Are These Marvel Characters too Un-PC to ever see in Marvel Legends?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 เม.ย. 2024
- Looking at some Marvel villains who keep popping up among those most wanted from Marvel Legends, but do they have a realistic chance of getting released?
And is Hasbro being too cautious with some figures they are making? This one might be a bit controversial, but let's chat it up in a respectful manner as always gang. - บันเทิง
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You pretty much nailed this topic. I think it is painfully obvious that most of us want these looks for these figures. The only thing I would add is that, as Hasbro continues to push on-line purchases of figures, we do need to see some of the more risque character designs being offered. It is an obvious example, but the first "problematic" figure I recall in the contemporary era was the DC Classics Cheetah. The more contemporary cheetah has a furry body which, when rendered in figure form, looked naked. At some point (I've heard it reported as a parent and also as an executive within Mattel) there was a complaint about the paint job and she was altered, resulting in some extremely rare figures with the original paint job out there. Ergo (Will Ferrell), since Hasbro has been more aggressively pursing virtual sales as a method of marketing, it occurs to me that this is the perfect medium for these figures. They won't be at retail and there will be minimal complaints. We could even get an entire problematic wave: Mandarin, Daimon Hellstrom, Howard the Duck, and zoftig versions of Emma Frost, Misty Knight, and Enchantress to form a M'Baku BAF! :)
Thanks Jon. I remember that Cheetah foolishness. That workout attire paintjob was very goofy!
I think that was why the Engine of Vengeance got so much heat (heh). That was the perfect outlet to get accurate versions of Mephisto, Goblin Queen and Hellstrom and Hasbro still went with sanitized versions of them. Hopefully they would make more use out of the Pulse avenue for "riskier" figures.
@@LylesFigureFiles The problem with the current hasbruh team is that they are wingeing types who are more worried about what they THINK someone might say instead of doing what their customers want. Because the hypothetical critics they're so worried about, are groups that don't buy comics, don't know these characters, don't buy and will never buy action figures. Also these assclowns contradict themselves left and right. No, they can't do a Cobra Commander hood because some idiot thinks it looks too much like what the kkk wear, but they put out an Arctic Storm Shadow.... who Wears a Hood! Then just recently they do the original Baron Zemo who has a hood that is exactly the shape of Cobra Commander's. WTF. They won't make female figs busty as they are in the comics (Emma Frost, Storm, Moondragon, Madame Hydra etc.) but then they put out Lady Loki, on the bustier model, how many times now? I saw it pegwarming in Target a while back. That thing is like $12.00 over on Amazon right now. Oh, they can't do a "devil" figure (Mephisto) but they had big ass Surtur over at Target. If that doesn't fit the typical "devil" then I don't know what does.
Even if their immature silly fears had any basis, they could put all this stuff over on Pulse and just collect money. Emma Frost, Moon Dragon, Mandarin, WWII baddies with swastikas on their outfits, etc. would all work there, Entertainment Earth, blah blah. Ridiculous. Man I hope hasblah loses this Marvel license, let someone with brains take it over.
The fact that M'Baku is in the cartoon invalidates the entire argument about a Mandarin figure being "offensive".
Has Mandarin been in anything? I struggle to sit through Avengers Assemble.
@@LylesFigureFiles I don't watch the cartoons, but I did see a clip recently of a cartoon with Iron Man fighting Mandarin and it looked like he had almost Caucasian skin color (not the green they gave him in some cartoons) although that might have been a lighting effect. I never understood why they gave him green skin in the first place though. Seemed odd.
@@LylesFigureFiles OH, and I just realized this. They already released Mandarin in a 2-pack with Iron Man years back, in one of his later costumes with the green skirt and yellowish flames at the bottom. He had his normal skin color then, not green. So I really don't see how this can be an issue. I just hope we get a classic version of him!
A classic comic Man Ape as a BAF, is the only way. Just call him M'Baku and get it over with. He is Black Panther's original nemesis. Hes an important character.
I wonder if just saying M'Baku would work?
Great video, and a fascinating topic. As a comic fan from the Silver Age, I understand the world was a very different place when the Marvel Universe was being created. How many villains from this age are from a Russian descent vs. how many heroes? Rhino, Abomination, Crimson Dynamo etc. Even in the Bronze Age there was stereotypes utilized - Banshee as a red-headed, pipe-token, beer-swilling Irishman - Luke Cage as a jive-talkin Shaft-wanna-be. My point being that the reference material available for ML to make action figures of are "comic book characters". They are fictional beyond imagination. Their creators sometimes exaggerate these stereotypes to magnify the characteristics of these players.
My pick for a blacklisted Marvel character has to be Mandarin due to the recent Iron Man retro wave. I believe the ML variant of the character will be the armored masked version ala Silver Samurai. Which one I WANT ML to produce is M'Baku. I love the animated variant better than the modern comic version.
Thank you, Jay!
