WHY YOU SHOULD NOT TRUST THIS TESTER THATS ALL OVER THE INTERNET.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2024
- THIS VIDEO IS ABOUT THE BESS SHARPNESS TESTER AND HOW EASY IT IS TO MANIPULATE, HOW ALOT OF PEOPLE USING THIS KNIFE SHARPNESS TESTER ARE CHEATING AND LYING. THE BESS KNIFE SHARPNESS TESTER CAN BE USED HONESTLY AND NOT SO HONEST AND THIS IS A VIDEO SHOWING WHY YOU SHOULDN'T TRUST PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET USING THIS DEVICE.
JOIN OUR MEMBERSHIP TO LEARN KNIFE
SHARPENING AND MORE
/ @neevesknives
NEEVESKNIVES STORE
www.amazon.com...
BLADE HQ
shrsl.com/3qffz
GP KNIVES
shareasale.com...
URBAN EDC SUPPLY
urbanedcsupply....
SMOKEY MOUNTAIN KNIFE WORKS
www.pntrac.com...
BLADE OPS STORE
bladeops.com/?...
KNIVES SHIP FREE
shrsl.com/3y136
KATSU KNIVES
katsuknife.com...
KAVISO
www.kaviso.com/...
KPL HEAVY AND ORIGINAL
amzn.to/3kmN8DT
KPL MAINTENANCE KIT
amzn.to/37OwKJJ
MOJAVE OUTDOORS GEAR (10% OFF)
www.mojaveoutd...
DISCOUNT CODE : Neeves knives
VOSTEED KNIVES
shareasale.com...
ORIGINAL GOAT
SAVE 15% USING MY AFFILIATE LINK
originalgoat.c...
OR USE 15% DISCOUNT CODE (NEEVES)
ALL LINKS AVAILABLE ABOVE ARE AFFILIATE LINKS
SAVE 10% AT WHITE MOUNTAIN KNIVES
DISCOUNT CODE (Neevesknives)
whitemountaink...
ppl CONSIDER VISITNG OUR PATREON!
ON PATREON Every tier will always be eligible for giveaways. We appreciate all of you for watching our content and supporting us!
PATREON LINK: www.patreon.co...
To donate, contact or just have some good 'ol knife talk with the Neeve's DM us on Instagram @neevesknives
LINK: ....
OR
Contact us by email at neevesknives@gmail.com
Instagram: Neeves Knives
NeevesKnives Paypal: jrneeve@gmail.com
This is 100% true, and I'll add that another way to cheat the test is to pull the filament extremely tight. It should be pulled just tight enough to take out any slack. Or of course you can use the pre-strung blanks, but those will read about 20% lower than the reel-type holder. I still find the BESS tester to be an invaluable tool for improving and checking on MY sharpening, which is the reason to have one (not to show off).
@@JREwing-se2wk The instructions say essentially what I said above: "The goal here is to
simply pull the test media across the gap in the fixture with no slack (slight tension) in the test media. Do
not over tension the test media." Tension doesn't have the same impact as speed, so it's not super critical. The difference between correct tension and overtightening is only about 15g. If you do the test the right way the results are very repeatable. I have the PT50B machine which reads to the nearest 5g, and I'd say that's about what the margin of error is for this system. That's why I chose the somewhat cheaper PT50B over the PT50A which reads to the nearest 1g.
You buy pre set filaments. They're stretched across a plastic tab, like one of those tooth flossers. It's not as variable as he's making it out to be.
@@littlejackalo5326 I agree that the test clips would be best for comparing results on TH-cam. But this is what Edge on Up says about them: "While test clips utilize the same test media that is found in our TM02 test media canisters, DTC100 test clips are not BESS CERTIFIED and are useful for highly repeatible relative edge measurements only. Test clip measurements yield approximately 80% of the force required when using our BESS CERTIFIED ATF10G fixture."
