I think Wayne is way off base. No one into audio believes they are going to replace or reproduce a live concert experience. And the fact that audio is unable to do that, does not make it 'snake oil'. I am a member of the Los Angeles and Orange County Audio Society, the largest audiophile club in the world, and not a single member I have ever talked to believes they are reproducing a live experience. All that audio does, is give us a window into the original event. The better the system is, the larger, cleaner, less distorting that window becomes.
Also worth pointing out: lots of music is not a band playing; it's electronically produced music that is played over giant speakers during a concert, and those speakers aren't hi-fi. Just purely in terms of the texture of the sound, a high-end system at home actually sounds better in that case. 'course that doesn't account for the feel of the crowd and the place, which just can't be reproduced.
As an old guy myself, I couldn't help notice that at best most of these audiophiles are long past hearing the top octave out of any system we hear, and so anything that claims to affect the subtle effects steming from the high frequencies is snake oil to us.
Michael Knoerzer I am 67 years old now and have good hearing but have some loss in the upper octave I am sure. Just a slight bit of treble boost is all that is needed for us. Tone controls are NOT snake oil and can help make up for deficiencies or differences in taste, recordings, speakers.
Anything that does not stand up to rigorous blind testing is snake oil. Even gear that measures well is a type of snake oil if the improvements over lesser equipment is not discernible to the human ear.
Definitely not a form of snake oil. Better specs are obtained by building better equipment. Granted there is a point where most can't hear the difference. If you can't hear it save your money. But better gear is better gear. Snake oil is imagined orovements that can't be backed by science
Snake oil is a step above the diminishing returns found in all high end audio. Snake oil is when a product makes no logical sense, provides no measurable audio improvement but is still highly priced.
adding a heavy melon atop a speaker would change the sound for physical reasons, snake oil could apply if you claimed the sound was improved and you charged $1000 for the melon.
Hmph! I find 50lbs of cast iron stops my subs from hopping around the room. My relatives refuse to hold them down for more than a couple of minutes.... Hardly long enough to make it worth paying them;-/ ( See thumbnail ;-)
Of course it has to be the right kind of melon. Some of your cheaper Mexican or American grown water melons are simply not as sonically transparent or revealing as your higher end Japanese square water melons.
The whole concept of "Audiophile" is Snakeoil. It is a concept invented by Hifi Salesmen and high end Audio Equipment manufactuers to create a consumer class, for them to manipulate with praise and derision.
@@_Chev_Chelios OK, but Seinfeld is still snake oil
5 ปีที่แล้ว +16
A was an "audiophile" and spent thousends on gear untill I went to a recording studio with amps and speskers three times cheaper than mines and was blow away by the quality sound. Since that day I didn't spend one more dolar on gear and all the money went to room acoustics. That day I learned that a 10.000 system in a 10.000 room sounds way way better than a 50.000 system on an average living room.
The room honestly makes the biggest difference. Sound is complex in the way it interacts with walls and surfaces, and the better you optimize that the better your system sounds.
What surely isn't Snake Oil is friendship. I wish there were clubs like this in all the small towns in the USA. I bet it would beat most psychiatrists' couches in making ones life a nicer journey. You guys are blessed! P.S. Are AC power regenerators like the expensive PS Audio units Snake Oil?
Don't know about friendship, but I KNOW that anyone spending a fine fortune in a PS Audio (or whatever the brand) AC power regenerator needs one or maybe two pschyatrists.
Ventura Rodríguez Vallejo PS audio regenerator needs not be expensive but they help me a lot in my audio system. Flactuations in power were gone and drop in noise during playback get me more in my seat. Regenerators are good especially in those countries who experience power problems and needed them, but the price of it is I think the ¨snake oil¨at best.
@martytoo Very well said, and thank you for saying it! As for Power Regenerators: Clean power going to your system is vital. The cleaner you can make your power source, the cleaner the sound coming out the other end will be. However, the ways in which you get that clean power will also make a difference. I can't speak for PS Audio as a company, having never tried any of their products myself; but I can tell you to be cautious, do your research, and audition before making a final purchase if at all possible.
I think power regulation is really important to preserve your equipment and to help it sounds it's best. I'm sure PS Audio's power regenerators are great and I bet they aren't excessively overpriced for what they cost to make. However, I seriously doubt they make as much difference in sound as the same amount of money put into room treatment or source components or some nice furniture etc. I think we forget that listening to and using a stereo is far more than just sound quality. A good power regulation system gives audiophiles the knowledge that they are doing what they can to protect their investments and help eliminate sources of trouble, even if they probably won't be able to hear a difference. I also bet some equipment benefits from it far more than others.
Well, power regenerators both are and aren’t snakeoil. Noisefree power actually makes a difference, but this can be achieved by using a simple RC filter and (in case of noisy ground) an isolation transformer. No need to overcomplicate this by completely regenerate the power. The issue I have with PSAudio is that you pay for ~90% branding and ~10% product.
Yes, but music is feelings, so it's not strange that we need a special vocabulary to describe sound difference when the difference is there but it's hard to describe with normal words.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 But it's all useless if those words aren't clearly defined. Much of terminology they use is ambiguous at best, so it's not actually conveying any real information. Really, I can learn more about the sound of a piece of equipment by looking a frequency response chart for 2m then I could from listening to one of these guys talk about it for 30.
So happy to see Joe again. He’s my favorite guest you have ever featured. I just love the guy- he’s no nonsense, and I think he has a good perspective on the hobby.
When people say that a particular piece of audio equipment, especially speakers and headphones, "break-in" what they fail to understand is that there is nothing about the materials that they are made from that actually changes. If something in them does change then it means that they are defective went out of spec in some way. What is actually happening is that a person simply gets used to the perceived sound quality; EG: it is their brains that adjust to how their equipment sounds and not the other way around. All audio equipment has a unique sound signature and when a person hears a new piece of equipment for the first time, it may take a little while to become accustomed to it. The human bran is a highly imperfect thing, especially when it comes to memory. I'm not going to go into details about it here because it is easy enough to look up. On a side note, I have have been using cheap 18 gauge speaker wire with clear insulation for many years to connect my receivers to the speakers being used and they sound perfectly fine to me, and I am a perfectionist when it comes to sound quality. I have compared Monster Cables to cheap cables and have heard no difference in sound quality and I have very sensitive ears. I am amused every time I see speaker wire stands, as if raising a cable a few inches above a floor that has no RF signals below it actually does anything, other than making the person who bought them look foolish. 🤦♂️ Oh, with regards to this video, I stopped watching it after about a third of the way into it because most of the self proclaimed "audiophiles" (there is no set standard) would say something smart, but then mention things I know to be false as being true. One prime example is that analog audio sounds better than digital, as if imperfection is somehow superior. I do understand that a lot of people like hearing imperfections that vinyl adds to the recorded sound and that's fine, for them. I suppose that I can claim that I am a perfectionist, perhaps due to having OCD. I have digitized my vinyl collection and the WAV files sound exactly the same as the analog sources and I'm willing to bet that no one would be able to tell the difference between the vinyl record being played as the source and the digital copy of it. CDs have a resolution that vinyl just can't match, as many of you probably already know; not to mention the total lack of sibilant distortion that plagues many vinyl recordings, especially pop albums. Well, OK, perhaps a thousand dollar+ moving coil cartridge that I have never been able to afford might help or even eliminate such distortion, but why should I go through that when CDs sound exactly as the audio engineer intended the music to sound in the first place? One reason why I like this video is because of how it shows that so-called "audiophiles" are just as imperfect as every other human being.
What is definitely not snake oil- but almost never gets mentioned- is a pair of high quality, well programmed hearing aids. They have been an essential complement to both my home stereo systems, and my live music listening, for about 10 years now. The technology of hearing aids keeps improving in dramatic ways. And once you've made that leap, hearing differences in equipment (or, for example, in hall acoustics where you listen to live music) becomes exciting; at that point the brain can be trained to help improve the acuity of musical perception. All that comes before any of these discussions about exotic electronic equipment!
Mac Moss : Great point. I was just thinking how much better I can see with my new glasses, but never gave a thought to hearing aids and listening. Thanks. What brand do you recommend?
I mean if you have a well tuned ear it makes sense changing component materials changes sound.... Same reason they love tube amps. Even slight changes could in theory be heard if your sensory threshold is ow enough. I'm no audiophile and think accuracy is most important, and playing with random fittings and materials will not get you to a replicatable set up. But you might find something that sounds better to your ear even if it's not more accurate in any objective way. I probably am in the bottom 5% of money put into my system on who watched this video. I do not buy this sort of stuff.....But if i had spent tens of thousands on my system yea i'd play with the cords if i thought they were acting as a psuedo equalizer.
@@ericmiller254 it would be useful if any subjective review of any audio produtc could be back up by standardized spectrum analysis, impedance curves, etc. Cables are the simplest component and funny enough are the ones that came with the less amount concrete data and instead they came with lots of claims founded by whishfull poetry. The headphone/dac crowd, which is a more recent audiophile branch, are much more demanding of concrete data. They produce 3d waterfall graphic representations of the fequency response for instance. The audiofools pay hundreds for 1 meter power cable and forget the all electrical installation inside the walls. Let alone if that has any effect on the retifier section on the power supply section of their amps. The retifiers only need to transform the ac grid power to a fixed dc voltage rail. If the cheap included power cable and the 500 dollar power cable produces the same values to the rails then....well, this would leed less porsche sales i suppose.
@@xedasxedas You make the assumption that the differences we hear will be reflected in the test equipment that currently exists. There is still much that is unknown about why things sound the way they do to us.
@@VideoArchiveGuy You make the assumption that i don't know what kind of test equipement exists and how good it can be. Also, the responsability to provide proof for "ridiculous claims" rests on those who make them not in those who call it bs. Claiming you "hear the different" is not a proof by the way, specially when a +125 dB spectrum analizer cant mesure the difference between to speaker cables for instance. It's funny the the unknown part of the sciences behind these issues like psicho acoustics can be used against those who try to use it and those against those who denied it. Please bare in mind that this "magical" instrumentation knowledge put a analisar on the moon, enables terabytes/sec communications and nanotechnology. Stay safe .
Never underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance. I mean, if you spend a few hundred or even a few thousands bucks on something, it surely must be better right?
Since I can’t hear the tone this comment was written I’m gonna guess that you were sarcastic towards the end. Cognitive dissonance is something that is very very serious, but it does not fit with your example entirely! To me it sounds more like a placebo effect whereas cognitive dissonance is more likely to occur when 3 people 1 newbie observing and 2 experienced people debate and defend their point of view. Or when watching creators on TH-cam or videos like these where the cognitive spectator feels pressured to make a decision as to who he believes.
@@itsfilipbitch5545 Cognitive Dissonance is simply said a conflict between heart and mind. "I spent 500 bucks on new cables but can't hear a difference, which makes me feel stupid, but my ego doesn't want to feel stupid so I create the illusion of hearing a difference" Ex post reasoning/buyer's remorse. Your examples are what I'd categorize as Dissociative Group phenomena. "Experienced vs. inexperienced user, who'd you rather believe?" The terms Cognitive Dissonance/Dissociative Group when used in marketing/consumer behavior are quite broadly defined, so lets better not start splitting hairs.
What I noticed is that most of these guy’s are around my age and none of them is wearing hearing aids. All of them have some hearing loss. What is NOT snake oil is that ALL of their systems will sound better with proper hearing aids. I was once in denial that I needed them as I’m sure they and you are. This may be your cheapest and best upgrade.
Great perspectives from all these people! The gentleman who buys tickets for performances (instead of audio) reminded me that's what our hobby seeks to replicate, so... I can't argue with him.
seeburg10 Any reproduction can never replicate the sound/feeling from a live performance for many reasons. Both have their place. But truly excellent sound does not need to be exorbitant in cost. Paying attention to the speakers, speaker setup and room acoustics are the main factors in great reproduced sound.
Depends on the style of music. If classical, it is very difficult to replicate the scale of the hall in a room. If pop music, a live concert is going to be loud and in mono. I much prefer pop music, so I find high end equipment sounding better than real life. Listening to pop music is like watching a movie. If you took away the post-production in a movie, the movie will look like a home video. ie. Rubbish.
@@edthefirst2859 When it comes to pop music, which goes through the mixing and mastering process, where they apply compression and EQ to prevent instruments from walking over each other, it is hard to say exactly what the real thing is.
I saw a classical concert recently and it surprised me how different the recording was compared to the real thing. The real thing was definitely less clear without any stereo effect whatsoever. It felt like a wall of sound. But there was a physical presence which the recording lacked.
Watermelons. Love it! And his point about everything making a DIFFERENCE but not necessarily making IMPROVEMENTS makes a lot of sense to me. Recently I was thinking about all the factors in a room that people don't talk about - temperature, humidity, light...and wondering how those affect what you hear. And then I thought about a listener's own body and mood - are you tired or hungry or stressed, etc.
