Gave everyone dueling swords, making them solo-able, but keep nerfing ogryn, the least solo-able class. Thought they were going to fix their useless tree. Instead, they moved around nodes, making ogryn's 1 of 2 build paths weaker lol. I was mad when they nerfed kickbacks reload awhile back, too. I dont get fatshark
Yeah their balance philosophy is all over the place. They're obviously keeping stuff like VoC as it is because of Havoc.. but then do these weird "who asked for this" nerfs on the least played class who suffers the most on the dumb shooter buffs. What..are..they..doing..
If they want coherency to matter it needs to continue working while enemies are near. That would actually be a good buff to Ogyrn. His toughness passively builds while allies are near. Supposedly that's his role, protecting his allies. Currently his coherency ends first as his "melee range" is bigger because of his larger hitbox.
not quite how coherency toughness regen works, only gets disabled when an enemy is actively attacking you in melee. Which is why toughness regen speed on curios is really good
@@johnhargis99coherency toughness regen turns off as soon as an enemy enters one of your melee "slots", this can be before it even winds up an attack. This means you will not be regenrating toughness from coherency when you need it most - in the thick of battle. Toughness coherency regen is among the worst stats in the game and you should avoid it on curios and not go out of your way to get talents for it. You will be getting much more toughness back from just fighting and killing enemies. I'm not having a go at you to be clear, Fatshark really needs to clarify their tooltips so people know what effects the different stats have.
@@t.f.9 yeah im not reading all that, i know how the slot system works, i know how coherency regen works, i know how toughness regen speed works on curios, and finally i know that it is basically the best option to have on curios👍
@@J.B.1982 the problem is that you can tank more efficiently with the other two keystones, people say that you just turn your brain off with feel no pain but are you really doing much with the other two? Like for example with gun ogryn you can tank far better than feel no pain and all your doing is shooting and using brace. I don’t think feel no pain is unusable but just far worse than the other two keystones.
@@mota7455 That’s a fair assessment. I notice for me, I can chill out a little more with Feel No Pain. That’s the reason I like Ogryn, I can be less twitchy. But I’m not saying it’s good. Lol Burst Limiter is the most useless for me.
It's insane to me that there are people out there saying it's a buff to non-gunlugger builds. They think the increased toughness regen from coherency is somehow better than 15% on consecutive shots from Kickback (The arguably best non-gunlugger ranged weapon for Ogryn.)
Coherency toughness regen really should get reworked, that would instantly buff like half the worthless nodes in skill trees because for some reason there are a lot of those. Literally just make it never stop regenerating while in coherency, always a constant small regen even if there are enemies near you. Hell if that somehow makes the game too easy just change the numbers later, but with how slow it is compared to other sources I don't think it'd be broken.
@@denodagor They should just combine Lynchpin and Towering Presence and put Reloaded and Ready back where it was. Then they free up a slot to add coherency always active in combat somewhere on tree.
As a main ogryn i'm pissed... I feel the problem is maybe with the ogryn testers they maybe dont represent the casual ogryn player.... If you want to kill bosses quick you only have 2 choices... Left tree side with the axe or right side with burn... Ogryn is already the least played class and with this stupid decisions there will be less and less ogryns...
Yea some of the testers are the people who made the ogrynnomicon which I found useful as a new player. Then I realized only the weapon part of the entire book were useful. Everything else is completely dogshit especially when it praised useless curio perks. Currently the 4% combat regen should be in the top spot but is rated low because Ogryns cooldowns are low. They also praised coherency and toughness regen perks/nodes which is completely useless when you actually looked into how the game functions. Tanner Lindberg showcases a model of how it worked and my goodness do they need to rework these things. The changes at the top tree makes a lot of sense when you look at the perspective of how they praise it for making an Ogryn more tanky. Every node up there is meant to regen or restore toughness and the reload damage node didn’t fit in with the theme.
Nearly every ogryn player is a casual ogryn player, yry hard players simply don't play ogryn because theirs no real reason to compared to all other classes
Am I the only person on this earth that thinks Psyker's talent needs some clean up. So many talents but not enough points... Couple nods should be combined in together to ease up choices. Basically, Psyker is having opposite issue of Ogryn; too much talent. Also JTC please tell Fatshark to implement some of the mod features to the vanilla game so that console players can benefit them... As I see, almost everyone uses numerical UI, scoreboard, healthbars mods etc. If you are playtesting this game with those mods, then those mods should be a part of the game.
Psyker is weird in that all his blitzes are pretty useless if he takes a staff. You only have one peril bar and the staff is generally stronger. Psyker blitzes should be exclusively charge based not peril based.
I mean personally I don't think the healthbar mod should be used. That's information that you shouldn't really have access to in any way. That's more than a QoL fix, that's giving you perfect information you shouldn't have. Just my own two cents.
@@EvilTwinn Yeah it is 100% more than QoL but I do think it makes the game better overall. I started using it when I found out and it just feels so good seeing the healthbar get chunked when you hit with something strong. It activates my neurons and makes me big happy. While also being a more direct feedback of what works in an actual combat scenario vs what doesn't, because you are always sure you did that damage to the enemy instead of your teammate and how much you contributed or if the enemy was already damaged, etc... It's not only a net positive while you're using it, you're also learning the game faster.
They need to fix Psyker's terrible nodes before they even think about overhauling the tree. Penetration of the Soul (10% rending when above 75% peril) does nothing, it's a totally inert node, yet if you're trying to reach Warp Siphon it's still better to take it over Empyric Resolve (-40% peril generation, -30% toughness generation). That talent is so hilariously bad and counter-intuitive to how Psyker is supposed to be played that it is better to take the bugged talent that does LITERALLY NOTHING over it, and that's just two talents; I won't even get into how two of his three auras get overshadowed by Seer's Presence or the fact that Assail is made worse than Smite or Brain Burst not because it isn't as effective as a blitz, but because you can't get Psykinetic's Aura with it.
Me and jeficus had a 3 hour call talking about these issues the other day. Lost the recording. Going to be making another video on this and other topics, but you summed up most of the issues - Maybe how significant the issues are could be identified as more severe, it REALLY affects the solo/duo experience. It almost ruins the generalist build - and does make kickback much worse. Gonna make another vid on the topic, good vid jtc
I thought about this as well... it makes sense for a 1000 pound monster to be able to push off a tiny dog or even resist an electric net. Maybe make it a node of the feel no pain cluster?
It would be interesting to take a net or dog that is about to be disable another player knowing you'll be up in a little bit Might cause issues of Ogryns standing in front of shooting humans when they don't need to be But a cool passive idea nonetheless
@@jesunghwang1585 the value you would get from taking a dog on purpose to save a teammate will always be outweighed by killing the dog so i dont see that as a valuable tactic although it might happen for shits and giggles yes. ogryns could just really use the extra benefits cause they have too many downsides compared to the other classes
Funny thing to see when fatshark approve feral nerfs on already not so good doing class on behalf of some malice average playtesters. I guess they forgot that dmg numbers are different in higher difficulty levels.
@Hopehope19ru I'm all for giving the Ogryn more options but to say the class isn't doing fine is wrong. Ogryn is the best support class in the game and makes runs easier for everyone around them.
@@streven1331 What do you mean by support? Vet gives more utility through survivalist, more stagger through shout and more tankiness through shout, while also having more mobility and dealing more damage.
@t.f.9 they can do clutch pickups and have constant, on demand crowd control against hard to stagger targets without needing to wait for an ability cooldown to do either thing. They can also aggro pretty much every enemy in the game if they want to. They're the best damn bodyguard a vet could ask for. The things about ogryns that make them so valuable are mostly built into them at base level and aren't as obvious to people just looking at the skill trees. Yes, voice of command is the most broken thing in the game. That to me is an outlier and should have been adjusted along time ago but that ship has sailed.
that's just kind of wrong What does Ogryn provide to the team? In best case scenario it's loyal protector damage buff on taunted enemies or staggering enemies with charge, gun-lugger is nothing but a parasite on the team. Ogryns can barely deal with gunners, they do okay against elites, but they hardly provide any utility to the team. Zealots will outkill Ogryns in every way and also chorus is the best support ability in the game, Veterans bring shout, survivalist, infinite grenades to crowd control better than any ogryn could. And then there is psyker, who gives everyone cooldown reduction, deletes hordes with all staffs, deletes everything but crushers with 90% of the staffs, has third best support ability in bubble shield. Idk, Ogryn is just lacking, given the same resources to all classes, ogryns will usually come out at the bottom, and sadly with how the game is balanced right now, doing damage is the best contribution you can give to the team. If it was VT2 where you could have a class like ironbreaker just be the tank, because he gives constant buffs to everyone around him, then it could work. But the only buff that Ogryn can provide is the 20% damage increase from loyal protector, and even then it's arguable how effective that is since it takes away opportunities from your zealots and vets to proc their on dodge talents (dueling and reciprocity respectively) on top of whatever weapon blessings they may have. So in short, yeah Ogryn is just lagging behind everyone, as every other class can do what ogryn does but better
@@streven1331 Ogryn is the most selfish class, with no ability to boost allies' toughness. Calling it the best support class is just plain untrue. I see what you mean, but relic can achieve the same clutch pickup in 90% cases
To be frank i was expecting more accessibility with the nodes which every other class did have in the past to help with build variety, not a switch of some talents in weird places leading to a straight up nerf.
So frustrating. They need to make him move and slide faster. While he should be slower than other classes he shouldn't be as slow as he is. And please for the luv of the Emprah, allow him to jump over a rail. On the higher difficulties that can kill him faster than a barrel!
