Y'all don't know the amount of suffering this man went through with all the grinding and RNG involved Good stuff bro!! Also, great coaching and math from CTOBN LOL
So unless im wrong, this whole run can go wrong if fukka dosent concentrate the party at the final turn. Also rip mitsuru for being outclassed in her magic element by a physical attacker and a healer
The sad thing about Mitsuru here is that Blizzard Edge is about 300 more damage than Divine Retribution, and the extra damage actually helps a ton with consistency. She isn't used here because she can't charge her theurgy in time while also giving the Oracle turn to Junpei. EDIT: She actually can and it does work with her.
those are extremely tight btw. For example, if the Blazing Hell right before the last turn misses Akihiko, then Akihiko starts his turn above 50% HP. This is a reset because he then doesn't charge in time due to not getting the low HP bonus.
@@pawep2966 Since you can't visit Escape to do Fortunes readings they make some fortunes in tarot cards. Example: Golden/Rare shadows appearing rate readings now is tied to the Lovers arcana
@@pawep2966 The Temperance arcana card from shuffle time in Episode Aigis increases your theurgy build rate. In the base game it increases Academics/Charm/Courage.
@@tuvieeclips Nah I got the 4 turn heartless kill 2 hours after like I said, done with this fight now. P3R is the definitive P3 experience now, and you can’t change my mind. This is someone who grew up with the Og P3, not even FES, and have put over a thousand hours into FES, Portable, and now 900 hrs in Reload. FES takes atmosphere, and FEMC is dearly missed however. Also some of FES cutscenes are better, but overall Reloads are better.
I love that the WR run uses all the mechanics that a certain portion of the P3 fanbase seem to hate. Would like to see them do this WR run or anything close without theurgy
Epic to see you pulling this off, but I have a question to ask, why don't you use Physical theurgies? To my knowledge shouldn't Physical be better as they have crit chance? Or is it that Magic damage is still higher even with Physical gets crit?
I spent the last few days on heartless grinding and prepping for the lower difficulty version of the fight. Would you reocmmend I follow one of your strats exactly just to say I've done it? Im only now learning about the under half sp theurgy charge rate
NOTE: If Joker gets a 1 More, that will be prioritized over using Sinful Shell, unless noted otherwise Both Fights - You cannot have Omnipotent Orb equipped to any party members - You cannot Null/Repel/Drain any of his attacks with 2 or more party members, or with Aigis at all. On lower difficulties, this is prioritized over a 1 More. - You cannot use Armageddon - You cannot ever start Joker's turn while a Tetrakarn or Makarakarn are up on your side - You cannot have any Charge or Concentrate effects active at the start of Joker's 1st turn - Not a rule break strictly, but at the start of his "20th turn" he will exclusively use Sinful Shell Heartless Only - You cannot have all 3 debuffs active on Joker at once when he starts his turn (for example, v v - is ok, but v v v is a rule break) - On the 2nd turn of phase 3 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Poison Mist) he will use Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, all living party members must have one of Poison or Charm. Additionally, each of Poison and Charm must be on at least 1 party member. - On the 2nd turn of phase 7 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Tentarafoo -> Poison Mist) he will use Evil Smile -> Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, each of Poison, Charm, Confuse, and Fear must be present on one of your party members. Phases - Phase advances each turn - Once his HP drops to 18,000 or less, if he hasn't reached it already, it will skip to his "11th turn", where he uses Will of Rebellion.
So what actually triggers Joker to use Sinful Shell? Have we worked it out yet? I remember back when SMT 5 came out, people had no idea what triggered Demi's Gaea Rage or Chaotic Will, though we know now that theyre triggered by not killing his demons fast enough or trying to use Tetra/Makarakarn, and at certain health intervals respectively.
