harley ross.. its my only hobbie..If you were to get into reloading you'll find that its all about consistency which in turn .. equals accuracy.. I first got into reloading and found that my groups were much tighter than standard box ammo.. then once i got sub MOA I wanted better.. from my stand point I wanted to get as accurate as I could .. therefore chasing the "Ragged Hole" .. it is very addicting but also fun. there are things you can do that will increase your accuracy without reloading (resin bedding and such) but noting like fine tuning a rifle to a round.
Once fired brass had 0.001” runout or less. Brass has been full length and neck sized. For consistency in my process I want to turn the cases down to a desired dimension. However the runout usually stays the same or gets worse. I can see the shaft that rotates the case looks like it has runout as there is a lot of slop when i try to wiggle the shaft. The case tensioning system comes loose often too. Not sold on this tool yet but I will keep trying.
This a a response I got back from a company rep about case prep. Very helpful additional info. This tool can be used on unfired or previously fired brass, in either instance, we suggest the case necks be sized. We also recommend that they be trimmed to length, chamfered and deburred. Sizing again after uniforming is a matter of personal preference. Cutter selection is somewhat based on the shoulder angle of the cartridge as well as personal preference. The installed cutter has a 40 angle and will accommodate many cartridges. The additional cutter has a 30 angle and is compatible with cartridges with a shoulder angle less than 30 to include these two cartridges(.223,22-250). Cutters can be changed by positioning the unit over a shop towel to as a security measure to catch any bearings or springs that are dropped. Next, back out the detent set screw slightly, while leaving it in the neck turn body. Now unthread the adjustment screw and remove it from the unit. Lift out the installed cutter, leaving the spring. Insert new cutter. Reinstall adjustment screw paying careful attention to not run it down against any mandrel that might be installed or have it down too far preventing the installation of a mandrel and run detent screw back in to desired tension.
This tool works with only Hornady shell holders and they are not included with this tool. For best results, all cases should be of the exact same length, otherwise shorter cases would have shorter cuts...so trim all cases to a consistent length. Also by resizing without the expander ball and then using an expander mandrel, the internal dimensions of the case neck may be more consistent prior to neck turning.
you would think this process would reduce the life of a cartridge as there will be less material on the neck in some places I have though found that as I reload my rem. PCM, Hornady & Winchester cases the neck wall widths seam to get more and more even over time. Bad news is you have to watch this as when the walls become thinner you need to change your bushing dies to a lessor amount to get the proper neck reduction otherwise there will be next to no tension when reloading bullets. This I found out the hard way :)
Has the case been resized before neck turning. If you have to resize the case because it’s a once fired case how much neck tension should I put on the neck?
Cuttting into the shoulder will weaken a case. But not cutting the entire neck all the way to the shoulder will cause an external "doughnut" that gets pushed inside the neck when the case is fired (and the case neck and shoulder expand to the chamber wall). That internal doughnut can then cause accuracy problems.
Show a video on getting that detent back in when you change out the cutter... or in my case, it was not installed so that I would have the opportunity to chase a detent ball around the house.
Young_James#12 I never said it was a bad thing. just that it's pretty hardcore. I'm not a stranger to nerding out on stuff. I just wish I had the skills and could afford a rifle that could take advantage of that kind of precision.
K+M is more consistent for the price range and consentricity. The method of holding the base of the cartridge on this unit could potentially cut off center.
Mine didn’t click. Opened it up and the pieces were all there, it just looks like the installer couldn’t get the detent to stay on the spring. Neither could I. I think I’m just going to take it in for a return. This product seems like a massive pain in the ass.
Yeah good idea, but not really considering their machining is crap. My mandrel measure .311 way to big to get a .308 case over it. For the name and the price I expected more.
@@hornady that doesn’t really help either.... spoke to tech support in regards to the quick release bushings on your press and why there is movement in them when your resizing the brass! They said it’s normal to have movement in the bushings but can’t demonstrate this normality to me. The concentricity of my cases are all different due the quick release bushings moving during the process. Poor form on Hornady behalf
This is not something you will need if you fire form your brass to a single rifle. Just neck cutting is required after a few shots. How i shoot, this product is almost completely worthless
Glockg23 if all you do is close range plinking or hunting, then you are probably right, but if you want to squeeze out every last bit of accuracy out of you, your loads, and your rifle you would understand why it is important for your neck walls to be concentric.
harley ross.. its my only hobbie..If you were to get into reloading you'll find that its all about consistency which in turn .. equals accuracy.. I first got into reloading and found that my groups were much tighter than standard box ammo.. then once i got sub MOA I wanted better.. from my stand point I wanted to get as accurate as I could .. therefore chasing the "Ragged Hole" .. it is very addicting but also fun. there are things you can do that will increase your accuracy without reloading (resin bedding and such) but noting like fine tuning a rifle to a round.
Great video
Once fired brass had 0.001” runout or less. Brass has been full length and neck sized. For consistency in my process I want to turn the cases down to a desired dimension. However the runout usually stays the same or gets worse. I can see the shaft that rotates the case looks like it has runout as there is a lot of slop when i try to wiggle the shaft. The case tensioning system comes loose often too. Not sold on this tool yet but I will keep trying.