We interrupt this program with breaking news. There has been a run on watermelons at all local grocery markets. Witnesses detail older men grabbing melons in twos and walking out the backwoods, ah, backdoors of these establishments. No one knows what has sparked such a buying frenzy of said watermelons, but one customer was followed home and it appears they are being placed upon what appears to be...speaker boxes???
Snake Oil: speaker cable lifters. Easy to test by raising your cables. Never heard any different whether on hard wood, carpet or cement. Expensive interconnects and speaker cables to "me" tend to be tone controls. Those little dots and wood things can't do anything for you except take your money. Super expensive audio gear too. Really, amps that cost as much as a home? Pre amp that cost as much as a car? Speakers will sound different, but worth the cost of a nice home? I admit that these are toys for the wealthy as are most exotic and expensive things. I remember when I first got started in audio in the early 70's that the "high end" equipment, while expensive, was in reach of my blue collar salary. Not any more. I stopped "upgrading" well over 20 years ago. The cost of getting something better just didn't make sense economically. And my current "old" system still sounds great.
I had a different experience from you. I heard a very high-end stereo with and without Shunyata Cable Elevators. The noise floor dropped significantly with the Elevators. Of course, close minded people who have never heard a truly high-end stereo with and without them will claim this is another example the placebo effect and demand a double-blind study. I own a pair of Ultimate interconnects from High Fidelity Cables. Yes, they do make my stereo sound different AND better by dramatically lowering the noise floor and allowing more music to come through. I couldn’t hear any negative coloration and it certainly wasn’t a “hi-fi” type sound I heard. If you’ve never heard what they can do, please don’t leave any insulting remarks. Same goes for expensive components. There are a lot of over-priced high status brands on the market that in reality don’t sound very good. But there are also some expensive components on the market that will bring tears to your eyes because they really allow the emotional nuances to come through. Three examples that I’ve heard are the Cary CAD-300SEI integrated amplifier, the Cary CAD-805RS mono block amplifiers, and the First Sound Paramount MKIII-S Super Special Edition Statement preamplifier. Again, most people have never heard audio gear like this so it’s easy for them to make fun of high-end components. Most so-called high-end gear that people are familiar with is mediocre at best. A few weeks ago I was at Best Buy and while I was there, I listened to a pair of giant KEF Blade speakers powered by Classe mono block amplifiers. It must have been at least a $40K system. I was unimpressed, to say the least. So I’m not surprised that there a backlash against high-end audio.
@@LorenzoNW I'm not going to bash or insult. But, I have one question: Wouldn't the double-blind study be a sufficient and empirically sound means of testing the theory? Right. So, if they're so much better, where are the double-blind studies?
@@techrider2088 I never heard of FMS or Mosaic cables so I can’t comment on them. The Ultimate interconnects from High Fidelity Cables are just magical sounding. But I don’t recommend them for a system that isn’t truly high-end. And by “system”, I’m including components, cables, power conditioning, platforms, and room treatment. I also own one of HFC’s MC-0.5 power conditioners. It does a nice job of reducing noise, even with my existing power conditioner, although I should probably have four of them for the maximum benefit.
@@zizendorf The subject of double-blind tests for stereo systems, cables, components, tweaks, and power conditioners has been discussed and argued over ad infinitum for years, but I’ll assume your question is sincere so I’ll take the time to reply. First of all, an argument can be made that the people involved in the test need trained ears. Let me explain. Most people who are new audio are immediately impressed by the “wow factor”, that hi-fi sound in which everything is exaggerated. You can hear a pin drop or the sound of a breath or the separation between each string. But what they aren’t listening for is musicality. What they’re hearing in such a system is coloration, which can be very enticing at first but gets really old and fatiguing after a while. What more experienced audiophiles will listen for is if something sounds musically and emotionally engaging, something akin to a real musical experience. Another problem with double-blind tests for stereo systems is that there are so many things going on in a piece of music that it’s impossible to keep track and remember of everything - attack, decay, dynamics, micro-dynamics, soundstage, and at least a dozen other criteria. To get a good sense of what you’re hearing, you’ll probably want to listen for at least half hour. Our audio memory is very short so when you then interchange cables or components, it can be difficult to near impossible to recall exactly what you heard even a half hour ago. A third problem is translating a double-blind test into something that’s useable for you. Let’s say a group of trained listeners do a test comparing an Audience frontRow power Chord against a stock power cord, using commensurate high-end components, speakers, cables, platforms, power conditioning, and room treatments. I guarantee you that every listener will prefer the Audience. But what I can’t guarantee is whether or not you’ll hear any improvement on your Denon or Yamaha receiver, disregarding the fact that it would be a ridiculous area to upgrade in such a system. But you get my point. There are so many variables in a system that it’s near impossible to generalize what one piece of gear will sound like in every system. In the case of the Shunyata Cable Elevators, he had previously used other cable lifters that didn’t make any difference. And this was on a very revealing $70K stereo system. BUT INSTEAD OF INQUIRING ABOUT DOUBLE-BLIND TESTS, MY QUESTION IS THIS: Why not simply listen for yourself and decide with your own ears if you hear a significant improvement or not? I own a Cary CAD-300SEI with NOS tubes. On paper, the amp sucks and there are plenty of cheap solid-state amps that blow it out of the water with much better specs. So why did I buy it? Go listen to a good 300B SET amp and you’ll know for yourself. This isn’t rocket science. I bought a pair of Ultimate interconnects by High Fidelity Cables because of how it sounded in my system, not because of all the scientific gobbledygook surrounding how it works. It totally transformed my system for the better and I don’t need validation from a test to know what I’m hearing. If you don’t trust your own ears and your own judgement, go with a friend to a stereo shop and ask the dealer to assist you in setting up a double-blind test if you think that will help you make an informed buying decision. I don’t know where you live but my favorite audio shop in the Northwest is The Audio Connection in Seattle. The owner is honest and very knowledgeable. He’ll ask about your listening room and your budget, then set something up for you to listen to without telling you what you should hear.
Perhaps there are those who have found a viable use for snake oil. If so, there are instances where even snake oil isn't snake oil. But a $2500 AC cord? No.
Its hard to tell. After reading many papers on human hearing and psychoacoustics. The way sound memory works and how the brain processes sound makes it nearly impossible to compare to audio components that perform similarly. This has ALWAYS been proven with double blind testing or even blind testing. Once you know what the gear is it can have an effect on your hearing. Sound is like any other sense in that its personal. I think of it like food, you can't possibly know what something tastes like for another person, our tounges are all a little different and then theres preferences on top of that. Just work towards making a cheeseburger YOU want to eat and can afford.
You know what really gets me? I think what sounds best DEPENDS on the last thing you've listened to. If you're doing A/B/etc. comparisons then your answer could probably change each time depending on in what order you listen to the systems/components. I think it's a little bit like food: you need to be able to "cleanse your palate" so to speak after each audition. Perhaps take some time for the memory of the last system to get out of your head.
@@vagabond197979 It's possible for the same music to sound slightly different each time we listen based on how human memory works. Thats why in blind tests when they don't change anything yet people claim they hear new or different things. We've all experienced this listing to our favorite song over and over on our system or headphones. Look into psudo and psycoacoutics the human brain is easily tricked and is constantly making adjustments to what we hear based on things like first order reflections. Maybe if your truly a trained listener or musician you may be better but most people aren't. Our ears also adjust for higher SPL after a few minutes thats why we keep turning it up. Because of this we lose some dynamic range in our hearing.
My experience with the various tweaks to my audiophile satisfaction is proportionally exclusive to the amount of ale and glorious edibles consumed. Cheers.
@@twhalen ya I agree. A well produced recording played back on a nice vinyl or cd system is still as good as it gets. I don't think it will get much better until there is a real breakthrough change in speaker design.....something that is a totally new way to interact with recorded music......until then LP and CD are as good as it gets..... audiophiles will fool themselves with confirmation bias but our ability to hear substantial improvements with high Rez recordings has proven to not pass the test when put through well implemented blindfold tests with the general public.
Rule #1 - form follow functions. Signal cables should be well insulated, speaker cables should be adequate to carry the current to the speakers. Same goes with power cables. Rule #2 - diminishing return. Improvements are the most obvious when better cables replacing crappy cables (see rule #1). Once it goes to a certain performance level, any more expensive cables will/may only give you minimal improvements, if any, and you may not notice it. Rule #3 - focus on the weakest links. Why spend $10,000 on a power cable when your wall sockets are connected to the service panel on $2 per feet #16 power wire? Are there any other appliances sharing the same power circuit? What about your neighbors? Are they running power tools? Same goes with signal cables. Inside the power amp, the wires coming out of the transistors are very thin. Probably 10 times thinner than your speaker cable. What can you do about it?
People often think different sounds better because of the wow factor. More experienced audiophiles call this a hi-fi sound, where everything sounds exaggerated. That's why many manufacturers add coloration to their components and speakers. Coloration can be very appealing at first but it gets old after a while. And that's also why double-blind studies are flawed and why professional reviewers avoid them. Most people in double-blind studies have no idea what to listen for. And a real reviewer has to listen over time to various kinds of music to properly evaluate audio gear. You're also right about price. I've seen people in audio auditions who were blown away by expensive high-status name brands that sounded mediocre at best.
Yes different is not always better but people so often are just bored of what they have and are enticed by 'different'. This difference might sound good at first but it will most certainly get old too. It's hard to say for sure that something sounds better without testing side by side. Although even that can be flawed. Looking at price tags will most definitely bias people towards the more expensive option. But that's down to our irrational brains not cooperating with us. If you think you're not going to fall for your brains little tricks, you are mistaken and will definitely be fooled by some snake oil eventually. Taking your time to think about it rationally and being critical are your best tools to fight snake oil.
DaSkaterdude97 who is it hurting if someone wants to spend their money on a cable or accessory that sounds good to the buyer’s ears? What do you care what people choose to spend their money on to get a little pleasure in their life? What are you, the other people ‘s finance nazi?
@@edthefirst2859 I never said people shouldn't buy something that does sound good. You must not have read all of my comments on this video. I've actually stated if you enjoy it and can afford it all the more power to you. The thing is, what sounds better at first might only sound better because it isn't what you hear on a daily basis. Our brains aren't as rational as most people think they are. So just take time to think about what you heard, if possible give it a couple of listens across a few days/weeks then decide whether it's worth it to you. I just don't want to see people regret their purchases. It's happened to me in the past and probably most people here. It sucks to spend your hard earned money on something that you're not happy with later down the road. Especially if it's not cheap.
DaSkaterdude97 it’s still none of your concern what people choose to spend their money on. Are you also chastising people who spend extra for “craft” beers, when everyone knows they all taste the same?
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q "Amazing" is relative. You might get away with calling them amazing for what they cost but you're not going to find speakers that sound truly emotionally and musically engaging for the price of a pair of RP 600M speakers. And to get truly amazing sound, you'll also need commensurate components, power conditioning, cables, tweaks, and room treatment. Amazing sound doesn't come cheap.
@@LorenzoNW I couldn't agree more, the room matters so much. As a student I've moved around a bit from rental property to rental property. Man, could I ever hear the difference between different rooms and different speakers positions.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Back in the early 1980's (no internet) after I got married my wife and I went to an audio store to get a pair of speakers to complete our stereo system for our new house. We listened to ( maybe 6 ) pairs of speakers and amazingly we both pointed to the same pair we thought were the best sounding. They were not the most expensive, I think they were second most expensive. I guess the point I am making is that you have to listen at good "audio" stores which is getting harder to do these days locally.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Back in the early 1980's ( before the internet ) after I got married my wife and I went to an audio store to get a pair of speakers for our stereo system for our new house. We listened to ( I think 6 ) pairs of speakers and amazingly we both pointed to the same pair that sounded the best to us. They were not the most expensive, I think they were the second most expensive. The point I am making is that you have to go to a good "audio" store and listen which is getting harder to do locally.
I am a very inexperience audio enthusiast as I haven't had the chance to listen to a lot of equipment. However, I am an electronics engineer as well. I want to have an open mind when approaching this hobby so that I can have surprising experiences and discover new mysteries. With that said, armed with years of study of electronics make believing some claims impossible: - digital cables/filters/reclockers: bits are bits. There may be some corner cases where cables could make a difference for very poorly designed digital interfaces, but I would rather buy a better designed product than fix one with expensive cables. - analog/power cables and fuses: nothing magic going on with these; just a matter of conduction. Silver only has about 5-10% better conductivity than copper but costs 100x more. Clearly increasing the diameter of the conductor is a much more reasonable solution. - gold anything for improving sound: Gold plating is common for fighting corrosion on contacts and improving reliability, but it has worse conductivity than copper so it's not going to help improve sound quality. - Burn in / long thermal equilibrium time for electrical components: I can believe burn in for acoustic components, but electronics operate within the manufacturer's stated specs from the first moment they're powered. I have never heard anywhere else in the electronics industry where burn in time is even considered, not even in very high precision devices. Along the same lines, I have heard claims that poorly performing equipment will sound different once it reaches thermal equilibrium after days of continuous on-time. Temperature equilibrium takes a matter of minutes to settle, not days. If a design is dependent on a few degrees of temperature, then that means that a sound system could vary with ambient temp like between a winter day or a summer day or even from afternoon to night. Who would want a sound system which performed like that?