I agree. We need interesting choices and a proper role in a team. Ogryns need to excel at something and not be overshadowed by all other classes in every single meaningful category (damage output, survivability, team support etc.).
@@Zectifin you cannot build anything interesting in the Ogryn tree at all. Ogryn has the least amount of weapons by far and they only have a terrible tech with the least amount of creative builds you can do. If anything overhauling to look like the veteran tech tree would be a good start.
@@jafsrob haven't we learned enough about releasing half-baked things with the release of Darktide already? Let them cook. And also let them know we're not happy, just in case they did make a mistake
Honestly, it feels like an oversight and disconnect of how FS sees people playing Ogryn. The changes to the skill tree make sense in a vacuum, all the gunlugger talents are now close to each other and readily available on that side of the tree but the nuances of how each talent is used was disregarded. I feel like the current skill tree system, for all classes, is weirdly restrictive of what talents you can use and may cause FS some problems later down the line if they want to introduce new classes or subclasses.
The Ogryn is the only class I have yet to max out and gear up, as it never felt right for me to play. Based on my limited experience, this class lacks its own unique mechanics or play style; it felt more like I could play it similarly to the Veteran or Zealot. The only distinguishing factor for me was the similar types of equipment. I've been waiting for FatShark to rework the class for a while, but I forgot. My desire to play Ogryn as a crowd-control tank doesn't work well. I hope to enjoy it more once I unlock the full class tree.
Ogryn feels like playing an entirely different game compared to the rest. Big, slow, comparatively poor ranged with great damage, reliance on heavy attacks for a lot of melee. I literally leveled sharpshooter twice before I finished leveling Ogryn. He does have some wild attack range, and the slab shield makes for some interesting plays. Buuut the zealot 2H power sword is so good I don't really want to play ogryn again anytime soon.
yeah as a psyker main ogryn feels so incredibly weird in comparison to any other class. for a while after the game came out i genuinely considered ogryn a meme class because it was so weird and different from anything else in the game. now that ive actually played ogryn i question the value of like half of the class’s kit. what’s the point of the slab shield when shout and relic exist? why do literally any other kind of melee build that isn’t just strictly heavy attacks, and then why even pick ogryn for it? this class feels insanely poorly balanced right now imo. i know some people really want more ogryn weapons but i think the class has bigger issues than a lack of weapons
Very confusing changes indeed. Harassing playtesters over a mistake is unacceptable, but what if it was actually a case where the playtesters are insular low-skill players passing off incredibly bad takes as serious balance changes with no intention of engaging with criticism or playing higher difficulties, while simultaneously bullying other playtesters and mocking the community for not understanding their genius? If and only if that is the case, THEN can we name and shame them? Surely you can concede that, right? I mean surely the odds of that being true are low enough that you'd feel safe cosigning that, if not in practice then at least in principal?
Oh, influencers are not providing playtesting out of goodness; they are doing it to get early access to bolster their channels with content-that is money. Fatshark is obviously using the wrong criteria selecting and listening to testers, which explains a lot about this game's erratic development.
This isn't an oops moment we are at back to back nerfs over months of time with people voicing displeasure over the constant small or major nerfs to ogryn when very overpowered stuff still doesn't get touched.
Ogryn seems sort of perpetually doomed to be paid no attention. They can't share models or weapons with any other class, all content has to be specifically built and can only be used by Ogryns. They have far fewer weapons than any of the other classes, which is reflected in their builds, which can only cater one of two generic playstyles, both of which are done better by other classes. People don't play Ogryn because of the inherent lack of variety, so Fatshark pays Ogryns less attention, which means fewer people play Ogryn. No wonder they've waited this long to receive a single new gun. TIme spent creating content for Ogryns is time that could be spent creating content for the other 90% of the playerbase who are playing a better class. It's honestly really depressing, because I'd put money on the table that the Ogryn contributed to selling the game far more than any of the other classes just by sheer character alone.
Can confirm. I only bought darktide to play the big man, because that archetype is my shit. I can still make him work in Havoc - but only with the slab shield, which trivializes 90% of the game anyway. Zealot's too strong? Nerf ogryn. Buff zealot. Psyker's too strong? Nerf ogryn. Nerf psyker, then undo the nerf, and then nerf ogryn again.
Delete Towering Presence, useless talent. Put something useful there, like a talent that reduces ranged damage taken for example, getting shredded less by shooters is always nice. Overall Ogryn needs a big update to replace, rework or buff the bad talents. Add more build variety to Ogryn as well by adding more talents.
I don't know if non-Ogryn players know this, but towering presence also increases the range at which you are effected by other player's auras. It keeps the party "linked" to you and is really, really good.
@@Sceptis Who doesn't know this? The problem with coherency is that the regeneration stops when you're within 8m of an enemy. No one cares about the auras apart from survivalist and benediction.
@@Sceptis Auras don't matter apart from like 4 of them, Survivalist, Benediction and both Psykers CDR Auras. The rest are weak and barely matter. The Coherency regen mechanic is entirely useless since a single enemy filling a melee slot disables regen.
@@troller9838 With the new placement of towering presence, it's a one point investment for a small support boon and some peace of mind. You're right: most auras are not game-breaking additions and cohesion is far from a perfect mechanic. That said, I personally like having 15% toughness DR from a Zealot or ammo/grenade recovery from the Vet granted from greater distances. Some Auras synergize really well with my build. The fact that it _can_ help toughness regen is nice too.
I'm a simple Ogryn player I'd love it if: - The humble rock could stun a monstrosity like it once did - Slab shield could smack Crushers out of their strike like it once was able to - be able to get out of trappers nets and plague hounds with quicktime prompts ;p
The biggest problem I have with Ogryn is that they don't really have a proper role in a team. They look like tanks but their damage reduction is not better and their toughness regeneration is even worse then other classes. Besides a little taunt they have no options to protect other players and their giant hit box lets them be the biggest and easiest target in the room. We are way worse in bullet dodging while sprinting and other defense options are also pretty much out of the window. Zealot can do more melee damage then us and Veteran can do better range damage then us (and more consistent). This is topped by a skill tree that is just boring to level. When I look at Veteran skill tree for example - there are so many interesting choices that actually change the way the class feels and plays significantly. I get jealous. But for Ogryn it's just: "Here have a bit more melee damage" or "Your attacks regenerate a bit more toughness then usual"... wooo.. all the excitement.
veteran having better damage reduction than ogryn is beyond fucked imo. also yeah when veteran has nodes like field improv and the double grenade and grenade regen ones, zealot has thy wrath be swift and until death, psyker has…psyker shit and ogryn has shit like the node for hitting Exactly One Dude with a heavy attack, like…what the fuck lmfao
So they added a skill point tax to the least played / weakest class, they buffed gunners, which are the Achilles heel of ogryns. This is my least played class and when I was respecing skills it was really annoying to not be able to move across tracks, like all of the other classes, like why though?
Been playing Ogryn and having a blast. The builds are weird though and don't real feel helpful class for the team. The charged heavy build is very fun but one of the best talents is for full charged heavy's which is something you usually should not go for. I feel they should just rework his entire tree and reshuffle stuff around and change talents. Give his grenades modifiers also, such as giving big friendly rock a rebar modifier for armor enemies or faster cooldown, or have the box of grenades have different nades inside of the box, such as smokes or fire. There is a lot of fun potential to be had but the trees are two restricting for that fun.
I like a lot of the changes to Darktide that were finally implemented. But the Ogryn has always been an afterthought character that is constantly overlooked. For the size of an Ogryn they should be dealing crazy melee damage but they are weak in melee unless you use heavy attacks and like knocking enemies down, only to have them stand up again and again. It makes zero sense. Ogryn should be slow, but should also be powerful enough to one shot packs of chaff enemies and do serious damage to monstrosities. He should be able to tank a lot more melee damage, especially from weak chaff enemies as well as being able to snap the neck of hounds and throw them off. If some basic things like this were implemented, a lot more people would play him,
Ogryn shouldn't be slow. He should be by far the fastest class at a sprint. Canonically they can run as fast as (or even faster than) an Astartes who is not wearing their power armour, and these big tall guys with massive legs should be covering more distance per step than the baseline humans.
@@sulphuric_glue4468 I don't mean slow to cover the map, but as slow moving in combat as they are. Due to their massive size, should be doing a lot more damage and be able to tank a lot more than they do. I agree that due to their height, they should be able to lope along at a good pace along with the rest of the team.
caveat on reloaded and ready: the bonus damage only applies to the projectile for rumbler and NOT the explosion, which is obviously the best part and meant I would not take that talent on a strictly rumbler build
"It got nerfed because pinky promise they're maybe potentially kinda possibly gonna make the not bad in 6 months" What are you okay Make it good now. Make it good in 8 months. Why does it need to be unbearably bad for months on end? How is it SO HARD for developers to get this right???? If the obvious outcome of the "temporary" change is that its terrible, why not buff the hell out of those bad nodes and then revert them when you're overhauling the whole tree anyway? "Hey, we've moved these nodes. We are aware that this fundamentally changes some builds. As a temporary measure until we overhaul the tree to give Ogryn deeper viablity and playstyle freedom, we are tripling their effect". "no one should insult Fatshark" you misinterpreting passionate outcry doesn't make spirited discussion suddenly "toxic" or "insult". A developer who looks at the state of Darktide and thinks "hmmm, better nerf Ogryn and give him tax nodes and entirely restrict the tree to literally just left, middle and right!" has no right to dismiss players being upset that a bad class is made nigh unviable.
