My own story on hi-fi , for years I went through many many changes in equipment , turntables amplifiers , cables etc , you know the story , until one day i (finally realised) , I am sitting here listening for... (faults ).. (instead)...of listening to the (music) . Just ENJOY THE MUSIC .
Victor.. I think as get older we tend to think that we should not be doing this.. but really we are still living & enjoying our music & ear's.. I'm very much into my HiFi & apart from new Stylus & other little toys which are out there to help us look after our music.. the fun is still the same..
You are totally right Victor. I consider myself a budget audiophile. I stopped spending money and started to enjoy music in the equipment I could afford.
i'm convinced . keep in mind i start every video i watch on any subject with the intent to disagree or be insulting , but he crushed my bad attitude in short order with his sensible and lucid presentation .
everything change the sound your ears ,, your mood ;; your room ;; the way you turn your head ,,, ;; the kind of music ;; the recording ,,, much more than the cables !!!!!
Dear Antoine, I totally agree. As I say, cables are the very last fine tuning. Multi-strand copper is fine for our speakers, we just supply them ready made for anyone that wants them. It’s not magic.
In the 30 years that I have been working in the professional audio universe, one thing has become clear to me: the eye hears more than the ear. 🙂 HiFi is also superstition and I like your way of explaining.
You make an interesting point Rainer. When I am in front of a chamber ensemble, I often listen with my eyes closed. The funny thing is, when a small ensemble group, play together in an acoustically well balanced hall, there is no ‘soundstage’ as such. the sound of the instruments merges together. But with our eyes open, we can see it. What we achieve in recordings, is to create a soundstage that helps us at home ‘see’ the musicians in front of us. Of course it’s an illusion. But it’s an illusion that brings countless hours of joy to me and millions of people all over the world.
Been in electronics for over 40 years and wire vs SQ has never been an issue for me. I do like the bit that tightens the banana post in the hole. That's actually simply brilliant.
Came here for the comments, love them. Didn’t watch the video yet. I will say, when you look inside a tower speaker ( a have the respectable Rega R7), there is about 4 feet of zip cord ( or something similar) that travels from the binding post to the drivers. To think the 8 feet of external speaker wire makes much difference is pretty funny ( unless it’s very thin aluminum or something). But for some reason my friends still looked upon my good quality but fairly inexpensive cables with disdain. So I made my own, dressed up with nice ends, shrink tubing , and braided sleeves. Thinking I finally invested in higher end cables, They swear it made a difference. But it didn’t. Eyes play tricks on our ears.
Hi-Fi is a hobby and a passion. Engineering is essential part by any means. All the materials have their own fundamental specs and porpoise. Yours approach sir is very clear and honest. From this point we start to differ acceptance and understanding between us, audiophile is a world not meant for many. Apricated.
Here’s a analogy: 1. A tin roof is not going to be as strong as a concrete roof. Apparently a concrete roof costs more. 2. Similarly good quality interconnects and cables cost more than cheap copper?
As long as the cable is made of Copper and isn't too thin it will sound perfect. A 1€/m cable will sound the same as a 100€/m cable, as long as it fulfills a certain minimum critera.
@@rolandrohde Indeed. I have conducted my own blind test on my hi-fi using Van Damme cable (a good quality, reasonably priced copper cable) and another brand (£12.00 per metre) and I could tell no difference whatsoever.
@I was with your mother totally agree. I was justifying the cost differential between good and bad quality copper. Not debating whether the quality of sound would change significantly to justify the cost.
I once tried a set of Siltech speaker cables against a set of DNM ribbon speaker cables. The "upgrade" too the Siltech cables cost a couple of thousand pounds. It sounded rubbish. I went back too the DNM cable, which (then) cost around £40+ a stereo 2m pair. Fortunately the Siltech were on loan, so no money was lost by me. The "problem" was the Siltech cables just didn't suit the amp and speakers I was using, but the cheap DNM cables did. the Amp was an old Rogers A75 (remember them?) and a pair of Spendor SP1 speakers. I have since gone on to a Conrad Johnson MV55 valve amp, a Meridian 808 CD and Spendor S100 speakers. All connected with Van Den Hul interconnects (The Second) and their speaker cables (Revelation) The old DNM cables now don't suit the system, but I still keep them for old times sake. They would however make the current system sound lacking in weight and clarity if used and somewhat bright, but hey ho. It took a lot of money to find better than them in the end. The old Rogers amp still works too.
Years ago McIntosh used to do 'traveling labs," going from city to city. They would check your old amp if you brought one in. In those labs they would compare various speaker cables and ask listeners to identify when better cables were being used. The listeners did not know which cables were being used. There was no consistency in selecting between cables - from standard 18 gauge zip cord to "audiophile" cables. This proved to me that the whole issue of "better sound" with expensive cables is marketing - if you can't SEE that the expensive cables are being used, you can't "hear" the difference.
Hi thanks for your comment. I get your point entirely but I want to add that some manufacturers set out to make cables that sound different (and it’s quite easily done) but I personally prefer to keep things clean and just use plain, good quality multi strand copper.
I agree. Any decent cable is probably indistinguishable from another decent or even extraordinarily good cable, but a bad cable could ruin the sound. The balance is to get a decent one at a reasonable price.
Harley, you are a fantastic ambassador for hi-fi. Thank you for your video series. I just like how you avoid so much of the hyperbole and hype. Also, the aesthetic of your listening room is fantastic. I think that could be a video.... the importance of aesthetics in hi-fi -- almost as contentious as the effect of cables. To me, since my system is in my living room, the aesthetic is very important. To others, they seem to not care as long as it sounds good. However, I do think it makes a difference. To each their own I guess.
Thank you so much for your kind words. For me, having everything neat and tidy is important. I like to be able to relax when listening to music, and that helps. As does an inspirational painting! Keep your suggestions coming for new topics. I will be making some more after the Christmas break, right now we are busy in the factory, making sure to get our customer orders out in time and I am just finishing the mastering of a new double CD of Belgian classical music. The theme tune for my videos will be featured on it!
TY! Paul....reading through the comments...wow, people can be so harsh and unforgiving. I do not think it is extremely important how right you are or not, who am I to say? But, what I will say is that you bring a perspective that some may not have thought of. Whenever I read or examine anything in front of me, I pull out and remember the important things then, disregard the rest. I follow up by going to other reliable sources, and do the same. I then make reason with myself to make a final decision. No one is perfect. You are only providing your own perspective from your own experiences, and education. TY! for sharing!
I have a pair of Epos ES-14 loudspeakers. They are a two driver design with no crossover, only a capacitor across the tweeter. They are 30 year old speakers but can still outperform modern speakers today - where it really counts, in the midrange, vocals and acoustic performances. I believe it's because Robin Marshall custom designed the drivers to work together with the cabinets. Enjoyed this vid.
I have a pair of Epos ES-22 floorstanders coupled to a Quad Elite Series and I agree with everything you say. The amplifier connects directly to the mid driver. You can't better that.
The Robin Marshal designed ES14 and ES11 speakers are wonderful communicators of music , not hi fi.The main driver being directly coupled to the amplifier with a minimal 1 capacitor and 1 resistor to the tweeter , less is more.
I came across your video series recently and have truly enjoyed your approach to hifi audio. Which may be one area of discussion that carries more opinions than it is possible to count. My background is electronics and I too learned the water pipe model reference as a way to understand the dynamics of current and voltage within a circuit. LOL, I think it all started with how the instructor approached his discussion of Ohm's Law. However, what came soon thereafter was a discussion of the physical properties of wire and current flow (electron vs hole flow anyone?) and two distinct properties stuck with me over all of my years (now 65 of them) and those are that a wire is a component, just as a capacitor, resistor, inductor and that all wire has properties of these three values. Those values become more important with the length of the wire and/or the frequency of the signal being carried by the wire. The deep physics behind your simply elegant explanation lives and breaths. My mind immediately went back to two things that I have always considered with cabling. 1) Strong tight physical connections are critical to performance and safety in high current applications. 2) Surface volume of your cable directly influences (for better or worse) its ability to carry a signal unadulterated. Or at least to the extent possible or necessary. Your in house made cables address both of those core parameters along with the separation of the +/- cables to avoid environmental contamination. Quality of the materials is in my opinion a given, considering your customer base and your personal expectations. Listening to your discussions has brought me back to my wayward youth where I gladly traded nearly all of my cash in the pursuit of my audio Holy Grail. Best of continued success.
@@listeningto8371 yes indeed, area is the correct term. I was enjoying a nice pour of my favorite bourbon when listening to the discussion and had liquid on my mind.
Thanks David, it’s amazing just how many sub-atomic, particle physicists there are out there! 😉 All views welcome as long as they are respectful and genuinely enquiring. Best wishes, Harley
Rubber sleeve coated with more rubber...so you can imagine you can do long runs. Rubber doesn't insulate against interference. What a crock! Lol, just use speak on, or xlr cheap and far superior. This guy is such a sales guy with subpar knowledge about basic electronics and principles
Thank you Harley, at the end you said what I was waiting to hear," that you can have those speaker cables forever" I have been told by friends that my speaker cables should be changed,as they are around 8 years old but I dont hear a difference. As a matter of interest they are EAR Yoshinos and I love the sound of those. Thanks once again.
Based on the numerous opinions expressed in the comments below and elsewhere, starting off your video by saying that cables are probably the most contentious topic was spot on. I understood the gist of your video to be: experiment yourself and make up your own mind. I don't understand people getting angry about it. If one person thinks they make a difference, then great! If another person thinks that they don't make a difference, then just as great!
Electrons do not bash into each other, in some kind of microscopic Newton's Cradle manner. There is such a thing as electron drift velocity - it's dependent on current and also wire diameter but a typical figure is about a tenth of a millimetre per second. Energy is delivered through a conductive material by dint of an electromagnetic field. A conductive material is that in which such a field can exist. That's how transformers are able to energise a secondary coil (or multiple secondaries) even though the coils are insulated from each other. I don't like being a party pooper, but the information presented here regarding the fundamentals of electricity flow simply isn't correct.
@@MoltenJules Good point, Julian - I hadn't considered that electrons would need to 'unbash' each other as well as bash into each other. I'm not disappointed for me, but for the people who might believe this stuff...
of course not...these guys all 'preach' in the same manner......it is as if they have to translate their 'brilliance' into a lower level language for us mere mortals. this guy, and all of the other posers, are full of BS.
@@Richard-bq3ni It's a special electron microscope. Made with polycaps and oxygen-free silver cables ! The electrons have no choice but to declare their whereabouts to whomever is watching 😂
I do enjoy hearing the cod science behind justifying ridiculous prices for equipment including cables. So easy to do a scientific comparison and a blind test. These have been done many times and prove there's no difference ( unless you use damaged cables or wet string ). I can't wait to hear his justification for ridiculously priced digital interconnects. The only advice you need is "if you can't hear the difference, don't pay the difference!"
@I was with your mother Digital signal cables make a difference? How? It's a digital signal with error correction. It's binary. Many tests have been done PROVING there's no difference. People are being ripped off.
@@SuperMiloBass I agree. Other than a total crap cable no difference. I just a $700 USB 2.0 cable, and the reviewer claimed better bass response. Same with copper vs silver for USB cables.
You have to use cable risers that only cost 3,000usd to awaken the electrons inside those 10,000usd and then you also have to let it burn in for a couple hundred hours.
guess you've never had a wagyu hamburger, have you.... 200 bucks. looks like a 1 dollar burger, but it does taste quite a bit better than the 1 dollar burger... this video is a cook explaining a recipe, for your ears. up to us if we try out his recipe ;-)
I owned accuphase ASLC-30 , around 2.5k new. I had luck since i got them with my loudspeakers for free. After one year of listening i decidet to test finally cables. The end of my own testing was that i sold them for 1k bought some forn 15 usd and had a great vacaction. Not one difference i was able to detect. That was around 7 years ago. Today i would like to have them back just for a better feeling :) . Like your vids.
Exactly right. His explanation of the transmission of audio down the cable is weird. He says electrons clump together. How's that? They are negatively charged, they repel each other. Cables can make a difference. A high resistance, (long and thin) cable with a low impedance speaker will reduce the damping of the system which can change the low frequency response, but if the cable is less than the 10% of the combined resistance of the amplifier and speaker you won't tell the difference. Generally well designed amplifiers have output resistance of 10 to twenty times less than the nominal speaker impedance, so the speaker resistance is usually the dominant factor. Figure 8 cables usually have an inter conductor capacitance of 60 pF per meter so 5 meters will be 300pf. Assuming the amplifier output impedance at 20 kHz is less than 1 ohm the nominal cutoff frequency of the cable (-3dB) point will be 500 mega Hz ;way over the maximum audio range. Here is the best explanation of "current flow" in an electrical circuit.
my guess is that by changing the shape of the voice coil wire, your driver supplier has improved the efficiency while shifting the RLC characteristics of it, thus changing the inevitable resonance peaks in a way the shrillness between 2 and 4 kHz found itself to be tamed to acceptable levels
I think your explanation is fantastic it was a pleasure listening to it I wish other companies that bash either speakers or cables would listen to your presentation
As you explained, there is a lot of difficulty in reaching a balance between the main variables in a loudspeaker cable that make for a believable sound at the listening position. A lot of what we get out depends on the magnetic field the alternating signal current generates, alternating the positions of the electrons inside the metallic crystals in the wire filaments of the cable. Then, it’s a consideration of how those myriad magnetic fields in each metallic crystal interact with the magnetic fields in adjacent crystals. The magnetic fields do work on each other and together generate a general magnetic field around the wire that moves any nearby electrons too and, according to how any electron was moving when it met the change in its local magnetic field, electron movements can actually be antithetical to transmission of the signal that is modulating the electrons’ positions. The wire ends up as a system where the signal current modulating magnetic fields creates many more magnetic fields which induce many more different currents. The longer the wire gets the more entropic the movements until the modulation is finally masked and the signal is no longer discernible. The system is not at all simple or pure in reality and, only a proportion of the intended signal remains to do useful work at the drive unit, as a magnetic field around the voice coil. The wire is also an aerial and creates part of a tuned circuit that can take radio frequencies back into the amplifier. I like how you addressed the problem by creating a reference cable to act as a known starting position for Sibelius’ neutrality. Cables behave predictably as part of the system they’re in.
Yes as far as I have learned to date, to really understand why cables do matter, you’d need a degree as a physicist. The only thing to me that matters is though, that it has a tremendous impact on how the system acts and therefor creating the illusion of something sounding „right“ or „real“. Thanks for the infos
When PMC were doing demo's of the BB5/XB5 active systems with full Bryston amplification, it was rather refreshing to see the cables they used were basic OFC copper 79 strand. This was some years back, and to this day is one of the most memorable speaker/amplification systems I have heard, front end was DSD recordings from a PC and redbook CD from an Arcam CD player.
Thank your for the explanation. Your logical conclusion will save quite some money for those of who were considering to invest in expensive cables or clear the “what if” doubts from the minds of those who weren’t. 👍
Truth is that well engineered speaker cables providing excellent resistive conductivity and excellent impedance concerning effects of inductance and capacitance can easily output a signal to your speaker that is well above the resolving qualities of your hearing when everything else is of high quality. Of course those companies making insane margins on speaker cables never want to show a proper null test proving their signal transfer improvements...because they know science will fail for them. Don't waste US$1000s on speaker cables costing US$10s to produce.
would have been nice to see some measurements 0,15 and 30 degrees on the sibelius since it´s not frequencu corrected so how does it take care of the baffle step.
Water analogy- diameter of pipe = resistance of cable, smaller pipe = higher resistance. Water pressure differential- voltage, higher pressure difference = higher voltage Speed of water through pipe- amps flowing through a wire. Start the water moving, it starts through the whole pipe even though the water molecules are only moving slowly, they start moving together throughout the pipe, same with electrons, they move slowly but they all start together, well, at the speed of light.
Thank u so much sir. Im so glad i found you. You seem so sincere not trying to sell anything but merely enlighting people such as myself with love for sound but ignorant & tiered of spending money on tryel & error in order to aquire the tone desired without spending fortunes from false salesmen. ✌️🙏 thank you sir.
@@Scottlp2 It's about as close to reality as saying that petrol engines work by the pistons being pushed by the flatulence of little red demons that live inside and love to drink petrol.