It's definitely easier to lean into stereotypes for villains, which creates another problematic slope. You mentioned Banshee, but I loved that the new X-Men were from all over and that Colossus was a rare heroic Russian. And ironically, Banshee was one of my favorites. I'd love to get both of those guys if Hasbro can figure out a workaround to reflect some of their more interesting comic book designs.
Fun topic, Jeffrey! When it comes to a comic-based Mandarin figure, aside from the rings and the facial hair the one aspect that I really think is essential to his look is the color green. I know he's had cool looks with the red robes and the sort of futuristic feudal armor he wore during Acts of Vengeance, but I've always preferred his green and gold robes. I think the color green is necessary as a contrast to Iron Man's vibrant red and gold scheme.
For Man-Ape, I've always thought they could re-use Beast's torso and arms if they wanted to. I think that's the base body that a lot of customizers have used in the past.
There are some women in Marvel Comics for whom cleavage is a distinguishing part of their look. That's the case for Emma Frost as well as Black Cat. And some females are bigger in the chest than others. Now, typically I don't care about these things. I'm not buying six inch action figures to be stimulated by the female body, so if some chests are smaller or some cleavage is absent, it doesn't usually bother me that much... with ONE exception. My girl Storm from the 2-pack with Thunderbird. Storm has always been depicted as full-chested. They don't have to be HUGE, but the Storm figure we got, her chest doesn't even look average for a Marvel Legends female; it looks like they actually reduced her cup size. And again, this shouldn't bother me, but this is the one case where I think this figure was ALMOST perfect, but they messed up something so obvious.
Great video, as always.
Thanks man! That's a great point about the green with Mandarin being that visual clash with Iron Man just like Green Goblin, Electro, Doc Ock, Lizard with Spider-Man.
That's funny. I did this video and didn't even think to look to see what customizers were doing!
Yeah, it can be a slippery slope on that, but those three examples you mentioned are dead on. There were some characters different artists just want full on voluptuous for regardless if it mattered or was true to the character. I definitely don't want IG supermodel variant Sue.
Personally I think it's never wrong to want a representation of a character to look like the character. Whether it be the hair, eye, and skin color to their clothes and facial features. Though toning down any offensive features is definitely a good idea as long as their still recognizable.With that being said the first appearance of the mandarin should probably get a big redesign if they ever try to make a toy of it.
I’m so glad you did this video. I have the green robe version of the Toybiz Mandarin, and I’ve been wanting another for a while
I wonder which one is the most likely to get the thumbs up to get made?
I would hope they could at least do the green Vulcan 90s cartoon version
He would even go with the new retro cards
I think even then we'd see a toned-down goatee, but that seems like an ideal place for him.
Sucks cause I really want a deluxe comic M’Baku the costume looks sick af. And yes I’m talking about the full gorilla suit one. There are some customs of him that I’ve seen that are amazing. 🤷♂️
Now you've got me interested in seeing these customs!
I've seen some of those customs too. The most popular mold used is the Sasquatch/Wendigo body and it's perfect
@@genericyoutubechannel3790 that’s the one it’s without a doubt the best custom. 👍
I think as long as they don't go full on Fu Manchu, there are a lot of versions of Mandarin that could be done. Honestly, my biggest issue is that he's a Chinese character that they're constantly putting in Japanese inspired armors, when there's a lot of Chinese armored designs they could do. The 3.75 inch figure isn't bad.
I don't think they're ever doing a Man-Ape figure though, regardless of what they name him. Too much potential for misunderstanding there. Even true representation of an African tribal look can still be interpreted as a stereotype.
Thank you for that info! I had ZERO idea they were outfitting him in the wrong attire. Is the MU version accurate or wrong?
I think M'Baku seems soooo unlikely too.
People really need to stop feeding into this orgy of being offended over stupid things.
@@LylesFigureFiles The MU figure isn't too bad. It definitely seems like it borrows some samurai elements, but they also "chinesed" it up, so to speak. A number of comic designs seem to be straight up based on samurai armor, though, rather than traditional Chinese armor, and while there are some similarities between the two, they aren't the same. Specifically, the big forehead crests weren't really a thing on Chinese helmets. There are some other subtleties.
I was really wondering why they are all out avoiding doing him, even the later versions...I wondered if it was something to do with the name, Mandarin? It's kind of like calling a character English or Spanish, etc etc? It makes my brain hurt to think why something could possibly be offensive sometimes.
@@Banterbear It's woke insanity, quite literally.
For me, my first exposure to Mandarin is how he always pops in my head whenever I think of him or his name is mentioned. And that version is the one in sweet blue armor that he wore in the Sega Genesis port of the arcade game Captain America and the Avengers. I was a little 4 year old kid, and had no idea who he was or what his name was either. I called him that blue slidey guy, and I thought he was so cool because he could shoot fire blasts, freeze you in ice, and attack you with cloned duplicates of himself.
To this day I still love the character because of that initial exposure and all the fun memories of playing that game and reaching that boss battle.
That's cool! I'd love to play that game again. Side scrollers were always so fun!
And Mandarin's different power set per ring was so awesome and definitely made him a major threat to Iron Man!
