “house brands”. (Makes me wonder why Whole Latte Love never went this route)
@@tomscott4438 I bought my little set up from Wholelatte. So far so good
Hasn’t this same machine been out for over a year or more under another name?
More like 5 years. Turin (for Espresso Outlet) buys them for around $150, rebrands them, and sells them here for the “bargain” price of $500. Nice little profit margin and since they don’t actually make them, zero R&D or manufacturing costs. If they were $350 I’d probably jump on one, but not for $500.
Will see. I just watch another review and the pre infusion is useless.
How so?
Genuinely curious as you just saw the extent of my experience so far
@@LifestyleLab_ i don't know what he was referring to, but in general if you're switching between different kinds of beans all programmable pre-infusion options are useless. They're either too short (lower part of the puck remains dry) or too long (too much coffee ends up in the cup before the pause). Manual pre-infusion, based on looking for puck saturation, is a lot more useful and accurate. I know this because my machine (a Lelit Bianca) supports both methods.
@@LifestyleLab_it’s a pre-infusion mimic, as it will hit the puck at full pump pressure for a second and the remaining time is just wait time. It will never do any saturation.
Dang am I going to have an all Turin bar? I already have a DF64V. I wanted something in the $1000-$1200 range but this is even beating out that stuff
It's a about time to bring competition to the budget market, there is nothing complex about a consumer espresso machine, company like gaggia is milking consumers by adding a real featute every 5 yrs lol like how hard is it to make it 9bar and add a pid???
Love these first impressions :)
Lelit look alike!!!
What's your go to budget espresso machine?
Currently, the Gaggia Classic Pro or Breville Bambino Plus
@@LifestyleLab_ Thanks very much.
This machine has been on the market in the EU for a while (more than a year I think), under the name AVX DB1.
They all come from the same factory, with different brand names stamped on it. A nice machine for the price point for sure.
Yup and Turin making it sound like its their own machine 😂 they didnt even bother putting the brand like Miicoffee did
@@10000romanthat miicoffee branding is such a turn off 🫣
Not a fan of thermoblock systems, so a big NO from me.
Interesting!
What don’t you like about using a thermoblock for steaming?
Slow, underpowered, the capillaries are prone to blockages, thermoblocks are not serviceable, and expensive to replace. Also, unless you're a techno fan, the noise is annoying.
Lol thermoblock is not some advanced technology, my bidet has one
This is a great it is nice df or turin comes in this market of mid range coffee machines, and have intersting features for the price. people don"t really realize that more competition brings more innovation thus more more features and a A good price-performance ratio. This is how all the technologies are more affordable than say twenty years ago. Anyways great first impression mate.
Gonna repeat what others have said and wondering how this compares to the Profitec Go!
More features on this, but the Profitec definitely wins out in terms of build quality and steaming power as you'd expect
Just get a crossland cc1.....
2:32 the group (and therefore boiler) is not straight in the frame. In fact the whole thing looks bent out of true. Yikes, not a great look.
It’s just the angle of the camera… everything is parallel
Identical to the miicoffee apex. Same machine, rebranded. Nothing special just a cash grab
Isn’t every business a “cash grab”??
What’s wrong with finding a supplier for a product and selling it…
Been waiting to get my first espresso machines since early 2023 and till now havent get one hahaha , i dont know what stopped me
I don't care about this machine but I like your reviews
Mmmn make me sum
No doubt this machine is a pretty well equipped for the price, but let’s be real, the price companies charge for these features is way over priced. With that said, I feel like this is a great machine for someone who’s not sure if this will to be a real/long term hobby. This thing may last a few years, at which, time said person could upgrade.
Omg it look like lelit. NGL
This comment section is coffee snob gatekeeping at its finest. “This can’t be as good as my $1000 machine. It’s not even Italian” blah blah blah. Gaggia and rancilio are falling behind mainly because they don’t want to eat into their profit margin. The new machines should have newer features that the community is asking for, yet they don’t add simple things like PIDs. Way to go @espressooutlet
Nice Profitec… I mean “turin”
How is this a Profitec?
@@LifestyleLab_lol dude why do you get offended so easily? The idea behind my comment was about the design. They pretty much copied how the Profitec Go looks… buttons placement, steam knob, analogue gauge…
I’m just clarifying? Not offended at all, just wondering what aspect of this unit is Protofec-esq to you
@@LifestyleLab_ yeah design for sure
Why is this guy deleting comments for people not agreeing with this machine because of its origins
I haven’t deleted any comments?
How do you “agree” with a machine? People in the coffee community can be so fucking stupid.
Be respectful and follow community guidelines. It's not hard, and your comments won't get deleted.
@@LifestyleLab_my comment keeps getting deleted and I wasn’t rude or anything like that
@@BananaChipzzzbecause a few individuals commented on this machine being Made in ... ? Consumers have the right to buy as they please. Even if their biggest concern is which country it was made in. It was mentioned in the comments that some feel this machine (made in ....) is in no means up to its italian gaggia counterpart
Don't forget to mention made in China lol. The internal is very cheaply made.
One does not equal the other. This machine was been sold for over 10 years now. Do your research
@@LifestyleLab_ Sold for 10 years, and barely has a market in the EU and US...
China is one of the largest markets in the world… millions of brands exist there that are not in NA and the EU
Beautiful machine and thank you for an actual reaction video. I'm hesitant in purchasing this machine on the fact that it's version 1 and with Turin's track record they tend to release V2 of their products rather quickly. I do however admire that price point! Now we're talking! I love the competitiveness that this company aims for. 👏👏👏
This model has been sold for quite a few years already in other country. While it is definitly cheaper built it's still packed with features. Probably won't last you 20 years but let's be honest no machine last that long without any repairs anyway.
first comment :)
67seconf shot time. Good lord
What happens when you’re truly shooting a live unboxing without even dialing in!