You can buy the protest strips if you want consistency
Or. You can get a magnetic clip and use a specific weight (ie: 100 grams) to pull the wire taught each time so you can at least create your own consistency as best as possible
@@joshuarosenblatt the clip are also faster when sharpening too before changing grit to check for burr
I use weights to ensure BESS C media is always at same tension. I also go slow as per instructions. I have seen too many fake ones done on TH-cam where I can tell they are going too fast. I am glad you demonstrated how results can be manipulated.
Great vid Jerad, bringing light to an issue that's becoming more prevalent with these Bess Testers. Would be great to see a mechanical arm that clamps onto the knife and would apply constant pressure until the wire breaks, take the human part out of the equation all together. Thanks for the great vid and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable
That’s about the only way to get a real and consistent result.
yo Todd
I think one of the BESS tester prototypes used a mechanical rig like you describe. It used gram weights for pressure.
This is Neeves at his best. Representing. Excellent vid. Cheers
This video was constructed very well. Really informative with good pacing.
SPEAK THE TRUTH
Glad you brought this subject back to the foreground! Haven't seen anyone discuss this since Frankie and Bird were presenting their new tester and showing off the edge that Bird put onto a knife with his KME sharpener. He was getting wicked readings in the low double digits.... and they were using the tester properly!
Thanks a lot Jerad. We talked about it during a live and I was waiting for this video and explanations 👍
Always appreciate your honesty Jerad. Thats why we watch and trust you.
I appreciate the honesty! Keeping it real is why everyone loves you and definitely never hold back.
Thanks for speaking out on this! I have seen a fair amount of 🧢 from sharpening influencers using this device misleadingly
Thank you so much Jerad. Calling out this kind of crap is what we need
Great video man!! I've seen those crazy low BESS scores and have really wondered what was going on. I own a BESS tester and always do three cut averages when I'm serious about it. IMO you have to question your own results when doing any kind of testing. It's very easy to fool yourself when you're motivated by the feedback.
Thank you for showing us this! I hope you don't get to much flack for it. It was really informative, and it's good to keep it honest!
Thank you for this, I’ve been seeing some ads recently for a certain sharpening system and it’s clear they’re cheating it on which bothered me a lot
This is the test that the tumbler diamond rolling knife sharpener has been using for their ads. I knew it was too good to be true. Thanks for making this video. 😁👍
The punching the air part had me ROLLING LOL
LOL
That Tumbler rolling sharpener company are the best example of this
Totally agree with you bro. Slow and consistent is the only way to get consistent results.
I am Impressed how that blade went through that paper towel ! 👊🏼
Excellent video man. Honest approach. I had no idea it could be manipulated so much by speed.
It also has issues when comparing cutting capacity of polished edge vs aggressive edge. A polished edge sometimes will stop cutting rope at 300 BESS while an aggressive edge sometimes keep cutting up to 500. I think that makes sense even without any manipulation. BESS will measure keenness but, since there is no slicing motion, it doesn't take in account how serrated the edge is.
It would be fascinating to see results on something like dendritic cobalt. That stuff cuts like crazy, but is probably not going to test well on the BESS
@@neiljudell1437 I've heard of some exotic materials like tungsten carbide and elastic ceramic but dendritic cobalt is news to me.
@@thiago.assumpcaothe italian knifemaker Sandrin makes wolfram carbide knives
Short, clear, and informative. Amazing
this is exactly why this is my favorite knife channel. The bullshit does not stand, nor is tollerated here. Well done, well done indeed.
I never had confidence in this system and now I see why! not consistent at all and can obviously be manipulated!
Thanks for showing us the limitations of the tool. I would say, though, that the tool doesn’t lie… instructions are to be followed and the tool should be respected. There’s nothing inherently wrong with the tool… people just aren’t honest with how they use it. It’s like how I teach student about statistics. Statistics don’t lie - people do. People can frame true statistics in such a way that give a very biased picture. Just like with this tool.