@@LylesFigureFiles absolutely! That game was my introduction to superheroes in general!
I want Man-Ape and Mandarin, bad, but even I can confess to somewhat understanding Man-Ape's controversy. But to this day, I still don't understand how Mandarin is "offensive," I really don't.
The mustache/goatee combo for Mandarin is wrapped in bad stereotypes. It's a fine line.
@@LylesFigureFilesdon't the Chinese themselves also us the mustache goatee combo in their media though? I could be wrong or misremembering but I think those were legitimate styles they had in the past. Minis the teeth obviously
Hey my man . Finally finished the ML Squadron Supreme and I like em but hate Dr.Spectrum🤬 next topic, what figures need an instant Do over? Long awaited figures that missed the mark! Have a blessed day my brotha
Thanks man. I've added that to my list of topics, which I always appreciate!
Lots of great points!
One of the most frustrating elements of this is that as collectors, we want to have them all and we want to complete teams but there seems to be some teams that Hasbro has no intention in letting us finish. What good is it to have a classic Kazar if we can't have Shanna, or classic Star Lord without Gamora.
They love to do classic designs for characters and the males are fine (Hercules, Drax, Luke Cage) but then they go to modern looks for "sensitive" characters, especially women (Moondragon). So we rarely get to complete teams and when we do, their suits don't match with the same era.
I'm a white guy so that might dismiss my perspective for some people, but I don't see women or racial representation as attempts to be stereotypical so that we can mock and jest at their design. Sure, many of these designs were created by white dudes, but how they looked in the comic is how I want them to look on my shelf. That's who they were and how they looked. Embrace it. Use it as an opportunity to have discussions, don't just sweep it under the rug and act like they never existed.
But I don't really get offended. I get offended that companies and culture think we're too immature to be able to handle these kinds of discussions and so they decide to remove the possibility for us all together.
Thanks FM. I think as comic book fans our big "crime" is we just want the figures to look how they looked when we read or got into it. Clearly there's some looks that need to be tweaked, but there is a case of some of these looks being too sanitized.
For your example, I get constantly frustrated we can't get a classic looking Captain Boomerang. Is the outfit ridiculous? Sure, but that sensible logical modern design isn't nearly as fun.
Yeah, I was saying the same thing about them releasing Lady Mandarin. But I also noticed they didn’t exactly call her Lady Mandarin on package. She labeled as simply Psylocke. I was wondering if maybe they use his civilian name.
I wonder if that would be a decent workaround? Marvel Comics Wenwu?
@@LylesFigureFiles to be honest, I hate to say it, but I think maybe it’s safer to stick him a box set.
@@christophercrockett2972 box sets are an avenue as well as just making them Pulse exclusives.
Your concerns are valid, however (at least regarding The Mandarin) I spoke to Ryan Ting at Wondercon this year. It's more about the name than the appearance (note; Psylocke isn't called "Lady Mandarin" in the Wolverine 2 pack). I suggested "Just call him by his given name". Man-Ape on the other hand has the issue of both name AND appearance. They addressed the name by just referring to him by his given name. The suit is the issue here (the simian/black man offensive association). The other hurdle that makes this issue even more problematic is if they (Hasbro) attempt to "hedge" (ie; give us some version of said characters we don't want), collectors will complain (I believe you've been into this hobby long enough to know collectors want their characters in their most "iconic", well known or classic looks). This REALLY makes it difficult with M'Baku.
What you said about female figures is spot on as well. They "modified" the Rogue body because of it (and STILL use it sparingly) and why? So as to not offend those that are NOT the target demographic and the least interested in purchasing action figures at all! THIS is the power of cancel culture on full display.
M'Baku is definitely going to be the challenge!
If the name is the challenge for Mandarin, I'm not sure how many collectors would care if they called him Uncle Ben so long as we got him.
That Rogue body was a nice one. I think they need the Vulcan equivalent body for women that isn't so slender and has reasonable proportions.
Good topic and one that needs to be discussed and addressed respectfully. For me, as long as the depiction of someone does not include physical characteristics that have been exaggerated to create a caricature or lampoon, then I think it should be ok. For Mandarin, the usual depiction of his long hair and goatee and 10 rings are essential and imo don't seem problematic. As you said with M'Baku the Man-Ape, he can be portrayed as having elements of the White Ape incorporated into his armor, but clearly the depiction of him wearing a gorilla suit is ridiculous, and not just for the racist undertones, but because it also just looks dumb. Totally agree with you with regards to the female characters as well. There are men and women of all body types in the world and to exclude a voluptuous body type in Marvel Legends form simply to avoid the comparisons to decades of saturation in comics, seems like an over reaction. What Hasbro has been doing so far with the various female bucks has been largely fine, however I do agree that on certain characters (Emma Frost, Storm) they missed the mark.
Thanks RR!
I think Mandarin would be a lot easier than M'Baku/Man-Ape like you stated.