It is even the opposite. Electron repel eachother since they have all have negative charge. What actually happens: The electrons jump from the shell of one copper atom to the shell of another one where a "hole" has been created because that atom also had an electron that has jumped. The electrons are moving from - to + The "holes" is what we call the current, and move from + to - Cables do have an effect on the current that they are carrying. There is resistance, capacitance and inductance and skin effect. The capacitance and inductance in a normal speaker cable are so low, you can just ignore it for audio frequencies. At most, it will attenuate higher frequencies, but never to the extend that it will be audible. This is an educated guess, I did not take the time to calculate this. The resistance just attenuates the signal, and doesn't change the sound. The volume knob will compensate for this. Skinn effect again can have a very small impact on the highest frequencies, but virtually inaudible. Audioholics have some calculations on their site for sure. Of course a speaker voice coil can change the sound. It is a coil, so a high inductance, and together with the filter, I guess you can create an unwanted resonance frequency.
@@Richard-bq3ni thank you for this excellent comment. It adds greatly to the quality of the debate. The problem in all these talks is to which level one should explain things. I am not a physicist but I did refer to one. I even contemplated bringing one into the short video but I felt it unnecessary. Your comment has added the value I was looking for. But of course it is very possible that someone will now challenge it.
I've built and sold custom speakers for 30-35 years, and when it came to building my own speakers, put away flat ribbons, woven, and networked cables, and voiced them to work best for me with 16 gauge figure 8 speaker wire. When I want playback I like better, I'll change an active component in the signal chain, and never worry about wires again. I do like Mark Audio stuff and still have some, as well as some early EJ Jordan drivers I think he collaborated on.
Saying that electric current actually consists of electrons 'bashing' into each other doesn't explain why electrons don't pour our out of the free end of a wire if you connect the other end to a battery. The reason electrons don't pour out is because there's no difference in electrical 'pressure' along the wire until a complete circuit is made, and the circuit contains a battery (or equivalent). You need the (electrical) pressure gradient along the wire to make the electrons flow, just as the dishwasher hose needs a pressure difference between the ends of the hose to make the water flow. In some ways analogy with water isn't as ridiculous as suggested here, although of course it's imperfect. The electrons in a metal such as copper can be divided into two sorts: ones attached to particular copper atoms, and others that are dissociated from atoms and free to move. The dissociated ones, being mobile on the large scale, carry the current. The dissociated electrons are somewhat like an incompressible liquid in the sense that they don't clump together in particular places (at least, not at the frequencies encountered in audio).
I found this really interesting thank you. I would just also point out that a set of loudspeaker cables are an inductor, a resistor and a capacitor. These effects may be more important than the grouping of electrons (or maybe I am wrong). I use standard UK twin and earth for loudspeaker cable. I was going with the idea that current carrying capacity was important. It sounds good to me. I know some people will disagree here, but try it out... fit twin & earth and see what you think of the sound.
Thank you for the video. I'm thinking of making some speaker cables for myself and, sifting through various diy forums, I came to the conclusion that ideally the positive and the negative wires should be twisted around one another and not separated due to electromagnetic interference. Would love to hear your opinion on the matter. Cheers.
Hi, I don’t want to get into fights with anyone. All I can say is separated cables work best for us. There’s a lot of science and a lot of pseudo science. I like to listen to the likes of Colin Wonfor and many others. At the end of the day try, compare and decide for yourself. I hope this helps?
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you for a prompt response. I was just curious and certainly wasn't looking to pick a fight. As we are probably going to end it here, I just wanted to attach a link to a video that might be of interest to you and/or anyone who reads this: th-cam.com/video/P7WfY9P2uNY/w-d-xo.html Best regards, J.
@@janezzumer1639 Hello Janez. I heartily recommend making your own speaker cables (in fact I recommend making all your own equipment, but one step at a time, eh?). Wires being twisted around each other are very common in internal wiring in audio equipment and in network/telecoms cabling too, but less common with hi-fi loudspeaker cables, as I'm sure you've noticed. One reason wires are twisted in small signal carrying wires inside communications equipment is mainly to make sure that any electromagnetic field that impinges upon the twisted pair induces a potential into each part equally - so the signal, which is the difference between them remains unaffected. The 'complementary' reason for the twisting is so that one signal wire can't put it's field onto an outside component all on its own without it's 'buddy' being there to cancel it out. There's a third reason for twisting, due to the shape, but before I mention that, so far I've only been thinking of small signal conductors - like inside a preamp or the input wiring of a power amp. Twisting wires is really important here because any unwanted signal that gets induced onto such wires is just about to get amplified along with the wanted signal. Speaker cables come after the amplification has occurred, and so the signal they carry is much bigger and noise that is induced in them would represent a much smaller fraction of the wanted signal (higher signal/noise ratio). So it's less important/necessary to twist speaker wires together (although as the very effective video you linked to demonstrates, the speaker wires themselves could perhaps put noise onto something else if they're separated). The third reason for twisting the cables is that once twisted, they are no longer parallel to each other, so the signal in one wire isn't trying to induce a signal in it's counterpart. They're actually 'constantly' crossing each other at an angle (it's hard [for me, maybe not you] to visualise but it's similar to being able to see that an orbiting body like the ISS is constantly 'falling' around the Earth, the two conductors are similarly constantly crossing at an angle). Having said that, the central spacer section in the insulation on many speaker cables (that give it the 0-0 cross section) will separate the conductors enough to lower their effect on each other significantly. I suspect the reason most manufacturers make speaker cables in parallel runs is that it takes less raw material to get from A to B if you go in a straight line (the Roman road concept) and twisted cables need a longer length of wire. Cable manufacturers are in the business of turning cheap(-ish) metal strands into much-more-cash-than-it's-worth. You could perhaps make your own cables as a parallel pair to start with, then twist them after a while as a Mark 2 version - I used a factor of 1.6 times the length I wanted the final twisted end-product to be when buying my 'raw' wire for my own speaker cables. In hindsight that was probably a bit generous, but I couldn't run the risk of them being too short... Keep your terminations clean and tidy at each end, good luck, and enjoy... :D [Edit: restore a chunk of a sentence in the middle that somehow disappeared]
@@HandbrakeBiscuit Thank you for taking the time and providing me (and others) with such a detailed explanation. The cables I use at the moment are made of 13 AWG OF copper speaker wires that run in parallel and are terminated with banana plugs. After reading your reply (twice:), I certainly see no reason not to pull the wires apart, twist them and use some classy Techflex sleeving to finish it all off. Cheers! J.
I ran 6.5 meters of 230 volts 3 amp electric cable behind my coving for wall-mounted speakers 15 years ago because it's all I had at the time, I'm still using it to power cheap Wharfedale Diamonds 9.1 fifteen years later, no way am I pulling the coving down to replace it. That cable has been doing a fine job running my budget setup...All sorts of formats at high/med quality from my PC through an Onkyo TX-SR444 AV receiver; sometimes using a little buffer tube amp. I gave up being pedantic almost from the very start because my room and layout is probably one of the worst to do it anywhere near right. Someday I plan to change all that but hey, I still manage to enjoy music through what I have without feeling sorry for myself, and; hopefully, when I can upgrade, I will feel and hear the difference I hope : ) I do enjoy watching and learning about what I'm missing though, yeah, I must be a glutton for punishment. I hope you lot can all enjoy your much better equipment now knowing that some ( like myself ) aren't quite living the dream just yet but are still content ❤
Great comment. It all makes perfect sense to me! Convenience and practicality are important, but never as important as the music! I don’t find your situation strange. I enjoy looking at channels about classic cars. I’ll never change mine but it’s nice to dream and get involved in conversations that will never lead to anything.
@@PearlAcoustics I guess dreams are more important than some would believe or we wouldn't have them, Harley. I'll be checking out more of your videos, I'm sure I'll learn something.
I believe that speaker cable can make a difference. However, the reason is not the one that most people presume. Usually the difference is quite subtle, which leads to arguments. It can also be inconsistent, which leads to all sorts of mysticism about matching and tuning by ear etc. I suspect that the root cause of all this is in amplifier design and the fact a speaker cable is not simply a low resistance connection between amp and speaker terminals but also adds in some inductance and capacitance that appear across the amplifier terminals along with the speaker load. I once had two amplifiers I was playing around with and I also had two pairs of speakers and two lots of cable. Rather than getting a subtle difference when trying different permutations, I got obvious gross misbehaviour of one amp with one cable that was fine with the other amp and vice-versa. Each amp was obviously distorting with one cable while sounding very good with the other. The differences were opposite and not subtle. This made me believe that in other circumstances there could be real but more subtle differences experienced by people swapping cables around and one person's great cable could be disappointing for another person. One speaker pair was my very good main set only a few meters from the amplifiers in the living room. The other pair were quite a bit further away in another room and quite good but nothing special - the kitchen speakers. I had some ordinary figure 8 lamp flex as the speaker cable for the remote set and I had some fancy, silver-coated, audiophile-branded cable for the shorter run to the main speakers. The figure 8 cable had the two conductors running close and parallel to each for a long distance. This made the cable also a capacitor across the amplifier terminals. One amp was stable into that and the other wasn't. The amp that had a problem with a long run of figure 8 lamp flex was fine with a shorter run of the same stuff. The audiophile cable was completely separate single conductor cables that ran along with quite a bit of separation between them - little capacitance but adding some series inductance (even a straight wire has some inductance). The other amplifier did not like seeing that load but was fine with any amount of figure 8. The fix was quite easy. I put a Zobel network between the speaker terminal and the start of the cable. A zobel is essentially a simple passive crossover such as one might have in a 2-way speaker between tweeter and woofer except that the crossover frequency is set well above 20kHz. The low pass side sends all the audio frequencies to the speaker while the high pass side gives ultrasonic frequencies a simple 8 ohm resistor as the load. The amps sees a more well-behaved load. Many amplifiers have such a network built in but some don't, perhaps to give better looking specs such as very wide bandwidth, well beyond the audio range. A better design, as many have, would be to add this simple network on the output inside the amp, ensure that the amp has a known, designed load at ultrasonic frequencies and it would be more immune to differences of cable or even quirky speaker loads.
You are brave to post this video. I would just say I respectfully disagree and that a functioning cable does not sound different from each other. Also, mechanically changing the shape of the voice coil will affect resonance but isn't really anything to do with cables or conductance. Thanks for the video though and I like your presentation style.
I'm glad that you presented this topic quiet honestly. It is a topic that can be discussed forever. My question is when you mention pure copper Is it the OFC Copper or the 6N 99.9999% Copper ?
Hi Walter, thank you for your comment and kind words. In the case of our cables we looked more at the resistance per Km rather than the purity of the copper. I know that’s not how many HiFi cable manufactures see it but we stick to the standard international terms. I know it’s not the same thing but if you are interested the resistance of our cable it 0,78 ohms per Km. What we find important is how it sounds and in our case we just use it to form a ‘standard’ benchmark by which we can compare production with each other. And happen to like what we hear! Hoping this helps?
Quite nice video. Love to see that you do not need those ‚multiply woven, multi layer, oxygene-free, silver, blabla,...“ cables. I drive my speakers from a legendary Tannoy TA600 power amp via thick PA-cables from Klotz, connected to the amp via Speakon connectors - all perfect!
Contentious is exactly the right adjective with regard to the subject of this video. Most of those, men or women, who can afford an „ultra expensive“ Hi-Fi system are older, at least over 50 years old. These are people who have made it in life and wish to enjoy the fruits of their former toils. The issue here however is that most of those over 50 don’t have perfect hearing. I would defy anyone over that age to tell me that they can hear all the audio nuances delivered by such systems and cables. I am convinced that this world of audiophiles is full of people who convince, either themselves, or be convinced by others, that „this“ listening experience is because of A, B, C, D or …………. . I understand your explanation, it makes absolute sense, and to be honest, I wish I at my age, 66, could hear the difference. Last year, I went to a showroom full of mega expensive systems. I have some knowledge of speaker systems, amplifiers, pre-amps etc. But, is it worth all that money? I can hear all you audiophiles now, laughing, joking at my comments. But really.:……………
Thank you so much for your comment and appreciation. Like all hobbies, from grinding coffee to fishing and indeed to HiFi there are always those will go to extremes to convince themselves and others, that their purchases make sense. The important point for me, at least, is if they enjoy what they purchase. If they get a sense of satisfaction… and that the manufacturer is totally sincere and honest with themselves and their customers. At the end it’s about enjoying the music, even if one’s hearing isn’t what it used to be. The most critical area for music appreciation is in the mid range and upper mids. Luckily, aging does not affect those bands too much.
Well there you are 10 AWG copper , the sensible choice, given that there has never been any blind test that demonstrated any difference whatsover between cables .
I recently discovered your channel doing research about setting about to create a hifi system. I enjoy these videos very much but I have to say your voice sounds exactly like Peter Frampton! 😊
For 40 years of being a audiophile, all I know the best cable is the best match between the connected machine, type of music and the taste of the listener. It was never about price.
I will tell you a secret... in our listening room we have had quite a few different rca cables, from very expensive (gifts from people wanting reviews to very cheap ones, including ones we bought ourselves, and the ones I like the most are ‘Amazon Basics’ they are very smooth sounding and yet still detailed. I think they were less than 10EUR a pair
The type of music cannot possibly affect a cables performance, or any other component in an audio system. The choice of music is subjective and purely in the mind of the listener. A good component or system is by definition capable of achieving accurate reproduction, regardless of the input signal. If a component or system is perceived as being musically inaccurate, it will be with all and any music it reproduces. Subjectively a listener may tolerate this inaccuracy or even be unaware of it, nevertheless the system or component cannot possibly alter it's performance depending on the nature of the signal. A music signal has only three components; Frequency, amplitude and phase, which have absolute values at any given moment, if we imagine an audio system as a measurement device, the potential for error given that these values are constantly changing is clearly enormous.
@@jerrypartington3650 The electrical properties of the conductors may impart some analogue change to the electrical properties of the voltage signal representing the audio frequencies, but I'd in my experience it would seem that at the distances and gauges we're talking about they would be so small as to be undiscernible. If there is a more noticeable change depending on cabling used, something else is going on.
Makes sense. What I did not hear is any comment on the relationship between the two conductors. IMHO it makes a difference if they are twisted vs running in parallel a few inches apart. I heard you mention that the hookup inside the box runs a couple inches apart. I had great success with simple diy interconnects using 24awe wires separated by 1/2 an inch. I thought why not the same with speaker cables. For no good reason I ran the two conductors 1" apart. They were good but had some sound characteristics I did not like. I changed to lots of twisted pairs and sound was different. An improvement to my ear. I was surprised you found no worries about the relationship between the two conductors.
I find twisting the conductors makes a big difference (improvement) when running over a longer distance. For example 4 cad 5 E cables platted together and then run per terminal. Works extremely well. But like all these things you need to try it to see. Best wishes
@@PearlAcoustics Just a little note: CAT5 (and higher) are designed for frequencies 350MHz to around 1GHz. And that's why they are twisted so tightly. For an audio signal there is no need for that. An old fashion CAT3 (twisted pair telephone cable) will do just fine. The twist count in those cables is high enough to eliminate potential ingress from power grid (50 - 60Hz), crosstalk and the frequency response is more than enough for 20 to 25k Hz audio signal. The only thing is the current. So you have to put together few CAT cables to make large enough cross section area for caring the load. For ex. for a ~100W RMS amp - speaker system we need a speakers cable able to carry almost 4A of current. That be a wire similar to 10 AWG, which has cross section around 3.3mm^2. CAT cables are made of 22 to 26 AWG wires (0.4mm in diameter / 0.5mm^2). Hence we need 7 of those wires to make a 3.3mm^2 cross section. So basically we need 2 CAT5E cables (8 wires in each) to do the job 😉 best regards TJ
@@tjblues01 absolutely. Thanks for your comment snd calculations. I mention CAT cable because it is readily available, cheap, of high quality and you can simply double it up to get the cross section of copper you require.
@@PearlAcoustics Totally agree 👍Only reason why I go with "proper" speaker cables is aesthetics. They just look better than home made ones. But if you have a way to hide them... 😉
he mistook the voice coil change (mechanical shape change, which affects resonance etc) with electrical change. big false correlation. from then on, it was all downhill
Приятель, искал твой комент. С одной стороны,даже хорошо, что в мире полно дураков, готовых платить за маркетинг, просто за дизайн люди не хотят платить, им нужны понты! Действительно, форма катушки важна ибо меняет индукцию. меняется зазор в магните. Именно это важно в дизайне акустики. НО ЭТО НЕ ИМЕЕТ НИКАКОГО отношения к серебрянным кабелям. Всего 2 лайка. нужно принять что мир полон дураков и просто делать на них бабки!
