Why is it that every time Fe user talks about Fi it makes them sound cold people, and when Fi user talks about Fe it makes them sound cold. I think it's not about that: both strong feeler types are very attuned to their feelings. It's more like Fi wants to understand emotions (a lot like Ti wants to understand how things work) and Fe wants everybody to use their emotions (a lot like Te wants to see the implementation of an idea).
Thank you! The listen/talk theory for cognitive functions explains why I, as an INTJ, have felt such an affinity with NFPs - and a disconnect from NFJs - on emotional matters. Through the years, I've felt sandbagged when the expressed platonic warmth from three different INFJs has encouraged me to take the plunge and connect on an emotionally exposed level - only to receive responses which I'd characterize as projected, detached, professorial, or at worse insincere (yet not duplicitous). Now I get it.
This explanation of the difference between introverted and extroverted functions is really interesting and suddenly all the functions make a lot more sense! Thank you sharing this with us! :)
INFJs aren't sensitive in the same sense as the INFP. The introverted intuition creates a different kind of sensitivity. I feel like I absorb the emotions of people around me to the point that sometimes I don't know where it's coming from. INFPs have a kind of sympathy where they are imagining themselves in the shoes of the other person. So INFJs are still sensitive, it's just in a very different way. You are right that it isn't always quite from a compassionate place. It's a kind of empathy without compassion, which at times when we choose to can include compassion. It's just things we pick up. So we are detached in that sense, but INFPs are detached in the sense that they are limited by their ability to put themselves in that person's shoes.
Very interesting. It's almost like we (INFJs) are so others absorbed, like through empathy, as opposed to self absorbed, that our own true, individual feelings are always set on the back burner or blurred or something. Maybe even as though we, possibly subconsciously, really don't think it matters what we feel ourselves, so we shelf it, because the introverted intuition is getting most of our attention and focus. We're too busy trying to harmonize or balance others or situations to get into any Fi zone. The thought "how do I feel about this," only focusing on ourselves, is not natural to us. Anyway, just "thinking out loud." This is all so beyond deep, lol.
Some nice information to chew on in the video. When you are internalizing what someone is saying are you... Ti: Is what they are saying true/logical/accurate. Ni: Looking for the hidden meaning behind what is being said. Fi: Concerned with the feeling behind the words or how it makes you feel. Si: Taking the words at face value and comparing it to past/present experience. When you are externalizing to someone else are you... Te: Applying/discussing ideas/logic, principles, systems, and details. Fe: Conveying your feelings through what you are saying. Ne: Talking about abstractions and deeper meanings, or related things. Se: Expressing what you are sensing/experiencing to others. As you keep alluding to, functions have a lot of different layers. Talking/Listening seems like it fits nicely as one of those layers.
as an infj i find this really very insightful. sometimes infp/enfps really get on my nerves and it's difficult. it's just the younger ones can be really immature and hard to deal with sometimes. i also get the whole insensitivity thing. when i'm listening, i'm not really attached to a feeling. most of the time i think of people as ideas, not feelings. so very good video imo.
As an INFP, I really do feel that I lack the ability to express feelings and thoughts well, especially feelings. People seem to think that I don't feel strongly about important issues. I even feel I lack facial expression, so I believe other people think I am emotionally flat, or bored, or just unhappy. Deep down, there are plenty of emotions going on. Also, when I talk to people, I am straight forward. If you notice people who use sarcasm, they talk in a very straightforward way, I.e., "No, you didn't upset me when you sad 'such and such', when in actuality they mean the opposite. So when I say such things to people, with my lack of facial expression, they often seem to show a puzzled look, as if they don't know whether I am sincere or sarcastic. Yet, I lack the ability to use sarcasm in such a straightforward way. One thing I find funny is when I've told people that I am more of an introvert, they say as if trying to make me feel better, "Oh, no you're not!" Society hasn't quite learned how to accept introversion... Maybe more so in America. Not so much Asian cultures, from what I've heard.
I experience that usually when im being sarcastic and other people stare blankly. Lol it makes me regret trying to be funny. But it seems pretty natural for me to have that dry, witty humor. Also, from my experience introversion is somewhat natural to asian cultures. The way we are too accomodating or not assertive. Most americans in my country usually are very friendly loud and assertive.
Leslie Lane I relate to this so much.. I think the reason that a lot of INFP's have a hard time expressing their emotions is because they're so deep and we spend a lot of time thinking about them only in our heads. For me, I feel like the words 'I love you' (for example) just don't do any justification to what I really feel and I'd rather say nothing, instead of saying something that I don't really feel in that way.. I dont' know. The only way for me to express my feelings is through art and I think that's why Fi-users are always connected with art. Other types of course too, but in a different way.
I think it is normal that you feel that way. I see introverted functions as a defensive attitude (wich envolves reflecting about it) and extroverted functions as engaging/attacking (not in a violent way, but more as a reacting way). So, I think introverted feelers work their feelings (later transformed into their values) internally and reflect on them thus intensifying them and only latter they can present their feelings to the external world. That is why Fi dominants usually don't share their feelings (it's almost like they are hidding their feelings). Because the more they are reflecting on them the less they are using Te to express their conclusions/feelings. They only do it when they come to a conclusion, wich can take a long time. They feel Te (taking action to persue an external goal) as a burden because they want to be sure 100% that what they are doing is good. That is also why when they decide to persue a goal (or a value), they are unstopable and very firm. The extroverted feelings, I think, are an engagement in the feelings/values as "feelings" in general. So, when they talk react to a specific feeling they are not referencing to their own feelings, they are reacting to the feeling standards that are common to the people they are dealing with in that specific moment. So, that is why I think they feel more confortable expressing feelings because they are experiencing the value (or lack of value) of something as outside of them and appropriate in the specific situation. And they react without much reflection. That is why, I think, they repress Ti, wich makes them often express different opinions about the value of something depending on the situation they are reacting and the people they are facing. Because the more they adapt to match the feelings of others, the less they use Ti to think about the correctness and consistency of what they are saying. They feel Ti as a burden because it cuts the engagement in the commonalities between people. That is why they often express very common sense opinions in conversations wich makes it hard to understand their real opinion. They do this to keep good feeling atmosphere. They don't want to correct others or assert their precise opinion about things unless they feel that their percieved common standards of value is being threatened. When that happens they can become very rigorous and opinionated. I must say I don't belive only introverted feelers have personal values (like some sources claim). I think extroverted feeler's values are also personal. The difference would be that Introverted feelers percieve the adherence to their values as a reflection of their own made in isolation. While extroverted feelers probably percieve it as them noticing and adopting/rejecting already existing values in the world. I would also add that we tend to project onto others the lack of our dominant function (Jung also said that). So, I notice that extroverted feelers are very insistant in pushing what they think is "good" to others (as if they know what is best for you, wich sometimes is good but sometimes is very controlling). In contrast, Introverted feelers actually tend to percieve their feelings as very unique to them and tend to keep their feelings protected (as if no one else in the world would be abble to understand what they feel). Wich makes them very tolerant when people express their feelings but also prone to excess of pride. These are just some thoughts... I might change my mind. This is kind of how I see it right now
Better description. I = Internalizing(listening) E = Expressing(Speaking) Fe is expressing emotion. Ne is expressing abstraction. Fi is internalizing emotion. Ni is internalizing abstraction. Si is internalizing sensation... ect ect
As an Infj I do not feel insensitive. If I see or hear about injustice, cruelty, bullying of people or animals I feel the pain deeply and intensely on a very deep level, So I don't understand it when you say Infj's are insensitive. I live with an Infp and he would say I am extremely sensitive.