For the female figures, I'd just like the team to be more comfortable releasing various body types not just minor variations on slender physiques. If Barbies can have full-figured bodies in rotation it doesn't make a lot of sense for Marvel Legends to take a one-size fits all approach.
Hey Jeff! I’m glad you discussed this in the video. I’ve been wondering what caused The Mandarin to be such a heated topic and controversial. When I was a kid. The 8 year old Mikey would watch The Iron Man animated series and love the character. The green skin was my first impression of the character before I read the older comics. I really would like to see him in figure form again. Does green skin on an Asian male figure shouts out controversy!? I’m learning more as I continue exploring the mandarin.
That's funny. I was in college when you were watching the show :-)
I think if we get any version, the green skinned one seems the most likely.
Thanks as always, my friend!
When it comes to curves, Hasbro's biggest let down for me was the Cockrum/Byrne Era Storm & Thunderbird 2 pack. Storm is statuesque. Storm has always had curves, so when I finally got one of my most wanted figures in hand - I did feel a little let down. As for stereotypes, well I'm Irish and Banshee was always my favourite character because he enabled me as a boy to insert myself organically into what was primarily a New York City focussed universe. With the arrival of the Giant size X-Men team and specifically Banshee I could be a hero too. Now Banshee is an obnoxiously written character in the early days of X-Comics bordering on offensive to my adult sensibilities - he is ginger, a corn-cob pipe smoking, comically affable man who has leprechauns for friends, lives in a castle, who abandoned his daughter as a baby and had the always ridiculous "Begorrah!" as his catchphrase..but it was the early 1970s and eight year old me was delighted!
Mephisto, Man Ape and Mandarin are the nemeses of Marvel giants Doctor Strange & Spiderman, Iron Man and the Black Panther. Their omission is almost criminal at this point. Look to Banshee again and see the growth that character has made over the last 40 years - then apply that same lens to these characters whose origins are controversial but their history in total is important. Representation matters, even when it wasn't good. Banshee started as a two dimensional stereotype villain too, but it was still cool to know Irish people lived in the Marvel Universe, in time the tropes get dismantled and good wins out. Good always wins out in the end; Stan Lee and Jack Kirkby, Chris Claremont and John Byrne, Steve Ditko and Len Wein and so many other brilliant Marvel creatives taught me that. Hasbro can and should find a way to get these characters made.
Nuff said.
Thanks Adrian. Yeah, I wish Storm looked more like she did from Byrne/Cockrum, but short of using the Warbird mold I knew she was going to be as sender as possible. Appreciate your insight on Banshee. I've always been a fan of his!
I know i already commented but i have my work around for Man Ape and Mandarin
Man Ape has appeared in several recent cartoons and Lego Games. So his appearance is not the issue. But the name..yeah it needs to go. What I'd do is put the package as M'Baku and make his ape headdress removeable. That way you can display him as regular M'baku or white gorilla skin M'Baku as an optional homage to his classic look
Mandarin is easy. Base him off the animated series look and put him in the new retro iron man line. AND thankfully Mandarin actually has a real name in the series: Arnold Brock. On the packaging call him Arnold Brock & the Ten Rings or something like The Ten Rings (Arnold Brock). Absolutely easy workaround and everyone will be happy
Maybe that could work if they didn't show the pic of everything attached?
How about a Marvel legends Bolivar Trask-Peter Gyrich /weapons and effects package as well as some slightly smaller sentinels. All things X-MEN
Gyrich and Trask would be cool. I'm trying to think how we could get a Val Cooper figure too.
Imo I'm 100% sure we'll see comic Man Ape and Mandarin later down the line BUT with minor adjustments. Man Ape's controversy isn't from his costume which is actually pretty cool. It's his name. All they have to do is just call him M'Baku on the packaging and it's all good. If comic accurate MBaku can get in two LEGO video games, hes absolutely fine for a figure. And he's never really called by his villain name that much in comics anyway. And Mandarin? We're absolutely gonna see him in another iron man retro wave, but based off his animated series look. I highly doubt we'll see his masked look from the comics BUT his animated attire and green skin is the perfect compromise. I actually think that's his best look in any adaptation. So no. They're not too offensive to get figures in these modern times, there's easy work arounds to take away any negative or stereotypical connotations without botching the characters
I don't get any LEGOs figures these days, but have they done M'Baku in that comic look as a minifig? The green skinned version does seem the most likely option for us.
Or they could do the RIGHT thing and simply call him Man-Ape, which is his character name, and if anyone complains tell that person to get a life and stop looking for stupid things to be offended by. We need to stop catering to this orgy of "political correctness" gone insane which in reality is simply thought slavery.
They can pull off Man Ape if they labeled it M’Baku like Holocaust was labeled Nemesis. Other characters I’d love to be made are Arabian Knight with his flying carpet, American Eagle, Shanna in bikini ( again) Moon dragon in that classic “ costume” , Black Mariah or Big Bertha
Oh man, Black Mariah is another one I should have included! She's gotten a modern makeover now too, hasn't she?