I think he was only trying to make a general point that seemingly innocuous changes can indeed make a surprisingly and significant difference in changing what was once mundane and ordinary into something superior. Instead of the voice coil example I suppose he could have said he could got better gas mileage when he changed the tread design on his car tires, or simply rotated the tires. Moral of the story or point made, he starts his speaker cable talk. Obviously there is no correlation between tires/gas mileage and interconnects or speaker cables, just making the point that small changes anywhere (tires, voice coils, cables, or whatever) can yield beneficial results. That's my take on what he was saying anyway, and not so much about what tire tread (or a voice coil) has to do directly with speaker cables.
He gave an example of how small changes in material and composition can have unexpectedly noticable outcomes. Then he he proceeds to explain that the speaker cables are as simple as possible. He is more or less advertising anti-snake-oil and the people in the comments are like "gotcha - snake oil!"
A full range driver with no Baffle Step, or Impedance Compensation. I would think with a set up like that, speaker cables would be the least of your worries.
Where do you get your copper cable? If I heard correctly, you said there are 80 strands wrapped in rubber. In the USA on internet I have not found any copper wire described in this manner. Only gauge is given and it seems PVC plastic is the wrapper of choice with rare mention of silicone. Should contact with plastic be avoided? Thank you.
It’s not easy to find and we have to buy it from a specialist supplier in lengths of minimum 1km. If you want some cable without connectors, we can make you a price. Please contact us via the website. Hope this helps?
There are four main factors that affect speaker cables: The material of the conductor, Resistance, inductance, capacitance. minimize these as much as possible and you’ll have a great sounding cable. Multi strand OCC Copper sounds wonderful.
You missed the dielectric completely. I don't normally wade into this, but since the clip is made by a 'trade specialist' I'm going to. *The* determinig factors for 'transmission of electricity' are Maxwell's equations and the Poynting vector. Understand those and you know why cables matter. For better or worse depends, but matter it does;
@@landiepete Sure. And the Maxwell equations will also tell you at which frequency the dielectric properties will contribute notably or barely. And this Frequency is... ? Please enlighten us.
Dear Harley, Just a little question. How about using short speaker cables and place the power amp between the speakers and use long signal cables instead? (Balanced signal cables)
Hi, thanks for your question. In fact that’s what basically happens with active studio monitors. Personally, I don’t see a challenge with loudspeaker cables, in as much as the impact on sound with them is very, very small (unless a cable manufacturer deliberately sets out to bring a change about). So as long as one uses a sensible gauge and good quality copper the usual lengths used in domestic situations is not an issue. But your solution is valid, none the less.
Countless blindtests showed that good standard cables are not distinguishable from the 1000 € High End Cables... the results were always what would have been the mathematical outcome of guesswork . I bought some thicker copper cables because they do look better :-) That's all.
Thanks Harley, after watching your presentation I'll probably invest in, as budget allows, something other than the standard interconnects & speaker cables.
Thank you for another interesting video, Harley. My understanding of electron conduction is a bit more similar to Richard's below, however, so I'll have to forgive that part. To return to your water pipe analogy, voltage is more like water pressure and current is more like flow. Electrons are in a probability cloud in probable energy states like Bohr's model's 'shells'. As they are wave/particles with a negative charge they do repel each other. However the 'electron cloud' has a net drift from - to + terminal as the immediate potential difference pressurizes them to do so. The more electrons that arrive in parallel or within infinitesimal time intervals, the higher the perceived current. The actual physical speed or net drift of the electron cloud is surprisingly low - about one tenth of a millimeter per second - but of course, the propagation of pressure is near (50%-99%) the speed of light (what we call the speed of conduction). Here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity is quite a nice article describing electron drift and conduction. In a speaker cable, however, we have alternating current, so it's a bit like watching people in a pool with a wave machine - one moment they are all going one way then as the wave reverses and they all go the other way. The people move a little bit but NOT at the speed of the wave. At the end of the day, electrons will not have drifted at all. So to refine our water pipe analogy - think of it as a transparent pipe containing smoke or fog. The higher the voltage the denser the fog; the higher the current, the more fog particles exit the pipe per second. If the hole at the end is small (high resistance), few particles will exIt per second. If the hole is big (low resistance) many fog particles will exit (high current). I hope this turned physics into something you can more easily picture - physics isn't always intuitive and rarely easy to visualize. This model is also flawed but is a little bit better, IMHO. Conducting cables are in fact transmission lines and have resistance, capacitance and inductance all of their own - all of those things that you wanted to leave out by having no crossover! Here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegrapher%27s_equations is an excellent animated diagram illustrating exactly what I meant about electrons in a transmission line. As you can see, _everything_ has an influence and the old Quad phrase 'a piece of straight wire with gain' would even have resistance, inductance and capacitance of its own. Sometimes you just can't win! This is exactly where the experience of a designer is paramount, because it's all about making informed feats of balancing and matching one component to another. All the best from Switzerland, Rob
Dear Rob this is fantastic! A really great contribution to the comments. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this input with us all. No doubt the discussions and debates will continue. It seems I kicked something off here! 😉
the solution to the problem you described with the driver and the shape of the conductor for the coil might not have been purely electrical as you alluded but also mechanical or purely mechanical in nature.
Indeed Dimitrios, that could also be true. But when a person who has been designing voice coils snd transducers for decades, and who makes such an incredible product - then I tend to take his opinion as gospel. Who knows? The important thing is - it made a big difference. And if you ever come to visit us. I can demonstrate silver plated loudspeaker cables versus twisted copper. I am sure you’ll hear a difference. Strange things these.
@@PearlAcoustics thank you for responding. i think it is important to know the answer to critical questions and in the case of technology and audio the proper 'marriage' of good knowledge of psycho-acoustics (the subjective part) and objective laboratory measurements never disappoints. i appreciate your invitation and i wish you the best.
I have a reasonable quality collection of components and like many, it's tough to get the sound exactly how one prefers it. I have tried a few different brands of interconnects and speaker cables over the years, and with higher end, more sensitive equipment, cables make an obvious difference to the sound due to capacitance, inductance etc that makes components react differently to each other. It's mostly a crap-shoot getting the right mix, but when you do it's certainly night and day and I used to be the guy that laughed at people that praised the cable voodoo. It's more science than fiction, and it's doesn't necessarily take expensive cabling to get the desired effect as I recently found out.
With respect, that makes exactly no sense and has never been proved. So if you did indeed heard difference (which no one ever proved), no engineer (no electric engineer nor sound engineer, no music producer for that matter) could make sense of what you heard and why. So how would someone come up with a 'technology' that is making clear changes in sound quality, if it is impossible to conceive it nor to test it? It really must be magician working at it. Would be interesting to wonder how come audio component are so sensitive that they produce impossible things to measure nor explain but video doesnt have any of those issues. Nor does the equipment at the ER, or in a science lab in a university. Only your speakers for your hears. Wild. Anyway, if you enjoy your speakers, that is all that matter!
Makes no logical sense mate, but even showing you mathematical proof I guess you wont believe it, because logic doesnt really come into these arguments, your eyes and belief shapes your perception of what you hear...true fact.
@@healthylifestyle3427 Good reply, I think all electrical/electronic engineers that understand ohms law, knows speaker cables are unimportant (as long as you get the right awg), but unfortunately its impossible to convince those that have no interest in engineering. Sound perception, db threshold levels etc are well known and researched, so we know what thresholds people can hear and therefore simple calculations on power loss clearly show its impossible for ANYONE to hear a difference between two 'good enough' cables.
Cables have been a very continuous topic as I am sure you are well aware. Cables are trivially easy to measure, Could you please provide the measurements that differentiates your cables from more generic cables.
Hi, thanks for your comment. Firstly, let me repeat what I state in the video. There is nothing special about our cables. Except that they are of high quality, sit nice and flat on the floor, have a low capacitance, low resistance and consist of 80 strands of copper, each. When we developed our loudspeakers we had to decide what to use as a reference point and we chose for multi-strand copper because we knew everyone could get hold of it easily. It is very easy to make a cable alter the sound, all you need to do is add capacitance into the casing, or make it resistive, or induce an inductance (or a combination of all three). Some manufacturers do this to make their cables sound nice. Because the amount they alter by are usually very small, it can be hard to measure, but not impossible. Hoping this helps?
After reading an interview in Stereophile with Henry Kloss, where he discusses working on a new design speaker, and when done, found that they could achieve the same quality sound, by simply using some Radio Shack Realistic brand loudspeakers but using a 10 band equalizer in the system, I've saved myself tens of thousands of dollars on equipment. I replaced the Klipschorns on my buying list with some Cerwin Vega AT-15's, and the Macintosh tube amplifier with a pair of Adcoms, as well as some other 'mid fi' equipment instead of the super expensive stuff that my audio snob friends had bought, and I had a lovely great sounding system. I guess I'm just lucky to have a 'low fi' pair of ears, so I'm able to enjoy my (now ancient) stereo system, while my friends spend all their time trying to find the difference in sound between monster cable and the simple 12 gauge lamp cord that I use. It must be terribly irritating to all the snob stereophiles who feel that they absolutely, positively, have to find the exact combination of absurdly expensive equipment so they can hear the squeaks and clicks that no one else can hear. Perhaps they can also hear the voice of god while they examine their setups.
It's a shame the cables have a white rubber insulating core. I find a light blue works best with rubber, especially on a Monday, although sky-blue-pink seems best for PVC covered cable, but it is in short supply, due to Covid 19 and the cold weather in Canada. Looking at the cost of most 'audiofool' cables, it is also cost-effective to braze pound coins together to create a nice, sturdy cable, although they are a trip hazard to small children and giraffe's....(polish your coins first, though, as the skin effect is a real issue at higher frequencies) 😉
I suspect this post is not entirely serious, yet I enjoyed it greatly. Don't craze the pound coins together too strongly - they need to move so they can bash into each other and make the electrons move without moving.
You, Sir, must be jesting. Surely you know that elevating said cables from the ground to avoid the mighty ground effect that demonstrably spinabulates electromagnetic interferences is of utmost importance. I dare say even more important than rubber sheathing in the 1st place ! And don't go for the cheap twice-baked ceramic conical ones that were broken in for less than 200 hours. Those are certainly not Audiophile quality !
Silver plated copper wire - of a very high quality - is easy to source and not all that expensive, as long as you buy it from a military electronics surplus supplier. Miles of it are used inside every aircraft. I've got a whole reel of it here. But I bought it because it's nice to solder, not because it can have any effect on the sound of a hifi. Audio cables can only have a particular sound if there's something wrong with them, like a bad connection or a grossly underspecifed diameter for the power they are handling - unless you live in a universe where the laws of physics are different to this one - I wonder if that universe is where all the audiophiles live ?
"I wonder if that universe is where all the audiophiles live ?" Reality. I've been listening to claims like yours for over 30 years. I'm still waiting for a single credible test to prove people like you are right. If you can't produce anything real, why would anyone believe you?
@@AT-wl9yq The ridiculous claims come from the woo woo cable manufacturers and gullible people who think that if it's more expensive then it must be better. It's you and peple like you who need to provide credible blind tests to prove that stuff like 'oxygen free' copper cables or unobtainium coated cables sound better than normal multi stranded copper cables of adequate size and this has never been done. Only fools believe the woo woo cable bullshit.
@@AT-wl9yq I don't need to prove that it's all in your head, it's up to you to provide the evidence if you believe these claims that exotic expensive speaker cables are better than ordinary multi stranded copper cables of adequate size. It not too much different from people claiming that the Earth is flat, I don't need to prove them wrong, I know it isn't flat, science says it's not flat and most sane people dont believe that rubbish. I don't need to prove the blatantly obvious, it's up to you with your claims about woo woo cables to prove it's not in your head.
@@fins59 The reason I'm asking you for proof is because I know for a fact, you can't do it. "I don't need to prove that it's all in your head, it's up to you to provide the evidence if you believe these claims that exotic expensive speaker cables are better than ordinary multi stranded copper cables of adequate size." I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. However, after reading the above, Its clear you don't have a full understanding of the scientific method, especially when it comes to evidence. Its not my fault you don't you don't know these things, its yours. There's so much credible evidence on cables and accessories, you could spend the rest of your life and still not go through it all. Also, I've never made any claims about expensive cables being better, and I never will. Price isn't objective, and it can't tell you anything about a cable. Same thing with "sounds better". Its subjective. Its impossible to prove that something sounds better than something else. Its an opinion. I would suggest you do a little research as to how this all works. That way, you can have more relevant discussions.
The misconception about electricity is very well explained in the controversial Veritasium and Science Asylum channels. The Poynting vector equation shows energy is transmitted through the electric and magnetic field from the source, and not in the wires, resulting in the impedance problem with the first transatlantic communication cables, fried up as people thought increasing the voltage would solve noise distortion.
They definitely do make a difference. Without them I struggle to hear anything. I suppose one way of eliminating the effects of conductance and resistance of loudspeaker cables is to use a wireless link.
Harley, this was informative and interesting. But it left a question - what is the gauge of your wire? You refer to it being 6mm thick, but that can't be the diameter of the wire bundle. Also, if the electronics are off to one side, rather than between the speakers, is there a problem if the two wire sets are not the same length? Thanks
Thank you for your kind appreciation and question. Our loudspeaker cable is comprised of a central conducting core which is made up of 80, 0,3mm thick low oxygen copper strands. Which when twisted is about 6mm thick. This equates to an AWG rating of 10. Because the resistance of this cable is extremely low (0.0033 ohms per meter / per cable which only 3,3 ohms for a cable 1km long, then it does not technically make any difference if you use cables of different lengths, as electricity flows roughly at the speed of light! However, most of the time we just accept the fact that on one side there is a surplus of cable. how much difference in length are you proposing?
I think the main issue with this video is that you have tried to over explain stuff. What you should have said is this. "We have built the speakers with quality cabling from speakers to rear terminal and designed them to have an overall flat response across the listening sound frequency range" Then added. "No special high end speaker cables are required. Just good quality multi strand copper wire with adequate outer shielding. You can make these yourself or buy them in our store but they are nothing super special" This would have got the point across much better. But thanks anyway for not selling us a bunch of snake oil about high oxygen low carbon gold plated neutron balanced glow in the dark radiation free speaker cables
When someone tells me that can hear "a difference" between certain cables (without specifics) or that they hear "digital artifacts" (again, without specifying what they mean), I can only take them at their word. When things sound sub-par (a hum or distortion or lifelessness), I've found that improving the cable (or, better yet, improving the insulation around it) can help significantly. Otherwise, I think of an 1970 Firesign Theatre record, "Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers": "That's metaphysically absurd, man. How can I know what you hear?" So, if you hear it, there it is. But your venture into physics at the start of this video brings to mind another question: What's the difference between direct current and alternating current? My murky understanding from long ago is that "current" does not consist of electrons "flowing" solid metal, but that the magnetic field generated around the wire when a circuit is completed is what transmits the electrical power, not the actual electrons themselves. Is that still the case in 2023?
Thanks for your very interesting comment. I hit into a lot of trouble either my explanation of electricity… it seems no matter how I or others explain it, if it doesn’t meet the scenario that others have in their heads then I am open for attack. But yes, the electrons do not flow like water down a pipe, it is generated by moving a wire within a magnetic field. To quote from a physics course on the Internet: “Alternating current (AC) is the flow of electric charge that periodically reverses direction. If the source varies periodically, particularly sinusoidally, the circuit is known as an alternating current circuit.”
No surprise that changing the shape of a speaker voice coil changes how a speaker sounds. That does not prove that changing the shape of a speaker cable will change the sound of a system. There's a big difference between the operating characteristics of a voice coil and a speaker cable.
@@ProffAndy hm... then again, he didn't change anything about the speaker cable. As I understand, they claim to keep it as simple as possible. I mean, this is a product information but he is not advertising anything snake-oily, or did he?
This is a question of psychoacoustics rather than engineering. The testing would have needed to take place under blind, controlled conditions to demonstrate anything. Geddes/Lee proved that the already known phenomenon of audiological masking caused distortion of up to 20% in some frequencies to be completely inaudible. Not saying that the design changes did/didn’t make a difference , although it’s counterintuitive as it would mean hearing the a mechanical difference introduced by microscopic fractions of current within the sea of distortion that the worlds best transducers are. Just saying that the laws of human psychology apply to engineers as much as anyone else, and it’s possible to be a highly competent mechanical engineer like Mark Fenlon and be quite unaware of them.
