Here's Why A McLaren Loses £50,000 a year: How They Are Failing Their Customers (IMHO) [VLOG]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2018
- You can't deny the fact that McLaren really shook up the supercar landscape, and continue to do so. Cars like the 12C, 675LT and 720S have pushed the performance envelope - but with this there have been problems. Bad dealer service, reliability issues, massive depreciation. So I decided to take a few minutes to talk about what's going on and a few ways they could be improved.
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Ron Dennis would have had this sorted by now. he was notoriously obsessive about the small details. McLaren lost it's DNA the moment they ousted him.
I am inclined to agree
Very true.
Carl Mills
So correct.
But he was a complete arse hole to work for... Which massively effected how his staff worked.
@@cooperwilliams4686 Probably would have made better cars as he'd just copy other people's by any means possible!!!
Apart from harrysgarage, you are the only person on youtube I can listen to a 35 minute monologue from!
Thanks, that means a lot
Him and Doug Demuro for me
you are spot on mate 100% with you on this
@@riverstour
Doug's car knowledge is shockingly little
@@JayEmmOnCars Yup, I'm listening to this almost a year out of date, but still relevant and interesting - great to cook my dinner to and I even carried on whilst I was eating, whereas normally I'd pause till next time and watch something.
A lot of manufacturers have realised that the uber-rich will spend virtually any amount of money - look at the prices of new Paganis now, to give one example - and there's more profit to make fleecing these people with something 'special' or 'limited'. Even Porsche are in on the act with that 935 pastiche based on the GT2 - looks bugger all like it? Doesn't matter: rich geezer sees it's 750k and limited, so it's another one to add to the list.
I’m glad you addressed this. It’s a major shame that Mclaren is choosing not to focus on quality and reliability. It’s going to kill their brand equity. A quick look at the Mclaren forum will show a ton of embarrassing quality issues - corroded metal, missing/falling pieces, etc. These are often not easy problems to fix at the dealership. I test drove a new 720 and 570 Spider - both had issues during the test drive. The salesperson was not at all surprised. I was in the market to buy one, but I decided to stay with Porsche - terrible reliability is unacceptable.
What happened at the test drive?
The 570 starting blowing really hot air in the cabin, in the middle of summer, it was almost 30C outside. And the salesman (who’s very knowledgeable) didn’t know how to shut it off. A/C was on at the start of the drive, just randomly started blowing full hot.
The 720 had a low tire pressure warning, we checked them but they were fine, so we drove with the light on.
Fluterra i love when a car depreciates... if I haven’t been the first owner
Jags are no longer British, and have substantially improved.
Sandy ehmmm yes they are british. Just owned by an Indian company that provides money.
I'm an engineer. This is what happens when you let engineers run a company. A lot of them think their s doesn't stink and customers are an annoyance.
By all accounts the engineering behind the cars are quite good but QC and the customer experience is the issue.
I’m an engineer. This is what happens when people who have no clue on engineering run a business and listen to accountants when designing anything
I can always tell who an engineer is, because as soon as I meet them they say "hi, I'm an engineer".
youre not an engineer lol, or at least not a hardcore one. engineers are all about performance and reliability, so this is obviously due to poor qc and management idiocy, as usual
Money pits
Steering rack failure $35,000 I kid you not
This commentary is completely accurate and long overdue. I also feel that is possible to kill the golden goose no matter how well endowed he is.
When you live 810 miles away from the closest dealer, a McClaren isn't an option.
Can confirm the warranty cost. My mate here in the US had a 12C, and the warranty was $6k USD per year.
You nailed it. I just traded my 2013 12C Spyder for a 650S Spyder. The 12C was beginning to have some issues. To be fair it never stranded me and I put 8,000 miles on it in 18 months with 2 track days. I love the brand and I love the cars. Started a Mclaren Club in Dallas. I am at the entry level of being able to afford these cars and you description is completely accurate of how they treat that level of buyer. Everything is priced for the rich rather than the well off. Extremely accurate and unbiased video. Great job! Cheers. I subscribed.
Matt Peters Good to see you here Matt! See you at the new GT reveal in 2 weeks?
Audi R8 has great reliability, compared to the McLean super cars.
Jason Nav I have a V10 plus Gen2, had Porsche’s, AM’s, Lotus and two R8’s but I have to say for me, Audi...but I’ve driven the 12c and it’s a wonderful car, although I’ve friends who seem to be having issues with their McLaren’s on a regular basis
The R8 is my favorite.
@@YTB952 6 I ol
Are all McLean super cars white with the red and blue stripes?
Yes but Mclean supercars have enamel protection.
My dad's 12C spyder has been with us for just over a year. It spent 6 months through the summer and spring getting it's engine rebuilt, fixing oil problems, etc (under warranty). Electrical problems happen bimonthly. Reliability is a joke. Yet it is the best car I have driven and I love it to bits. We will probably move on to another car just for the servicing time lost every year. $2700 oil change here in the states! And the oil change took over a month to complete. I shit you not.