NOTE: If Joker gets a 1 More, that will be prioritized over using Sinful Shell, unless noted otherwise Both Fights - You cannot have Omnipotent Orb equipped to any party members - You cannot Null/Repel/Drain any of his attacks with 2 or more party members, or with Aigis at all. On lower difficulties, this is prioritized over a 1 More. - You cannot use Armageddon - You cannot ever start Joker's turn while a Tetrakarn or Makarakarn are up on your side - You cannot have any Charge or Concentrate effects active at the start of Joker's 1st turn - Not a rule break strictly, but at the start of his "20th turn" he will exclusively use Sinful Shell Heartless Only - You cannot have all 3 debuffs active on Joker at once when he starts his turn (for example, v v - is ok, but v v v is a rule break) - On the 2nd turn of phase 3 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Poison Mist) he will use Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, all living party members must have one of Poison or Charm. Additionally, each of Poison and Charm must be on at least 1 party member. - On the 2nd turn of phase 7 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Tentarafoo -> Poison Mist) he will use Evil Smile -> Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, each of Poison, Charm, Confuse, and Fear must be present on one of your party members. Phases - Phase advances each turn - Once his HP drops to 18,000 or less, if he hasn't reached it already, it will skip to his "11th turn", where he uses Will of Rebellion.
@@lewisspring35 Not true actually, since you don't get a turn between Sexy Dance and the rule check. That being said he can just miss with one of the ailments, and the only one you can self-apply is Poison.
There are very few factors that mind when choosing a persona to build. This is due to Stats and Moves being entirely changeable, so a maxed out Pixie is equal to a maxed out Siegfried. Here are the factors you should take into mind from most to least important: Personal Preference. As stated, any persona can be strong. Unique Moves. This is what makes the strongest personas the strongest. Affinities. Although all can be equalised with the use of Omnipotent orb, this still is a factor that makes some personas better than others. Magic Mastery inheritability. This is an incredibly small factor, but it is one non the less. If you would like personas good in each category, Milady has an amazing Unique Move, Messiah has amazing Affinities, and Magic Mastery inheritance is a lot more complicated than the other two and can’t be described briefly.
It's a sinful if you have a charge at the start of joker's 1st turn. Since Joker goes first, this window has already passed by the time you get to move.
Why switch your healer to Satan? - He resists fire and is weak to wind. Is the weakness to wind on purpose? - Yes. Aigis needs to get up from a knockdown in order to refill her theurgy in time. Additionally, there's a risk that Joker using Panta Rhei on Junpei will kill or dizzy him, and Aigis getting knocked down too mitigates that risk. Is Ken the only viable 4th member for the 4 turn strat? - Sadly yes. Mitsuru and Metis both have better theurgy damage than Ken, and that extra damage would actually help consistency a lot. Unfortunately neither of them can refill the theurgy gauge in time for turn 4 without being the one to use Oracle, which is reserved for Junpei already. EDIT: it's possible that Yukari also gets her theurgy back in time (I haven't checked), however there's no point to that since Cyclone Arrows does 2.2% less damage than Divine Retribution anyways. EDIT 2: No she doesn't. She only hits 78% meter at the start of her turn 4. It has to be Ken exactly.
@@cantthinkofbettername5065I see, thanks for the input! I was thinking along the line of getting mitsuru knocked down on the blazing hell turn, but don't think she can charge her theurgy fast enough even with that. Metis is out as she can't get knocked down even if she has higher theurgy damage than Ken. No reason to consider Koro and Yukari as they have the lowest theurgy damage
@@kentan9387 she actually can just barely (as in she charges a total of 100.1% in optimal circumstances, while previously I overlooked the low HP bonus). You'd need to switch to "resist wind fire weak" though since Mitsuru getting targeted by Inferno means automatic death, which mitigates a lot of the benefit of switching to her instead of Ken (though it would be better odds still, as I found out today). Metis also has the unambiguous worst theurgy charge speed in every regard if Aigis can't shift to her. Even if Metis got knocked down and was put at low HP, she still wouldn't get it in time.