- expensive power cables - spending thousands on equipment and expecting monumental improvements - cheap d amplifiers making thousands of watts - ignoring source quality and room treatment and speaker placement over gear
You have to get the right gear for your listening environment, and not your dream gear because that probably won't fit the room. Oversized speakers can sound worse in the same space than smaller ones. Been to a hi-fi shop in Exeter, UK, and had a chance to listen to some high end stuff. Big Tower speakers £4000+ a piece, and some crazy rig with 4-5 different black boxes with some supposedly awesome source... rig was about £15 000... the room was about 9'-12''x15' maybe I can't remember... and the experience was really weird... didn't feel right... the imaging was disjointed, the whole thing felt dull and lifeless, weak.. While at home, in a 14'x18' room, my matched Pioneer Whiskey Barrel speakers raised to ear level through a £200 amp through a ASUS Xonar STX2 sound card just filled the room, had body, when I was listening to singers I was able to picture them in front of me... and I didn't have to listen to it loudly to get this result... So the right gear over the best possible gear for your wallet.
Agree with most of this except the cable bit... A cable (interconnect, speaker, or power) acts as a filter because depending on length, geometry, etc it will have difference resistance, capacitance, and inductance. I was particularly surprised to hear (slight but present) differences with power cables. So I think it is really hard to be strict about whether they do or don’t make a difference. However, if anything, the most difference comes from speaker placement and room treatment, for sure.
What expensive power cables have you actually auditioned and in what audio system? Most people who make claims similar yours have no real experience and are just regurgitating what they've heard from others.
@@LorenzoNW This is my system: goo.gl/66fjxw and the power cables I have auditioned are from Audio Note (~$4k, which is what I currently use in my amp), Audience, Shunyata, and a few others whose brands I don't recall. And frankly, don't be so ignorant to assume people have not listened to these...
@@O.G.LIL-MAN If both come from identical source material then they will look identical. A DVD movie can look better than the VHS release because it has a larger capacity and therefore can hold more information. One Ethernet cable is identical to the same speed Ethernet cable as they are transferring a digital signal of 1's and 0's that either get transmitted and interpreted or do not. There is no mechanism for the content to be influenced in the way analog may be.
I've never heard a single piece of audio equipment sound different after "burn in time." I believe that people who think they hear a difference are simply acclimating to the new gear, and misinterpreting it as the equipment changing.
Actually speakers do have a break-in time, because the spider and suspension gets a little softer after certain hours of playback time. This can also apply.to turntable cartridges because of the rubber suspension. Having said that, an amplifier or DAC wouldn't have any break-in period, unless the Amp uses tubes, but I don't think that'd really matter much. Definitely getting used to the sound of the new equipment plays a high role there
@@thisisnev They have, indeed. As many "audiophiles" denigrante double-blind tests because the risk of being proven wrong in their FAITH is frightening.
Double Blind testing has been proven flawed by numerous studies. Plus we all know A B spot testing is inconstant, take music for example how many times first listen is negative 4th listen and you hear it.
Wait, "little 'dots' that you put on the wall"? "Little resonant cups that you place around the room"? 😂 Oh my, it looks like I need to pick up a Hi-Fi magazine again and flip through it for a good laugh! 😂 😂 Reminds me of some Lunatic Fringe stuff I read in Stereophile back in the 1990's. One fella swore on his mother's grave that placing TWO sheets of toilet paper between his speaker and speaker stand sounded much, much better than ONE sheet of toilet paper! 😂 Another couple of guys swore up and down that placing cans of beans on their speakers made a difference (which, depending on circumstance, could be valid as a simple weight), but what's more: Different kinds of beans made more or less difference in sound quality! I'm not one to rage about Snake Oil being the downfall of civilization. I have in fact been known to try some unorthodox things myself. For me, a little informed experimentation & tinkering is fun, and sometimes produces great results. However, these types of fringe activities I look on mostly as entertainment.
I recall in the early '80's the notion that different turntables with identical wow and flutter measurements could sound different, was snake oil, in some circles. Which doesn't mean there is no snake oil! Generally speaking though, the oil that makes the greatest improvement in listening pleasure is hash oil.
I Can end this debate once and for all.. BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE AND CAN AFFORD. If you believe saging your room before you play some records helps improve the sound, go ahead. Why should I care?
That’s not the problem. Nobody will discourage you from buying stuff. It’s the constant hype that’s overwhelming. Every week the Audiophiliac reviews something that trumps everything that came before it. It’s maddening.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q The never-ending quest for the perfect system is ... well... never ending. If I were Satan, all audiophiles who find themselves in Hell would be given the perfect system of their dreams and struck with deafness for all eternity.
@@richardgray8593 No, that's not as bad as an eternity of self-imposed torture. You really wanna torture an audiophile? OK. Give them the perfect system of their dreams and wait for them to tire of it. Never let them upgrade or change a single component. You'll have ruined their life-long hobby..
The problem is that reading the voodoo audio cultists' views influences noobs to waste money. Many people have an inherent need to help others. Whether it's telling them where to get the best coupons or what liquor store has the best price on Budweiser, they don't like seeing people hurt by wasting their money. Therefore they push back against the voodoo.
The guys who pointed out that different is not necessarily better nailed it. Snake oil - indeed, the whole modern hi-fi industry - is predicated on the strongly-held (and, ultimately, narcissistic) belief that more money automatically equals better. Anyone ever wondered why no reviewer ever puts modern audio equipment up against vintage gear from circa 1980? Simple: because it would bust open the modern 'audiophile' industry for the myth factory that it is. Don't believe me? Go out and buy a well cared-for vintage Japanese amp for $100 or less. Avoid collector fodder like Pioneer and Marantz - they're overpriced. Don't bother changing out all the capacitors (a peculiarly American snake oil myth), just wire it into your system, listen and ask yourself honestly: although it may or may not sound different, does it actually sound worse? Haters, form an orderly queue. If you've taken the challenge, then I will listen respectfully.
Burn-in actually made a notable difference on my Klipsch RP 600M. Out of the box they weren’t impressive at all. Then they sounded better after 2 months of use.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q That can be easily tested by buying a pair of new 600m and blind testing them against a pair of "broken in" ones. Is there any youtube video out there of someone doing this?
Not Snake Oil: DACs are definitely not snake oil in my experience moving from a Dacmagic 100 to a Chord Mojo to a Chord Hugo. Each new purchase made a vast difference almost as much as an upgrade in speakers themselves. I used to think this was snake oil and this changed the way I looked at my Hifi, that realisation as I used to think that it was just all about the speakers alone. Another point what gives the best outcome for the price. Don’t look past room acoustics. In an untreated room I have gone and spent $300 on materials to build panels that both absorb and diffuse. To get a similar improvement to my listening experience by purchasing high end components alone would have costed thousands upon thousands of dollars. I don’t think it would ever have reached the current level at all in fact as the untreated environment taints the sound too much. I am now looking at something like an Isotek board to see if cleaning up the power supply has some effect. Would like some commentary if anyone has feedback on these? And is it worth the $1000 or so price tag for an entry level unit?
I’ve had Chord dacs in the past, the last was the qbd76, you should bare in mind the high output voltage that Chord employ. Try a level-matched blind a/b if you want to hear (or not!) the true difference, although this is problematic because it’s possible that the Chord dacs could be overloading the amp’s input. Chord deliberately using such a high output leaves a bad taste in my mouth. To your question regarding mains treatment, might get rid of clicks and pops if you have shoddy equipment but really shouldn’t make any difference. The power supply in your kit will ‘clean’ the mains supply when it charges the capacitors.
There are many things that can help a system that can be explained and should not be expensive but audio marketers sell them at outrageous prices so they become snake oil. Cable risers that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars can be replaced by scrap pieces of wood. Mysterious rocks that sit on top of speakers and other equipment can be replaced by scrap pieces of heavy steel. Most of the time these snake oil items may change the sound but does not make it better.
"You like roses and kisses and pretty men to tell you All those pretty lies, pretty lies When you gonna realize they're only pretty lies Only pretty lies, just pretty lies" Joni Mitchell.
I would love to hear the difference between a $360k turntable, a $450k turntable, and a $10k turntable. Or let's say you compare a million dollar setup, to a $500k setup, a $60k setup, and a $20k setup. I simply can't wrap my head around how a turntable or speakers, no matter the construction, is worth a house. It's hard to fathom a piece of equipment providing that much of a sound difference to warrant such a price tag. I think the ultra absurd high-end, or any gear past the $10k mark should be suspected of being snake oil, even by the fortunate ones who can afford the outrageous gear. Sidenote: I'm definitely going to Carnegie Hall this year!!
you cannot and I repeat…CANNOT get *better* sound quality past what the physical recording is spitting out. So largely many systems will be bottlenecked by the source(aka the recording and mastering). hence why “a piano never sounds like a real life piano”. because it’s impossible to get ALL of that sonic information on the recording itself. Audiophiles are spinning their wheels on useless crap or worse, coloring their sound either intentionally or unintentionally due to their ignorance of specs/sound engineering, or trying to achieve that “perfect sound” which largely just simple does not exist. They will subconsciously color the sound to try and reproduce a particular instrument to find out that other instruments or genres sound like crap because of it… this hobby is a total dead end. It’s fun to think about. But don’t waste your time and money. Pick up an instrument. train your ear. learn actual music. Stop obsessing over antiquated and sometimes flat out inferior gear.
That’s can be called “mass loading”, and it can affect the sound. However, it also may change the sound diffraction pattern off the cabinet. Try draping a thick towel over the speaker , not covering the front of course, and cover the front edges of the baffle near the tweeter. It’s not mass loading because it’s a light towel, but in some instances, the sound will change.
No the watermelon has special healing properties, and is healing the speaker, which reduces vibration. If you use something else, and it has the same effect, it's only because that object also has magic healing properties. You guys need watermelons?
@@FatterTony I haven't personally heard cables making significant difference. I have the suspicion that there is impedance differences when it comes to speaker wire.
Expensive power cables and interconnects together with significant quality in amp and preamps have made my kef 104.2 speakers sound very comparable to new equipment. Sure the highs would be better with new tweeters but I love the sound from the 1990s and upgrades to this level of quality in the cables made a significant difference.
I read a goofy article in Stereophile a few years ago that recommended putting little boxes of BBs on top of the equipment. Makes as much difference as having a yellow sign in the room.
Any body remember the ''Magic clock'' from the mid 80's? Some one claimed a Radio Shack LED clock that sold for a few bucks when plugged in to the same circuit as your audio system would improve the sound. Shortly thereafter a ''special'' modded clock was introduced for 10 times the original price. LOL
The only way to compare is with double blind testing. Im wondering if a double blind experiment will have people tell differences between 100$ and 500$ DAC. You'd be surprised at the power of placebo and suggestiveness of price. As a physician, if I tell a patient a pill will work confidently, it WILL work. Why do you think medical research spends billions on designing experiments with strict placebo variables. If you read up on the power of placebo you'll be shocked
Audio equipment does burn in, I'm more concerned about all the guys who would have trouble hearing someone calling their name that state they can hear a difference in a power cable. Guess what, power cables connect to your power outlet. And what powers the outlet? Basically straightened coat hangers in your fucking wall.
I have a buddy who had me install an "audiophile grade" wall receptacle... I tried, and tried, but I just could not talk him out of it... it was truly unremarkable in its construction. Maybe a little sturdier than your typical cheap builders grade stuff, but no better at delivering 120 volts to a stereo.
Yeah, it's not like the freaking receptacle is carrying the audio signal lol 😆 also, those saying the power cord makes a difference in sound, really? They must have had a really crappy original AC cord with false contacts lol
Most people yearn for ways to separate themselves from the general masses, to say “Hey, I’m special - I’m not like you”. Marketers are fully aware of this. If I sell something that everyone can buy, it’s not special, but if I put a $30,000 price tag on it, now it’s special. Never mind if unbiased, non-compensated reviewers say there’s little to no difference in performance from the competently made alternative; the marketers will tell you otherwise, to trigger an emotional response. Remember Monster speaker cable and how it was sold for like, $5 a foot way back when, and everyone with their $200 speakers could tell the difference? Genius.
The human brain prone to bias. Test equipment and double blind testing removes the bias from the process of differentiating audio signals. If there is a difference, it can be measured. Once a difference is established, there is plenty of room for rational debate about how we feel about those differences. I would use the term "snake oil" to describe any product with undemonstrable efficacy.
You gave a perfect example of why there's so much animosity against high-end audio. Most people with no experience in audio may consider Monster a higher-end brand. But it’s essentially a marketing company. Most people have never heard of truly high-end cable brands like Audience, DH Labs, or High Fidelity Cables, let alone auditioned them in a high-end system. I’ve heard $30,000 systems that sucked and $30,000 systems that almost brought tears to my eyes so I’m not beholden to the idea that high price equals high quality.