Update: It spent another 4 months in the shop for the exact same problems this year. Engine rebuilt again. Mclaren compensated us for some of the time lost which was nice of them. My dad loves the car too much to let it go at this point.
I hear a lot about the service centres being over subscribed
What does the regular oil change include?
Oil, filter, washers, plug, an inspection of the car and I think another filter (maybe cabin?)
@@JayEmmOnCars I think it is because there is not enough centers, and with the reliability issues with Mclarens, service is needed much more !! Such a shame for a huge Mclaren fanboy like myself!
They hide there reliability very well. I rarely hear of them breaking. Unlike the other British sports car makes. Which makes them seem bullet proof by comparison.
Very good to see someone talk sense about cars like this. Far too many people will have you believe that these cars only go up in value and are also free to run
Very confusing to see a post by "myself" on a video I couldn't remember viewing....
Lol why does this keep happening
@GabrielTurntUp Gabriel Santiago sometimes I like to talk to myself. So does Michael Hall.
Before buying my Evora I started looking at 12C's second hand online, and I have to admit reading up on the running costs put me right off, things like the gearbox and steering rack costs were huge, and every former owner I spoke to at events said "Don't touch them with a barge pole"... They were almost all driving Ferrari 458/488s now.
It didn't help that when I dropped in to the Bristol dealership in the V12 Vantage S they couldn't even be bothered to let me in the showroom to have a look at them - there were staff there, but I didn't have an appointment (I'd just picked up the Vantage from a service and the dealership is around the corner) so they wouldn't even unlock the showroom to let me look at one. They didn't even take my contact details, just a 'no'.
That is unbelievably shocking arrogance. Let's face it, if you have a V12 Vantage you're a prime candidate for buying a Macca. You clearly have money, and like British cars, so to not even let you in to have a sniff around is farcical.
@@JayEmmOnCars Car dealers are weird. When I was buying the 400 I went into Snows in Hedge End - there was one other couple in there who they were setting up for a test drive so we milled around looking at brochures and their Sport 410 for 20 minutes and the guy didn't even acknowledge us. He sent them off on the test drive and then just disappeared for another 10 minutes before coming back and talking to us, almost surprised that we were still there!
We looked at an S Sport Racer and their 400 demo with him, got a price list, discussed the options, went home, discussed it with the wife and emailed them the spec we wanted and what could they do in terms of price..... 12 months later they've still not replied.
They must sell, what? A dozen Evoras a year? If that?
I would not touch Snows with a barge pole. I have seen their sales people at a couple of shows and I was not impressed.
@@JayEmmOnCars I'd only really gone in as I was passing and hadn't had a chance to directly compare the S and 400, but thought I'd might as well get a quote from them. Baffled that someone contacting and say "I want to buy a new 400" doesn't even warrant a response.
Ended up buying from Hofmanns who who outstanding.
I've had a terrible experience with McLaren Ascot sales. Took weeks to respond to emails and after 3 months they weren't even sure if I would get the spec I wanted (at which point my toys got thrown out). I don't think they were taking me seriously at all so went to the used market instead and picked up a nearly new one and then emailed them pictures of it to show them I was indeed serious. Nobody cared so no apology came. They have more customers than they know what to do with. The cars are awesome, so definitely get one (if you're in the market of course) but don't get your hopes up on the sales/service... it's NOT good.
I think the reason the 650s was so much better is because it was in essence a 12c with the snags ironed out. They’re a young company (as a car manufacturer) and are living out their growing pains very publicly. When the 675LT came out it it immediately be the one to beat and quickly established itself as a definitive super car. At that point there was no direct competitor they were losing out to so when the 720s was released the performance step up was unbelievable and left everyone in a state of shock - less we forget the 720s was the successor to the 650s yet was always compared to the LT which unbelievably was a significant step on. I think they really pushed the design parameters with the 720s and what we’re seeing now with the reliability issues is a product of that. We probably need a 750s with the snags worked to get them to the point they should be at. With regard to the Senna the moment I saw it I thought it was a limited run variant of the 720s and also thought what an awful looking car it is..... I was also very unimpressed with the use of the Senna name and felt they’d made a bit of a shameless marketing lead decision to exploit the status that name carries. Senna didn’t race sport cars where their only connection is through the F1 .... they’re two completely separate eras so how can you connect them? To me it felt like a cheap shot. I think the whole project should sit in the same space as Ferrari’s FXX project and not be seen as part of their range. I don’t think you can blame McLaren, the FXX cars have proven there is a market for ridiculous track toys at ridiculous prices. Basically it’s still early days, the sports car series proved they’ve come along way (apart from the 540c confusing the range a little) and their quirks and oddities is quintessentially British and that’s a good thing!!
