Katharine W True of many former contributers. Leaving seems to have been in their best interests, with full creative freedom they have flourished, while CA seems stagnant by comparison.
Yep. Being allowed to do what you want without someone taking you down because of your gender or simply because "they're the boss" really opens up room for creativity and earnestness.
2021: Lindsay Ellis dissavowed for racist comments EDIT: This is the original comment poster's mom, she sadly passed away due to falling into open road construction work, please do not reply to the comment unless respectfully, please do not continue the argument. Rest in Peace.
You know the "best" part of the screenshot about JewWario? That chatlog was referring to a _DIFFERENT_ Jane Doe that has emerged. I guess what Doug meant by "we've been getting complaints" is that there were not only multiple complaints, but that there were enough to get them confused with each other.
Futonrevolution How were they supposed to know which Jane Doe the document was talking about. The point was, they got complaints and they addressed it when it was a serious and credible enough allegation to address.
Hi, Mr Bubble! Sorry, your private messages were disabled, but I'm just informing you that your check has been sent in the mail. Thank you for your hard work!
I find it hilarious that Lindsay Ellis won a contest to be a female rip-off of the nostalgia critic and now her content is several tiers higher than the NCs by most measures. I always thought the Nostalgia Chick concept was lazy and cringey and overall really lame (not Ellis' fault obviously) so its nice to see that something truly good came from one of Doug Walkers donkey brain ideas.
You could see her slowly trying to distance herself from the "NC . . . but a girl" role she was originally delegated to, and also began to stop doing full movie rants in favor of more analytical, essay like content (for which she was kind of ahead of the curve). Even after I eventually stopped watching Doug's content, I would still check in to see some of her stuff. Fell off since then but now that she's one of the bigger video essayists I feel like i need to get back on the Lindsay train now.
@@looney1023 You should! Her latter videos are very very good, even won an Hugo Award for her documental on The Hobbit. She also has a series in BBC (I think) about literature called "It's Lit!".
I guess I have never seen her early stuff, when the girl in this video described her as "Nostalgia Critic with ovaries" , I found that weird. When it comes to most media she reviews she comes off well researched and just the right amount of snark.
This is why I want to watch all videos she's made, from the first and see how she evolves into her own character outside of Channel Awesome. - Some videos are up on a backup account on TH-cam, but a lot are missing. If there's backups somewhere outside of TH-cam, I would love to see that.
The whole "the women currently in our employ think this is fine" argument against sexist accusations pisses me off. I've seen it used so many times in so many different contexts and I really don't understand how people don't realize it's a massive conflict of interest, especially when the people making the claim do absolutely nothing to prove that women's claims of harassment and sexism do get taken seriously and don't end up punishing the women as much if not more than the men they're making complaints against. I have seen women try to speak out in the work place and get silenced, insulted, and even driven to quit in some cases. I have a family to support. Unless I have another opportunity lined up I really can't afford to risk pissing off my employers until things get absolutely dire. And even then, I work in a field where most jobs are gotten through referrals and recommendations. If I burn too many bridges or word gets out that I complain too much or "am hard to work with"...I could effectively cut myself off from the industry. I imagine that's even more the case for these kinds of content producers since we watch them for their personalities and likability as much if not more than their actual qualifications.
"I can see you're unhappy and I have heard other complaints about this person, but I've also heard a lot of good things. I think it's just a clash of personalities." - An actual quote from HR when I spoke out about my verbally and emotionally abusive manager (while backed up by several other people who had also fallen victim to a lesser degree). This was before anybody else had even been spoken to, as well as before being told that they'd made up their minds that there was no evidence of sexism (which was interesting because that wasn't what I was claiming) and that, if I chose to take it further, there would be no disciplinary action, not even a caution. They'd simply tell him he'd been reported by me and "get his side of the story" (which is completely fair, except they'd just implied that they'd already decided he was innocent and kept referring to all the good things he'd done and all the people who hadn't been upset with him). So my options were: A) Continue the report, give my abuser ammo and have nothing happen. B) Withdraw the complaint, still be treated like crap until I leave and then be spoken to by HR like I was being over dramatic or outright lying. Yeah, workplace harassment is handled like a joke sometimes.
@Medjai K More like virtually all cases. HR departments represent the employer's interests. That's who is paying them. Their job is to make sure the company's interests are covered in situations involving relations with employees. That's it. Representation of the employee's interests is what unions are for. (Union reps get paid by employees, via union dues, so that's who they work for.) If you aren't in a union, it's pretty much you against the world.
one notable thing is Malcolm and Tamara are within the "inner circle" of CA in that they were paid actors (so actually paid a wage) brought on to aid in Dougs show, so their experience is going to be WILDLY different from the actual content producers...
91Vault True They as direct employees who work with Doug, don't likely have to put up with being ignored by management for example, and as employees have more legal standing with which to raise a complaint if they were mistreated, and management knows that so they play nice
To me, the "vindictive former employee" trope just seems like one of the many ways in which companies or institutions try to pin the blame for a fallout of a business relationship onto the individual, rather than acknowledging a larger-scale, systemic issue that they're responsible for. Employee gets exploited / taken advantage of at their job - decides to quit and tells off their former manager/boss Company: "vindictive former employee!"
Me: omg I hated working in fast food. It was shitty pay, hard work, and the customers were so rude. CA probably: is this or is this NOT a picture of you smiling while handing someone a Happy Meal?!?! Liar!
I’ve seen some people say “They chose to work with him, so they can’t complain!” Or “My job sucks too, they should get over it!” Like, I’ve volunteered my time with several different groups that were never making any sort of profit, and they STILL served refreshments. Just cus you choose to stay doesn’t mean they don’t owe you the smallest of dignities. If you’re volunteer group doesn’t provide you with refreshments and they last over several hours, unless they tell you beforehand that they can’t get any (which I haven’t really seen any professional volunteer groups do) it’s the most professional thing for them to do. Also, if you’re job sucks, that doesn’t make it ok. Your job SHOULDNT treat you badly. I can understand not standing up for yourself at work without risking getting fired. But just cus your job treats you badly doesn’t mean that your job is SUPPOSED to treat you badly.
But it goes both ways. Do you honestly think people went to work for CA and/or Doug because they like them? They wanted fame and money too but didn't realize they were dancing with the devil. Lindsey is in business as much as Doug. CA should've treated their people better but it is business at the end of day for everyone
Chan Thorpe Sorry if I’m misunderstanding your comment, but the problem was that they weren’t acting like a professional business. They were firing people left and right for disproportionate things, not providing basic refreshments for several hour long shootings, and a variety of other issues. Also, many of the people were friends with Doug, and even if they wanted to get more famous on TH-cam, they were willing to volunteer long hours for his various movies, and accommodated quite a lot to satisfy CA’s standards, and CA still didn’t provide them with the basics. Just because the TH-camrs involved got out physically unscathed and went on to have good careers after doesn’t mean it was ok for CA to treat them with such blatant disrespect for their time and health. And even if they were just in it for money, does that mean that CA is allowed to neglect its workers and jeopardize their health, among all the other things they did?
@@gregjayonnaise8314 Oh no you misread my point. Horribly I agree with most of what you say. HOWEVER I do think it prudent to not paint the victims as overly altruistic. Doug acted badly as did CA but as YT person myself its a brutal bargain - Doug had the brand name and used it - Why do you think these people wanted to work for CA? Because they liked Doug? I doubt it. Blame mostly goes on one side no doubt. But they had some idea of what they were getting into.
Chan Thorpe Chan Thorpe I understand your point, thanks for clarifying. I don’t necessarily think that the people who worked for him were saints or anything, but ultimately, my main point was that CA is primarily to blame for virtually all of the issues that occurred due to their insane lack of professionalism. Even if the volunteers knew CA was bizarrely run, I’m sure that none of them could have predicted that things would be THIS hectic. And even if they did, the fault is still on CA for being so unprofessional, not on the volunteers who couldn’t see the warning signs. Picture a volunteer going into a business that is known for abusing their workers. The volunteer knows this and goes anyway. If they get abused, does that make their abuse legal? Perhaps if they signed a contract explicitly stating that they consented to it, but otherwise, no. Let’s say that every volunteer went into CA with money and fame as their only goal. Even if they were doing it for completely selfish reasons, as long as they do their jobs, they must be treated with the dignity that any business would give their volunteers. And ultimately, the lack of professionalism was on CA’s behalf, since their the business that hired them all in the first place. So I still remain on the sides of the youtubers who spoke out against CA.
@@gregjayonnaise8314 100 percent agree. Even if people at CA were just in it for the money they did their work and were treated terribly. CA messed up and messed up bad No disagreement really between us. My only thing is that while CA is 90 percent wrong here we shouldn't be too naive. Lind wants fame as much as Doug. But she's talented and her following shows that. Doug himself is difficult. Yes he signed a contract but looking the other way is not acceptable. He could have done more. Didn't think he was a good critic but never thought he was a bad person. He's now a big question mark and will be for awhile. Be good and keep safe Spidey LOL
The pattern of misogyny and assault is the worst thing about this, especially since so many people are being so dismissive about it. And, thank you for the part about working conditions. I keep seeing people saying, "My job sucks too, so get over it." or "Well, they're the ones who wanted to work there."
What’s all the more telling is how as time as gone on.... male former producers who.... shall we say, lean to the gamergate side of the pie.... have come out and said how they never experienced _any_ of this and that the management was just the nicest and the best to them. I. Can’t. Imagine. Why.
That is because there is no evidence and you cant except people to believe them when they came out years later after the so called crime is out. Plus with recent false rape allegations like mattress girl, most of bill cosby's accusers, Uva hoax,duke lacrosse and the list goes on. If I was Channel Awesome I would get my lawyers ready and start demanding all these people and sue them into the stone age. Then in the future then i would record and store everything that has to do with interactions with channel awesome staff.
Alicia I think we can all say that OUR JOBS SUCK at some point or another... So should they get over it? Well, NO! I feel what people forget about all this is that Channel Awesome is NOT A JOB! It is a BUSINESS... No-one in that complaint WAS EVER AN EMPLOYEE!!! Had they have been Employees, They would have had RIGHTS! Why do people think that Channel Awesome have sat on this for SO DAMN LONG.... It bloody obvious... With each and every person being a 'Contributor' - With NO EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS INVOLVED... Legally, Channel Awesome has 'Theoretically' no reason to act... 'Theoretically' they have actually broken NO LAWS... Either UK, International or Federal US... Note that I said 'Theoretically'... If Mike Michaud is not careful about how he handles this... And if this blows up any further... This may be his THIRD BANKRUPT COMPANY... As despite the fact the producers Volunteered content... Despite the fact they were NOT actually contracted Employees... There is a VERY, VERY HIGH CHANCE of a Legal Challenge and Channel Awesome COULD INDEED LOSE! The only reason it has not yet gone down that route in my view, Not only as it would cost all the participants a damn fortune... But many of teh former producers DON'T ACTUALLY WANT THAT!!! They just want them to be a BETTER COMPANY!
DoggySporty I am a Channel Awesome Fan... Still even now a Subscriber... But will I defend them? HOLY FUCK NO!!!! In fact, Follow me on Twitter and later today I will drop my version of what this 'Response' should have been so you can see that even us fans are MORE INTELLIGENT than their management!!! They may choose to ignore fan concerns, BUT WE ARE THE CONSUMERS OF THEIR CONTENT - WITHOUT US, THEY HAVE NO F**KING BUSINESS!!! They need to remember that!
The most stupid thing about all this is because these allegations are referring to things done years ago Channel Awesome could have just sent out the vaguest most insincere apology of 'we made mistakes, we were a young company trying to find our footing, we're very sorry, we're doing better now' and that would have literally been enough for most people.
+Rebecca Clark Ms. Clark I second that notion. All Micaude and Co. had to do is say "we made mistakes, we were a young company trying to find our footing, we're very sorry, we're doing better now" but they've made matters worst... After seeing this video, I now see why JewWario's corpse is dragged into this madness... I'm glad I was never hired by those idiots. Micaude clearly has no clue how to run a business and it was going to crumble as a result eventually.