My idea for the next brand of snake oil - How about the shape of your ears? Everybody's ears have different shapes, so there must be a "best ear" shape, right? Has anybody ever tried to make an artificial ear that you could wear over your real ears to get just the right sound? (As an experiment to see how much the physical shape of your ears matter, next time you're listening put one finger behind each ear and slightly push them forward and you will hear a huge difference.)
This is true! I had melanoma on my left ear and lost most of that ridge above the ear lobe. Seems to lower the volume by a db or two. I use Roon DSP to even things out.
I was thinking about those old fashioned "ear trumpets" and found this: 3.bp.blogspot.com/-NjsG3ZA_l1k/Vg4h2DnJluI/AAAAAAAACK8/ygdp6C3DEpY/s1600/ear%2Btrumpet2.JPG
Just cup your hands behind your ears and it makes a huge difference. You should have filed a patent on your ear idea. Watch AudioQuest come out with them.
I can remember being 17 in physics class and the teacher played a bunch of different frequencies with a tone generator. Eventually he got 24000 Hz or so and I still thought I could hear it. Everybody laughed at me. I really thought I heard something, but unless I'm part bat or dog that should not be possible.
I think it is all about what you are willing to spend to get the incremental improvements... The law of diminishing returns is ALIVE and WELL in high end audio...
I have some fuses that I have developed from the scrotal hair of great Amazonian sotted gecko, I will sell the set for $27,999, with a 2 month warranty. They need 4 months of play time to “burn in” though.
Most ppl can't hear any difference between cd quality and hi res. And when using tidal for example, i would say 50% of tidals hi res is bullshit. They are not hi res. Why? Becouse many of the hi res songs are recorded in the 40s-60s. They did not hsve that tec in those days. If its not recorded in hi res from the mic to the end, its not hi res. Just a big scam. Songs today are most likely to be hi res, becouse we have that tec today. Labeling hi res on a cd dosnt make it hi res.
@@dorkvader5332 yes. I dont get how many tidals can be hi res. Just a label i guess. But it is the same price for tidals cd and hi res quality so no actual scam from their side. Just alittle bit of lying;)
Whatever you can't discern in a blind test is snakeoil. Cables is tricky because usually and expensive cable is of better quality and has better connectors, so that is that, but if you cant hear any difference in a blind test, they do nothing with your sound, expensive or not. I believe that the room one listens in is the thing most people brush of or don't think about, has a much larger role to play in what your ears perceive, than most expensive upgrades. I also have my suspicions about speed of amplifiers, but I will leave that open because it might just be my own ignorance stopping me from really understanding how that works.
I have my turntable on a 30 plus pound slab of (man made) "granite". That makes an audible difference. I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe it's more accurate. Who knows?
Wait, I’m getting old and I’m Jewish, where was my invite? I work at a recording studio (with full analog and digital workflows). My prior job was managing a prepress dept. where I was evaluating color. Perception is a fascinating thing, I feel I have more of a trained eye and ear than most, but the studio owner who also does mixing and mastering hears things that I can hear, but have to be pointed out to me. I’ve had the biggest improvement through high end speaker cables and I’ve felt the silliest after purchasing pads and ceramic cones to stabilize a player. Is there a difference, perhaps but it’s not enough to justify the price and bothering with.
The largest tall tale that the snake oil salesman peddled was expensive speaker wire. An honest salesman put me onto lamp cable from a hardware store 40 years ago. 30 cents per foot. Nothing can make electric voltage sound better going through copper wire.
All of these assumptions could simply be recorded in the space and A/B analysed to know and finally settle for sure. Seems both the industry and the audiophile are more comfortable Not knowing - for this reason perhaps They are both the snake oil in the equation.
Moving speakers away from the wall is something I tried and it definitely works. It does lose bass but, not enough to worry about and the sound is much cleaner.
I have some tinnitus and still want better sounding equipment. I know it's silly on some level but I enjoy better sound and normally have no problem ignoring the ringing.
I liked the one guys response about tickets, I think chasing anything that doesn't exists in real live music is snake oil. Anything that seemingly cheats physics, especially tiny speakers and arbitrary room treatments. If your tiny inefficient bookshelf speakers or room can't approach the timbre and dynamics of live music, why chase phoney resolution, air, and hyped detail of a narrow spectrum of artifacts? If the approach doesn't see the forest for the trees, it's snake oil.
Concerts are hit and miss-- mostly miss today with the down grading of Sound Engineers and line arrays. But, the absolute best sound I have ever heard was live.
When I lived in Nashville I loved to go out and hear live music because the talent was first rate and so were the sound systems. Now in Denver, for the most part I prefer to remain home and listen to recorded music because good live sound simply doesn't exist here regardless of the musical talent. One notable exception is Rocky Grass Music festival in Lyons, Colorado. It's an outdoor amphitheater and the talent and sound system is always outstanding.
Went to an audio show in Toronto Canada. There was a $500K audio system on display and they were showing a comparison between Monster Audio Cables and Nordost Valhalla Cables. They could switch them instantaneously. I did hear a surprising difference. The audio with Monster Cables sounded great, like I would expect. But then the Nordost Cables came on and the system came alive with deeper tones and rich highs. Then a Nordost engineer came out to explain what was going on. The amplifier can only send frequencies it receives out to the speakers. When there is a normal bandwidth with Monster Cables that is what is amplified to the speakers. When the bandwidth is expanded the speakers receive a deeper and higher frequency. So the science works but at $300 Monster Cables vrs $8,000 Nordost Valhalla cables it is hard to justify the expense.
Danko is right!!! The best answer. The disconnect between price and effect of the high-end equipment. When audio starts to take on economics of luxury goods. Also, there was someone pointing out that it is futile to chase the real thing.
I was both surprised and not surprised at all by the glaring lack of blind testing in the audiophile world. If this industry wasn't so saturated with snake oil you'd think it would be a lot more common.
Nah! I’m very happy with my Yamaha RN 402 amp which has an integrated streamer. I basically got the amp for « free » with the purchase of my Klipsch RP 600M speakers. As streamers get cheaper, they won’t be considered snake oil anymore. Besides, setting up a Raspberry Pi for streaming is a pain.
I don’t stream much, but I can’t believe that music from Tidal, etc. can make its way through the whole freaking internet in apparently bit-perfect shape and then be improved by a 12 inch ethernet or USB cable made of whatever
The "watermelon man" had the most logical and common sense response. I guarantee he has a lot of first hand experience to back it up. Some of the others had nonsense responses.
The guy who said that nothing matched the real performance resonated the most with me. Especially since recordings are always heavily processed before they make it onto a song.
This subject did not come too early. Great video again. I love the interviews with those guys. I replaced my normal good plastic covered shielded cables (250 dollars), with some used Anti Cables I came across on the net. You know the solid copper ones with just some red laquer on. I don't own a super audio equipment. Just a ten year old McIntosh MA7000 and a pair of the new Klipsch Fortes 3 and a Yamaha CD S 1000. The difference was impressive. First: Better soundstage. Wow! Second: Slightly better, puchier and deeper bass-sound. Finally slightly clearer sound with subtle details I had't been hearing before. Now for 130 bucks second-hand for both interconnects and speaker cables, I would say that is a bargain. Didn't pay anybody's new Porsche around here. And they weren't even top level cables. Taking into account that I am 64 year old with reduced hearing, and being the weakest point in my soundsystem, I will recommend people to buy used Anti-Cables and try them out. It's system-dependant of course. There is not a quick fix here. It might not work for you. But it's your hobby, it's not religion! Bettye Lavette : Let me down easy. Live concert in London. I turned off the light and did a proper pitchdarklistening. She was on the floor in front of me... Keb Mo: You got to move. Oh yes ! The Fortes behaved like I've been waiting for. Forward leaning party speakers! Fun-factor all the way. But the records have to be good, as always...
For me, this all boils down to the law of diminishing returns. Just how far one goes depends upon how far one is ready to go while keeping this simple law in one's mind.
IMHO, the diminishing returns hit very early. Just think about it. Engineers process recordings so that they sound good on any equipment. Regardless of price and performance.
My favorite was the guy that stopped buying equipment and just buys tickets to live concerts now. That guy was great!
Audio equipment is a home-based substitution for concerts or programs you didn't get to go to, or performers you never got to hear life.
spend a million dollars in your living room to try to capture the real thing. never gonna happen. live music all day
Thanks Brian, music is what it's all about! Live music is IT!
I think Wayne is way off base.
No one into audio believes they are going to replace or reproduce a live concert experience. And the fact that audio is unable to do that, does not make it 'snake oil'. I am a member of the Los Angeles and Orange County Audio Society, the largest audiophile club in the world, and not a single member I have ever talked to believes they are reproducing a live experience.
All that audio does, is give us a window into the original event. The better the system is, the larger, cleaner, less distorting that window becomes.
Also worth pointing out: lots of music is not a band playing; it's electronically produced music that is played over giant speakers during a concert, and those speakers aren't hi-fi. Just purely in terms of the texture of the sound, a high-end system at home actually sounds better in that case. 'course that doesn't account for the feel of the crowd and the place, which just can't be reproduced.
One time I reversed my directional cables and interconnects and all my music started playing backwards and told me to worship satan.
As an old guy myself, I couldn't help notice that at best most of these audiophiles are long past hearing the top octave out of any system we hear, and so anything that claims to affect the subtle effects steming from the high frequencies is snake oil to us.
Michael Knoerzer I am 67 years old now and have good hearing but have some loss in the upper octave I am sure. Just a slight bit of treble boost is all that is needed for us. Tone controls are NOT snake oil and can help make up for deficiencies or differences in taste, recordings, speakers.
You can test your hearing online anytime. If you're over 60 and can hear above 10k hertz you are doing well.
Something tells me that's why so many speakers these days are tipped up past 10kHz these days.
Don’t worry, I’m 26 and hear only up to 14KHz, while I was able to hear up to 18KHz about 10 years ago.
@Fat Rat That joke is old.
Anything that does not stand up to rigorous blind testing is snake oil. Even gear that measures well is a type of snake oil if the improvements over lesser equipment is not discernible to the human ear.
Definitely not a form of snake oil. Better specs are obtained by building better equipment. Granted there is a point where most can't hear the difference. If you can't hear it save your money. But better gear is better gear. Snake oil is imagined orovements that can't be backed by science
@@donalddluckerii3147 ....including the science of human perception limits
You nailed it.
100%
Snake oil is a step above the diminishing returns found in all high end audio. Snake oil is when a product makes no logical sense, provides no measurable audio improvement but is still highly priced.
That's the best answer to date. You hit the nail on head!!!
@@fredcostas1945 I agree Fred. Well said Ian and spot on!
I agree too, and even if something is technically measurable can the human ear detect the difference?
Yes like absurdly priced pieces of wire for 18,000 and up, what can they do to a piece of wire to make it worth that much? nothing big rip off artists
Magic Pebbles.
"whatever I don't like or I can't afford is snake oil" - best answer, love this guy.
adding a heavy melon atop a speaker would change the sound for physical reasons, snake oil could apply if you claimed the sound was improved and you charged $1000 for the melon.
Hmph!
I find 50lbs of cast iron stops my subs from hopping around the room.
My relatives refuse to hold them down for more than a couple of minutes.... Hardly long enough to make it worth paying them;-/
( See thumbnail ;-)
@Fat Rat
6ft 200lb Honeydew!
Is that fat Mr🐀?
Adding a light melon would also change it. These "audiophiles" never heard of diffraction? Here's some more cables boys.
Of course it has to be the right kind of melon. Some of your cheaper Mexican or American grown water melons are simply not as sonically transparent or revealing as your higher end Japanese square water melons.
The whole concept of "Audiophile" is Snakeoil. It is a concept invented by Hifi Salesmen and high end Audio Equipment manufactuers to create a consumer class, for them to manipulate with praise and derision.
Very interesting
Very well said. That's why I picked my name that way, besides Audiophile 13.
Could not have put that better myself.
Disagree. An audiophile is a lover of audio. No different from bibliophile, cinephile, etc.
I hadn't thought of it that way before. I guess we have to go titleless?
I put melons on my speakers and cauliflower on my amp. Maybe that's why I'm feeling melancholy.
Nice lol.
Ba Zing!
John 😎
Lol! Peach of a comment
Dum,dum................tsh! But still funny all the same.
This was like the Seinfeld finale where all the characters from the show came back in one episode.
Some of the people did look like they were in that show, and I know Seinfeld is snake oil!
Les Wever, the comment went over your head.
@@_Chev_Chelios OK, but Seinfeld is still snake oil
A was an "audiophile" and spent thousends on gear untill I went to a recording studio with amps and speskers three times cheaper than mines and was blow away by the quality sound. Since that day I didn't spend one more dolar on gear and all the money went to room acoustics. That day I learned that a 10.000 system in a 10.000 room sounds way way better than a 50.000 system on an average living room.
The room honestly makes the biggest difference. Sound is complex in the way it interacts with walls and surfaces, and the better you optimize that the better your system sounds.
I can never understand why people don't buy studio equipment.