This is the ultimate RNG, even getting knocked was planned for faster theurgy charge, I'm pretty sure unless there's a game breaking bug that allows you to charge theurgies from 0% to 100% in a single turn, 4 is the lowest you will see on Heartless
Is it even possible to win this fight without month of farming, dlc personas and perfectly made personas on heartless? I grind a bit but it seems that i need much more time to do him
Q: Doable without a month of farming A: Depends mostly on the player. Q: Doable without DLC Personas A: Yes, very. Q: Doable without perfectly made personas A: No, you need to optimize HP/SP, Strength, Magic and Endurance to properly do this in 4 turns.
Yes. You literally cannot get them any faster. Getting them back by turn 4 you need to do incredibly specific things to squeeze every tiny bit of refill back you can. Every single action from the party and joker including starting sp and being knocked down on purpose was pre-planned to barely allowed for this
Did you notice the trick with Oracle to get Junpei's theurgy charged in time? Mitsuru needs that too. Ken doesn't. EDIT: Turns out she just barely doesn't need it.
@@NurulSera Because the second you learn the rules you can approach the fight in almost any conceivable way with moderate success. Same with DDS Demi Fiend!
@@NurulSera That has nothing to do with what I said tho. Also Elizabeth’s hidden rules are very intuitive, Jokers aren’t at all. And Joker actively prevents innovation.
![[Limbus Company] A Little Hungry (ReUpload)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FEtqPwU219A/mqdefault.jpg)
Y'all don't know the amount of suffering this man went through with all the grinding and RNG involved
Good stuff bro!! Also, great coaching and math from CTOBN LOL
"Joker persona 5 is a FRAUD"
so real
I worked for Joker, he's a fraud.
- akechi
dont put my goats name and fraud in the same sentence 🤫
I love it when number go down.
Congrats, btw.
it was thanks to you❤
So unless im wrong, this whole run can go wrong if fukka dosent concentrate the party at the final turn. Also rip mitsuru for being outclassed in her magic element by a physical attacker and a healer
yep, it's a 1/5 chance of fuuka oracle and it can screw the entire attempt
@@tuvieeclips be honest, how many attempts did you lose to that
The sad thing about Mitsuru here is that Blizzard Edge is about 300 more damage than Divine Retribution, and the extra damage actually helps a ton with consistency. She isn't used here because she can't charge her theurgy in time while also giving the Oracle turn to Junpei.
EDIT: She actually can and it does work with her.
@@TheRealJunpeiIori. I lost track being completely honest lmaooo
I would love a guide of sorts to fight him as I don't think I can beat him without help
We are finding the answer with this one 🗣️🔥
Bro is breaking his own world records like its still the olympics
lmfaooo
Holy shit those last theurgies looked like they came out of nowhere. That card is crazy. Well done!
those are extremely tight btw.
For example, if the Blazing Hell right before the last turn misses Akihiko, then Akihiko starts his turn above 50% HP. This is a reset because he then doesn't charge in time due to not getting the low HP bonus.
What card?
@@pawep2966 Since you can't visit Escape to do Fortunes readings they make some fortunes in tarot cards. Example:
Golden/Rare shadows appearing rate readings now is tied to the Lovers arcana
@@pawep2966 The Temperance arcana card from shuffle time in Episode Aigis increases your theurgy build rate. In the base game it increases Academics/Charm/Courage.
Each song fits for the attempts
you noticed the hidden detail, i commend u xD
I love the music😂 Good work!
For dr.Maruki final boss
He never saw it coming
DONT SLEEP THROUGH DREAMS THAT CAN COME TRUE (god I love this song so much)
Let’s gooo you replace Mitsuru with an actual good character
lmaoo
An item lol
Common Mitsuru L
ding dong ur opinion is wrong (akihiko is the true d tier pick here)
@@saj9972 he clearly carried fym
The phantom thieves leader traveled through time as a secret boss. Too bad Morgana isn't with him
Rip Mitsuru nation. Nice run!
Guess he didn’t see that coming, definitely was a last surprise for him
Damn, same morning I got the kill! Looks like you were like 2 hour faster! Great job Tuviee!