A Ninja Ego maybe? Perhaps they genuinely believed they had the clout to ride it out? I'm reading into their screen performance a lot but the Walkers seem to have quite a high opinion of themselves, those behind the cameras I'm not sure on. Perhaps they had it in there heads that they were above reproach.
ughhhhhhhhhhhhfuck having JewWario being revealed to have been the groomer is just....really painful. I was so incredibly sad when he died. I definitely understand why Jane Doe wanted to keep his identity secret, calling out a man who did not die too long ago tend to bring more anger from fans than usual. these kind of situations bring out really uncomfortable and conflicting feelings in general
Yea, I remember at the time his reputation was such that doesn't seem to have been taken seriously. I vaguely remember hearing about the '13 issues framed in the context of a 'crazy fan ruining reputations' etc
TindraSan I'm sorry.. Am I missing something here? Everyone is talking about this as if all of those accusations are fact. I've read (I think) all information available about this situation, and it appears to me that this whole mess is based on the testimony of one anon. After that a bunch of former ca contributors "confirmed" that the Person in question told them her story... Why again am I supposed to believe baseless accusations, never made public before, never brought up to the authorities? Don't get me wrong, Justin might very well have been a rapist. I didn't know him, wasn't huge fan of his work either, but for all we know he might just have cheated on his wife with a stupid fangirl and she regretted it later. Is that really how we want to treat rape accusations? Guilty unless proven innocent?
@Squirrelknight Unfortunately that is the climate we live in these days, where the mere accusation without evidence, without proof is enough to ruin someone's reputation. If you ask someone for evidence to support their claim then you are yelled at for being a "victim blamer". Due process is thrown out of the window these days because of social media and the public at large, you can be roasted and destroyed without ever setting foot in a court room.
Things that Doug Walker has apologized for: Not putting Optimus Prime's death on a saddest nostalgic moments video. A bad let's play of Bart's Nightmare. Getting some actors names wrong. Things he hasn't apologized for: Not paying his actors to help him film his crappy movies. Firing producers for unfair reasons. Covering up rape and grooming allegations.
can't forget that time doug apologized in character as the critic for things that he did to a bunch of his fictional characters in one of his shitty movies, but couldn't bring himself to even say say a simple sorry to any of the people he worked with and for all the stuff he did in real life.
@@evanbarth7173 Do you really think that's as bad as covering up rape allegations? It was a bad video/album, but he really doesn't need to apologise for that.
Its amazing how Channel Awesome managed to "accidentally" give us every clue, including the dates he was fired, to work out out exactly who the previously redacted groomer was while still claiming to be protecting privacy. So that now rather than the initial complaint which was against them about wanton neglect, mismanagement and disregard of accusations of grooming/assualt on their part (while respecting the wishes of anonymous individuals who didnt want everything dragged out)... The entire conversation and responsibility has been moved to discussing the actions a guy long dead and I dont want to say easy target because he was deffinatly the one at fault, but lets use the words... Convieniantly silent decoy. So that in the meantime the enablers and previous centre of criticism, Channel "I told him not to do this again" Awesome moves quietly towards the door.
I imagine it was also an extremely difficult time for for all the friends of JW too. I remember how shocked and heartbroken the former CW producers were at his passing. To learn the kind of monster he was must be like losing him all over again.
As sad as I was when JewWario took his life, beforehand I was put off by him. He creeped me out. I was cosplaying Panty from PSG when I was at a convention summer of 2013. My sister and I ran up to him starstruck to grab another picture(we met him the day before with some friends.) He took 3 pictures with me. One for me, one for his group( I can't remember what it was called. They covered cons.) and one for him. It alerted me, only due to my mother giving me uber-duber stranger danger paranoia. Later when I followed gim on Tumblr, I never found the picture. He had posted so many of his personal con photos but not mine. I didn't think to ask. Over time I found his tumblr content to be questionable and for whatever reason, I felt compelled to unfollow him. I had forgotten about it until his death. I remember feeling bad and a little guilty because he was dead now. I now know that my feelings were right were right. I feel weird posting this, but this all just occurred to me and I need to talk about it.
@oktopustrainer he took pictures of her for the Express purpose of putting them on his tumblr. Then didn't. He lied to her ab why he took photos of her.
isnt it kinda scummy to bring out all this information pretty much destroy his name... while the guy is dead and cant defend himself anymore..its one thing to be angry but other thing is, destroy somebody life with only your side of the story its kinda scummy at this point bringing stuff up that happened years ago, thats same thing as what is happening to michael jackson even tho he got equated from his child rape cases, and the guy has been dead for years to... whats the point of proving it so you can stab somebody loved one in the back to.
@@MxPokirby How do you know that its truth..like i said you cant accuse a person that is dead because he has no way of defending himself from the grave and with weak evidence... its just spitting on his family because they get backlash.
This is the third or fourth video of yours I've watched and I just wanted to say your commentary is incredibly thorough, articulate, and insightful. This is extremely standout work in the field of this kind of channel at least in my experience. Thank you for the insight and keep up the great work!
It was the only smart thing they did. They clearly did not think they needed to apologize. Frankly, if they had just apologized anyway it would have blown over a lot faster. But if they didn't want to give everyone the answer they wanted the smart thing to do was not reply and wait for it to blow over.
The sad tale of Channel Awesome’s demise is one that reeks of Shakespearean irony. This all started with Doug, and now, it ends with Doug. All because at the end of day, it’s better to defend a heartless sociopath, rather than admit wrongdoing.
That makes him a sad and interesting character to dissect. He is still an active accomplice in the whole thing. And his vote for firing holly is just horrible.
I remember when he quit his 9-5 and acknowledge he burned several bridges. Prolly an understatement in hindsight, and that probably won't look so hot when he inevitably needs to get a second job to supplement his income.
I appreciate Sarah's logic, moderate tone, brevity, and coherency. (Dare I say Lindsay Ellis-esque?) Too much of the commentary on the issue is loud, curse ridden, overlong and emotion driven. I suspect CAs lack of a real apology had to do with fear that a real apology could be used as evidence in future litigation. Sadly, Doug failed to issue a statement along the lines of : "Based on these serious charges in this controversy, we are reviewing our HR, employee relations and safety practices." Issuing a (weak) rebuttal was the dumbest thing that could have done. Further, it is very disappointing that Doug went along with his "joke" despite major misgivings from both Lindsay Ellis AND Linkara. Common sense should have told him that when two of his most intelligent and circumspect reviewers having similar complaints, it was probably a sign he should have changed the scene. I hope the management have learned a lesson...losing most of their talent and 20k viewers, becoming the targets of a massive campaign against them...is a hefty price to pay. But, I do believe in redemption, so I remain hopeful that they will grow from this experience.
Same I still enjoy there content and I hope the move past this because low-key this shit was heart breaking when I heard it and to add fire to the flames this came out during the Logan Paul and other TH-cam drama B.S so it’s just sad to hear a company that you loved for years and cherished comes out about this. All and all I hope they recover from this and learn better in the future. ( sorry I literally repeated what you said but yeah I just agree ok bye :)
CA just posted a nostalgia critic review on their youtube channel, and people in the comments are defending doug, acting like he's completely innocent in all this, this may not be all doug's fault, but the fact that he just stood by and let michaud treat content creators like crap, and the fact that he's done nothing to address any of this makes him just as guilty
It's called surviving and paying the bills. CA is Dougs Employer. There are a lot of businesses that do shitty things to employees..but most of the other employees shut up to keep their job. Besides..the other creators are grown ass adults..no one held a gun to their heads to stay working there.
neoasura - I don't think so. I mean, Doug was exactly the one and only person who Mike and Rob could not touch, because he IS the brand they put everything on. Doug is their black horse, their trump card, their ace in the sleeve; they gave him everything, shitting on everyone else, to put him in the spotlight even more. They wouldn't dare to touch him, because they threw too many resources at him already. If there is one person who could stand up to them, that person was Doug. He could speak on the behalf of the other creators. He could convince Rob or Mike to stop screwing around and start to listen to other people. He could HELP many employees of CA by addressing their issues and trying to enforce some change. And he sat there, with both thumbs up his crusty, bearded asshole, and did exactly nothing. At this point, I hope that Channel Awesome will die screaming, and when this happens, Doug will perish with the rest of those soulless excuses for human beings. He is no victim. He is one of them.
...Which is why they all left. Point is, whether Doug wants to admit it or not, he has a lot of influence so don't act like he was just some lower level desk jockey. Do you really think CA would survive if Doug left? Before the mass exodus I mean. People are saying that Doug is complicit because he did nothing to stop these practices when he could have. Don't get me wrong. I get it. If you're making bank with the current status quo, you're not gonna want to mess with it. Still a pretty shitty thing to let all that stuff happen the way it did though.
And yall lot act like this is all bloody news. Do you ever wondered HOW CA came to be? It was created because Doug was afraid to take responsibility, and sold IP rights to the first dude who had the balls to take it. Thats Dougs character - extreme doormat. Man didnt even had the balls to say Linkara (of all people) to fuck off when he was acting like a giant moron. It ended well (and rather funny) thankfully, but doesnt that paints the character?
I find it really scummy that Michaud NAMED the women who said that they didn’t feel harrassed. Oh yeah good, why don’t you paint a bullseye on them and give them a sign that says “DOX ME,” why don’t you? I don’t know how many were adamantly defending him, but if I were one of those actors, I would not want my full name attached. Cause say I didn’t feel harassed, but still strongly disagreed with how Michaud ran the company. Him putting my full name down makes it seem like I fully support him, which in turn opens me up to online harassment. (PS: please don’t harass anybody. call them out for backing up a cock, but do not harass them.)
And the the thing is, of course they're gonna treat the paid talent with more respect than the unpaid people. If they treated Malcolm and Tamara the same way they did the other CA producers, there'd be lawsuits up the ass.
every single rebuttal is just "but like.... we were cooperative and nice these cherrypicked times, that means we have never done anything wrong in our entire lives!"
Channel Awesome struck me as a teenager as a lame manchild nerdy and skin deep provider of what can generously be described as content. As a full on adult it's pretty neat to be vindicated. Also now that Lindsay is doing her own stuff she's shown how brilliant she's always been but was hampered by talentless hacks.
I agree. I liked it back in the day, but that had more to do with the occasionally insightful joke or comment you could find after sifting through the garbage.
Lindsey Ellis makes way - - way better content then Channel Awesome. She’s fantastic as a creator, her essays are so thought provoking and (in a way) enlightening. I always learn something new, it can be informative or even influential, She’s good at explaining the agenda of which-ever trivial influences we have come to know - and have known for years, then she outlines so concisely. So not only can she inform us, she can also entertain us. She’s got a ‘cool-chick’ personality that makes her (on top of being well informed) really agreeable! Yeah she’s a top tier channel.👌
Of course Tamara would be treated well. She's part of the Nostalgia Critic IP. Michaud only cares about people who make him money, and of course being part of an IP that he owns, she's going to do just that, thus he has an incentive to play nice. Same with Malcolm. I saw him make a comment that Michaud was better than he was back when all this drama happened, but I suspect he just never saw this side of him due to the same fact that he's part of the Nostalgia Critic IP.
I've been on some pretty shitty sets, but 18 hours with no crafty sounds like hell on earth. Most sets can't stand up for 1 hour without crafty. Great video as always.
I know, Lyndsey complained to Doug, but he just brushed it off like a joke. Channel Awesome makes how much money? And they can't even feed em some basic food and some bottled water? Duh Fuq?
channel awesome: sure our work environment was garbage, but it's LEGAL garbage sarah z: ok, but that's not any better. you see how that's not any better, right??
Funny that out of the entire document Channel Awesome only attempt to refute (and by refute I mean confront by name in a very agressive way) the claims made by a select number of contributers from the documet (and by select I mean only female or the one male who reported harassment)
One of the claims of the doc: "Men who stood up for themselves were ignored; women who stood up for themselves were disregarded or treated as troublemakers." Channel Awesome: "That's ridiculous! That didn't happen! To prove it, here's a refutation where we ignore the men who stood up for themselves and imply that the women were liars and troublemakers!"
Right? Lindsay and Linkara both mentioned the uncomfortable rape jokes and they """""""disproved"""""" the claim by attempting to discredit Lindsay. Edit: oh, haha. She just said it 😜
In regards to the JewWario revelation, I only saw JewWario's "You're not stupid" video, and agreed with him on the notion of valuing one's self more, but I obviously don't condone any bad acts JewWario was said to have done. I hope the victims completely recover and also hope people don't use this as an excuse to justify "Why suicide is good." I really don't think this should be used as an opportunity to attack people, but to help each other up.