What surely isn't Snake Oil is friendship. I wish there were clubs like this in all the small towns in the USA. I bet it would beat most psychiatrists' couches in making ones life a nicer journey.
You guys are blessed!
P.S. Are AC power regenerators like the expensive PS Audio units Snake Oil?
Don't know about friendship, but I KNOW that anyone spending a fine fortune in a PS Audio (or whatever the brand) AC power regenerator needs one or maybe two pschyatrists.
Ventura Rodríguez Vallejo PS audio regenerator needs not be expensive but they help me a lot in my audio system. Flactuations in power were gone and drop in noise during playback get me more in my seat. Regenerators are good especially in those countries who experience power problems and needed them, but the price of it is I think the ¨snake oil¨at best.
@martytoo
Very well said, and thank you for saying it!
As for Power Regenerators: Clean power going to your system is vital. The cleaner you can make your power source, the cleaner the sound coming out the other end will be.
However, the ways in which you get that clean power will also make a difference.
I can't speak for PS Audio as a company, having never tried any of their products myself; but I can tell you to be cautious, do your research, and audition before making a final purchase if at all possible.
I think power regulation is really important to preserve your equipment and to help it sounds it's best. I'm sure PS Audio's power regenerators are great and I bet they aren't excessively overpriced for what they cost to make. However, I seriously doubt they make as much difference in sound as the same amount of money put into room treatment or source components or some nice furniture etc. I think we forget that listening to and using a stereo is far more than just sound quality. A good power regulation system gives audiophiles the knowledge that they are doing what they can to protect their investments and help eliminate sources of trouble, even if they probably won't be able to hear a difference. I also bet some equipment benefits from it far more than others.
Well, power regenerators both are and aren’t snakeoil.
Noisefree power actually makes a difference, but this can be achieved by using a simple RC filter and (in case of noisy ground) an isolation transformer.
No need to overcomplicate this by completely regenerate the power.
The issue I have with PSAudio is that you pay for ~90% branding and ~10% product.
Watch out when a review for audio equipment sounds like a wine tasting:
“Open, light and airy with a hint of raspberries.”
...and blackcurrants, with a strong yet gentle long finish
Yes, but music is feelings, so it's not strange that we need a special vocabulary to describe sound difference when the difference is there but it's hard to describe with normal words.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 But it's all useless if those words aren't clearly defined. Much of terminology they use is ambiguous at best, so it's not actually conveying any real information. Really, I can learn more about the sound of a piece of equipment by looking a frequency response chart for 2m then I could from listening to one of these guys talk about it for 30.
Ha! I got the same impression watching headphone reviews.
That’s when I started thinking it’s bullshit.
Double blind ABX is the gold standard. Anything short of that is subjective and highly susceptible to placebo.
So happy to see Joe again. He’s my favorite guest you have ever featured. I just love the guy- he’s no nonsense, and I think he has a good perspective on the hobby.
like him too
When people say that a particular piece of audio equipment, especially speakers and headphones, "break-in" what they fail to understand is that there is nothing about the materials that they are made from that actually changes. If something in them does change then it means that they are defective went out of spec in some way.
What is actually happening is that a person simply gets used to the perceived sound quality; EG: it is their brains that adjust to how their equipment sounds and not the other way around. All audio equipment has a unique sound signature and when a person hears a new piece of equipment for the first time, it may take a little while to become accustomed to it. The human bran is a highly imperfect thing, especially when it comes to memory. I'm not going to go into details about it here because it is easy enough to look up.
On a side note, I have have been using cheap 18 gauge speaker wire with clear insulation for many years to connect my receivers to the speakers being used and they sound perfectly fine to me, and I am a perfectionist when it comes to sound quality. I have compared Monster Cables to cheap cables and have heard no difference in sound quality and I have very sensitive ears.
I am amused every time I see speaker wire stands, as if raising a cable a few inches above a floor that has no RF signals below it actually does anything, other than making the person who bought them look foolish. 🤦♂️
Oh, with regards to this video, I stopped watching it after about a third of the way into it because most of the self proclaimed "audiophiles" (there is no set standard) would say something smart, but then mention things I know to be false as being true. One prime example is that analog audio sounds better than digital, as if imperfection is somehow superior. I do understand that a lot of people like hearing imperfections that vinyl adds to the recorded sound and that's fine, for them. I suppose that I can claim that I am a perfectionist, perhaps due to having OCD. I have digitized my vinyl collection and the WAV files sound exactly the same as the analog sources and I'm willing to bet that no one would be able to tell the difference between the vinyl record being played as the source and the digital copy of it. CDs have a resolution that vinyl just can't match, as many of you probably already know; not to mention the total lack of sibilant distortion that plagues many vinyl recordings, especially pop albums. Well, OK, perhaps a thousand dollar+ moving coil cartridge that I have never been able to afford might help or even eliminate such distortion, but why should I go through that when CDs sound exactly as the audio engineer intended the music to sound in the first place?
One reason why I like this video is because of how it shows that so-called "audiophiles" are just as imperfect as every other human being.
What is definitely not snake oil- but almost never gets mentioned- is a pair of high quality, well programmed hearing aids. They have been an essential complement to both my home stereo systems, and my live music listening, for about 10 years now. The technology of hearing aids keeps improving in dramatic ways. And once you've made that leap, hearing differences in equipment (or, for example, in hall acoustics where you listen to live music) becomes exciting; at that point the brain can be trained to help improve the acuity of musical perception. All that comes before any of these discussions about exotic electronic equipment!
Mac Moss : Great point. I was just thinking how much better I can see with my new glasses, but never gave a thought to hearing aids and listening. Thanks. What brand do you recommend?
Snake oil is imagining there is a difference but you can’t hear it in a blinded test...
"These guys payed for my porsches" by ceo of monster cable
I mean if you have a well tuned ear it makes sense changing component materials changes sound....
Same reason they love tube amps. Even slight changes could in theory be heard if your sensory threshold is ow enough.
I'm no audiophile and think accuracy is most important, and playing with random fittings and materials will not get you to a replicatable set up. But you might find something that sounds better to your ear even if it's not more accurate in any objective way.
I probably am in the bottom 5% of money put into my system on who watched this video. I do not buy this sort of stuff.....But if i had spent tens of thousands on my system yea i'd play with the cords if i thought they were acting as a psuedo equalizer.
@@ericmiller254 it would be useful if any subjective review of any audio produtc could be back up by standardized spectrum analysis, impedance curves, etc. Cables are the simplest component and funny enough are the ones that came with the less amount concrete data and instead they came with lots of claims founded by whishfull poetry. The headphone/dac crowd, which is a more recent audiophile branch, are much more demanding of concrete data. They produce 3d waterfall graphic representations of the fequency response for instance. The audiofools pay hundreds for 1 meter power cable and forget the all electrical installation inside the walls. Let alone if that has any effect on the retifier section on the power supply section of their amps. The retifiers only need to transform the ac grid power to a fixed dc voltage rail. If the cheap included power cable and the 500 dollar power cable produces the same values to the rails then....well, this would leed less porsche sales i suppose.
@@xedasxedas You make the assumption that the differences we hear will be reflected in the test equipment that currently exists.
There is still much that is unknown about why things sound the way they do to us.
@@VideoArchiveGuy You make the assumption that i don't know what kind of test equipement exists and how good it can be. Also, the responsability to provide proof for "ridiculous claims" rests on those who make them not in those who call it bs. Claiming you "hear the different" is not a proof by the way, specially when a +125 dB spectrum analizer cant mesure the difference between to speaker cables for instance. It's funny the the unknown part of the sciences behind these issues like psicho acoustics can be used against those who try to use it and those against those who denied it. Please bare in mind that this "magical" instrumentation knowledge put a analisar on the moon, enables terabytes/sec communications and nanotechnology. Stay safe .
@@xedasxedas Enjoy thinking a spectrum analyzer CAN measure every parameter of the listening experience.
Never underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance. I mean, if you spend a few hundred or even a few thousands bucks on something, it surely must be better right?
Since I can’t hear the tone this comment was written I’m gonna guess that you were sarcastic towards the end.
Cognitive dissonance is something that is very very serious, but it does not fit with your example entirely! To me it sounds more like a placebo effect whereas cognitive dissonance is more likely to occur when 3 people 1 newbie observing and 2 experienced people debate and defend their point of view. Or when watching creators on TH-cam or videos like these where the cognitive spectator feels pressured to make a decision as to who he believes.
@@itsfilipbitch5545 Cognitive Dissonance is simply said a conflict between heart and mind. "I spent 500 bucks on new cables but can't hear a difference, which makes me feel stupid, but my ego doesn't want to feel stupid so I create the illusion of hearing a difference" Ex post reasoning/buyer's remorse.
Your examples are what I'd categorize as Dissociative Group phenomena. "Experienced vs. inexperienced user, who'd you rather believe?"
The terms Cognitive Dissonance/Dissociative Group when used in marketing/consumer behavior are quite broadly defined, so lets better not start splitting hairs.
"I've got a room full of suckers" 😆
What I noticed is that most of these guy’s are around my age and none of them is wearing hearing aids. All of them have some hearing loss. What is NOT snake oil is that ALL of their systems will sound better with proper hearing aids. I was once in denial that I needed them as I’m sure they and you are. This may be your cheapest and best upgrade.
cheapest until you rewire them w/nordost
Notice a trend. The older you get and the bigger your bank account, snake oil all of a sudden isn't anymore.
Steve, can you please find out what kind of watermelon they used? I’m at the supermarket listening room right now!
Seedless. Seeds add distortion.
@@TheAgeOfAnalog Everyone already knows that. That's why they got rid of the seeds in the first place. Duh! 🙄
I feel we need a double blind test with various other melons before we can make a definitive statement here.
I use a honeydew melon, surprisingly cheaper but find the denser flesh has better sonic properties
I put grapefruit on mine. The sound is different. It's like apples to oranges, or should I say watermelon to grapefruit.
$19,000 interconnects ! Definitely prices like these have far exceeded a diminishing point of no return.
Great perspectives from all these people! The gentleman who buys tickets for performances (instead of audio) reminded me that's what our hobby seeks to replicate, so... I can't argue with him.
seeburg10 Any reproduction can never replicate the sound/feeling from a live performance for many reasons. Both have their place. But truly excellent sound does not need to be exorbitant in cost. Paying attention to the speakers, speaker setup and room acoustics are the main factors in great reproduced sound.
Depends on the style of music. If classical, it is very difficult to replicate the scale of the hall in a room. If pop music, a live concert is going to be loud and in mono. I much prefer pop music, so I find high end equipment sounding better than real life. Listening to pop music is like watching a movie. If you took away the post-production in a movie, the movie will look like a home video. ie. Rubbish.
All reproduced sound comes nowhere near to the real thing.
@@edthefirst2859 When it comes to pop music, which goes through the mixing and mastering process, where they apply compression and EQ to prevent instruments from walking over each other, it is hard to say exactly what the real thing is.
I saw a classical concert recently and it surprised me how different the recording was compared to the real thing. The real thing was definitely less clear without any stereo effect whatsoever. It felt like a wall of sound. But there was a physical presence which the recording lacked.
I liberally apply snake oil to all my cables before each listening session.
It doesn't change the sound of my system, but my hands are much softer!
Watermelons. Love it! And his point about everything making a DIFFERENCE but not necessarily making IMPROVEMENTS makes a lot of sense to me.
Recently I was thinking about all the factors in a room that people don't talk about - temperature, humidity, light...and wondering how those affect what you hear. And then I thought about a listener's own body and mood - are you tired or hungry or stressed, etc.
victorsixtythree
All things to take into account when making judgements!
IMHO, the two biggest factors are the actual recording of the track and the listener’s mood. Everything else is secondary.
Always USE BRAWNDO It's got ELECTROLYTES
We interrupt this program with breaking news. There has been a run on watermelons at all local grocery markets. Witnesses detail older men grabbing melons in twos and walking out the backwoods, ah, backdoors of these establishments. No one knows what has sparked such a buying frenzy of said watermelons, but one customer was followed home and it appears they are being placed upon what appears to be...speaker boxes???
Apparently large firm melons are best.
The principle is called damping. Watermelons have mass.
@@Rendon276 So much so that rumor has it Magico and Wilson offer them as options. $3K/melon, any color.
While stocks last?
Snake Oil: speaker cable lifters. Easy to test by raising your cables. Never heard any different whether on hard wood, carpet or cement. Expensive interconnects and speaker cables to "me" tend to be tone controls. Those little dots and wood things can't do anything for you except take your money. Super expensive audio gear too. Really, amps that cost as much as a home? Pre amp that cost as much as a car? Speakers will sound different, but worth the cost of a nice home? I admit that these are toys for the wealthy as are most exotic and expensive things.
I remember when I first got started in audio in the early 70's that the "high end" equipment, while expensive, was in reach of my blue collar salary. Not any more.
I stopped "upgrading" well over 20 years ago. The cost of getting something better just didn't make sense economically. And my current "old" system still sounds great.