I'm an INFJ and I am EXTREMELY sensitive. People who do not know me well do not realize this. I agree with the rest, particularly the communication jam :-) I laughed a little starting at 20:25. I was having doubts that I'm an INFJ until you brought up that story.
yeah that is right but about that we dont care and we care in a complex way im as an infj i care i get hurt i feel hurt inside but i dont respond to it just hide it and i tell my self everything will gonna be alright if we didnt explain what we feel that doesnt mean we dont feel i was thinking about what he said like a day and try to figure out an explanation but i dont know my self completely xD Ok we dont give our emotions that attention but that doesnt mean we dont feel will.... maybe im just tired of life or im just getting some breakheart these days what i said that is Belong to me idk if the other INFJ like me but u cant say that we dont get hurt or there is no emotional place inside us , we get hurt we feel pain as the others the problem is how or what is happing inside exactly and sorry for taking all ur time to read my shit and an other sorry for my english
You have just explained why people frequently assume I'm obsessed with some topic I mentioned once months ago, and why most of them never pick up on the things I'm actually obsessed with. That's always puzzled me until now!
Empathy requires intuition. There's an imaginative, abstract part where you get into the person's world or larger scope in humanity. This is why NF's are the most adept at this. Fi or Fe determines the type of empathy. Fe is communication: Empathy is given as a way saying something. The content may not be empathic but the way it is said is. Fi is understanding. Empathy here is the ability to imagine the inner world of someone. The content is empathic even though the expression of it may not be.
We were together for two years until I moved away. We were then apart for a year but a few months ago I back to the area and we immediately got back together. So, we're not getting married any time soon but I was with him long enough to know he doesn't fit the usual pattern. Thanks for the response :)
May I say, In NT workflow, Mike was considering Ti as productive or creating force and Ne as experimenting or playfull force, which would INTP make someone deeply productive but when stuck, then by Ne change his perception to another angle, so he could continue,,, therefore Te would be implementing, and Ni would be understanding of big picture asociations and idea, which would make INTJ someone very understanding and critical hence the Ni and also someone ready to implement into real world, hence Te,,, soo for example INTP invents lightbulb because of logic of its structure, ENTP builds lightbullb prototype, because of its playfullnes and his willingness to implement structure, INTJ sees the lightbullb prototype and develops big picture idea about illuminance of some building in general, and ENTJ develops a plan to illuminate concrete things and streamline manofacture of lightbulbs,, So now NF, Mike was thinking that judging function instead of percieving was to be communicating factor, not as it was in NT, intuition. Because NT thinking was only creative, intuition was the communicating method, transfer of ideas, in case of NF, feeling is to be comunicating method. Ok, but now we have to start with INFJ, who develops Ni idea, shares it through Fe, than ENFJ catches it with Fe, preaches it with Fe further and understands the idea on Ni level, just as ENTP understood the idea on Ti level and both of them want to rather preach it, experiment with it, realise it to reality, like the lightbulb prototype. Then INFP sees the idea through Fi, and deeeply analyzes it through that. Then he just like Mike said, explain the concept throug the Ne, because thats the language of concepts, and lastly, ENFP comes to play. He but sees what INFP is preaching, understands it through Fi also, and preaches it more strongly through Ne. So,, INFJ came up with the ideal of romanticism, ENFJ may catch to that and preach it further, INFP than may analyse that through feeling, may see that its all right or not, just like INTJ puts idea through critique, and then starts explaining it by Ne, but then ENFP comes. He is like ENTJ trying to mass produce the explanation of that ideal and so, mass teaching etc. .... There is also a view that, what if intuition is comunicating factor and feeling is creative,, AND,, what if there are several "productive cooperations" of these temperaments, in which communicating and creating factors are realized by every combination. Wouldn that be something
First off, thank you for the video! I've been trying to understand the MBTI for a while and your way of looking at Fi/Fe as listening/talking makes a lot of sense. I think I'm an ENFP and when I came across your videos, I thought maybe I should validate this and see how much I can relate to your experiences. I can relate to two things here, people thinking that I've got a lot of drive behind my ideas when in reality it's not true, I'm flexible yet often they feel that I'm forceful with them.
You just explained my infp sister to a T! Thank you for explaining the selfish vs selfless concept it has really given me much to think on! Also as an infj, I understand now why my esfj dad frequently gets defensive and upset when I offer my thoughts on a situation... If I'm following you correctly this would mean that my abstract thoughts/advice/etc are hitting him in an emotional way that I never intended... Wow... Everything makes sense now! Thanks Dr!
Socionics says your Fe is unconscious and it is very strong, stronger than INFPs. Your Fe is bit crafty and comes out uncontrollably. This is why ESFPs are the best back stabbers when gone wrong and are coupled with evil INTJ. They form social disaster on the dark side. INFPs love people who can make things rolling. As an ENTP I make things happen unconsciously with extremely strong Te. They look at with awe and I don't understand it: this is simple stuff. Then I open my mouth and hurt them with my ideas. Socionics even says that my Fi gets constant hit but I don't know what do with it and that is also true. I actually get lots of emotions/feelings from people but I don't have clue what it is exactly and it terrifies me. I can see the same with you and Ti. Remember Fi and Ti are both very different beasts from the abstract world.
At the beginning when you were speaking about 4:58 not tuning the other functions out, it was in that moment I knew I was destined to learn from you! I am an ENFP-A. We must examine all functions within its content, context, and culture. Lalalalaaaaa hope that quote makes sense :) I look forward to catching up and looking for new videos.
I vaguely remember someone saying it that way at the MBTI training I went to, but the understanding of it here and elsewhere on NFGeeks is my own understanding and conceptualization.
As an INTJ mathematician, my Ni likes the generality of this hearing/speaking concept. Also, this theory explains why my ISTJ friend can seem so similar to me. We both talk through our Te. It also explains why he constantly tries to find factual problems with what I say. He listens through his Si, rather than Ni.
Very interesting way of expressing the function attitudes. Also, clarifying “self-absorbed”. I'd say that on the other side, however, associating the term “insensitive” with NFJs' Fe is a bit misleading. What you were describing there (their “let's do this, gotta be a team, I don't care”, etc) stems more from what's been termed their “DIRECTING communications”. Keirsey had divided the temperaments into directive and informative, and when blended with I/E, you have what are known as Interaction Styles. ENFJ is “In Charge” along with ENTJ, ESTJ and ESTP, and so will seem more like them on the surface. INFJ will be a more reserved version of the same thing. NFJ's are unique in being the only directive Feeling types. The rest are “informative” and thus seem softer. So I find SFJ's to be very sensitive, both inside and in their communication, even though they prefer Fe.
I think a bit more interaction between the two takes place. I agree to an extent. I see them more as specialized in listening and speaking, and it actually really helping one another out. Especially INFPs and ISFPs they may not always have the words readily to express how they feel, but if you start asking questions, they know exactly how their feeling, so it helps. I find it's easier to understand my emotions when I express them. I see E/I as broad vs deep.
I am INFP. I think by them being less sensitive, they are hard to trust. They could crush us. I'd feel safer with another fi I know would understand feelings better. I don't see how being with an insensitive person would help us. We need to be around more people who are sensitive. This has been my problem my whole life. Especially at work. This is the best insight ever. I m the same age as Dr. Mike too. Cool
Thank you for this video mike. I'm still learning how to deal well and be on good terms with Te users at the moment i.e INTJs, ISTJS, ESTJs especially. They are hard to get since Ti is my fourth function. Te can come off pretty harsh...