I'm so glad The Dom got out of there, now hes dominic noble now, (he realized the obvious innuendo) and you should watch him if you like books or movies or just like listening to a guy who sounds smart and sarcastic
Wait, he's from CA? I only started watching him this year but his content is WAY better than anything I would associate with that trash heap. The way he talks about books like 50 shades and other abusive/predatory literature and how it's cheap shock value and damaging would make me think he'd never have anything to do with CA's style of content.
Nice video. What also gets me is actor Malcolm Ray. The former producers have all said "Please don't go after current CA members," but Malcolm - in all his "infinite" wisdom - has taken a vehement pro-CA stance and painted his bosses as the victims. He honestly thinks CA's two horrendous statements should have put the matter to rest, but they didn't because, y'know, they sucked. I'm glad to have not been on Twitter since Aug. '16, but looking at him ACTIVELY engage Tweeters with his "CA are the real victims" and "they already apologized" tweets (that Michael Jackson photo was the worst) is beyond sad. Tamara keeps RT'ing Malcolm and CA's statements with ❤ emojis, but hasn't made any statements herself... yet (she keeps saying "video coming"). Both she and Walter Banasiak have officially said "I stand by CA". Anyway, yesterday saw the departure of Brad Jones, ERod, and BattleGeekPlus. The site's official homepage no longer bothers to update, and message boards have devolved into a mod-free wasteland of doxxing one another, rape jokes, and explicit images of violence and porn (seriously, DO NOT go there😨). And to think: at least some (not all) of it could have been prevented if someone had given a sincere apology. Too bad CA's 10th year is also its last.
Wow. I'm incredibly disappointed in Malcolm and Tamara. I loved those two, but now that I see your comment I know it's not just Tamara sticking up for CA.
Yeah the situation with those three really sucks. It seems to me that they’re stuck in this rough situation where the bosses they love having are coming under a huge amount of fire, so I really don’t know what I would do in that situation. I don’t follow Malcolm on twitter but wow the “they already apologized” comment is way too much because anyone with a brain can tell that it’s a non apology. Ughhh I hate it because I love Tamara so much! I was hoping that she would be one of the ones to jump ship so I could continue supporting her, but that’s not how it’s looking. I can see Doug and rob being assholes irl but Tamara, Malcolm, and Walter all seemed so genuine! 😔
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, I wouldn't be too hard on them. Doug and Rob are their friends/bosses and they've known them for years. The former producers for CA are complete strangers to them. If I heard people I know nothing about accuse my friends of abuse, assault, etc. out of the blue, I don't know what I would believe.
Paul Robertson It's not accurate to say all the former producers are "strangers" to them. In particular, Linkara, Beth Elderkin, Brad Jones, and a few others on the document have been working with Malcolm and Tamara since Doug hired them. (Tamara's in the current storyline on Linkara's show.) For me, the problem with Malcolm & Tamara is two-fold: 1 - they're entitled yo their opinions, but Malcolm's outright dismissal of the former producers and hyperbolic (re-)interpretation of the CA statements is problematic; and 2 - why the hell is Malcolm speaking more than the actual CA higher-ups?! SomeJerkWithACamera left when he said he didn't want to sound like CA's spokesman, but neither he, Malcolm, or anyone else should have that problem - CA should make statements (ones that aren't terrible) and put THEIR names on them, even if it's Michaud. The one person who ABSOLUTELY HAS TO SPEAK is Doug. Ownership of NC or no, he's the literal and figurative face of the company. He's probably on a short leash by Michaud, but the lack of an ofgicial statement by him really makes things worse.
"Maybe the word sorry is harder on Doug Waker's vocal chords than 11 years of non-stop screaming" OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT.
The part that annoyed me most from the first response is where they say they are open to constructive criticism, but constructive criticism without a productive end does nothing to help either party. Calling serious allegations "criticisms" is really insulting in my opinion. It just serves to downplay the seriousness of some of the allegations towards them. Them saying these "criticisms" would have no productive end is especially egregious as the "productive end" should be obvious. They allegedly had some bad business practices in the past, and they should move to rectify that. The second response is where I felt this situation had become irreparable. Before, I thought that Channel Awesome might have been able to recover if they had handled the situation with as much gravity as it deserved, but that response proved they had no intentions of taking it seriously. I agree with everything you said, and I feel there are some points I could add as well. The first paragraph where they say "address the lies that have been alleged by multiple disgruntled individuals with vindictive intentions" shows how inept they are at PR management. Even if you are in the right, and have proof, you're not going to get any points by personally attacking the people making the allegations. The second paragraph where they say they try to keep dealings with their contributers private but this document forced them to respond comes across as victim-blaming. As if to say "we were going to take the high road but these people have forced us to reveal negative things about them". Channel Awesome doesn't seem to realise they are viewed as the bad guys by the majority of people. Even if they are in the right, they cannot afford to act like they are before even proving anything. I like the fact they couldn't even be bothered to get actual statements from the female employees saying how great the working conditions were. It's just "well we weren't awful to every female we encountered so that's good enough, right?" Lastly, it's a minor thing but them bringing up how they donate to charity is a bit sleazy. As if to say "come on guys, we're not so bad. We donate to charity". The sad thing is, most of the people involved in the initial document only wanted an apology and acknowledgement of what transpired. They weren't looking for Channel Awesome to shut down or something horrible to happen to the Walkers; they just wanted some closure on the matter. Not only has Channel Awesome denied them this, they've made the whole situation worse as far as I'm concerned.
PhalanxKnight Seems to me that they had such an inflated ego they genuinely thought that they would be seen as in the right. I don't think they realise that many fans of CA are also fans of former contributers, and many of us when confronted by the allegations were more inclined to side with those former contributers. Where perhaps CA thought they would have a loyal fan base, they failed to realise they were facing an uphill fight to save their image as we naturally started to scrutinise their every move.
Funny, I look at the disaster that is how CA has dealt with this, and it makes me think of everything that was going on at Screen Junkies last October, and how differently the two company’s dealt with their situations. The CA situation didn’t seem that bad at first until they made their first tone deaf response, pouring gasoline on what had been a relatively small fire, seemingly only taking further action when those watching are wondering how it could get worse. By contrast, Screen Junkies took the opposite path. They had a huge outcry right off the bat when Andy’s actions came to light, but they actually dealt with it and eventually came out of it even stronger. Even if they didn’t mean it, it’s surprising they didn’t take a similar path based on how well it worked(kinda fits with the “mismanagement” claims against them. There are examples of what does and doesn’t work in these situations, and they still went ahead with the “we’re right. It’s everyone else that’s the problem” approach).
It’s even more ridiculous when you remember that the Screen Junkies controversy came half a year before the CA controversy. They had the framework for how to handle it laid out right in front of them, and they still fucked it up
Basically, one of the founders of screen junkies(the guys who make “Honest Trailers” on TH-cam) Andy Signore came under fire when word about multiple sexual harassment claims became public knowledge, the worst being an incident where a female contributor was threatened that her boyfriend(who was an audio engineer at the company) would be fired if she made a big deal about it. What got people really riled up is that these claims were brought to HR months earlier, and nothing was done until things went public(which happened when two of the victims realized they weren’t alone and there were multiple victims). Andy was fired, and after a two week break in videos, a video came out with several of the more well known remaining hosts and writers discussing what had been going on the last couple weeks behind the scenes. Basically they got together and told corporate of all the changes that would be needed before they would consider continuing to work there(the video should still be out there. Search for “what happened, what’s next” with screen junkies to watch). Bringing in outside third party assistance with an future HR issues, and a code of conduct for employees to follow. They also had a frank discussion with viewers about concerns and suggestions for improvements. Hope that helps explain the situation.
This was very eloquent and concise for how much it covers. I can't believe how many people are crawling out of the woodwork that still blame Lupa for Spoony sucking. They never let it go.
One blogger made a video about this situation in which he mixed Lupa and Nostalgia Chick, saying he never liked her. People just gonna blame who they wanna blame.
You've only been making videos for a month, you said? This is the only one of yours I've watched, and I'm really impressed! Your production values are good, you're very articulate, and very reasonable. I liked that you went out of your way to explain stuff like burden of proof but then address why that doesn't apply. You weren't just another screaming mouth in the void, you actually contributed something. And you've only been making videos for a little while? Good job!
quick comment on production, I recommend turning auto white balance off on your next video since every time your hand enters the sunlight your camera freaks out and messes up your WB really bad. Here's a tip depending on your set up, auto white balance can be useful for finding the correct balance, and then you switch it to manual from there so it doesnt keep changing for you. Great content though. Your commentary and explanation are on point.
There's one point that REALLY irritates me that I haven't heard many point out. In their "response" they state "Obviously, we cannot address all 73 plus pages of accusations against us in this forum, but we will address the most egregious now." and one of the points that is apparently something to be aggrieved about is "ACCUSATION - The document talks about the drop in traffic to the site". As I've stated in a couple of videos on this but haven't had picked up on yet, what... in fuck... does that have to do with the most serious of the accusations levied against you? Who gives a shit about site traffic when it comes to accusations of sexual abuse? I think you'd be more worried about that than puffing your chest out and talking about site traffic as a personally egregious claim against your crappy company. What, you just couldn't help but get in a "look how great we are" statement that should somehow absolve you of serious issues? Not only was the entire "response" laughable, but that statement was an absolute slap in the face.
Strathaczar I think the reason why they wrote it like that was to make the accusations seem less serious. If they say that they’re addressing the most serious ones, and then pick out the one to do with drop in traffic, people will think that the accusations aren’t about anything very serious. Of course, they didn’t account for all the videos made on it.
Casual viewers, hell, I was a huge Channel Awesome fan until this shit started happening. I had an inkling that something was wrong once the folks like Lindsay, Kyle and Rantasmo started bailing to form Chez A. What that wrong thing was, I was wrong about it. I thought it might be Channel Awesome wanting to move more towards "anti-SJW" bro-friendly, less intellectual content, and, I wasn't exactly...wrong? But the gory details were really insane.
Its terrible how long they’ve managed to get away with treating their employees like this. CA’s response to this is also really worrying- when you ignore issues like these they’re allowed to grow Absolutely love your vids by the way and your copious usage of air quotes
He has a big influence and was a big enough asshole as producer to count. Note, to fire a hard working woman who got fired over doing a nessesary operation, and doug had the deciding vote, is just that bad.
@ULGROTHA Tommy had a vision and maybe be questionable in terms of talent and personality but he took a shot. Doug just comments on the Hobbit and plays LONG clips of copyrighted content and is mad when copyright owners come after him. Still apples and oranges - but Doug does scream more like a girl than Tommy ever will - I will give him that
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 There is a single shot in Kickassia that is worse than anything Tommy Wiseau or Uwe Boll or whoever would ever allow. It's early on, just Doug at this guy's door talking to him, but shot so that the sun is blaring right into the camera and nobody noticed this and changed the angle or waited for a different time of day or anything.
The Nostalgia Critic's content was pretty par for the course in terms of TH-cam content circa 2006. Unfortunately, he hasn't evolved with the times or improved since then, to the point that watching both him and Channel Awesome in general is beyond cringe now.
At this point after 3 years, saying Doug is cringe is cringe, dude! Grow up, he is funny and that's why he has more than 1M sub, you not liking something immoral he did 3 years ago does not mean he is not funny
I'm glad you brought up a point about how people are not forced to work in toxic work place environments and that this is not a reason people should have to put up with it. Yes, no one is forced to work anywhere, but if something is your passion and there are only a few places to work that allow you to explore and grow that passion, or hell if you enjoy the work place because of your coworkers and friends, this does NOT mean your bosses have free reign to treat you like shit. You shouldn't have to stop doing what you love or put up with being treated like shit because " Well if you don't like it you should just leave, no one is forcing you to stay." That's the worse kind of victim blame bullshit.
This video is a quite good examination of Channel Awesome's horrid "apology", and the only true issue with the video is the lighting, as the light that shines on your hands makes the video change color on our end. Relatively speaking, that's a rather minor issue, given the quality in the rest of the video.
My wife and I used to watch Nostalgia Critic and Cinema Snob back in high school and was a staple of the beginning of our relationship and bonding and seeing all of this really is just super disheartening to hear about. But, at the same time, I’m not really surprised either.
The Jane Doe in the Google doc and the Jane Doe being talked about in the chat logs are two different people. Because Channel Awesome is a damn cesspool.