I truly agree with almost everything you are saying in this video! Only thing I keep thinking is, yes it is a lot of money, for instance the 3000 pound warranty, or the 1500 pound oil change, however, the cars are selling for 200+ when new, and in that light, you could compare it to a 300 pound a year warranty on a golf, or a 150 pound oil change (at the VW dealer), I don't know if these prices are all right in UK (I'm not from there) but then it does not sound super super bad to me. Again, looking at an oil change amount is absurd of course.. Though, a ferrari or lambo oil change will probably be the same, at dealer?
After reading the title I assume that McLaren's are free then after 3-4 years?
*insert Stonks meme here*
I reckon a lot of high end 'supercars' are only worth having for the first 2 or 3 years whilst under warranty. Beyond that you're on your own to get them fixed and boy they ain't cheap to do....Bentley being a prime example.
I mean they all seem to cost 270 000 so be a decent amount of money off then once they hit 5 yeara old the wheels fall off and then it dissolves into the pavement
@@highlandrab19 will the mclaren goo on the pavement help me get girls? My 20yr Ford fiesta isn't quite cutting it. 😢😂
Great video, very informative. Keep getting tempted to part ex my 991 GTS for a 570 GT but the depreciation, build quality and dealer back up always persuades me to stick with Porsche.
Nothing wrong with the build quality on McLaren's.
@@PP-um7kk Mclaren CEO has entered the chat^
@@PP-um7kk 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 They are universally acknowledged as being UTTER CRAP.
@@jamesrobert4106 So you never actually owned or driven one.. Right 😆 🤣
I love that this was filmed in a 911 ....
Me and my business partner bought two super cars March 2019.he got the 570s, I’ve got the 488gtb.
He sold the car before the end of 2019, main reason was the 570s just keep dropping and the new models just keep coming up, I totally agree with what you say about McLaren, and we probably will not be looking into McLaren for short amount of time until they come up with something to protect the second hand market for their cars
You’re videos are so different to anything else I’ve come across on TH-cam.
You’re really talking a lot about medium to long term ownership and this I think is where the major differences are to be found between car brands.
After having owners a Porsche for the last 5 years, I’ve really come to understand and enjoy the ownership, the club events, the vast selection of good aftermarket parts, the stable depreciation, the simplicity of the earlier cars etc etc.
All this matters a lot of you’re really into your cars and want to do more than simply own them and use them as status symbols.
Jay, thanks for yet another stimulating and interesting point if view! It almost makes me glad that I can’t afford any supercar at all, considering all the things one asked to think about, and more importantly, worry about. You certainly have stimulated a lot of interesting replies here, which is great for us who are into cars as well as for you boosting your channel.
Hi JayEmm,I'm not far from you, the other side of Norfolk near Kings lynn. I currently own a 540c and a new 991.2 GT3 Manual. (I started on 911's 10 years ago with a 996 Carrera and what a shame 911's after that didn't keep the noise, it's often not mentioned when comparing it with the later models. Apart from GT3's of course which sound incredible)Anyway, onto the McLaren. The car is brilliant in many ways. The first thing is the general feel of the car. The driving position being so low and sitting so close to the front wheels is the best I've known, it makes my GT3 feel like sitting in a truck afterwards. The hydraulic steering is also very nice, the gear change is tactile, but really outstanding is the suspension. The 911 bumps up and down on our lanes/narrow B roads, whereas the McLaren soaks them up far better, probably down to Lotus engineers I would think. And when it goes around a bend the feels totally flat, again far better than the GT3 in my opinion.The looks are the only thing I don't agree with you on, I love how it looks, and find that so does everyone else. Wherever I go, everyone stares and smiles, takes pic, no negative issues whatsoever. Very different from Porsche or Ferrari etc in my experience.Anyway the noise, it's the weakest point of the car, apart from acceleration from about 4k to the 8.5k redline where it's not bad, the rest of the time it really is very dull and uninspiring. The performance is great but the thing is you want the quality of the noise all the time, this is where the GT3 is obviously magnificent. Like you I've always believe the noise is essential in a sports car, very underrated by some manufacturers, Porsche lost the plot for years on Carrera's until the 991 where they started to work on it again. All the journalists and owners seemed to be in agreement this was the weak point on these McLarens, so I assumed that when McLaren developed the new engine for the 720 that clearly the no.1 priority would be it's noise. What blew me away when I drove it in McLaren Birmingham (apart from the insane speed) was that the noise was quieter and smoother!! It ruined what should have been a cracker of a car.The other bit that doesn't work is the LCD touch screen. I know that this looks very clever and modern, but in reality it is a gimmick, annoying and dangerous. When driving you have to look down at the screen to do anything in which time you're simply not watching the road, it's no different than looking at your mobile phone. This whole idea should be dropped and buttons should be used so you can locate them without having to scrutinise the screen. It also glares too much in the sun so you have to keep moving your head around to see it!Anyway, as far as the maintenance goes, sadly it's been a nightmare. I had dodgy electronic door switches for months and 2 different dealers couldn't work out what was going on, although they eventually worked it out. I also had rust under the front wing, which was replaced by a certain dealer in the North West. They then proceeded to not put it on straight, then the second time scratched my wheel and panel, then this panel wasn't put on lined up, in the end I had the car delivered to me 4 times before it was right. I have to say this was the dealers fault. And now I'm coming to sell it, like you said, I'm going to take a serious haircut on it, I had no idea it would be this bad.So, all in all, a great car in so many ways, blighted in a few key area's. Will I have another one, yes, but I'll be patient and wait until they iron things out a bit.I'd be happy to meet up with you and show this or the GT3 if you're interested.