I see, yes that makes sense. I just know my ESFJ dad is EXTREMELY sensitive to anything that even smells of criticism. I have noticed this especially when sharing ideas/practical logic... I tend to be straightforward (yes, even blunt at times) and he can be just crushed by something that seems very benign to me. If its not sugarcoated he doesn’t want to hear it...
Great way of explaining the difference between the listening function and communicating function. Also you explained that while ENFJ & INFJs care, they're not terribly sensitive.
That was very interesting and exactly to the point!!! i was always wondering how do infjs feel, cause i never understand them, cause it seemed to me that they suffer, but one day i realized that they dont feel as deeply as infps do.
I want to answer this as INFP 9w1 (interested to hear what you would do fellow INFP) - personally I would get hurt and then let it go - my hurt is not worth the disharmony. I will engage if someone is relentless in not letting me breathe or giving me space to withdraw. Then I explode to create a space for me to go to my own quiet space to recover.
(part 4 of 4) response “no he really wants to let us on but he can't, probably because it's mid day and it may get busy shortly and it'd get difficult for the life guard...”. So yes NFJ's are less sensitive to emotions and yes i'd say NFP's are less "concerned" with emotions of others. I can give more examples, it's complicated without having good relationships with both NFP's and NFJ's. (part 1 isn't labelled)
Functions in regard to which are dominant/auxiliary and Extroverted/introverted... As an ENFP I am first Speaking with my 'perceptions' (Ne) and taking in, or hearing, with my "judging" (Fi). While an ENFJ is first Speaking with 'judging' (Fe) and taking in, or hearing, with 'perception'? Can you possibly speak more on this? I considered perception the way we take in information and judging the way we process that information, but this is bringing a new perspective...
The talking/listening dichotomy is ingenius! It is the perfect way of understanding all of MBTI. What's the deal with the empathy/sympathy thing? I read somewhere that empathy is an Fi thing, while sympathy is an Fe thing. I'm not sure I agree. What do you think, Dr. Mike?
I mostly like to focus on strength based things. I'm sure it could be interesting though to compare our weaker functions. My guess would be yes to the question, because I think the higher up a function, means more control. I often find myself looking for physical proof to show an insight. So I think it's possible to translate, as long as you start out with your strengths. The opposite for trying to understand someone else. I do it to try to relate, but sometimes I just feel like google translate
This is how I think it goes: Pe perceives from the outside world, Pi bases itself on Pe, but is more conevrgent and reflective: it slowly and subconsciously gather Pe material into a personal impression. As for Ji or Je, they are much more concerned with applying information as opposed to gathering it. In my opinion the very act of listening is object based, and, as such, not an introverted process.
Great video really helped me understand the types better, would love to see you do one on Te and Ti and Ne and Ni. As an INFJ maybe that's why I get so much from counselling because I'm using my Fe, discussing my feelings helps me understand them, btw loved your way of explaining these ideas just made me wanna give you a hug, is that Ni coming out though Fe haha
I enjoy Dr. Mike, as an INFP myself. So many of the INFP folks lack the wonderful sense of humor that we can develop. Maybe it is a maturity thing. Do you think INFPs develop humor with age?
I'm pretty aware of my own emotions, and I'm fairly certain I'm a feeler. I test as INFJ and INFP. I find it easy to talk about my own feelings. However, if someone came up to me crying, and said their mom was sick in the hospital, I would be extremely uncomfortable trying to comfort them, because I'm not good with others' emotions. Would this fit INF feeling? Is it possible I'm shy yet extroverted or a sensor?
Hi Mike. The speaking / listening concept seems different to the classic MB theory, that S and N are for taking in information, and T and F are for making decisions. I can't see how an ESTP can communicate with extraverted sensing, it's a process for taking in information I think?
I listen for feeling not just listen to how things make me feel. So I care less about all else that is communicated and care more for how someone feels when they say it. So it is not always about how I person feels about it. I can 'hate' (no I don't really) something but if someone else speaks of if with love I hear that and that is what becomes important. I assume introverted intuitives listen out for cohesion - they care not for the detail but how each part fits in with the whole. maybe?
My guess on how they'd tie in to Dr. Mike's system. They would go by the same rule as you're top two as far as listening and speaking, and less strong, because their further down. Other than that I'm inclined to say they would appear when these functions normally do, operating in a similar way as your top two.
I’m an enfp and. I was never selfish. My brother was much more selfish he is lead Extraverted feeler Later in life I am more selfish if I don’t watch it
Great vid. Could the comparison between introverted and extroverted Feeling be described as Personal and Impersonal? Like one would take the lady being hit by the bus personally and the other may take it impersonally. Thanks.
....I do try to converse in a way that meets his needs/loves him best but it is difficult b/c its not natural for me.This has been a struggle for years and it is frustrating b/c I often end up having to apologize for being who I am! Anyways, hope I didn't offend anyone, just my experience!:)
usually when i hear people talk about ne, i see them using it in a way that is attached to their seconday function. They usually don't notice this. I find that entp's tend to describe ne in a very ne-ti way, and i see this function.
Self absorbed? Are you sure that's a Fi thing? Could it just be a human nature thing? I suspect we all are, if given the means and the ways to express self. What you described about Ni-Fe rings painfully accurate. Considering what you said about Fe and talking through their feelings could this possibly describe some of my frustration with certain online web forum communities? I enjoy reading and sharing ideas. That's all fine and enjoyable. I feel secure sharing ideas/ insights, but when it comes to sharing feelings and describing my personal thoughts/ self reflection, I feel emotions building up, like there's tension, an unfulfilled need to express them in a way the internet just doesn't provide, and I end up feeling drained/upset if not reciprocated, especially if someone replies to another post and leaves mine unanswered. It triggers the feeling of being skipped over in group discussions. Deep rooted painful feeling of being ignored, not valued by the community, even if my conscious thought logic is telling me those feelings aren't founded. I know what I am feeling isn't true, that it is based off false premise (false assumption that being skipped over means no one read or cared to read my post - Fe is also aware that people do read posts, find them insightful but don't need to comment on them. I don't comment on every post., so my logic tells me I shouldn't be expecting replies either), but the emotional element can't be controlled. I can try to talk it away in my head, but it doesn't speak the same language as logic. When I feel that way, the only real resolution is to talk with someone over the phone or in person. I've reluctantly resigned to the fact that when those emotions are triggered, that I am better off accepting there's a need not being met and that means of communication just isn't working and not for me.
Interesting ideas! :) I'm an ENFJ. I really like your ideas of listening and speaking functions, but I don't know if I agree in total. I mean; when you take an MBTI test you're asked if you value X over Y values. Those values are really important to both types; so.. I feel like ENFJ's, ENFP's, INFP's and INFJ's all really have Feeling as a strong function in terms of how they interact with the world. I think there may be something to your hypothesis though, I'm going to think about it. :)
If you have to express verbally and underline the fact that you're humble, it usually means you're not. A pupil of Socrates, Antisthenes, in a show of contempt for convention and as a show of humility, decided to wear rags as he walked through Athens. When Socrates saw him, he said: "Through the holes in your clothes, I see your vanity."
