Thank you for the informative video!! I finally feel validated for all that I've gone through in life so far. As an INFP I've always felt like the outsider, and ever since entering the work force, I've been bogged down by the harsh truth of reality. It really does feel like I'm sinking in a bog. Everyday I try really hard to swim up to the surface, but by the end of the day, I've sunk down to the muddy bottom. Most mornings I struggle to get out of bed, I couldn't understand why I was having so much trouble conforming as a working citizen. I've tried jobs performing the simplest of tasks like data entry just because it's easy, but it always drove me crazy, and I thought there was something wrong with me. Turns out it's just not fit for me! Dr. Mike, you do not come off as a fool at all! I think you present the topics you share in a fun and enjoyable manner! Keep it up!
Oh dear. I numerously tested as INFP (INTP once). I turn 35 this year and still struggle very hard with my surroundings. People in their 20s are baffled how I can still be so "immature" but I don't think you can rush personal development...
The feeling of not being understood has existed a long time. I chose to accept it before I knew anything about MBTI. Later when I got into MBTI, my husband told me after reading about INFJ that he was 'starting to' understand why he often felt that he could not understand me. (which I knew.) We see things from perspectives many do not see from. An individual that belongs to the majority sees his own reality as THE world. When another presents a different reality, he tries to convince or argues or fights to make the other person change her reality. But from my perspective as INFJ, each person's reality is a puzzle piece. I have my own small piece of reality. I try to understand others' realities by trying to adopt their perspectives, and then I try to fit all different puzzle pieces together to make a big picture. In the big picture, I narrow down to find the common denominator. And this combination of the long range perspective and the common denominator then becomes the perspective I base my actions and beliefs etc on. The result of which is that there is rarely any distinct white and black as the way the majority see the world in. And my actions and choices are more often than not misinterpreted.
Damn right I'll evolve to be glowing. I'll be thrown down into the depths of despair, right at the bottom beneath the water, no light from above... But i'll evolve to grow a new form of light that comes from myself.
As an INFJ Josh's reaction to the way INFJ:s feel misunderstood says a lot to me, it gives birth to so many threads of behavioural associations that I couldn't for the life of me convey those feelings/thoughts in a coherent matter because of the abstract and complex ways they connect with each other. It serves as a reminder of how people interpret our feelings of being misunderstood as something other than what we actually mean by it. Listen to what people say through themselves and not through your own filters, it is crucial for better understanding and harmony within humanity.
I am an INTJ female and I believe that NFs are important to society. I have difficult time with understanding other people's feelings and it helps to have an NF near by to explain it to me if I am expected to empathize with that person. Also on the very rare occasion in which I feel an emotion it is hard for me to understand it and an NF will explain how to come to terms with it.
I personally think one can not really tell if people like NT's or NF's have it harder in life, since you can never reall experience being one and the problems that come with it. I always thought it was hard to be an INTP, having the typical INTP issues, but once I got to know other types better, I noticed that so many types have issues i've never had or things I've never thought of that could even be an issue AT ALL in life. So in that perspective I think alot of types tend to think they have it harder than the others, because they see other people not struggling with their type of problems, but possibily not see or understand the type of problems other types DO struggle with. I do think, however, it's possibly somewhat more objective to say types who are a minority (such as intuitives) have a harder time to relate to people and be understood than sensors who are a majority, simply because objectively about 20% is an intuitive, so it makes more sense you possibily do not feel understood, since 80% are sensors. If you're a sensor 80% 'gets' you, and if you're an intuitive 20% will 'get you' ..so very different. Just my opinion, but I think the basic temperaments of people around you are much more important in terms of being understood than the types themself. I could very easily deal with a world where I'm the only INTP but a much higher percentage would be intuitives at least. With either Nts or NFs i can get along mostly and feel understood, and with sensory types I pretty much always struggle ,at least to agree, in order to be understood. Disclaimer: I'm an INTP who has not much issues with understanding people being more emotional, because in my view emotions are just logical too if you strip them down to their core. Everything an NF is experiencing is logical once you get the concept of how NF's I think. In that sense I think NT's can learn alot from MBTI, especially when it comes to understanding NFs, since Nt's are usually not naturally that good with understanding people. When "people become logical" (aka mbti types/functions ) it suddenly becomes alot of easier AND MORE INTERESTING to understand them.
Mike: "What do you hate about NF the most?" First word that popped into my head: "Weak." This comes from being bullied and misunderstood in my childhood and pushing myself to become strong, resilient, and unmoved by these attacks. So when I see another NF expressing some form of "weakness" that I won't allow in myself, my first reaction is to want to yell at them: "Get up! Don't let them hurt you like that! Stand up for yourself!" Really, I'm just trying to tell myself as a child that.
Josh. About infjs. You explained your dismissiveness with the words 'all people can feel misunderstood.' The feeling of not being understood is something I've long dealt with and accepted. But nevertheless, please respect others' experiences and feelings even if you do not understand them.
Sure, NFs are are birds of a different feather in many regards, but we're just as human as everybody else and others have insecurities and sensitivities just like us.
I'm an INFP. And I think there's also a bit of beating down on introverts, too. We seem to be in an extrovert oriented era. High verbalization skills and spontaneity win the day. So I'll stay in the back room shuffling my papers...
It's not just "God" it's "life" and it's our own essence, and it's this indisputable quality that can never quite be defined, picked apart; but only felt, and known about. It's that very essence that they want to crush. Never let them take away your true self!
It's just the system guys; it's the system, and they want you to adhere exactly to their status quo, without wholly ever thinking for yourself or to be a 'true' individual. They take away the part that is the most true and value to our inner selves, and then tell us that it's "useless" or it "doesn't matter" and it's that vague grey area that is constantly denied, ignored and beguiled that yet time and time again, comes back to really bite us; but we fail to ever acknowledge or accept.
NF's can be scientists, workers, soldiers, as well as some of the greatest leaders and artists of all of history. If you've ever listened to music, watched movies, read books, you have definitely used at least one NF's work, which as you established is useless, so go ahead and stop doing those things. Cause obviously, we're all soul-less and don't need anything but work until we rot.