Alex - drop me a line on talk@jayemm.com
alex middleton I’m looking at buying a 540 or 570 at moment. I’m in Norwich. Could be interested in your car. Do you have any info on it ?
The 600LT has corrected the engine noise. Hopefully, they are learning from mistakes to improve reliability.
JayEmm and TH-cam at its best. Great insight and commentary on McLaren’s perceived woes.
I bought a 570S and lost $40k in a year. We parted company when they extracted $2k for an oil change and tried to extract $4000 for a warranty (plus $1k to inspect the car to confirm they would be willing to provide said warranty - on a three year old car with full service history and 4000 miles). They seem to be targeting multi-millionaires.
Targeting idiots with money.....anyone who earned his millions wouldn't give $$$ away that easy
@@Forgemno 👏💯agree wholeheartedly
First video I’ve watched on your channel. Great viewpoint, informative and clearly articulated. Just subbed!
Thankyou! You may also enjoy my GT3 video as it is similar to this one in format
Thank you, I enjoyed that. Nice to see Sudbury featuring - took me a few minutes to twig where you were.
Ha ha. I like to play spot the Suffolk town too. Waiting for the one that has me in the background 😄
Loved this video! You keep talking and I’ll keep listening!
Thankyou!
This is the first video I watched on your channel, great upload.
I watched a 720s with 4 miles on the clock go for 120k on a auction and you can now buy 12c for 65k in the UK on auto trader.😮
Damn that’s insane😳
Really good video. Very informative, and echoes a lot of my own thoughts/experience. Particularly like that the video ended up in a McDonalds car park!😂
Haha yep didn't plan to stop there but I knew the video was coming to an end and I would need somewhere to take the cameras off my car!
Loved what you said during this video. Makes total sense, thankyou.
Mclaren isn't interested with people who don't have 20g to spend over the weekend.
Amen. I felt a way.....back to bmw I went.
Excellent video James. Well presented and balanced viewpoints throughout. Was considering a mclaren however this provides a lot of food for thought. Keep up the great work.
Thankyou
Masterclass in TH-cam automotive monologue .... I don't know much about the McLarens but interesting piece all the same.
Thankyou Tom
I made it the bitter end and I have to say you presented your points very well. I very much enjoyed your “on the fence” way of putting things across. I largely agree with you, I too don’t want McLaren as a brand to disappear but on the other hand McLaren are the reason I know longer like supercars. They are too common.
I remember when it was so rare to even see an f430 but now I see a dozen McLarens. And supercars becoming two a penny takes the thrill away, London is a great example of this!
Great video! I think your channel is very underrated.
Hey JayEmm,
GREAT video- TY.
Yes the depreciation on McLarens and many other supercars and high end luxury cars is due to the emergence of safety features and high tech multi screens now needing to be the norm in the auto industry.
That new GLE tech that rocks all 4 corners is in sane.
That rear view mirror in the new LR Evouque
The side mirrors on the new e-tron SUV from Audi is really cool
The dashboard that turns in the Bentleys
The dashboard turning to race mode in the 720S
Lots of things to have fun with.
Just need to win the lottery.
All the very BEST from Vancouver, Canada!!
'Supercars' are the most expensive, least reliable, costliest cars to repair / maintain / insure, on earth. So if you have to stretch your finances in any way, just to acquire the car in the first place, it's a dead certainty you have set yourself up for a painful financial loss. It's also nearly certain that you'll rarely, if ever, have a chance to use that car properly. If you truly enjoy driving, you will enjoy it more in something you can afford.
Fair point. It's a fairly ludicrous proposition that folks are stretching themselves to the financial breaking point to purchase a toy that they know will only break their heart. Fact is, these cars can only be driven anywhere close to their performance potential on a racing circuit unless you have the driving skills of a race driver. Let's be honest - very few people know how to properly drive a car at speed on a twisty road - understand the physics of weight transfer and braking points and turn-in points and how to sense when the tires are losing grip - particularly in other then perfect weather conditions. We all say we do. Some of us may even think we are really skilled drivers. But very, very few are truly capable of safely driving high performance cars anywhere near their limits on public roads.