I have a question and I'd appreciate it if you could clarify. I come across as an extroverted feeler as my face and body language expresses emotions (sometimes betraying me) and I am very in tune with and care a lot about other people's feelings. I tend to always take care of other people's or the group's feelings. However, I know for a fact, that I hide a lot of what is really going on inside me. I'm a deep and complicated well of emotions despite what may seem to come across. So I am not as easy to understand as what people may see. I consistently test as "NFP". Can you clarify this for me? Why do I come across as so emotionally expressive and animated which is not typical for an "NFP"?
If I'm correct you would be putting you're thoughts out a emotional way and he would taking them in through Si. You'd both be putting things out in an emotional way. His would be stronger, and you'd be taking it in through Si and Ni. I'm just trying to explain what I think Dr. Mike meant. He can explain it if I'm wrong. I have a slightly different take anyways.
I have the awful ENFP problem of getting bored of my relationships quickly. I finally found someone that I'm committed to but he's an ISTP and doesn't understand my need for emotional support. This is coming between us. Is it possible to find someone I don't get bored of who can also give me the support I need? Any tips? To complicate things further I am an ENFP with Social Anxiety Disorder. I would love to see a video about that combination but I guess that's my self-absorption talking haha :)
What happens Anne when someone is not fair or is cruel with YOU? Not others. You specifically. Will you become overly sensitive in that case as well? Will you become stubborn or will you just let it go? INFP thanks in advance for the answer. My love is an INFJ.
ENFP here. I've been thinking a lot about this recently, particularly how Fi users appear selfish and Fe users more selfless, and I was wondering if Fe really is better than Fi, even though I see something so beautiful in my Fi friends, mostly INFP's. I still don't know how to be so comfortable with being "self-absorbed" as you are,
what about INFJs that are highly sensitive ..i can relate to what you said about the old lady being hit by the bus and then go off and question the whole meaning of it all, but I also feel very strongly personally too... i especially cry when i see a person in pain, and when someone criticizes me, it can seriously damage me inside, it damages me when i feel i said something not as sensitively as i should have and worry for days if that person is okay etc.. do you think this has to do with Fi?
Yea. I would say it's less deep then less sensitive. I would also say it's broader. I would say the same holds true for all functions when it comes to direction. As far as the talking and listening goes I'd say it fits into what I was saying about being deep or broad. I personally always saw it as more conversational. Like Fe was better at speaking through emotion, and Fi listening. I saw them as exceptionally good at both, especially when communicating to each other. Perhaps F dom vs N dom?
i know from deep reflection that i'm DEFINITELY an INFJ, but i really feel things extremely strongly too as you explained an NFP would... i have a hard time expressing myself though, unlike NFPs, i just can't seem to get the personal feelings out into something constructive and creative.. it mostly comes out in raw emotion ie.. anger, frustration, sadness... but i'd really like to know what you think about this... if it has anything to do with Fi or where else it may come from..
(contd...) I just have a whole lot of them and I'm hardly forceful, quite often I don't follow them through to implementation even (I try to change this). The other thing is with emotions, I do seem to make a lot judgements based on how I feel about something, but they're internalized i think because people don't see me as an emotional person, but as someone with lotsa ideas and who's almost always happy.... also, do you guys have a forum or something? I seem to keep crossing the word limit lol
I see Fe and Ne as having a wider scope, where Ni and Fi have a greater depth. Extroversion could come off as knowing a lot or shallow, because it's using a wider scale. Introversion could come off as selfish or struggle to be expressed, because it's so deep. I sort of see saying Fe coming from a more insensitive place to, more unintelligent or less insightful place. More importantly what requires looking smarter than you are? RULING THE WORLD!
What if u talk as a fe but feel fi .. if someone hurts me I would not say anything because yes fe is about harmony It hurts. As a entp I'm always told I'm a enfp and yes i have similarities but i hate debates, arguing and I have high Ti..
It was a rather interesting video . I found most of it to be incredibly insightful . I only wish the ending was a bit more conciliatory (classic Fe desire) . The ending seemed to be more along the lines of "don't judge other people -- let them all be individual" which seems to be a very Fi desire , which , is fair considering this is your video and your channel . However , because the whole video was framed as being more authoritative than subjective , it can seem as if this maxim of "don't judge other people by your type's judging" goes unchallenged and might be mistaken as universal . I propose (not coming from an emotional place but rather from a desire to protect Fe users) that it is just as legitimate to judge others and that it is legitimate to request Fi users to achieve harmony . Why ? Because if Fe users are being asked in your video to 'respect the individuality' of Fi users , that status quo achieves *what the Fi user wants* . But what about what the Fe user wants ? Do you realize that what you're asking at the end is stating your desire only ? (self-absorption to use your words) . Fe users are perhaps seeking some kind of universal etiquette or reciprocation and if you truly believe what you say that respecting the autonomy of the Fi is key , then should you not also concede that respecting the Fe's universality is also legitimate ? Shouldn't saying "don't judge others" only be applicable to Fi users ? Is it not unfair to force Fe users to repress their desire for universal and overarching standards of seflessness in relationships ? I fully understand that it's unfair to ask Fi users to switch their ways -- there is great beauty in the Fi . But the mistake here is that this video , at the end , has gone so far as to , perhaps unconsciously , push forward that the way Fis deal with interpersonal differences (e.g. 'don't judge others') is the only legitimate means for all people . It should be the legitimate means for Fis but certainly (at least in my hypothesis) not for Fes . Please let me know where I might have misunderstood so that I might better understand this topic . Thank you .
I disagree. As an INFJ take things philosophically we are very capable to feel about the projection where the Ni predicts the productiveness or destructiveness that idea will eventually take all of us.
im infp, i agree with all of what you said about nfp's but im not sure i completely agree with the talking/listening concept. is it your own idea or is it from a book? i want to investigate. in extreme cases i could see how it is a possibility but in the majority of cases i disagree based experience. i wouldn't say Fe users are insensitive but i agree that it's more shallow. (word limit)
Why is it that every time Fe user talks about Fi it makes them sound cold people, and when Fi user talks about Fe it makes them sound cold. I think it's not about that: both strong feeler types are very attuned to their feelings. It's more like Fi wants to understand emotions (a lot like Ti wants to understand how things work) and Fe wants everybody to use their emotions (a lot like Te wants to see the implementation of an idea).
Because the users are so stuck in their own mode of thinking that it's hard to understand how it is coming from the other perspective.
Thank you! The listen/talk theory for cognitive functions explains why I, as an INTJ, have felt such an affinity with NFPs - and a disconnect from NFJs - on emotional matters.
Through the years, I've felt sandbagged when the expressed platonic warmth from three different INFJs has encouraged me to take the plunge and connect on an emotionally exposed level - only to receive responses which I'd characterize as projected, detached, professorial, or at worse insincere (yet not duplicitous). Now I get it.
This explanation of the difference between introverted and extroverted functions is really interesting and suddenly all the functions make a lot more sense! Thank you sharing this with us! :)
INFJs aren't sensitive in the same sense as the INFP. The introverted intuition creates a different kind of sensitivity. I feel like I absorb the emotions of people around me to the point that sometimes I don't know where it's coming from. INFPs have a kind of sympathy where they are imagining themselves in the shoes of the other person. So INFJs are still sensitive, it's just in a very different way. You are right that it isn't always quite from a compassionate place. It's a kind of empathy without compassion, which at times when we choose to can include compassion. It's just things we pick up. So we are detached in that sense, but INFPs are detached in the sense that they are limited by their ability to put themselves in that person's shoes.