Love the way they frame their interpretations of what happend as "facts" opposite "accusations". Because, you know, framing your arguments as objective truths is such a great way to get them across, much better than giving an actual explanation. Or, you know, admit you were wrong, say sorry, and try working to be a better, more compassionate, more professional person in the future. NO, instead, Just prove you have the FACTS, which are the only real facts because you put the word "fact" in front of them. PERFECT. My favorite "fact" is definitely the one that WELL, SOME WOMEN HAD/HAVE A GOOD TIME WORKING HERE. well, problem solved, sexism fixed, clearly this cancels out the experience of other women completely! No need to improve anything. Hm or maybe the idea that you "chose to work in this place or on this project SO YOU CANNOT CRITICIZE THE WAY WE DO THINGS EVER." uh no you still have the responsibility of being professional towards the people who work with or for you. ESPECIALLY those who work for you, since they have less power than you, so it is easy to create an inconsiderate or even hostile environment where people are afraid to speak up because they will be dismissed (at best). And all of this could have been solved if they took some responsibility instead. But hey, growing and improving both on a personal and professional level, WHO WANTS THAT.
For those of you that are (like me) too lazy to read the while doc yourself, the youtuber Fredrik Knudsen did a livestream where he read the whole thing aloud, giving commentary and context along the way.
I swear to god, when you said "who likes to scream a lot" and then cut to a video of Doug screaming, an ad just cut off the first two seconds and it felt like a f-ing jumpscare. I have been scarred for life ToT (joking)
I originally got into the Nostalgia Critic years and years ago on TH-cam around the time of ThatGuyWithTheGlasses. I liked his videos for the simplicity of it all. Then somewhere along the way he decided to do bits and characters with actors and I felt it dragged down the pacing of the videos and really, in my opinion wasn't that funny. In the comments section other people mentioned Lindsay Ellis and I agree, after CA she flourished and grew and I love her video essays. As far as movie reviews go, I appreciate RLM. Jay, Mike and Rich have a very natural flow and make their videos enjoyable to watch.
Wow, I’ll admit I wasn’t expecting much, but I’m super impressed by how professional (minus the savage burn at the end) you were throughout the video. Subscribed.
i was actually a huge fan of channel awesome for years. doug and the team were my first real foray into online media criticism/comedy and video essays. the passion and good intentions behind reviews like twister and patch adams were one of the first things that genuinely inspired me to think more critically about the media i consume. several channel awesome alumni (including daren jackson, allison pregler, lindsay ellis, todd nathanson, jamie maurer, and mathew buck) continue to amaze me with their diverse and insightful content, and have influenced what i hope to be my own video essay series in the future. *that having been said* the minute doug's infamous stardust sponsorship started, i knew something was up but i couldn't quite pinpoint what. knowing now that his creativity and sincerity has completely drained and that he treated most if not all of the aforementioned content creators i love like shit while continuing to allow vile scum bags like mike michaud in on production, it's a wonder so many people claimed to not see this coming. despite my continued support for all the creators i discovered through channel awesome, i literally never want to see anything walker brothers related again.
I missed this whole story, other than watching some of Lindsays more recent content, Ive been out of the Channel Awesome loop for years now. Very interesting and reasoned coverage of events, good vid.
I've been a fan since 2010, of NC's screaming like a child and everything, and to witness how much this channel has crumbled in the past couple of weeks is pretty incredible. I don't think they can ever recover from the spectacular mess they've created for themselves, whenever it felt like things were stabilizing and there was a chance to make things right, they do this and now it's all going down the drain. Goodbye CA, it's been nice knowing ya.
It's funny to me not because they are going down, but because they had every opportunity to save themselves and blew it! I genuinely wonder if their ego is simply too inflated to admit culpability. I guess I can thank them for a few laughs, but if they think that will endear me to them enough to ignore the outspoken chorus of aggrieved content producers, many of whom I hold in higher regard than Doug walker, they are wrong.
LOL I think you mean screaming like little child. Can't lie Doug's commentary on Lango was funny. Craig Toomey (from The Langoliers): Scaring the little GIRL?! Then Doug repeats what Craig says but says it more girly. I keep thinking: Obi-Wan Kenobi : You have allowed this dark lord to twist your mind, until now, until now you've become the very thing you swore to destroy.
"...who was brought on specifically to mimic Doug Walker's style as much as possible..." -- Really? In all objective fairness, I don't think you're giving Lindsay anywhere NEAR enough credit, here; I found her style to be entirely her own, from Day One--and even on her lamest, laziest day, she still came off (and in fact, *continues* to come off) as VASTLY the intellectual/stylistic superior to anything NC-related. Keep up the good work!
But Sarah's statement here is still true. Lindsay was brought on to be a female copy of NC, and was discouraged to deviate too much from the formula. She herself doesn't like her work back then.
I seriously think Michaud just ALWAYS has to have the last word even if it makes him look foolish ALWAYS has to have the advantage even if he has to change the rules to do it So when people are talking about how incompetent he is, he just HAS to fire back
Gunkey O'Stanky I wouldn’t be surprised, especially if he never learned French. I know someone whose name is Desjardins and doesn’t speak French so he pronounces French words in an English manner.
I only saw this on reddit and I didn't verify it, but if you want you can search and do so. Apparently CA was going to add a 5th member to their administration, and the rumor goes that Brad was going to be this 5th person. I only saw this on reddit. So, many grains of salt.
My god. I followed many of these creators back in the heyday, and fell off the routine of watching vids in my spare time after I started work on my book. I come across Lindsey Ellis again, start following her content. Find a few more by proxy... I stumble upon your channel at the recommendation of the youtube algorithm (something for which I'm grateful--you do fine work) and now BAM. I suddenly get to see what’s happened to a group I had so many fond memories of watching. I'm only three quarters through the document, but I'm already feeling overwhelmed. On the plus side, now I have a list of folks I want to track down so I can support their content, now that they're free from such a horrendous working environment.
As someone who used to consistently watch NC and still watches some of the other channels (like Chris Stuckmann and Todd in the Shadows), I’m having a lot of fun watching this ship sink. It’s been a glorious disaster where a bunch of assholes are getting what was long coming to them.
Mike’s Music Reviews It really feels hollow for me though. On one hand, I'm glad they are slowly and painfully killing themselves after what they did. But on another, I'm sad that a channel that I loved. A person who I looked up to as a comedian and a critic.Turned out to be such a landfill.
On the upside though I and many others have found content producers that after going independent went on to make better and better content that I've consistently enjoyed. I mean I've watched more and more videos from former contributers, and less and less of those still on the site. This was long BEFORE the document. So it's amusing to watch the stagnating site wither and die while it's former contributers flourish.
I remember when this happened and everyone was leaving CA, whilst Larry Bundy Jr made jokes about winning the CA hunger games after Doug appeared to have removed Channel Awesome as his employer on Facebook. How they're still around making videos to this day baffles me.
This is a great overview of the grievances. I’ve been following TGWTG since the Nostalgia Chick first came on the site; it’s great to see people still thinking critically about what the site has done and what it has been
I've never even heard of Channel Awesome or Doug Walker. I just watched Emily's video and I'm working backwards from there. it's super weird to be going through all this drama in reverse order. Finding out Lindsey Ellis worked for him is fucking me up for real.
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You ever click a year old video and get re-pissed about a situation
Viktor Hernandez it’s been two years now and I’m pissed all over again
Yes...all the time
i can speak from experience: yes
TH-cam's algorithms have been busy this week reminding us about this situation.
In other news its aboutta be a year since the ProJared situation and im about to be re-pissed about that ._.
Lindsey Ellis has improved in leaps and bounds since leaving that shit show
Katharine W True of many former contributers.
Leaving seems to have been in their best interests, with full creative freedom they have flourished, while CA seems stagnant by comparison.
Yep. Being allowed to do what you want without someone taking you down because of your gender or simply because "they're the boss" really opens up room for creativity and earnestness.
Katharine W Oh definitely. It’s honestly been amazing to see her growth.
Earning a prestigious film school education and finding a far healthier group of peers will do that for people
Lindsay has become one of the best video essayists on the site since leaving that show
2018 Sarah Z: I'm a big fan of Lindsay Ellis, but I'm another random internet nobody...
2020 Sarah Z: Features as a voice over for Lindsay Ellis.
That’s some accomplishment right there.
We love to see it
so proud!
2021: Lindsay Ellis dissavowed for racist comments
EDIT: This is the original comment poster's mom, she sadly passed away due to falling into open road construction work, please do not reply to the comment unless respectfully, please do not continue the argument. Rest in Peace.
@@celebalert5616 care to elaborate? what source does this come from?
You know the "best" part of the screenshot about JewWario? That chatlog was referring to a _DIFFERENT_ Jane Doe that has emerged. I guess what Doug meant by "we've been getting complaints" is that there were not only multiple complaints, but that there were enough to get them confused with each other.
Futonrevolution How were they supposed to know which Jane Doe the document was talking about.
The point was, they got complaints and they addressed it when it was a serious and credible enough allegation to address.
Dunno about you, Bubbles, but I can tell the difference between a girl being groomed online and an unconscious woman being raped at a con.
Hi, Mr Bubble! Sorry, your private messages were disabled, but I'm just informing you that your check has been sent in the mail. Thank you for your hard work!
We sincerely regret that you didn't get paid. The check got stuck in my Sega Genesis.
Holy shit I didn't even think of that. WELL THEN, this situation has become way worse than it originally was.
I find it hilarious that Lindsay Ellis won a contest to be a female rip-off of the nostalgia critic and now her content is several tiers higher than the NCs by most measures.
I always thought the Nostalgia Chick concept was lazy and cringey and overall really lame (not Ellis' fault obviously) so its nice to see that something truly good came from one of Doug Walkers donkey brain ideas.
You could see her slowly trying to distance herself from the "NC . . . but a girl" role she was originally delegated to, and also began to stop doing full movie rants in favor of more analytical, essay like content (for which she was kind of ahead of the curve). Even after I eventually stopped watching Doug's content, I would still check in to see some of her stuff.
Fell off since then but now that she's one of the bigger video essayists I feel like i need to get back on the Lindsay train now.
@@looney1023 You should! Her latter videos are very very good, even won an Hugo Award for her documental on The Hobbit.
She also has a series in BBC (I think) about literature called "It's Lit!".
Every measure lol
I guess I have never seen her early stuff, when the girl in this video described her as "Nostalgia Critic with ovaries" , I found that weird. When it comes to most media she reviews she comes off well researched and just the right amount of snark.
This is why I want to watch all videos she's made, from the first and see how she evolves into her own character outside of Channel Awesome. - Some videos are up on a backup account on TH-cam, but a lot are missing. If there's backups somewhere outside of TH-cam, I would love to see that.
"Maybe the word 'sorry' is just harder on Doug Walker's vocal cords than 11 years of screaming." BRUH 👽👽👽
savage and delightful
omg she snapped
Channel Awesome 'Oh! You are looking for SORRY... You can find it in the Dictionary, Between SHIT and SYPHILIS... Alongside SYMPATHY'
Oooof, that’s a deep cut, I think I see marrow XD
she got it wrong, 99% of the complaints are about mike. Not Doug.
The whole "the women currently in our employ think this is fine" argument against sexist accusations pisses me off. I've seen it used so many times in so many different contexts and I really don't understand how people don't realize it's a massive conflict of interest, especially when the people making the claim do absolutely nothing to prove that women's claims of harassment and sexism do get taken seriously and don't end up punishing the women as much if not more than the men they're making complaints against. I have seen women try to speak out in the work place and get silenced, insulted, and even driven to quit in some cases.
I have a family to support. Unless I have another opportunity lined up I really can't afford to risk pissing off my employers until things get absolutely dire. And even then, I work in a field where most jobs are gotten through referrals and recommendations. If I burn too many bridges or word gets out that I complain too much or "am hard to work with"...I could effectively cut myself off from the industry. I imagine that's even more the case for these kinds of content producers since we watch them for their personalities and likability as much if not more than their actual qualifications.
"We're not racist. Our black friend says we aren't!"
"im not homophobic. once i met a gay guy and he said im ok"
"I can see you're unhappy and I have heard other complaints about this person, but I've also heard a lot of good things. I think it's just a clash of personalities."
- An actual quote from HR when I spoke out about my verbally and emotionally abusive manager (while backed up by several other people who had also fallen victim to a lesser degree).