Edit for anyone in the future: Magic Mastery works :)
What theurgies did you use and how did you avoid hitting the cap?
@@sydb_2895 Wdym “the cap”? Hitting the cap is a good thing! Dream fest.
gl with it!
@@tuvieeclips Nah I got the 4 turn heartless kill 2 hours after like I said, done with this fight now. P3R is the definitive P3 experience now, and you can’t change my mind. This is someone who grew up with the Og P3, not even FES, and have put over a thousand hours into FES, Portable, and now 900 hrs in Reload. FES takes atmosphere, and FEMC is dearly missed however. Also some of FES cutscenes are better, but overall Reloads are better.
I love that the WR run uses all the mechanics that a certain portion of the P3 fanbase seem to hate. Would like to see them do this WR run or anything close without theurgy
It hasn’t even been a week woah.
I need some sleep
I couldn't even get to him on a lower difficulty. Congratulations ❤
insanely well done, go get some rest lol
will do!
how much did you grind for all this lmao? huge props to you and everyone who helped discover this though man
we had to optimize getting hp / stats by save scumming monads and chests, it was almost 3 days of non-stop re rolling
I so wish i could beat joker, not even like you guys did, i mean at all, hes too tough for my team
Can’t wait for three turns!
It's not happening 💀
Congrats!
tyy
This Joker makes yu and makoto
Velvet room boss fights on hard look weak lol
In just 2 turns, you finish charging 2 Theurgies for the team.
I needed to get knocked with junpei and aigis to achieve this as well as a lot of many other micro optimizations, but here we are
tuviee da goat no cap
puro grindeo
Peak.
Epic to see you pulling this off, but I have a question to ask, why don't you use Physical theurgies? To my knowledge shouldn't Physical be better as they have crit chance? Or is it that Magic damage is still higher even with Physical gets crit?
Heartless Joker cannot be Crit.
That's the funny part, as the other response state you can't crit this boss in Heartless, if you could 1 turn strategies would be here
Satan as healer persona 😂😂
Now that is irony
i needed something that resists fire and weak to wind, he just happened to be the one
OMG
GO GET SOME SLEEP @Tuviee 😂
ye i needed some lmaoo
I spent the last few days on heartless grinding and prepping for the lower difficulty version of the fight. Would you reocmmend I follow one of your strats exactly just to say I've done it? Im only now learning about the under half sp theurgy charge rate
I don't recommend following my strats, on lower difficulties there's an entirely different set of rules
@@tuvieeclips I'm doing it on Heartless. I just didn't learn about how it was different until now
Have you ever tried fighting Jonkler solo?
No, I don't think I have it in me to try this
What music was playing during the build showcase portion?
Endless Explore P5X
So what are the hidden rules of this boss, has that been fully figured out?
NOTE: If Joker gets a 1 More, that will be prioritized over using Sinful Shell, unless noted otherwise
Both Fights
- You cannot have Omnipotent Orb equipped to any party members
- You cannot Null/Repel/Drain any of his attacks with 2 or more party members, or with Aigis at all. On lower difficulties, this is prioritized over a 1 More.
- You cannot use Armageddon
- You cannot ever start Joker's turn while a Tetrakarn or Makarakarn are up on your side
- You cannot have any Charge or Concentrate effects active at the start of Joker's 1st turn
- Not a rule break strictly, but at the start of his "20th turn" he will exclusively use Sinful Shell
Heartless Only
- You cannot have all 3 debuffs active on Joker at once when he starts his turn (for example, v v - is ok, but v v v is a rule break)
- On the 2nd turn of phase 3 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Poison Mist) he will use Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, all living party members must have one of Poison or Charm. Additionally, each of Poison and Charm must be on at least 1 party member.
- On the 2nd turn of phase 7 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Tentarafoo -> Poison Mist) he will use Evil Smile -> Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, each of Poison, Charm, Confuse, and Fear must be present on one of your party members.