Very interesting. It's almost like we (INFJs) are so others absorbed, like through empathy, as opposed to self absorbed, that our own true, individual feelings are always set on the back burner or blurred or something. Maybe even as though we, possibly subconsciously, really don't think it matters what we feel ourselves, so we shelf it, because the introverted intuition is getting most of our attention and focus. We're too busy trying to harmonize or balance others or situations to get into any Fi zone. The thought "how do I feel about this," only focusing on ourselves, is not natural to us. Anyway, just "thinking out loud." This is all so beyond deep, lol.
Some nice information to chew on in the video.
When you are internalizing what someone is saying are you...
Ti: Is what they are saying true/logical/accurate.
Ni: Looking for the hidden meaning behind what is being said.
Fi: Concerned with the feeling behind the words or how it makes you feel.
Si: Taking the words at face value and comparing it to past/present experience.
When you are externalizing to someone else are you...
Te: Applying/discussing ideas/logic, principles, systems, and details.
Fe: Conveying your feelings through what you are saying.
Ne: Talking about abstractions and deeper meanings, or related things.
Se: Expressing what you are sensing/experiencing to others.
As you keep alluding to, functions have a lot of different layers. Talking/Listening seems like it fits nicely as one of those layers.
More like introverted feelers are immersed in their feeling. (just getting specific!)Terrific description by the way, thank you! Terrific video.
as an infj i find this really very insightful. sometimes infp/enfps really get on my nerves and it's difficult. it's just the younger ones can be really immature and hard to deal with sometimes. i also get the whole insensitivity thing. when i'm listening, i'm not really attached to a feeling. most of the time i think of people as ideas, not feelings. so very good video imo.
As an INFP, I really do feel that I lack the ability to express feelings and thoughts well, especially feelings. People seem to think that I don't feel strongly about important issues. I even feel I lack facial expression, so I believe other people think I am emotionally flat, or bored, or just unhappy. Deep down, there are plenty of emotions going on.
Also, when I talk to people, I am straight forward. If you notice people who use sarcasm, they talk in a very straightforward way, I.e., "No, you didn't upset me when you sad 'such and such', when in actuality they mean the opposite. So when I say such things to people, with my lack of facial expression, they often seem to show a puzzled look, as if they don't know whether I am sincere or sarcastic. Yet, I lack the ability to use sarcasm in such a straightforward way.
One thing I find funny is when I've told people that I am more of an introvert, they say as if trying to make me feel better, "Oh, no you're not!" Society hasn't quite learned how to accept introversion... Maybe more so in America. Not so much Asian cultures, from what I've heard.
I experience that usually when im being sarcastic and other people stare blankly. Lol it makes me regret trying to be funny. But it seems pretty natural for me to have that dry, witty humor.
Also, from my experience introversion is somewhat natural to asian cultures. The way we are too accomodating or not assertive. Most americans in my country usually are very friendly loud and assertive.
Leslie Lane I relate to this so much.. I think the reason that a lot of INFP's have a hard time expressing their emotions is because they're so deep and we spend a lot of time thinking about them only in our heads. For me, I feel like the words 'I love you' (for example) just don't do any justification to what I really feel and I'd rather say nothing, instead of saying something that I don't really feel in that way.. I dont' know. The only way for me to express my feelings is through art and I think that's why Fi-users are always connected with art. Other types of course too, but in a different way.
I think it is normal that you feel that way. I see introverted functions as a defensive attitude (wich envolves reflecting about it) and extroverted functions as engaging/attacking (not in a violent way, but more as a reacting way). So, I think introverted feelers work their feelings (later transformed into their values) internally and reflect on them thus intensifying them and only latter they can present their feelings to the external world. That is why Fi dominants usually don't share their feelings (it's almost like they are hidding their feelings). Because the more they are reflecting on them the less they are using Te to express their conclusions/feelings. They only do it when they come to a conclusion, wich can take a long time. They feel Te (taking action to persue an external goal) as a burden because they want to be sure 100% that what they are doing is good. That is also why when they decide to persue a goal (or a value), they are unstopable and very firm.
The extroverted feelings, I think, are an engagement in the feelings/values as "feelings" in general. So, when they talk react to a specific feeling they are not referencing to their own feelings, they are reacting to the feeling standards that are common to the people they are dealing with in that specific moment. So, that is why I think they feel more confortable expressing feelings because they are experiencing the value (or lack of value) of something as outside of them and appropriate in the specific situation. And they react without much reflection. That is why, I think, they repress Ti, wich makes them often express different opinions about the value of something depending on the situation they are reacting and the people they are facing. Because the more they adapt to match the feelings of others, the less they use Ti to think about the correctness and consistency of what they are saying. They feel Ti as a burden because it cuts the engagement in the commonalities between people. That is why they often express very common sense opinions in conversations wich makes it hard to understand their real opinion. They do this to keep good feeling atmosphere. They don't want to correct others or assert their precise opinion about things unless they feel that their percieved common standards of value is being threatened. When that happens they can become very rigorous and opinionated.
I must say I don't belive only introverted feelers have personal values (like some sources claim). I think extroverted feeler's values are also personal. The difference would be that Introverted feelers percieve the adherence to their values as a reflection of their own made in isolation. While extroverted feelers probably percieve it as them noticing and adopting/rejecting already existing values in the world.
I would also add that we tend to project onto others the lack of our dominant function (Jung also said that). So, I notice that extroverted feelers are very insistant in pushing what they think is "good" to others (as if they know what is best for you, wich sometimes is good but sometimes is very controlling). In contrast, Introverted feelers actually tend to percieve their feelings as very unique to them and tend to keep their feelings protected (as if no one else in the world would be abble to understand what they feel). Wich makes them very tolerant when people express their feelings but also prone to excess of pride.
These are just some thoughts... I might change my mind. This is kind of how I see it right now
INFP here! I totally feel this video but can not express how :)
Better description. I = Internalizing(listening) E = Expressing(Speaking)
Fe is expressing emotion. Ne is expressing abstraction. Fi is internalizing emotion. Ni is internalizing abstraction. Si is internalizing sensation... ect ect
Very enlightening and helpful! Thank you. "You're judging the other person through your own process." So true.
As an Infj I do not feel insensitive. If I see or hear about injustice, cruelty, bullying of people or animals I feel the pain deeply and intensely on a very deep level, So I don't understand it when you say Infj's are insensitive. I live with an Infp and he would say I am extremely sensitive.
Finally. One of the best MBTI based vids I've seen, providing clarification one would assume should be obvious yet is uncommonly covered.
I wish you'd break this down and explain the isfp's aswell. I feel like i'd help me understand how my Fi works with all the other functions.
I'm an INFJ and I am EXTREMELY sensitive. People who do not know me well do not realize this. I agree with the rest, particularly the communication jam :-) I laughed a little starting at 20:25. I was having doubts that I'm an INFJ until you brought up that story.
yeah that is right
but about that we dont care and we care in a complex way
im as an infj i care
i get hurt
i feel hurt inside
but i dont respond to it
just hide it and i tell my self everything will gonna be alright
if we didnt explain what we feel that doesnt mean we dont feel
i was thinking about what he said like a day and try to figure out an explanation but i dont know my self completely xD
Ok we dont give our emotions that attention but that doesnt mean we dont feel
will.... maybe im just tired of life or im just getting some breakheart these days
what i said that is Belong to me idk if the other INFJ like me
but u cant say that we dont get hurt
or there is no emotional place inside us , we get hurt we feel pain as the others
the problem is how or what is happing inside exactly
and sorry for taking all ur time to read my shit and an other sorry for my english
the days of real type talk thank you this still helps my relationship with my infp brother
I very much like the way you clarify the question. It shows a lot of professional knowledge about MBTI.