I had a different experience from you. I heard a very high-end stereo with and without Shunyata Cable Elevators. The noise floor dropped significantly with the Elevators. Of course, close minded people who have never heard a truly high-end stereo with and without them will claim this is another example the placebo effect and demand a double-blind study.
I own a pair of Ultimate interconnects from High Fidelity Cables. Yes, they do make my stereo sound different AND better by dramatically lowering the noise floor and allowing more music to come through. I couldn’t hear any negative coloration and it certainly wasn’t a “hi-fi” type sound I heard. If you’ve never heard what they can do, please don’t leave any insulting remarks.
Same goes for expensive components. There are a lot of over-priced high status brands on the market that in reality don’t sound very good. But there are also some expensive components on the market that will bring tears to your eyes because they really allow the emotional nuances to come through. Three examples that I’ve heard are the Cary CAD-300SEI integrated amplifier, the Cary CAD-805RS mono block amplifiers, and the First Sound Paramount MKIII-S Super Special Edition Statement preamplifier.
Again, most people have never heard audio gear like this so it’s easy for them to make fun of high-end components. Most so-called high-end gear that people are familiar with is mediocre at best. A few weeks ago I was at Best Buy and while I was there, I listened to a pair of giant KEF Blade speakers powered by Classe mono block amplifiers. It must have been at least a $40K system. I was unimpressed, to say the least. So I’m not surprised that there a backlash against high-end audio.
@@LorenzoNW I'm not going to bash or insult. But, I have one question: Wouldn't the double-blind study be a sufficient and empirically sound means of testing the theory? Right. So, if they're so much better, where are the double-blind studies?
I’d be interested in using High Fidelity cables as well as Mosiac cables. I own FMS.
@@techrider2088 I never heard of FMS or Mosaic cables so I can’t comment on them. The Ultimate interconnects from High Fidelity Cables are just magical sounding. But I don’t recommend them for a system that isn’t truly high-end. And by “system”, I’m including components, cables, power conditioning, platforms, and room treatment. I also own one of HFC’s MC-0.5 power conditioners. It does a nice job of reducing noise, even with my existing power conditioner, although I should probably have four of them for the maximum benefit.
@@zizendorf The subject of double-blind tests for stereo systems, cables, components, tweaks, and power conditioners has been discussed and argued over ad infinitum for years, but I’ll assume your question is sincere so I’ll take the time to reply.
First of all, an argument can be made that the people involved in the test need trained ears. Let me explain. Most people who are new audio are immediately impressed by the “wow factor”, that hi-fi sound in which everything is exaggerated. You can hear a pin drop or the sound of a breath or the separation between each string. But what they aren’t listening for is musicality. What they’re hearing in such a system is coloration, which can be very enticing at first but gets really old and fatiguing after a while. What more experienced audiophiles will listen for is if something sounds musically and emotionally engaging, something akin to a real musical experience.
Another problem with double-blind tests for stereo systems is that there are so many things going on in a piece of music that it’s impossible to keep track and remember of everything - attack, decay, dynamics, micro-dynamics, soundstage, and at least a dozen other criteria. To get a good sense of what you’re hearing, you’ll probably want to listen for at least half hour. Our audio memory is very short so when you then interchange cables or components, it can be difficult to near impossible to recall exactly what you heard even a half hour ago.
A third problem is translating a double-blind test into something that’s useable for you. Let’s say a group of trained listeners do a test comparing an Audience frontRow power Chord against a stock power cord, using commensurate high-end components, speakers, cables, platforms, power conditioning, and room treatments. I guarantee you that every listener will prefer the Audience. But what I can’t guarantee is whether or not you’ll hear any improvement on your Denon or Yamaha receiver, disregarding the fact that it would be a ridiculous area to upgrade in such a system. But you get my point. There are so many variables in a system that it’s near impossible to generalize what one piece of gear will sound like in every system. In the case of the Shunyata Cable Elevators, he had previously used other cable lifters that didn’t make any difference. And this was on a very revealing $70K stereo system.
BUT INSTEAD OF INQUIRING ABOUT DOUBLE-BLIND TESTS, MY QUESTION IS THIS: Why not simply listen for yourself and decide with your own ears if you hear a significant improvement or not? I own a Cary CAD-300SEI with NOS tubes. On paper, the amp sucks and there are plenty of cheap solid-state amps that blow it out of the water with much better specs. So why did I buy it? Go listen to a good 300B SET amp and you’ll know for yourself. This isn’t rocket science. I bought a pair of Ultimate interconnects by High Fidelity Cables because of how it sounded in my system, not because of all the scientific gobbledygook surrounding how it works. It totally transformed my system for the better and I don’t need validation from a test to know what I’m hearing.
If you don’t trust your own ears and your own judgement, go with a friend to a stereo shop and ask the dealer to assist you in setting up a double-blind test if you think that will help you make an informed buying decision. I don’t know where you live but my favorite audio shop in the Northwest is The Audio Connection in Seattle. The owner is honest and very knowledgeable. He’ll ask about your listening room and your budget, then set something up for you to listen to without telling you what you should hear.
Perhaps there are those who have found a viable use for snake oil. If so, there are instances where even snake oil isn't snake oil. But a $2500 AC cord? No.
Its hard to tell. After reading many papers on human hearing and psychoacoustics. The way sound memory works and how the brain processes sound makes it nearly impossible to compare to audio components that perform similarly. This has ALWAYS been proven with double blind testing or even blind testing. Once you know what the gear is it can have an effect on your hearing. Sound is like any other sense in that its personal. I think of it like food, you can't possibly know what something tastes like for another person, our tounges are all a little different and then theres preferences on top of that. Just work towards making a cheeseburger YOU want to eat and can afford.
IowAudio Review Great response.
Go Hawks!
This is probably the best analogy I’ve heard. Hearing differences are like taste differences. Everyone has different preferences.
You know what really gets me? I think what sounds best DEPENDS on the last thing you've listened to. If you're doing A/B/etc. comparisons then your answer could probably change each time depending on in what order you listen to the systems/components. I think it's a little bit like food: you need to be able to "cleanse your palate" so to speak after each audition. Perhaps take some time for the memory of the last system to get out of your head.
@@vagabond197979 It's possible for the same music to sound slightly different each time we listen based on how human memory works. Thats why in blind tests when they don't change anything yet people claim they hear new or different things. We've all experienced this listing to our favorite song over and over on our system or headphones. Look into psudo and psycoacoutics the human brain is easily tricked and is constantly making adjustments to what we hear based on things like first order reflections. Maybe if your truly a trained listener or musician you may be better but most people aren't. Our ears also adjust for higher SPL after a few minutes thats why we keep turning it up. Because of this we lose some dynamic range in our hearing.
My experience with the various tweaks to my audiophile satisfaction is proportionally exclusive to the amount of ale and glorious edibles consumed. Cheers.
Snake oil: high Rez formats
Tweek that works: sandwiching my sub between a 20 lb slab of concrete on bottom and 20 lb bag of rice on top.
makes total sense. Just don't let the hi-fi shop sell you the concrete
@@ar_xiv
Or the rice, they'll call it something fancy and charge $600 a bag
@@ar_xiv lol! The concrete was not so bad but the audiophiles told me to say clear of Chinese rice...... Japanese rice sounds way better!
@@twhalen ya I agree. A well produced recording played back on a nice vinyl or cd system is still as good as it gets. I don't think it will get much better until there is a real breakthrough change in speaker design.....something that is a totally new way to interact with recorded music......until then LP and CD are as good as it gets..... audiophiles will fool themselves with confirmation bias but our ability to hear substantial improvements with high Rez recordings has proven to not pass the test when put through well implemented blindfold tests with the general public.
Pocari Suit
LMAO.... that’s a good one!
Rule #1 - form follow functions. Signal cables should be well insulated, speaker cables should be adequate to carry the current to the speakers. Same goes with power cables.
Rule #2 - diminishing return. Improvements are the most obvious when better cables replacing crappy cables (see rule #1). Once it goes to a certain performance level, any more expensive cables will/may only give you minimal improvements, if any, and you may not notice it.
Rule #3 - focus on the weakest links. Why spend $10,000 on a power cable when your wall sockets are connected to the service panel on $2 per feet #16 power wire? Are there any other appliances sharing the same power circuit? What about your neighbors? Are they running power tools? Same goes with signal cables. Inside the power amp, the wires coming out of the transistors are very thin. Probably 10 times thinner than your speaker cable. What can you do about it?
$2 a foot? Pennies a metre..
Something sound different doesn't mean it sounds better. You only think it does because of the price tag
People often think different sounds better because of the wow factor. More experienced audiophiles call this a hi-fi sound, where everything sounds exaggerated. That's why many manufacturers add coloration to their components and speakers. Coloration can be very appealing at first but it gets old after a while. And that's also why double-blind studies are flawed and why professional reviewers avoid them. Most people in double-blind studies have no idea what to listen for. And a real reviewer has to listen over time to various kinds of music to properly evaluate audio gear. You're also right about price. I've seen people in audio auditions who were blown away by expensive high-status name brands that sounded mediocre at best.
Yes different is not always better but people so often are just bored of what they have and are enticed by 'different'. This difference might sound good at first but it will most certainly get old too. It's hard to say for sure that something sounds better without testing side by side. Although even that can be flawed. Looking at price tags will most definitely bias people towards the more expensive option. But that's down to our irrational brains not cooperating with us. If you think you're not going to fall for your brains little tricks, you are mistaken and will definitely be fooled by some snake oil eventually. Taking your time to think about it rationally and being critical are your best tools to fight snake oil.
DaSkaterdude97 who is it hurting if someone wants to spend their money on a cable or accessory that sounds good to the buyer’s ears? What do you care what people choose to spend their money on to get a little pleasure in their life? What are you, the other people ‘s finance nazi?
@@edthefirst2859 I never said people shouldn't buy something that does sound good. You must not have read all of my comments on this video. I've actually stated if you enjoy it and can afford it all the more power to you.
The thing is, what sounds better at first might only sound better because it isn't what you hear on a daily basis. Our brains aren't as rational as most people think they are. So just take time to think about what you heard, if possible give it a couple of listens across a few days/weeks then decide whether it's worth it to you. I just don't want to see people regret their purchases. It's happened to me in the past and probably most people here.
It sucks to spend your hard earned money on something that you're not happy with later down the road. Especially if it's not cheap.
DaSkaterdude97 it’s still none of your concern what people choose to spend their money on. Are you also chastising people who spend extra for “craft” beers, when everyone knows they all taste the same?
Buying gear based on the
"School of popular opinion"
Self imposed snake oil .
Curse the Klipsch RP 600M! I bought a pair based on the hype. And they’re good. Just not as amazing as the hype.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q "Amazing" is relative. You might get away with calling them amazing for what they cost but you're not going to find speakers that sound truly emotionally and musically engaging for the price of a pair of RP 600M speakers. And to get truly amazing sound, you'll also need commensurate components, power conditioning, cables, tweaks, and room treatment. Amazing sound doesn't come cheap.
@@LorenzoNW I couldn't agree more, the room matters so much. As a student I've moved around a bit from rental property to rental property. Man, could I ever hear the difference between different rooms and different speakers positions.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Back in the early 1980's (no internet) after I got married my wife and I went to an audio store to get a pair of speakers to complete our stereo system for our new house. We listened to ( maybe 6 ) pairs of speakers and amazingly we both pointed to the same pair we thought were the best sounding. They were not the most expensive, I think they were second most expensive. I guess the point I am making is that you have to listen at good "audio" stores which is getting harder to do these days locally.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Back in the early 1980's ( before the internet ) after I got married my wife and I went to an audio store to get a pair of speakers for our stereo system for our new house. We listened to ( I think 6 ) pairs of speakers and amazingly we both pointed to the same pair that sounded the best to us. They were not the most expensive, I think they were the second most expensive. The point I am making is that you have to go to a good "audio" store and listen which is getting harder to do locally.
I am a very inexperience audio enthusiast as I haven't had the chance to listen to a lot of equipment. However, I am an electronics engineer as well. I want to have an open mind when approaching this hobby so that I can have surprising experiences and discover new mysteries. With that said, armed with years of study of electronics make believing some claims impossible:
- digital cables/filters/reclockers: bits are bits. There may be some corner cases where cables could make a difference for very poorly designed digital interfaces, but I would rather buy a better designed product than fix one with expensive cables.
- analog/power cables and fuses: nothing magic going on with these; just a matter of conduction. Silver only has about 5-10% better conductivity than copper but costs 100x more. Clearly increasing the diameter of the conductor is a much more reasonable solution.
- gold anything for improving sound: Gold plating is common for fighting corrosion on contacts and improving reliability, but it has worse conductivity than copper so it's not going to help improve sound quality.
- Burn in / long thermal equilibrium time for electrical components: I can believe burn in for acoustic components, but electronics operate within the manufacturer's stated specs from the first moment they're powered. I have never heard anywhere else in the electronics industry where burn in time is even considered, not even in very high precision devices. Along the same lines, I have heard claims that poorly performing equipment will sound different once it reaches thermal equilibrium after days of continuous on-time. Temperature equilibrium takes a matter of minutes to settle, not days. If a design is dependent on a few degrees of temperature, then that means that a sound system could vary with ambient temp like between a winter day or a summer day or even from afternoon to night. Who would want a sound system which performed like that?