I do doubt, however, that (typical) cults are really made by NF's, since NF's are pretty idealistic and I think would actually have the most moral issues out of the 4 groups when they would start one. They are te most idealistic types after all. I think generally the only 'cult' a typical NF would start, is something that the type of cult actually benefits people (or one where they believe they are doing so) . Not the typical cult where people are brainwashed and what not for the benefit of the cult
I've never really felt that "let down" sort of to say; and I imagine is too much of a generalization. I was never sheltered growing up, so perhaps that may be what the case is. But I think for me, the problem was just all the movies, and books and stuff, that try to romanticize reality so much, without any ever really there to adequately explain the world to you. But even then, there's still no set in stone or static way to really see the world or "reality" You can still be an idealist and a realist at the same time I would propose. I really think the thing with "infp's not understanding or being able to handle reality" is a misunderstanding and, even at times, harmful and bad stereotype. To America, I would imagine INFP's would thus be the most disliked or perceived to be "maladjusted" type or temperament; for various reasons that I am sure are fairly apparent if one were to think about it.
I liked your intimate, inspiring talk (good contribution, yet: an uneasy feeling remains, since you haven't come up with a solution). NFs are potentially quite tough and heroic, bc they are very sensitive, but may choose to go on struggling in a bad, rather harsh, insensitive world (other types might not recognize this, which is kinda sad). Being a member of a minority temperament is bad luck. Evil comes into play, if the social environment/ society doesn't allow these individuals to fill suitable roles (introverts are more endangered). Kierkegaard, the brilliant Christian thinker, (you mention him) provides a solution (and I am bit surprised that you don't speak about faith as "a way out" of the misery): The 1st "crisis" (I call it, which I experienced as a male INFJ (more reasonable: high reactive (Kagan's label): “To despair over oneself, in despair to will to be rid of oneself, is the formula for all despair, and hence the second form of despair (in despair at willing to be oneself) can be followed back to the first.” “What really is lacking is the power to obey, to submit to the necessary in oneself, to what may be called one’s limit. Therefore the misfortune does not consist in the fact that such a self did not amount to anything in the world; no, the misfortune is that the man did not become aware of himself, aware that the self he is, is a perfectly definite something, and so is the necessary.” => some introvert NFs/ high reactive individuals are predisposed to become poets/ writers. (but: “From a Christian standpoint such a poetic existence (in spite of all aesthetic) is sin, it is the sin of poetizing instead of being, of standing in relation to the Good and the True through imagination instead of being that, or rather existentially striving to be it.”) the solution: (I'm grateful this is granted to me by mysterious means) “The decisive thing is, that for God all things are possible. This is eternally true, and true therefore every instant. This is commonly enough recognized in a way, and in a way it is commonly affirmed; but the decisive affirmation comes only when a man is brought to the utmost extremity, so that humanly speaking no possibility exists. Then the question is whether he will believe that for God all things are possible -- that is to say, whether he will believe. But this is completely the formula for losing one’s mind or understanding; to believe is precisely to lose one’s understanding in order to win God.” => the "leap to faith" “The Christian motto (…) is: As thou believest, so it comes to pass; or As thou believest, so art thou; to believe is to be.” (quotes from "the sickness unto death") Ultimately, it's religion (having a personal relationship with God) that guarantees abundant hope and love for everyone (thinking about heaven).
As an ENFP I was affirmed and further encouraged by the new thoughts discussed here. I do still wonder how "using my power" would manifest itself in my interest in Nutrition, personal Health and helping people in that.(career) I'm currently working on a Marketing degree. Academia is in fact difficult.
Whew! That took some major skimming to get thru....ok, geez...where to start. First, it makes me sad to see any type disparage one another; a world full of just one or two...or hell, five types would be most likely dis functional and most DEFINITELY BORING! Each one of has our gifts and they all have been required for our species to get to where it is. Technically, that is the very foundation of evolution. So, the jerk faces and the butt heads should all kiss and make better; we all need each other....ALL...(yes, even you INTJ and INTP (please try to keep your god complex at its minimum)). Sorry, just used you as comic relieve, but it was meant all in good taste.... Oh yeah, back to hating....actually, I believe that a certain strength is actually being missed with the NF meltdown, aka NF weakness. Once again, if this weren't somehow evolutionarily beneficial, then the first ppl that would have done it would not have attracted a mate. So, perhaps imagine a situation where a person or group of people are overlooking a egregious error; not because they are unaware, but merely it isn't important to them. Often, the NF meltdown will draw attention to that area of need. See, I see our meltdowns serve as the warning sirens that go off at a nuclear power plant because one of the reactors is about to blow. That technician may have only been at lunch, but everyone knows and does pay attn when those sirens sound! Also, NF's may start out as societies punching bag, but I know that somewhere around 30, most of my peers drastically changed their perception of me as weird to them either respecting and/or envying me. They're just now starting to realize that all of that rhetoric that they held onto doesn't hold the key to happiness. Gee, look at those NF's....they seem to have figured something out... Ok, enough rambling...hate seeing hating of any sort. This ENFJ (long acted as an INFJ and INTJ) shall see if anyone dares reads and answers this monstrosity of a post...sorry. :-P
Man, I could watch this crap (no, it isn't crap!) FOREVER! It's like watching myself. I am gaining so much understanding. Gosh. I really wish I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up. I am grown up. And scatter-brained at that. I have a portfolio of ENFP-dom, too - resume, undergrad studies, etc. It's like I can feel that I'm approaching something but I'm never quite there.
I'm an infp. And guess what? I always speak my mind, I bully bullies, and I don't let ANYONE get in the way of my goals. Also, I let my negative emotions inspire my work. It drives me to be great. And I work my ass off to accomplish whatever I set out to do. Nothing can stop me. I am willing to die for this.
Zen or understanding who other types “work” sets NFs free. Other types enjoy taking the bull by the horns etc, but not always the implication of what their actions communicate about them. From my self development, rather than being “fearful” of the “judgement”, I just see the thought wheels turn. I look towards what direction people are moving towards and if it is a truly considered position or not.
love these videos and completely agree. As an INFP I wish i would stop overreacting all the time and stop taking things so personally...it really frustrates me and is something to work on because afterwards i feel stupid for overreacting lol. Great video though as always
many important figured in society have been NFs, maybe not in the world of science but definitely in social movements. don't take my word for it, look it up.
NFGEEKS EXISTS!!! I love you so much! You give me strength. I'm INFP and... oh, boy, how many times haven't I thought of hiding in a cave and never feel again!