Yeah , She’s an underworld boss still callin shots I’m sure due to the Netflix show. But we will never get the 70s version with the moo-moo dress and pistol lol. The 70s was a wild time lol
The Indiana Jones & the Temple of Doom wave and Hutt Slayer Leia are good indications of what the expectations from Hasbro and mainstream toy makers are going forward.
NECA and Super 7 are in segregated displays & deemed adult collectibles so they have more flexibility but as for toys marketed primarily towards children so that they can get as broad distribution as possible, ‘we’ are NOT the world anymore.
I think the option to sell through Pulse should open up different avenues to get some of these riskier figures out to collectors.
Regarding the Mandarin's design and how to produce him in the Marvel Legends line, his initial design, or as most know as the Silver Age costume, wasn't contentious considering the sole issue you could have with the original design is the facial aspect you listed. The Legends team could easily revamp the face to be more suitable as Alex Ross did for his artwork. Though referencing the commentator who said they made Lady Mandarin, that's a fair point considering wouldn't she be considered controversial, now why I state this is due to the simple fact Mandarin is a Chinese title while Psylocke herself is not Chinese. Now for the topic of Man-Ape, he appeared in Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Black Panther Quest which came out sometime after the live-action Black Panther movie I don't believe Marvel is apprehensive about utilizing the character considering he's been in the MCU and he still acts with the theme intact. Now for the final matter with Emma Frost and characters in her style, Marvel Legends has been depicting them with around the same body style as other female characters for a long time, involving the Kitty Pryde comparison, her having more of a voluptuous figure than Emma Frost is unnatural. Mandarin is the most likely of the three topics. Excellent Video.
Thanks so much for the kind words and your breakdown! I do think that Silver Age version with a tweak is all we really need and all I'd want for him as it just looks really cool!
Great discussion. We also need a Coal Tiger figure and a 2.0 Blue Marvel figure.
Thank you! I'd love to get all the versions of Blue Marvel!
Yes. And I forgot to a 2.0 bald version of Luke cage.
Great topic Jeffrey i would like a manape figure in the half ape costume i don't have a issue with it at all
Thanks man. I think that might be the best compromise and least problematic for Hasbro.
They should test the waters with a sexy babe wave. Comic Accurate Moondragon, Goblin Queen, Emma Frost. Black Queen Selene, Shana She Devil, Susan Storm Malice and Red Sonja
That sounds like a Pulse exclusive wave, but I'd be down for it!
Can we at least get the Armored Adventures Mandarin design?
I wouldn't be opposed to getting that one for sure!
im right with you on the mandarin i want to see. green costume with the purple skullcap/mask. i guess my problem is i always want to see the costumes they wore when i was a kid. right on about emma frost !!!!
That gets me too! I rarely think a newer costume is better than the one I first saw the character in.
It stinks cause they are really needed figures. Absolutely necessary for the rogues gallery of BP and IM. Just call Man Ape M'baku. It's unfortunate for him because I think that early look would be just such a cool figure. But the problems with it are understandable.
Mandarin isn't exactly Yellow Claw. He looks like a lot of old Chinese folk art minus the giant teeth and stuff that were actually offensive, but like you pointed out there are looks that could work. That Ross cover is nice, and would be really cool. I really want that Armor Wars 2 look with Fin Fang Foom if they make him a Haslab. It could be a good way to avoid stores being scared of putting him on the shelf. I really like the Shang Chi figure too.
Thanks for bringing up the historical context. I feel like people forget that with characters, like Iron Fist Mandarin and the original Asian looking Dr Strange, America had been at war with Japan Korea Vietnam for generations and grew up with really awful constant propaganda. We can debate the right and wrong of it, but as far as basic marketing ideals at that time should be taken into consideration when criticizing and judging the writers.
Thanks man. I always think it's helpful to look at the timeframe characters were created. Some of the dialogue Stan Lee wrote with Reed talking to Sue is eye-rolling now, but that's how women were treated in entertainment. He wasn't thinking about "empowering" her not to be dismissive. It was just the times.
I debated including some of those terrible images of old Mandarin, but decided against it. I do wonder if Fin Fang Foom would make the easiest route to get Mandarin a la Mephisto.
Great video!
Thank you Jim!
The only way we will ever get a new Mandarin is by avoiding the Yellow Peril “Fu Manchu” aesthetic. Green skin cartoon or modern business suit versions are the best bet.
Would the green skin version eliminate that aesthetic?
Maybe a Fire Lord from Avatar will come out that we can use for the Mandarin
The Netflix one?
@@LylesFigureFiles Yes. Hope Mcfarlane keeps the license and makes the characters from the show.
You hit it right on the head. Back then all these characters were based on what was going on in the world. You can't apply 2024 sensibilities to stuff back then. That's what really angers me about these cancel culture people. They'll come out with a different "version" of the character to make other groups happy. Why not change it up to bring out the character. It's like that RVD chase figure that got canceled because Asian culture got canceled. Why can't we look at it him paying tribute to the culture because of his martial arts background
I'm still confused by the RVD figure. It's tricky because in no way am I going to say what another culture should/shouldn't be offended over. In that case it seems weirder that it got so far to the rendered phase without it being caught and flagged.
