READ ME: Sorry in advance for the audio, this was recorded last week. No amount of de-esser, compresser, expander, or filters can save this. 😢 Tomorrow's video already sounds way better. I also immediately had an issue because of the background music, so I've re-rendered this. Thank you to "Skeleton Skeleton" and "DinoNuggie545" that found video errors. While editing out the copyrighted image I used, I fixed those two errors too. Also, check out this False Swipe Gaming video about "Why Typing is Close to Everything - The Volcarona Theorem" th-cam.com/video/guALQx6RgQQ/w-d-xo.html Thanks again everyone!
@@jygein4663 TH-cam captions are buggy. I put all the time stamps and for some people they're correct for some people they're not. I really wish they'd stop making changes to things that aren't broken. Like how they made the whole app sad and grey.
I'm really liking Ice/Fighting and Ice/Ground with this new change. They resist the Rock/Ground offensive type combination, which is extremely common, while being great offensive type combinations themselves.
When you rework the Rock type, I would like to chime in and suggest a Ghost resist. Gravestones can be used to ward off evil spirits. And competitively it's great because Ghost currently lacks interaction with the type chart otherwise and is a bit too free to click offensively. This would eliminate the need for Garganacl's ability to provide a Ghost resistance.
Garganacl with this change would have a 4x resist to ghost, whilst immune to status, making ghosts common attacks plus will-o-wisp basically useless against it.
@@Scepers I meant it as a reason not to eliminate the secondary effect to resist ghost type. which wouldn't really make sense as purifying salt is thematic, as salt is used to repel ghosts.
@@mairain6443 Ok true. I thought you were saying that it'd be too powerful as garganacl is already an ou staple that some find problematic. Sorry I misinterpreted you!
I never understood why poison wasn’t super effective against water. It makes sense poison will pollute water and kill what drinks it and in game water is a strong defensive type while poison is a poor offensive one. This could pull them both a little more into balance
It's less so about me being willing, and more so about Pokémon deciding to make the overwhelming majority of Ice types defensive. Ice types easily thrive when they're designed like Chien-Pao or Galarian Darmanitan. But now that we have over 1000+ Pokémon and access to Pokémon can be limited at any time, it's not sustainable to ignore defensive Ice types lest we get stuck with Walrein, Abomasnow, Avalugg, Aurorus as the only available Ice types in a region. I agree poison could use a little love along with Rock, Grass, and bug.
For the “Have you noticed” section, I would say the buffed ice type is now similar to the water type. It’s just that ice is a more offensive water type and water is a more defensive ice type.
imo ice/bug sounds super cool now i can imagine a bulky ice/bug pokemon who can freely switch in on Earthquakes and Headlong Rushes and start dealing massive damage
Personally, I still think the rock neutrality should be swapped to a fighting neutrality. Martial artists breaking ice blocks is unconventional compared to breaking cinder blocks and wood planks, so removing the fighting weakness would make sense. Keeping the rock weakness also makes sense, I think every kid who lives where it snows has either dropped a rock on a frozen puddle, or dropped a sheet of ice on the pavement and watched it shatter. Also the rock weakness would still keep the unique interaction between ice and ground types: Ice types can easily remove a ground type, however they usually need a free switch given by a slow pivot or a sacrifice. But thanks to the new resistances ice has been given, you can try and predict your opponent using a ground type move and go hard into your ice type, however, if your opponent reads this and uses their rock coverage, (which im assuming they're running because 95% of ground types learn either Rock slide, Stone edge or Power gem) you're either going to be chunked, or OHKOed. With a rock neutrality, this interaction is completely removed, and just leads to ice types walling ground types, which a balanced type shouldn't do. (an example of this interaction would be grass, on paper walling and removing water types, but fearing the very common ice coverage, however grass isn't exactly the most balanced type)
Anything to make my favorite Gen 6 Aurorus better is fine by me, also I hope they bring Frostbite back and give a status move version of it to ONLY Ghost and Ice types, screw Water being able to use ice moves.
With all the Changes of this 3 Part Ice Series. . . .Ice Type has became a Reverse Water Type. Mmm, now I'm ready for the 4 Part series for Bug, how to fix it Offensively, Defensively, Changes, and the effect of Duel Typings!
Cloud/Soil’s Tempdua would be absolutely busted in this type chart lmao Ice/Fire typing, all the STAB moves it wants, immunity to hazards thanks to its ability Paw Pads, decent offenses with base 137 speed, diverse coverage on both attacking sides, U-Turn and priority
Definitely most interested in the high-weakness, high-resistance Ice/Fighting pairing here, I love the idea of this kind of risk-reward. Water/Ice might be a little defensively oppressive with an extra resist and two less weaknesses, especially in snow, but overall I really do love these ideas and would be so interested to see how they function in practice. Sadly Gamefreak seems mostly reluctant to make changes to mechanics like the type chart and status effects. The audio was extra ASMR-core this video lmao
What type do you plan on covering next? Currently the faux Ice type has the exact same resistances as Grass, even down to resisting themselves, so perhaps a modified Grass type could be in the works
I'm really curious to see how he handles the Grass type tbh. As much as it needs the buffs, I struggle to think which grass weaknesses or types that resist it to remove since they all thematically make sense.
@@WiiMote070grass is weird. It is centered around drain tanking and drain tanking is immensely powerful in 1v1 games. The types interaction are there to prevent grass types from just sitting on Leech Seed/Giga drain and be unmovable. I think the chart makes sense in that context.
@@WiiMote070I think my approach would be to give it more inherent passive effects like some other types have (i.e dark types being immune to prankster, toxic not missing for poison types, rock types getting +sp def with sandstorm) Grass having more inherent effects than the others could make it stand out I think
I like the ice type changes seen here. If I was to offer my ideas. Here are the changes Low end- make ice type alot harder to learn for most non ice types. Middle- make moves or any effect that deals with fog or gases, that interact with the cold, stronger durning a snow warning. Could also make an icy terrain that offers key buffs instead. High end change remove ice type from the game and make it a part of water type. Could also do this by making bug and grass one type.
I don't know if I was the influence for Ice/Normal Beartic, but I enjoyed seeing it as the placeholder regardless. I understand that some type combinations won't be great, but it just bugs me that we have 9 generations of Pokemon and we still have not used all the type combinations (and some are exclusive to legendaries and Mega Evolutions in which the latter is no longer around).