Concerning the "Man up" phrase. I use "Grow a pair". We all have a pair. My pair are near my gut and that's fine, but I do envy those whose pair are near their heart. That is a courage that I don't have.
i agree with some of your INFP assessments but you still mock us the most. oh well. i feel the same way as INFJs too though and relate to some ENFP insights here. not ENFJ so much. anyway, dr. mike you do not come off as flighty at all. you have an ENTPish feel to you honestly, and seem way less flighty than the ENFPs i know. i adore them and their flightiness though and do not see it as a bad thing. you are obviously ENFP but it's as if you express yourself in an ENxP manner, i think, if that makes sesne.
I wanted to take Philosophy at college and I have been discouraged a lot by society so I did not take it... I really enjoy the arts through but still feel insignificant compared to the rest of the SJ society. Perhaps more of an outcast then anything. I am glad I can relate to you Mike! :) Keep up the good work!
Great video. I love the swamp of melancholy metaphor, and the special INFP version of it. As an INFP I probably would have been hurt by that many years ago but now I find it hilarious. So true about NFs overreacting, something I've worked on and it's hard to see other people doing it.
Enfp here, what sucks to me about seeming like a joke to people is that you're always the first to know lmao and then some people try to hide that reaction and it never works. I like what red shirt says about mediums ruining things for us that shit is real. I can love a job with a passion but if the next step to climbing up the branch involves let's say having to eat some dickhead superior's shit at a faster rate than anyone else has to in order to get to the same point it's essentially a dead end to me. I was once interviewing with chase banking with intentions of becoming a teller and moving up with time and hard work. I had it all laid out, I detoxed and everything (habitual weed smoking) I had a cousin in chase already and he was already climbing fast, helped me set up interviews and everything. There was one near my house I thought would be best for me because it was within walking distance and right across from my current job. I came out of the first two interviews shining, I sat with two branch managers or w.e the fuck their title was (they called the shots in that particular building) and they were welcoming of me and I liked them too but there was 1 more interview with some asshole of sales or some shit who they hailed as "the guy who will see if someone's an asset or not, he's got that type of intuition" so I went, happily actually because somewhere I felt like someone was gonna see how much I wanted and needed this for myself, only to be met with the worst interview of my life. The man spent the entire interview trying to dissect my resume where ever he could but was mostly silent. I was employed across the street at a red lobster and both expressed that I had my superiors on notice that chase would take priority over them and that I would leave if I had to choose. I told him I'd been sleeping on couches for most of my life and never got to appreciate or love a bed, I mean I really laid it all out, not as a sob story but as hard facts that drive me, and as if he had decided I was no good at our handshake and exchanging of names he went on to deflect everything I gave him. With things like "scheduling between both jobs might be conflicted" or "it's seems you have things to work out" accompanied with very long moments of silence where his questions were answered in a heartbeat and he needed another 2 minutes in my resume to find something wrong, or better put make something wrong. The man couldn't even look me in my face as he blocked my future off like it was some casual game he's bored of, it affected me so much that one interview was enough for me to say fuck being a banker, I was forcibly pushed away from my logical and planning self which is fucking rare as you'd expect from a enfp and became illogical, my cousin had several interviews lined up and connections to help but I was done, and to this day I don't think there's anything that can make me choose to work at a bank. You know what else I still don't feel like I missed out on damn thing, fuck em all. My bad I never actually told anyone this probably looks like a mess but there I go
You guys are awesome. Also, this whole thing is uncanny. As is the Keirsey system of MB type sub-categorization. I am an ENFP and I went from writing poetry to screen writing.... yay for progress lol :P
Think again. What you are understanding is each others logical process and point of view. You do not understand each other's underlying issues but we do. This is our gift and curse.
Our experiences are quite different. You think it is arrogant because you are assuming I am boasting abilities that could not possibly be true. The reality is that it is simply an epistemological difference between us. Our collective experience is transparency of all types, including each other. This requires abilities in the subjective, the non-rational, the empathic, and the mystical, all not part of the NT experience. This is simply nothing more than an epistemological difference.
The collective of NF absolutely know others better and we discuss this all the time in private. And...we are often right. We keep it to ourselves because we don't want a beatdown. But honestly we often facepalm on the other types attempts at this...sometimes we gasp.
Aww that was a mean dig at infp :( Just because you can wave around your "e" happy that that's the one thing you have ahead of us in this western society.
Serene probably meant that not Josh but the people that had commented on his interests negatively were closed minded (?). I played the part where you said that INFJs are truly misunderstood like three times. I don't know why, it just felt good, in a way, being finally understood. :)
As an NT, I like most NFs. I tend to find them fascinating and good-natured people. I think they tend to have some very enviable traits to myself. I think the way though that there is the disconnect between NTs and NFs is that we tend to see things through two entirely different points-of-view. I need people to function and get the job done, and am neutral to their feelings. This can rub the NFs the wrong way as it seems very cold.
You are irrational and should have more insight about different type of individual. NF are special individual that have strong potential to make the world a better place
No, you do not come across as flighty. I'm an INFJ. I find that I get more access to information because of your demeanor and presentation. Honestly, I sometimes find the presentation of INFJs to be dry and hard to stay with. I think you do well.
NFs see society as a collective source of information rather than a conglomerate of individual people with distinctive and specific perspectives. Remember that the NFs are the ones who classified groups of people and created this classification system. SJs would never accept this ideological concept that deters from rational and physical work. SPs would never have time for this kind of thinking. NTs find the loopholes in the illogical connections and underlying meanings of the system.
Now...I wrote my dissertation on this topic. My thesis was that the hierarchical relationship between NF and NT can be deconstructed by looking at the dialectic between the two, which requires an explanation as to the limits of NT and the nature of the epistemology of NF consciousness. So...if you have a 400 page dissertation and a PhD about that then we can talk as equals.
I like the intro. The only thing I would suggest, and this has gotten better from when you first implemented this intro, is to make sure the volume of it matches the discussion part (the rest of the video). How it is in this video was pretty good. Earlier videos, the intro was much too loud compared to the discussion.
NFs sentimentalize the system because it's something that gives their valuable intuition purpose in a ritualistic way. Belief is a pure stream of mountain water, a place of worship and comfort. Who values comfort more than the NF?
The people who were telling him that Philosophy isn't a real thing or whatever. Not Josh himself obviously. I meant the people that were criticizing/teasing/trolling him. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I think I'm INFJ. The other types might get how to push buttons but not care. Competition and commercialization are hard for me to cope with. Improving systems to make myself obsolete and helping others to leave myself behind happens. I don't sell myself well ... ... because I don't want to. And that's enough for me to say no. The neccessity of selling out and conforming to trends makes me leave creative stuff as a hobby. Solving the problems that someone found useful to keep around ... don't even ...