What drives me crazy about it is that fi I did a custom classic Mandarin and went on a trip to China and showed it to 5,000 people and we started talking about the character and I asked each person if they found the character "offensive", not one Chinese person would be "offended". The only people who would argue that they're "offended" will be rich white liberals who have nothing better to do with their time than find sources on which to vent their displeasure in life. Sad, isn't it?
@@LylesFigureFiles no sense at all, but what's the line paying tribute and offensive. Something we'll never know
They won’t ever make these characters in figure form. Most of us want these characters represented, but Hasbro pumps the breaks. The number one on this list, Hooded Cobra Commander. You have to third party this option, to not offend someone who doesn’t know the comic character. So you brought up a lot of valid points with the clothes these characters normally wear. Hasbro won’t ever make these, another example Goblin Queen in her actual look. You’ll never get a savage land Rogue.
I wonder if Hasbro could get away with a Pulse exclusive Shanna and Rogue in her Savage Land attire?
@@LylesFigureFiles They could, if sold on their site. Obviously, they wouldn’t sell them in store. They would make a lot of people happy.
Hasbro should simply just sell them as online exclusives in limited numbers. If not, I'm sure some independent customizers will. . .
That seems like an idea that could work.
@@LylesFigureFiles Not to mention it's not like the comics those characters are in have disappeared.
I would be okay with a Mandarin in a suit Marvel Legend. But I think this all started with that crazy woman complaining about the slave Leia Black series action figure being on stores back in 2016 i think?
And I'm sure she had no idea what Slave Leia meant anyway.
Ah, it's so silly.
Incidentally, have there ever been any actual controversies about any figures? I can't think of any, but I am not an action figure historian. I remember something about Slave Leia a few years back but it was a storm in a tea cup sort of thing.
The Man Ape thing is just unfortunate really...there are so many animal characters...just about every animal has become some kind of super hero alias, so the ape connotations were obviously not intended to any kind of racial slur. Would love to get a version of M'Baku based on the earliest appearances...classic Avengers/Black Panther love to go with that amazing Kang, Ultron, etc etc...
And yes, more variety in the female figures bodies would be welcome.
I'm still annoyed with the Slave Leia thing. She's in a metal bikini, which she rocks while killing the first act's main villain!
You're right about those other animal characters -- Razorback, Grizzly, Rhino -- and they're fine. The Lethal Legion would be fun to complete!
@@LylesFigureFiles Exactly. Spiders, Serpents, Bears, oh my!👍
I have to disagree about Man-Ape. Guys in animal suits like Rhino, Grizzly, Gibbon, are pretty fun comics flair. His tacticool updated look is completely soulless in comparison, and not at all fun.
Oh maaan, I know. It's just he's gonna be the hardest even though there is plenty of precedence with dudes in animal suits.
I am in desperate NEEEEEEEED of a comic Mandarin. Not the suit look.
Yeah that suit look is too boring to me.
@@LylesFigureFiles I also feel like the suit look already has it's people. You know what I mean? Purple Man, Kingpin, Hammerhead, the Owl, and Jigsaw to name a few. There are already character that wear suits. Like I always want Riddler in a non suit look because Joker, Penguin, Black Mask, any mobster, Ventriloquist, Mad Hatter and probably one or two I'm not thinking of that wear a suit.
I think a lot of the people who are offended, or offended on other people's behalf, probably don't have anything else going on in their lives if they're mad about what figures Hasbro is or isn't making. Personally, I wouldn't buy any modern versions of Mandarin or M'Baku just because they're not recognizable. They're not iconic. I'll only accept a 60s/70s Mandarin and M'Baku because those ARE the characters in their truest form. Mandarin could easily be reuse of the Supervillains Red Skull/Dormammu mold, and M'Baku/Man-Ape could be easy reuse of the Sasquatch/Wendigo mold. They would be amazing for a Supervillains wave 2.
I think that Red Skull mold would be perfect for the Ross depicted version!
I wish we'd get a man-ape figure
Definitely doesn't seem like you're the only one!
Hasbro has made multiple versions of Red Skull. If u can make toys of a character associated with Hitler, you can make anything that you want. Nudity isn't a factor either. Hasbro made classic Hercules, Tigra, Weapon X, White Queen and Namor the Submariner. All of these with the exception of White Queen were sold at retail. Honestly, u can't get more risqué than Kazar and Namor. Hulk, Colossus, Beast, Thing and Iceman are all members of the skin society.
I can't believe that the marketing department at Hasbro hasn't pushed for every Asian character to be made since it would represent their demographic. Every collector wants these characters and nobody cares about the cultural impact of the characters. The movie FOMO doesn't apply to the toy lines and the Marvel Legends team knows that. They made a HELLFIRE CLUB box set not an Inner Circle politically correct box set.