The only way to find out is connecting different cables at your homeset. I did and there was a lot of difference. The price doesn't matter, your preferences when comparing do. I ended a Dutch handbuild silver cable by a small brand. My set is a NAD M33 connected to B&W 804s speakers.
Dear Savoyradio, the coil was fine for what it was designed for. But because we don’t use any crossovers or filters we needed a slight modification for our cabinets.
About twenty five years ago a pal suggested we use flat silver coated ribbon cable recovered from industrial computer setups they were brilliant with the valve Quad and electrostatics.
People forget that a speaker cable is simply part of an overall circuit comprising amp output stage, speaker cable and drive unit (bass is the most demanding load). All you need to know to select the right cable is speaker minimum impedance, crossover design...dcr of bass inductor, damping factor, amp output impedance and damping factor. The latter depends on output impedance and crossover losses. Any cable so capacitative or inductive that it acts as a filter should be avoided. High inductance will roll off the hf and high capacitance can affect amp stability if poorly designed. Most people hearing big differences between cables are really hearing the results of either poorly matched amp and speakers or instability of the amp. Cable geometry in voicecoils matters as it affects motor efficiency hence t&s parameters but this is simply not true of speaker cable...please dont conflate hearing differences in speaker cables with mythical magical electron scale effects...all cable if similar lcr properties will effect the exact same system response...fact. Far too much tosh spoken by people with little to no real understanding of the subject. I've been a loudspeaker engineer for many years and have grown really weary of hearing sales marketing nonsense spoken or printed about cables.
a speaker cable is simply an electrical conductor - that's it. Crossover design has nothing to do with it, that's after the cable has delivered the signal.
My speakers are vastly different from yours . After much searching I appreciated the engineering approach of Mark Markel of Analysis Plus . Further study of opinions on his different cables I chose his silver-plated copper 12 gauge cables (very short) and they worked wonders on my 4 ohm open baffle speakers . For XLR I chose his single crystal copper cable . The white paper on the website states that geometry was the most significant factor for instantaneous power delivery . Whatever the reason , I am satisfied and look no more .
@@zukispur5493 I may have overreacted. I let one of my friends go to my house and pick up a couple pieces of gear I wasn't using and there was a miscommunication. I double biwire with 2 separate runs of speaker cable for each speaker. He took one pair of the cables and put jumpers to the other set of binding posts. I had no idea he took the cables and when I went to listen to my system a few days later, and as you can imagine, it sounded different. I ran the cables so they can't be seen unless you look behind the speakers. It took me a while to figure out the cables were missing, and I got upset with my friend. I thought he was going to take another pair I had that was made by the same company. But yes, I overreacted.
Yes you are correct. Cables act as a part of the crossover in that they affect the frequency as the signal passes. But the strength of your system is dependent on the weakest link like steal parts on nuts and bolts in the amp, locks, and speaker bindings.
The weakest link in in most cases the acoustics of the room where the playback happens followed by the speakers and in many cases the humar ear. And yes - cables are to just resistors - they can modifiy the signal depending on its frequency. But this effect is very low for low frequencies (and 20 KHz is low in that area). Its a little bit like claiming that the speed your are driving with your car has an impact on the color of a traffic light as you see it.. That is also true (as we know from Albert Einstein) but this effect depends heavily on the speed you are driving - as long as you not have 80% of the speed of light it is so low that you can definitly ignore it)
Too far above my spend-grade. When I had the walls open in our fixer home back in the 1990's, I used 16 gauge stranded copper wire from a 250 foot roll to wire-up the house for stereo. It still works just fine over 25 years later. Should I start to lose sleep about my future stereo listening situation?
Do all the rest first… if you believe that they make a difference. Dit some tests myself and could not hear any difference between a decent cable and a very expensive one. Experiment with the placement of your speakers, it is free and has way more impact than any cable but a faulty one. Instead of spending much money on cables try some room correction systems like Lyngdorf, will have way more impact like cables too… and above all listen to the music and not to the equipment…
Wonder what cables were used to achieve perfect marriage during Sibelius design at 5:13 ? I like to forced expansion banana plug, however, plenty of wire/cross-section snake-oil in the video.
The water pipe analogy would be the same as having the end of the cable connected to ground, having an open pipe is the same as a grounded cable, if you had a stop on the pipe you would have the same analogy as an open circuit cable ! Unfortunately, you have done little to settle the controversy over speaker cables. large cross-sectional area quality speaker cable (12SWG for example) has little inductance or capacitance, and you cannot compare voice coil dynamics and frequency response to an ultra-low impedance cable. Agreed if you compare bell wire with a good-sized quality cable there will be a difference, but spending more than a few dollars per meter on speaker cable is completely pointless, it's all about impedance, as the inductance and capacitance are negligible. Sorry to disagree with you, but I am an electrical engineer with 35 years of experience and I have also been into high-end audio for 20 years, trust me I have tried all sorts of solutions, and there is little basis in spending 100's dollars on cable, you are wasting your money. the majority of claims I have seen and witnessed rely on the placebo effect. My advice use 16-10SWG (1.6-3.25mm) good quality audio cable priced at 1-2 dollars per meter and you will achieve 99.99% of what you are aiming for. Your pre-stages, DAC's. amplifiers and speakers and room! will have far more impact on the sound that you are producing, than cables ever will !
Dear Jamie, thank you for your excellent comments. I absolutely agree with you fir the most part. And I hope I don’t give a different opinion. I wanted to emphasis that everything else is more important that the speaker cables and these should be looked at last. I am completely in line with your view on the cables themselves and our cables are not magic, just high quality, thick cables that we sell at a price that reflects the costs of the limited production run, handmade effort that goes into them. But we are often asked what cables do we recommend and we say thick multi-strand. And some people want to know what cables we used during the development process. I was surprised, however, how some proprietary cables changed the sound and I realised that this could have only occurred by them deliberately changing the capacitance, inductance, and or resistance within the cable.
@@PearlAcoustics thank you for taking the time to reply, it would seem that in general, we agree with each other :-) and please do not get me wrong, I like your channel and your commentary, I was just trying to be heplful with my comment. keep up the good work !
Correction: your old tutor said speed of the water was like CURRENT, voltage being the pressure and pipe diameter giving the resistance to the flow, probably a long time since he told you that, but worth mentioning) I am guessing he used a flat profile wire in the voice coil, the sound improvement was NOT from the profile specifically, but the way it closes the air-gap between magnet and voice coil, better magnetic coupling means less distortion and resonance. Sorry if I gave it away, but its pretty obvious.
🤗 VERY INTERESTING …🧐 proving your NEVER TOO OLD TO LEARN 😊 How electrons work 😅 as opposed to the water hose example we were taught …🤗THANK YOU FOR AN EASY TO UNDERSTAND EXPLANATION 😍😍😍
Thank you. Very kind. Some will say it’s an over simplification, but it’s the general point, I was aiming to make. I remember the first time I heard a similar explanation - and everything made sense to me too! Just passing it on.
The fact that someone can modify the sound of a speaker drive cone by altering the size and/or cross-section of the wire seems reasonable. In that application the wire is forming a coil which will interact with a magnet. The nature of the coil and magnet interaction will directly affect the movement and therefore the sound at the cone. However, a cable that is being used to link the amplifier to the speaker cabinet does not produce sound. It is not part of the driver mechanism. It just makes the circuit. So long as the cable has appropriate electrical conductivity and the connectors make a good connection that is all that is required. I believe you have recognised this in your wise choice of a baseline cable. (By the way the comment of "this is all rubber with no plastic" ... I'm afraid all the "rubber" used in cables is just a soft squidgy grade of plastic!)
Cables. Do they matter? Yes, of course they do.Without cable, your speaker are just an overpriced paperweight. With cables, they make good sound. Do "expensive" cables matter though? Fuck no. Get a cable from amazon basics and as long as you put those cables reasonably and put a reasonable load into them, they will just sound as good as the "expensive" ones. You say you hear a difference though? Good for you then. Data shows otherwise though, so it's 100% in your head or your previous cable is broken.
Great video and I mean no disrespect, but changing the shape of the voice coil wire didn’t change the sound in and of itself. The shape determines how much copper will fit into a given space. A winding of round wire will have small gaps where the turns and layers don’t fully occupy the available space. A square wire will pack tightly together. A rectangular or flat ribbon wire wound on its short edge will allow more turns of wire for a given height and diameter, compared to a square wire. These things affect the performance of the coil in different ways when combined with other variables of the design. So he didn’t improve the speaker by changing the shape of the wire, he did it by using a different shaped wire to create a different specification of voice coil, which is an important factor in any design. And I only mention this to educate and demystify the story, not to shit on your great video or to be a smart ass. The more we know the more we can enjoy music!
Dear Marty. You’re absolutely right and perhaps I should have mentioned the mechanical impacts of the change of profile on the performance of the voice coil. However, I have on good authority from a physicist from the university of Leuven, that indeed the profile of a conductor does have an effect on the clustering of electrons within the conductor and can, in itself impact the pattern of conductivity and thus sound. What I believe you and I are both in agreement on, is that the smallest change in a voice coil can have a big impact on sound. If another physicist wants to come back to challenge the profile theory and our empirical evidence, that would be very interesting to hear.
@@PearlAcoustics I have just discovered your channel and greatly enjoy your down to earth, sometimes contrarian exposition. Electron “clustering” occurs on an ultra micro scale can be ignored on the scale of speaker cables. At a curent of one mA ca 6 times 10 to the power 12 electrons flow in one milli second, more than enough to average out clustering. None the less you came out right with cables and, yes, the shape of cables can influence speaker behaviors but it does so through inductance and capacitance. Keep up the wonderful videos, Sibelius could put more memorable musical themes in a single movement than most composers in a lifetime.
Nice job, Marty McFly. I concur completely. ATC, the loudspeaker manufacturer of much renown, quite openly say that they flatten wire in order to get more turns into a given magnet gap and thus make a stronger motor in their speaker driver. They do the flattening themselves on a machine that (I think - but am not sure) they built themselves, so they can get it exactly how they want it.
The terminations on these cables are the first I've seen that make me think, "now THERE is a truly well-designed cable termination". Are they available for purchase anywhere, or are they a "Pearl Exclusive"?
The only "termination" needed is a tight screw or banana plug on cheap wire. There is ZERO measurable or audible difference between that and all this snake oil. Cable terminations matter at RF and microwave frequencies or on VERY long cable (as in half a mile or more) at audio frequencies.
Cables are passive. They have no “sound”. If a cable sounds brighter than another it simply means it has less capacitance and is letting more of the signal through. Just get a good quality cable with low capacitance and be done with it. One can find these on the cheap. Who in the world would want to “equalize” with a cable. Considering we have about 5 seconds of audio memory to compare cables, without measurements it is a pointless exercise.
I spoke with some one of the Dutch KEF distributor about witch cable to use with my KEF speakers. He told me that the only thing that is important is the electrical resistance of the cable, you can even use cheap electrical cable. Expensive cabels dont do anything to influence the sound, they are just a waste of money.
Thank you sir... you really gave me a good understanding on how speaker cables makes a difference, well detailed and informative information . Thank you
It's great having high fidelity represented as reproducing real musical instruments and not just as reproduces of pop and rock electronics noise.Acoustics engineering tech teaches what real instruments make in terms of acoustic output.
Thanks for your question. We use a different cable internally, (1,5 silver coated, multi-strand copper) mostly for practical reasons. The synergy in our case is maintained because we don’t have any printed circuit boards or electrical components in our enclosures. I hope this answers your question?
My own story on hi-fi , for years I went through many many changes in equipment , turntables amplifiers , cables etc , you know the story , until one day i (finally realised) , I am sitting here listening for... (faults ).. (instead)...of listening to the (music) . Just ENJOY THE MUSIC .
Very true Victor
Victor.. I think as get older we tend to think that we should not be doing this.. but really we are still living & enjoying our music & ear's.. I'm very much into my HiFi & apart from new Stylus & other little toys which are out there to help us look after our music.. the fun is still the same..
@@paulaj2829 Well said Paul AJ. Until we stop breathing...we should enjoy living!
Music is more enjoyable when it is more Hifi, imo. To a certain point at least.
You are totally right Victor. I consider myself a budget audiophile. I stopped spending money and started to enjoy music in the equipment I could afford.
i'm convinced . keep in mind i start every video i watch on any subject with the intent to disagree or be insulting , but he crushed my bad attitude in short order with his sensible and lucid presentation .
Thank you! 😅
everything change the sound your ears ,, your mood ;; your room ;; the way you turn your head ,,, ;; the kind of music ;; the recording ,,, much more than the cables !!!!!
Dear Antoine, I totally agree. As I say, cables are the very last fine tuning. Multi-strand copper is fine for our speakers, we just supply them ready made for anyone that wants them. It’s not magic.
It all begins with the way of connect great hardware with each other...
the strength of the weed, just sayin like
In the 30 years that I have been working in the professional audio universe, one thing has become clear to me: the eye hears more than the ear. 🙂 HiFi is also superstition and I like your way of explaining.
Thanks!
You make an interesting point Rainer. When I am in front of a chamber ensemble, I often listen with my eyes closed. The funny thing is, when a small ensemble group, play together in an acoustically well balanced hall, there is no ‘soundstage’ as such. the sound of the instruments merges together. But with our eyes open, we can see it. What we achieve in recordings, is to create a soundstage that helps us at home ‘see’ the musicians in front of us. Of course it’s an illusion. But it’s an illusion that brings countless hours of joy to me and millions of people all over the world.
@@PearlAcousticstremendous comment. Perception is turtles all the way down!
Dear Rainer! I have heard the same from a Norwegian music producer!
You are totally right! People are psychologically brainwashed!
Been in electronics for over 40 years and wire vs SQ has never been an issue for me. I do like the bit that tightens the banana post in the hole. That's actually simply brilliant.
Thanks. I wish I had invented it! 😉
Hi Harley, Another very illuminating video, love the domino analogy. Where can one get the locking banana plugs from please?
Came here for the comments, love them. Didn’t watch the video yet. I will say, when you look inside a tower speaker ( a have the respectable Rega R7), there is about 4 feet of zip cord ( or something similar) that travels from the binding post to the drivers. To think the 8 feet of external speaker wire makes much difference is pretty funny ( unless it’s very thin aluminum or something). But for some reason my friends still looked upon my good quality but fairly inexpensive cables with disdain. So I made my own, dressed up with nice ends, shrink tubing , and braided sleeves. Thinking I finally invested in higher end cables, They swear it made a difference. But it didn’t. Eyes play tricks on our ears.
Such a simple and no non-sensical approach. I am enjoying watching these series more and more. What a breath of fresh air in the YT audiophile arena.
Thanks - very kind
No ,you should learn about ohm s law! Bob is very poor educated! He does not even know that gold is the best leader!
Hi-Fi is a hobby and a passion. Engineering is essential part by any means. All the materials have their own fundamental specs and porpoise. Yours approach sir is very clear and honest. From this point we start to differ acceptance and understanding between us, audiophile is a world not meant for many.
Apricated.
Only the most audiophile components incorporate porpoise. The cheaper ones often have just ordinary common dolphin products.
Hi-Fi is a hobby and a passion. but audiophile is a mental disorder.
I don't have a problem discussing cables at all. I DO have a problem with "experts" telling me ONLY expensive cables are the best...
Here’s a analogy:
1. A tin roof is not going to be as strong as a concrete roof. Apparently a concrete roof costs more.
2. Similarly good quality interconnects and cables cost more than cheap copper?
As long as the cable is made of Copper and isn't too thin it will sound perfect. A 1€/m cable will sound the same as a 100€/m cable, as long as it fulfills a certain minimum critera.
@@rolandrohde Indeed. I have conducted my own blind test on my hi-fi using Van Damme cable (a good quality, reasonably priced copper cable) and another brand (£12.00 per metre) and I could tell no difference whatsoever.
@I was with your mother totally agree. I was justifying the cost differential between good and bad quality copper. Not debating whether the quality of sound would change significantly to justify the cost.