Phases
- Phase advances each turn
- Once his HP drops to 18,000 or less, if he hasn't reached it already, it will skip to his "11th turn", where he uses Will of Rebellion.
So what actually triggers Joker to use Sinful Shell? Have we worked it out yet? I remember back when SMT 5 came out, people had no idea what triggered Demi's Gaea Rage or Chaotic Will, though we know now that theyre triggered by not killing his demons fast enough or trying to use Tetra/Makarakarn, and at certain health intervals respectively.
my previous vid description pretty much covers it
NOTE: If Joker gets a 1 More, that will be prioritized over using Sinful Shell, unless noted otherwise
Both Fights
- You cannot have Omnipotent Orb equipped to any party members
- You cannot Null/Repel/Drain any of his attacks with 2 or more party members, or with Aigis at all. On lower difficulties, this is prioritized over a 1 More.
- You cannot use Armageddon
- You cannot ever start Joker's turn while a Tetrakarn or Makarakarn are up on your side
- You cannot have any Charge or Concentrate effects active at the start of Joker's 1st turn
- Not a rule break strictly, but at the start of his "20th turn" he will exclusively use Sinful Shell
Heartless Only
- You cannot have all 3 debuffs active on Joker at once when he starts his turn (for example, v v - is ok, but v v v is a rule break)
- On the 2nd turn of phase 3 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Poison Mist) he will use Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, all living party members must have one of Poison or Charm. Additionally, each of Poison and Charm must be on at least 1 party member.
- On the 2nd turn of phase 7 (turn 1 is Stagnant Air -> Tentarafoo -> Poison Mist) he will use Evil Smile -> Sexy Dance. After the Sexy Dance, each of Poison, Charm, Confuse, and Fear must be present on one of your party members.
Phases
- Phase advances each turn
- Once his HP drops to 18,000 or less, if he hasn't reached it already, it will skip to his "11th turn", where he uses Will of Rebellion.
@@cantthinkofbettername5065 ok, that thing about the ailments is insane, youre basically fucked if you have instaheal
@@lewisspring35 Not true actually, since you don't get a turn between Sexy Dance and the rule check. That being said he can just miss with one of the ailments, and the only one you can self-apply is Poison.
ive been prepping and grinding for the joker fight whats the best builds😭
There are very few factors that mind when choosing a persona to build. This is due to Stats and Moves being entirely changeable, so a maxed out Pixie is equal to a maxed out Siegfried. Here are the factors you should take into mind from most to least important:
Personal Preference. As stated, any persona can be strong.
Unique Moves. This is what makes the strongest personas the strongest.
Affinities. Although all can be equalised with the use of Omnipotent orb, this still is a factor that makes some personas better than others.
Magic Mastery inheritability. This is an incredibly small factor, but it is one non the less. If you would like personas good in each category, Milady has an amazing Unique Move, Messiah has amazing Affinities, and Magic Mastery inheritance is a lot more complicated than the other two and can’t be described briefly.
Hold on why didn't he use sinful shell if you charged first turn? And how could you get the Theurgy all the way to max that quickly?
It's a sinful if you have a charge at the start of joker's 1st turn. Since Joker goes first, this window has already passed by the time you get to move.
Hey man can you share your savefile? I want to try shit out but can't really grind everything to do it
Why switch your healer to Satan? Is the weakness to wind on purpose? Also, is Ken the only viable 4th member for the 4-turn strat?
Why switch your healer to Satan?
- He resists fire and is weak to wind.
Is the weakness to wind on purpose?
- Yes. Aigis needs to get up from a knockdown in order to refill her theurgy in time. Additionally, there's a risk that Joker using Panta Rhei on Junpei will kill or dizzy him, and Aigis getting knocked down too mitigates that risk.
Is Ken the only viable 4th member for the 4 turn strat?
- Sadly yes. Mitsuru and Metis both have better theurgy damage than Ken, and that extra damage would actually help consistency a lot. Unfortunately neither of them can refill the theurgy gauge in time for turn 4 without being the one to use Oracle, which is reserved for Junpei already.