I love this stuff!! Thank you for another great video! You are really gifted with brilliant insight. :)
You have just explained why people frequently assume I'm obsessed with some topic I mentioned once months ago, and why most of them never pick up on the things I'm actually obsessed with. That's always puzzled me until now!
Empathy requires intuition. There's an imaginative, abstract part where you get into the person's world or larger scope in humanity. This is why NF's are the most adept at this. Fi or Fe determines the type of empathy. Fe is communication: Empathy is given as a way saying something. The content may not be empathic but the way it is said is. Fi is understanding. Empathy here is the ability to imagine the inner world of someone. The content is empathic even though the expression of it may not be.
Dr. mike I absolutely LOVE you! Thank you for all that you do❤️💋
I learned so much here! It is SO helpful with relationships!
We were together for two years until I moved away. We were then apart for a year but a few months ago I back to the area and we immediately got back together. So, we're not getting married any time soon but I was with him long enough to know he doesn't fit the usual pattern. Thanks for the response :)
Thanks, Dr. Mike! You've confirmed that I use Introverted Feeling!
Thank you for this. I thought I was an INTP for the longest time because I am not very sensitive. This clears everything up!
You hit the mark for ENFP when you said HOLISTICALLY and at 15:15. We literally were in philosophy class having fun 😂😂😂
This is a brilliant video, thank you for your explanations and for clearing it up so nicely.
Dr. Mike, have you read, "I'm Not Crazy- I'm Just Not You?" This book examines the interactive dynamics between functions.
Solid content, Mike!
May I say, In NT workflow, Mike was considering Ti as productive or creating force and Ne as experimenting or playfull force, which would INTP make someone deeply productive but when stuck, then by Ne change his perception to another angle, so he could continue,,, therefore Te would be implementing, and Ni would be understanding of big picture asociations and idea, which would make INTJ someone very understanding and critical hence the Ni and also someone ready to implement into real world, hence Te,,, soo for example INTP invents lightbulb because of logic of its structure, ENTP builds lightbullb prototype, because of its playfullnes and his willingness to implement structure, INTJ sees the lightbullb prototype and develops big picture idea about illuminance of some building in general, and ENTJ develops a plan to illuminate concrete things and streamline manofacture of lightbulbs,, So now NF, Mike was thinking that judging function instead of percieving was to be communicating factor, not as it was in NT, intuition. Because NT thinking was only creative, intuition was the communicating method, transfer of ideas, in case of NF, feeling is to be comunicating method. Ok, but now we have to start with INFJ, who develops Ni idea, shares it through Fe, than ENFJ catches it with Fe, preaches it with Fe further and understands the idea on Ni level, just as ENTP understood the idea on Ti level and both of them want to rather preach it, experiment with it, realise it to reality, like the lightbulb prototype. Then INFP sees the idea through Fi, and deeeply analyzes it through that. Then he just like Mike said, explain the concept throug the Ne, because thats the language of concepts, and lastly, ENFP comes to play. He but sees what INFP is preaching, understands it through Fi also, and preaches it more strongly through Ne. So,, INFJ came up with the ideal of romanticism, ENFJ may catch to that and preach it further, INFP than may analyse that through feeling, may see that its all right or not, just like INTJ puts idea through critique, and then starts explaining it by Ne, but then ENFP comes. He is like ENTJ trying to mass produce the explanation of that ideal and so, mass teaching etc. .... There is also a view that, what if intuition is comunicating factor and feeling is creative,, AND,, what if there are several "productive cooperations" of these temperaments, in which communicating and creating factors are realized by every combination. Wouldn that be something
First off, thank you for the video! I've been trying to understand the MBTI for a while and your way of looking at Fi/Fe as listening/talking makes a lot of sense. I think I'm an ENFP and when I came across your videos, I thought maybe I should validate this and see how much I can relate to your experiences. I can relate to two things here, people thinking that I've got a lot of drive behind my ideas when in reality it's not true, I'm flexible yet often they feel that I'm forceful with them.
thanks dr.mike just started to understand Introverted and Extraverted Feelings
You just explained my infp sister to a T! Thank you for explaining the selfish vs selfless concept it has really given me much to think on! Also as an infj, I understand now why my esfj dad frequently gets defensive and upset when I offer my thoughts on a situation... If I'm following you correctly this would mean that my abstract thoughts/advice/etc are hitting him in an emotional way that I never intended... Wow... Everything makes sense now! Thanks Dr!
Socionics says your Fe is unconscious and it is very strong, stronger than INFPs. Your Fe is bit crafty and comes out uncontrollably. This is why ESFPs are the best back stabbers when gone wrong and are coupled with evil INTJ. They form social disaster on the dark side.
INFPs love people who can make things rolling. As an ENTP I make things happen unconsciously with extremely strong Te. They look at with awe and I don't understand it: this is simple stuff. Then I open my mouth and hurt them with my ideas. Socionics even says that my Fi gets constant hit but I don't know what do with it and that is also true. I actually get lots of emotions/feelings from people but I don't have clue what it is exactly and it terrifies me. I can see the same with you and Ti.
Remember Fi and Ti are both very different beasts from the abstract world.
At the beginning when you were speaking about 4:58 not tuning the other functions out, it was in that moment I knew I was destined to learn from you! I am an ENFP-A.
We must examine all functions within its content, context, and culture. Lalalalaaaaa hope that quote makes sense :) I look forward to catching up and looking for new videos.
I vaguely remember someone saying it that way at the MBTI training I went to, but the understanding of it here and elsewhere on NFGeeks is my own understanding and conceptualization.
As an INTJ mathematician, my Ni likes the generality of this hearing/speaking concept.
Also, this theory explains why my ISTJ friend can seem so similar to me. We both talk through our Te. It also explains why he constantly tries to find factual problems with what I say. He listens through his Si, rather than Ni.
Very interesting way of expressing the function attitudes.
Also, clarifying “self-absorbed”. I'd say that on the other side, however, associating the term “insensitive” with NFJs' Fe is a bit misleading. What you were describing there (their “let's do this, gotta be a team, I don't care”, etc) stems more from what's been termed their “DIRECTING communications”. Keirsey had divided the temperaments into directive and informative, and when blended with I/E, you have what are known as Interaction Styles. ENFJ is “In Charge” along with ENTJ, ESTJ and ESTP, and so will seem more like them on the surface. INFJ will be a more reserved version of the same thing. NFJ's are unique in being the only directive Feeling types. The rest are “informative” and thus seem softer.
So I find SFJ's to be very sensitive, both inside and in their communication, even though they prefer Fe.
Wow that was amazing! Thanks so much. If you get a chance I'd love to hear about how it works with sensors too :)
This video is excellent, can you please do this for thinking, sensing, and intuition?
The irony is that he seems to have no idea that he's judging Fe users (rather harshly) through his Fi
***** Please.
All xNFP's are dumb, selfish and judgemental
Yawn
Sin Rush Dr. Mike seems to be very fair and unbiased. I think most would agree. Great video.
Sin Rush I'm curious, what is your type? Are you an NFJ; that's of what I'm getting the feeling.