I do have to tell myself to toughen up a little, if I want to see any of my creative pursuits through to fruition...I have to embrace my own "kooky" and be comfortable enough to not shut myself down in the "real world". ;OP Where would the world be if all the creative writers were too sensitive to get 284714 rejection letters? At some point...we man/woman up and change the world for the better.
I find that odd that the professor would say that. I've personally had bad experience with academics in general hence me doing an online school which is probably easier then the GED. My dream school is a graduate school that centers around Jung's work.
That response to INFJs feeling misunderstood is a classic example about people feeling misunderstood. "EVERYONE FEELS MISUNDERSTOOD...BOO HOO"...the irony there...people studying MBTI and still making judgmental comments🤔
NT consciousness has a very important role in terms of knowing the physical reality and its operation. It is for an external knowing and is vital to the human condition. Just because it is limited and that there are other consciousness process that is outside of it does not speak to its inability or its need to be repressed. However, this process cannot cover all things, it cannot have perfect epistemology. In fact, the issue is that you are stretching the abilities of NT beyond their limits.
I don't feel we are over reacting... that is SJ/SP judgement of us. Our ebbing and flowing is how we achieve motion, action and change. (Saying that, unhealthy any type do over react). I personally prefer and have more patience for the NF than the S-type beating and NT rage anytime. What I agree with is that my fellow NFs need to get out of the idea that SJs are right about them. We are every bit as capable as anyone else. NF is not and excuse to wallow over and over in self pity
I feel your pain, ENFJ! I LOVE History, and am always told it's boring! I'm the ENFP type, but History has ALWAYS fascinated me. I wouldn't make the best teacher because of the P in me will go down every rabbit trail I come to.
+Rebecca Joyner Also, Mike, you touched on it... The functional stack for you two is very different. Josh goes straight to Extroverted Feeling, then to Introverted Intuition. Mike hits his Extroverted Intuition before running through his Introverted Feeling. People look at us as shallow, and sometimes uncaring because we don't express our feelings outwardly. Crying in public could be a fear factor episode starring me. If you've seen me cry, I either hate you, or we're super close and I trust you. I'd rather pass off my emotions with laughter so people don't see my vulnerable side because of the social pressures to be "tough"
I'm an ENTP and I find it easy to sympathize with what NFs go through (think it was from my upbringing encouraging Fi use). The only thing frustrating about NFs are ENFJs lol. There were points in my life where ENFJs shared their Ni insights that I found hard to understand, and they reacted (literally) shaking their heads in disappointment. NJs (even NTJs) typically suck at communicating their Ni, but there is a particularly sensitive pain point struck when ENFJs communicate Fe disapproval (ETPs are sensitive to this since it communicates incompetence). So this is definitely something to watch out for (coming from personal experience). Other than that, I will defend the NFs in my own life and even debate if I have to, because we need NFs to become their best self ^_^
+Stephen Joseph So, you don't want to become your best self? Do you want to be your worst self or what do you mean by saying that only NFs need to become their best self?
+Simon Kappeler I'm thinking in terms of what each type brings to the planet. For example, ENTPs bring new invention to humanity; but in my opinion, we already have enough of that. Sooner or later we will have depleted the earths natural resources, all in the name of invention. I think society is losing touch with the important things in life. For me, it becomes a question of what society I consider myself a part of in the first place.
"Those who stand under have the greater need to understand." - Anne Wilson Schaef I think this quote (and I hope I got it right) explains why NFs understand SJs better than they do us. They run the world and NFs are a minority temperament of sorts (except for in the arts, of course).
All of the types and temperaments are collective consciousness of how to know something as the form of awareness. The objective, empirical, logical, consciousness of NT is about know a person in the plural sense. What is a person? It is about person as object but it is not actual people but the concept of people being made object, the idea. The NF consciousness is to know a person, an actual person, which requires a different knowing entirely.
Let me rephrase that. I have never met an INFJ (I know 2) or an ESFP ( I know hundreds) who didn't have a conspiracy theory. Of course I am new to MBTI.
Thank you for the informative video!! I finally feel validated for all that I've gone through in life so far. As an INFP I've always felt like the outsider, and ever since entering the work force, I've been bogged down by the harsh truth of reality. It really does feel like I'm sinking in a bog. Everyday I try really hard to swim up to the surface, but by the end of the day, I've sunk down to the muddy bottom. Most mornings I struggle to get out of bed, I couldn't understand why I was having so much trouble conforming as a working citizen. I've tried jobs performing the simplest of tasks like data entry just because it's easy, but it always drove me crazy, and I thought there was something wrong with me. Turns out it's just not fit for me!
Dr. Mike, you do not come off as a fool at all! I think you present the topics you share in a fun and enjoyable manner! Keep it up!
Panayiota Kutsukos I'm sorry you feel this way, I experience the same thing as an INFP male. Please be well!!
there is a great gift to be had being INFP. I was about 39 when I got mines...after a couple hard years of searching and meloncholy
Oh dear. I numerously tested as INFP (INTP once). I turn 35 this year and still struggle very hard with my surroundings. People in their 20s are baffled how I can still be so "immature" but I don't think you can rush personal development...
The feeling of not being understood has existed a long time. I chose to accept it before I knew anything about MBTI. Later when I got into MBTI, my husband told me after reading about INFJ that he was 'starting to' understand why he often felt that he could not understand me. (which I knew.)
We see things from perspectives many do not see from. An individual that belongs to the majority sees his own reality as THE world. When another presents a different reality, he tries to convince or argues or fights to make the other person change her reality. But from my perspective as INFJ, each person's reality is a puzzle piece. I have my own small piece of reality. I try to understand others' realities by trying to adopt their perspectives, and then I try to fit all different puzzle pieces together to make a big picture. In the big picture, I narrow down to find the common denominator. And this combination of the long range perspective and the common denominator then becomes the perspective I base my actions and beliefs etc on. The result of which is that there is rarely any distinct white and black as the way the majority see the world in. And my actions and choices are more often than not misinterpreted.
Damn right I'll evolve to be glowing.
I'll be thrown down into the depths of despair, right at the bottom beneath the water, no light from above...