This was before anybody else had even been spoken to, as well as before being told that they'd made up their minds that there was no evidence of sexism (which was interesting because that wasn't what I was claiming) and that, if I chose to take it further, there would be no disciplinary action, not even a caution. They'd simply tell him he'd been reported by me and "get his side of the story" (which is completely fair, except they'd just implied that they'd already decided he was innocent and kept referring to all the good things he'd done and all the people who hadn't been upset with him). So my options were:
A) Continue the report, give my abuser ammo and have nothing happen.
B) Withdraw the complaint, still be treated like crap until I leave and then be spoken to by HR like I was being over dramatic or outright lying.
Yeah, workplace harassment is handled like a joke sometimes.
@Medjai K More like virtually all cases.
HR departments represent the employer's interests. That's who is paying them. Their job is to make sure the company's interests are covered in situations involving relations with employees.
That's it.
Representation of the employee's interests is what unions are for. (Union reps get paid by employees, via union dues, so that's who they work for.)
If you aren't in a union, it's pretty much you against the world.
one notable thing is Malcolm and Tamara are within the "inner circle" of CA in that they were paid actors (so actually paid a wage) brought on to aid in Dougs show, so their experience is going to be WILDLY different from the actual content producers...
91Vault True
They as direct employees who work with Doug, don't likely have to put up with being ignored by management for example, and as employees have more legal standing with which to raise a complaint if they were mistreated, and management knows that so they play nice
They aren't paid, they are "paid" in exposure.
@@MrParkerman6 No Malcolm and Tamara are actually payed a real wage.
I still feel bad for Tamara. She's clearly a lot more talented than the material that Doug gives her.
@@mikeyjamieson4715 lol no she isn't
To me, the "vindictive former employee" trope just seems like one of the many ways in which companies or institutions try to pin the blame for a fallout of a business relationship onto the individual, rather than acknowledging a larger-scale, systemic issue that they're responsible for.
Employee gets exploited / taken advantage of at their job - decides to quit and tells off their former manager/boss
Company: "vindictive former employee!"
Me: omg I hated working in fast food. It was shitty pay, hard work, and the customers were so rude.
CA probably: is this or is this NOT a picture of you smiling while handing someone a Happy Meal?!?! Liar!
Good analogy actually.
They got you there, phony!! :p
speed0spank actually that kind of shit happens in real courtrooms to shows someone’s character to a jury
But your smiling at the work place and doing your job. A better analogy is going home and posting a vid saying how awesome working at McDonald’s is.
dusk1234567890 Or getting filmed in an ad for your company
I’ve seen some people say “They chose to work with him, so they can’t complain!” Or “My job sucks too, they should get over it!”
Like, I’ve volunteered my time with several different groups that were never making any sort of profit, and they STILL served refreshments. Just cus you choose to stay doesn’t mean they don’t owe you the smallest of dignities. If you’re volunteer group doesn’t provide you with refreshments and they last over several hours, unless they tell you beforehand that they can’t get any (which I haven’t really seen any professional volunteer groups do) it’s the most professional thing for them to do.
Also, if you’re job sucks, that doesn’t make it ok. Your job SHOULDNT treat you badly. I can understand not standing up for yourself at work without risking getting fired. But just cus your job treats you badly doesn’t mean that your job is SUPPOSED to treat you badly.
But it goes both ways. Do you honestly think people went to work for CA and/or Doug because they like them? They wanted fame and money too but didn't realize they were dancing with the devil. Lindsey is in business as much as Doug. CA should've treated their people better but it is business at the end of day for everyone
Chan Thorpe
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding your comment, but the problem was that they weren’t acting like a professional business. They were firing people left and right for disproportionate things, not providing basic refreshments for several hour long shootings, and a variety of other issues. Also, many of the people were friends with Doug, and even if they wanted to get more famous on TH-cam, they were willing to volunteer long hours for his various movies, and accommodated quite a lot to satisfy CA’s standards, and CA still didn’t provide them with the basics. Just because the TH-camrs involved got out physically unscathed and went on to have good careers after doesn’t mean it was ok for CA to treat them with such blatant disrespect for their time and health.
And even if they were just in it for money, does that mean that CA is allowed to neglect its workers and jeopardize their health, among all the other things they did?
@@gregjayonnaise8314 Oh no you misread my point. Horribly I agree with most of what you say. HOWEVER I do think it prudent to not paint the victims as overly altruistic. Doug acted badly as did CA but as YT person myself its a brutal bargain - Doug had the brand name and used it - Why do you think these people wanted to work for CA?
Because they liked Doug? I doubt it. Blame mostly goes on one side no doubt. But they had some idea of what they were getting into.
Chan Thorpe Chan Thorpe
I understand your point, thanks for clarifying. I don’t necessarily think that the people who worked for him were saints or anything, but ultimately, my main point was that CA is primarily to blame for virtually all of the issues that occurred due to their insane lack of professionalism. Even if the volunteers knew CA was bizarrely run, I’m sure that none of them could have predicted that things would be THIS hectic. And even if they did, the fault is still on CA for being so unprofessional, not on the volunteers who couldn’t see the warning signs.
Picture a volunteer going into a business that is known for abusing their workers. The volunteer knows this and goes anyway. If they get abused, does that make their abuse legal? Perhaps if they signed a contract explicitly stating that they consented to it, but otherwise, no.
Let’s say that every volunteer went into CA with money and fame as their only goal. Even if they were doing it for completely selfish reasons, as long as they do their jobs, they must be treated with the dignity that any business would give their volunteers. And ultimately, the lack of professionalism was on CA’s behalf, since their the business that hired them all in the first place. So I still remain on the sides of the youtubers who spoke out against CA.
@@gregjayonnaise8314 100 percent agree. Even if people at CA were just in it for the money they did their work and were treated terribly. CA messed up and messed up bad
No disagreement really between us. My only thing is that while CA is 90 percent wrong here we shouldn't be too naive.
Lind wants fame as much as Doug. But she's talented and her following shows that.
Doug himself is difficult. Yes he signed a contract but looking the other way is not acceptable. He could have done more. Didn't think he was a good critic but never thought he was a bad person. He's now a big question mark and will be for awhile.
Be good and keep safe Spidey LOL
The pattern of misogyny and assault is the worst thing about this, especially since so many people are being so dismissive about it. And, thank you for the part about working conditions. I keep seeing people saying, "My job sucks too, so get over it." or "Well, they're the ones who wanted to work there."
What’s all the more telling is how as time as gone on.... male former producers who.... shall we say, lean to the gamergate side of the pie.... have come out and said how they never experienced _any_ of this and that the management was just the nicest and the best to them.
I. Can’t. Imagine. Why.
That is because there is no evidence and you cant except people to believe them when they came out years later after the so called crime is out. Plus with recent false rape allegations like mattress girl, most of bill cosby's accusers, Uva hoax,duke lacrosse and the list goes on. If I was Channel Awesome I would get my lawyers ready and start demanding all these people and sue them into the stone age. Then in the future then i would record and store everything that has to do with interactions with channel awesome staff.
Alicia I think we can all say that OUR JOBS SUCK at some point or another... So should they get over it? Well, NO!
I feel what people forget about all this is that Channel Awesome is NOT A JOB! It is a BUSINESS...
No-one in that complaint WAS EVER AN EMPLOYEE!!! Had they have been Employees, They would have had RIGHTS!
Why do people think that Channel Awesome have sat on this for SO DAMN LONG.... It bloody obvious... With each and every person being a 'Contributor' - With NO EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS INVOLVED... Legally, Channel Awesome has 'Theoretically' no reason to act... 'Theoretically' they have actually broken NO LAWS... Either UK, International or Federal US...
Note that I said 'Theoretically'... If Mike Michaud is not careful about how he handles this... And if this blows up any further... This may be his THIRD BANKRUPT COMPANY... As despite the fact the producers Volunteered content... Despite the fact they were NOT actually contracted Employees... There is a VERY, VERY HIGH CHANCE of a Legal Challenge and Channel Awesome COULD INDEED LOSE!
The only reason it has not yet gone down that route in my view, Not only as it would cost all the participants a damn fortune... But many of teh former producers DON'T ACTUALLY WANT THAT!!! They just want them to be a BETTER COMPANY!
DoggySporty I am a Channel Awesome Fan... Still even now a Subscriber... But will I defend them? HOLY FUCK NO!!!! In fact, Follow me on Twitter and later today I will drop my version of what this 'Response' should have been so you can see that even us fans are MORE INTELLIGENT than their management!!!
They may choose to ignore fan concerns, BUT WE ARE THE CONSUMERS OF THEIR CONTENT - WITHOUT US, THEY HAVE NO F**KING BUSINESS!!! They need to remember that!
Pretty typical American responses. Capitalism teaches people to be shitty to each other like that.
The most stupid thing about all this is because these allegations are referring to things done years ago Channel Awesome could have just sent out the vaguest most insincere apology of 'we made mistakes, we were a young company trying to find our footing, we're very sorry, we're doing better now' and that would have literally been enough for most people.
+Rebecca Clark
Ms. Clark I second that notion. All Micaude and Co. had to do is say "we made mistakes, we were a young company trying to find our footing, we're very sorry, we're doing better now" but they've made matters worst... After seeing this video, I now see why JewWario's corpse is dragged into this madness... I'm glad I was never hired by those idiots. Micaude clearly has no clue how to run a business and it was going to crumble as a result eventually.
Rebecca Clark that would have been a better response
It's such a basic response any person with a functional brain could come up with it. SO WHY DIDNT THEY?!?!
A Ninja Ego maybe? Perhaps they genuinely believed they had the clout to ride it out?
I'm reading into their screen performance a lot but the Walkers seem to have quite a high opinion of themselves, those behind the cameras I'm not sure on.
Perhaps they had it in there heads that they were above reproach.
Channel Awful had an HR person named Holly. I wonder what happened with her, on wait they fired her.
ughhhhhhhhhhhhfuck having JewWario being revealed to have been the groomer is just....really painful. I was so incredibly sad when he died. I definitely understand why Jane Doe wanted to keep his identity secret, calling out a man who did not die too long ago tend to bring more anger from fans than usual.
these kind of situations bring out really uncomfortable and conflicting feelings in general
I read about the accusations years ago and I never even watched Jewario. This was all kind of public knowledge. Just not widely known, I guess.
About all of it is public knowledge. Channel awesome is (or was) a conglomerate of fuck ups.
Yea, I remember at the time his reputation was such that doesn't seem to have been taken seriously. I vaguely remember hearing about the '13 issues framed in the context of a 'crazy fan ruining reputations' etc
TindraSan
I'm sorry.. Am I missing something here?
Everyone is talking about this as if all of those accusations are fact.
I've read (I think) all information available about this situation, and it appears to me that this whole mess is based on the testimony of one anon.
After that a bunch of former ca contributors "confirmed" that the Person in question told them her story...
Why again am I supposed to believe baseless accusations, never made public before, never brought up to the authorities?
Don't get me wrong, Justin might very well have been a rapist. I didn't know him, wasn't huge fan of his work either, but for all we know he might just have cheated on his wife with a stupid fangirl and she regretted it later.
Is that really how we want to treat rape accusations?
Guilty unless proven innocent?
@Squirrelknight Unfortunately that is the climate we live in these days, where the mere accusation without evidence, without proof is enough to ruin someone's reputation. If you ask someone for evidence to support their claim then you are yelled at for being a "victim blamer". Due process is thrown out of the window these days because of social media and the public at large, you can be roasted and destroyed without ever setting foot in a court room.
Things that Doug Walker has apologized for: Not putting Optimus Prime's death on a saddest nostalgic moments video. A bad let's play of Bart's Nightmare. Getting some actors names wrong.
Things he hasn't apologized for: Not paying his actors to help him film his crappy movies. Firing producers for unfair reasons. Covering up rape and grooming allegations.
can't forget that time doug apologized in character as the critic for things that he did to a bunch of his fictional characters in one of his shitty movies, but couldn't bring himself to even say say a simple sorry to any of the people he worked with and for all the stuff he did in real life.
Mentally abusing his co-workers
Let’s not forget he has a grudge with the Wachowskis, regarding to their personal lives.
He made a bad joke about it in Jupiter Ascending…
You forgot the part about him shitting over Pink Floyd’s music and style with his “mAsTeRpIeCe” of a “review.”
@@evanbarth7173
Do you really think that's as bad as covering up rape allegations? It was a bad video/album, but he really doesn't need to apologise for that.