Youre awesome! I love you dr. Mike.
original* Thanx for your candid honesty : refreshing* (ENFP)
I think a bit more interaction between the two takes place. I agree to an extent. I see them more as specialized in listening and speaking, and it actually really helping one another out. Especially INFPs and ISFPs they may not always have the words readily to express how they feel, but if you start asking questions, they know exactly how their feeling, so it helps. I find it's easier to understand my emotions when I express them. I see E/I as broad vs deep.
as an Fi dom i do come off self absorbed ugh its hard not to relate life from my own view to help people but we live in Fi
I am INFP. I think by them being less sensitive, they are hard to trust. They could crush us. I'd feel safer with another fi I know would understand feelings better. I don't see how being with an insensitive person would help us. We need to be around more people who are sensitive. This has been my problem my whole life. Especially at work. This is the best insight ever. I m the same age as Dr. Mike too. Cool
Thank you for this video mike. I'm still learning how to deal well and be on good terms with Te users at the moment i.e INTJs, ISTJS, ESTJs especially. They are hard to get since Ti is my fourth function. Te can come off pretty harsh...
I see, yes that makes sense. I just know my ESFJ dad is EXTREMELY sensitive to anything that even smells of criticism. I have noticed this especially when sharing ideas/practical logic... I tend to be straightforward (yes, even blunt at times) and he can be just crushed by something that seems very benign to me. If its not sugarcoated he doesn’t want to hear it...
Great way of explaining the difference between the listening function and communicating function. Also you explained that while ENFJ & INFJs care, they're not terribly sensitive.
That was very interesting and exactly to the point!!! i was always wondering how do infjs feel, cause i never understand them, cause it seemed to me that they suffer, but one day i realized that they dont feel as deeply as infps do.
I want to answer this as INFP 9w1 (interested to hear what you would do fellow INFP) - personally I would get hurt and then let it go - my hurt is not worth the disharmony. I will engage if someone is relentless in not letting me breathe or giving me space to withdraw. Then I explode to create a space for me to go to my own quiet space to recover.
For me its metaphors stories analogies. But yeah its hard to say what I'm feeling directly and when I do it's an analogy or metaphor
(part 4 of 4) response “no he really wants to let us on but he can't, probably because it's mid day and it may get busy shortly and it'd get difficult for the life guard...”. So yes NFJ's are less sensitive to emotions and yes i'd say NFP's are less "concerned" with emotions of others. I can give more examples, it's complicated without having good relationships with both NFP's and NFJ's. (part 1 isn't labelled)
Functions in regard to which are dominant/auxiliary and Extroverted/introverted... As an ENFP I am first Speaking with my 'perceptions' (Ne) and taking in, or hearing, with my "judging" (Fi). While an ENFJ is first Speaking with 'judging' (Fe) and taking in, or hearing, with 'perception'? Can you possibly speak more on this? I considered perception the way we take in information and judging the way we process that information, but this is bringing a new perspective...
super talk. very helpful
The talking/listening dichotomy is ingenius! It is the perfect way of understanding all of MBTI.
What's the deal with the empathy/sympathy thing? I read somewhere that empathy is an Fi thing, while sympathy is an Fe thing. I'm not sure I agree. What do you think, Dr. Mike?
I mostly like to focus on strength based things. I'm sure it could be interesting though to compare our weaker functions. My guess would be yes to the question, because I think the higher up a function, means more control. I often find myself looking for physical proof to show an insight. So I think it's possible to translate, as long as you start out with your strengths. The opposite for trying to understand someone else. I do it to try to relate, but sometimes I just feel like google translate
This is how I think it goes: Pe perceives from the outside world, Pi bases itself on Pe, but is more conevrgent and reflective: it slowly and subconsciously gather Pe material into a personal impression. As for Ji or Je, they are much more concerned with applying information as opposed to gathering it. In my opinion the very act of listening is object based, and, as such, not an introverted process.
I love this video btw :)
I no that Briggs myers says u can’t be double Extraverted but I am Extraverted intuition and Extraverted thinking then I introverted feeling
Great video really helped me understand the types better, would love to see you do one on Te and Ti and Ne and Ni. As an INFJ maybe that's why I get so much from counselling because I'm using my Fe, discussing my feelings helps me understand them, btw loved your way of explaining these ideas just made me wanna give you a hug, is that Ni coming out though Fe haha
I enjoy Dr. Mike, as an INFP myself. So many of the INFP folks lack the wonderful sense of humor that we can develop. Maybe it is a maturity thing. Do you think INFPs develop humor with age?
I'm pretty aware of my own emotions, and I'm fairly certain I'm a feeler. I test as INFJ and INFP. I find it easy to talk about my own feelings. However, if someone came up to me crying, and said their mom was sick in the hospital, I would be extremely uncomfortable trying to comfort them, because I'm not good with others' emotions. Would this fit INF feeling? Is it possible I'm shy yet extroverted or a sensor?
Hi Mike. The speaking / listening concept seems different to the classic MB theory, that S and N are for taking in information, and T and F are for making decisions. I can't see how an ESTP can communicate with extraverted sensing, it's a process for taking in information I think?
Great Video!
I listen for feeling not just listen to how things make me feel. So I care less about all else that is communicated and care more for how someone feels when they say it. So it is not always about how I person feels about it. I can 'hate' (no I don't really) something but if someone else speaks of if with love I hear that and that is what becomes important. I assume introverted intuitives listen out for cohesion - they care not for the detail but how each part fits in with the whole. maybe?
Dr mike, i think you could explain mbti in a simple, logical, deep way that no other mbti youtuber could, because you are a philosophy lecturer.
My guess on how they'd tie in to Dr. Mike's system. They would go by the same rule as you're top two as far as listening and speaking, and less strong, because their further down. Other than that I'm inclined to say they would appear when these functions normally do, operating in a similar way as your top two.
I’m an enfp and. I was never selfish. My brother was much more selfish he is lead Extraverted feeler
Later in life I am more selfish if I don’t watch it
Great vid. Could the comparison between introverted and extroverted Feeling be described as Personal and Impersonal? Like one would take the lady being hit by the bus personally and the other may take it impersonally. Thanks.
....I do try to converse in a way that meets his needs/loves him best but it is difficult b/c its not natural for me.This has been a struggle for years and it is frustrating b/c I often end up having to apologize for being who I am! Anyways, hope I didn't offend anyone, just my experience!:)
usually when i hear people talk about ne, i see them using it in a way that is attached to their seconday function. They usually don't notice this. I find that entp's tend to describe ne in a very ne-ti way, and i see this function.
I am BOTH! Helpppp.... :(
Self absorbed? Are you sure that's a Fi thing? Could it just be a human nature thing?
I suspect we all are, if given the means and the ways to express self. What you described about Ni-Fe rings painfully accurate. Considering what you said about Fe and talking through their feelings could this possibly describe some of my frustration with certain online web forum communities? I enjoy reading and sharing ideas. That's all fine and enjoyable. I feel secure sharing ideas/ insights, but when it comes to sharing feelings and describing my personal thoughts/ self reflection, I feel emotions building up, like there's tension, an unfulfilled need to express them in a way the internet just doesn't provide, and I end up feeling drained/upset if not reciprocated, especially if someone replies to another post and leaves mine unanswered. It triggers the feeling of being skipped over in group discussions. Deep rooted painful feeling of being ignored, not valued by the community, even if my conscious thought logic is telling me those feelings aren't founded. I know what I am feeling isn't true, that it is based off false premise (false assumption that being skipped over means no one read or cared to read my post - Fe is also aware that people do read posts, find them insightful but don't need to comment on them. I don't comment on every post., so my logic tells me I shouldn't be expecting replies either), but the emotional element can't be controlled. I can try to talk it away in my head, but it doesn't speak the same language as logic. When I feel that way, the only real resolution is to talk with someone over the phone or in person. I've reluctantly resigned to the fact that when those emotions are triggered, that I am better off accepting there's a need not being met and that means of communication just isn't working and not for me.