But i'll evolve to grow a new form of light that comes from myself.
finally i have found my people, hi infp here ._.
me too
....hi
my exact reaction to the video ‘these are my people’ -infp
belated hi 5 and hello lyndsay
As an INFJ Josh's reaction to the way INFJ:s feel misunderstood says a lot to me, it gives birth to so many threads of behavioural associations that I couldn't for the life of me convey those feelings/thoughts in a coherent matter because of the abstract and complex ways they connect with each other.
It serves as a reminder of how people interpret our feelings of being misunderstood as something other than what we actually mean by it.
Listen to what people say through themselves and not through your own filters, it is crucial for better understanding and harmony within humanity.
I am an INTJ female and I believe that NFs are important to society. I have difficult time with understanding other people's feelings and it helps to have an NF near by to explain it to me if I am expected to empathize with that person. Also on the very rare occasion in which I feel an emotion it is hard for me to understand it and an NF will explain how to come to terms with it.
I personally think one can not really tell if people like NT's or NF's have it harder in life, since you can never reall experience being one and the problems that come with it. I always thought it was hard to be an INTP, having the typical INTP issues, but once I got to know other types better, I noticed that so many types have issues i've never had or things I've never thought of that could even be an issue AT ALL in life. So in that perspective I think alot of types tend to think they have it harder than the others, because they see other people not struggling with their type of problems, but possibily not see or understand the type of problems other types DO struggle with.
I do think, however, it's possibly somewhat more objective to say types who are a minority (such as intuitives) have a harder time to relate to people and be understood than sensors who are a majority, simply because objectively about 20% is an intuitive, so it makes more sense you possibily do not feel understood, since 80% are sensors. If you're a sensor 80% 'gets' you, and if you're an intuitive 20% will 'get you' ..so very different.
Just my opinion, but I think the basic temperaments of people around you are much more important in terms of being understood than the types themself. I could very easily deal with a world where I'm the only INTP but a much higher percentage would be intuitives at least. With either Nts or NFs i can get along mostly and feel understood, and with sensory types I pretty much always struggle ,at least to agree, in order to be understood.
Disclaimer: I'm an INTP who has not much issues with understanding people being more emotional, because in my view emotions are just logical too if you strip them down to their core. Everything an NF is experiencing is logical once you get the concept of how NF's I think. In that sense I think NT's can learn alot from MBTI, especially when it comes to understanding NFs, since Nt's are usually not naturally that good with understanding people. When "people become logical" (aka mbti types/functions ) it suddenly becomes alot of easier AND MORE INTERESTING to understand them.
Mike: "What do you hate about NF the most?"
First word that popped into my head: "Weak."
This comes from being bullied and misunderstood in my childhood and pushing myself to become strong, resilient, and unmoved by these attacks. So when I see another NF expressing some form of "weakness" that I won't allow in myself, my first reaction is to want to yell at them: "Get up! Don't let them hurt you like that! Stand up for yourself!"
Really, I'm just trying to tell myself as a child that.
Josh. About infjs. You explained your dismissiveness with the words 'all people can feel misunderstood.'
The feeling of not being understood is something I've long dealt with and accepted. But nevertheless, please respect others' experiences and feelings even if you do not understand them.
If there was one thing I hate about NFs, as an INFJ, is our inability to play well with others.
Sure, NFs are are birds of a different feather in many regards, but we're just as human as everybody else and others have insecurities and sensitivities just like us.
I'm an INFP. And I think there's also a bit of beating down on introverts, too. We seem to be in an extrovert oriented era. High verbalization skills and spontaneity win the day. So I'll stay in the back room shuffling my papers...
It's not just "God" it's "life" and it's our own essence, and it's this indisputable quality that can never quite be defined, picked apart; but only felt, and known about. It's that very essence that they want to crush. Never let them take away your true self!
This is why it's so important for NF's to stick together and stand up for each other.
damn y'all roasting us INFPs
Everyone roasts INFPs on the internet. I don't get it, they're not that bad
I'm ENFP and want to be taken seriously too. But it will never happen....
If that were to happen you would instantly feel smothered.
Ikr?
Oh, well. That's the price we pay for not being boring. 😏
It's just the system guys; it's the system, and they want you to adhere exactly to their status quo, without wholly ever thinking for yourself or to be a 'true' individual. They take away the part that is the most true and value to our inner selves, and then tell us that it's "useless" or it "doesn't matter" and it's that vague grey area that is constantly denied, ignored and beguiled that yet time and time again, comes back to really bite us; but we fail to ever acknowledge or accept.
NF's can be scientists, workers, soldiers, as well as some of the greatest leaders and artists of all of history. If you've ever listened to music, watched movies, read books, you have definitely used at least one NF's work, which as you established is useless, so go ahead and stop doing those things. Cause obviously, we're all soul-less and don't need anything but work until we rot.
NFs should do more serious stuff, like starting cults or communist revolutions! Oh wait..
Haaaa! My son kids me all the time and tells me I need to start a fake religion so we could rake in the money! Very funny!
lol...is your son ENTP? they love to make up and laugh at ideas like that
I do doubt, however, that (typical) cults are really made by NF's, since NF's are pretty idealistic and I think would actually have the most moral issues out of the 4 groups when they would start one. They are te most idealistic types after all. I think generally the only 'cult' a typical NF would start, is something that the type of cult actually benefits people (or one where they believe they are doing so) . Not the typical cult where people are brainwashed and what not for the benefit of the cult
I've never really felt that "let down" sort of to say; and I imagine is too much of a generalization. I was never sheltered growing up, so perhaps that may be what the case is.
But I think for me, the problem was just all the movies, and books and stuff, that try to romanticize reality so much, without any ever really there to adequately explain the world to you. But even then, there's still no set in stone or static way to really see the world or "reality"
You can still be an idealist and a realist at the same time I would propose. I really think the thing with "infp's not understanding or being able to handle reality" is a misunderstanding and, even at times, harmful and bad stereotype.
To America, I would imagine INFP's would thus be the most disliked or perceived to be "maladjusted" type or temperament; for various reasons that I am sure are fairly apparent if one were to think about it.
I liked your intimate, inspiring talk (good contribution, yet: an uneasy feeling remains, since you haven't come up with a solution).
NFs are potentially quite tough and heroic, bc they are very sensitive, but may choose to go on struggling in a bad, rather harsh, insensitive world (other types might not recognize this, which is kinda sad).