Its amazing how Channel Awesome managed to "accidentally" give us every clue, including the dates he was fired, to work out out exactly who the previously redacted groomer was while still claiming to be protecting privacy. So that now rather than the initial complaint which was against them about wanton neglect, mismanagement and disregard of accusations of grooming/assualt on their part (while respecting the wishes of anonymous individuals who didnt want everything dragged out)... The entire conversation and responsibility has been moved to discussing the actions a guy long dead and I dont want to say easy target because he was deffinatly the one at fault, but lets use the words... Convieniantly silent decoy. So that in the meantime the enablers and previous centre of criticism, Channel "I told him not to do this again" Awesome moves quietly towards the door.
problem is now everybody thinks they covered up for a rapist, that won't just go away
Honestly, based on the accusations made against CA, I find incompetence to be a far more likely explanation.
It wasnt incompetence, they purposefully outed Wario and tried to make it look like an accident to cover their asses.
I imagine it was also an extremely difficult time for for all the friends of JW too. I remember how shocked and heartbroken the former CW producers were at his passing. To learn the kind of monster he was must be like losing him all over again.
Even if the "vindictive former employee" claim was true, great places to work generally don't get so many so vindictive employees.
As a guy who idolized Doug for years and whose work inspired me and even helped me in some of my film classes this infuriated me to the core
when i was in high school i absolutely loved the nostalgia critic. it's sad to see all this happening.
This CA controversy is becoming the new why I left buzzfeed
i mean enough people left channel awesome for 'why i left ca' to be a genre of its own lmao. they have what, 3 producers left?
Sarah Z yes and one is just there to be a troll
Taking bets, who's going to be last one standing and will they leave before the site shuts down?
Theodore mastermind which one is the troll?
@@Hayden_Cat It was Guru Larry.
As sad as I was when JewWario took his life, beforehand I was put off by him. He creeped me out. I was cosplaying Panty from PSG when I was at a convention summer of 2013. My sister and I ran up to him starstruck to grab another picture(we met him the day before with some friends.) He took 3 pictures with me. One for me, one for his group( I can't remember what it was called. They covered cons.) and one for him. It alerted me, only due to my mother giving me uber-duber stranger danger paranoia. Later when I followed gim on Tumblr, I never found the picture. He had posted so many of his personal con photos but not mine. I didn't think to ask. Over time I found his tumblr content to be questionable and for whatever reason, I felt compelled to unfollow him. I had forgotten about it until his death. I remember feeling bad and a little guilty because he was dead now. I now know that my feelings were right were right. I feel weird posting this, but this all just occurred to me and I need to talk about it.
@oktopustrainer he took pictures of her for the Express purpose of putting them on his tumblr. Then didn't. He lied to her ab why he took photos of her.
Jimmy Savile would be proud
isnt it kinda scummy to bring out all this information pretty much destroy his name... while the guy is dead and cant defend himself anymore..its one thing to be angry but other thing is, destroy somebody life with only your side of the story its kinda scummy at this point bringing stuff up that happened years ago, thats same thing as what is happening to michael jackson even tho he got equated from his child rape cases, and the guy has been dead for years to... whats the point of proving it so you can stab somebody loved one in the back to.
@@coolegiel120 The dead shouldn't get away with keeping secrets. The truth should always come out eventually.
@@MxPokirby How do you know that its truth..like i said you cant accuse a person that is dead because he has no way of defending himself from the grave and with weak evidence... its just spitting on his family because they get backlash.
"Maybe the word 'sorry' is just harder on Doug Walkers vocal chords than 11 years of non-stop screaming."
Sick burn.
Mary lol you rated your own burn
@@noobtuber9037 no
I mean... Cinnemasacre had a producer leak dick pics and still came out on top of channel awesome! They even got themselves an AVGN Movie lol
@@MetroidKing790 so what? How many pics are there of naked actresses?
This is the third or fourth video of yours I've watched and I just wanted to say your commentary is incredibly thorough, articulate, and insightful. This is extremely standout work in the field of this kind of channel at least in my experience. Thank you for the insight and keep up the great work!
The fact that Doug Walker just pretended that none of this went on and is still making videos like nothing happened is appalling.
It was the only smart thing they did. They clearly did not think they needed to apologize. Frankly, if they had just apologized anyway it would have blown over a lot faster. But if they didn't want to give everyone the answer they wanted the smart thing to do was not reply and wait for it to blow over.
It wasn't his fault!!!!! It was his professional obligation to continue with the videos!!!!!!!
That’s a lot of exclamation points my dude
@@twilight3272 that's a lot of inane comments!
I'm going to bet because half of this stuff is exaggerated and a lot of it is made up
The sad tale of Channel Awesome’s demise is one that reeks of Shakespearean irony. This all started with Doug, and now, it ends with Doug. All because at the end of day, it’s better to defend a heartless sociopath, rather than admit wrongdoing.
That makes him a sad and interesting character to dissect. He is still an active accomplice in the whole thing. And his vote for firing holly is just horrible.
D O U G A N D O N L Y D O U G
I remember when he quit his 9-5 and acknowledge he burned several bridges. Prolly an understatement in hindsight, and that probably won't look so hot when he inevitably needs to get a second job to supplement his income.
I'm literally crying hearing people say this about ma boi. The worst part is that it's true. Ma boi bad ;-;
Push even if he said sorry and tried to be better, so some "its too late" "the damage been done" well fuck
I appreciate Sarah's logic, moderate tone, brevity, and coherency. (Dare I say Lindsay Ellis-esque?) Too much of the commentary on the issue is loud, curse ridden, overlong and emotion driven. I suspect CAs lack of a real apology had to do with fear that a real apology could be used as evidence in future litigation. Sadly, Doug failed to issue a statement along the lines of : "Based on these serious charges in this controversy, we are reviewing our HR, employee relations and safety practices." Issuing a (weak) rebuttal was the dumbest thing that could have done.
Further, it is very disappointing that Doug went along with his "joke" despite major misgivings from both Lindsay Ellis AND Linkara. Common sense should have told him that when two of his most intelligent and circumspect reviewers having similar complaints, it was probably a sign he should have changed the scene.
I hope the management have learned a lesson...losing most of their talent and 20k viewers, becoming the targets of a massive campaign against them...is a hefty price to pay. But, I do believe in redemption, so I remain hopeful that they will grow from this experience.
Same I still enjoy there content and I hope the move past this because low-key this shit was heart breaking when I heard it and to add fire to the flames this came out during the Logan Paul and other TH-cam drama B.S so it’s just sad to hear a company that you loved for years and cherished comes out about this. All and all I hope they recover from this and learn better in the future. ( sorry I literally repeated what you said but yeah I just agree ok bye :)
CA just posted a nostalgia critic review on their youtube channel, and people in the comments are defending doug, acting like he's completely innocent in all this, this may not be all doug's fault, but the fact that he just stood by and let michaud treat content creators like crap, and the fact that he's done nothing to address any of this makes him just as guilty
It's called surviving and paying the bills. CA is Dougs Employer. There are a lot of businesses that do shitty things to employees..but most of the other employees shut up to keep their job. Besides..the other creators are grown ass adults..no one held a gun to their heads to stay working there.
neoasura - I don't think so. I mean, Doug was exactly the one and only person who Mike and Rob could not touch, because he IS the brand they put everything on. Doug is their black horse, their trump card, their ace in the sleeve; they gave him everything, shitting on everyone else, to put him in the spotlight even more. They wouldn't dare to touch him, because they threw too many resources at him already. If there is one person who could stand up to them, that person was Doug. He could speak on the behalf of the other creators. He could convince Rob or Mike to stop screwing around and start to listen to other people. He could HELP many employees of CA by addressing their issues and trying to enforce some change. And he sat there, with both thumbs up his crusty, bearded asshole, and did exactly nothing.
At this point, I hope that Channel Awesome will die screaming, and when this happens, Doug will perish with the rest of those soulless excuses for human beings. He is no victim. He is one of them.
...Which is why they all left. Point is, whether Doug wants to admit it or not, he has a lot of influence so don't act like he was just some lower level desk jockey. Do you really think CA would survive if Doug left? Before the mass exodus I mean. People are saying that Doug is complicit because he did nothing to stop these practices when he could have. Don't get me wrong. I get it. If you're making bank with the current status quo, you're not gonna want to mess with it. Still a pretty shitty thing to let all that stuff happen the way it did though.
EX7Sonic i found odd is that joke with trump and putin he has but in reality hes a puppet to mike
And yall lot act like this is all bloody news. Do you ever wondered HOW CA came to be? It was created because Doug was afraid to take responsibility, and sold IP rights to the first dude who had the balls to take it. Thats Dougs character - extreme doormat. Man didnt even had the balls to say Linkara (of all people) to fuck off when he was acting like a giant moron. It ended well (and rather funny) thankfully, but doesnt that paints the character?
I find it really scummy that Michaud NAMED the women who said that they didn’t feel harrassed. Oh yeah good, why don’t you paint a bullseye on them and give them a sign that says “DOX ME,” why don’t you?
I don’t know how many were adamantly defending him, but if I were one of those actors, I would not want my full name attached. Cause say I didn’t feel harassed, but still strongly disagreed with how Michaud ran the company. Him putting my full name down makes it seem like I fully support him, which in turn opens me up to online harassment. (PS: please don’t harass anybody. call them out for backing up a cock, but do not harass them.)
And the the thing is, of course they're gonna treat the paid talent with more respect than the unpaid people. If they treated Malcolm and Tamara the same way they did the other CA producers, there'd be lawsuits up the ass.
that last zinger tho
She didnt have to go that hard but I'm so glad she did
The Z in Sarah Z is for Zinger
Good think about Channel Awesome: It helped me discover Lindsey Ellis. I watch and enjoy her to this day.
every single rebuttal is just "but like.... we were cooperative and nice these cherrypicked times, that means we have never done anything wrong in our entire lives!"
Channel Awesome struck me as a teenager as a lame manchild nerdy and skin deep provider of what can generously be described as content. As a full on adult it's pretty neat to be vindicated. Also now that Lindsay is doing her own stuff she's shown how brilliant she's always been but was hampered by talentless hacks.
I agree. I liked it back in the day, but that had more to do with the occasionally insightful joke or comment you could find after sifting through the garbage.
Lindsey Ellis makes way - - way better content then Channel Awesome. She’s fantastic as a creator, her essays are so thought provoking and (in a way) enlightening. I always learn something new, it can be informative or even influential, She’s good at explaining the agenda of which-ever trivial influences we have come to know - and have known for years, then she outlines so concisely. So not only can she inform us, she can also entertain us. She’s got a ‘cool-chick’ personality that makes her (on top of being well informed) really agreeable! Yeah she’s a top tier channel.👌
Of course Tamara would be treated well. She's part of the Nostalgia Critic IP. Michaud only cares about people who make him money, and of course being part of an IP that he owns, she's going to do just that, thus he has an incentive to play nice. Same with Malcolm. I saw him make a comment that Michaud was better than he was back when all this drama happened, but I suspect he just never saw this side of him due to the same fact that he's part of the Nostalgia Critic IP.
I've been on some pretty shitty sets, but 18 hours with no crafty sounds like hell on earth. Most sets can't stand up for 1 hour without crafty. Great video as always.
I know, Lyndsey complained to Doug, but he just brushed it off like a joke. Channel Awesome makes how much money? And they can't even feed em some basic food and some bottled water? Duh Fuq?
Yes but its a LAW. Only microbudget films are not forced to pay for certain things.
Lindsey Ellis climbed out of the fire with platinum quality content
lmao yea shes the only one i still watch from those days. the cream rises to the top i guess
channel awesome: sure our work environment was garbage, but it's LEGAL garbage
sarah z: ok, but that's not any better. you see how that's not any better, right??
Funny that out of the entire document Channel Awesome only attempt to refute (and by refute I mean confront by name in a very agressive way) the claims made by a select number of contributers from the documet (and by select I mean only female or the one male who reported harassment)
One of the claims of the doc: "Men who stood up for themselves were ignored; women who stood up for themselves were disregarded or treated as troublemakers."
Channel Awesome: "That's ridiculous! That didn't happen! To prove it, here's a refutation where we ignore the men who stood up for themselves and imply that the women were liars and troublemakers!"
Right? Lindsay and Linkara both mentioned the uncomfortable rape jokes and they """""""disproved"""""" the claim by attempting to discredit Lindsay.