Interesting ideas! :) I'm an ENFJ. I really like your ideas of listening and speaking functions, but I don't know if I agree in total. I mean; when you take an MBTI test you're asked if you value X over Y values. Those values are really important to both types; so.. I feel like ENFJ's, ENFP's, INFP's and INFJ's all really have Feeling as a strong function in terms of how they interact with the world. I think there may be something to your hypothesis though, I'm going to think about it. :)
How committed is committed?
If you have to express verbally and underline the fact that you're humble, it usually means you're not.
A pupil of Socrates, Antisthenes, in a show of contempt for convention and as a show of humility, decided to wear rags as he walked through Athens. When Socrates saw him, he said: "Through the holes in your clothes, I see your vanity."
I have a question and I'd appreciate it if you could clarify. I come across as an extroverted feeler as my face and body language expresses emotions (sometimes betraying me) and I am very in tune with and care a lot about other people's feelings. I tend to always take care of other people's or the group's feelings. However, I know for a fact, that I hide a lot of what is really going on inside me. I'm a deep and complicated well of emotions despite what may seem to come across. So I am not as easy to understand as what people may see. I consistently test as "NFP". Can you clarify this for me? Why do I come across as so emotionally expressive and animated which is not typical for an "NFP"?
Diana C Sounds INFP to me (though you mention Fe which would indicate INFJ)
I second this.
Hah :')
ESTP is my kryptonite. I can't. Win. Them. Over.
-INFJ
If I'm correct you would be putting you're thoughts out a emotional way and he would taking them in through Si. You'd both be putting things out in an emotional way. His would be stronger, and you'd be taking it in through Si and Ni. I'm just trying to explain what I think Dr. Mike meant. He can explain it if I'm wrong. I have a slightly different take anyways.
You can be a troll or you can be someone who gets a hug. You can't be both.
I have the awful ENFP problem of getting bored of my relationships quickly. I finally found someone that I'm committed to but he's an ISTP and doesn't understand my need for emotional support. This is coming between us. Is it possible to find someone I don't get bored of who can also give me the support I need? Any tips? To complicate things further I am an ENFP with Social Anxiety Disorder. I would love to see a video about that combination but I guess that's my self-absorption talking haha :)
What happens Anne when someone is not fair or is cruel with YOU? Not others. You specifically. Will you become overly sensitive in that case as well? Will you become stubborn or will you just let it go? INFP thanks in advance for the answer. My love is an INFJ.
ENFP here. I've been thinking a lot about this recently, particularly how Fi users appear selfish and Fe users more selfless, and I was wondering if Fe really is better than Fi, even though I see something so beautiful in my Fi friends, mostly INFP's. I still don't know how to be so comfortable with being "self-absorbed" as you are,
what about INFJs that are highly sensitive ..i can relate to what you said about the old lady being hit by the bus and then go off and question the whole meaning of it all, but I also feel very strongly personally too... i especially cry when i see a person in pain, and when someone criticizes me, it can seriously damage me inside, it damages me when i feel i said something not as sensitively as i should have and worry for days if that person is okay etc.. do you think this has to do with Fi?
Yea. I would say it's less deep then less sensitive. I would also say it's broader. I would say the same holds true for all functions when it comes to direction. As far as the talking and listening goes I'd say it fits into what I was saying about being deep or broad. I personally always saw it as more conversational. Like Fe was better at speaking through emotion, and Fi listening. I saw them as exceptionally good at both, especially when communicating to each other. Perhaps F dom vs N dom?
I was just being obnoxious so I could quote Socrates. Sheesh.
i know from deep reflection that i'm DEFINITELY an INFJ, but i really feel things extremely strongly too as you explained an NFP would... i have a hard time expressing myself though, unlike NFPs, i just can't seem to get the personal feelings out into something constructive and creative.. it mostly comes out in raw emotion ie.. anger, frustration, sadness... but i'd really like to know what you think about this... if it has anything to do with Fi or where else it may come from..
(contd...)
I just have a whole lot of them and I'm hardly forceful, quite often I don't follow them through to implementation even (I try to change this). The other thing is with emotions, I do seem to make a lot judgements based on how I feel about something, but they're internalized i think because people don't see me as an emotional person, but as someone with lotsa ideas and who's almost always happy.... also, do you guys have a forum or something? I seem to keep crossing the word limit lol
Good for you! I'm proud. I feel like NFGeeks is rehabilitating you somehow.
I see Fe and Ne as having a wider scope, where Ni and Fi have a greater depth. Extroversion could come off as knowing a lot or shallow, because it's using a wider scale. Introversion could come off as selfish or struggle to be expressed, because it's so deep. I sort of see saying Fe coming from a more insensitive place to, more unintelligent or less insightful place. More importantly what requires looking smarter than you are? RULING THE WORLD!
I can sort of see where you're going with this, particularly in manner of speech.
What if u talk as a fe but feel fi .. if someone hurts me I would not say anything because yes fe is about harmony It hurts.
As a entp I'm always told I'm a enfp and yes i have similarities but i hate debates, arguing and I have high Ti..
It was a rather interesting video . I found most of it to be incredibly insightful . I only wish the ending was a bit more conciliatory (classic Fe desire) . The ending seemed to be more along the lines of "don't judge other people -- let them all be individual" which seems to be a very Fi desire , which , is fair considering this is your video and your channel . However , because the whole video was framed as being more authoritative than subjective , it can seem as if this maxim of "don't judge other people by your type's judging" goes unchallenged and might be mistaken as universal . I propose (not coming from an emotional place but rather from a desire to protect Fe users) that it is just as legitimate to judge others and that it is legitimate to request Fi users to achieve harmony . Why ? Because if Fe users are being asked in your video to 'respect the individuality' of Fi users , that status quo achieves *what the Fi user wants* . But what about what the Fe user wants ? Do you realize that what you're asking at the end is stating your desire only ? (self-absorption to use your words) . Fe users are perhaps seeking some kind of universal etiquette or reciprocation and if you truly believe what you say that respecting the autonomy of the Fi is key , then should you not also concede that respecting the Fe's universality is also legitimate ? Shouldn't saying "don't judge others" only be applicable to Fi users ? Is it not unfair to force Fe users to repress their desire for universal and overarching standards of seflessness in relationships ? I fully understand that it's unfair to ask Fi users to switch their ways -- there is great beauty in the Fi . But the mistake here is that this video , at the end , has gone so far as to , perhaps unconsciously , push forward that the way Fis deal with interpersonal differences (e.g. 'don't judge others') is the only legitimate means for all people . It should be the legitimate means for Fis but certainly (at least in my hypothesis) not for Fes . Please let me know where I might have misunderstood so that I might better understand this topic . Thank you .
how do you find other intjs so u won't feel alone
Online forums such as personality cafe
what is your perception of intp i am looking for data of my type.
I disagree. As an INFJ take things philosophically we are very capable to feel about the projection where the Ni predicts the productiveness or destructiveness that idea will eventually take all of us.
im infp, i agree with all of what you said about nfp's but im not sure i completely agree with the talking/listening concept. is it your own idea or is it from a book? i want to investigate. in extreme cases i could see how it is a possibility but in the majority of cases i disagree based experience. i wouldn't say Fe users are insensitive but i agree that it's more shallow. (word limit)
I'm thinking in circles..