Was that a Therapy session for audiophiles? :-)
12 step program
It certainly wasn't a dentists gathering
Pretty sure it was a flat earth convention
- expensive power cables
- spending thousands on equipment and expecting monumental improvements
- cheap d amplifiers making thousands of watts
- ignoring source quality and room treatment and speaker placement over gear
You have to get the right gear for your listening environment, and not your dream gear because that probably won't fit the room. Oversized speakers can sound worse in the same space than smaller ones. Been to a hi-fi shop in Exeter, UK, and had a chance to listen to some high end stuff. Big Tower speakers £4000+ a piece, and some crazy rig with 4-5 different black boxes with some supposedly awesome source... rig was about £15 000... the room was about 9'-12''x15' maybe I can't remember... and the experience was really weird... didn't feel right... the imaging was disjointed, the whole thing felt dull and lifeless, weak..
While at home, in a 14'x18' room, my matched Pioneer Whiskey Barrel speakers raised to ear level through a £200 amp through a ASUS Xonar STX2 sound card just filled the room, had body, when I was listening to singers I was able to picture them in front of me... and I didn't have to listen to it loudly to get this result...
So the right gear over the best possible gear for your wallet.
Agree with most of this except the cable bit... A cable (interconnect, speaker, or power) acts as a filter because depending on length, geometry, etc it will have difference resistance, capacitance, and inductance. I was particularly surprised to hear (slight but present) differences with power cables. So I think it is really hard to be strict about whether they do or don’t make a difference. However, if anything, the most difference comes from speaker placement and room treatment, for sure.
@@miguelbarrio I applaud you for regularly being a voice of reason in the wildly misinformed world of TH-cam comments
What expensive power cables have you actually auditioned and in what audio system? Most people who make claims similar yours have no real experience and are just regurgitating what they've heard from others.
@@LorenzoNW This is my system: goo.gl/66fjxw and the power cables I have auditioned are from Audio Note (~$4k, which is what I currently use in my amp), Audience, Shunyata, and a few others whose brands I don't recall. And frankly, don't be so ignorant to assume people have not listened to these...
Whenever you say "Dig it" I think of the film The Warriors "Can you dig it!?" lol
I'm with Wayne. EVERYONE needs a reality check now and then.
Fuse direction ?? Fuse burn in ? Audible differences in ethernet cable ? 😂🤣😆😂🤣😆
It's like saying a movie looks better over display port than HDMI.
@@tcv4 It does if it's 8K 60Hz. Then again how many sources are in 8K 60Hz if you don't own an RED or Arri camera :)
@@tcv4 well does a movie look better on DVD or VHS...?!
@@O.G.LIL-MAN If both come from identical source material then they will look identical. A DVD movie can look better than the VHS release because it has a larger capacity and therefore can hold more information. One Ethernet cable is identical to the same speed Ethernet cable as they are transferring a digital signal of 1's and 0's that either get transmitted and interpreted or do not. There is no mechanism for the content to be influenced in the way analog may be.
I know, weird huh?
I've never heard a single piece of audio equipment sound different after "burn in time." I believe that people who think they hear a difference are simply acclimating to the new gear, and misinterpreting it as the equipment changing.
Actually speakers do have a break-in time, because the spider and suspension gets a little softer after certain hours of playback time. This can also apply.to turntable cartridges because of the rubber suspension. Having said that, an amplifier or DAC wouldn't have any break-in period, unless the Amp uses tubes, but I don't think that'd really matter much. Definitely getting used to the sound of the new equipment plays a high role there
A double blind test can easily answer the "what is snake oil" question ;)
Yes, but just look at how such tests are always denigrated by everyone from journalists to dealers.
@@jozefserf2024 Perhaps they have something to be afraid of.
@@thisisnev They have, indeed.
As many "audiophiles" denigrante double-blind tests because the risk of being proven wrong in their FAITH is frightening.
Double Blind testing has been proven flawed by numerous studies. Plus we all know A B spot testing is inconstant, take music for example how many times first listen is negative 4th listen and you hear it.
@@jamescox4823 So if double-blind testing is so flawed, what's a better scientific alternative?
Love your videos Steve ! I’m from Germany and new to this passion, and I have to say you give me lots of new input. Keep up the great work
I second Wayne's POV. Support live music.
Wait, "little 'dots' that you put on the wall"?
"Little resonant cups that you place around the room"? 😂
Oh my, it looks like I need to pick up a Hi-Fi magazine again and flip through it for a good laugh! 😂 😂
Reminds me of some Lunatic Fringe stuff I read in Stereophile back in the 1990's.
One fella swore on his mother's grave that placing TWO sheets of toilet paper between his speaker and speaker stand sounded much, much better than ONE sheet of toilet paper! 😂
Another couple of guys swore up and down that placing cans of beans on their speakers made a difference (which, depending on circumstance, could be valid as a simple weight), but what's more: Different kinds of beans made more or less difference in sound quality!
I'm not one to rage about Snake Oil being the downfall of civilization. I have in fact been known to try some unorthodox things myself.
For me, a little informed experimentation & tinkering is fun, and sometimes produces great results.
However, these types of fringe activities I look on mostly as entertainment.
I recall in the early '80's the notion that different turntables with identical wow and flutter measurements could sound different, was snake oil, in some circles. Which doesn't mean there is no snake oil! Generally speaking though, the oil that makes the greatest improvement in listening pleasure is hash oil.
As soon as the young guy said PS Audio, i knew he was a born KOOL-AID drinker.
I Can end this debate once and for all.. BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE AND CAN AFFORD.
If you believe saging your room before you play some records helps improve the sound, go ahead. Why should I care?
That’s not the problem. Nobody will discourage you from buying stuff. It’s the constant hype that’s overwhelming. Every week the Audiophiliac reviews something that trumps everything that came before it. It’s maddening.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q The never-ending quest for the perfect system is ... well... never ending. If I were Satan, all audiophiles who find themselves in Hell would be given the perfect system of their dreams and struck with deafness for all eternity.
@@richardgray8593 No, that's not as bad as an eternity of self-imposed torture. You really wanna torture an audiophile? OK. Give them the perfect system of their dreams and wait for them to tire of it. Never let them upgrade or change a single component. You'll have ruined their life-long hobby..
@@mattbonaccio3522 Well said. I think you understand the audiophile subculture better than I do.
The problem is that reading the voodoo audio cultists' views influences noobs to waste money. Many people have an inherent need to help others. Whether it's telling them where to get the best coupons or what liquor store has the best price on Budweiser, they don't like seeing people hurt by wasting their money. Therefore they push back against the voodoo.
The guys who pointed out that different is not necessarily better nailed it. Snake oil - indeed, the whole modern hi-fi industry - is predicated on the strongly-held (and, ultimately, narcissistic) belief that more money automatically equals better.
Anyone ever wondered why no reviewer ever puts modern audio equipment up against vintage gear from circa 1980? Simple: because it would bust open the modern 'audiophile' industry for the myth factory that it is.
Don't believe me? Go out and buy a well cared-for vintage Japanese amp for $100 or less. Avoid collector fodder like Pioneer and Marantz - they're overpriced. Don't bother changing out all the capacitors (a peculiarly American snake oil myth), just wire it into your system, listen and ask yourself honestly: although it may or may not sound different, does it actually sound worse?
Haters, form an orderly queue. If you've taken the challenge, then I will listen respectfully.
So true!🤗😉😇🤫
Burn-in, super high-res audio, hi-fi transport, thousands of dollars DACs, super expensive speaker cables.
Burn-in actually made a notable difference on my Klipsch RP 600M. Out of the box they weren’t impressive at all. Then they sounded better after 2 months of use.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q your brain just adapted )
Sergey Veselik Maybe there’s some of that too.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q That can be easily tested by buying a pair of new 600m and blind testing them against a pair of "broken in" ones.
Is there any youtube video out there of someone doing this?
My favorite snake oil gadget was supposed to make CDs sound better by spinning them over a magnet before you play them.
nice
Not Snake Oil: DACs are definitely not snake oil in my experience moving from a Dacmagic 100 to a Chord Mojo to a Chord Hugo. Each new purchase made a vast difference almost as much as an upgrade in speakers themselves. I used to think this was snake oil and this changed the way I looked at my Hifi, that realisation as I used to think that it was just all about the speakers alone.
Another point what gives the best outcome for the price. Don’t look past room acoustics. In an untreated room I have gone and spent $300 on materials to build panels that both absorb and diffuse. To get a similar improvement to my listening experience by purchasing high end components alone would have costed thousands upon thousands of dollars. I don’t think it would ever have reached the current level at all in fact as the untreated environment taints the sound too much.
I am now looking at something like an Isotek board to see if cleaning up the power supply has some effect. Would like some commentary if anyone has feedback on these? And is it worth the $1000 or so price tag for an entry level unit?
I’ve had Chord dacs in the past, the last was the qbd76, you should bare in mind the high output voltage that Chord employ. Try a level-matched blind a/b if you want to hear (or not!) the true difference, although this is problematic because it’s possible that the Chord dacs could be overloading the amp’s input. Chord deliberately using such a high output leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
To your question regarding mains treatment, might get rid of clicks and pops if you have shoddy equipment but really shouldn’t make any difference. The power supply in your kit will ‘clean’ the mains supply when it charges the capacitors.
thats a crowd I dont want to be in ... seriously guys. Self awareness and the mirror can help.
There are many things that can help a system that can be explained and should not be expensive but audio marketers sell them at outrageous prices so they become snake oil. Cable risers that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars can be replaced by scrap pieces of wood. Mysterious rocks that sit on top of speakers and other equipment can be replaced by scrap pieces of heavy steel. Most of the time these snake oil items may change the sound but does not make it better.
Nice to hear from all these old well experienced dudes . Thanks mates
"You like roses and kisses and pretty men to tell you
All those pretty lies, pretty lies
When you gonna realize they're only pretty lies
Only pretty lies, just pretty lies" Joni Mitchell.
I would love to hear the difference between a $360k turntable, a $450k turntable, and a $10k turntable.
Or let's say you compare a million dollar setup, to a $500k setup, a $60k setup, and a $20k setup.
I simply can't wrap my head around how a turntable or speakers, no matter the construction, is worth a house. It's hard to fathom a piece of equipment providing that much of a sound difference to warrant such a price tag.
I think the ultra absurd high-end, or any gear past the $10k mark should be suspected of being snake oil, even by the fortunate ones who can afford the outrageous gear.
Sidenote: I'm definitely going to Carnegie Hall this year!!
you cannot and I repeat…CANNOT get *better* sound quality past what the physical recording is spitting out. So largely many systems will be bottlenecked by the source(aka the recording and mastering).
hence why “a piano never sounds like a real life piano”. because it’s impossible to get ALL of that sonic information on the recording itself. Audiophiles are spinning their wheels on useless crap or worse, coloring their sound either intentionally or unintentionally due to their ignorance of specs/sound engineering, or trying to achieve that “perfect sound” which largely just simple does not exist.
They will subconsciously color the sound to try and reproduce a particular instrument to find out that other instruments or genres sound like crap because of it…
this hobby is a total dead end. It’s fun to think about. But don’t waste your time and money. Pick up an instrument. train your ear. learn actual music. Stop obsessing over antiquated and sometimes flat out inferior gear.
The melons are just adding weight to the speakers, and weight can of course help damp vibrations and resonance. The fruitiness is irrelevant.
That’s can be called “mass loading”, and it can affect the sound.
However, it also may change the sound diffraction pattern off the cabinet. Try draping a thick towel over the speaker , not covering the front of course, and cover the front edges of the baffle near the tweeter. It’s not mass loading because it’s a light towel, but in some instances, the sound will change.
No the watermelon has special healing properties, and is healing the speaker, which reduces vibration.
If you use something else, and it has the same effect, it's only because that object also has magic healing properties.
You guys need watermelons?
@@ChadDidNothingWrong No.
@osliverpool
I SAY OLD CHAP!
What were you saying now....?
@@harrybaque5502 lmfao agreed
Spending money on tickets instead of gear. FANTASTIC advice.
I think some people may confuse the law of diminishing returns for snake oil.
So true!
But some of the cable nonsense is just outright false. That then IS snake oil.
@@FatterTony I haven't personally heard cables making significant difference.
I have the suspicion that there is impedance differences when it comes to speaker wire.
@Fat Rat You're over here too.
you need to go back under your bridge saw bum hanging around there he's going to take your spot. 🤭
Snake Oil is subjective.
The reason Snake Oil is so prevalent in our hobby is because people are evaluating it objectively.
Expensive power cables and interconnects together with significant quality in amp and preamps have made my kef 104.2 speakers sound very comparable to new equipment. Sure the highs would be better with new tweeters but I love the sound from the 1990s and upgrades to this level of quality in the cables made a significant difference.