If you’re reworking another type next, I’d suggest psychic. I think Game Freak totally forgot what they were going for with it and let it become kind of trash
You mentioned reworking bug and I've always felt bug should have some general boosts to moves, more swarming abilities and removal of resistances, as well as a general boost to the type in the way that grass resists powder, dark resists prankster etc. In general I think bugs should make more use of DOT and disruption effects. base bug moves like bug bite, bug buzz, and signal beam should have a chance to cause infestation. string shot, poison thread and infestation should cause effects such as preventing switch for a turn or perhaps slowing down incoming pokemon. Multihit moves should be far more common, X scissor/fury cutter: two weak hits high crit, etc. some kind of ultimate four hit move would also be nice. Bugs with abysmal stats should swarm like wishiwashi. Male combee, butterfree, volbeat, and illumise are all fantastic options for swarming abilities and are shown to attack in swarms in the anime. Moreover these pokemon are completely unusable and deserve better. Bug should not be resisted by fairy, fighting, or ghost but instead deal neutral damage (bringing the number of resisted types to 4), there is minimal lore explanation for these resistances other than making bugs weak in general. changing this typing does not substantially weaken any of the aformentioned types, but opens up vulnerabilities for pokemon like sabeleye, and gallade. abundance of multihit moves means bugs will excel at quickly breaking substitutes and dealing chip damage. even if they die after one hit they may have seccured and advantage. Finally, The shed skin ability present in some of the games should be applied to all bug types, allowing them to purge status on switch or perhaps offer a 20-50% chance to do so. This change will further augment their innate pivot potential and allow bug focused players to easily counter status teams. moreover bugs augmented with spider web, sticky web, or moves that cause infestation, may be able to switch in, chip, and trap opponents exactly how a spider or carnivorous insect would. Update: pivot bugs are critically weak to stealth rocks ensuring balanced gameplay vs hazard teams
The ice buff for Bax made it slightly better XD Bax last I check was ban from OU, Bax alone was already great with the buff I think it'll switch in more then before
@@superequinox4185 well for starters I'd say getting rid of the bug resistance that fairy has, and making bug resist fairy. I like my contextual reasoning but idk if it's the strongest Fairies are usually seen as protectors of nature. The way I see it, they don't command it. They're in service of it. So they have little power over some aspects of wildlife. (Hell I think this could potentially be a reason to give grass a fairy resist, but I'm uncertain about it as is)
I watch less Pokemon videos lately. But this and the Ice Buff videos were FANTASTIC. I really enjoyed both of these videos, surprised you don't have way more followers. I always loved the Ice typing and these were just such enjoyable videos. 10/10
Glad you're enjoying them, it's something I've thought about since 2007. Obviously, I've changed my mind and refined it over the years taking into account new pokémon and new mechanics. Back then I thought of a bunch of offensive buffs. Now that I'm older and more experienced, I can account for doubles, game development, programming, and the business side of things. And it's an easier ask to pitch to Game Freak a mechanic change or type interaction alteration than to ask them to revamp hundreds of pokémon at the base stat level. I'm amazed they touched up some stats for Generation 7, and patched some stats in Generation 9. As for the sub count, it's because I'm relatively new, or at least my sudden focus on generating pokémon content. I've talked for years at length with people about pokémon, and experimented with all sorts of teams and mechanics. Despite all the suggestions for the last 10 or so years, I refused to make a TH-cam channel. On almost every TH-cam video I've watched, there's been tons of comments from people who clearly weren't paying attention, spreading misinformation, people being combative, people who comment before finishing the video, and people who parrot a popular opinion without taking 2 seconds to think. It looked annoying and I didn't think I had the personality for it. I don't like repeating myself, I don't like people putting words in my mouth, and I super duper hate how online you have to put a billion disclaimers in front of things to not be misunderstood. That one guy put it best: "Only on the internet would 'I like pancakes' be misinterpreted as 'I hate waffles'." They could also hear: 'I don't know what waffles are', 'I hate waffles', 'no one should eat waffles', 'you have to eat pancakes', 'i hate pancakes'. However, I've been having fun despite my concerns. Overall, people have been very engaged and attentive. Most people who agree or disagree, respond in a polite and respectful manner and don't take it personally. For people who are mistaken or weren't paying attention, I can just say "Read the pinned comment" or put a timestamp. For people who are really disrespectful to me, I can ignore them. For people disparaging or gatekeepy to other viewers, I can remove those comments. It's overall been a nice experience. I work full-time, so TH-cam is definitely not my highest priority, but still a fun hobby. I could certainly grind out harder to get more subs, but it would have to be really worth it to quit being an IT Director to prioritize TH-cam. Especially since I wouldn't want to get pigeon holed into pokémon when I play so many different game series on so many consoles. Overwatch, Splatoon, Xenoblade, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, Sly Cooper, Spyro, Minecraft. There's tons of ideas and improvements I have for all kinds of games. But the reality is that it's probably better to focus on one genre for growth. I just make sure to pace myself, I don't want to end up resenting what I do, like what happens to some creators. I look forward to having fun and posting what I feel like talking about.
I really loved this series. Ice is my favorite type and the ideas you presented would make me really happy for a future game. You took a really good, restrained game design stance throughout, like not falling for every thematic justification or buffing ice too much. Good content!
I love your changes that youve made! I love the ice type and yes, it does still struggle. With these changes, it will offer some more consistent resistances which will be pretty beneficial with ice dual types.
I really like seeing you continue to explore balance changes like this! Its fun to see differing takes on this stuff as someone who has thought a lot about the type chart
Your changes and points are all great, I'd love to see this. My gut says that the original intent with how the type match ups were distributed was to make each type have a different flavourful playstyle. Ice was intended as a glass cannon type, so could hit a bunch of types well but not take damage, whilst Steel, for instance, was meant to be the opposite, a wall that was tough to hit, but wasn't great at hitting elsewhere, and then Poison, for instance, was to be more about being tricksy with status conditions. The main problem therein being that types are WAY more important defensively than offensively because of how moves are distributed. If moves were limited to just that Pokémon's type, or else perhaps say the bonuses from super effective damage and STAB were switched, it'd be WAY more important to actually be a particular type for its offensive capabilities. In more recent games, it seems like they're looking to buff Ice more in other ways, such as abilities; Gorilla Tactics and Ice Scales, especially, seem intended to be stronger abilities than those more broadly available to buff those Pokémon. Buffs like the differences between hail and snow also seem to be trying to grant buffs in other ways than rebalancing the type chart. But really, it just needs changes like your suggestions...
Ice-types are so weird. In Generation 1 look at all the stats of the Ice-types. All of them, except Jynx, are defensive and/or slow rather than offensive. Strong against 4 types, and weak to 3 types. So it was in-between Ground and Water in terms of weakness vs resistance. So given all this, I'm not sure why everyone thinks Ice was intended to be "glass cannon" type. They certainly are, but it doesnt look like it was Game Freak's active intention, it looks accidental. They remembered to give the weak Bugs low BSTs, right? So if glass cannon is the identity of Ice, then why were most of them designed with high defense and low speed until Generation 4? Steel types had high defense from the start. Ice started Bulky, and it was Ice moves that were good back in Gen 1. Gen 2 added no good ice types, gen 3 added mediocre Ice types. Then finally I Gen 4 we got Weavile, Froslass, and Mamoswine (and then slow, weak ice types). So it took almost 10 years into the series, we got actual "glass cannons" rather than "icy cinderblocks". I don't think glass cannon was the intent, especially if it took 10 years to do so. They realized they messed up and fixed it after 10 years, and everyone praised them as if that was their original vision. Ice might lean into glass cannon now, but it was never the identity of the type, at least not until Gen 4. I think that because the first two games were designed like JRPGs with PvP as an afterthought, they wanted Ice-types to be something you could pick up in the Seafoam Islands and Ice Path specifically for the Dragon-type "bosses" they were placed near. Pokémon ever since has been trying to balance something that was built to be single player, and they still have to build to be single player. So it really is hard for them to balance. Some pokémon and some types are destined to be stinkers. They've gotten a lot better, but the whole identity thing doesn't really exist for anything conceived before Generation 3. Gen 3-5 is when they really figured out what they wanted pokémon to be. What you say for the other types absolutely rings true. I think because a lot of us were kids when the games came out, we weren't able to tell that people were winging it or figuring stuff out, we assumed that everything was perfectly planned. So it's hard to imagine that someone could make such an impressive game and that the things we thought were very well thought out is like 50% well thought out, 30% experimentation, and 20% random stuff slapped together. But their willingness to put it out anyway is why we got the series and I'm grateful.
@@CammyMeeleTea I definitely didn't mean it for the design of Pokémon specifically, based on their stats or moves. More just the type conceptually: like when designing the type chart they planned Ice to be a type for glass cannons, - I'd speculate they were thinking about the visual similarity - then just... didn't apply that to the actual Pokémon stats. Maybe that was the intent, but then they assigned each Ice type stats that made sense for its design and forgot the intent? Maybe there was a disagreement within Game Freak about what the type should be, so they went with the worst of both worlds. To be fair, you mentioned that they got it right in gen IV with Pokémon like Weavile, but Sneasel was at least always designed to be a speedy attacker, and would have been great if the physical/special split was always a thing 🤦♂️
@@CodenameJD Yeah, we agree. Sorry, I get excited about discussions and send walls of text. Pokémon mechanics and history really could be a semester college course.
Awesome vid! I loved all the ideas and this is pretty much exactly what I felt a buff to ice type should be, Im amazed by how well it actually ends up working out! The one thing that hadnt crossed my mind was making it resist Electric, I really like that, as electric is a type that's barely resisted as is, and the logic makes enough sense. Water type is one of the best types in the game and while its not exactly broken I've always felt it needed a bit of a nerf, and this just hits the spot really well! If you ever end up making a video like this for nerfing a type that's considered too strong, I've had two small changes that coinside with my feeling that Fairy is a type that deserves a nerf and psychic is a type that's really fallen behind in terms of usefulness (its resistances are barely of any use, and offensively they're outclassed by other types all across the board, Terastalizing as really showed psychic's shortcomings, as its probably the least desirable tera type, even below bug and ice I'd argue, it just doesnt provide much use). In most fiction/media, Fairies are always friends/work together with bugs, as fairies are often portrayed as small creatures that tame/befrtriend bugs and end up working together. Whenever this isnt the case, Bugs are almost always shown as THREATS to fairies, as big creatures that can trap and eat/kill them. So I quite never understood why on earth they decided Fairy should resist bug, not only does it not make sense, but Bug as is never needed to be resisted by yet another type. So my two recommendations are: - Make Fairy WEAK to Bug. - Make Psychic Resist Fairy. This way bug gains a VERY useful offensive tool ,while still keeping it a somewhat thematically frail type that is resisted by many and weak to many. Fairy, a type with a really good defensive archetype, gains a very niche type as a weakness but that's also more offense oriented than its other two weaknesses. As it currently stands, Fairy's two weaknesses are two types that are commonly slow and defense oriented, not so much offense, whereas bug is typically an offensive fast and frail type. Psychic gains an extremely useful and uncommon resistance, making the type finally have a very interesting and decent defensive use. These two changes also helps balance out hte plethora of Psychic/Fairy pokemon, which while they do get a x4 weakness, they will in turn gain an extremely useful new resistance, this possibly not huring their viability as much.