I once tried a set of Siltech speaker cables against a set of DNM ribbon speaker cables. The "upgrade" too the Siltech cables cost a couple of thousand pounds. It sounded rubbish. I went back too the DNM cable, which (then) cost around £40+ a stereo 2m pair. Fortunately the Siltech were on loan, so no money was lost by me.
The "problem" was the Siltech cables just didn't suit the amp and speakers I was using, but the cheap DNM cables did. the Amp was an old Rogers A75 (remember them?) and a pair of Spendor SP1 speakers.
I have since gone on to a Conrad Johnson MV55 valve amp, a Meridian 808 CD and Spendor S100 speakers. All connected with Van Den Hul interconnects (The Second) and their speaker cables (Revelation)
The old DNM cables now don't suit the system, but I still keep them for old times sake. They would however make the current system sound lacking in weight and clarity if used and somewhat bright, but hey ho. It took a lot of money to find better than them in the end. The old Rogers amp still works too.
Years ago McIntosh used to do 'traveling labs," going from city to city. They would check your old amp if you brought one in. In those labs they would compare various speaker cables and ask listeners to identify when better cables were being used. The listeners did not know which cables were being used.
There was no consistency in selecting between cables - from standard 18 gauge zip cord to "audiophile" cables. This proved to me that the whole issue of "better sound" with expensive cables is marketing - if you can't SEE that the expensive cables are being used, you can't "hear" the difference.
Hi thanks for your comment. I get your point entirely but I want to add that some manufacturers set out to make cables that sound different (and it’s quite easily done) but I personally prefer to keep things clean and just use plain, good quality multi strand copper.
I agree. Any decent cable is probably indistinguishable from another decent or even extraordinarily good cable, but a bad cable could ruin the sound. The balance is to get a decent one at a reasonable price.
Hey I just wanted to say that you seem to really care about your customers. Its a very good trait.
Thank you. We really do care. We like to try and interact with our customers, how we absolutely like to be treated ourselves
Keep it up. It shines through on your videos. I am intrigued by your design philosophy as well on your speakers. Really interesting stuff.
@@jonathanbarrell82 thanks
Harley, you are a fantastic ambassador for hi-fi. Thank you for your video series. I just like how you avoid so much of the hyperbole and hype. Also, the aesthetic of your listening room is fantastic. I think that could be a video.... the importance of aesthetics in hi-fi -- almost as contentious as the effect of cables. To me, since my system is in my living room, the aesthetic is very important. To others, they seem to not care as long as it sounds good. However, I do think it makes a difference. To each their own I guess.
Thank you so much for your kind words. For me, having everything neat and tidy is important. I like to be able to relax when listening to music, and that helps. As does an inspirational painting! Keep your suggestions coming for new topics. I will be making some more after the Christmas break, right now we are busy in the factory, making sure to get our customer orders out in time and I am just finishing the mastering of a new double CD of Belgian classical music. The theme tune for my videos will be featured on it!
TY! Paul....reading through the comments...wow, people can be so harsh and unforgiving. I do not think it is extremely important how right you are or not, who am I to say? But, what I will say is that you bring a perspective that some may not have thought of. Whenever I read or examine anything in front of me, I pull out and remember the important things then, disregard the rest. I follow up by going to other reliable sources, and do the same. I then make reason with myself to make a final decision. No one is perfect. You are only providing your own perspective from your own experiences, and education. TY! for sharing!
Thank you Dungy. I appreciate your comments. I will be making some more videos in the new year.
I have a pair of Epos ES-14 loudspeakers. They are a two driver design with no crossover, only a capacitor across the tweeter. They are 30 year old speakers but can still outperform modern speakers today - where it really counts, in the midrange, vocals and acoustic performances. I believe it's because Robin Marshall custom designed the drivers to work together with the cabinets. Enjoyed this vid.
I have a pair of Epos ES-22 floorstanders coupled to a Quad Elite Series and I agree with everything you say. The amplifier connects directly to the mid driver. You can't better that.
The Robin Marshal designed ES14 and ES11 speakers are wonderful communicators of music , not hi fi.The main driver being directly coupled to the amplifier with a minimal 1 capacitor and 1 resistor to the tweeter , less is more.
I had the EPOS 11’s. AmaZing
I had ES14's Now the Kids are gone I have M22's
I have been using welding cables for my speakers for 30 years works marvelous
😀
You are so right!
I came across your video series recently and have truly enjoyed your approach to hifi audio. Which may be one area of discussion that carries more opinions than it is possible to count. My background is electronics and I too learned the water pipe model reference as a way to understand the dynamics of current and voltage within a circuit. LOL, I think it all started with how the instructor approached his discussion of Ohm's Law. However, what came soon thereafter was a discussion of the physical properties of wire and current flow (electron vs hole flow anyone?) and two distinct properties stuck with me over all of my years (now 65 of them) and those are that a wire is a component, just as a capacitor, resistor, inductor and that all wire has properties of these three values. Those values become more important with the length of the wire and/or the frequency of the signal being carried by the wire. The deep physics behind your simply elegant explanation lives and breaths. My mind immediately went back to two things that I have always considered with cabling. 1) Strong tight physical connections are critical to performance and safety in high current applications. 2) Surface volume of your cable directly influences (for better or worse) its ability to carry a signal unadulterated. Or at least to the extent possible or necessary. Your in house made cables address both of those core parameters along with the separation of the +/- cables to avoid environmental contamination. Quality of the materials is in my opinion a given, considering your customer base and your personal expectations. Listening to your discussions has brought me back to my wayward youth where I gladly traded nearly all of my cash in the pursuit of my audio Holy Grail. Best of continued success.
Thanks Mark for your good wishes, thanks snd excellent contribution to the topic.
I take it at 2), surface volume is a typo and you meant surface area.
@@listeningto8371 yes indeed, area is the correct term. I was enjoying a nice pour of my favorite bourbon when listening to the discussion and had liquid on my mind.
well done. i find it amusing that so many take offence at what you described. Everyone is an expert it seems.
Thanks David, it’s amazing just how many sub-atomic, particle physicists there are out there! 😉
All views welcome as long as they are respectful and genuinely enquiring.
Best wishes, Harley
Having worked in electronics for 40 years, the biggest problem I have to overcome, is getting my ears to work correctly.
I think you’re not alone!
Very good!
An absolutely brilliant policy. Offer natural and transparent, define it and support your customers with education!
Thank you!
I’m really enjoing your video. Just a right amount of audiophiliac enthusiasm, competence in what you are talking about and simplicity!
Thank you! Very kind
Rubber sleeve coated with more rubber...so you can imagine you can do long runs.
Rubber doesn't insulate against interference.
What a crock! Lol, just use speak on, or xlr cheap and far superior. This guy is such a sales guy with subpar knowledge about basic electronics and principles
It certainly does not make me want to ever consider any of the speakers he's been involved in 🤣
Thank you Harley, at the end you said what I was waiting to hear," that you can have those speaker cables forever" I have been told by friends that my speaker cables should be changed,as they are around 8 years old but I dont hear a difference. As a matter of interest they are EAR Yoshinos and I love the sound of those. Thanks once again.
Your problem is not sonical but psychological!
Based on the numerous opinions expressed in the comments below and elsewhere, starting off your video by saying that cables are probably the most contentious topic was spot on.
I understood the gist of your video to be: experiment yourself and make up your own mind.
I don't understand people getting angry about it. If one person thinks they make a difference, then great! If another person thinks that they don't make a difference, then just as great!
Thank you!
You are right! As long as the hifi doctor does not prescribe snake oil poison!
Indeed! People should discuss cables to reach audio nirvana!
Electrons do not bash into each other, in some kind of microscopic Newton's Cradle manner.
There is such a thing as electron drift velocity - it's dependent on current and also wire diameter but a typical figure is about a tenth of a millimetre per second.
Energy is delivered through a conductive material by dint of an electromagnetic field. A conductive material is that in which such a field can exist. That's how transformers are able to energise a secondary coil (or multiple secondaries) even though the coils are insulated from each other.
I don't like being a party pooper, but the information presented here regarding the fundamentals of electricity flow simply isn't correct.
And it is an AC not a DC signal too which is sent to the speakers.
@@MoltenJules Good point, Julian - I hadn't considered that electrons would need to 'unbash' each other as well as bash into each other. I'm not disappointed for me, but for the people who might believe this stuff...
I guess Paul Drude was an idiot. Thanks keyboard warrior.
@@kamadeva1 What, specifically, did Drude say that demonstrates that electrical flow is caused by an electron bashing into the next?
of course not...these guys all 'preach' in the same manner......it is as if they have to translate their 'brilliance' into a lower level language for us mere mortals. this guy, and all of the other posers, are full of BS.
How do we know how electrons move in a cable by using an electron microscope??
and the electron microscope is a type of electronic equipment used to examine visually not sure about any ability to make a measurement
@@MrMadvoter1 Don't worry. I know what an electron microscope does. I have worked with a TEM.
It was meant to be cynical 🙂
@@Richard-bq3ni It's a special electron microscope. Made with polycaps and oxygen-free silver cables ! The electrons have no choice but to declare their whereabouts to whomever is watching 😂
I do enjoy hearing the cod science behind justifying ridiculous prices for equipment including cables. So easy to do a scientific comparison and a blind test. These have been done many times and prove there's no difference ( unless you use damaged cables or wet string ). I can't wait to hear his justification for ridiculously priced digital interconnects. The only advice you need is "if you can't hear the difference, don't pay the difference!"
@I was with your mother Digital signal cables make a difference? How? It's a digital signal with error correction. It's binary. Many tests have been done PROVING there's no difference. People are being ripped off.
@@SuperMiloBass I agree. Other than a total crap cable no difference. I just a $700 USB 2.0 cable, and the reviewer claimed better bass response. Same with copper vs silver for USB cables.
You have to use cable risers that only cost 3,000usd to awaken the electrons inside those 10,000usd and then you also have to let it burn in for a couple hundred hours.
@@automachinehead I've realised my mistake and am desperately trying to spend my way out of it.
guess you've never had a wagyu hamburger, have you.... 200 bucks. looks like a 1 dollar burger, but it does taste quite a bit better than the 1 dollar burger... this video is a cook explaining a recipe, for your ears. up to us if we try out his recipe ;-)
I owned accuphase ASLC-30 , around 2.5k new. I had luck since i got them with my loudspeakers for free. After one year of listening i decidet to test finally cables. The end of my own testing was that i sold them for 1k bought some forn 15 usd and had a great vacaction. Not one difference i was able to detect. That was around 7 years ago. Today i would like to have them back just for a better feeling :) . Like your vids.
Exactly right. His explanation of the transmission of audio down the cable is weird. He says electrons clump together. How's that? They are negatively charged, they repel each other.
Cables can make a difference. A high resistance, (long and thin) cable with a low impedance speaker will reduce the damping of the system which can change the low frequency response, but if the cable is less than the 10% of the combined resistance of the amplifier and speaker you won't tell the difference. Generally well designed amplifiers have output resistance of 10 to twenty times less than the nominal speaker impedance, so the speaker resistance is usually the dominant factor.
Figure 8 cables usually have an inter conductor capacitance of 60 pF per meter so 5 meters will be 300pf. Assuming the amplifier output impedance at 20 kHz is less than 1 ohm the nominal cutoff frequency of the cable (-3dB) point will be 500 mega Hz ;way over the maximum audio range.
Here is the best explanation of "current flow" in an electrical circuit.
my guess is that by changing the shape of the voice coil wire, your driver supplier has improved the efficiency while shifting the RLC characteristics of it, thus changing the inevitable resonance peaks in a way the shrillness between 2 and 4 kHz found itself to be tamed to acceptable levels
Most likely. Immediately making an analogy between this and speaker cables at 7:49 is quite a leap...
I think your explanation is fantastic it was a pleasure listening to it I wish other companies that bash either speakers or cables would listen to your presentation
Thank you Bob, much appreciated
Ignorant bob has not understood that gold is a better leader than silver and copper! Even children here in Norway know that!
Yes, the reviewer is sadly doing the same!
As you explained, there is a lot of difficulty in reaching a balance between the main variables in a loudspeaker cable that make for a believable sound at the listening position. A lot of what we get out depends on the magnetic field the alternating signal current generates, alternating the positions of the electrons inside the metallic crystals in the wire filaments of the cable.
Then, it’s a consideration of how those myriad magnetic fields in each metallic crystal interact with the magnetic fields in adjacent crystals.
The magnetic fields do work on each other and together generate a general magnetic field around the wire that moves any nearby electrons too and, according to how any electron was moving when it met the change in its local magnetic field, electron movements can actually be antithetical to transmission of the signal that is modulating the electrons’ positions.
The wire ends up as a system where the signal current modulating magnetic fields creates many more magnetic fields which induce many more different currents. The longer the wire gets the more entropic the movements until the modulation is finally masked and the signal is no longer discernible. The system is not at all simple or pure in reality and, only a proportion of the intended signal remains to do useful work at the drive unit, as a magnetic field around the voice coil. The wire is also an aerial and creates part of a tuned circuit that can take radio frequencies back into the amplifier.
I like how you addressed the problem by creating a reference cable to act as a known starting position for Sibelius’ neutrality. Cables behave predictably as part of the system they’re in.
Thank you for your comment and understanding as to why we wanted to build a reference point. It's appreciated.
Yes as far as I have learned to date, to really understand why cables do matter, you’d need a degree as a physicist. The only thing to me that matters is though, that it has a tremendous impact on how the system acts and therefor creating the illusion of something sounding „right“ or „real“. Thanks for the infos
@@dudemastermaster8944 you’re welcome!
When PMC were doing demo's of the BB5/XB5 active systems with full Bryston amplification, it was rather refreshing to see the cables they used were basic OFC copper 79 strand.
This was some years back, and to this day is one of the most memorable speaker/amplification systems I have heard, front end was DSD recordings from a PC and redbook CD from an Arcam CD player.
Absolutely what we recommend too. We use 80 strand… 😀
Thank your for the explanation. Your logical conclusion will save quite some money for those of who were considering to invest in expensive cables or clear the “what if” doubts from the minds of those who weren’t. 👍
Thanks.
Truth is that well engineered speaker cables providing excellent resistive conductivity and excellent impedance concerning effects of inductance and capacitance can easily output a signal to your speaker that is well above the resolving qualities of your hearing when everything else is of high quality. Of course those companies making insane margins on speaker cables never want to show a proper null test proving their signal transfer improvements...because they know science will fail for them. Don't waste US$1000s on speaker cables costing US$10s to produce.
@@ThinkingBetter Can you give an example of a cable that sells for over $1000 but only costs $10 to make? I've never seen anything like that.
Do not waste your money on overprized cables!
would have been nice to see some measurements 0,15 and 30 degrees on the sibelius since it´s not frequencu corrected so how does it take care of the baffle step.
Water analogy- diameter of pipe = resistance of cable, smaller pipe = higher resistance.
Water pressure differential- voltage, higher pressure difference = higher voltage
Speed of water through pipe- amps flowing through a wire.
Start the water moving, it starts through the whole pipe even though the water molecules are only moving slowly, they start moving together throughout the pipe, same with electrons, they move slowly but they all start together, well, at the speed of light.
Thank u so much sir. Im so glad i found you. You seem so sincere not trying to sell anything but merely enlighting people such as myself with love for sound but ignorant & tiered of spending money on tryel & error in order to aquire the tone desired without spending fortunes from false salesmen. ✌️🙏 thank you sir.
You’re very welcome. Enjoy the music!
The analogy with voltage and speed is incorrect and the electrons do not "bash" into each other.. wtf
I agree and have just written a comment to that effect.
Hard to imagine anyone who knows anything about electricity making that statement.
@@Scottlp2 It's about as close to reality as saying that petrol engines work by the pistons being pushed by the flatulence of little red demons that live inside and love to drink petrol.
It is even the opposite. Electron repel eachother since they have all have negative charge.
What actually happens:
The electrons jump from the shell of one copper atom to the shell of another one where a "hole" has been created because that atom also had an electron that has jumped.
The electrons are moving from - to +
The "holes" is what we call the current, and move from + to -
Cables do have an effect on the current that they are carrying.
There is resistance, capacitance and inductance and skin effect.
The capacitance and inductance in a normal speaker cable are so low, you can just ignore it for audio frequencies. At most, it will attenuate higher frequencies, but never to the extend that it will be audible. This is an educated guess, I did not take the time to calculate this.
The resistance just attenuates the signal, and doesn't change the sound. The volume knob will compensate for this.