So true man!!! I’ve called out instagram ads for doing the test quickly and without averaging.
Also I think the clips are much more consistent than the canister of filament, but they are spensive!
Also your 39 is insane! 70’s is my best!
Lol...The 39 was cheating!! 148 was the real number!! 👊🏼
@@David_DY I thought he had a legit one in the 30’s at the beginning of the video, but I rewatched and you are most definitely correct! My mistake!
Yes I discovered that with this tester fairly early using it...absolutely right dude, great video
Thanks for this eye opening review. I see many reviewers just barrel through the wire. I’m sure most aren’t trying to get one over on me, so I hope this makes its way to all. ❤❤
Always keeping it 💯 Jerad! Great stuff!
My tester is the top of my left hand. The area always has a clean shaven look.
I’ve been sharpening for my job since the 90’s and have had the PT50A model for 6-7 years now. I would love to see everyone start calling out these people en masse as the disinformation is not only obnoxious but likely discourages others starting out when they try to copy what they see with underwealming results. I’ve seen so many fail to use the tester properly and have a hard time believing it’s ever from a lack of knowledge on using the tester correctly as even the owner has an instructional video here. I believe people are doing it for some false ego boost or more nefariously to dupe viewers that don’t know better to overhype sharpening products they are selling/affiliated with. IDK why so people feel qualified to teach others skills they’re still just learning themselves, but TH-cam is flooded with self proclaimed “experts” who never have sharpening stones with any wear to them. The BESS Tester is great for confirming an edge is not passing other tests (ie push cut accross grain of thin rolling papers or HHT) from simply a weak but polished burr as it will just mushroom on the test media.
As Todd Carr said below. The only way to get this consistent would be to use a machine with consistent pressure to get accurate measurement.
We're with you mate.!
If you tension the wire by 100g which is the manufacturers guidelines then even your 3 measures to get an average would probably be closer.
Brilliant Jerad 👌 I know of a big lier down here in Mexico that manipulates results. Thanks bud🤜🤛
I have only seen one guy on youtube using it to test factory sharpness of knives and he uses it honestly. It is only a guide after all, there are heaps of ways to see how sharp a knife is. A number is just a number.
Awesome...truth...thanks for explaining this mythical tester...
Good info Jared! I new one of these. I just see if I can cut paper towels cleanly to test my edges .
Thanks for highlighting this issue. For me, the paper test is good enough as I use my knives every day.
Great video keeping them Honest 😅 👍 love seeing some of these "different/unique" videos that aren't the average run of the mill knife vids
I’m glad you did this, bc I didn’t trust the test universally either.
Great video. Thanks for sharing and making the community a better place.
I have had a lot of questions about this… BTW first!!!
Jerad is damn right about this! I for my part use cigarette tubes, for shits and giggles did I use this BESS thing once (a guy does the testing for 5€ each)
I dont trust this number thats why I wont say it and I dont wanna sound like a flexer or anything, another thing is that I dont have proof for that (no video sorry....) I did it once and he offered me to do a few more on house because he couldn't believe it all in all I did 4 testings for 5€.
But if you wanna check something Knife Grinders has a modified chart which shows that you can reliable whittle hair at the 100 range? (Im not certain at this moment) but they show what you can and cant do with the edge you have on your knife.
Another thing is I found out the tester favors Mirror Polished 4k+ edges because essentially you do a pushcut and Coarse up to 3000k score way higher on the tester, which is a little inconsistency I discovered....
CAPS LOCK is a button on a computer keyboard that causes all letters of Latin and Cyrillic based scripts to be generated in capital letters. It is a toggle key: each press reverses the previous action.
You don't Miss Dino and I appreciate that 👊
@@NeevesKnivesPizzA
Direct attack on the steel tumble roller thing. I love it
J swinging hard at the air was funnier than I was prepared for.. I think a couple of them connected.