Hey! I forgot to add my logic behind why Psychic could resist Fairy. I think its pretty straight forward and makes sense. Psychic is often associated with intelligence, most psychic pokemon are stated to be incredibly smart. I think going from that base its easy to draw the connection of "Fantasy vs Science" between the types, the classic "Im too smart and logical to beleive in magic and fairy tales" angle.
I think that you make a good point about how ice doesn’t need an offensive buff, but buffing ice type STAB offensively is still doing way more good, imo.
Abomosnow's still got a lot of draw backs, but an ability like thick fat would help it a lot. Personally I'd go for a fire immunity like Dachsbun, or invent a new ability Vitality/Constitution- the Pokemon takes half damage from fighting and poison due to its large body and extreme environmental training.
I feel like if I had to rework ice instead of making snow increase defense I would make it decrease attack or special atk. I would also bring back frostbite to decrease defense or spdef I quite like the idea of having ice be a “debilitating” attacker or bruiser because ice or cold in general is such a debilitating thing irl. If you’ve read to build a fire you know snow and cold and ice is so damn scary and debilitating
Steel-Ice, Fire-Ice, Ground-Ice become some of the best types in the game. The type balance overly favors ice. This type chart is less balanced than before.
I’m noticing that a lot of the really bad dual types have one thing in common: types that don’t resist themselves. I have a list of balance changes that try to address all the under/overpowered types. Also fixes bad dual types. Ghost and fairy are so good because they are rule breakers. Fairy requires a connection square instead of a triangle to connect its good and bad match ups. Ghost has good matchups with NO rock paper scissors. My changes fix this issue. Grass: Make Super Effective and resistant to Fairy. Super Effective against Electric. Not very effective against dark. Fairy: Make Weak against and not very effective against Grass. Weak and not very effective against psychic. Super Effective and resistant to Ghost. Resist itself. Ghost: Make Weak against and not very effective against Fairy. Ice: Make Resistant to Flying, Dragon, and Ground. Bug: Make super effective against ground. Offensive neutral against fighting. Resistant to dark and psychic. Resist itself. Weak against poison. Rock: Resist itself. Dark: Not very effective against bug. Resist grass. Fighting: Resist itself. Steel: Weak against electric, not very effective against fighting and ground. Poison: Super effective against bug and water. Ground: Resist itself. Flying: Resist itself.
Would love to see bug, rock, or even poison reworked aswell, word be interesting if you made a section of how those would compare if the ice rework you made was in mind
2:11 I'm from Canada and I had the exact same hat on and was eating pancakes with maple syrup, I haven't snickered so loud in my life lmao edit: I am aware Alaska is USA property, but they're pretty close together and do similar things what we do in the West.
Don't worry, it was definitely a nod to Canada rather than Alaska. I called it KalaskaDA, because it sounded better, and used the map of Alaska because the images of Canada all had the flag overlayed.
I can understand thinking Water is weak to Ice. Freeze Dry is a popular move specifically because it's super effective on Water, but it's the only Ice move that does that. The grass part though, that's weird.
Yeah, I've heard people saying from Gen 1- to Gen 4 that they thought/think that Water is (or should be) weak to Ice. Freeze-Dry came along and make a move that specifically is so cold, that it flash freezes Water. Now it's all good.
ive used marriland’s teambuilder many times and im routinely surprised by how the type chart works sometimes (though i still like it for the most part) ghost doesn’t have enough resists against it, psychic is a bit mediocre, poison was only super-effective against grass until gen 6, fairy is too strong, steel is a bit excessive in its resists, sisters types like bug; ice; and rock are not good, ground is mandatory to deal with electric, and electric and water dont have enough resists. these videos really helps balance ice and many other types! other things id change about the types would be make poison strong against water, bug and dark switch their effectiveness against psychic (dark 2x only and bug immune), ghost could get a dark immunity instead of psychic but that seems like too much (but then dark loses a immunity with no gain and ghost still doesn’t have many resisting types, and bug could resist fairy. psychic could be super-effective against steel. your ice change does a lot! electric doing 1/2 damage is brilliant because it gives ice a defensive niche against boltbeam, ice resisting ground balances that type well so that it doesn’t only do 1/2 against grass and bug, water is a bit of a menace as seen in gen 9 meta with defensive mons like dondozo and rain being such a threat. a interesting idea id like to add is adding/making sure each type has their own unique trait (ei. grass is immune to powder moves, water does more damage in rain, electric does more damage is electric terrain, etc). things like bug being immune to confusion or rock types breaking stealth rock would add to the game i think
poison 2x to water cuz of water pollution, bug immune to psychic because a bugs brain would be too small to manipulate, bugs could be seen as rogue forces of nature from the often nature depicted; fae-like fairy type (this is a bit off a stretch), psychic types have been shown many times to bend metal.
I think that if this balance is Made, there should be a electric Pokémon that have a new abilitie, súper conductor. Inmunity to ice, if hit by an ice type move boost special attack +1
Hey Cammy, the tabletop roleplay program Foundry has a fan module for Pokémon Tabletop United, and said module supports changing type interactions. I have actually punched in one or two of your recommendations to see how some Pokémon were effected.
Ooooo, thanks for the info, that'll be super useful, like really useful. It would save time editing in the hypothetical type interaction videos, and make it clearer for viewers too.
@@CammyMeeleTea if you need any help figuring it out I can show you what I know. PTU is already obscure on its own, so the foundry addon is very undocumented.
I just watched and left a comment on the ice buffs video, but since this was uploaded only a few hours ago I might as well copy-pase it here: I don't agree with the ice-rock mutual neutrality: You smash a pebble and an ice cube of similar size together, the ice cube shatters. You throw a boulder at a glacier and it's gonna leave a dent. But then glaciers will tore through whole continents overtime. The bit about glaciers tearing through land... That's more of an argument for ground, not rock. But even if we apply it to rock, if anything that sounds like the two types should be mutually super-effective, not neutral. Also, you refused to give ice a flying res because flying was already a balanced type. But... Electric is a fair amount worse than flying, is it not? In raw numbers it seems balanced, but the problem is that the one type with an electric immunity happens to also be one of the best and most common types in the game in ground. It doesn't help that everything and their mother also carries earthquake coverage, so electric isn't that great defensively either. Flying doesn't have to deal with immunities. Steel is very common like ground, but it's not necessarily a hard counter to flying like ground is to electric. There's also the moveset to keep in mind: Flying's best offensive moves are Hurricane and Brave Bird. Electric's are Thunder, which is very comparable to Hurricane, and Wild Charge which sucks. Most flying types also get near-exclusive access to Roost and Tailwind, a priviledge unmatched by electrics since their only relevant status move in t-wave has a wider distribution. The only thing you could argue in favor of electric is the stealth rocks neutrality, but then again flying has an immunity to spikes and t-spikes to compensate. Considering the pokemon that have been good and relevant historically even in singles, I think flying is the clear winner. Lastly, I would limit ice to only two extra resistances. It was clearly created as a glass-cannon type and I'd rather conserve some of that spirit. So I'd either give it water+ground or water+flying resistances.
As he says in the video (or comment I don't remember), just because something makes sense thematically, doesn't mean it makes for an enjoyable game experience/balance. Having another weakness sucks for both types. For the elec-flying debate I sorta agree. Though Electric gets volt switch, hurricane and thunder have the same niche (rain teams), and hit neutrally a common defensive typing in Steel. There's also the bolt-beam thingy.
I'd be happy to try it. I'm the type of person who likes to put every option on the table and try everything until it works. That's why I liked the experimental modes in Overwatch and Minecraft mods. You can test wild stuff, see how it performs, and then implement what is fair. Rather than just putting it in a real game and forcing people to deal with it.