Being a member of a minority temperament is bad luck. Evil comes into play, if the social environment/ society doesn't allow these individuals to fill suitable roles (introverts are more endangered).
Kierkegaard, the brilliant Christian thinker, (you mention him) provides a solution (and I am bit surprised that you don't speak about faith as "a way out" of the misery):
The 1st "crisis" (I call it, which I experienced as a male INFJ (more reasonable: high reactive (Kagan's label):
“To despair over oneself, in despair to will to be rid of oneself, is the formula for all despair, and hence the second form of despair (in despair at willing to be oneself) can be followed back to the first.”
“What really is lacking is the power to obey, to submit to the necessary in oneself, to what may be called one’s limit. Therefore the misfortune does not consist in the fact that such a self did not amount to anything in the world; no, the
misfortune is that the man did not become aware of himself, aware that the self he is, is a perfectly definite something, and so is the necessary.” => some introvert NFs/ high reactive individuals are predisposed to become poets/ writers.
(but: “From a Christian standpoint such a poetic existence (in spite of all aesthetic) is sin, it is the sin of poetizing instead of being, of standing in relation to the Good and the True through imagination instead of being that, or rather existentially striving to be it.”)
the solution: (I'm grateful this is granted to me by mysterious means)
“The decisive thing is, that for God all things are possible. This is eternally true, and true therefore every instant. This is commonly enough recognized in a way, and in a way it is commonly affirmed; but the decisive affirmation comes only when a man is brought to the utmost extremity, so that humanly speaking no possibility exists. Then the question is whether he will believe that for God all things are possible -- that is to say, whether he will believe. But this is completely the formula for losing one’s mind or understanding; to believe is precisely to lose one’s understanding in order to win God.” => the "leap to faith"
“The Christian motto (…) is: As thou believest, so it comes to pass; or As thou believest, so art thou; to believe is to be.”
(quotes from "the sickness unto death")
Ultimately, it's religion (having a personal relationship with God) that guarantees abundant hope and love for everyone (thinking about heaven).
As an ENFP I was affirmed and further encouraged by the new thoughts discussed here. I do still wonder how "using my power" would manifest itself in my interest in Nutrition, personal Health and helping people in that.(career) I'm currently working on a Marketing degree. Academia is in fact difficult.
Whew! That took some major skimming to get thru....ok, geez...where to start. First, it makes me sad to see any type disparage one another; a world full of just one or two...or hell, five types would be most likely dis functional and most DEFINITELY BORING! Each one of has our gifts and they all have been required for our species to get to where it is. Technically, that is the very foundation of evolution. So, the jerk faces and the butt heads should all kiss and make better; we all need each other....ALL...(yes, even you INTJ and INTP (please try to keep your god complex at its minimum)). Sorry, just used you as comic relieve, but it was meant all in good taste....
Oh yeah, back to hating....actually, I believe that a certain strength is actually being missed with the NF meltdown, aka NF weakness. Once again, if this weren't somehow evolutionarily beneficial, then the first ppl that would have done it would not have attracted a mate.
So, perhaps imagine a situation where a person or group of people are overlooking a egregious error; not because they are unaware, but merely it isn't important to them. Often, the NF meltdown will draw attention to that area of need. See, I see our meltdowns serve as the warning sirens that go off at a nuclear power plant because one of the reactors is about to blow. That technician may have only been at lunch, but everyone knows and does pay attn when those sirens sound!
Also, NF's may start out as societies punching bag, but I know that somewhere around 30, most of my peers drastically changed their perception of me as weird to them either respecting and/or envying me. They're just now starting to realize that all of that rhetoric that they held onto doesn't hold the key to happiness. Gee, look at those NF's....they seem to have figured something out...
Ok, enough rambling...hate seeing hating of any sort. This ENFJ (long acted as an INFJ and INTJ) shall see if anyone dares reads and answers this monstrosity of a post...sorry. :-P
people are just jealous of us!! never change guys!
Man, I could watch this crap (no, it isn't crap!) FOREVER! It's like watching myself. I am gaining so much understanding. Gosh. I really wish I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up. I am grown up. And scatter-brained at that. I have a portfolio of ENFP-dom, too - resume, undergrad studies, etc. It's like I can feel that I'm approaching something but I'm never quite there.
I'm an ENFP and this feels so good to watch. Does it actually mean... that I am okay?
I find that I compensate with thinking a lot in the academic world, sometimes I feel like I've lost the value in Fi and Ne - INFP
1:49 actually, NT's are the minority. There are more NF's than NT's
LucyLAL100 Exactly. NFs have more easy life than NTs. Because they can relate to others much better. I think NFs are more whiney though.
+Vishal Devgire well, we are feelers. what could you expect.
+Vishal Devgire There are broad stereotypes in your comment. I don't think they are necessarily true or helpful.
Maybe, but NT traits are much more valued in society
I'm an infp. And guess what? I always speak my mind, I bully bullies, and I don't let ANYONE get in the way of my goals. Also, I let my negative emotions inspire my work. It drives me to be great. And I work my ass off to accomplish whatever I set out to do. Nothing can stop me. I am willing to die for this.
How true!! Ha ha ha!! ENFP here! I'm 70 and people still don't take me seriously!!
Quite funny to see the NeFi - FeNi interaction in play too.
Thanks for sharing, you guys are all the best
that would be awesome. i love both channels.
Zen or understanding who other types “work” sets NFs free. Other types enjoy taking the bull by the horns etc, but not always the implication of what their actions communicate about them. From my self development, rather than being “fearful” of the “judgement”, I just see the thought wheels turn. I look towards what direction people are moving towards and if it is a truly considered position or not.
love these videos and completely agree. As an INFP I wish i would stop overreacting all the time and stop taking things so personally...it really frustrates me and is something to work on because afterwards i feel stupid for overreacting lol. Great video though as always
many important figured in society have been NFs, maybe not in the world of science but definitely in social movements. don't take my word for it, look it up.
NFGEEKS EXISTS!!! I love you so much! You give me strength. I'm INFP and... oh, boy, how many times haven't I thought of hiding in a cave and never feel again!
Concerning the "Man up" phrase. I use "Grow a pair". We all have a pair. My pair are near my gut and that's fine, but I do envy those whose pair are near their heart. That is a courage that I don't have.
INFJ here. Society does not beat me down. Just cause your an NF doesn’t mean you have to be weak.