Thank you! I've been saying all this for ages, and of course that gets you labelled as a "hater"
Until the management grasp this. I cant see it changing though!
I think this video and the one about the Porsche GT program does a great service to the community and hopefully the respective manufacturers as well, should they take heed.
This is a great video. Keep up the good work.
Great video, you've really hit the spot with this style of video, sufficiently in-depth and I want to stay to the end of the 35min.
I hope you'll do similar analysis with other makes too, BMW would be an interesting one and I'd certainly have a few pennies to add on the subject of design direction at BMW, I think they're really on the wrong path and are losing the strength of their character...
It''s important in videos like this which are essentially constructive criticism one could only hope would be heard by the right ears, to underline that we are all car enthusiasts who love and appreciate these brands, to point out the great achievements, innovations and strengths - you do this so well in the video, I am pleased that you recognised this is important, otherwise one might end up sounding sensationalist... like so many other youtubers...
Dude, I don't give a flying fuck about cars (here becuz you posted a few times on blu-ray.com a few years ago) but you've got such a compelling presence that I would happily watch you read the phone book. If you were doing these exact same videos about digital cameras (your Alexas, Sonys, REDs and whatnot) then oh boy, I'd have died and gone to heaven. Such a simple style but so effective, too many YT'ers rely on comedy schtick or other gimmicks but this is gold, GOLD I tells ya!
Geoff... watch this space, I have a channel coming you may enjoy
Onya, as we say that so beautifully down under. Very interesting. You presented it just right, I thought. Cheers, keep up the good work. You deserve a lot more than 25K subs. I hope it'll happen for you. All the best. A
Cracking video and very interesting.
This guy is spot on. The 650s is superior to the 570 and they can't afford to stock a 3 year old car that is 100k down. Who will buy the poor man's edition over the 650S that has taken alot of concepts from the P1. They are digging a hole for themselves.
In plenty of ways the 650s is far worse than a 570s, ive owned both
@@Driver_88 Interesting. Shows that experience is the key. But i would be tempted when the 650S hit the 100K price tag
@@gracefullygraceful9776 I dont blame you for that price considering the overall performance you are getting, id buy extended warranty, with 12c's you Really need to find a good one, my 720s was a pain in the ass too, atleast 24 things wrong with it however my dealership fixed everything and are fantastic, its best to get a low km car that's after the first year of production imo with Macs, if you want to reduce both problems!
Sold a McLaren MP-4-12C to buy a new NSX. It was the best decision I ever made because the McLaren though attractive in many ways was an absolute nightmare to keep on the road. I don't care that McLaren honored the $89,000+ in repairs for the 11 months we kept it! Transmission failure/problems, oil leaks, LED taillights failing, instrument panel lights not working, ECU replacement (2X), leaking struts, creaks rattles, electrical gremlins, parts availability etc. etc. etc. Christ what a beautifully designed but horribly executed and unreliable vehicle. The POS like our Ferrari 348 spent more time in the shop than on the road! Getting into an exotic car and having it start and actually be capable of going on a road trip without having to worry about a problem is truly enjoyable. The NSX is far more reliable, great at everything and better than the McLaren (even when the McLaren was working). The McLaren was never a great car but, it was better (even great at) frustrating and completely ruining your driving experience with its constant issues and breakdowns. Never again.
I don't think I know anyone who bought a new NSX. I think they look awesome, how is it?
I've owned 5 McLarens lost a fortune on depreciation.
This guy speaks the absolute truth very interesting video, McLaren need to hire him lol.
Still love the cars tho.
¿If you love the cars why talk about depreciation?. ¿Not enought love for stay with the same car more than 10 years?
¿And this fortune is the same % of a normal car?
@@llavero5 Why not it's all relevant!
@@llavero5 No because I fancied a Ferrari 458, 612, Lamborghini aventador, Aston Martin db9, 911 etc
Only owning these other cars makes you realise how good the McLaren's are.
And no the McLaren's depreciated much faster than other super cars, great if you're a new buyer, not so great if you've owned it for a period of time.
@@PP-um7kk
But wouldn't you agree that part of what makes supercars by Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche and Aston Martin better retain their value is because of their greater brand recognition? And another reason is most likely because these companies are better at producing more reliable cars than McLaren does. And that is to be expected, since they have way more years of experience at building cars. But what I don't get is lots of British folks bashing McLaren, knowing it is still a young company, and that no automaker is entirely perfect. They all make mistakes. Lots of British youtubers just make negative videos about McLaren and it's cars. And some of them have never even owned a McLaren. I mean, why do that to one of your own? And I am not saying those who had bad experiences with McLaren and its cars shouldn't share that information with others. But you find that those who share their bad or negative experience (s) with a McLaren, don't care to make a separate video sharing the good experiences. And to me, that's not good! I mean, if Parker (Vehicle Virgins) uploads a video entitled "5 things I hate about my McLaren 600LT," rest assure he will release a 2nd, "5 things I love about my 600LT." Now, he does the same with every other car he owns or review. But you don't get that with British TH-camrs. All they do is make videos discussing the negatives about McLarens. Now, yes, they may say something positive about Mclarens in the video. But I believe it's only to make it appear as though they're being fair and have nothing against McLaren. When it comes to McLaren cars, there are only few British youtubers that I care to listen to. Amongst those include Tim (Shmee150) and James (Mr. JWW). And Chris Harris is one of few British car journalist.