@@CammyMeeleTea Thanks. If I ever finished it, it would ultimately be a remap of Hoenn that focuses on Gens 1-3 and the evolutions. Some buffs to Bug and some nerfs to Fairy as well.
personally, i would make ice resist water and flying, for balance and thematic reasons. water because throwing water onto an iceberg turns it into more ice, and flying because good luck flying a plane in a snowstorm, plus birds fly south for the winter. that said, here's the hypothetical standing of ice types under my own ice buffs: ice/normal: still bad, but resists things now ice/fire: no longer weak to water, but stealth rock still destroys it ice/water: completely walls water ice/electric: completely counters flying ice/grass: walls water and stands a chance against flying pure ice: has 4 weaknesses and 3 resistances, making it a more effective glass cannon ice/fighting: even more of a glass cannon like you said, but is no longer threatened by flying ice/poison: same weakness count, but more resistances ice/ground: no longer weak to water, finally threatens fliers ice/flying: generally easier time getting in, but still rocks weak ice/psychic: gets 2 much needed resistances that aren't its own types ice/bug: stands a chance against fliers ice/rock: counters fliers and no longer destroyed by water. great for hisuian avalugg i guess. ice/ghost: nothing really changes except it's a bit more flexible to switch in ice/dragon: resists flying and walls water ice/dark: another glassy type combo that benefits from more resists. weavile rises again ice/steel: still a bad combo, but at least flying types won't be a problem ice/fairy: simply has more resistances maybe i could also remove a weakness like fighting or rock, but i don't want ice to become too strong. snowy weather already boosts its defense, so that plus resistances to water and flying make avalugg a better defender, weavile a better attacker, and mamoswine just...better.
I compare the defensive aspects of ice with the defensive aspects of grass and bug, most type combos are either eh or garbage defensively with no in between, but combined with steel they are now godlike for the most part, 4x fire weakness is still pretty bad though
I can sort of see I’ve resisting electic… I think it makes more sense for it to resist grass. I think what you need to do is rebalance multiple types. Eg, rock should not be weak defensively. That is the type that should resist electric.
I think massive types rebalance are just going to have unintended cinsequences, more than anything else. Like, if you nerf water and Ground while also buffing Ice and Bug wich is commonly proposed, you will probably end up with Fire Types running rampant, because things that counter them are less popular than before and things they counter are more popular. And sure, people also want to buff rock and nerf steel, but they still gain much more than they lose. At that point you will probably have to nerf Fire in some way, but by doing so you ankther type that Fire was keeping in check would emerge. Long story short, i don't think changes to type matchups are the correct way of balancing types. Type locked moves and abilities imo are better because they don't accidentally break different mons, usually. Bug types would be great if they had remotely decent stats on Quiver Dance alone. Their main problem is most of them have garbage BST.
@@noukan42 Yes every change to a type will cause changes to other types in a domino effect. That dosent mean it shouldnt done though. By numerically ranking the value of each type (SE = +1, NVE = -1, Resist = +1, Weakness = -1) you can see which types are better and worse. By making one change at a time, you can ensure that every type reaches a rank of 0. That means that the type has the same number of positives (Super Effectives and Resistances) as it does negatives (weaknesses and NVEs). I have actually done this myself - all types are the perfect 0. However, then I changed it to remove non-intuitive interactions, and preserve only logical interactions - but I still kept it that every type is either -1, 0 or +1. So thats significantly more balanced than vanilla, with less illogical interactions.
@@umwha but balance is much more than that. Bugs have Quiver Dance, Sticky Web, Tinded Lens, U-Turn, acess to all status condition, and so on. They are given a lot of tools that only makes sense in the context of the type being otherwise bad. Tinded Lens on a decent attacking type would be extrely difficult to deal with. On the other side, Dragon is not that good. Having 600 BST on most of it's member is good. People focus way too much on effectiveness but types are not just that, they are also: average BST and average distribution of it, aviable moves inckuding common coverage(Fire getting solarbeam, ground getting stone edge and so on), exclusive or near exclusive moves, exclusive or near exclusive abilities and so on. You cannot discuss, say, grass types whitout discussing that they have Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Strenght sap. Give them average effectiveness and you create an horde of drain tanks in every metagame that are even more annoying than normal stall.
I feel like it's too strong defensively. Ground, ice, and water are already a great set of resistances, and it brings it to an equal amount of weaknesses and resistances with steel also not being a premier offensive type. Electric having 4 resists and an immunity to fight against with only 2 super effective types to attack feels like too much. You could also consider giving it back its rock weakness, but I don't like that idea as much.
Counterpoint: one of the resistances is itself, which is a bit less beneficial, and the other is Grass, which is not a great typing either. Dragon is not that common, so the biggest thing it really worries about is Ground. But, yeah, maybe another type weak to Electric would be nice.
@@WiiMote070 Dark, water, and fire are three examples of types that resist themselves. They're all good offensive types. Ice would be both good offensively and defensively with my change. Resisting yourself definitely isn't a game over for a typing. Hitting dragon, ground, grass, and flying is good offensively. Ice has been known to be a good offensive typing for a long time. I didn't change its offenses. It now also gets to be a good defensive type with my proposal. Making it good offensively and defensively feels like a good place to stop. It doesn't need an electric resistance to get there, and electric becomes too disadvantaged offensively with another resistance. I think what I proposed works well on its own, but I didn't focus on other types to be specifically within the spirit of the video. This isn't a complete reworking of types. It's just the ice type.
@xanderschablowsky9607 I think what I find most interesting here is the fact t hat you're the only person I've come across that thinks adding types to resist Electric would cripple it too much. Most people I've seen think it's a bit too offensive, so this is an interesting perspective
@@WiiMote070 It's not just about electric. Ice is already good offensively. Simply making it good defensively should be enough. You don't need to go over that minimum, and electric would be going over.
I think these buffs are a bit too far. Ice should still be weak defensively, just not cripplingly bad. Dropping one of the resistances would probably be the sweet spot. I don’t really get the reasoning for ice resisting ground, so maybe change that back to neutral?
Grass isn't a bad type. You have high value resistances to Water, Ground, and Electric, you're one of two types to hit Water for super effective while also smacking around another one of the consistently best types in the game in Ground, you're immune to a couple of the best moves in the game in Leech Seed, Rage Powder, and Spore/Sleep Powder, and it's not like Poison, Bug, or even Flying coverage is all that common
![ทางเดินชีวิต - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ x อ.ไข่ มาลีฮวนน่า [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1f3wcG16dd4/mqdefault.jpg)
READ ME:
Sorry in advance for the audio, this was recorded last week. No amount of de-esser, compresser, expander, or filters can save this. 😢
Tomorrow's video already sounds way better.
I also immediately had an issue because of the background music, so I've re-rendered this. Thank you to "Skeleton Skeleton" and "DinoNuggie545" that found video errors. While editing out the copyrighted image I used, I fixed those two errors too.
Also, check out this False Swipe Gaming video about "Why Typing is Close to Everything - The Volcarona Theorem"
th-cam.com/video/guALQx6RgQQ/w-d-xo.html
Thanks again everyone!
yo just wondering why all the captions are like in one caption at the start lmao
@@jygein4663 TH-cam captions are buggy. I put all the time stamps and for some people they're correct for some people they're not.
I really wish they'd stop making changes to things that aren't broken. Like how they made the whole app sad and grey.
I'm really liking Ice/Fighting and Ice/Ground with this new change. They resist the Rock/Ground offensive type combination, which is extremely common, while being great offensive type combinations themselves.
At long last… a mon to dethrone landorous T?
Still 4x weak to fighting on ice steel on the thumbnail
@@brastionskywarrior6951 He can still run Superpower. (Unless he doesn't get it in Gen IX). 🥲
EdgeQuake-resistant mons need to be more common.
When you rework the Rock type, I would like to chime in and suggest a Ghost resist. Gravestones can be used to ward off evil spirits. And competitively it's great because Ghost currently lacks interaction with the type chart otherwise and is a bit too free to click offensively. This would eliminate the need for Garganacl's ability to provide a Ghost resistance.
Garganacl with this change would have a 4x resist to ghost, whilst immune to status, making ghosts common attacks plus will-o-wisp basically useless against it.
@@mairain6443 they said this would eliminate the need for that addition to garganacl's ability meaning it would stay where it is right now.
@@Scepers I meant it as a reason not to eliminate the secondary effect to resist ghost type.
which wouldn't really make sense as purifying salt is thematic, as salt is used to repel ghosts.
@@mairain6443 Ok true. I thought you were saying that it'd be too powerful as garganacl is already an ou staple that some find problematic. Sorry I misinterpreted you!
bro is buffing garganacl
Your buffs would make a great addition to Pokémon games
I appreciate that, though it definitely needs testing and changes for some other types.
If you're willing to give the glass cannon type a defensive profile, you should fix poison lackluster offensive chart.
I never understood why poison wasn’t super effective against water. It makes sense poison will pollute water and kill what drinks it and in game water is a strong defensive type while poison is a poor offensive one. This could pull them both a little more into balance
@@2two10one5 Isn't water used to dillute the effectiveness of poisons and toxins, on the other hand?
It's less so about me being willing, and more so about Pokémon deciding to make the overwhelming majority of Ice types defensive.