Edit: oh, haha. She just said it 😜
In regards to the JewWario revelation, I only saw JewWario's "You're not stupid" video, and agreed with him on the notion of valuing one's self more, but I obviously don't condone any bad acts JewWario was said to have done. I hope the victims completely recover and also hope people don't use this as an excuse to justify "Why suicide is good." I really don't think this should be used as an opportunity to attack people, but to help each other up.
The whole situation is so screwed up that I don't think many people will. Most folks are decent human beings.
Didn't you already comment this almost word for word on another video?
Maybe. ;)
In every video about CA and Jewwario...
I just saw that exact comment from the last video, Thanks, that I was crazy
I'm so glad The Dom got out of there, now hes dominic noble now, (he realized the obvious innuendo) and you should watch him if you like books or movies or just like listening to a guy who sounds smart and sarcastic
Wait, he's from CA? I only started watching him this year but his content is WAY better than anything I would associate with that trash heap. The way he talks about books like 50 shades and other abusive/predatory literature and how it's cheap shock value and damaging would make me think he'd never have anything to do with CA's style of content.
@@FullMoonOctober His girlfriend Calluna used to work for them, too.
I love his show. Great that he broke free.
Nice video.
What also gets me is actor Malcolm Ray. The former producers have all said "Please don't go after current CA members," but Malcolm - in all his "infinite" wisdom - has taken a vehement pro-CA stance and painted his bosses as the victims. He honestly thinks CA's two horrendous statements should have put the matter to rest, but they didn't because, y'know, they sucked. I'm glad to have not been on Twitter since Aug. '16, but looking at him ACTIVELY engage Tweeters with his "CA are the real victims" and "they already apologized" tweets (that Michael Jackson photo was the worst) is beyond sad.
Tamara keeps RT'ing Malcolm and CA's statements with ❤ emojis, but hasn't made any statements herself... yet (she keeps saying "video coming"). Both she and Walter Banasiak have officially said "I stand by CA".
Anyway, yesterday saw the departure of Brad Jones, ERod, and BattleGeekPlus. The site's official homepage no longer bothers to update, and message boards have devolved into a mod-free wasteland of doxxing one another, rape jokes, and explicit images of violence and porn (seriously, DO NOT go there😨). And to think: at least some (not all) of it could have been prevented if someone had given a sincere apology.
Too bad CA's 10th year is also its last.
Wow. I'm incredibly disappointed in Malcolm and Tamara. I loved those two, but now that I see your comment I know it's not just Tamara sticking up for CA.
Really? Dang...I have to be honest, I expected better from Walter, Malcolm, and Tamara. This whole situation is just awful on so many levels.
Yeah the situation with those three really sucks. It seems to me that they’re stuck in this rough situation where the bosses they love having are coming under a huge amount of fire, so I really don’t know what I would do in that situation. I don’t follow Malcolm on twitter but wow the “they already apologized” comment is way too much because anyone with a brain can tell that it’s a non apology.
Ughhh I hate it because I love Tamara so much! I was hoping that she would be one of the ones to jump ship so I could continue supporting her, but that’s not how it’s looking.
I can see Doug and rob being assholes irl but Tamara, Malcolm, and Walter all seemed so genuine! 😔
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, I wouldn't be too hard on them. Doug and Rob are their friends/bosses and they've known them for years. The former producers for CA are complete strangers to them. If I heard people I know nothing about accuse my friends of abuse, assault, etc. out of the blue, I don't know what I would believe.
Paul Robertson It's not accurate to say all the former producers are "strangers" to them. In particular, Linkara, Beth Elderkin, Brad Jones, and a few others on the document have been working with Malcolm and Tamara since Doug hired them. (Tamara's in the current storyline on Linkara's show.)
For me, the problem with Malcolm & Tamara is two-fold: 1 - they're entitled yo their opinions, but Malcolm's outright dismissal of the former producers and hyperbolic (re-)interpretation of the CA statements is problematic; and 2 - why the hell is Malcolm speaking more than the actual CA higher-ups?!
SomeJerkWithACamera left when he said he didn't want to sound like CA's spokesman, but neither he, Malcolm, or anyone else should have that problem - CA should make statements (ones that aren't terrible) and put THEIR names on them, even if it's Michaud.
The one person who ABSOLUTELY HAS TO SPEAK is Doug. Ownership of NC or no, he's the literal and figurative face of the company. He's probably on a short leash by Michaud, but the lack of an ofgicial statement by him really makes things worse.
"Maybe the word sorry is harder on Doug Waker's vocal chords than 11 years of non-stop screaming" OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT.
The part that annoyed me most from the first response is where they say they are open to constructive criticism, but constructive criticism without a productive end does nothing to help either party. Calling serious allegations "criticisms" is really insulting in my opinion. It just serves to downplay the seriousness of some of the allegations towards them. Them saying these "criticisms" would have no productive end is especially egregious as the "productive end" should be obvious. They allegedly had some bad business practices in the past, and they should move to rectify that.
The second response is where I felt this situation had become irreparable. Before, I thought that Channel Awesome might have been able to recover if they had handled the situation with as much gravity as it deserved, but that response proved they had no intentions of taking it seriously. I agree with everything you said, and I feel there are some points I could add as well.
The first paragraph where they say "address the lies that have been alleged by multiple disgruntled individuals with vindictive intentions" shows how inept they are at PR management. Even if you are in the right, and have proof, you're not going to get any points by personally attacking the people making the allegations.
The second paragraph where they say they try to keep dealings with their contributers private but this document forced them to respond comes across as victim-blaming. As if to say "we were going to take the high road but these people have forced us to reveal negative things about them". Channel Awesome doesn't seem to realise they are viewed as the bad guys by the majority of people. Even if they are in the right, they cannot afford to act like they are before even proving anything.
I like the fact they couldn't even be bothered to get actual statements from the female employees saying how great the working conditions were. It's just "well we weren't awful to every female we encountered so that's good enough, right?"
Lastly, it's a minor thing but them bringing up how they donate to charity is a bit sleazy. As if to say "come on guys, we're not so bad. We donate to charity".
The sad thing is, most of the people involved in the initial document only wanted an apology and acknowledgement of what transpired. They weren't looking for Channel Awesome to shut down or something horrible to happen to the Walkers; they just wanted some closure on the matter. Not only has Channel Awesome denied them this, they've made the whole situation worse as far as I'm concerned.
PhalanxKnight Seems to me that they had such an inflated ego they genuinely thought that they would be seen as in the right.
I don't think they realise that many fans of CA are also fans of former contributers, and many of us when confronted by the allegations were more inclined to side with those former contributers.
Where perhaps CA thought they would have a loyal fan base, they failed to realise they were facing an uphill fight to save their image as we naturally started to scrutinise their every move.
Funny, I look at the disaster that is how CA has dealt with this, and it makes me think of everything that was going on at Screen Junkies last October, and how differently the two company’s dealt with their situations. The CA situation didn’t seem that bad at first until they made their first tone deaf response, pouring gasoline on what had been a relatively small fire, seemingly only taking further action when those watching are wondering how it could get worse. By contrast, Screen Junkies took the opposite path. They had a huge outcry right off the bat when Andy’s actions came to light, but they actually dealt with it and eventually came out of it even stronger. Even if they didn’t mean it, it’s surprising they didn’t take a similar path based on how well it worked(kinda fits with the “mismanagement” claims against them. There are examples of what does and doesn’t work in these situations, and they still went ahead with the “we’re right. It’s everyone else that’s the problem” approach).
It’s even more ridiculous when you remember that the Screen Junkies controversy came half a year before the CA controversy. They had the framework for how to handle it laid out right in front of them, and they still fucked it up
what happened with Screen Junkies?
The Abortion also how did they handle the situation? I'm quite interested
Basically, one of the founders of screen junkies(the guys who make “Honest Trailers” on TH-cam) Andy Signore came under fire when word about multiple sexual harassment claims became public knowledge, the worst being an incident where a female contributor was threatened that her boyfriend(who was an audio engineer at the company) would be fired if she made a big deal about it. What got people really riled up is that these claims were brought to HR months earlier, and nothing was done until things went public(which happened when two of the victims realized they weren’t alone and there were multiple victims). Andy was fired, and after a two week break in videos, a video came out with several of the more well known remaining hosts and writers discussing what had been going on the last couple weeks behind the scenes. Basically they got together and told corporate of all the changes that would be needed before they would consider continuing to work there(the video should still be out there. Search for “what happened, what’s next” with screen junkies to watch). Bringing in outside third party assistance with an future HR issues, and a code of conduct for employees to follow. They also had a frank discussion with viewers about concerns and suggestions for improvements.
Hope that helps explain the situation.
Some Schmuck on TH-cam damn that's really great of them
This was very eloquent and concise for how much it covers. I can't believe how many people are crawling out of the woodwork that still blame Lupa for Spoony sucking. They never let it go.
MeatyMeatyMooo Yeah. Even when Spoony himself doesn't really seem to harbor any ill will. People love to beat up on Alison.
One blogger made a video about this situation in which he mixed Lupa and Nostalgia Chick, saying he never liked her. People just gonna blame who they wanna blame.
You've only been making videos for a month, you said? This is the only one of yours I've watched, and I'm really impressed! Your production values are good, you're very articulate, and very reasonable. I liked that you went out of your way to explain stuff like burden of proof but then address why that doesn't apply. You weren't just another screaming mouth in the void, you actually contributed something. And you've only been making videos for a little while? Good job!
quick comment on production, I recommend turning auto white balance off on your next video since every time your hand enters the sunlight your camera freaks out and messes up your WB really bad.
Here's a tip depending on your set up, auto white balance can be useful for finding the correct balance, and then you switch it to manual from there so it doesnt keep changing for you.
Great content though. Your commentary and explanation are on point.
I scrolled comments to find this one.
I know this comment is a year old, but seeing legitimately constructive criticism on the internet is always really great.
There's one point that REALLY irritates me that I haven't heard many point out. In their "response" they state "Obviously, we cannot address all 73 plus pages of accusations against us in this forum, but we will address the most egregious now." and one of the points that is apparently something to be aggrieved about is "ACCUSATION - The document talks about the drop in traffic to the site". As I've stated in a couple of videos on this but haven't had picked up on yet, what... in fuck... does that have to do with the most serious of the accusations levied against you? Who gives a shit about site traffic when it comes to accusations of sexual abuse? I think you'd be more worried about that than puffing your chest out and talking about site traffic as a personally egregious claim against your crappy company. What, you just couldn't help but get in a "look how great we are" statement that should somehow absolve you of serious issues? Not only was the entire "response" laughable, but that statement was an absolute slap in the face.
Strathaczar
I think the reason why they wrote it like that was to make the accusations seem less serious. If they say that they’re addressing the most serious ones, and then pick out the one to do with drop in traffic, people will think that the accusations aren’t about anything very serious. Of course, they didn’t account for all the videos made on it.
Casual viewers, hell, I was a huge Channel Awesome fan until this shit started happening. I had an inkling that something was wrong once the folks like Lindsay, Kyle and Rantasmo started bailing to form Chez A. What that wrong thing was, I was wrong about it. I thought it might be Channel Awesome wanting to move more towards "anti-SJW" bro-friendly, less intellectual content, and, I wasn't exactly...wrong? But the gory details were really insane.
Its terrible how long they’ve managed to get away with treating their employees like this. CA’s response to this is also really worrying- when you ignore issues like these they’re allowed to grow
Absolutely love your vids by the way and your copious usage of air quotes
cant help but love the irony, dough trashes tommy wiseau but ends up doing the same shit with his own company.
It isn't Doug's company.
He has a big influence and was a big enough asshole as producer to count. Note, to fire a hard working woman who got fired over doing a nessesary operation, and doug had the deciding vote, is just that bad.
@ULGROTHA Tommy had a vision and maybe be questionable in terms of talent and personality but he took a shot. Doug just comments on the Hobbit and plays LONG clips of copyrighted content and is mad when copyright owners come after him. Still apples and oranges - but Doug does scream more like a girl than Tommy ever will - I will give him that
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 There is a single shot in Kickassia that is worse than anything Tommy Wiseau or Uwe Boll or whoever would ever allow. It's early on, just Doug at this guy's door talking to him, but shot so that the sun is blaring right into the camera and nobody noticed this and changed the angle or waited for a different time of day or anything.