This is such a nice vid, I have no idea what it's like to playtest but I do have an Idea of what its like to be an Ogryn main. While the talent shifts annoyed me they didnt send my builds into the unusable state many claim to now be in, which is just not true. But what bothered me was seeing the Ogryn community, us dumb slabs who call people "sah" and "small un" in chats with our stupid names, was seeing people in this community go and threaten violent acts upon devs and play testers over these changes. (Guarantee 90% of them don't main Ogryn cause most of the Ogryn mains I talk to barely noticed the changes.) I am a strong believer they are bad changed, but I'm in agreement, the violent threats are cringe. I hope fatshark didn't do this without proper knowledge though and like you say, we will see changes soon.
I’m with you on this, the shuffle really annoys me as a lugger main but I also don’t really notice much difference and am experimenting with pure left tree build vs a lugger with the 3 point dip for the get stuck In and bruiser package. I also primarily use the shock maul (my precious) and the pacemaker node can end up helping with my reloads when I’m swinging in a horde so that probably is helping to ease the pain a bit. overall I’m not really noticing much difference but I would still much rather have preferred for this change to not have happened.
I’d be down with an Ogryn rework. Personally, I’d absolutely love to have a Slayer-like punching build for Ogryn where he pushes, smacks, throws…etc his was thru hordes. This would be a larger change, but I’d welcome it gladly. Even just a new “spiked gloves” weapon or something.
I wonder if it would be worth thinking of just adding the ogryn shield as a blitz. Instead of box o hurt, replace it with a slab shield ability. You take it out and use it as normal. But lose your grenade slot. And it can apply to almost any weapon. (Apart from the two handed one, but even then. Just add some knuckles) remove the shield plant, instead make it a power up of your right weapon. (Or if fists an uppercut, if cleaver a down to up slice.) This would: remove the dependency on one weapon on ogryn. help with the tankiness issue with other weapons. And make sense about his class. After all, he IS the slab. Maybe even let you use it on ranged weapons, with the caveat you can’t move as much. So you can mow things down, and not get knocked around by bosses with your ranged (bc ogryn is slow and relies on blocking, or eliminating enemies for safety) or get gunned down by gunners the second you turn a corner. But you can’t get out of the way of mutants or trappers, unless you switch. and then you have to set up again. I like the idea of ogryn being a lil slow or clunky. He’s 1000kg of mass, at a minimum. It kinda makes sense. But he should also FEEL like 1000kg of mass I should also note, ogryn shouldn’t be disabled by a single hound. A single hound should be able to constantly harass him, maybe stick to his back where he can’t reach or inflict a slow. but I do not think it should immediately disable the walking brick wall. Idk what to do with this. But it would almost surely break the game as is. Note: I am biased. And these changes could very well break the game. Skewing ogryns to be the strongest (lore accurate) However: if balanced, it could add variety to ogryn never seen before. Power maul and shield? Shovel and shield? Cleaver and shield? And the brute maul and shield? Gorgeous. Though I have one final note to balance it; when the shield comes out. You slow down and your attacks are slower, but more strike down oriented. Making you a good turtle. Sorry about the small novel, I got the game bc of ogryn. And was sad that zealot is now my go to class. Idc if ogryn is OP for a bit. He deserves the extra rashuns.
Playing Ogryn is kind of a punishment. I only do it to get the credits for Melk's shop. You move fatly, slowly and your guns shoot fatly, slowly. The only fun is to bull rush and do melee crits, but even then it's nothing compared to the fun I could be having with any other class. Why nerf the already least fun character?
Not suprised if a rework for Ogryn is coming. I was thinking, mainly hoping, that a rework would come eventually. What ticked me off, and I imagine everyone else, is that this was after constant Ogryn nerfs. The past 5 updates and patches have been bangers for the entire game in general. But, the small caveat was that Ogryn kept getting (melee) nerfs with each update. They would even slowly buff gunlugger as they nerfed melee-centric Ogryn with each new patch. I understand 1 shotting 4 crushers with one attack was overboard. But, they just never stopped nerfing Ogryn over and over again. He's still strong, and has easy potential to one shot crushers with the pickaxe and foldable shovel, but man, they need to stop slappibg him around at some point
@eyeofrage7025 lol nice joke, but idk if they all do. I doubt it, but it wouldn't be a shocker if that was in any way true. Like, JTC says, part of it could be FS not listening to everything the testers are informing them about. Or, they are nitpicking what and who to take notice of. Plus, I doubt FS is gonna let the testers know what they are planning or have in the works as it seems playtesters are not employees. Hence, the NDAs. Also, the Darktide community is small and niche. So, you have to keep in mind how close in contact these youtubers are, or can, be in their circle. Whether JTC, Reginald, or Tanner. They all make good points and put work into it, but have their own perspectives and biases. Or, they could the (seemingly) few darktide creators who farm views with "OP BUILDS" and "Roleplay as X build."
As someone who isn’t very good at games or understands most of the stacking of this or that buff, i love playing Ogryn for the joy his voice lines bring, the joy in slapping an enemy to death, the joy of having simple weapons and talents for a big simple boy who can only count to 4. I can understand why some players would not enjoy this, but for me, it's Ogryn all the way 😂
wait what was the time when they listened to 1 group more than the others on vermintide and it led to disastrous results? I'm curious I don't know the history of this.
Zealot Main here, as someone who loves to team with Oggies. You can’t nerf the Ogryn just either make the class strong in Melee or strong in Guns but you can’t make them a healing tank which would be dope.
Weird like you said to push out a couple small updates now with it changing more later, just wait til later, or take your feedback on shuffling nodes quickly at the end. Ogryn should have the potential to solo just like any other class. I play Ogryn because he's fun and I like his character, but if I'm being optimal try hard its veteran shout/bolter everyday. Its a night and day difference in difficulty. Ogryn needs some built in range mitigation from gunners outside of relics, and more useful nodes within reach of each other no matter what path you choose, at least to start. Many close range/big characters in games do a "Melee only damage mitigation passive", he needs that too.
What you said does make sense, because when people complained about the Ogryn talent tree changes on Reddit. I made a post stating "The Talent tree is the least of Ogryn's 'problems' " where i through pure logic and rationality without any use of bad language nor anything like that. But the mods of the r/Darktide took down my post, and i always wondered why? I didn't care to ask, since my experience with reddit mods are that they rarely respond, nor care, and when they respond they answer a question that never was made. But this would make sense. For starters, they probably wanted to "tone down" the Ogryn complaints on the forum. But also probably because there's likely a change to the Ogryn coming up in a couple of months?
I for one am extremely excited for an OGRYN overhaul. The weapons are so unique and bad ass but the skills just aren’t there supporting them. Fatshark nailed the “big bonk” but where’s my “big boom” 🥺 As a side note I’m so glad to see someone else running the cleaver, my character’s name is “Machete” and looks like Danny Trejo so I exclusively run the cleaver 😂
We waited forever for crafting and talents to finally be added and now if you're an ogryn you have to wait even longer for the class to feel as strong as the others, still waiting for meaningful story content also. I wonder how much of the playerbase will be left once the game is finally in the state many of us hoped it would have been in at the launch.
I've not played since the Havoc patch yet, but any Nerf to Kickback is 100% justified. A lot of talk have been that plasma is op, but plasma is nothing compared to Kickback. Gunlugger kickback is by far the most overpowered build in the game and have been since they buffed the kickback. Ogryn is just kinda underplayed, so it's not that noticeable. But Gunlugger Kickback steamrolls EVERY other build in the game in terms of damage done, and it's not even close.
I've been running kickback gunlugger with Feel No Pain for like a year and the damage is absolutely disgusting. Yet I never really see it run by others or it being discussed as meta.
Side note (not oggy related): Whilst I deeply appreciate the effort and work that all DT content creators make. I feel that all of them either are unconsciously bias towards supporting FS decision making, or are restricted in being able to openly criticise game decisions. I must admit, i was rather put off within the first 30 seconds of the video and your choice of language when you instructed people not to be vocally critical of FS for poor design choices implemented for DT. I adore DT's gameplay loop, sunk too many hours into it. But oggy is my favourite - and also least played character, primarily due its restrictive build styles. As much as Havoc has added something new and more challenging to the game - its in an extremely contrived manner. The penances, the recoloured cosmetics/frames, twitch drops, the time-gating to maximise engagement...they all just seem half baked and with the goal of artificially inflating players time spent with the game. Once a game is out for 2+ years do we auto give devs a "pass" for everything? Or am I just a cynical, old gamer who can see the absolute endless potential of Darktide being missed so often? For real though - your content rules. You and Ryken are my favourites. (Although i dunno which of you has signed more NDAs? 🤔) Your video on the new weapons and movesets in the Grim Protocol update was chefs kiss 👌
I'm sorry, but how did you interpreted jtc's instructions not to INSULT or THREATEN people as an instruction to not be vocally critical? Are you alright? Did you not listen properly? If one can't provide a critique without insults or threats, one shouldn't open their mouth until one learned to be a civil human being
There is a stark difference between criticizing and insulting. You can criticize someone/something without insulting them or being nasty about it, its all in how you present it to the other party. As a content creator with an audience, I have a certain level of reach that not many people have. With that level of power (no matter how small or large it may be perceived by myself or others), Its my responsibility to be careful in how i wield that power. Whatever gets uploaded to this channel or gets said on my livestreams has the potential to have a lasting impact, and Its my job to use that influence correctly. I frequently criticize fatshark publicly and behind closed doors - I just do it in a way that is respectful of them and the effort they put into their work. I also understand that the people who are usually catching the criticism are community managers, who are not only just the messengers of that feedback to the people that actually need to hear it, but are actual living people with thoughts, feeling and emotions. I purposefully deliver my criticism with a certain level of poise and understanding to be respectful of the time they have spent on their work, and to ensure that they will actually listen to me in the first place.