Ice types easily thrive when they're designed like Chien-Pao or Galarian Darmanitan. But now that we have over 1000+ Pokémon and access to Pokémon can be limited at any time, it's not sustainable to ignore defensive Ice types lest we get stuck with Walrein, Abomasnow, Avalugg, Aurorus as the only available Ice types in a region.
I agree poison could use a little love along with Rock, Grass, and bug.
For the “Have you noticed” section, I would say the buffed ice type is now similar to the water type. It’s just that ice is a more offensive water type and water is a more defensive ice type.
imo ice/bug sounds super cool now
i can imagine a bulky ice/bug pokemon who can freely switch in on Earthquakes and Headlong Rushes and start dealing massive damage
Personally, I still think the rock neutrality should be swapped to a fighting neutrality.
Martial artists breaking ice blocks is unconventional compared to breaking cinder blocks and wood planks, so removing the fighting weakness would make sense.
Keeping the rock weakness also makes sense, I think every kid who lives where it snows has either dropped a rock on a frozen puddle, or dropped a sheet of ice on the pavement and watched it shatter.
Also the rock weakness would still keep the unique interaction between ice and ground types:
Ice types can easily remove a ground type, however they usually need a free switch given by a slow pivot or a sacrifice. But thanks to the new resistances ice has been given, you can try and predict your opponent using a ground type move and go hard into your ice type, however, if your opponent reads this and uses their rock coverage, (which im assuming they're running because 95% of ground types learn either Rock slide, Stone edge or Power gem) you're either going to be chunked, or OHKOed.
With a rock neutrality, this interaction is completely removed, and just leads to ice types walling ground types, which a balanced type shouldn't do.
(an example of this interaction would be grass, on paper walling and removing water types, but fearing the very common ice coverage, however grass isn't exactly the most balanced type)
A well balanced type should fear the type it resists?
Anything to make my favorite Gen 6 Aurorus better is fine by me, also I hope they bring Frostbite back and give a status move version of it to ONLY Ghost and Ice types, screw Water being able to use ice moves.
With all the Changes of this 3 Part Ice Series. . . .Ice Type has became a Reverse Water Type.
Mmm, now I'm ready for the 4 Part series for Bug, how to fix it Offensively, Defensively, Changes, and the effect of Duel Typings!
Some types I feel like could have their own series. And some types I feel like need to be reworked at the same time in one video.
Cloud/Soil’s Tempdua would be absolutely busted in this type chart lmao
Ice/Fire typing, all the STAB moves it wants, immunity to hazards thanks to its ability Paw Pads, decent offenses with base 137 speed, diverse coverage on both attacking sides, U-Turn and priority
Definitely most interested in the high-weakness, high-resistance Ice/Fighting pairing here, I love the idea of this kind of risk-reward. Water/Ice might be a little defensively oppressive with an extra resist and two less weaknesses, especially in snow, but overall I really do love these ideas and would be so interested to see how they function in practice. Sadly Gamefreak seems mostly reluctant to make changes to mechanics like the type chart and status effects. The audio was extra ASMR-core this video lmao
One thing i was thinking is to make ice moves less common among all water types, i mean with a bulky water type you barely need ice mons.
What type do you plan on covering next? Currently the faux Ice type has the exact same resistances as Grass, even down to resisting themselves, so perhaps a modified Grass type could be in the works
I'm really curious to see how he handles the Grass type tbh. As much as it needs the buffs, I struggle to think which grass weaknesses or types that resist it to remove since they all thematically make sense.
@@WiiMote070grass is weird. It is centered around drain tanking and drain tanking is immensely powerful in 1v1 games. The types interaction are there to prevent grass types from just sitting on Leech Seed/Giga drain and be unmovable.
I think the chart makes sense in that context.
@noukan42 Exactly. Which is why it's hard to improve it. It may be the better type defensively, but just as many types resist grass as they do bug
@@WiiMote070I think my approach would be to give it more inherent passive effects like some other types have (i.e dark types being immune to prankster, toxic not missing for poison types, rock types getting +sp def with sandstorm)
Grass having more inherent effects than the others could make it stand out I think
I like the ice type changes seen here. If I was to offer my ideas. Here are the changes
Low end- make ice type alot harder to learn for most non ice types.
Middle- make moves or any effect that deals with fog or gases, that interact with the cold, stronger durning a snow warning. Could also make an icy terrain that offers key buffs instead.
High end change remove ice type from the game and make it a part of water type. Could also do this by making bug and grass one type.
I don't know if I was the influence for Ice/Normal Beartic, but I enjoyed seeing it as the placeholder regardless. I understand that some type combinations won't be great, but it just bugs me that we have 9 generations of Pokemon and we still have not used all the type combinations (and some are exclusive to legendaries and Mega Evolutions in which the latter is no longer around).
You most certainly were, I was hoping you came back and got to see it.
I do miss the Dragon/Fairy Type Mega Altaria.
I love this series great job 👍
If you’re reworking another type next, I’d suggest psychic. I think Game Freak totally forgot what they were going for with it and let it become kind of trash
You mentioned reworking bug and I've always felt bug should have some general boosts to moves, more swarming abilities and removal of resistances, as well as a general boost to the type in the way that grass resists powder, dark resists prankster etc.
In general I think bugs should make more use of DOT and disruption effects. base bug moves like bug bite, bug buzz, and signal beam should have a chance to cause infestation. string shot, poison thread and infestation should cause effects such as preventing switch for a turn or perhaps slowing down incoming pokemon. Multihit moves should be far more common, X scissor/fury cutter: two weak hits high crit, etc. some kind of ultimate four hit move would also be nice.
Bugs with abysmal stats should swarm like wishiwashi. Male combee, butterfree, volbeat, and illumise are all fantastic options for swarming abilities and are shown to attack in swarms in the anime. Moreover these pokemon are completely unusable and deserve better.
Bug should not be resisted by fairy, fighting, or ghost but instead deal neutral damage (bringing the number of resisted types to 4), there is minimal lore explanation for these resistances other than making bugs weak in general. changing this typing does not substantially weaken any of the aformentioned types, but opens up vulnerabilities for pokemon like sabeleye, and gallade. abundance of multihit moves means bugs will excel at quickly breaking substitutes and dealing chip damage. even if they die after one hit they may have seccured and advantage.
Finally, The shed skin ability present in some of the games should be applied to all bug types, allowing them to purge status on switch or perhaps offer a 20-50% chance to do so. This change will further augment their innate pivot potential and allow bug focused players to easily counter status teams. moreover bugs augmented with spider web, sticky web, or moves that cause infestation, may be able to switch in, chip, and trap opponents exactly how a spider or carnivorous insect would.
Update: pivot bugs are critically weak to stealth rocks ensuring balanced gameplay vs hazard teams
The ice buff for Bax made it slightly better XD
Bax last I check was ban from OU, Bax alone was already great with the buff I think it'll switch in more then before
Somebody, send this guy's videos to people important at the Pokémon Company! IMMEDIATELY!
Oh no, not yet. These are just brainstormed ideas, they need to be tested first. 🤣
ur videos are so well explained! id love to see you talk about your opinions on the introduction of the fairy type at some point :)
Crabominable is eating well.
I'd like to see you tackle the bug type next. That type desperately needs all the help it can get.
true. there has to be a better way to make bug types underdogs without making them a liability to use
@@superequinox4185 well for starters I'd say getting rid of the bug resistance that fairy has, and making bug resist fairy. I like my contextual reasoning but idk if it's the strongest
Fairies are usually seen as protectors of nature. The way I see it, they don't command it. They're in service of it. So they have little power over some aspects of wildlife. (Hell I think this could potentially be a reason to give grass a fairy resist, but I'm uncertain about it as is)
Gosh i loved the changes, ice water making an ice pokemon only have to worry about 2 super effective types is so fun too
I watch less Pokemon videos lately. But this and the Ice Buff videos were FANTASTIC. I really enjoyed both of these videos, surprised you don't have way more followers. I always loved the Ice typing and these were just such enjoyable videos. 10/10
Glad you're enjoying them, it's something I've thought about since 2007. Obviously, I've changed my mind and refined it over the years taking into account new pokémon and new mechanics. Back then I thought of a bunch of offensive buffs. Now that I'm older and more experienced, I can account for doubles, game development, programming, and the business side of things. And it's an easier ask to pitch to Game Freak a mechanic change or type interaction alteration than to ask them to revamp hundreds of pokémon at the base stat level. I'm amazed they touched up some stats for Generation 7, and patched some stats in Generation 9.