Skinn effect again can have a very small impact on the highest frequencies, but virtually inaudible. Audioholics have some calculations on their site for sure.
Of course a speaker voice coil can change the sound. It is a coil, so a high inductance, and together with the filter, I guess you can create an unwanted resonance frequency.
@@Richard-bq3ni thank you for this excellent comment. It adds greatly to the quality of the debate. The problem in all these talks is to which level one should explain things. I am not a physicist but I did refer to one. I even contemplated bringing one into the short video but I felt it unnecessary. Your comment has added the value I was looking for. But of course it is very possible that someone will now challenge it.
I've built and sold custom speakers for 30-35 years, and when it came to building my own speakers, put away flat ribbons, woven, and networked cables, and voiced them to work best for me with 16 gauge figure 8 speaker wire. When I want playback I like better, I'll change an active component in the signal chain, and never worry about wires again.
I do like Mark Audio stuff and still have some, as well as some early EJ Jordan drivers I think he collaborated on.
Thanks for your enlightening comment. A good approach!
Saying that electric current actually consists of electrons 'bashing' into each other doesn't explain why electrons don't pour our out of the free end of a wire if you connect the other end to a battery. The reason electrons don't pour out is because there's no difference in electrical 'pressure' along the wire until a complete circuit is made, and the circuit contains a battery (or equivalent). You need the (electrical) pressure gradient along the wire to make the electrons flow, just as the dishwasher hose needs a pressure difference between the ends of the hose to make the water flow.
In some ways analogy with water isn't as ridiculous as suggested here, although of course it's imperfect. The electrons in a metal such as copper can be divided into two sorts: ones attached to particular copper atoms, and others that are dissociated from atoms and free to move. The dissociated ones, being mobile on the large scale, carry the current. The dissociated electrons are somewhat like an incompressible liquid in the sense that they don't clump together in particular places (at least, not at the frequencies encountered in audio).
Thanks for your contribution to this complicated process, much appreciated
I found this really interesting thank you.
I would just also point out that a set of loudspeaker cables are an inductor, a resistor and a capacitor. These effects may be more important than the grouping of electrons (or maybe I am wrong). I use standard UK twin and earth for loudspeaker cable. I was going with the idea that current carrying capacity was important. It sounds good to me.
I know some people will disagree here, but try it out... fit twin & earth and see what you think of the sound.
Absolutely correct. Your solution is very cost effective and sensible.
Thank you for the video. I'm thinking of making some speaker cables for myself and, sifting through various diy forums, I came to the conclusion that ideally the positive and the negative wires should be twisted around one another and not separated due to electromagnetic interference. Would love to hear your opinion on the matter. Cheers.
Hi, I don’t want to get into fights with anyone. All I can say is separated cables work best for us. There’s a lot of science and a lot of pseudo science. I like to listen to the likes of Colin Wonfor and many others. At the end of the day try, compare and decide for yourself. I hope this helps?
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you for a prompt response. I was just curious and certainly wasn't looking to pick a fight. As we are probably going to end it here, I just wanted to attach a link to a video that might be of interest to you and/or anyone who reads this: th-cam.com/video/P7WfY9P2uNY/w-d-xo.html
Best regards, J.
@@janezzumer1639 Woops! I didn’t mean a fight with you but with other experts. Thanks for the link. It’s always interesting to keep ones opinions open
@@janezzumer1639 Hello Janez. I heartily recommend making your own speaker cables (in fact I recommend making all your own equipment, but one step at a time, eh?).
Wires being twisted around each other are very common in internal wiring in audio equipment and in network/telecoms cabling too, but less common with hi-fi loudspeaker cables, as I'm sure you've noticed.
One reason wires are twisted in small signal carrying wires inside communications equipment is mainly to make sure that any electromagnetic field that impinges upon the twisted pair induces a potential into each part equally - so the signal, which is the difference between them remains unaffected. The 'complementary' reason for the twisting is so that one signal wire can't put it's field onto an outside component all on its own without it's 'buddy' being there to cancel it out.
There's a third reason for twisting, due to the shape, but before I mention that, so far I've only been thinking of small signal conductors - like inside a preamp or the input wiring of a power amp. Twisting wires is really important here because any unwanted signal that gets induced onto such wires is just about to get amplified along with the wanted signal.
Speaker cables come after the amplification has occurred, and so the signal they carry is much bigger and noise that is induced in them would represent a much smaller fraction of the wanted signal (higher signal/noise ratio). So it's less important/necessary to twist speaker wires together (although as the very effective video you linked to demonstrates, the speaker wires themselves could perhaps put noise onto something else if they're separated).
The third reason for twisting the cables is that once twisted, they are no longer parallel to each other, so the signal in one wire isn't trying to induce a signal in it's counterpart. They're actually 'constantly' crossing each other at an angle (it's hard [for me, maybe not you] to visualise but it's similar to being able to see that an orbiting body like the ISS is constantly 'falling' around the Earth, the two conductors are similarly constantly crossing at an angle). Having said that, the central spacer section in the insulation on many speaker cables (that give it the 0-0 cross section) will separate the conductors enough to lower their effect on each other significantly.
I suspect the reason most manufacturers make speaker cables in parallel runs is that it takes less raw material to get from A to B if you go in a straight line (the Roman road concept) and twisted cables need a longer length of wire. Cable manufacturers are in the business of turning cheap(-ish) metal strands into much-more-cash-than-it's-worth.
You could perhaps make your own cables as a parallel pair to start with, then twist them after a while as a Mark 2 version - I used a factor of 1.6 times the length I wanted the final twisted end-product to be when buying my 'raw' wire for my own speaker cables. In hindsight that was probably a bit generous, but I couldn't run the risk of them being too short...
Keep your terminations clean and tidy at each end, good luck, and enjoy... :D
[Edit: restore a chunk of a sentence in the middle that somehow disappeared]
@@HandbrakeBiscuit Thank you for taking the time and providing me (and others) with such a detailed explanation. The cables I use at the moment are made of 13 AWG OF copper speaker wires that run in parallel and are terminated with banana plugs. After reading your reply (twice:), I certainly see no reason not to pull the wires apart, twist them and use some classy Techflex sleeving to finish it all off. Cheers! J.
I ran 6.5 meters of 230 volts 3 amp electric cable behind my coving for wall-mounted speakers 15 years ago because it's all I had at the time, I'm still using it to power cheap Wharfedale Diamonds 9.1 fifteen years later, no way am I pulling the coving down to replace it.
That cable has been doing a fine job running my budget setup...All sorts of formats at high/med quality from my PC through an Onkyo TX-SR444 AV receiver; sometimes using a little buffer tube amp.
I gave up being pedantic almost from the very start because my room and layout is probably one of the worst to do it anywhere near right. Someday I plan to change all that but hey, I still manage to enjoy music through what I have without feeling sorry for myself, and; hopefully, when I can upgrade, I will feel and hear the difference I hope : )
I do enjoy watching and learning about what I'm missing though, yeah, I must be a glutton for punishment.
I hope you lot can all enjoy your much better equipment now knowing that some ( like myself ) aren't quite living the dream just yet but are still content ❤
Great comment. It all makes perfect sense to me! Convenience and practicality are important, but never as important as the music! I don’t find your situation strange. I enjoy looking at channels about classic cars. I’ll never change mine but it’s nice to dream and get involved in conversations that will never lead to anything.
@@PearlAcoustics I guess dreams are more important than some would believe or we wouldn't have them, Harley.
I'll be checking out more of your videos, I'm sure I'll learn something.
Good for you mate,There is more BS in hi-fi than we need to think about, keep trucking!!!
@@rogerjames6956 Thank you Roger! You too!
I believe that speaker cable can make a difference. However, the reason is not the one that most people presume. Usually the difference is quite subtle, which leads to arguments. It can also be inconsistent, which leads to all sorts of mysticism about matching and tuning by ear etc. I suspect that the root cause of all this is in amplifier design and the fact a speaker cable is not simply a low resistance connection between amp and speaker terminals but also adds in some inductance and capacitance that appear across the amplifier terminals along with the speaker load.
I once had two amplifiers I was playing around with and I also had two pairs of speakers and two lots of cable. Rather than getting a subtle difference when trying different permutations, I got obvious gross misbehaviour of one amp with one cable that was fine with the other amp and vice-versa. Each amp was obviously distorting with one cable while sounding very good with the other. The differences were opposite and not subtle. This made me believe that in other circumstances there could be real but more subtle differences experienced by people swapping cables around and one person's great cable could be disappointing for another person.
One speaker pair was my very good main set only a few meters from the amplifiers in the living room. The other pair were quite a bit further away in another room and quite good but nothing special - the kitchen speakers. I had some ordinary figure 8 lamp flex as the speaker cable for the remote set and I had some fancy, silver-coated, audiophile-branded cable for the shorter run to the main speakers.
The figure 8 cable had the two conductors running close and parallel to each for a long distance. This made the cable also a capacitor across the amplifier terminals. One amp was stable into that and the other wasn't. The amp that had a problem with a long run of figure 8 lamp flex was fine with a shorter run of the same stuff.
The audiophile cable was completely separate single conductor cables that ran along with quite a bit of separation between them - little capacitance but adding some series inductance (even a straight wire has some inductance). The other amplifier did not like seeing that load but was fine with any amount of figure 8.
The fix was quite easy. I put a Zobel network between the speaker terminal and the start of the cable. A zobel is essentially a simple passive crossover such as one might have in a 2-way speaker between tweeter and woofer except that the crossover frequency is set well above 20kHz. The low pass side sends all the audio frequencies to the speaker while the high pass side gives ultrasonic frequencies a simple 8 ohm resistor as the load. The amps sees a more well-behaved load. Many amplifiers have such a network built in but some don't, perhaps to give better looking specs such as very wide bandwidth, well beyond the audio range. A better design, as many have, would be to add this simple network on the output inside the amp, ensure that the amp has a known, designed load at ultrasonic frequencies and it would be more immune to differences of cable or even quirky speaker loads.
Dear Peter, thanks for your contribution to the topic. Much appreciated
You, Sir, are a lecturer that I could listen to for hours without losing attention.
Great explanation!
Thank you Paulius. Much appreciated
You are brave to post this video. I would just say I respectfully disagree and that a functioning cable does not sound different from each other. Also, mechanically changing the shape of the voice coil will affect resonance but isn't really anything to do with cables or conductance. Thanks for the video though and I like your presentation style.
I'm glad that you presented this topic quiet honestly. It is a topic that can be discussed forever. My question is when you mention pure copper Is it the OFC Copper or the 6N
99.9999% Copper ?
Hi Walter, thank you for your comment and kind words. In the case of our cables we looked more at the resistance per Km rather than the purity of the copper. I know that’s not how many HiFi cable manufactures see it but we stick to the standard international terms. I know it’s not the same thing but if you are interested the resistance of our cable it 0,78 ohms per Km.
What we find important is how it sounds and in our case we just use it to form a ‘standard’ benchmark by which we can compare production with each other. And happen to like what we hear! Hoping this helps?
Quite nice video. Love to see that you do not need those ‚multiply woven, multi layer, oxygene-free, silver, blabla,...“ cables.
I drive my speakers from a legendary Tannoy TA600 power amp via thick PA-cables from Klotz, connected to the amp via Speakon connectors - all perfect!
Absolutely! Good enough 😉
Contentious is exactly the right adjective with regard to the subject of this video. Most of those, men or women, who can afford an „ultra expensive“ Hi-Fi system are older, at least over 50 years old. These are people who have made it in life and wish to enjoy the fruits of their former toils. The issue here however is that most of those over 50 don’t have perfect hearing. I would defy anyone over that age to tell me that they can hear all the audio nuances delivered by such systems and cables. I am convinced that this world of audiophiles is full of people who convince, either themselves, or be convinced by others, that „this“ listening experience is because of A, B, C, D or …………. . I understand your explanation, it makes absolute sense, and to be honest, I wish I at my age, 66, could hear the difference. Last year, I went to a showroom full of mega expensive systems. I have some knowledge of speaker systems, amplifiers, pre-amps etc. But, is it worth all that money? I can hear all you audiophiles now, laughing, joking at my comments. But really.:……………
Thank you so much for your comment and appreciation. Like all hobbies, from grinding coffee to fishing and indeed to HiFi there are always those will go to extremes to convince themselves and others, that their purchases make sense. The important point for me, at least, is if they enjoy what they purchase. If they get a sense of satisfaction… and that the manufacturer is totally sincere and honest with themselves and their customers. At the end it’s about enjoying the music, even if one’s hearing isn’t what it used to be. The most critical area for music appreciation is in the mid range and upper mids. Luckily, aging does not affect those bands too much.
@@PearlAcoustics fair comment 👍
@@robertw.1499 🙏👍
Well there you are 10 AWG copper , the sensible choice, given that there has never been any blind test that demonstrated any difference whatsover between cables .
I recently discovered your channel doing research about setting about to create a hifi system. I enjoy these videos very much but I have to say your voice sounds exactly like Peter Frampton! 😊
😉
For 40 years of being a audiophile, all I know the best cable is the best match between the connected machine, type of music and the taste of the listener. It was never about price.
Totally aligned. If it works, it works.
I will tell you a secret... in our listening room we have had quite a few different rca cables, from very expensive (gifts from people wanting reviews to very cheap ones, including ones we bought ourselves, and the ones I like the most are ‘Amazon Basics’ they are very smooth sounding and yet still detailed. I think they were less than 10EUR a pair
The type of music cannot possibly affect a cables performance, or any other component in an audio system. The choice of music is subjective and purely in the mind of the listener. A good component or system is by definition capable of achieving accurate reproduction, regardless of the input signal. If a component or system is perceived as being musically inaccurate, it will be with all and any music it reproduces. Subjectively a listener may tolerate this inaccuracy or even be unaware of it, nevertheless the system or component cannot possibly alter it's performance depending on the nature of the signal. A music signal has only three components; Frequency, amplitude and phase, which have absolute values at any given moment, if we imagine an audio system as a measurement device, the potential for error given that these values are constantly changing is clearly enormous.
@@jerrypartington3650 The electrical properties of the conductors may impart some analogue change to the electrical properties of the voltage signal representing the audio frequencies, but I'd in my experience it would seem that at the distances and gauges we're talking about they would be so small as to be undiscernible. If there is a more noticeable change depending on cabling used, something else is going on.
Makes sense. What I did not hear is any comment on the relationship between the two conductors. IMHO it makes a difference if they are twisted vs running in parallel a few inches apart. I heard you mention that the hookup inside the box runs a couple inches apart.
I had great success with simple diy interconnects using 24awe wires separated by 1/2 an inch. I thought why not the same with speaker cables. For no good reason I ran the two conductors 1" apart. They were good but had some sound characteristics I did not like. I changed to lots of twisted pairs and sound was different. An improvement to my ear. I was surprised you found no worries about the relationship between the two conductors.
I find twisting the conductors makes a big difference (improvement) when running over a longer distance. For example 4 cad 5 E cables platted together and then run per terminal. Works extremely well. But like all these things you need to try it to see. Best wishes
@@PearlAcoustics Just a little note: CAT5 (and higher) are designed for frequencies 350MHz to around 1GHz. And that's why they are twisted so tightly. For an audio signal there is no need for that. An old fashion CAT3 (twisted pair telephone cable) will do just fine. The twist count in those cables is high enough to eliminate potential ingress from power grid (50 - 60Hz), crosstalk and the frequency response is more than enough for 20 to 25k Hz audio signal.
The only thing is the current. So you have to put together few CAT cables to make large enough cross section area for caring the load. For ex. for a ~100W RMS amp - speaker system we need a speakers cable able to carry almost 4A of current. That be a wire similar to 10 AWG, which has cross section around 3.3mm^2. CAT cables are made of 22 to 26 AWG wires (0.4mm in diameter / 0.5mm^2). Hence we need 7 of those wires to make a 3.3mm^2 cross section. So basically we need 2 CAT5E cables (8 wires in each) to do the job 😉
best regards TJ
@@tjblues01 absolutely. Thanks for your comment snd calculations. I mention CAT cable because it is readily available, cheap, of high quality and you can simply double it up to get the cross section of copper you require.