Wow. I honestly didn’t notice the change when I got back to Darktide after a 11 month hiatus. But now that I think about it, makes sense why Ogryn just doesn’t feel as good compared to some other classes, even though Ogryn has the biggest weapons in the game. Kinda stupid on Fatshark to make Ogryn the weakest class.
Look, I know you said not to insult fatshark, and I'm not going to to their faces or go harass anybody But I WILL tell my buddies I think fatshark are kiiiinda dumb sometimes.
I really don't care about this changes but apart from 1 that really bothers me is that big boom and 25% more ammo are in this same line so you must pick one or another or just spend 2 point... They should have place them after one another or some places where it makes more sense to pick both of them. Oh and matchmaking in having sucks.
Even before these patches, Ogren was still my least favorite class to play. It doesn’t really suit my place style, but I do feel bad for anyone who likes playing Ogren.
For me i feel like the main issue is Ogryn is such a unique class, unique model, unique weapons. they cant do what they did for the dueling sword with Ogryn, they cant just bandaid fix his kit with another classes weapon like how every other class can. Every other class has so many builds that dont just fall down to Range Or Melee like with ogryn. ogryn has always been the least loved child of the classes in my opinion, from day 1 ogryn had a fraction of the content of any other class even before the skill tree updates less customization of your character less weapons less builds less developer care less less less Ogryn needs a whole update cuz his original gimmick is protecting the team but everyone else can do that so much better, would you rather have a Book Zealot, Yell Vet and shield Psyker, or an ogryn whos running a heavy build? i doubt youd want the ogryn
I played Ogryn until the update i dont now i loved the rumbler with Indomitable going down the heavy hitter side, so going heavy hitter makes rumbler and granade gauntlet less fun to play with.
I play all 4 classes at least to get the coinage for weapon purchases with the weekly. I was a bit annoyed with this "rework" as it forces you down defined paths and doesn't allow for creating a complementary playstyle.
As a fotware developer I have a quite different perspective. I don't think Fatshark are making good decisions overall. If you know something is bad for your service, then basic service design principles and philosophy would suggest to not release unfinished features, faulty products or introduce unnecessary changes. No harm would have been caused if Fatshark were just being smart about it and make all the changes when they are ready, rather than in the current grading method we have now. It's bad service design plain and simple. I am not as convinced as you are that Fatshark has learnt from their mistakes, seeing them repeating them once more. I hold no ill will for the developers but professionally speaking they are mishandling their product and there is no two doubt about it.
My first character is a psyker, so i dont know what an ogrun can do, and how bad it is. But to me orgres should have 3 builds... heavygunner - Big greatsword/axe/hammer with dmg and range melee- shield/protector build. And just redo the whole skill tree, qhouldnt be that hard.
I want to say that all the other classes have great support abilities, but ogryn just falls so short of being a “team player.” That’s fine bc they are big goofballs, but we need big goofball damage, which feels very lacking late game. Idk maybe I’m just bad lol need more time on these guys.
Yeah I feel like my ogryn is so much weaker now I die constantly 😭 I get hit and my stats just disappear 🫠 and I'm constantly having to get team mates to revive me
So ive been playing DT on and off for months. Ogryns are simply my favorite. Big dumb but wholesome and loving dudes are simply spectacular. However I'm of the opinion that he is a poorly put together jack of all trades. Generally big boys can do it all but they fall short to the other 3 classes even if the other 3 are just dicking around. Veteran with the right set up can mow down dozens of specials and elites like nothing. And don't even need much of a setup to do it passibly. Big boys even dumping everything into them shootas can't keep up with the casual veteran dicking about. I know alot of this isnt new or ground breaking but its so very sad to see it keep being the case.
As an ogryn main myself, the changes were pretty minor and didnt effect any of my builds including my gunlugger build. I still solo monsters and carry lil'uns, all good in my opinion
tbf I think Ogryn has more build variety than Zealot. Sure, they only have a ranged/heavy attack builld but Zealot you just have the same builds on that class since a lot of their major/minor nodes are awful. Save for specific blitz and any of the dodge related perks.
This is now 4 patches in a row of straight nerfs. The worst class in the game by a far margin getting nerfed, 4 major update cycles in a row. I wish I knew the logic behind it but I think they just have no idea what they’re doing or what to do for the Ogryn.
As someone who mains Ogryn far far more than any other class, some of these people here and elsewhere are so completely lost in sauce. Sure, these changes are a bummer, but the way these spoiled brats behave like the game is utterly ruined is bonkers. I would almost go as far as to say lots of these manchilderen are use fake gamer outrage. Behave and stop acting like a fussy toddler who's not getting their way. It will be addressed. And most of all, harassing(/doxxing??) a playtester because "supposedly" they didn't mention it to Fatshark is incredibly awful. Please go outside, call your mom and talk to other people about your pent up emotions. Damm.
Calling this an Ogryn nerf is a stretch. It's more like a kickback nerf which honestly doesn't change how you play at all and barely affects his effectiveness. Ogryn doesn't top damage stats but he is the best support class and makes runs easier. This change is a nothingburger.
@@LagSammiches a) 15% is a sizeable amount and b) Ogryn is the indisputably weakest class, most of his weapons are bad or weak, the way his talent tree is laid out is overly constrictive and a lot of his talents in the tree are bad or unimpressive. With all this in mind, Fatshark decision to not only fail to solve any Ogryn's outstanding issues but to nerf him is why people are annoyed
@@t.f.9 pp calling ogryn the best support class, while - shout, survivalist, focus target, chorus, beacon of purity, bubble, smite, psykinetics aura and seers presence exist - has to be the wildest statement in a long time.
I think insults are fine. I disagree with you there. Most people will take criticism as insults anyways. You’re probably just saying that as some disclaimer protecting you from getting cancelled in the future. But I think this needed to be said.
Ogryn: The Fatshark are not using the big thinking.
Big thinkin iz for da bois onlee.
Gave everyone dueling swords, making them solo-able, but keep nerfing ogryn, the least solo-able class. Thought they were going to fix their useless tree. Instead, they moved around nodes, making ogryn's 1 of 2 build paths weaker lol. I was mad when they nerfed kickbacks reload awhile back, too. I dont get fatshark
"our reports show that ogryn is the least played class. what should we do?"
"make it worse :) "
Yeah their balance philosophy is all over the place.
They're obviously keeping stuff like VoC as it is because of Havoc.. but then do these weird "who asked for this" nerfs on the least played class who suffers the most on the dumb shooter buffs. What..are..they..doing..
If they want coherency to matter it needs to continue working while enemies are near.
That would actually be a good buff to Ogyrn. His toughness passively builds while allies are near. Supposedly that's his role, protecting his allies.
Currently his coherency ends first as his "melee range" is bigger because of his larger hitbox.
not quite how coherency toughness regen works, only gets disabled when an enemy is actively attacking you in melee. Which is why toughness regen speed on curios is really good
@@johnhargis99 but at the same time it's not as it stops on the Winde up rather then the attack making it feel worse then you make it seem
@@johnhargis99coherency toughness regen turns off as soon as an enemy enters one of your melee "slots", this can be before it even winds up an attack. This means you will not be regenrating toughness from coherency when you need it most - in the thick of battle. Toughness coherency regen is among the worst stats in the game and you should avoid it on curios and not go out of your way to get talents for it. You will be getting much more toughness back from just fighting and killing enemies.
I'm not having a go at you to be clear, Fatshark really needs to clarify their tooltips so people know what effects the different stats have.
@@t.f.9 yeah im not reading all that, i know how the slot system works, i know how coherency regen works, i know how toughness regen speed works on curios, and finally i know that it is basically the best option to have on curios👍
@@johnhargis99 bro is wrong with so much smug confidence, wild
Feel no pain, feels useless
Feel no(thing but) pain
It is, now
I wouldn’t go that far but it’s nothing more than a basic defense buff. The Ogryn has no real keystones.
@@J.B.1982 the problem is that you can tank more efficiently with the other two keystones, people say that you just turn your brain off with feel no pain but are you really doing much with the other two? Like for example with gun ogryn you can tank far better than feel no pain and all your doing is shooting and using brace. I don’t think feel no pain is unusable but just far worse than the other two keystones.
@@mota7455
That’s a fair assessment. I notice for me, I can chill out a little more with Feel No Pain. That’s the reason I like Ogryn, I can be less twitchy. But I’m not saying it’s good. Lol
Burst Limiter is the most useless for me.
It's insane to me that there are people out there saying it's a buff to non-gunlugger builds.
They think the increased toughness regen from coherency is somehow better than 15% on consecutive shots from Kickback (The arguably best non-gunlugger ranged weapon for Ogryn.)
Coherency toughness regen really should get reworked, that would instantly buff like half the worthless nodes in skill trees because for some reason there are a lot of those.
Literally just make it never stop regenerating while in coherency, always a constant small regen even if there are enemies near you. Hell if that somehow makes the game too easy just change the numbers later, but with how slow it is compared to other sources I don't think it'd be broken.