As for the sub count, it's because I'm relatively new, or at least my sudden focus on generating pokémon content. I've talked for years at length with people about pokémon, and experimented with all sorts of teams and mechanics. Despite all the suggestions for the last 10 or so years, I refused to make a TH-cam channel. On almost every TH-cam video I've watched, there's been tons of comments from people who clearly weren't paying attention, spreading misinformation, people being combative, people who comment before finishing the video, and people who parrot a popular opinion without taking 2 seconds to think. It looked annoying and I didn't think I had the personality for it. I don't like repeating myself, I don't like people putting words in my mouth, and I super duper hate how online you have to put a billion disclaimers in front of things to not be misunderstood. That one guy put it best: "Only on the internet would 'I like pancakes' be misinterpreted as 'I hate waffles'." They could also hear: 'I don't know what waffles are', 'I hate waffles', 'no one should eat waffles', 'you have to eat pancakes', 'i hate pancakes'. However, I've been having fun despite my concerns. Overall, people have been very engaged and attentive. Most people who agree or disagree, respond in a polite and respectful manner and don't take it personally. For people who are mistaken or weren't paying attention, I can just say "Read the pinned comment" or put a timestamp. For people who are really disrespectful to me, I can ignore them. For people disparaging or gatekeepy to other viewers, I can remove those comments. It's overall been a nice experience.
I work full-time, so TH-cam is definitely not my highest priority, but still a fun hobby. I could certainly grind out harder to get more subs, but it would have to be really worth it to quit being an IT Director to prioritize TH-cam. Especially since I wouldn't want to get pigeon holed into pokémon when I play so many different game series on so many consoles. Overwatch, Splatoon, Xenoblade, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, Sly Cooper, Spyro, Minecraft. There's tons of ideas and improvements I have for all kinds of games. But the reality is that it's probably better to focus on one genre for growth. I just make sure to pace myself, I don't want to end up resenting what I do, like what happens to some creators. I look forward to having fun and posting what I feel like talking about.
I really loved this series. Ice is my favorite type and the ideas you presented would make me really happy for a future game. You took a really good, restrained game design stance throughout, like not falling for every thematic justification or buffing ice too much. Good content!
Your voice is so soft and nice to fall asleep to
I love your changes that youve made! I love the ice type and yes, it does still struggle. With these changes, it will offer some more consistent resistances which will be pretty beneficial with ice dual types.
I really like seeing you continue to explore balance changes like this! Its fun to see differing takes on this stuff as someone who has thought a lot about the type chart
Your changes and points are all great, I'd love to see this.
My gut says that the original intent with how the type match ups were distributed was to make each type have a different flavourful playstyle. Ice was intended as a glass cannon type, so could hit a bunch of types well but not take damage, whilst Steel, for instance, was meant to be the opposite, a wall that was tough to hit, but wasn't great at hitting elsewhere, and then Poison, for instance, was to be more about being tricksy with status conditions. The main problem therein being that types are WAY more important defensively than offensively because of how moves are distributed. If moves were limited to just that Pokémon's type, or else perhaps say the bonuses from super effective damage and STAB were switched, it'd be WAY more important to actually be a particular type for its offensive capabilities.
In more recent games, it seems like they're looking to buff Ice more in other ways, such as abilities; Gorilla Tactics and Ice Scales, especially, seem intended to be stronger abilities than those more broadly available to buff those Pokémon. Buffs like the differences between hail and snow also seem to be trying to grant buffs in other ways than rebalancing the type chart. But really, it just needs changes like your suggestions...
Ice-types are so weird. In Generation 1 look at all the stats of the Ice-types. All of them, except Jynx, are defensive and/or slow rather than offensive. Strong against 4 types, and weak to 3 types. So it was in-between Ground and Water in terms of weakness vs resistance. So given all this, I'm not sure why everyone thinks Ice was intended to be "glass cannon" type. They certainly are, but it doesnt look like it was Game Freak's active intention, it looks accidental. They remembered to give the weak Bugs low BSTs, right? So if glass cannon is the identity of Ice, then why were most of them designed with high defense and low speed until Generation 4? Steel types had high defense from the start. Ice started Bulky, and it was Ice moves that were good back in Gen 1. Gen 2 added no good ice types, gen 3 added mediocre Ice types. Then finally I Gen 4 we got Weavile, Froslass, and Mamoswine (and then slow, weak ice types). So it took almost 10 years into the series, we got actual "glass cannons" rather than "icy cinderblocks". I don't think glass cannon was the intent, especially if it took 10 years to do so. They realized they messed up and fixed it after 10 years, and everyone praised them as if that was their original vision. Ice might lean into glass cannon now, but it was never the identity of the type, at least not until Gen 4.
I think that because the first two games were designed like JRPGs with PvP as an afterthought, they wanted Ice-types to be something you could pick up in the Seafoam Islands and Ice Path specifically for the Dragon-type "bosses" they were placed near.
Pokémon ever since has been trying to balance something that was built to be single player, and they still have to build to be single player. So it really is hard for them to balance. Some pokémon and some types are destined to be stinkers. They've gotten a lot better, but the whole identity thing doesn't really exist for anything conceived before Generation 3. Gen 3-5 is when they really figured out what they wanted pokémon to be.
What you say for the other types absolutely rings true. I think because a lot of us were kids when the games came out, we weren't able to tell that people were winging it or figuring stuff out, we assumed that everything was perfectly planned. So it's hard to imagine that someone could make such an impressive game and that the things we thought were very well thought out is like 50% well thought out, 30% experimentation, and 20% random stuff slapped together. But their willingness to put it out anyway is why we got the series and I'm grateful.
@@CammyMeeleTea I definitely didn't mean it for the design of Pokémon specifically, based on their stats or moves. More just the type conceptually: like when designing the type chart they planned Ice to be a type for glass cannons, - I'd speculate they were thinking about the visual similarity - then just... didn't apply that to the actual Pokémon stats. Maybe that was the intent, but then they assigned each Ice type stats that made sense for its design and forgot the intent? Maybe there was a disagreement within Game Freak about what the type should be, so they went with the worst of both worlds.
To be fair, you mentioned that they got it right in gen IV with Pokémon like Weavile, but Sneasel was at least always designed to be a speedy attacker, and would have been great if the physical/special split was always a thing 🤦♂️
@@CodenameJD Yeah, we agree. Sorry, I get excited about discussions and send walls of text. Pokémon mechanics and history really could be a semester college course.
@@CammyMeeleTea Right there with you!
Awesome vid! I loved all the ideas and this is pretty much exactly what I felt a buff to ice type should be, Im amazed by how well it actually ends up working out! The one thing that hadnt crossed my mind was making it resist Electric, I really like that, as electric is a type that's barely resisted as is, and the logic makes enough sense. Water type is one of the best types in the game and while its not exactly broken I've always felt it needed a bit of a nerf, and this just hits the spot really well!
If you ever end up making a video like this for nerfing a type that's considered too strong, I've had two small changes that coinside with my feeling that Fairy is a type that deserves a nerf and psychic is a type that's really fallen behind in terms of usefulness (its resistances are barely of any use, and offensively they're outclassed by other types all across the board, Terastalizing as really showed psychic's shortcomings, as its probably the least desirable tera type, even below bug and ice I'd argue, it just doesnt provide much use).
In most fiction/media, Fairies are always friends/work together with bugs, as fairies are often portrayed as small creatures that tame/befrtriend bugs and end up working together. Whenever this isnt the case, Bugs are almost always shown as THREATS to fairies, as big creatures that can trap and eat/kill them. So I quite never understood why on earth they decided Fairy should resist bug, not only does it not make sense, but Bug as is never needed to be resisted by yet another type.
So my two recommendations are:
- Make Fairy WEAK to Bug.
- Make Psychic Resist Fairy.
This way bug gains a VERY useful offensive tool ,while still keeping it a somewhat thematically frail type that is resisted by many and weak to many.
Fairy, a type with a really good defensive archetype, gains a very niche type as a weakness but that's also more offense oriented than its other two weaknesses. As it currently stands, Fairy's two weaknesses are two types that are commonly slow and defense oriented, not so much offense, whereas bug is typically an offensive fast and frail type.
Psychic gains an extremely useful and uncommon resistance, making the type finally have a very interesting and decent defensive use.
These two changes also helps balance out hte plethora of Psychic/Fairy pokemon, which while they do get a x4 weakness, they will in turn gain an extremely useful new resistance, this possibly not huring their viability as much.
Hey! I forgot to add my logic behind why Psychic could resist Fairy.
I think its pretty straight forward and makes sense. Psychic is often associated with intelligence, most psychic pokemon are stated to be incredibly smart. I think going from that base its easy to draw the connection of "Fantasy vs Science" between the types, the classic "Im too smart and logical to beleive in magic and fairy tales" angle.