@@TheTmat007 well, the reliability issues for new car manufacturers are understandable, the arrogance and the complete lack of professionalism of a lot of their sales guys absolutely not. If you are in sales you HAVE to be polite and patient, really patient, this is simply the first rule of every sale rep. So they're doing wrong in a lot of sides of the business where they should not.
Looks like you were right about Mclaren. They have put their headquarters up for sale last week
Yep, I hate being right sometimes
@@JayEmmOnCars I hear you on that one! Let's hope that they can find a way forward.
Would. Love a supercar one day, oh well happy with my mx5, that's a super car
McLaren cars are way better looking than my Peugeot 106d.....but my 106 is WAY cheaper to fix.
Great video! Really informative and interesting
Thanks
This guys content is great to either pay attention to and enjoy or faintly listen to it in the background of other tasks. Absolutely fascinating. Cheers from across the pond brother
Thanks max
If you can’t afford a new Mclaren you certainly can’t afford a 2nd hand one.
Here in Australia they have a bad rep for sorting issues very bad rep, they devalue heaps but given the rep I am surprised there is a 2nd market here at all.
I think your first para absolutely nails it!
Same in the US. And British cars like the Land Rovers and lotus .....are know for being unreliable and over priced. So most people avoid them
I'm not saying Land Rovers are bad but Lotus owners complain about their reliability
Nice McLaren rant. I've only ever seen pictures of it, but the Speedtail... Fugly.
Even in my lottery fuelled fantasies, I think I'd go for a McLaren, but then I think of the massive amounts of imaginary cash that would be pissed up the wall in depreciation. And then I woke up, yawned, farted and went back to work.
Fifteen hundred quid for an oil change! Even if they threw in a filter, and some sexual favours, that would be a tad beyond the pale.
Another good job, JM - keep 'em coming!
thats why it is better to buy preowned as you wont take the depreciation hit and let the ultra rich take it ! On the other hand all, I repeat all supercars have the same approximation of service expenses, Ferrari seem to be the worse, but a simple oil change expense will all be the same, maybe Porsche will have it slightly less expensive,
Awesome listen and very informative, subscribed.
Thanks!
I don't know who you are or why you are on my feed but i know that thanks to you i have confirmed my thoughts on McLaren's, their shit!
I had an allocation for a 600LT but I passed on it. It was too easy to get the allocation and the due diligence I did revealed that I faced a lot of depreciation, expensive maintenance and unreliability. McLaren today is Ferrari in 1983.
I have seen people already trying to flip their 600LT. I think it will end badly
Had a Mclaren MP4-12C. It had only covered c.4350 miles. Never tracked & was pampered. Reliability awful. Servicing dreadful. 2 months 10 days was the lead time quoted to get the car into service dep't and £7500 quoted to repair a tiny leak (which shouldn't have occurred) at the top of two of the (gas/hydraulic i think) suspension struts. Mclaren B'ham advised all 4 struts would need replacing, they wouldn't replace just the two leaking units! The McLaren infrastructure & support etc is just not up to modern day standards. Needless to say, I no longer own a McLaren.
great video pal, really informative
Thanks
Many valid points made here which have been voiced on several occasions to the highest levels of McLaren management. Considering they have been producing cars for seven years compared to the competition at seventy, what they have achieved is fantastic. Despite some alleged opinions, the cars aren't all as unreliable as some make out, but like in a lot of brands, there are always going to be some owners who have had a disappointing car which has been very troublesome.
Whilst their total focus is on new models, volume sales and catering for VHNW individuals, they need to recognise and act quickly to support the brand with its older models and reduce the cost of ownership. Not all McOwners have bottomless pockets!
But for a driving experience, little gets close.....
Thankyou for your comment. I understand McLaren owners are a very tight knit bunch, like Lotus owners - and I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers, but just shone a bit of light on the issue.
I'd love to get more seat time in a Macca and one day maybe become and owner but my funds will likely be limited so the topic of running costs is always one I hols dear!
Yes and the likes of Ferrari etc have mainly traditional owners who have learnt to deal with the quirky nature of all high end sports cars....so complain less.
Am I right in thinking that Ferrari now offer a 7 year warranty on their cars?