@@denodagor exactly what I've been saying for a while
@@denodagor They should just combine Lynchpin and Towering Presence and put Reloaded and Ready back where it was. Then they free up a slot to add coherency always active in combat somewhere on tree.
As a main ogryn i'm pissed... I feel the problem is maybe with the ogryn testers they maybe dont represent the casual ogryn player.... If you want to kill bosses quick you only have 2 choices... Left tree side with the axe or right side with burn... Ogryn is already the least played class and with this stupid decisions there will be less and less ogryns...
Yea some of the testers are the people who made the ogrynnomicon which I found useful as a new player. Then I realized only the weapon part of the entire book were useful. Everything else is completely dogshit especially when it praised useless curio perks. Currently the 4% combat regen should be in the top spot but is rated low because Ogryns cooldowns are low. They also praised coherency and toughness regen perks/nodes which is completely useless when you actually looked into how the game functions. Tanner Lindberg showcases a model of how it worked and my goodness do they need to rework these things. The changes at the top tree makes a lot of sense when you look at the perspective of how they praise it for making an Ogryn more tanky. Every node up there is meant to regen or restore toughness and the reload damage node didn’t fit in with the theme.
Nearly every ogryn player is a casual ogryn player, yry hard players simply don't play ogryn because theirs no real reason to compared to all other classes
never put the blame on the testers wtf
I was an Ogryn main and I’m shifting to more Psyker now. Zealot too.
The new gun is boring as well but I get it. Snipe good
@@har7649 Tanner Lindberg is also a racist that wished for my death lmao, you cant really listen to anything he says man...
Am I the only person on this earth that thinks Psyker's talent needs some clean up. So many talents but not enough points... Couple nods should be combined in together to ease up choices. Basically, Psyker is having opposite issue of Ogryn; too much talent.
Also JTC please tell Fatshark to implement some of the mod features to the vanilla game so that console players can benefit them... As I see, almost everyone uses numerical UI, scoreboard, healthbars mods etc. If you are playtesting this game with those mods, then those mods should be a part of the game.
Absolutely, while Psyker is not ruined by this, I still feel every build needs 2-3 more talent points.
Psyker is weird in that all his blitzes are pretty useless if he takes a staff. You only have one peril bar and the staff is generally stronger. Psyker blitzes should be exclusively charge based not peril based.
I mean personally I don't think the healthbar mod should be used. That's information that you shouldn't really have access to in any way. That's more than a QoL fix, that's giving you perfect information you shouldn't have. Just my own two cents.
@@EvilTwinn Yeah it is 100% more than QoL but I do think it makes the game better overall. I started using it when I found out and it just feels so good seeing the healthbar get chunked when you hit with something strong. It activates my neurons and makes me big happy. While also being a more direct feedback of what works in an actual combat scenario vs what doesn't, because you are always sure you did that damage to the enemy instead of your teammate and how much you contributed or if the enemy was already damaged, etc... It's not only a net positive while you're using it, you're also learning the game faster.
They need to fix Psyker's terrible nodes before they even think about overhauling the tree. Penetration of the Soul (10% rending when above 75% peril) does nothing, it's a totally inert node, yet if you're trying to reach Warp Siphon it's still better to take it over Empyric Resolve (-40% peril generation, -30% toughness generation). That talent is so hilariously bad and counter-intuitive to how Psyker is supposed to be played that it is better to take the bugged talent that does LITERALLY NOTHING over it, and that's just two talents; I won't even get into how two of his three auras get overshadowed by Seer's Presence or the fact that Assail is made worse than Smite or Brain Burst not because it isn't as effective as a blitz, but because you can't get Psykinetic's Aura with it.
Me and jeficus had a 3 hour call talking about these issues the other day. Lost the recording. Going to be making another video on this and other topics, but you summed up most of the issues - Maybe how significant the issues are could be identified as more severe, it REALLY affects the solo/duo experience. It almost ruins the generalist build - and does make kickback much worse. Gonna make another vid on the topic, good vid jtc
Looking forward to the vid my man, they're always a treat.
@Paint_Skemo thanks pal should be this week, cogitator willing
Solo/duo experience = .1% of the playerbase.
ogryn should be able to push dogs off after 4-5 seconds
I thought about this as well... it makes sense for a 1000 pound monster to be able to push off a tiny dog or even resist an electric net. Maybe make it a node of the feel no pain cluster?
@@willb1405 i like this they gotta lean into the fantasy i dont even play ogryn i just like the idea of tanks doing more
It would be interesting to take a net or dog that is about to be disable another player knowing you'll be up in a little bit
Might cause issues of Ogryns standing in front of shooting humans when they don't need to be
But a cool passive idea nonetheless
@@jesunghwang1585 the value you would get from taking a dog on purpose to save a teammate will always be outweighed by killing the dog so i dont see that as a valuable tactic although it might happen for shits and giggles yes. ogryns could just really use the extra benefits cause they have too many downsides compared to the other classes
Looks like we'll have to move the Ogrynomicon to that point-ear-clowns-guarded library since it's almost heretical by now
Funny thing to see when fatshark approve feral nerfs on already not so good doing class on behalf of some malice average playtesters. I guess they forgot that dmg numbers are different in higher difficulty levels.
@Hopehope19ru I'm all for giving the Ogryn more options but to say the class isn't doing fine is wrong. Ogryn is the best support class in the game and makes runs easier for everyone around them.
@@streven1331 What do you mean by support? Vet gives more utility through survivalist, more stagger through shout and more tankiness through shout, while also having more mobility and dealing more damage.
@t.f.9 they can do clutch pickups and have constant, on demand crowd control against hard to stagger targets without needing to wait for an ability cooldown to do either thing. They can also aggro pretty much every enemy in the game if they want to. They're the best damn bodyguard a vet could ask for.
The things about ogryns that make them so valuable are mostly built into them at base level and aren't as obvious to people just looking at the skill trees.
Yes, voice of command is the most broken thing in the game. That to me is an outlier and should have been adjusted along time ago but that ship has sailed.
that's just kind of wrong
What does Ogryn provide to the team? In best case scenario it's loyal protector damage buff on taunted enemies or staggering enemies with charge, gun-lugger is nothing but a parasite on the team.
Ogryns can barely deal with gunners, they do okay against elites, but they hardly provide any utility to the team. Zealots will outkill Ogryns in every way and also chorus is the best support ability in the game, Veterans bring shout, survivalist, infinite grenades to crowd control better than any ogryn could.
And then there is psyker, who gives everyone cooldown reduction, deletes hordes with all staffs, deletes everything but crushers with 90% of the staffs, has third best support ability in bubble shield.
Idk, Ogryn is just lacking, given the same resources to all classes, ogryns will usually come out at the bottom, and sadly with how the game is balanced right now, doing damage is the best contribution you can give to the team. If it was VT2 where you could have a class like ironbreaker just be the tank, because he gives constant buffs to everyone around him, then it could work. But the only buff that Ogryn can provide is the 20% damage increase from loyal protector, and even then it's arguable how effective that is since it takes away opportunities from your zealots and vets to proc their on dodge talents (dueling and reciprocity respectively) on top of whatever weapon blessings they may have.
So in short, yeah Ogryn is just lagging behind everyone, as every other class can do what ogryn does but better
@@streven1331 Ogryn is the most selfish class, with no ability to boost allies' toughness. Calling it the best support class is just plain untrue. I see what you mean, but relic can achieve the same clutch pickup in 90% cases
To be frank i was expecting more accessibility with the nodes which every other class did have in the past to help with build variety, not a switch of some talents in weird places leading to a straight up nerf.
So frustrating. They need to make him move and slide faster. While he should be slower than other classes he shouldn't be as slow as he is. And please for the luv of the Emprah, allow him to jump over a rail. On the higher difficulties that can kill him faster than a barrel!
If only ogryn had more weapons to compliment his tank tree like a brute shield with chain sword, dual power fists, or a big ol claymore
ogryn is by far the weakest class. which is a shame because im an ogryn main. they just seem to hate ogryn for no reason
They should remake the whole skill tree honestly....
@@bakuya99 they are :)
I agree. We need interesting choices and a proper role in a team. Ogryns need to excel at something and not be overshadowed by all other classes in every single meaningful category (damage output, survivability, team support etc.).
I think they just need a straight up damage buff on most of their weapons.
@@Zectifin Nah. That will not create interesting gameplay. The weapons are fun and diverse but we lack numbers and we lack interesting build options.
@@Zectifin you cannot build anything interesting in the Ogryn tree at all. Ogryn has the least amount of weapons by far and they only have a terrible tech with the least amount of creative builds you can do. If anything overhauling to look like the veteran tech tree would be a good start.
I don't like the ogryn changes. Nice video.
Reginald!
They cant figure out how to fix the god awful performance on console but they can find time to nerf the least played class.
@@infrared6973 haven’t been able to play a match for over 5 minutes before being disconnected since the update
It’s actually mind boggling. They can release a whole ass new game mode but can’t seem to get around to console performance lmao
@ I love disconnecting in havoc mode its really fun
@@infrared6973 As a PC player playing since 2023 I can only say: Hang in there dudes it will get better
@@infrared6973 they've also completely screwed up the audio, it stutters so bad now.
TLDR: FS is potentially working on an ogryn reworked skill tree and this latest change was made with in mind.
yeahhhh... but in that case should release this THEN and not NOW.