I think that you make a good point about how ice doesn’t need an offensive buff, but buffing ice type STAB offensively is still doing way more good, imo.
Abomosnow's still got a lot of draw backs, but an ability like thick fat would help it a lot. Personally I'd go for a fire immunity like Dachsbun, or invent a new ability Vitality/Constitution- the Pokemon takes half damage from fighting and poison due to its large body and extreme environmental training.
The issue with that is the fact that it would be overshadowed by snow warning
@@SoggyWafflesXp valid
I feel like if I had to rework ice instead of making snow increase defense I would make it decrease attack or special atk. I would also bring back frostbite to decrease defense or spdef
I quite like the idea of having ice be a “debilitating” attacker or bruiser because ice or cold in general is such a debilitating thing irl. If you’ve read to build a fire you know snow and cold and ice is so damn scary and debilitating
I think a type node chart will be needed based on your changes if you wanna build off of this for future content.
Steel-Ice, Fire-Ice, Ground-Ice become some of the best types in the game. The type balance overly favors ice. This type chart is less balanced than before.
bug type bug type bug type bug type bug type
I’m noticing that a lot of the really bad dual types have one thing in common: types that don’t resist themselves.
I have a list of balance changes that try to address all the under/overpowered types. Also fixes bad dual types.
Ghost and fairy are so good because they are rule breakers. Fairy requires a connection square instead of a triangle to connect its good and bad match ups. Ghost has good matchups with NO rock paper scissors. My changes fix this issue.
Grass: Make Super Effective and resistant to Fairy. Super Effective against Electric. Not very effective against dark.
Fairy: Make Weak against and not very effective against Grass. Weak and not very effective against psychic. Super Effective and resistant to Ghost. Resist itself.
Ghost: Make Weak against and not very effective against Fairy.
Ice: Make Resistant to Flying, Dragon, and Ground.
Bug: Make super effective against ground. Offensive neutral against fighting. Resistant to dark and psychic. Resist itself. Weak against poison.
Rock: Resist itself.
Dark: Not very effective against bug. Resist grass.
Fighting: Resist itself.
Steel: Weak against electric, not very effective against fighting and ground.
Poison: Super effective against bug and water.
Ground: Resist itself.
Flying: Resist itself.
Would love to see bug, rock, or even poison reworked aswell, word be interesting if you made a section of how those would compare if the ice rework you made was in mind
The ice and fire combo could be called something like frostflame
2:11 I'm from Canada and I had the exact same hat on and was eating pancakes with maple syrup, I haven't snickered so loud in my life lmao
edit: I am aware Alaska is USA property, but they're pretty close together and do similar things what we do in the West.
Don't worry, it was definitely a nod to Canada rather than Alaska. I called it KalaskaDA, because it sounded better, and used the map of Alaska because the images of Canada all had the flag overlayed.
Probably the worst thing about type reworks is how the modifications have to be re-learned. People will get confused with old type chart very often.
I’d like your video on how you’d rework Bug and Grass. It’d make Crabominable usable if it resisted both BoltBeam and EdgeQuake.
I can understand thinking Water is weak to Ice. Freeze Dry is a popular move specifically because it's super effective on Water, but it's the only Ice move that does that.
The grass part though, that's weird.
Yeah, I've heard people saying from Gen 1- to Gen 4 that they thought/think that Water is (or should be) weak to Ice. Freeze-Dry came along and make a move that specifically is so cold, that it flash freezes Water. Now it's all good.
ice/rock
Loses rock, ground, and water weakness and resist eletric
Still has 2 4 times weaknesses and Grass weak.
ive used marriland’s teambuilder many times and im routinely surprised by how the type chart works sometimes (though i still like it for the most part)
ghost doesn’t have enough resists against it, psychic is a bit mediocre, poison was only super-effective against grass until gen 6, fairy is too strong, steel is a bit excessive in its resists, sisters types like bug; ice; and rock are not good, ground is mandatory to deal with electric, and electric and water dont have enough resists.
these videos really helps balance ice and many other types! other things id change about the types would be make poison strong against water, bug and dark switch their effectiveness against psychic (dark 2x only and bug immune), ghost could get a dark immunity instead of psychic but that seems like too much (but then dark loses a immunity with no gain and ghost still doesn’t have many resisting types, and bug could resist fairy. psychic could be super-effective against steel.
your ice change does a lot! electric doing 1/2 damage is brilliant because it gives ice a defensive niche against boltbeam, ice resisting ground balances that type well so that it doesn’t only do 1/2 against grass and bug, water is a bit of a menace as seen in gen 9 meta with defensive mons like dondozo and rain being such a threat.
a interesting idea id like to add is adding/making sure each type has their own unique trait (ei. grass is immune to powder moves, water does more damage in rain, electric does more damage is electric terrain, etc). things like bug being immune to confusion or rock types breaking stealth rock would add to the game i think
poison 2x to water cuz of water pollution, bug immune to psychic because a bugs brain would be too small to manipulate, bugs could be seen as rogue forces of nature from the often nature depicted; fae-like fairy type (this is a bit off a stretch), psychic types have been shown many times to bend metal.
realistically it makes no sense for ice to be weak to fire if fire isn't weak to ice. So either both are neutral or both are super effective.
I think that if this balance is Made, there should be a electric Pokémon that have a new abilitie, súper conductor.
Inmunity to ice, if hit by an ice type move boost special attack +1
Hey Cammy, the tabletop roleplay program Foundry has a fan module for Pokémon Tabletop United, and said module supports changing type interactions. I have actually punched in one or two of your recommendations to see how some Pokémon were effected.
Ooooo, thanks for the info, that'll be super useful, like really useful. It would save time editing in the hypothetical type interaction videos, and make it clearer for viewers too.
@@CammyMeeleTea if you need any help figuring it out I can show you what I know. PTU is already obscure on its own, so the foundry addon is very undocumented.
4:13 mykel ryan!!
I’m more on ice 🧊 fairy 🧚♀️
2:09 Winter Sawsbuck
What about it? Are you proposing that it should become Ice/Normal?
@@CammyMeeleTea yes
Have you thought about doing buffs for Bug or Poison?
Yes, Bug, Poison, and Rock.
I just watched and left a comment on the ice buffs video, but since this was uploaded only a few hours ago I might as well copy-pase it here:
I don't agree with the ice-rock mutual neutrality:
You smash a pebble and an ice cube of similar size together, the ice cube shatters. You throw a boulder at a glacier and it's gonna leave a dent. But then glaciers will tore through whole continents overtime. The bit about glaciers tearing through land... That's more of an argument for ground, not rock. But even if we apply it to rock, if anything that sounds like the two types should be mutually super-effective, not neutral.
Also, you refused to give ice a flying res because flying was already a balanced type. But... Electric is a fair amount worse than flying, is it not? In raw numbers it seems balanced, but the problem is that the one type with an electric immunity happens to also be one of the best and most common types in the game in ground. It doesn't help that everything and their mother also carries earthquake coverage, so electric isn't that great defensively either.
Flying doesn't have to deal with immunities. Steel is very common like ground, but it's not necessarily a hard counter to flying like ground is to electric.
There's also the moveset to keep in mind: Flying's best offensive moves are Hurricane and Brave Bird. Electric's are Thunder, which is very comparable to Hurricane, and Wild Charge which sucks. Most flying types also get near-exclusive access to Roost and Tailwind, a priviledge unmatched by electrics since their only relevant status move in t-wave has a wider distribution.
The only thing you could argue in favor of electric is the stealth rocks neutrality, but then again flying has an immunity to spikes and t-spikes to compensate. Considering the pokemon that have been good and relevant historically even in singles, I think flying is the clear winner.
Lastly, I would limit ice to only two extra resistances. It was clearly created as a glass-cannon type and I'd rather conserve some of that spirit. So I'd either give it water+ground or water+flying resistances.
As he says in the video (or comment I don't remember), just because something makes sense thematically, doesn't mean it makes for an enjoyable game experience/balance.
Having another weakness sucks for both types.
For the elec-flying debate I sorta agree. Though Electric gets volt switch, hurricane and thunder have the same niche (rain teams), and hit neutrally a common defensive typing in Steel. There's also the bolt-beam thingy.
Id lik a ghost rework, I feel like it should resist fire and ice because how can a ghost feel warmth or cold?
Even with those changes Abomasnow still struggles 😔
On the bright side it gains multiple 4x resistances so pivoting is a bit easier now with its new wannabe immunities
Why was this video re-uploaded twice?
Edit: Nevermind, found his comment
I’ve been working on a Pokémon fangame (well, more like playing around with RPG Maker XP), and I’d love to implement your buffs!