Nostalgia Critic always gave me bad vibes... But I assumed it was just character acting and he was a good guy, guess not :/
Chester Bum. "Oh my God! This is the greatest apology I have ever seen in my life!"
The Nostalgia Critic's content was pretty par for the course in terms of TH-cam content circa 2006. Unfortunately, he hasn't evolved with the times or improved since then, to the point that watching both him and Channel Awesome in general is beyond cringe now.
At this point after 3 years, saying Doug is cringe is cringe, dude! Grow up, he is funny and that's why he has more than 1M sub, you not liking something immoral he did 3 years ago does not mean he is not funny
Eyyyyyyy I was hoping you'd make a video about this, thanks
How did you mention diggin themselves deeper so many times without ever saying "*Doug* themselves deeper".
these levels of self-restraint should not be humanly possible.
seconds before the end, she did say it :)
The misogyny and ignorance from those in charge is absurd. Channel Awesome is dead. Anyway, nice video Sarah Z. Love your hair ;)
It isn't dead, it's just as sick as you can get without actually dying.
It's still around
@@AlexCab_49 *the theme from Doug Walkers *The Wall* intensifies*
I'm glad you brought up a point about how people are not forced to work in toxic work place environments and that this is not a reason people should have to put up with it. Yes, no one is forced to work anywhere, but if something is your passion and there are only a few places to work that allow you to explore and grow that passion, or hell if you enjoy the work place because of your coworkers and friends, this does NOT mean your bosses have free reign to treat you like shit. You shouldn't have to stop doing what you love or put up with being treated like shit because " Well if you don't like it you should just leave, no one is forcing you to stay." That's the worse kind of victim blame bullshit.
This video is a quite good examination of Channel Awesome's horrid "apology", and the only true issue with the video is the lighting, as the light that shines on your hands makes the video change color on our end.
Relatively speaking, that's a rather minor issue, given the quality in the rest of the video.
My wife and I used to watch Nostalgia Critic and Cinema Snob back in high school and was a staple of the beginning of our relationship and bonding and seeing all of this really is just super disheartening to hear about. But, at the same time, I’m not really surprised either.
I will wait for you to become famous
The Jane Doe in the Google doc and the Jane Doe being talked about in the chat logs are two different people. Because Channel Awesome is a damn cesspool.
I try to look at a person's mouth or eyes so i can pay attention to what that person is saying, but i am so hypnotized by your hair.
MonadoBoy Now I've read this comment, so am I...
The natural lighting on what appears to be a cloudy day makes her look like a real Tonks from Harry Potter.
Love the way they frame their interpretations of what happend as "facts" opposite "accusations". Because, you know, framing your arguments as objective truths is such a great way to get them across, much better than giving an actual explanation. Or, you know, admit you were wrong, say sorry, and try working to be a better, more compassionate, more professional person in the future. NO, instead, Just prove you have the FACTS, which are the only real facts because you put the word "fact" in front of them. PERFECT.
My favorite "fact" is definitely the one that WELL, SOME WOMEN HAD/HAVE A GOOD TIME WORKING HERE. well, problem solved, sexism fixed, clearly this cancels out the experience of other women completely! No need to improve anything.
Hm or maybe the idea that you "chose to work in this place or on this project SO YOU CANNOT CRITICIZE THE WAY WE DO THINGS EVER." uh no you still have the responsibility of being professional towards the people who work with or for you. ESPECIALLY those who work for you, since they have less power than you, so it is easy to create an inconsiderate or even hostile environment where people are afraid to speak up because they will be dismissed (at best).
And all of this could have been solved if they took some responsibility instead. But hey, growing and improving both on a personal and professional level, WHO WANTS THAT.
For those of you that are (like me) too lazy to read the while doc yourself, the youtuber Fredrik Knudsen did a livestream where he read the whole thing aloud, giving commentary and context along the way.
I swear to god, when you said "who likes to scream a lot" and then cut to a video of Doug screaming, an ad just cut off the first two seconds and it felt like a f-ing jumpscare. I have been scarred for life ToT (joking)
same
I originally got into the Nostalgia Critic years and years ago on TH-cam around the time of ThatGuyWithTheGlasses. I liked his videos for the simplicity of it all. Then somewhere along the way he decided to do bits and characters with actors and I felt it dragged down the pacing of the videos and really, in my opinion wasn't that funny.
In the comments section other people mentioned Lindsay Ellis and I agree, after CA she flourished and grew and I love her video essays.
As far as movie reviews go, I appreciate RLM. Jay, Mike and Rich have a very natural flow and make their videos enjoyable to watch.
Wow, I’ll admit I wasn’t expecting much, but I’m super impressed by how professional (minus the savage burn at the end) you were throughout the video. Subscribed.
"But. Like. With ovaries, I guess."
Still watching these 2 years later
They were one braincell away from saying that they never hired a jane doe
When I remember how much Nostalgia Critic I watched, I try and remind myself that they introduced Lindsay Ellis to me so....
15:28 “DOUG themselves deeper,” amirite?
...i’m sorry
i was actually a huge fan of channel awesome for years. doug and the team were my first real foray into online media criticism/comedy and video essays. the passion and good intentions behind reviews like twister and patch adams were one of the first things that genuinely inspired me to think more critically about the media i consume. several channel awesome alumni (including daren jackson, allison pregler, lindsay ellis, todd nathanson, jamie maurer, and mathew buck) continue to amaze me with their diverse and insightful content, and have influenced what i hope to be my own video essay series in the future.
*that having been said*
the minute doug's infamous stardust sponsorship started, i knew something was up but i couldn't quite pinpoint what. knowing now that his creativity and sincerity has completely drained and that he treated most if not all of the aforementioned content creators i love like shit while continuing to allow vile scum bags like mike michaud in on production, it's a wonder so many people claimed to not see this coming. despite my continued support for all the creators i discovered through channel awesome, i literally never want to see anything walker brothers related again.
Everyone keeps talking about the To Boldly Flee DVD... Was it actually made? CA never mailed me mine.
Yup, the fact that some fans never got their DVD was also in the doc. The movie is re-uploaded on TH-cam!
come on, for those DVDs to come out, it'll take them another ＴＷＯ ＷＥＥＫＳ
Hal Emmerich I’m sorry, that’s about 15 minutes too long for me
I watched a stream of To Boldly Flee last year and THAT was three hours too long.
Saaaaame!
This is exactly the kind of breakdown I needed after they released the document yesterday. Thanks!!!
This just popped up. You're exceptionally articulate at 1,500 wpm... well now I have to subscribe. I really enjoyed the insight, and your eloquence.
I missed this whole story, other than watching some of Lindsays more recent content, Ive been out of the Channel Awesome loop for years now. Very interesting and reasoned coverage of events, good vid.
my favorite line ever
" i don't work for channel awesome
*thankfuck* "
I've been a fan since 2010, of NC's screaming like a child and everything, and to witness how much this channel has crumbled in the past couple of weeks is pretty incredible. I don't think they can ever recover from the spectacular mess they've created for themselves, whenever it felt like things were stabilizing and there was a chance to make things right, they do this and now it's all going down the drain. Goodbye CA, it's been nice knowing ya.
It's funny to me not because they are going down, but because they had every opportunity to save themselves and blew it!
I genuinely wonder if their ego is simply too inflated to admit culpability.
I guess I can thank them for a few laughs, but if they think that will endear me to them enough to ignore the outspoken chorus of aggrieved content producers, many of whom I hold in higher regard than Doug walker, they are wrong.
LOL I think you mean screaming like little child. Can't lie Doug's commentary on Lango was funny.
Craig Toomey (from The Langoliers): Scaring the little GIRL?!
Then Doug repeats what Craig says but says it more girly. I keep thinking:
Obi-Wan Kenobi : You have allowed this dark lord to twist your mind, until now, until now you've become the very thing you swore to destroy.
"...who was brought on specifically to mimic Doug Walker's style as much as possible..." -- Really? In all objective fairness, I don't think you're giving Lindsay anywhere NEAR enough credit, here; I found her style to be entirely her own, from Day One--and even on her lamest, laziest day, she still came off (and in fact, *continues* to come off) as VASTLY the intellectual/stylistic superior to anything NC-related. Keep up the good work!
But Sarah's statement here is still true. Lindsay was brought on to be a female copy of NC, and was discouraged to deviate too much from the formula. She herself doesn't like her work back then.
The "rape joke incident" hits differently after Lindsey's Mask Off video...
Dayum, this was two months into your YT video essays? Someone came out the gate strong...
I just wanna say I clicked on the vid, got like 1 frame of Doug screaming and then it got cut off by an ad which is amazing
Perfect summary of modern Nostalgia Critic
I seriously think Michaud just ALWAYS has to have the last word even if it makes him look foolish
ALWAYS has to have the advantage even if he has to change the rules to do it
So when people are talking about how incompetent he is, he just HAS to fire back
I know this is super, super pedantic, but for the record its pronounced "Mih-shawd." Rhymes with fraud.
Fitting, tbh
Really? Because Michaud is a french surname and it is pronounced Micho.
Koko is 100% right, Sarah says it correctly in this video. Maybe he mispronounces his own name, though.
Gunkey O'Stanky I wouldn’t be surprised, especially if he never learned French. I know someone whose name is Desjardins and doesn’t speak French so he pronounces French words in an English manner.
Yeah, it's super common.
"how to hit rock bottom and keep digging" or "we had to call in Bruce Willis and the cast of Armageddon for this one".
There are only 4? producers left on the site. Brad, Larry, Buster (who hasn't posted since March) and a guy who hasn't posted since January.
I thought Brad also left?
Well those 4 are still listed on the site. And Brad hasn't said anything anywhere that I can see.
on SIJW, they said brad said he'd left, on a stream, but maybe it was just jokes.
And now, Brad and Larry are the only two left. It’s a barren wasteland.
I only saw this on reddit and I didn't verify it, but if you want you can search and do so. Apparently CA was going to add a 5th member to their administration, and the rumor goes that Brad was going to be this 5th person. I only saw this on reddit. So, many grains of salt.
absolutely love your voice, great to listen to. and you're always super insightful, good shit.
The Board Game Guy Agree with you on all accounts. I am enjoying the hell out of her videos.
My god.
I followed many of these creators back in the heyday, and fell off the routine of watching vids in my spare time after I started work on my book. I come across Lindsey Ellis again, start following her content. Find a few more by proxy... I stumble upon your channel at the recommendation of the youtube algorithm (something for which I'm grateful--you do fine work) and now BAM. I suddenly get to see what’s happened to a group I had so many fond memories of watching.
I'm only three quarters through the document, but I'm already feeling overwhelmed.
On the plus side, now I have a list of folks I want to track down so I can support their content, now that they're free from such a horrendous working environment.
As someone who used to consistently watch NC and still watches some of the other channels (like Chris Stuckmann and Todd in the Shadows), I’m having a lot of fun watching this ship sink. It’s been a glorious disaster where a bunch of assholes are getting what was long coming to them.
Mike’s Music Reviews It really feels hollow for me though.
On one hand, I'm glad they are slowly and painfully killing themselves after what they did.
But on another, I'm sad that a channel that I loved. A person who I looked up to as a comedian and a critic.Turned out to be such a landfill.
On the upside though I and many others have found content producers that after going independent went on to make better and better content that I've consistently enjoyed.
I mean I've watched more and more videos from former contributers, and less and less of those still on the site.
This was long BEFORE the document.
So it's amusing to watch the stagnating site wither and die while it's former contributers flourish.
I remember when this happened and everyone was leaving CA, whilst Larry Bundy Jr made jokes about winning the CA hunger games after Doug appeared to have removed Channel Awesome as his employer on Facebook. How they're still around making videos to this day baffles me.
I’m so happy Lindsay and Todd got out of that shit show
*STANDS UP AND CHEERS*
1:05 If you wear headphones. Turn your volume down now!
This is a great overview of the grievances. I’ve been following TGWTG since the Nostalgia Chick first came on the site; it’s great to see people still thinking critically about what the site has done and what it has been
i didn't know you did a video on this. your video is probably the most unbiased, articulated, and informative video i seen on the subject.
What really interesting is how such horrid people can bring out amazing youtuber like the dom and linsey ellis.
I've never even heard of Channel Awesome or Doug Walker. I just watched Emily's video and I'm working backwards from there. it's super weird to be going through all this drama in reverse order. Finding out Lindsey Ellis worked for him is fucking me up for real.
How in the seven hells did Mike Michaud think that THAT response would help him in any way.