Said no INFJ ever.
i agree with some of your INFP assessments but you still mock us the most. oh well. i feel the same way as INFJs too though and relate to some ENFP insights here. not ENFJ so much.
anyway, dr. mike you do not come off as flighty at all. you have an ENTPish feel to you honestly, and seem way less flighty than the ENFPs i know. i adore them and their flightiness though and do not see it as a bad thing. you are obviously ENFP but it's as if you express yourself in an ENxP manner, i think, if that makes sesne.
I wanted to take Philosophy at college and I have been discouraged a lot by society so I did not take it... I really enjoy the arts through but still feel insignificant compared to the rest of the SJ society. Perhaps more of an outcast then anything. I am glad I can relate to you Mike! :) Keep up the good work!
Great video. I love the swamp of melancholy metaphor, and the special INFP version of it. As an INFP I probably would have been hurt by that many years ago but now I find it hilarious. So true about NFs overreacting, something I've worked on and it's hard to see other people doing it.
Enfp here, what sucks to me about seeming like a joke to people is that you're always the first to know lmao and then some people try to hide that reaction and it never works. I like what red shirt says about mediums ruining things for us that shit is real. I can love a job with a passion but if the next step to climbing up the branch involves let's say having to eat some dickhead superior's shit at a faster rate than anyone else has to in order to get to the same point it's essentially a dead end to me. I was once interviewing with chase banking with intentions of becoming a teller and moving up with time and hard work. I had it all laid out, I detoxed and everything (habitual weed smoking) I had a cousin in chase already and he was already climbing fast, helped me set up interviews and everything. There was one near my house I thought would be best for me because it was within walking distance and right across from my current job. I came out of the first two interviews shining, I sat with two branch managers or w.e the fuck their title was (they called the shots in that particular building) and they were welcoming of me and I liked them too but there was 1 more interview with some asshole of sales or some shit who they hailed as "the guy who will see if someone's an asset or not, he's got that type of intuition" so I went, happily actually because somewhere I felt like someone was gonna see how much I wanted and needed this for myself, only to be met with the worst interview of my life. The man spent the entire interview trying to dissect my resume where ever he could but was mostly silent. I was employed across the street at a red lobster and both expressed that I had my superiors on notice that chase would take priority over them and that I would leave if I had to choose. I told him I'd been sleeping on couches for most of my life and never got to appreciate or love a bed, I mean I really laid it all out, not as a sob story but as hard facts that drive me, and as if he had decided I was no good at our handshake and exchanging of names he went on to deflect everything I gave him. With things like "scheduling between both jobs might be conflicted" or "it's seems you have things to work out" accompanied with very long moments of silence where his questions were answered in a heartbeat and he needed another 2 minutes in my resume to find something wrong, or better put make something wrong. The man couldn't even look me in my face as he blocked my future off like it was some casual game he's bored of, it affected me so much that one interview was enough for me to say fuck being a banker, I was forcibly pushed away from my logical and planning self which is fucking rare as you'd expect from a enfp and became illogical, my cousin had several interviews lined up and connections to help but I was done, and to this day I don't think there's anything that can make me choose to work at a bank. You know what else I still don't feel like I missed out on damn thing, fuck em all. My bad I never actually told anyone this probably looks like a mess but there I go
You guys are awesome. Also, this whole thing is uncanny. As is the Keirsey system of MB type sub-categorization.
I am an ENFP and I went from writing poetry to screen writing.... yay for progress lol :P
I subscribed at this video. I mentally subscribed when I found the video about nf jobs.
i swear i started snapping at "the beauty of philosophy IS the pondering"
It is the same length as a TV theme song.
Think again. What you are understanding is each others logical process and point of view. You do not understand each other's underlying issues but we do. This is our gift and curse.
Our experiences are quite different. You think it is arrogant because you are assuming I am boasting abilities that could not possibly be true. The reality is that it is simply an epistemological difference between us. Our collective experience is transparency of all types, including each other. This requires abilities in the subjective, the non-rational, the empathic, and the mystical, all not part of the NT experience. This is simply nothing more than an epistemological difference.
The collective of NF absolutely know others better and we discuss this all the time in private. And...we are often right. We keep it to ourselves because we don't want a beatdown. But honestly we often facepalm on the other types attempts at this...sometimes we gasp.
Aww that was a mean dig at infp :(
Just because you can wave around your "e" happy that that's the one thing you have ahead of us in this western society.
There is already a conspiracy theories episode, but if you watch it and tell us what I missed we can always do another
Serene probably meant that not Josh but the people that had commented on his interests negatively were closed minded (?). I played the part where you said that INFJs are truly misunderstood like three times. I don't know why, it just felt good, in a way, being finally understood. :)
As an NT, I like most NFs. I tend to find them fascinating and good-natured people. I think they tend to have some very enviable traits to myself.
I think the way though that there is the disconnect between NTs and NFs is that we tend to see things through two entirely different points-of-view. I need people to function and get the job done, and am neutral to their feelings. This can rub the NFs the wrong way as it seems very cold.
Josh needs his own channel!
Thanks guys your awesome, and I will
"You majored in Elizabethian Poetry.....wow what a waste of time!" Bill Murray.....Groundhog Day.
Yet another reason why I sympathize with anarchism.
I am searching for as many different types as possible to be on the show live. It is hard because NF' and NT's seem more interested.
Absolutely loved this episode!
Wow, I'm a philosophy major and lots of parts made me cringe. I mean the reactions Josh was sharing. Really sad how people can be so close-minded.
You are irrational and should have more insight about different type of individual. NF are special individual that have strong potential to make the world a better place
No, you do not come across as flighty. I'm an INFJ. I find that I get more access to information because of your demeanor and presentation. Honestly, I sometimes find the presentation of INFJs to be dry and hard to stay with. I think you do well.
You guys get me completely(ENFP). Loved this.
What's up with the 1 minute ad that you can't skip??
"They are were the catfish are!" Hahahaha made me laugh there 🐡🐡🐡
NFs see society as a collective source of information rather than a conglomerate of individual people with distinctive and specific perspectives. Remember that the NFs are the ones who classified groups of people and created this classification system. SJs would never accept this ideological concept that deters from rational and physical work. SPs would never have time for this kind of thinking. NTs find the loopholes in the illogical connections and underlying meanings of the system.
Philosophy... the love of wisdom and/or the wisdom of looooove oooooooo!