This a a response I got back from a company rep about case prep. Very helpful additional info.
This tool can be used on unfired or previously fired brass, in either instance, we suggest the case necks be sized. We also recommend that they be trimmed to length, chamfered and deburred. Sizing again after uniforming is a matter of personal preference. Cutter selection is somewhat based on the shoulder angle of the cartridge as well as personal preference. The installed cutter has a 40 angle and will accommodate many cartridges. The additional cutter has a 30 angle and is compatible with cartridges with a shoulder angle less than 30 to include these two cartridges(.223,22-250). Cutters can be changed by positioning the unit over a shop towel to as a security measure to catch any bearings or springs that are dropped. Next, back out the detent set screw slightly, while leaving it in the neck turn body. Now unthread the adjustment screw and remove it from the unit. Lift out the installed cutter, leaving the spring. Insert new cutter. Reinstall adjustment screw paying careful attention to not run it down against any mandrel that might be installed or have it down too far preventing the installation of a mandrel and run detent screw back in to desired tension.
Great tool for resizing brass after converting 308 to 7mm-08 and 243
This tool works with only Hornady shell holders and they are not included with this tool. For best results, all cases should be of the exact same length, otherwise shorter cases would have shorter cuts...so trim all cases to a consistent length. Also by resizing without the expander ball and then using an expander mandrel, the internal dimensions of the case neck may be more consistent prior to neck turning.
you would think this process would reduce the life of a cartridge as there will be less material on the neck in some places
I have though found that as I reload my rem. PCM, Hornady & Winchester cases the neck wall widths seam to get more and more even over time. Bad news is you have to watch this as when the walls become thinner you need to change your bushing dies to a lessor amount to get the proper neck reduction otherwise there will be next to no tension when reloading bullets.
This I found out the hard way :)
Has the case been resized before neck turning. If you have to resize the case because it’s a once fired case how much neck tension should I put on the neck?
Nice vid. This tool costs half what others do. Thanks
Bizarre how these idiots who can afford everything always whine about cost as if they actually had a perception to go with financial deficits.
and it's a better tool !!
Cuttting into the shoulder will weaken a case. But not cutting the entire neck all the way to the shoulder will cause an external "doughnut" that gets pushed inside the neck when the case is fired (and the case neck and shoulder expand to the chamber wall). That internal doughnut can then cause accuracy problems.
Show a video on getting that detent back in when you change out the cutter... or in my case, it was not installed so that I would have the opportunity to chase a detent ball around the house.
I'm just throwing this out there.....this is some pretty serious reloading nerd stuff.
harley ross then don't do it then. keep your 1 MOA group at 100. ill keep my 1 and a half inch group at 400 yards 😆
Young_James#12 I never said it was a bad thing. just that it's pretty hardcore. I'm not a stranger to nerding out on stuff. I just wish I had the skills and could afford a rifle that could take advantage of that kind of precision.
harley ross ahh... i understand. my apologies sir. maybe one day you'll have your rifle and can 'nerd out' like this haha.
@Matt Scott Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee
K+M is more consistent for the price range and consentricity. The method of holding the base of the cartridge on this unit could potentially cut off center.
Not sure where you got that info. The mandrel holds the center. This is why you see inconsistent material removal.
Can this gizmo be operated by a hand crank?
no ; machine shop 101 !
This is all fine and dandy however you can still have concentric problems on the inside of the neck.
Tim Germaine The neck reamer in the sizing die usually has a sandpaper like finish that removes any extra material on the inside of the neck.
You do this after you've used a ball mandrel to make the I.D of the neck concentric!
All you gotta do is run the cases through a mandrel before turning
The reason for neck turning is to create a consistent neck wall dimension(thickness) for bullet tension.
Mine didn’t click. Opened it up and the pieces were all there, it just looks like the installer couldn’t get the detent to stay on the spring. Neither could I. I think I’m just going to take it in for a return. This product seems like a massive pain in the ass.
Yeah good idea, but not really considering their machining is crap. My mandrel measure .311 way to big to get a .308 case over it. For the name and the price I expected more.
Give our technical support a call at 1-800-338-3220
@@hornady that doesn’t really help either.... spoke to tech support in regards to the quick release bushings on your press and why there is movement in them when your resizing the brass! They said it’s normal to have movement in the bushings but can’t demonstrate this normality to me. The concentricity of my cases are all different due the quick release bushings moving during the process. Poor form on Hornady behalf
This is not something you will need if you fire form your brass to a single rifle.
Just neck cutting is required after a few shots.
How i shoot, this product is almost completely worthless
Either you believe that fire forming corrects non concentric necks (I fire form 260AI,) or you disregard the benefits of neck turning. Please clarify.
John Nash Almost sounds like he's talking about case trimming versus neck turning.
Glockg23 if all you do is close range plinking or hunting, then you are probably right, but if you want to squeeze out every last bit of accuracy out of you, your loads, and your rifle you would understand why it is important for your neck walls to be concentric.
@@hotfarts6731 Either way he'd be incorrect, but you are correct that he doesn't understand something.