@@jafsrob haven't we learned enough about releasing half-baked things with the release of Darktide already? Let them cook. And also let them know we're not happy, just in case they did make a mistake
Honestly, it feels like an oversight and disconnect of how FS sees people playing Ogryn. The changes to the skill tree make sense in a vacuum, all the gunlugger talents are now close to each other and readily available on that side of the tree but the nuances of how each talent is used was disregarded. I feel like the current skill tree system, for all classes, is weirdly restrictive of what talents you can use and may cause FS some problems later down the line if they want to introduce new classes or subclasses.
The Ogryn is the only class I have yet to max out and gear up, as it never felt right for me to play. Based on my limited experience, this class lacks its own unique mechanics or play style; it felt more like I could play it similarly to the Veteran or Zealot. The only distinguishing factor for me was the similar types of equipment. I've been waiting for FatShark to rework the class for a while, but I forgot. My desire to play Ogryn as a crowd-control tank doesn't work well. I hope to enjoy it more once I unlock the full class tree.
Ogryn feels like playing an entirely different game compared to the rest. Big, slow, comparatively poor ranged with great damage, reliance on heavy attacks for a lot of melee. I literally leveled sharpshooter twice before I finished leveling Ogryn. He does have some wild attack range, and the slab shield makes for some interesting plays. Buuut the zealot 2H power sword is so good I don't really want to play ogryn again anytime soon.
yeah as a psyker main ogryn feels so incredibly weird in comparison to any other class. for a while after the game came out i genuinely considered ogryn a meme class because it was so weird and different from anything else in the game.
now that ive actually played ogryn i question the value of like half of the class’s kit. what’s the point of the slab shield when shout and relic exist? why do literally any other kind of melee build that isn’t just strictly heavy attacks, and then why even pick ogryn for it? this class feels insanely poorly balanced right now imo.
i know some people really want more ogryn weapons but i think the class has bigger issues than a lack of weapons
Very confusing changes indeed. Harassing playtesters over a mistake is unacceptable, but what if it was actually a case where the playtesters are insular low-skill players passing off incredibly bad takes as serious balance changes with no intention of engaging with criticism or playing higher difficulties, while simultaneously bullying other playtesters and mocking the community for not understanding their genius? If and only if that is the case, THEN can we name and shame them? Surely you can concede that, right? I mean surely the odds of that being true are low enough that you'd feel safe cosigning that, if not in practice then at least in principal?
Make Ogryn Fun Again
Oh, influencers are not providing playtesting out of goodness; they are doing it to get early access to bolster their channels with content-that is money. Fatshark is obviously using the wrong criteria selecting and listening to testers, which explains a lot about this game's erratic development.
not all testers are content creators fyi
This isn't an oops moment we are at back to back nerfs over months of time with people voicing displeasure over the constant small or major nerfs to ogryn when very overpowered stuff still doesn't get touched.
Me watching a vet zeal or Psyker two shot a crusher with the duelling sword before I can charge up a single heavy: 😮
Ogryn seems sort of perpetually doomed to be paid no attention. They can't share models or weapons with any other class, all content has to be specifically built and can only be used by Ogryns. They have far fewer weapons than any of the other classes, which is reflected in their builds, which can only cater one of two generic playstyles, both of which are done better by other classes. People don't play Ogryn because of the inherent lack of variety, so Fatshark pays Ogryns less attention, which means fewer people play Ogryn.
No wonder they've waited this long to receive a single new gun. TIme spent creating content for Ogryns is time that could be spent creating content for the other 90% of the playerbase who are playing a better class. It's honestly really depressing, because I'd put money on the table that the Ogryn contributed to selling the game far more than any of the other classes just by sheer character alone.
Can confirm. I only bought darktide to play the big man, because that archetype is my shit.
I can still make him work in Havoc - but only with the slab shield, which trivializes 90% of the game anyway.
Zealot's too strong? Nerf ogryn. Buff zealot. Psyker's too strong? Nerf ogryn. Nerf psyker, then undo the nerf, and then nerf ogryn again.
Delete Towering Presence, useless talent. Put something useful there, like a talent that reduces ranged damage taken for example, getting shredded less by shooters is always nice.
Overall Ogryn needs a big update to replace, rework or buff the bad talents. Add more build variety to Ogryn as well by adding more talents.
I don't know if non-Ogryn players know this, but towering presence also increases the range at which you are effected by other player's auras. It keeps the party "linked" to you and is really, really good.
@@Sceptis Who doesn't know this? The problem with coherency is that the regeneration stops when you're within 8m of an enemy. No one cares about the auras apart from survivalist and benediction.
@@Sceptis
Auras don't matter apart from like 4 of them, Survivalist, Benediction and both Psykers CDR Auras. The rest are weak and barely matter.
The Coherency regen mechanic is entirely useless since a single enemy filling a melee slot disables regen.
@@troller9838 With the new placement of towering presence, it's a one point investment for a small support boon and some peace of mind. You're right: most auras are not game-breaking additions and cohesion is far from a perfect mechanic. That said, I personally like having 15% toughness DR from a Zealot or ammo/grenade recovery from the Vet granted from greater distances. Some Auras synergize really well with my build. The fact that it _can_ help toughness regen is nice too.
I'd rather have them rework toughness and coherence mechanics.
I'm a simple Ogryn player I'd love it if:
- The humble rock could stun a monstrosity like it once did
- Slab shield could smack Crushers out of their strike like it once was able to
- be able to get out of trappers nets and plague hounds with quicktime prompts ;p
I can't believe Hank got doxxed over this
Hank tuah, dox on that thang!
WALTUH
@@MrVictor1227 That's my ogryn's name! (He looks like Walter and cooks skaven with his knife)
no way
@@user-hu7lw4le1k Hank is a tool and a decent Ogryn and RPer, but Doxxing, really? Legit it really happened? Lame
The biggest problem I have with Ogryn is that they don't really have a proper role in a team. They look like tanks but their damage reduction is not better and their toughness regeneration is even worse then other classes. Besides a little taunt they have no options to protect other players and their giant hit box lets them be the biggest and easiest target in the room. We are way worse in bullet dodging while sprinting and other defense options are also pretty much out of the window.
Zealot can do more melee damage then us and Veteran can do better range damage then us (and more consistent). This is topped by a skill tree that is just boring to level. When I look at Veteran skill tree for example - there are so many interesting choices that actually change the way the class feels and plays significantly. I get jealous.
But for Ogryn it's just: "Here have a bit more melee damage" or "Your attacks regenerate a bit more toughness then usual"... wooo.. all the excitement.
veteran having better damage reduction than ogryn is beyond fucked imo. also yeah when veteran has nodes like field improv and the double grenade and grenade regen ones, zealot has thy wrath be swift and until death, psyker has…psyker shit and ogryn has shit like the node for hitting Exactly One Dude with a heavy attack, like…what the fuck lmfao
@@epsilon1572 exactly. It is like they ran out of ideas.
So they added a skill point tax to the least played / weakest class, they buffed gunners, which are the Achilles heel of ogryns. This is my least played class and when I was respecing skills it was really annoying to not be able to move across tracks, like all of the other classes, like why though?
they are slowly removing the orgyn and replacing with tech priest
@@JaythyJazz as long as it comes with minions
Been playing Ogryn and having a blast. The builds are weird though and don't real feel helpful class for the team. The charged heavy build is very fun but one of the best talents is for full charged heavy's which is something you usually should not go for. I feel they should just rework his entire tree and reshuffle stuff around and change talents. Give his grenades modifiers also, such as giving big friendly rock a rebar modifier for armor enemies or faster cooldown, or have the box of grenades have different nades inside of the box, such as smokes or fire. There is a lot of fun potential to be had but the trees are two restricting for that fun.
I like a lot of the changes to Darktide that were finally implemented. But the Ogryn has always been an afterthought character that is constantly overlooked. For the size of an Ogryn they should be dealing crazy melee damage but they are weak in melee unless you use heavy attacks and like knocking enemies down, only to have them stand up again and again. It makes zero sense. Ogryn should be slow, but should also be powerful enough to one shot packs of chaff enemies and do serious damage to monstrosities. He should be able to tank a lot more melee damage, especially from weak chaff enemies as well as being able to snap the neck of hounds and throw them off. If some basic things like this were implemented, a lot more people would play him,
Ogryn shouldn't be slow. He should be by far the fastest class at a sprint. Canonically they can run as fast as (or even faster than) an Astartes who is not wearing their power armour, and these big tall guys with massive legs should be covering more distance per step than the baseline humans.
@@sulphuric_glue4468 I don't mean slow to cover the map, but as slow moving in combat as they are. Due to their massive size, should be doing a lot more damage and be able to tank a lot more than they do. I agree that due to their height, they should be able to lope along at a good pace along with the rest of the team.
caveat on reloaded and ready: the bonus damage only applies to the projectile for rumbler and NOT the explosion, which is obviously the best part and meant I would not take that talent on a strictly rumbler build
"It got nerfed because pinky promise they're maybe potentially kinda possibly gonna make the not bad in 6 months"
What
are you okay
Make it good now. Make it good in 8 months. Why does it need to be unbearably bad for months on end? How is it SO HARD for developers to get this right???? If the obvious outcome of the "temporary" change is that its terrible, why not buff the hell out of those bad nodes and then revert them when you're overhauling the whole tree anyway? "Hey, we've moved these nodes. We are aware that this fundamentally changes some builds. As a temporary measure until we overhaul the tree to give Ogryn deeper viablity and playstyle freedom, we are tripling their effect".