EDIT: it's possible that Yukari also gets her theurgy back in time (I haven't checked), however there's no point to that since Cyclone Arrows does 2.2% less damage than Divine Retribution anyways.
EDIT 2: No she doesn't. She only hits 78% meter at the start of her turn 4. It has to be Ken exactly.
@@cantthinkofbettername5065I see, thanks for the input! I was thinking along the line of getting mitsuru knocked down on the blazing hell turn, but don't think she can charge her theurgy fast enough even with that. Metis is out as she can't get knocked down even if she has higher theurgy damage than Ken. No reason to consider Koro and Yukari as they have the lowest theurgy damage
@@kentan9387 she actually can just barely (as in she charges a total of 100.1% in optimal circumstances, while previously I overlooked the low HP bonus). You'd need to switch to "resist wind fire weak" though since Mitsuru getting targeted by Inferno means automatic death, which mitigates a lot of the benefit of switching to her instead of Ken (though it would be better odds still, as I found out today).
Metis also has the unambiguous worst theurgy charge speed in every regard if Aigis can't shift to her. Even if Metis got knocked down and was put at low HP, she still wouldn't get it in time.
This probably can still be optimized if u get better rng
This is the ultimate RNG, even getting knocked was planned for faster theurgy charge, I'm pretty sure unless there's a game breaking bug that allows you to charge theurgies from 0% to 100% in a single turn, 4 is the lowest you will see on Heartless
doing it in fewer turns means
- Only 1 Oracle
- only 1 batch of theurgies with optimized buffs/debuffs
it's not happening.
Is it even possible to win this fight without month of farming, dlc personas and perfectly made personas on heartless? I grind a bit but it seems that i need much more time to do him
Q: Doable without a month of farming
A: Depends mostly on the player.
Q: Doable without DLC Personas
A: Yes, very.
Q: Doable without perfectly made personas
A: No, you need to optimize HP/SP, Strength, Magic and Endurance to properly do this in 4 turns.
@@tuvieeclips i don't speak about 4 turns, it is more about beating him at all even in 20 turns which seems the limit
Theurgy's all are fastest ?
Yes. You literally cannot get them any faster. Getting them back by turn 4 you need to do incredibly specific things to squeeze every tiny bit of refill back you can. Every single action from the party and joker including starting sp and being knocked down on purpose was pre-planned to barely allowed for this
what’s the dungeon bgm you have on?
Default one, but I edited Endless Explore from P5x in
@@tuvieeclips ah that explains why i couldn’t find it lol. it’s a good one
Why the switch to ken?
Faster Theurgy charge rate mainly, among other reasons.
Did you notice the trick with Oracle to get Junpei's theurgy charged in time? Mitsuru needs that too. Ken doesn't.
EDIT: Turns out she just barely doesn't need it.
The conditions for winning this fight is reminiscent of Null Sleep proc-ing in DDS Demi Fiend lmfao
This looks like complete horse shit
Nah dw he’s WAY easier. Unfortunately a lot less fun, P3 FES Elizabeth and DDS Demi Fiend remain the best SMT bosses.
@@Megidolaon999how so? I thought Elizabeth’s fight in FES was kinda bullshit lol
@@NurulSera Because the second you learn the rules you can approach the fight in almost any conceivable way with moderate success. Same with DDS Demi Fiend!
@@Megidolaon999 Is that not the case with Joker here? Like both of them have hidden rules the player would know nothing abt
@@NurulSera That has nothing to do with what I said tho. Also Elizabeth’s hidden rules are very intuitive, Jokers aren’t at all. And Joker actively prevents innovation.
Bros calling it world record but he has been one turned like day 2
Would you like to share this heartless 1 turn with the rest of the class?
When you get a turn 1 Heartless difficulty win (which you won't) then you can talk all the shit you want.
the amount of effort u put to achieve this is commendable 🫡
tyyy