@@PearlAcoustics Totally agree 👍Only reason why I go with "proper" speaker cables is aesthetics. They just look better than home made ones. But if you have a way to hide them... 😉
What does the voice coil have to do with the question of whether interconnect cables make a difference? That's clearly a false correlation.
he mistook the voice coil change (mechanical shape change, which affects resonance etc) with electrical change. big false correlation. from then on, it was all downhill
Приятель, искал твой комент. С одной стороны,даже хорошо, что в мире полно дураков, готовых платить за маркетинг, просто за дизайн люди не хотят платить, им нужны понты! Действительно, форма катушки важна ибо меняет индукцию. меняется зазор в магните. Именно это важно в дизайне акустики. НО ЭТО НЕ ИМЕЕТ НИКАКОГО отношения к серебрянным кабелям. Всего 2 лайка. нужно принять что мир полон дураков и просто делать на них бабки!
I think he was only trying to make a general point that seemingly innocuous changes can indeed make a surprisingly and significant difference in changing what was once mundane and ordinary into something superior. Instead of the voice coil example I suppose he could have said he could got better gas mileage when he changed the tread design on his car tires, or simply rotated the tires. Moral of the story or point made, he starts his speaker cable talk. Obviously there is no correlation between tires/gas mileage and interconnects or speaker cables, just making the point that small changes anywhere (tires, voice coils, cables, or whatever) can yield beneficial results. That's my take on what he was saying anyway, and not so much about what tire tread (or a voice coil) has to do directly with speaker cables.
He gave an example of how small changes in material and composition can have unexpectedly noticable outcomes.
Then he he proceeds to explain that the speaker cables are as simple as possible.
He is more or less advertising anti-snake-oil and the people in the comments are like "gotcha - snake oil!"
Thanks Harley, that makes so much sense. I really enjoy your posts!! Cheers and best regards 🙏
My pleasure! Thank you for your feedback
A full range driver with no Baffle Step, or Impedance Compensation. I would think with a set up like that, speaker cables would be the least of your worries.
Where do you get your copper cable? If I heard correctly, you said there are 80 strands wrapped in rubber. In the USA on internet I have not found any copper wire described in this manner. Only gauge is given and it seems PVC plastic is the wrapper of choice with rare mention of silicone. Should contact with plastic be avoided? Thank you.
It’s not easy to find and we have to buy it from a specialist supplier in lengths of minimum 1km. If you want some cable without connectors, we can make you a price. Please contact us via the website. Hope this helps?
There are four main factors that affect speaker cables:
The material of the conductor,
Resistance, inductance, capacitance. minimize these as much as possible and you’ll have a great sounding cable. Multi strand OCC Copper sounds wonderful.
Youngster in fun king move
Young
You missed the dielectric completely. I don't normally wade into this, but since the clip is made by a 'trade specialist' I'm going to. *The* determinig factors for 'transmission of electricity' are Maxwell's equations and the Poynting vector. Understand those and you know why cables matter. For better or worse depends, but matter it does;
@@landiepete again a "normal" monoprice cable will measure as good as any of those snake oil cables so stop trying to justify that nonsense.
@@landiepete Sure. And the Maxwell equations will also tell you at which frequency the dielectric properties will contribute notably or barely. And this Frequency is... ? Please enlighten us.
@@landiepete All of that is irrelevant at audio frequencies. All that matters is resistance.
Dear Harley,
Just a little question. How about using short speaker cables and place the power amp between the speakers and use long signal cables instead?
(Balanced signal cables)
Hi, thanks for your question. In fact that’s what basically happens with active studio monitors. Personally, I don’t see a challenge with loudspeaker cables, in as much as the impact on sound with them is very, very small (unless a cable manufacturer deliberately sets out to bring a change about). So as long as one uses a sensible gauge and good quality copper the usual lengths used in domestic situations is not an issue. But your solution is valid, none the less.
Countless blindtests showed that good standard cables are not distinguishable from the 1000 € High End Cables... the results were always what would have been the mathematical outcome of guesswork . I bought some thicker copper cables because they do look better :-) That's all.
Some people listen with their eyes and not their ears.
True, 2.5mm solid copper power cable will be adequate for any home setup.
Tests have proved that you are right!
dear David! You are right! Hifi experts and vine experts are the same. They are cowards because they do not dare to take part in blind tests!
Finally an intelligent man! I have tormented hifi fanatics by asking why they do not use pure gold!?
Thanks Harley, after watching your presentation I'll probably invest in, as budget allows, something other than the standard interconnects & speaker cables.
That can be a good idea. But don’t go mad. There’s no need to spend a fortune!
@@PearlAcoustics or diy using quality parts, much cheaper that way
Thank you for another interesting video, Harley. My understanding of electron conduction is a bit more similar to Richard's below, however, so I'll have to forgive that part.
To return to your water pipe analogy, voltage is more like water pressure and current is more like flow. Electrons are in a probability cloud in probable energy states like Bohr's model's 'shells'. As they are wave/particles with a negative charge they do repel each other. However the 'electron cloud' has a net drift from - to + terminal as the immediate potential difference pressurizes them to do so. The more electrons that arrive in parallel or within infinitesimal time intervals, the higher the perceived current. The actual physical speed or net drift of the electron cloud is surprisingly low - about one tenth of a millimeter per second - but of course, the propagation of pressure is near (50%-99%) the speed of light (what we call the speed of conduction). Here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity is quite a nice article describing electron drift and conduction.
In a speaker cable, however, we have alternating current, so it's a bit like watching people in a pool with a wave machine - one moment they are all going one way then as the wave reverses and they all go the other way. The people move a little bit but NOT at the speed of the wave. At the end of the day, electrons will not have drifted at all. So to refine our water pipe analogy - think of it as a transparent pipe containing smoke or fog. The higher the voltage the denser the fog; the higher the current, the more fog particles exit the pipe per second. If the hole at the end is small (high resistance), few particles will exIt per second. If the hole is big (low resistance) many fog particles will exit (high current). I hope this turned physics into something you can more easily picture - physics isn't always intuitive and rarely easy to visualize. This model is also flawed but is a little bit better, IMHO.
Conducting cables are in fact transmission lines and have resistance, capacitance and inductance all of their own - all of those things that you wanted to leave out by having no crossover!
Here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegrapher%27s_equations is an excellent animated diagram illustrating exactly what I meant about electrons in a transmission line.
As you can see, _everything_ has an influence and the old Quad phrase 'a piece of straight wire with gain' would even have resistance, inductance and capacitance of its own. Sometimes you just can't win! This is exactly where the experience of a designer is paramount, because it's all about making informed feats of balancing and matching one component to another.
All the best from Switzerland, Rob
Dear Rob this is fantastic! A really great contribution to the comments. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this input with us all. No doubt the discussions and debates will continue. It seems I kicked something off here! 😉
Diy‘ed my own cables using high quality cables and connectors, very happy with the result
for transmission line effects to take place you would have to have a cable several kilometres long!!
the solution to the problem you described with the driver and the shape of the conductor for the coil might not have been purely electrical as you alluded but also mechanical or purely mechanical in nature.
Indeed Dimitrios, that could also be true. But when a person who has been designing voice coils snd transducers for decades, and who makes such an incredible product - then I tend to take his opinion as gospel. Who knows? The important thing is - it made a big difference. And if you ever come to visit us. I can demonstrate silver plated loudspeaker cables versus twisted copper. I am sure you’ll hear a difference. Strange things these.
@@PearlAcoustics thank you for responding. i think it is important to know the answer to critical questions and in the case of technology and audio the proper 'marriage' of good knowledge of psycho-acoustics (the subjective part) and objective laboratory measurements never disappoints. i appreciate your invitation and i wish you the best.
I have a reasonable quality collection of components and like many, it's tough to get the sound exactly how one prefers it. I have tried a few different brands of interconnects and speaker cables over the years, and with higher end, more sensitive equipment, cables make an obvious difference to the sound due to capacitance, inductance etc that makes components react differently to each other. It's mostly a crap-shoot getting the right mix, but when you do it's certainly night and day and I used to be the guy that laughed at people that praised the cable voodoo. It's more science than fiction, and it's doesn't necessarily take expensive cabling to get the desired effect as I recently found out.
With respect, that makes exactly no sense and has never been proved. So if you did indeed heard difference (which no one ever proved), no engineer (no electric engineer nor sound engineer, no music producer for that matter) could make sense of what you heard and why. So how would someone come up with a 'technology' that is making clear changes in sound quality, if it is impossible to conceive it nor to test it? It really must be magician working at it. Would be interesting to wonder how come audio component are so sensitive that they produce impossible things to measure nor explain but video doesnt have any of those issues. Nor does the equipment at the ER, or in a science lab in a university. Only your speakers for your hears. Wild. Anyway, if you enjoy your speakers, that is all that matter!
Makes no logical sense mate, but even showing you mathematical proof I guess you wont believe it, because logic doesnt really come into these arguments, your eyes and belief shapes your perception of what you hear...true fact.
@@healthylifestyle3427 Good reply, I think all electrical/electronic engineers that understand ohms law, knows speaker cables are unimportant (as long as you get the right awg), but unfortunately its impossible to convince those that have no interest in engineering.
Sound perception, db threshold levels etc are well known and researched, so we know what thresholds people can hear and therefore simple calculations on power loss clearly show its impossible for ANYONE to hear a difference between two 'good enough' cables.
Looks like what he is showing in the video is single conductor cab tire, around about 12 AWG
Cables have been a very continuous topic as I am sure you are well aware. Cables are trivially easy to measure, Could you please provide the measurements that differentiates your cables from more generic cables.
Hi, thanks for your comment. Firstly, let me repeat what I state in the video. There is nothing special about our cables. Except that they are of high quality, sit nice and flat on the floor, have a low capacitance, low resistance and consist of 80 strands of copper, each. When we developed our loudspeakers we had to decide what to use as a reference point and we chose for multi-strand copper because we knew everyone could get hold of it easily.
It is very easy to make a cable alter the sound, all you need to do is add capacitance into the casing, or make it resistive, or induce an inductance (or a combination of all three). Some manufacturers do this to make their cables sound nice. Because the amount they alter by are usually very small, it can be hard to measure, but not impossible.
Hoping this helps?
After reading an interview in Stereophile with Henry Kloss, where he discusses working on a new design speaker, and when done, found that they could achieve the same quality sound, by simply using some Radio Shack Realistic brand loudspeakers but using a 10 band equalizer in the system, I've saved myself tens of thousands of dollars on equipment. I replaced the Klipschorns on my buying list with some Cerwin Vega AT-15's, and the Macintosh tube amplifier with a pair of Adcoms, as well as some other 'mid fi' equipment instead of the super expensive stuff that my audio snob friends had bought, and I had a lovely great sounding system. I guess I'm just lucky to have a 'low fi' pair of ears, so I'm able to enjoy my (now ancient) stereo system, while my friends spend all their time trying to find the difference in sound between monster cable and the simple 12 gauge lamp cord that I use. It must be terribly irritating to all the snob stereophiles who feel that they absolutely, positively, have to find the exact combination of absurdly expensive equipment so they can hear the squeaks and clicks that no one else can hear. Perhaps they can also hear the voice of god while they examine their setups.
Glad I found this site and Subscribed
Welcome. Enjoy what we have
It's a shame the cables have a white rubber insulating core. I find a light blue works best with rubber, especially on a Monday, although sky-blue-pink seems best for PVC covered cable, but it is in short supply, due to Covid 19 and the cold weather in Canada. Looking at the cost of most 'audiofool' cables, it is also cost-effective to braze pound coins together to create a nice, sturdy cable, although they are a trip hazard to small children and giraffe's....(polish your coins first, though, as the skin effect is a real issue at higher frequencies) 😉
I suspect this post is not entirely serious, yet I enjoyed it greatly. Don't craze the pound coins together too strongly - they need to move so they can bash into each other and make the electrons move without moving.
Check out Peter Belt and his amazing and crazy tweaks.
You, Sir, must be jesting. Surely you know that elevating said cables from the ground to avoid the mighty ground effect that demonstrably spinabulates electromagnetic interferences is of utmost importance. I dare say even more important than rubber sheathing in the 1st place ! And don't go for the cheap twice-baked ceramic conical ones that were broken in for less than 200 hours. Those are certainly not Audiophile quality !
Excellent video. Thank you, very interesting. I use 79 strand QED cable about 5m long. I'm happy with the sound.
Thanks Chris. Glad you enjoyed it
Silver plated copper wire - of a very high quality - is easy to source and not all that expensive, as long as you buy it from a military electronics surplus supplier. Miles of it are used inside every aircraft. I've got a whole reel of it here. But I bought it because it's nice to solder, not because it can have any effect on the sound of a hifi.
Audio cables can only have a particular sound if there's something wrong with them, like a bad connection or a grossly underspecifed diameter for the power they are handling - unless you live in a universe where the laws of physics are different to this one - I wonder if that universe is where all the audiophiles live ?
"I wonder if that universe is where all the audiophiles live ?"
Reality. I've been listening to claims like yours for over 30 years. I'm still waiting for a single credible test to prove people like you are right. If you can't produce anything real, why would anyone believe you?
@@AT-wl9yq The ridiculous claims come from the woo woo cable manufacturers and gullible people who think that if it's more expensive then it must be better. It's you and peple like you who need to provide credible blind tests to prove that stuff like 'oxygen free' copper cables or unobtainium coated cables sound better than normal multi stranded copper cables of adequate size and this has never been done. Only fools believe the woo woo cable bullshit.
@@fins59 Lets say you're right and there really is no difference between cables. How would you prove it to me that its all in my head?
@@AT-wl9yq I don't need to prove that it's all in your head, it's up to you to provide the evidence if you believe these claims that exotic expensive speaker cables are better than ordinary multi stranded copper cables of adequate size. It not too much different from people claiming that the Earth is flat, I don't need to prove them wrong, I know it isn't flat, science says it's not flat and most sane people dont believe that rubbish. I don't need to prove the blatantly obvious, it's up to you with your claims about woo woo cables to prove it's not in your head.
@@fins59 The reason I'm asking you for proof is because I know for a fact, you can't do it.
"I don't need to prove that it's all in your head, it's up to you to provide the evidence if you believe these claims that exotic expensive speaker cables are better than ordinary multi stranded copper cables of adequate size."
I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. However, after reading the above, Its clear you don't have a full understanding of the scientific method, especially when it comes to evidence. Its not my fault you don't you don't know these things, its yours. There's so much credible evidence on cables and accessories, you could spend the rest of your life and still not go through it all.
Also, I've never made any claims about expensive cables being better, and I never will. Price isn't objective, and it can't tell you anything about a cable. Same thing with "sounds better". Its subjective. Its impossible to prove that something sounds better than something else. Its an opinion.
I would suggest you do a little research as to how this all works. That way, you can have more relevant discussions.
The misconception about electricity is very well explained in the controversial Veritasium and Science Asylum channels.
The Poynting vector equation shows energy is transmitted through the electric and magnetic field from the source, and not in the wires, resulting in the impedance problem with the first transatlantic communication cables, fried up as people thought increasing the voltage would solve noise distortion.
They definitely do make a difference. Without them I struggle to hear anything. I suppose one way of eliminating the effects of conductance and resistance of loudspeaker cables is to use a wireless link.
😉👍
A good thick copper cable will do the job! If not, gold is the best leader!
Harley, this was informative and interesting. But it left a question - what is the gauge of your wire? You refer to it being 6mm thick, but that can't be the diameter of the wire bundle. Also, if the electronics are off to one side, rather than between the speakers, is there a problem if the two wire sets are not the same length? Thanks
Thank you for your kind appreciation and question. Our loudspeaker cable is comprised of a central conducting core which is made up of 80, 0,3mm thick low oxygen copper strands. Which when twisted is about 6mm thick. This equates to an AWG rating of 10. Because the resistance of this cable is extremely low (0.0033 ohms per meter / per cable which only 3,3 ohms for a cable 1km long, then it does not technically make any difference if you use cables of different lengths, as electricity flows roughly at the speed of light! However, most of the time we just accept the fact that on one side there is a surplus of cable. how much difference in length are you proposing?
I think the main issue with this video is that you have tried to over explain stuff.
What you should have said is this.
"We have built the speakers with quality cabling from speakers to rear terminal and designed them to have an overall flat response across the listening sound frequency range"
Then added.