It always feels like there's a double standard with acceptable clothing for figures of dudes -- Namor, Herc, He-Man, etc. vs. "risqué" female costumes. Good point about the Hellfire Club. I did understand the name change for the cartoon audience.
If a lego game can use man apes original design and name I don't really see any reason hasbro cant get away with it too.
How long ago was that LEGO game? Before 2020?
@@LylesFigureFiles like 5 or six years ago I think? So not too long ago
There isn't the remotest possibility they are EVER going to release an action figure of a black man wearing *any* part of the pelt of a white gorilla
Our only chance was 20 years ago when collector's lines weren't getting the same scrutiny that kid's toys were, but now? Absolutely not
Nooo probably not.
I feel compelled to point out that the current or most recent editor and chief of Marvel comics pretended to be an Asian man for years
Yeah that was really weird.
If they were to do comic M'Bakui would much rather have the full apps suit look. The half suit looks half@ss😂
I would think the animal shoulder armor would be more problematic than the others🧐having the headdress, gauntlets and other fur pieces are OK but jus don't hit the same as the full on suit😎
For some reason his full-suit looks like he's Ralphie's brother from A Christmas Story.
I really, really want a Man-Ape. Cool character and great costume! I'm talking about his original costume. So powerful and intimidating! But if they make him, he'd better have a growling ,snarling face and not a placid plain face. That would look like he'd been anesthetized. LOL!
@@LylesFigureFiles if you've seen the customs of they go full suit they 3 quarters of the way there using the Sasquatch baf
Since both Mandarin and M'Baku are some of my favorites, I just needed to comment on this, sorry.
To be honest, modern redesigns of Mandarin and M'Baku are very boring. Classics all the way, they are the most toyetic and recognizable.
I thought it was Moses Magnum at first with that modern M'Baku.
Considering M'Baku's classic costume, how come everybody can "read" Rhino and Grizzly as guys in suits, but M'Baku needs legal disclaimer even if his suit works in the exact same way...
Considering topic of ofensiveness, I live in a part of the world that constantly gets misrepresented in western media, but I still find most of the villains associated with eastern Europe absolutely awesome.
Modern designs are by and large boring. They're not nearly as creative as the old 70s, 80s and in some cases 90s costumes. If anything they play too safe and dull.
Excellent point about Rhino and Grizzly! I wish I'd mentioned that!
Mandarin, M’Baku, HateMonger with unmasked head, Jack of Hearts complicated design, MS. Marvel second custom Bathing suit is in there opinion she’s over sexualize, I do think with female the chest piece and back pieces should Come varies sizes cause your right they come in all shape and size, Cardiac another complicated design, so it’s gonna come down to four things with complex characters 1) Aesthetic 2) design complexity 3) sensitivity to culture 4)Time, so Mandarin with a redesign the same with M’Baku,Ms Marvel in here cheese cake custom probably no, Jack of Heart’s probably his less ornate custom.
I really think in terms of the female figures, Hasbro has to create different buck bodies for muscular characters like that great She-Hulk, an average size like Wasp and Sue Storm, athletic like Elektra and Spider-Woman and more statuesque like Storm, Emma Frost and Warbird.
I hope Jack of Hearts won't be a problem.
You and Strong Collectors must be drinking from the same water supply. They just did a video on this topic yesterday too.
On the actual topic: I feel like Hasbro's being too cute by half at this point. There are ways to make modern updates of these characters without playing into racist stereotypes.
That is WILD. Someone posted I copied someone else's video. I deliberately don't watch/scroll through many figure Tubers videos to avoid "borrowing" their ideas or doing my take on someone else's video.
I agree. I think there's some easy workarounds to making these characters in figure form.
Really, the only opinion that matters concerning the Mandarin is that of the Asian community. If they don't find it offensive, then it shouldn't matter.
Well, the ML team does have two Asian guys on the team so maybe we have our answer?
A classic comic Mandarin is based around Fu Manchu which has been seen in modern times as a negative stereotype that I suspect the Chinese manufacturers will greatly frown upon, let alone Hasbro themselves wanting to stay clear of any non-white culturally sensitive characters. The entire Indiana Jones range was hamstrung by their unwillingness to release the iconic bad guys which, along with the poor reception of the new film, killed that line. Same goes for Slave Leia and Oola in the Star Wars lines and not to forget the renaming of Slave One to Boba Fett's Starship. This is modern day political correctness/wokeness and corporate DEI in practice. We see it affecting films, comics, games and we see it affecting mainstream collectible toys. We will only see this change when attitudes change in society again reflected in the corporate world and the 'activists' are no longer in position of influence in those respective companies.
I don't know who thought it was a good idea to do Indiana Jones figures and not be willing/able to do all of the major characters.
@@LylesFigureFiles I suspect that wanted a quick way to cash in on the hype for the new film while hitting those nostalgia buttons at the same time and never had any intention on it being a big line... hence all the indie's one after the other maxing on that tooling, including all the suited guys.
The most offensive thing I've seen in Marvel Legends: That weird shelf sculpted into Moondragon's cleavage! What in the world was THAT about???