Four years I think. Seven year service plan included
I totally agree, I love the cars and value/performance for money is well above the rest but the service/sales/customer support has been terrible. They simply don't care about forming any meaningful relationships and I suspect it's because they have more customers than they know what to do with. I'll also add than most people go online to complain about things so it's likely not as bad as it seems.
Good point well made, you're right about Porsche too. Great video
Thankyou
I own a Hyundai Veloster R-Spec. I'm not in this market by a LONG shot (Hey, I can dream), but just watched three of your videos in full as they were just that well done and interesting. Great content, I'll be back.
Great video. This is the sort of insight I'm subscribed for
I'm glad perception is more important than reality. For us realists this means we can do our research properly, in depth, listening to all sides and secure the most fantastic true supercar value for money. Bought a 650s spider with warranty, and with Thorney as a main dealer alternative backup. See their 5 million miles in McLarens video and others for a summary of potential issues and costs. EVERY manufacturer produces lemons. TH-camrs moan louder. I am a fantastically happy McLaren owner and the UK MOG has 500 (mostly) similar and growing. McLaren also finally seem to be starting to listen to this fanbase of used car owners and realising that they have to do more to restrict supply and protect residuals. The future is bright. The future is volcano yellow (or orange, red, etc).
Great video, it explains a lot of the reasons why more people don’t own super cars and prefer to build their own “super car” to suit their needs.
Soon be sub 50k !
Really like Mclaren but they don’t have the Lotus / Ferrari fiz 😳
Driven a 540c and a 12c however they both felt a little soulless but quick, bloody quick. If I’m honest on initial impression way better built than a Ferrari.
It’s good that you raised these points which all sound to be on the money, I would not buy a McLaren because of the reputation for depreciation & reliability. I watched this right through - james you’re really very good at these analytical pieces - good work
Thanks Roger. How's the new Porker doing?
New porker is brilliant- mainly as I am using it a lot - too much maybe 😊 next car ? possibly a 992
JAY LOVE THE CHANNEL KEEP THIS COMMING LOVE YOUR CONTENT
Thankyou
Dude you are probably the best car TH-camr to just listen to, Very well done. I just subscribed
Thankyou David, every little helps
@@JayEmmOnCars he said to listen to ..to look at, that's a whole new question hahahaha .
Very good analysis.
The main thing which I think is dangerous for McLaren: They still are a small car manufacturer and for a small car manufacturer having such an extensive car line-up that McLaren has... this can go wrong very quickly. There are the points that you discussed - lots of different models for basically the same purpose which will confuse the customers. Or the quick succession of new model releases which will put off customers with a car that's merely one or two years old and now see the value of it dramatically drop. But there's also the versioning of the cars - keeping spare parts for older models which could cost the manufacturer a lot of money.
McLaren would not be the first company to go bust over these issues.
Reminds me of the tvr lineup in the early 2000's all running same engine similar underpinnings
Congratulations on a very convincing warning to anyone about to buy one of these, but please do remember Mr. JayEmm for your next video, brevity is the soul of wit!
Having watched this video I decided to go and check out the cheapest McLaren in the UK! Here's the link to the video:
th-cam.com/video/k6vePfOXBpE/w-d-xo.html
Refreshingly objective and constructively critical/ complimentary. Have to say you can talk fluently for an impressive amount of time- had no problem listening through to the end. Nice job.
Thankyou Drew
Thanks, great content.Keep Posting
Good video, analysis of Aston Martin next please.
I noticed that repair costs on average for McLaren for all failed or defective parts is around $50K to $70K. That's why people don't want to touch them. QC and reliability is a serious issue. That headache will take away from the joy of owning one. Plus, the cars are not easy to work on and very few shops working on them.
Oh, there is a 2012 12c at a Porsche dealer with 8000 miles on it for $115000 usd and it has been there at least 3 months. A salesman told me that it is impossible to sell.
If you can't afford a £1K McLaren evening then perhaps you aren't really a McLaren customer ;)
Really good thinking on cars, I subscribed. I thought the 12 c was just right why did they change the headlights?
So British cars have not improved much since the Morris in quality.
We're much faster though
Tore Hansen
I liked my MG ZT, a few things went wrong admittedly 😬
LOL!
No greasing points every 2500 miles for starters greased for life UV joints? when they first came out i thought someone was having a laugh,
Erm....yes actually
Have your cars?
Very entertaining as usual. I stayed to the end to see if you mentioned what you were driving, which you did. I hope you weren't too near that 4x4. Was that an Instagram logo on one of your camera angles? It didn't seems to start with jayemm...
Stickers from the previous owner I have not yet replaced
Ahh
Interesting. Thank You.
Great video mate! While McLaren is my favorite brand today, and I am in a position to be able to afford the 720S I REALLY want, I just can't pull the trigger due to almost all the reasons you pointed out here. I just know it would be a terrible financial move.