That’s right! Great to hear. Try a large isolation transformer.
I read a goofy article in Stereophile a few years ago that recommended putting little boxes of BBs on top of the equipment.
Makes as much difference as having a yellow sign in the room.
try green magic marker on a yellow sign before you knock it
Any body remember the ''Magic clock'' from the mid 80's? Some one claimed a Radio Shack LED clock that sold for a few bucks when plugged in to the same circuit as your audio system would improve the sound. Shortly thereafter a ''special'' modded clock was introduced for 10 times the original price. LOL
Yep there is a PS Audio little LED plug-in thing that supposedly does the same thing. Never tried it though. Seems like snake oil but who knows ?
@@mvallely79 Tice, is the correct spelling. George Tice.
The only way to compare is with double blind testing. Im wondering if a double blind experiment will have people tell differences between 100$ and 500$ DAC. You'd be surprised at the power of placebo and suggestiveness of price. As a physician, if I tell a patient a pill will work confidently, it WILL work. Why do you think medical research spends billions on designing experiments with strict placebo variables. If you read up on the power of placebo you'll be shocked
'Directional fuses' - 'burn in' jesus christ...
Audio equipment does burn in, I'm more concerned about all the guys who would have trouble hearing someone calling their name that state they can hear a difference in a power cable. Guess what, power cables connect to your power outlet. And what powers the outlet? Basically straightened coat hangers in your fucking wall.
@@tinydiccbandito4953 At least they are copper coat hangers...
@@jamezors667 No More Wire Hangers!
I have a buddy who had me install an "audiophile grade" wall receptacle... I tried, and tried, but I just could not talk him out of it... it was truly unremarkable in its construction. Maybe a little sturdier than your typical cheap builders grade stuff, but no better at delivering 120 volts to a stereo.
Yeah, it's not like the freaking
receptacle is carrying the audio signal lol 😆 also, those saying the power cord makes a difference in sound, really? They must have had a really crappy original AC cord with false contacts lol
Most people yearn for ways to separate themselves from the general masses, to say “Hey, I’m special - I’m not like you”. Marketers are fully aware of this. If I sell something that everyone can buy, it’s not special, but if I put a $30,000 price tag on it, now it’s special. Never mind if unbiased, non-compensated reviewers say there’s little to no difference in performance from the competently made alternative; the marketers will tell you otherwise, to trigger an emotional response. Remember Monster speaker cable and how it was sold for like, $5 a foot way back when, and everyone with their $200 speakers could tell the difference? Genius.
The human brain prone to bias. Test equipment and double blind testing removes the bias from the process of differentiating audio signals. If there is a difference, it can be measured. Once a difference is established, there is plenty of room for rational debate about how we feel about those differences. I would use the term "snake oil" to describe any product with undemonstrable efficacy.
You gave a perfect example of why there's so much animosity against high-end audio. Most people with no experience in audio may consider Monster a higher-end brand. But it’s essentially a marketing company. Most people have never heard of truly high-end cable brands like Audience, DH Labs, or High Fidelity Cables, let alone auditioned them in a high-end system. I’ve heard $30,000 systems that sucked and $30,000 systems that almost brought tears to my eyes so I’m not beholden to the idea that high price equals high quality.
Power filter and ac cable upgrades def made the quiet quieter
My idea for the next brand of snake oil - How about the shape of your ears? Everybody's ears have different shapes, so there must be a "best ear" shape, right? Has anybody ever tried to make an artificial ear that you could wear over your real ears to get just the right sound? (As an experiment to see how much the physical shape of your ears matter, next time you're listening put one finger behind each ear and slightly push them forward and you will hear a huge difference.)
There is something for this problem about the ear shape. If i find it i will send it here
This is true! I had melanoma on my left ear and lost most of that ridge above the ear lobe. Seems to lower the volume by a db or two. I use Roon DSP to even things out.
I was thinking about those old fashioned "ear trumpets" and found this: 3.bp.blogspot.com/-NjsG3ZA_l1k/Vg4h2DnJluI/AAAAAAAACK8/ygdp6C3DEpY/s1600/ear%2Btrumpet2.JPG
Just cup your hands behind your ears and it makes a huge difference. You should have filed a patent on your ear idea. Watch AudioQuest come out with them.
I can remember being 17 in physics class and the teacher played a bunch of different frequencies with a tone generator. Eventually he got 24000 Hz or so and I still thought I could hear it. Everybody laughed at me. I really thought I heard something, but unless I'm part bat or dog that should not be possible.
What does your DNA test reveal? Cat or Bat? Border Collie?
I think it is all about what you are willing to spend to get the incremental improvements... The law of diminishing returns is ALIVE and WELL in high end audio...
bingo
I have some fuses that I have developed from the scrotal hair of great Amazonian sotted gecko, I will sell the set for $27,999, with a 2 month warranty. They need 4 months of play time to “burn in” though.
Hi definition recordings. I cannot hear the difference between CD and high definition recordings and I have a relatively resolving system.
I hear the difference easily on my system.
Most ppl can't hear any difference between cd quality and hi res. And when using tidal for example, i would say 50% of tidals hi res is bullshit. They are not hi res. Why? Becouse many of the hi res songs are recorded in the 40s-60s. They did not hsve that tec in those days. If its not recorded in hi res from the mic to the end, its not hi res. Just a big scam. Songs today are most likely to be hi res, becouse we have that tec today. Labeling hi res on a cd dosnt make it hi res.
Are we acctually able to hear
hi Res audio in its entirety, presuming our speakers had the range in the first place.
@@chriss881000 I agree. proper Hi Res is 24/96 recorded, mixed and mastered.
@@dorkvader5332 yes. I dont get how many tidals can be hi res. Just a label i guess. But it is the same price for tidals cd and hi res quality so no actual scam from their side. Just alittle bit of lying;)
Whatever you can't discern in a blind test is snakeoil. Cables is tricky because usually and expensive cable is of better quality and has better connectors, so that is that, but if you cant hear any difference in a blind test, they do nothing with your sound, expensive or not. I believe that the room one listens in is the thing most people brush of or don't think about, has a much larger role to play in what your ears perceive, than most expensive upgrades. I also have my suspicions about speed of amplifiers, but I will leave that open because it might just be my own ignorance stopping me from really understanding how that works.
I have my turntable on a 30 plus pound slab of (man made) "granite". That makes an audible difference. I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe it's more accurate. Who knows?
This was like a Steve Gutenberg Past-Guests-Audiophile-Extravaganza. Love that Joe
Wait, I’m getting old and I’m Jewish, where was my invite?
I work at a recording studio (with full analog and digital workflows). My prior job was managing a prepress dept. where I was evaluating color. Perception is a fascinating thing, I feel I have more of a trained eye and ear than most, but the studio owner who also does mixing and mastering hears things that I can hear, but have to be pointed out to me.
I’ve had the biggest improvement through high end speaker cables and I’ve felt the silliest after purchasing pads and ceramic cones to stabilize a player. Is there a difference, perhaps but it’s not enough to justify the price and bothering with.
The largest tall tale that the snake oil salesman peddled was expensive speaker wire. An honest salesman put me onto lamp cable from a hardware store 40 years ago. 30 cents per foot. Nothing can make electric voltage sound better going through copper wire.
All of these assumptions could simply be recorded in the space and A/B analysed to know and finally settle for sure. Seems both the industry and the audiophile are more comfortable Not knowing - for this reason perhaps They are both the snake oil in the equation.
Moving speakers away from the wall is something I tried and it definitely works. It does lose bass but, not enough to worry about and the sound is much cleaner.
Hey, Mr. Steve, is there any interested in TOPPING D90 DAC for review? we're waiting for your reply. Thanks in advance.
We love you Joe. The voice of common sense.
I'm 61 and I have tinnitus, so pretty much everything above 9kHz is snake oil to me. Ha!
I think 90% of the guys in this video would be the same
I have some tinnitus and still want better sounding equipment. I know it's silly on some level but I enjoy better sound and normally have no problem ignoring the ringing.
Nice one
Crazy prayingmantis
I agree but will up that percentage to 100%.
Mine drops off at about 10khz.😞 Higher frequencies are nonexistent to me. But I still like Jack Daniels and a good cigar from time to time. 😉👍
I liked the one guys response about tickets, I think chasing anything that doesn't exists in real live music is snake oil. Anything that seemingly cheats physics, especially tiny speakers and arbitrary room treatments. If your tiny inefficient bookshelf speakers or room can't approach the timbre and dynamics of live music, why chase phoney resolution, air, and hyped detail of a narrow spectrum of artifacts? If the approach doesn't see the forest for the trees, it's snake oil.
They seemed like really cool guys.
I prefer recorded music to live. Concerts are well worth attending but I am not in love with the sound.
Concerts are hit and miss-- mostly miss today with the down grading of Sound Engineers and line arrays. But, the absolute best sound I have ever heard was live.
When I lived in Nashville I loved to go out and hear live music because the talent was first rate and so were the sound systems. Now in Denver, for the most part I prefer to remain home and listen to recorded music because good live sound simply doesn't exist here regardless of the musical talent. One notable exception is Rocky Grass Music festival in Lyons, Colorado. It's an outdoor amphitheater and the talent and sound system is always outstanding.
Went to an audio show in Toronto Canada. There was a $500K audio system on display and they were showing a comparison between Monster Audio Cables and Nordost Valhalla Cables. They could switch them instantaneously. I did hear a surprising difference. The audio with Monster Cables sounded great, like I would expect. But then the Nordost Cables came on and the system came alive with deeper tones and rich highs. Then a Nordost engineer came out to explain what was going on. The amplifier can only send frequencies it receives out to the speakers. When there is a normal bandwidth with Monster Cables that is what is amplified to the speakers. When the bandwidth is expanded the speakers receive a deeper and higher frequency. So the science works but at $300 Monster Cables vrs $8,000 Nordost Valhalla cables it is hard to justify the expense.
Bogus. The monster cables are already overpriced. Regular cables are capable of conducting signal frequencies WAY outside of the audio range.
Reminds me of one of those big foot or ufo documentaries
Danko is right!!! The best answer. The disconnect between price and effect of the high-end equipment. When audio starts to take on economics of luxury goods. Also, there was someone pointing out that it is futile to chase the real thing.
11:46. That’s what she said.
I was both surprised and not surprised at all by the glaring lack of blind testing in the audiophile world. If this industry wasn't so saturated with snake oil you'd think it would be a lot more common.
Music streamers are snake oil they are just computers
Harry Baque in
Yes! I don't see the point of buying one.
and they will likely go obsolete as well
Nah! I’m very happy with my Yamaha RN 402 amp which has an integrated streamer. I basically got the amp for « free » with the purchase of my Klipsch RP 600M speakers. As streamers get cheaper, they won’t be considered snake oil anymore. Besides, setting up a Raspberry Pi for streaming is a pain.
I don’t stream much, but I can’t believe that music from Tidal, etc. can make its way through the whole freaking internet in apparently bit-perfect shape and then be improved by a 12 inch ethernet or USB cable made of whatever
WD 40 and Terra Spices in the same cabinet... my kind of place! This is a great topic; thanks for putting this video together.
The "watermelon man" had the most logical and common sense response. I guarantee he has a lot of first hand experience to back it up. Some of the others had nonsense responses.
The guy who said that nothing matched the real performance resonated the most with me. Especially since recordings are always heavily processed before they make it onto a song.
This subject did not come too early. Great video again. I love the interviews with those guys. I replaced my normal good plastic covered shielded cables (250 dollars), with some used Anti Cables I came across on the net. You know the solid copper ones with just some red laquer on. I don't own a super audio equipment. Just a ten year old McIntosh MA7000 and a pair of the new Klipsch Fortes 3 and a Yamaha CD S 1000. The difference was impressive. First: Better soundstage. Wow! Second: Slightly better, puchier and deeper bass-sound. Finally slightly clearer sound with subtle details I had't been hearing before. Now for 130 bucks second-hand for both interconnects and speaker cables, I would say that is a bargain. Didn't pay anybody's new Porsche around here. And they weren't even top level cables. Taking into account that I am 64 year old with reduced hearing, and being the weakest point in my soundsystem, I will recommend people to buy used Anti-Cables and try them out. It's system-dependant of course. There is not a quick fix here. It might not work for you. But it's your hobby, it's not religion!
Bettye Lavette : Let me down easy. Live concert in London. I turned off the light and did a proper pitchdarklistening. She was on the floor in front of me... Keb Mo: You got to move. Oh yes ! The Fortes behaved like I've been waiting for. Forward leaning party speakers! Fun-factor all the way.
But the records have to be good, as always...
1:31Dude spilled snake oil on his shirt. Thats going to stain.
Too True!!!!! I didn't hear a thing he said cuz that stain was yelling louder than he waa.
For me, this all boils down to the law of diminishing returns. Just how far one goes depends upon how far one is ready to go while keeping this simple law in one's mind.
IMHO, the diminishing returns hit very early. Just think about it. Engineers process recordings so that they sound good on any equipment. Regardless of price and performance.