"no one should insult Fatshark"
you misinterpreting passionate outcry doesn't make spirited discussion suddenly "toxic" or "insult". A developer who looks at the state of Darktide and thinks "hmmm, better nerf Ogryn and give him tax nodes and entirely restrict the tree to literally just left, middle and right!" has no right to dismiss players being upset that a bad class is made nigh unviable.
Thats jtc for you. He gets featured in the launcher. That should say all you need to know about his priorities.
I mean you're taking a narrow view. Try looking at the all the changes made in the game and how they interact with the nerfs to the Ogryn.
Still using rumbler on HH bullrush build but man it really feels weak... wish they'd buff the ammo at least
Ogryn is the true tank class, he tanked all of fatsharks stupid nerfs so the other classes can run
This is such a nice vid, I have no idea what it's like to playtest but I do have an Idea of what its like to be an Ogryn main. While the talent shifts annoyed me they didnt send my builds into the unusable state many claim to now be in, which is just not true. But what bothered me was seeing the Ogryn community, us dumb slabs who call people "sah" and "small un" in chats with our stupid names, was seeing people in this community go and threaten violent acts upon devs and play testers over these changes. (Guarantee 90% of them don't main Ogryn cause most of the Ogryn mains I talk to barely noticed the changes.)
I am a strong believer they are bad changed, but I'm in agreement, the violent threats are cringe.
I hope fatshark didn't do this without proper knowledge though and like you say, we will see changes soon.
I’m with you on this, the shuffle really annoys me as a lugger main but I also don’t really notice much difference and am experimenting with pure left tree build vs a lugger with the 3 point dip for the get stuck In and bruiser package. I also primarily use the shock maul (my precious) and the pacemaker node can end up helping with my reloads when I’m swinging in a horde so that probably is helping to ease the pain a bit. overall I’m not really noticing much difference but I would still much rather have preferred for this change to not have happened.
I’d be down with an Ogryn rework. Personally, I’d absolutely love to have a Slayer-like punching build for Ogryn where he pushes, smacks, throws…etc his was thru hordes. This would be a larger change, but I’d welcome it gladly. Even just a new “spiked gloves” weapon or something.
I wonder if it would be worth thinking of just adding the ogryn shield as a blitz. Instead of box o hurt, replace it with a slab shield ability. You take it out and use it as normal. But lose your grenade slot. And it can apply to almost any weapon. (Apart from the two handed one, but even then. Just add some knuckles) remove the shield plant, instead make it a power up of your right weapon. (Or if fists an uppercut, if cleaver a down to up slice.)
This would: remove the dependency on one weapon on ogryn. help with the tankiness issue with other weapons. And make sense about his class. After all, he IS the slab.
Maybe even let you use it on ranged weapons, with the caveat you can’t move as much. So you can mow things down, and not get knocked around by bosses with your ranged (bc ogryn is slow and relies on blocking, or eliminating enemies for safety) or get gunned down by gunners the second you turn a corner. But you can’t get out of the way of mutants or trappers, unless you switch. and then you have to set up again. I like the idea of ogryn being a lil slow or clunky. He’s 1000kg of mass, at a minimum. It kinda makes sense. But he should also FEEL like 1000kg of mass
I should also note, ogryn shouldn’t be disabled by a single hound. A single hound should be able to constantly harass him, maybe stick to his back where he can’t reach or inflict a slow. but I do not think it should immediately disable the walking brick wall. Idk what to do with this. But it would almost surely break the game as is.
Note: I am biased. And these changes could very well break the game. Skewing ogryns to be the strongest (lore accurate)
However: if balanced, it could add variety to ogryn never seen before. Power maul and shield? Shovel and shield? Cleaver and shield? And the brute maul and shield? Gorgeous. Though I have one final note to balance it; when the shield comes out. You slow down and your attacks are slower, but more strike down oriented. Making you a good turtle.
Sorry about the small novel, I got the game bc of ogryn. And was sad that zealot is now my go to class. Idc if ogryn is OP for a bit. He deserves the extra rashuns.
Playing Ogryn is kind of a punishment. I only do it to get the credits for Melk's shop. You move fatly, slowly and your guns shoot fatly, slowly. The only fun is to bull rush and do melee crits, but even then it's nothing compared to the fun I could be having with any other class. Why nerf the already least fun character?
Not suprised if a rework for Ogryn is coming. I was thinking, mainly hoping, that a rework would come eventually. What ticked me off, and I imagine everyone else, is that this was after constant Ogryn nerfs.
The past 5 updates and patches have been bangers for the entire game in general. But, the small caveat was that Ogryn kept getting (melee) nerfs with each update. They would even slowly buff gunlugger as they nerfed melee-centric Ogryn with each new patch. I understand 1 shotting 4 crushers with one attack was overboard. But, they just never stopped nerfing Ogryn over and over again. He's still strong, and has easy potential to one shot crushers with the pickaxe and foldable shovel, but man, they need to stop slappibg him around at some point
playtesters who love heresy could be a problem
@eyeofrage7025 lol nice joke, but idk if they all do. I doubt it, but it wouldn't be a shocker if that was in any way true.
Like, JTC says, part of it could be FS not listening to everything the testers are informing them about. Or, they are nitpicking what and who to take notice of. Plus, I doubt FS is gonna let the testers know what they are planning or have in the works as it seems playtesters are not employees. Hence, the NDAs.
Also, the Darktide community is small and niche. So, you have to keep in mind how close in contact these youtubers are, or can, be in their circle. Whether JTC, Reginald, or Tanner. They all make good points and put work into it, but have their own perspectives and biases. Or, they could the (seemingly) few darktide creators who farm views with "OP BUILDS" and "Roleplay as X build."
As someone who isn’t very good at games or understands most of the stacking of this or that buff, i love playing Ogryn for the joy his voice lines bring, the joy in slapping an enemy to death, the joy of having simple weapons and talents for a big simple boy who can only count to 4. I can understand why some players would not enjoy this, but for me, it's Ogryn all the way 😂
wait what was the time when they listened to 1 group more than the others on vermintide and it led to disastrous results? I'm curious I don't know the history of this.
Unfortunately I cannot elaborate on that any further
Ogryn is just so hard in havoc. Always gets outclassed by zealots in every skill
honestly maybe this is a sign that ogryns tree needs a complete rework
i usually use my rumbler based ranged build so these changes work perfectly with that but with other builds it is quite the annoyance
Zealot Main here, as someone who loves to team with Oggies. You can’t nerf the Ogryn just either make the class strong in Melee or strong in Guns but you can’t make them a healing tank which would be dope.
Weird like you said to push out a couple small updates now with it changing more later, just wait til later, or take your feedback on shuffling nodes quickly at the end. Ogryn should have the potential to solo just like any other class. I play Ogryn because he's fun and I like his character, but if I'm being optimal try hard its veteran shout/bolter everyday. Its a night and day difference in difficulty.
Ogryn needs some built in range mitigation from gunners outside of relics, and more useful nodes within reach of each other no matter what path you choose, at least to start. Many close range/big characters in games do a "Melee only damage mitigation passive", he needs that too.
What you said does make sense, because when people complained about the Ogryn talent tree changes on Reddit.
I made a post stating "The Talent tree is the least of Ogryn's 'problems' " where i through pure logic and rationality without any use of bad language nor anything like that.
But the mods of the r/Darktide took down my post, and i always wondered why?
I didn't care to ask, since my experience with reddit mods are that they rarely respond, nor care, and when they respond they answer a question that never was made.
But this would make sense.
For starters, they probably wanted to "tone down" the Ogryn complaints on the forum.
But also probably because there's likely a change to the Ogryn coming up in a couple of months?
I for one am extremely excited for an OGRYN overhaul. The weapons are so unique and bad ass but the skills just aren’t there supporting them. Fatshark nailed the “big bonk” but where’s my “big boom” 🥺
As a side note I’m so glad to see someone else running the cleaver, my character’s name is “Machete” and looks like Danny Trejo so I exclusively run the cleaver 😂
Needs speed, more cleave n dmg distribution on all weapons, n a tree rework.
Some actual dr nodes that would help in havoc would be nice too.
I remember and miss when my bullrush/feel no pain bleed build was practically unkillable
Why not just put up public polls before every balance patch?? You're guaranteed to satisfy the majority of your players
We waited forever for crafting and talents to finally be added and now if you're an ogryn you have to wait even longer for the class to feel as strong as the others, still waiting for meaningful story content also. I wonder how much of the playerbase will be left once the game is finally in the state many of us hoped it would have been in at the launch.
The problem may be that the testers are better then the average player leading to more nerfs.
I did not know people rarely play Ogryn tank, its like my fav class and I always play it, did not realise a lot of people did not play it
I've not played since the Havoc patch yet, but any Nerf to Kickback is 100% justified. A lot of talk have been that plasma is op, but plasma is nothing compared to Kickback. Gunlugger kickback is by far the most overpowered build in the game and have been since they buffed the kickback. Ogryn is just kinda underplayed, so it's not that noticeable. But Gunlugger Kickback steamrolls EVERY other build in the game in terms of damage done, and it's not even close.
I've been running kickback gunlugger with Feel No Pain for like a year and the damage is absolutely disgusting. Yet I never really see it run by others or it being discussed as meta.
Side note (not oggy related): Whilst I deeply appreciate the effort and work that all DT content creators make.
I feel that all of them either are unconsciously bias towards supporting FS decision making, or are restricted in being able to openly criticise game decisions.
I must admit, i was rather put off within the first 30 seconds of the video and your choice of language when you instructed people not to be vocally critical of FS for poor design choices implemented for DT.
I adore DT's gameplay loop, sunk too many hours into it.