Thanks, glad to be resonating with buyers here
The reality is they are all just revisions of the 12c. The newer cars now how have a much better margain after years of the same tooling and production runs.. That's why mclaren keep claiming a new model name for each revision
Drive a 12c then a 720s in all scenarios and tell me its 'just a revision'.
@@Driver_88 obviously the car has improved in 6 years and 2 further itterations? With a test mule in between the managed to sell for a million pounds
I'm convinced that despite all of the teething problems, somewhere down the road, the 12C is going to be a real collector car. Get all of the known issues resolved and you're golden. Bargain of the century, especially for a Spider which is nearly 50% of the price of a 458 Spider. The 12C is the first in the line...like the e30 M3 for the M3 range. It'll attain legendary status one day.
urgetodrive agree
So to boil it down, your main complaint is that they aim super cars at super rich people ... that sort of people that don't really care how much their car will drop in price. Well, can't blame them for that tbh. If they aim at an exclusive club for super rich, then it's their business. You can always get a depreciated R8 or Porsche and have your fun anyway :P
Lost over 75 k in 1 year with Mclaren ownership....great car incredible but I will never buy a new Mclaren again!
You can buy a good mclaren for £75000 , you bought a poor value car and sound bitter , fact is if you bought better you could of made £75000 , I bought a £750 astravan sportive off a guy who owns a Porsche specialist dealing in classic Porsches and I made £500 on it so technically the astravan is better because as you are bitter about losing money my van didn't and I was able to do some shifting with it which most mclaren so struggle to do
The point is a year before a 75k McLaren was an impossible idea
I totally agree with the theme of this video, some manufacture needs to realize that they can dominate sales IF they make maintaining their cars affordable. Porsche has done a lot for themselves by offering 6-year / 100,000 mile CPO warranties for $3000. Also, there are serval option to maintain a Porsche other than going to the dealer. This all helps Porsche prices from falling through the floor. BUT I still feel someone could take a huge bite out of Porsche sales IF they undercut Porsche on purchase and maintenance costs. There are people would want a proper sports car but don't want to spend large sums of money. Curious if the new Z4 and Supra will be those cars...
So in 5 years i will get one free and 50 000 cash with it 🤩
Great Video James, you have managed to put into words what I also found when I was researching what to buy and as you know I finished up with a Evora 400, yes there are some silly issues but not stupidly expensive, like Mclaren change the gear box for an oil leak... seriously.
Thanks Graeme
Evora 400 shouldn’t be associated with a Mclaren sorry
My comment was more aimed at James A 12C was on my shopping list until I found the same things as James has described
Fantastic video!
Thankyou!
Msrp229k now you can find them for 90k. In the u.s.
Lambo msrp 269k . You can find them for 120k.
Pretty similar numbers
The reliability issues totally put me off buying one
Are there more left hand drive areas or right hand drive areas in the world?
It's about 65% lhd
So true! A real problem for McLaren this issue of depreciation: They have the best cars in terms of performance but the worst in terms of depreciation... This is what has been holding me off going for Mc Laren. I have own Porsche GT3s, GT3 RS, GT4, Lotus Exige Cup 430, AMG GTR. Even the production limited models like the 675LT face massive depreciation.
8:08 Visible reasons why a supercar is NOT a good fit for the UK: stuck in traffic; traffic backed up 6 deep at a stop; narrow road, 2 lane, couldn't break the speed limit if you wanted to due to traffic; road conditions just wet enough to float the top layer of road oil and make it super-slippery; gray mist and rain reduces opportunity for sunroof or convertible or fast roads or good visibility; that stop and go driving will wear out a clutch knee in no time. Oh, and getting passed by a jogger? Normal.
Do you think McLaren relies on too much electronic gadgetry in their cars which seems to be be very unreliable when they could be using mechanical systems that are much more robust and much more reliable and we'll have longevity as opposed to worn out after 40000 miles and worthless
I passed my driving test late and my first car was a 2006 Mazda RX8 (231)
When I bought that, it was a 7 year old car, and it cost me £2000 with 34,000 miles on the clock. That car cost £26,000 new. So it dropped over 90% of its value in less than 7 years. So I know what you mean about the perception of reliability. Ironically it's been one of the most reliable cars I've owned. It had a massive drinking problem though.
Trying to think if ANY car, depreciated as much as the RX8 did?
My 6 series did the same percentage depreciation but started off as a 70K car, I think any old V12 BMW/Merc can be had for peanuts... Jag XJ-S were worth nothing until the classic car boom.
That watch you were talking about is a Richard Mille RM11-03 McLaren and it is not by McLaren but rather a colaboration with one of the most expensive watchmakers in the world Richard Mille. So this is kind of a totaly different issue, but this watch is ultra limited and costs now around 300k so over the original list price.
And, fittingly, the watch is every bit as ugly as the car.