Ms. Marvel/Warbird should have some shape to her. She always did in the classic comics, so if we get a classic comic book version, it needs to follow suit. Retconned "classic" and "retro" figures that are neither are always disappointing to me. Like the 80th Anniversary classic Thor figure rockin' a modern looking Mjolnir. Sorry, but I don't get the point of that.
LOL about Moondragon.
It's funny. We've talked about Mjolnir for a bit and the more I pose my Thor figure, the more I'm like "yeah, Loston was right about the Mjolnir being too small and short."
We have two Asian men on the marketing team for Marvel. Let I trust their judgment and so if we never see the mandarin then I’m OK with it.
Check the comments. Apparently the name is more the issue than some other things as one poster mentioned talking to Ryan about him.
The stuff that is efensive and is is when he was fu man chu .not manderin. Fu was wrong stuff
Ahhh. Thank you for that insight. I love when y'all can give me more details on topics!
They could do cartoon mandarin from the 90s Iron Man cartoon. Doesn't he look alien. There's another character Marvel Legends will never do. hatemonger, he may be a Captain america villain.
He'd probably not get made for the alter ego and the pointy tip hat ;-)
This is a touchy subject. I go back to the iron fist debate. So you can’t have a white person as martial arts master, onto
Asian people can, but isn’t that stereotyping and racist? In a world
Of inclusiveness everyone should be able to
Everything. Eh. Idk. Yah his stuff boils my blood. And people can have opinions or well
Should be able to and not be automatically labeled wrong or racist.
I thought it was goofy switching up Snake Eyes to an Asian guy in the Snake Eyes movie.
Well ,whites have played asians and latinos even black ppl for most of history . 99% of all 'heros ' are white so maybe thats the reason they wont make any other ethnic characters except the few already out there .
I still have the old Toybiz Mandarin. I guess he will never be retired.
You noticed I haven't traded mine out either ;-)
We cant even get females that dont look like they arent going thru puberty . But look who is on the marvel team two gen z ppl who are probably afraid of offending their own shadow so i dont expect anything different from legends until they finally get a new team . The whole mandarin debate is ridiculous since i see plenty of asian figures in their traditional garb being sold so i think thats a red herring . I think they think ethnic characters wont sell ..and i cant really disagree with them .
LOL. The only mold that offered some realistic different proportions was the Rogue/Warbird one.
@@LylesFigureFiles i must have missed that one
Honestly, Marvel comics doesn’t have the greatest history when it comes to portraying Asian characters as villains look at the early Captain America representations of Japanese military officers, even with the first representation of a comic book lead of color, Jimmy Woo, the man, the myth, the legend, his villain is still the same kind of racist caricature in the 70s with the Mandarin…
You could replace Marvel with DC or any entertainment property.
man·da·rin1
noun
noun: Mandarin Chinese; noun: Mandarin; noun: mandarin; plural noun: mandarins
1.
the standard literary and official form of Chinese based on the Beijing dialect, spoken by over 730 million people.
"Mandarin Chinese"
2.
an official in any of the nine top grades of the former imperial Chinese civil service.
(especially of clothing) characteristic or supposedly characteristic of mandarin officials.
modifier noun: mandarin
"a red-buttoned mandarin cap"
an ornament consisting of a nodding figure in traditional Chinese dress, typically made of porcelain.
porcelain decorated with Chinese figures dressed as mandarins.
3.
a powerful official or senior bureaucrat, especially one perceived as reactionary and secretive.
"a civil service mandarin"
The issue, the way I see it, is the name "Mandarin". You'll notice "Lady Mandarin" is just called "Psylocke" on the packaging.
Thank you for further breaking that down. Makes sense. Would Wenwu work?
@@LylesFigureFiles possibly. I feel it's more apt to work than anything else. People who want the character will obviously buy it regardless of the name on the box.
I would love a Silver Age Mandarin. Now we know good and darn well we were not offended by that look in the 80’s. He didn’t look any more offensive than those Asian dudes in Big Trouble in Little China.😂😂
LOL. I think they were leaning into the stereotypes for that movie as part of the winking nod to the audience who got it.
@@LylesFigureFiles I can believe that. It was a little over top so that does make sense.
What is offensive about Mandarin from the X-Men comic? He wears the exact same costume as Psylocke as "Lady Mandarin" who they just did a figure of. And she's an Asian in armor.UNLESS the issue is that Asians can't be villains like everyone else.
I think the mustache "might" be offensive? Don't quote me on that. I really want a supervillain look for him though.
You copied someone elses video.
So only one person can ever discuss this?
Wow ur g a f for that comment
@@666hellviewlane yep
No. Another commentor said another Toy Tuber discussed this yesterday, but I don't watch or even scroll through thumbnails to avoid being influenced for idea topics from other folks. Just a wild coincidence.
Well the PC topic came up recently due to the mandarin being missing from the most recent iron man retro wave, so multiple people commenting on this is not close to theft. Great video Lyle!