Now...I wrote my dissertation on this topic. My thesis was that the hierarchical relationship between NF and NT can be deconstructed by looking at the dialectic between the two, which requires an explanation as to the limits of NT and the nature of the epistemology of NF consciousness.
So...if you have a 400 page dissertation and a PhD about that then we can talk as equals.
I like the intro. The only thing I would suggest, and this has gotten better from when you first implemented this intro, is to make sure the volume of it matches the discussion part (the rest of the video). How it is in this video was pretty good. Earlier videos, the intro was much too loud compared to the discussion.
This video is so great lol thank you ^___^
NFs sentimentalize the system because it's something that gives their valuable intuition purpose in a ritualistic way. Belief is a pure stream of mountain water, a place of worship and comfort. Who values comfort more than the NF?
Mic drop
I think you should just cut him some slack. We're doing our best here.
The people who were telling him that Philosophy isn't a real thing or whatever. Not Josh himself obviously. I meant the people that were criticizing/teasing/trolling him. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I like how you give a run down on each 4 types
I think I'm INFJ.
The other types might get how to push buttons but not care.
Competition and commercialization are hard for me to cope with. Improving systems to make myself obsolete and helping others to leave myself behind happens.
I don't sell myself well ...
... because I don't want to. And that's enough for me to say no.
The neccessity of selling out and conforming to trends makes me leave creative stuff as a hobby.
Solving the problems that someone found useful to keep around ... don't even ...
I won't. I saw EJArendee make a statement about it.
I do have to tell myself to toughen up a little, if I want to see any of my creative pursuits through to fruition...I have to embrace my own "kooky" and be comfortable enough to not shut myself down in the "real world". ;OP Where would the world be if all the creative writers were too sensitive to get 284714 rejection letters? At some point...we man/woman up and change the world for the better.
I find that odd that the professor would say that. I've personally had bad experience with academics in general hence me doing an online school which is probably easier then the GED. My dream school is a graduate school that centers around Jung's work.
That response to INFJs feeling misunderstood is a classic example about people feeling misunderstood. "EVERYONE FEELS MISUNDERSTOOD...BOO HOO"...the irony there...people studying MBTI and still making judgmental comments🤔
Good episode.
NT consciousness has a very important role in terms of knowing the physical reality and its operation. It is for an external knowing and is vital to the human condition. Just because it is limited and that there are other consciousness process that is outside of it does not speak to its inability or its need to be repressed. However, this process cannot cover all things, it cannot have perfect epistemology. In fact, the issue is that you are stretching the abilities of NT beyond their limits.
I knew what you meant serene nostalgia, thank you
I don't feel we are over reacting... that is SJ/SP judgement of us. Our ebbing and flowing is how we achieve motion, action and change. (Saying that, unhealthy any type do over react). I personally prefer and have more patience for the NF than the S-type beating and NT rage anytime. What I agree with is that my fellow NFs need to get out of the idea that SJs are right about them. We are every bit as capable as anyone else. NF is not and excuse to wallow over and over in self pity
Conspiracy theories and MBTI. That's an interesting video. A get a lot of crazy idea's from INFJ and ESFP's. Thoughts?
Wow... glad I switched to history then... but still I'm assuming there is hierarchy within that too. Nice video :)
Learning curve.
I feel your pain, ENFJ! I LOVE History, and am always told it's boring! I'm the ENFP type, but History has ALWAYS fascinated me. I wouldn't make the best teacher because of the P in me will go down every rabbit trail I come to.
+Rebecca Joyner Also, Mike, you touched on it... The functional stack for you two is very different. Josh goes straight to Extroverted Feeling, then to Introverted Intuition. Mike hits his Extroverted Intuition before running through his Introverted Feeling. People look at us as shallow, and sometimes uncaring because we don't express our feelings outwardly. Crying in public could be a fear factor episode starring me. If you've seen me cry, I either hate you, or we're super close and I trust you. I'd rather pass off my emotions with laughter so people don't see my vulnerable side because of the social pressures to be "tough"
You, my good sir, are crazy.
Swamp of melancholy was coined as slough of despond by John John Bunyan in Pilgrim's Progress.
Well, it sounds like you have matters well in hand then. No need to worry myself.
I'm an ENTP and I find it easy to sympathize with what NFs go through (think it was from my upbringing encouraging Fi use). The only thing frustrating about NFs are ENFJs lol. There were points in my life where ENFJs shared their Ni insights that I found hard to understand, and they reacted (literally) shaking their heads in disappointment. NJs (even NTJs) typically suck at communicating their Ni, but there is a particularly sensitive pain point struck when ENFJs communicate Fe disapproval (ETPs are sensitive to this since it communicates incompetence). So this is definitely something to watch out for (coming from personal experience). Other than that, I will defend the NFs in my own life and even debate if I have to, because we need NFs to become their best self ^_^
+Stephen Joseph So, you don't want to become your best self? Do you want to be your worst self or what do you mean by saying that only NFs need to become their best self?
+Simon Kappeler I'm thinking in terms of what each type brings to the planet. For example, ENTPs bring new invention to humanity; but in my opinion, we already have enough of that. Sooner or later we will have depleted the earths natural resources, all in the name of invention. I think society is losing touch with the important things in life. For me, it becomes a question of what society I consider myself a part of in the first place.
+Stephen Joseph do you vote for Sanders ("the minor Evil")? and may I ask you what you invent?
"Those who stand under have the greater need to understand." - Anne Wilson Schaef
I think this quote (and I hope I got it right) explains why NFs understand SJs better than they do us. They run the world and NFs are a minority temperament of sorts (except for in the arts, of course).
I agree. Josh stated that in the video that precedes this about evil ENFJ's.
some people act different based on their enneagram
Society beats down on NTs too. * sob sob :(
All of the types and temperaments are collective consciousness of how to know something as the form of awareness. The objective, empirical, logical, consciousness of NT is about know a person in the plural sense. What is a person? It is about person as object but it is not actual people but the concept of people being made object, the idea. The NF consciousness is to know a person, an actual person, which requires a different knowing entirely.
NF empowerment man! ENFP here! :D
look, i like NFs and all but can you do more episodes with sensors? and can you do more episodes with noah?
best video ever keep it up!!
Let me rephrase that. I have never met an INFJ (I know 2) or an ESFP ( I know hundreds) who didn't have a conspiracy theory. Of course I am new to MBTI.