I'd be happy to try it. I'm the type of person who likes to put every option on the table and try everything until it works.
That's why I liked the experimental modes in Overwatch and Minecraft mods. You can test wild stuff, see how it performs, and then implement what is fair. Rather than just putting it in a real game and forcing people to deal with it.
@@CammyMeeleTea Thanks. If I ever finished it, it would ultimately be a remap of Hoenn that focuses on Gens 1-3 and the evolutions. Some buffs to Bug and some nerfs to Fairy as well.
personally, i would make ice resist water and flying, for balance and thematic reasons. water because throwing water onto an iceberg turns it into more ice, and flying because good luck flying a plane in a snowstorm, plus birds fly south for the winter. that said, here's the hypothetical standing of ice types under my own ice buffs:
ice/normal: still bad, but resists things now
ice/fire: no longer weak to water, but stealth rock still destroys it
ice/water: completely walls water
ice/electric: completely counters flying
ice/grass: walls water and stands a chance against flying
pure ice: has 4 weaknesses and 3 resistances, making it a more effective glass cannon
ice/fighting: even more of a glass cannon like you said, but is no longer threatened by flying
ice/poison: same weakness count, but more resistances
ice/ground: no longer weak to water, finally threatens fliers
ice/flying: generally easier time getting in, but still rocks weak
ice/psychic: gets 2 much needed resistances that aren't its own types
ice/bug: stands a chance against fliers
ice/rock: counters fliers and no longer destroyed by water. great for hisuian avalugg i guess.
ice/ghost: nothing really changes except it's a bit more flexible to switch in
ice/dragon: resists flying and walls water
ice/dark: another glassy type combo that benefits from more resists. weavile rises again
ice/steel: still a bad combo, but at least flying types won't be a problem
ice/fairy: simply has more resistances
maybe i could also remove a weakness like fighting or rock, but i don't want ice to become too strong. snowy weather already boosts its defense, so that plus resistances to water and flying make avalugg a better defender, weavile a better attacker, and mamoswine just...better.
In my opinion, ice should resist fairy because fairies are weak in the cold. Also it would be great if ice types resist the best type
Suggestion for Ice/Fire Pokémon called Todoroki, special moves already created in MyHeroAcademia
I compare the defensive aspects of ice with the defensive aspects of grass and bug, most type combos are either eh or garbage defensively with no in between, but combined with steel they are now godlike for the most part, 4x fire weakness is still pretty bad though
I can sort of see I’ve resisting electic… I think it makes more sense for it to resist grass. I think what you need to do is rebalance multiple types. Eg, rock should not be weak defensively. That is the type that should resist electric.
Electric is a far more valuable type to resist then Grass and as was said in a previous video ice is a poor conductor of electricity
I think massive types rebalance are just going to have unintended cinsequences, more than anything else.
Like, if you nerf water and Ground while also buffing Ice and Bug wich is commonly proposed, you will probably end up with Fire Types running rampant, because things that counter them are less popular than before and things they counter are more popular. And sure, people also want to buff rock and nerf steel, but they still gain much more than they lose.
At that point you will probably have to nerf Fire in some way, but by doing so you ankther type that Fire was keeping in check would emerge.
Long story short, i don't think changes to type matchups are the correct way of balancing types. Type locked moves and abilities imo are better because they don't accidentally break different mons, usually.
Bug types would be great if they had remotely decent stats on Quiver Dance alone. Their main problem is most of them have garbage BST.
@@noukan42 Yes every change to a type will cause changes to other types in a domino effect. That dosent mean it shouldnt done though. By numerically ranking the value of each type (SE = +1, NVE = -1, Resist = +1, Weakness = -1) you can see which types are better and worse. By making one change at a time, you can ensure that every type reaches a rank of 0. That means that the type has the same number of positives (Super Effectives and Resistances) as it does negatives (weaknesses and NVEs). I have actually done this myself - all types are the perfect 0. However, then I changed it to remove non-intuitive interactions, and preserve only logical interactions - but I still kept it that every type is either -1, 0 or +1. So thats significantly more balanced than vanilla, with less illogical interactions.
@@noukan42 another way they could buff types without changing the type chart would be by giving more types passives
@@umwha but balance is much more than that. Bugs have Quiver Dance, Sticky Web, Tinded Lens, U-Turn, acess to all status condition, and so on. They are given a lot of tools that only makes sense in the context of the type being otherwise bad. Tinded Lens on a decent attacking type would be extrely difficult to deal with.
On the other side, Dragon is not that good. Having 600 BST on most of it's member is good.
People focus way too much on effectiveness but types are not just that, they are also: average BST and average distribution of it, aviable moves inckuding common coverage(Fire getting solarbeam, ground getting stone edge and so on), exclusive or near exclusive moves, exclusive or near exclusive abilities and so on.
You cannot discuss, say, grass types whitout discussing that they have Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Strenght sap. Give them average effectiveness and you create an horde of drain tanks in every metagame that are even more annoying than normal stall.
Ok I take it back I thought you over did it in the previous video but it seems that nope you didn’t 😅
I personally will make Ice resist fairy. I would like to make fairy ineffective in extreme temperatures (fire, ice)
I feel like it's too strong defensively. Ground, ice, and water are already a great set of resistances, and it brings it to an equal amount of weaknesses and resistances with steel also not being a premier offensive type. Electric having 4 resists and an immunity to fight against with only 2 super effective types to attack feels like too much. You could also consider giving it back its rock weakness, but I don't like that idea as much.
Counterpoint: one of the resistances is itself, which is a bit less beneficial, and the other is Grass, which is not a great typing either. Dragon is not that common, so the biggest thing it really worries about is Ground.
But, yeah, maybe another type weak to Electric would be nice.
@@WiiMote070 Dark, water, and fire are three examples of types that resist themselves. They're all good offensive types. Ice would be both good offensively and defensively with my change. Resisting yourself definitely isn't a game over for a typing. Hitting dragon, ground, grass, and flying is good offensively. Ice has been known to be a good offensive typing for a long time. I didn't change its offenses. It now also gets to be a good defensive type with my proposal. Making it good offensively and defensively feels like a good place to stop. It doesn't need an electric resistance to get there, and electric becomes too disadvantaged offensively with another resistance.
I think what I proposed works well on its own, but I didn't focus on other types to be specifically within the spirit of the video. This isn't a complete reworking of types. It's just the ice type.
@xanderschablowsky9607 I think what I find most interesting here is the fact t hat you're the only person I've come across that thinks adding types to resist Electric would cripple it too much. Most people I've seen think it's a bit too offensive, so this is an interesting perspective
@@WiiMote070 It's not just about electric. Ice is already good offensively. Simply making it good defensively should be enough. You don't need to go over that minimum, and electric would be going over.
Friendship ended with Chien-Pao, Regieleki is the best Ice-type now.
hot take, stealth rock shouldn't take types into consideration at all.
So you want spikes but weaker?
Stealth Rock is the best hazard in the the game and only takes one layer. I'd be happier if Stealth Rock just did a flat 1/4th to everyone.
@@MouldMadeMind stronger. Hits flying and is stronger output for only one turn of settup
@@CammyMeeleTea right. It unfairly targets flying, ice, fire and bug pokemon
@@Frostingale stealth rock does the same as spikes and needs only one turn too.
Why did he nerf rock types?
It's only super effective against 3 types now smh
It’s because rock being super affective doesn’t really make a whole lotta sense if you think about it.
Will you ever share your updated type chart?
The real question is: Will I ever finish? 🤣
I really hate how ice is weak and not effective to fire.
Beartic should have been Ice-Poison
Just because Cubchoo has a snot, doesn't mean is unhealthy.
And that thing is made mainly of water anyway.
Wait... Scarlet and violet are official games? I thought it was a fan game!
It should resist electric, water and dragon, besides itself.
I’m not seeing particularly why Ice would resist ground
I think these buffs are a bit too far. Ice should still be weak defensively, just not cripplingly bad. Dropping one of the resistances would probably be the sweet spot. I don’t really get the reasoning for ice resisting ground, so maybe change that back to neutral?
Gamefreak take notes.
L
Remove STEALTH ROCKS this move is a problem for other types too.
Deleting them is a bit much. But I agree, they get way too much value for very low risk.
Grass is just the worst type anyways lol
Grass isn't a bad type. You have high value resistances to Water, Ground, and Electric, you're one of two types to hit Water for super effective while also smacking around another one of the consistently best types in the game in Ground, you're immune to a couple of the best moves in the game in Leech Seed, Rage Powder, and Spore/Sleep Powder, and it's not like Poison, Bug, or even Flying coverage is all that common
Poison is just straight up garbage and pointless since steel is already the defensive wall of a typing😢😢😢.