But oggy is my favourite - and also least played character, primarily due its restrictive build styles.
As much as Havoc has added something new and more challenging to the game - its in an extremely contrived manner.
The penances, the recoloured cosmetics/frames, twitch drops, the time-gating to maximise engagement...they all just seem half baked and with the goal of artificially inflating players time spent with the game.
Once a game is out for 2+ years do we auto give devs a "pass" for everything?
Or am I just a cynical, old gamer who can see the absolute endless potential of Darktide being missed so often?
For real though - your content rules. You and Ryken are my favourites. (Although i dunno which of you has signed more NDAs? 🤔)
Your video on the new weapons and movesets in the Grim Protocol update was chefs kiss 👌
I'm sorry, but how did you interpreted jtc's instructions not to INSULT or THREATEN people as an instruction to not be vocally critical? Are you alright? Did you not listen properly? If one can't provide a critique without insults or threats, one shouldn't open their mouth until one learned to be a civil human being
There is a stark difference between criticizing and insulting. You can criticize someone/something without insulting them or being nasty about it, its all in how you present it to the other party.
As a content creator with an audience, I have a certain level of reach that not many people have. With that level of power (no matter how small or large it may be perceived by myself or others), Its my responsibility to be careful in how i wield that power. Whatever gets uploaded to this channel or gets said on my livestreams has the potential to have a lasting impact, and Its my job to use that influence correctly.
I frequently criticize fatshark publicly and behind closed doors - I just do it in a way that is respectful of them and the effort they put into their work. I also understand that the people who are usually catching the criticism are community managers, who are not only just the messengers of that feedback to the people that actually need to hear it, but are actual living people with thoughts, feeling and emotions. I purposefully deliver my criticism with a certain level of poise and understanding to be respectful of the time they have spent on their work, and to ensure that they will actually listen to me in the first place.
Wow. I honestly didn’t notice the change when I got back to Darktide after a 11 month hiatus. But now that I think about it, makes sense why Ogryn just doesn’t feel as good compared to some other classes, even though Ogryn has the biggest weapons in the game. Kinda stupid on Fatshark to make Ogryn the weakest class.
I’m excited for the day when Ogryn just start goin ham on heretics, I can be patient for my tall stronk boi :>
Look, I know you said not to insult fatshark, and I'm not going to to their faces or go harass anybody
But I WILL tell my buddies I think fatshark are kiiiinda dumb sometimes.
I really don't care about this changes but apart from 1 that really bothers me is that big boom and 25% more ammo are in this same line so you must pick one or another or just spend 2 point... They should have place them after one another or some places where it makes more sense to pick both of them.
Oh and matchmaking in having sucks.
Common fartshart L
HEY is it just me or does anyone else always have their favorite class in games get stomped into being worse while already being clunky?
Even before these patches, Ogren was still my least favorite class to play. It doesn’t really suit my place style, but I do feel bad for anyone who likes playing Ogren.
For me i feel like the main issue is Ogryn is such a unique class, unique model, unique weapons. they cant do what they did for the dueling sword with Ogryn, they cant just bandaid fix his kit with another classes weapon like how every other class can. Every other class has so many builds that dont just fall down to Range Or Melee like with ogryn. ogryn has always been the least loved child of the classes in my opinion, from day 1 ogryn had a fraction of the content of any other class even before the skill tree updates
less customization of your character
less weapons
less builds
less developer care
less less less
Ogryn needs a whole update cuz his original gimmick is protecting the team but everyone else can do that so much better, would you rather have a Book Zealot, Yell Vet and shield Psyker, or an ogryn whos running a heavy build? i doubt youd want the ogryn
I'm dying for ripper claws for Ogryn
I played Ogryn until the update i dont now i loved the rumbler with Indomitable going down the heavy hitter side, so going heavy hitter makes rumbler and granade gauntlet less fun to play with.
the only thing i am sad about is error 2014 that's new for me since the latest update...
I play all 4 classes at least to get the coinage for weapon purchases with the weekly. I was a bit annoyed with this "rework" as it forces you down defined paths and doesn't allow for creating a complementary playstyle.
As a fotware developer I have a quite different perspective. I don't think Fatshark are making good decisions overall. If you know something is bad for your service, then basic service design principles and philosophy would suggest to not release unfinished features, faulty products or introduce unnecessary changes. No harm would have been caused if Fatshark were just being smart about it and make all the changes when they are ready, rather than in the current grading method we have now. It's bad service design plain and simple. I am not as convinced as you are that Fatshark has learnt from their mistakes, seeing them repeating them once more. I hold no ill will for the developers but professionally speaking they are mishandling their product and there is no two doubt about it.
Well have to wait 1 year for them to respond and buff...
My first character is a psyker, so i dont know what an ogrun can do, and how bad it is.
But to me orgres should have 3 builds... heavygunner - Big greatsword/axe/hammer with dmg and range melee- shield/protector build.
And just redo the whole skill tree, qhouldnt be that hard.
I want to say that all the other classes have great support abilities, but ogryn just falls so short of being a “team player.” That’s fine bc they are big goofballs, but we need big goofball damage, which feels very lacking late game. Idk maybe I’m just bad lol need more time on these guys.
Slab shield build is only build yesssirrrr
I dont feel like if a nerf in fact i made my build even better
fatshark not havibg proffesional play testers is the reason the gmae looks like it does
Thank you for your insight. I pray that you are right and Ogryn rework is coming
Eh I’ll still use feel no pain I am a stubborn bastard, and play tank. I vibe
Yeah I feel like my ogryn is so much weaker now I die constantly 😭 I get hit and my stats just disappear 🫠 and I'm constantly having to get team mates to revive me
are people really threatening fatshark over this...
They nerfed uz 'cos they wanta be uz, boss. 🪨
So ive been playing DT on and off for months. Ogryns are simply my favorite. Big dumb but wholesome and loving dudes are simply spectacular. However I'm of the opinion that he is a poorly put together jack of all trades. Generally big boys can do it all but they fall short to the other 3 classes even if the other 3 are just dicking around. Veteran with the right set up can mow down dozens of specials and elites like nothing. And don't even need much of a setup to do it passibly. Big boys even dumping everything into them shootas can't keep up with the casual veteran dicking about. I know alot of this isnt new or ground breaking but its so very sad to see it keep being the case.
thank u for making this, make ogryn great again big E
well i still gonna play ogryn =) lite ones need protecting afterall
Ogryn fun
As an ogryn main myself, the changes were pretty minor and didnt effect any of my builds including my gunlugger build. I still solo monsters and carry lil'uns, all good in my opinion
Same. I felt no appreciable difference - but like you, I prioritize being a "lynch-pin."
Same
Still servin da empera like nothin happened.
@@Sceptis its not substantially worse, buuuut...
why would you make it worse *at all* when what ogryn needs is buffs?
@@jafsrob Fair point.
tbf I think Ogryn has more build variety than Zealot. Sure, they only have a ranged/heavy attack builld but Zealot you just have the same builds on that class since a lot of their major/minor nodes are awful. Save for specific blitz and any of the dodge related perks.
lol, nice one
Fartshark (muhahahaha im so evil)
Hey thanks for a word from the herd... of playtesters! GG
This is now 4 patches in a row of straight nerfs. The worst class in the game by a far margin getting nerfed, 4 major update cycles in a row.
I wish I knew the logic behind it but I think they just have no idea what they’re doing or what to do for the Ogryn.
Just say fatshark doesn't know how to work with the ogryn and that he is in the tank hell just like tf2 heavy.
They're making ogryn less appealing to play, so devs have less pressure to make good, fresh content for them.
As someone who mains Ogryn far far more than any other class, some of these people here and elsewhere are so completely lost in sauce.
Sure, these changes are a bummer, but the way these spoiled brats behave like the game is utterly ruined is bonkers. I would almost go as far as to say lots of these manchilderen are use fake gamer outrage. Behave and stop acting like a fussy toddler who's not getting their way. It will be addressed.
And most of all, harassing(/doxxing??) a playtester because "supposedly" they didn't mention it to Fatshark is incredibly awful. Please go outside, call your mom and talk to other people about your pent up emotions.
Damm.
Was lunhc too sexy and big for the crew of the morningstar DO THE LIL UNS NOT UNDERSTAND MY DEEP AND COMPLEX PERSONALITIES OF BEING BIG AND SECY >:(
Calling this an Ogryn nerf is a stretch. It's more like a kickback nerf which honestly doesn't change how you play at all and barely affects his effectiveness.
Ogryn doesn't top damage stats but he is the best support class and makes runs easier.
This change is a nothingburger.
Couldn’t agree more. people are seriously whining about a whopping 15% damage, it’s insane what gamers have devolved into nowadays.
@@LagSammiches a) 15% is a sizeable amount and b) Ogryn is the indisputably weakest class, most of his weapons are bad or weak, the way his talent tree is laid out is overly constrictive and a lot of his talents in the tree are bad or unimpressive.
With all this in mind, Fatshark decision to not only fail to solve any Ogryn's outstanding issues but to nerf him is why people are annoyed
@@t.f.9 pp calling ogryn the best support class, while - shout, survivalist, focus target, chorus, beacon of purity, bubble, smite, psykinetics aura and seers presence exist - has to be the wildest statement in a long time.
a nerf to the strongest ranged option in the strongest playstyle is still a nerf
I think insults are fine. I disagree with you there. Most people will take criticism as insults anyways. You’re probably just saying that as some disclaimer protecting you from getting cancelled in the future. But I think this needed to be said.