"No special high end speaker cables are required. Just good quality multi strand copper wire with adequate outer shielding. You can make these yourself or buy them in our store but they are nothing super special"
This would have got the point across much better. But thanks anyway for not selling us a bunch of snake oil about high oxygen low carbon gold plated neutron balanced glow in the dark radiation free speaker cables
When someone tells me that can hear "a difference" between certain cables (without specifics) or that they hear "digital artifacts" (again, without specifying what they mean), I can only take them at their word. When things sound sub-par (a hum or distortion or lifelessness), I've found that improving the cable (or, better yet, improving the insulation around it) can help significantly. Otherwise, I think of an 1970 Firesign Theatre record, "Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers":
"That's metaphysically absurd, man. How can I know what you hear?"
So, if you hear it, there it is.
But your venture into physics at the start of this video brings to mind another question: What's the difference between direct current and alternating current? My murky understanding from long ago is that "current" does not consist of electrons "flowing" solid metal, but that the magnetic field generated around the wire when a circuit is completed is what transmits the electrical power, not the actual electrons themselves. Is that still the case in 2023?
Thanks for your very interesting comment. I hit into a lot of trouble either my explanation of electricity… it seems no matter how I or others explain it, if it doesn’t meet the scenario that others have in their heads then I am open for attack. But yes, the electrons do not flow like water down a pipe, it is generated by moving a wire within a magnetic field. To quote from a physics course on the Internet: “Alternating current (AC) is the flow of electric charge that periodically reverses direction. If the source varies periodically, particularly sinusoidally, the circuit is known as an alternating current circuit.”
Hifi fanatics do not have the balls to take part in blind tests! They are victims of the placebo effect!
Hifi fanatics suffer from a virus, and they can never be cured!
There's so much snake oil in this area of hi-fi.
Preach. It started in the 80's when big corporations learned how stupid people can actually be.
@@automachinehead - EXACTLY!
No surprise that changing the shape of a speaker voice coil changes how a speaker sounds. That does not prove that changing the shape of a speaker cable will change the sound of a system. There's a big difference between the operating characteristics of a voice coil and a speaker cable.
@@ProffAndy hm... then again, he didn't change anything about the speaker cable. As I understand, they claim to keep it as simple as possible.
I mean, this is a product information but he is not advertising anything snake-oily, or did he?
This is a question of psychoacoustics rather than engineering. The testing would have needed to take place under blind, controlled conditions to demonstrate anything. Geddes/Lee proved that the already known phenomenon of audiological masking caused distortion of up to 20% in some frequencies to be completely inaudible. Not saying that the design changes did/didn’t make a difference , although it’s counterintuitive as it would mean hearing the a mechanical difference introduced by microscopic fractions of current within the sea of distortion that the worlds best transducers are. Just saying that the laws of human psychology apply to engineers as much as anyone else, and it’s possible to be a highly competent mechanical engineer like Mark Fenlon and be quite unaware of them.
Thank you for that explanation…also is that a Rothko you are sitting in front of?
You are very welcome. And yes it is a Rothko, but a copy painted by my late Mother who was an artist in her own right and also a big fan of Rothko.
@@PearlAcoustics Well your mother was a very good artist.
@@johnmessina9721 thanks! Indeed, she was
Shame about the WooWoo, I enjoy listening to the presenter...he is very watchable...
The only way to find out is connecting different cables at your homeset.
I did and there was a lot of difference. The price doesn't matter, your preferences when comparing do.
I ended a Dutch handbuild silver cable by a small brand.
My set is a NAD M33 connected to B&W 804s speakers.
Thanks for your comment. I Absolutely agree. And the only thing that really matters is that you are happy with the results at the end of the exercise.
So the reason the sound didn't sound quite right was down to the incorrect design of the speaker coil
Dear Savoyradio, the coil was fine for what it was designed for. But because we don’t use any crossovers or filters we needed a slight modification for our cabinets.
About twenty five years ago a pal suggested we use flat silver coated ribbon cable recovered from industrial computer setups they were brilliant with the valve Quad and electrostatics.
👍
Beautiful intro and outro. That aside, snake oil.
Very well explained and a very interesting video thank you.
Thank you
People forget that a speaker cable is simply part of an overall circuit comprising amp output stage, speaker cable and drive unit (bass is the most demanding load). All you need to know to select the right cable is speaker minimum impedance, crossover design...dcr of bass inductor, damping factor, amp output impedance and damping factor. The latter depends on output impedance and crossover losses.
Any cable so capacitative or inductive that it acts as a filter should be avoided. High inductance will roll off the hf and high capacitance can affect amp stability if poorly designed.
Most people hearing big differences between cables are really hearing the results of either poorly matched amp and speakers or instability of the amp.
Cable geometry in voicecoils matters as it affects motor efficiency hence t&s parameters but this is simply not true of speaker cable...please dont conflate hearing differences in speaker cables with mythical magical electron scale effects...all cable if similar lcr properties will effect the exact same system response...fact.
Far too much tosh spoken by people with little to no real understanding of the subject. I've been a loudspeaker engineer for many years and have grown really weary of hearing sales marketing nonsense spoken or printed about cables.
a speaker cable is simply an electrical conductor - that's it. Crossover design has nothing to do with it, that's after the cable has delivered the signal.
My speakers are vastly different from yours . After much searching I appreciated the engineering approach of Mark Markel of Analysis Plus . Further study of opinions on his different cables I chose his silver-plated copper 12 gauge cables (very short) and they worked wonders on my 4 ohm open baffle speakers . For XLR I chose his single crystal copper cable .
The white paper on the website states that geometry was the most significant factor for instantaneous power delivery . Whatever the reason , I am satisfied and look no more .
If I changed your cable while you were at work you'd never know (until you looked) spend your money on music 🌚
@@zukispur5493 Someone tried that with me. It didn't work out too well for them.
@@AT-wl9yq "It didn't work out too well for them? Why? Was it not of good humour?
@@AT-wl9yq anyway. Keep listening to your music the way YOU want to feel it
@@zukispur5493 I may have overreacted. I let one of my friends go to my house and pick up a couple pieces of gear I wasn't using and there was a miscommunication. I double biwire with 2 separate runs of speaker cable for each speaker. He took one pair of the cables and put jumpers to the other set of binding posts. I had no idea he took the cables and when I went to listen to my system a few days later, and as you can imagine, it sounded different. I ran the cables so they can't be seen unless you look behind the speakers. It took me a while to figure out the cables were missing, and I got upset with my friend. I thought he was going to take another pair I had that was made by the same company. But yes, I overreacted.
Yes you are correct. Cables act as a part of the crossover in that they affect the frequency as the signal passes. But the strength of your system is dependent on the weakest link like steal parts on nuts and bolts in the amp, locks, and speaker bindings.
Absolutely
The weakest link in in most cases the acoustics of the room where the playback happens followed by the speakers and in many cases the humar ear.
And yes - cables are to just resistors - they can modifiy the signal depending on its frequency. But this effect is very low for low frequencies (and 20 KHz is low in that area).
Its a little bit like claiming that the speed your are driving with your car has an impact on the color of a traffic light as you see it..
That is also true (as we know from Albert Einstein) but this effect depends heavily on the speed you are driving - as long as you not have 80% of the speed of light it is so low that you can definitly ignore it)
Too far above my spend-grade. When I had the walls open in our fixer home back in the 1990's, I used 16 gauge stranded copper wire from a 250 foot roll to wire-up the house for stereo. It still works just fine over 25 years later. Should I start to lose sleep about my future stereo listening situation?
Absolutely not! Enjoy your music. Stranded copper, as you know and prove, works just fine.
Do all the rest first… if you believe that they make a difference. Dit some tests myself and could not hear any difference between a decent cable and a very expensive one. Experiment with the placement of your speakers, it is free and has way more impact than any cable but a faulty one. Instead of spending much money on cables try some room correction systems like Lyngdorf, will have way more impact like cables too… and above all listen to the music and not to the equipment…
Wonder what cables were used to achieve perfect marriage during Sibelius design at 5:13 ? I like to forced expansion banana plug, however, plenty of wire/cross-section snake-oil in the video.
The water pipe analogy would be the same as having the end of the cable connected to ground, having an open pipe is the same as a grounded cable, if you had a stop on the pipe you would have the same analogy as an open circuit cable ! Unfortunately, you have done little to settle the controversy over speaker cables. large cross-sectional area quality speaker cable (12SWG for example) has little inductance or capacitance, and you cannot compare voice coil dynamics and frequency response to an ultra-low impedance cable. Agreed if you compare bell wire with a good-sized quality cable there will be a difference, but spending more than a few dollars per meter on speaker cable is completely pointless, it's all about impedance, as the inductance and capacitance are negligible. Sorry to disagree with you, but I am an electrical engineer with 35 years of experience and I have also been into high-end audio for 20 years, trust me I have tried all sorts of solutions, and there is little basis in spending 100's dollars on cable, you are wasting your money. the majority of claims I have seen and witnessed rely on the placebo effect. My advice use 16-10SWG (1.6-3.25mm) good quality audio cable priced at 1-2 dollars per meter and you will achieve 99.99% of what you are aiming for. Your pre-stages, DAC's. amplifiers and speakers and room! will have far more impact on the sound that you are producing, than cables ever will !
Dear Jamie, thank you for your excellent comments. I absolutely agree with you fir the most part. And I hope I don’t give a different opinion. I wanted to emphasis that everything else is more important that the speaker cables and these should be looked at last. I am completely in line with your view on the cables themselves and our cables are not magic, just high quality, thick cables that we sell at a price that reflects the costs of the limited production run, handmade effort that goes into them. But we are often asked what cables do we recommend and we say thick multi-strand. And some people want to know what cables we used during the development process. I was surprised, however, how some proprietary cables changed the sound and I realised that this could have only occurred by them deliberately changing the capacitance, inductance, and or resistance within the cable.
@@PearlAcoustics thank you for taking the time to reply, it would seem that in general, we agree with each other :-) and please do not get me wrong, I like your channel and your commentary, I was just trying to be heplful with my comment. keep up the good work !
Correction: your old tutor said speed of the water was like CURRENT, voltage being the pressure and pipe diameter giving the resistance to the flow, probably a long time since he told you that, but worth mentioning)
I am guessing he used a flat profile wire in the voice coil, the sound improvement was NOT from the profile specifically, but the way it closes the air-gap between magnet and voice coil, better magnetic coupling means less distortion and resonance. Sorry if I gave it away, but its pretty obvious.
Thanks Cornelius. Very useful contribution to the topic. Much appreciated
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks, sorry it sounded egotistic, I have a passion for speakers and all things audiophile).
@@engjds that’s ok…
Make sure its OFC copper, and the right wire gauge for your setup. That's all you need to know about speaker cables.
🤗 VERY INTERESTING …🧐 proving your NEVER TOO OLD TO LEARN 😊
How electrons work 😅 as opposed to the water hose example we were taught …🤗THANK YOU FOR AN EASY TO UNDERSTAND EXPLANATION 😍😍😍
Thank you. Very kind. Some will say it’s an over simplification, but it’s the general point, I was aiming to make. I remember the first time I heard a similar explanation - and everything made sense to me too! Just passing it on.
30 years to develop a speaker like that,yea ok good luck with the next one
Your hilarious!made me laugh
Like what?
Do you even know what it is? Other than a floorstanding loudspeaker of course?
@@rationalmartian its a single speaker in a box. No crossover. The driver purchased from outside vendor. So yeah.... 30 years? 😂😂😂
@@derekr5327 🤦🏻♂️
@@rationalmartian you believe in $5k cables too, no?
The fact that someone can modify the sound of a speaker drive cone by altering the size and/or cross-section of the wire seems reasonable. In that application the wire is forming a coil which will interact with a magnet. The nature of the coil and magnet interaction will directly affect the movement and therefore the sound at the cone. However, a cable that is being used to link the amplifier to the speaker cabinet does not produce sound. It is not part of the driver mechanism. It just makes the circuit. So long as the cable has appropriate electrical conductivity and the connectors make a good connection that is all that is required. I believe you have recognised this in your wise choice of a baseline cable. (By the way the comment of "this is all rubber with no plastic" ... I'm afraid all the "rubber" used in cables is just a soft squidgy grade of plastic!)
Cables. Do they matter? Yes, of course they do.Without cable, your speaker are just an overpriced paperweight. With cables, they make good sound. Do "expensive" cables matter though? Fuck no. Get a cable from amazon basics and as long as you put those cables reasonably and put a reasonable load into them, they will just sound as good as the "expensive" ones. You say you hear a difference though? Good for you then. Data shows otherwise though, so it's 100% in your head or your previous cable is broken.
In some cases expensive cables are just cheap ones wrapped in a fancy jacket.
Superb explanation and advice.
Thank you!
Great video and I mean no disrespect, but changing the shape of the voice coil wire didn’t change the sound in and of itself. The shape determines how much copper will fit into a given space. A winding of round wire will have small gaps where the turns and layers don’t fully occupy the available space. A square wire will pack tightly together. A rectangular or flat ribbon wire wound on its short edge will allow more turns of wire for a given height and diameter, compared to a square wire. These things affect the performance of the coil in different ways when combined with other variables of the design. So he didn’t improve the speaker by changing the shape of the wire, he did it by using a different shaped wire to create a different specification of voice coil, which is an important factor in any design. And I only mention this to educate and demystify the story, not to shit on your great video or to be a smart ass. The more we know the more we can enjoy music!
Dear Marty. You’re absolutely right and perhaps I should have mentioned the mechanical impacts of the change of profile on the performance of the voice coil. However, I have on good authority from a physicist from the university of Leuven, that indeed the profile of a conductor does have an effect on the clustering of electrons within the conductor and can, in itself impact the pattern of conductivity and thus sound. What I believe you and I are both in agreement on, is that the smallest change in a voice coil can have a big impact on sound. If another physicist wants to come back to challenge the profile theory and our empirical evidence, that would be very interesting to hear.
@@PearlAcoustics I have just discovered your channel and greatly enjoy your down to earth, sometimes contrarian exposition. Electron “clustering” occurs on an ultra micro scale can be ignored on the scale of speaker cables. At a curent of one mA ca 6 times 10 to the power 12 electrons flow in one milli second, more than enough to average out clustering. None the less you came out right with cables and, yes, the shape of cables can influence speaker behaviors but it does so through inductance and capacitance. Keep up the wonderful videos, Sibelius could put more memorable musical themes in a single movement than most composers in a lifetime.
@@roberthesse5990 thank you Robert! I couldn’t think of a more suitable composer to name our speakers after!
I agree with you in your analysis. I find it a mighty big stretch to extrapolate a voice coil modification all the way to interconnects.
Nice job, Marty McFly. I concur completely. ATC, the loudspeaker manufacturer of much renown, quite openly say that they flatten wire in order to get more turns into a given magnet gap and thus make a stronger motor in their speaker driver. They do the flattening themselves on a machine that (I think - but am not sure) they built themselves, so they can get it exactly how they want it.
The terminations on these cables are the first I've seen that make me think, "now THERE is a truly well-designed cable termination". Are they available for purchase anywhere, or are they a "Pearl Exclusive"?
Hi Eric, we have ours made for us but I think there are some similar designs out there.
The only "termination" needed is a tight screw or banana plug on cheap wire. There is ZERO measurable or audible difference between that and all this snake oil. Cable terminations matter at RF and microwave frequencies or on VERY long cable (as in half a mile or more) at audio frequencies.
Cables are passive. They have no “sound”. If a cable sounds brighter than another it simply means it has less capacitance and is letting more of the signal through. Just get a good quality cable with low capacitance and be done with it. One can find these on the cheap. Who in the world would want to “equalize” with a cable. Considering we have about 5 seconds of audio memory to compare cables, without measurements it is a pointless exercise.
I spoke with some one of the Dutch KEF distributor about witch cable to use with my KEF speakers.
He told me that the only thing that is important is the electrical resistance of the cable, you can even use cheap electrical cable.
Expensive cabels dont do anything to influence the sound, they are just a waste of money.
Thank you sir... you really gave me a good understanding on how speaker cables makes a difference, well detailed and informative information . Thank you
You’re very welcome - thank you.
It's great having high fidelity represented as reproducing real musical instruments and not just as reproduces of pop and rock electronics noise.Acoustics engineering tech teaches what real instruments make in terms of acoustic output.
That cable is it used inside of the speaker ? Is there any synergy using the same cable used inside a speaker from the amp to the speakers ?
Thanks for your question. We use a different cable internally, (1,5 silver coated, multi-strand copper) mostly for practical reasons. The synergy in our case is maintained because we don’t have any printed circuit boards or electrical components in our enclosures. I hope this answers your question?