I think the most objective way to gage a blade’s edge is to examine that under a microscope. That’s academically quite interesting, but you don’t really need to do that, if what you want is a blade that cuts. Just sharpen that thing until it cuts the way you want it to.
Another great video, I have one that I use and can regularly get an edge in 130-180 if working with good steels that have been heat treated properly. I just thought I must not be very good at it after watching some videos. Thx for pointing out that cheating is possible. Should have known
Thanks 🙏🏼 brother, keeping them honest 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you for this Public Service Announcement. My initial interpretation from the headline was that we should not consider purchasing this tool. I agree that accurate results are a challenge and that maybe people on the internet cheat. However I think this tool may still be useful as a gauge on my workshop. I would need to learn how to use it accurately and consistently so that I could use it as a metric of how well I sharpen. But I also agree it may be of little value to try and compare numerical values between other people or even between different knife styles.
BASED, never crossed my mind. You would need to do a more controlled test where you knew the same amount of pressure was being applied every time and THEN average it as well. Wow, that's a "results may vary" if I've ever seen one!
How about testing multiple points on the blade? Seems to me that using the entire length of the blade to cut paper would reveal variations. But how can you put a number on that? I really don't care, because I like to see people showing off by cutting paper, cutting slices off blueberries, and doing other real things that I can try to duplicate. Great video!
Neeves keeping it real 👍🏻
Dude, I love my mordax. It was cool to see you using one🇺🇲🙃
Very nice! I've seen a lot of misuse of these Bess tests, and it's irritating every time.
Good video. Glad it was short and no BS
I couldn't possibly agree more. Further, the Bess test is only good for testing a blades push cutting ability. It completely ignores such things as micro teeth for instance where high vanadium carbide steels really shine. I can sharpen a blade so sharp and highly polished on the edge that it will score very low, shavel ikea deamn but will not cut hot butter!
KnifeMaker
Great explanation! Thanks for the video
I never realized it was a *wire* being cut. For some reason, I thought it was a little clear plastic card being cut into. Since it's a wire, is BESS basically testing micro bevel acuity, independent of overall edge geometry?
It should not be toooo difficult to develop a system that overcomes those problems. I wonder why there is none...
Fantastic vid Jared. Thanks
You should put up a short of this
We all know a certain drop shipper who used to slam down on the tester. They’ve been called out and seem to use it as intended.
Oh, boy, this is going to cause a stir, but you backed up what you said.
This is literally something I've been telling everyone i know that sharpens. Anytime you use the spool it's very easy to cheat the score to make your ego feel better. I prefer the clips because those tensiona are set by factory
Good Information, Thanks Jared .😮
Thank you. Good to know. I think it should be easy to see if someone is doing it right or not.
It can also be a low number where its being tested and a higher number elsewhere on the length of the blade.
Great video. Thank you for doing this.
I’ve seen SO many people use this tester and straight up lie about how sharp knives are. Maybe they don’t realize, but it’s ridiculously off. So many Benchmade’s testing like they come with Hogue edges when we all know there is zero way that’s accurate.
I still am thinking of ordering one of these testers. Just to see if my sharpening skills are up to par. Prior my only concern was the leverage of the handle and the difference edges would effect the numbers, like recurve to a belly..
I don't like that test very much because it can't differentiate between a polished and toothy edge. So even with a sharp knife you might not have a very good cutting performance
That thing has been suspect in my mind since it first showed up.
Well I guess that’s why my results sucked so bad compared to others. I thought I was one of the worst sharpeners because I always got ok results. Great video as always 👍🍻🍻
😆 🤣 exactly punching the air
Thanks for information
I always wondered what difference the speed of cut made... thanks for clarifying for me...
The paper towel test and regular paper to test the complete edge is king , REMEMBER JERAD THE EDGE IS A GHOST 👊🏻
I trust your edges more than anyone’s in the community !
Find them, expose them and then punish them. Confiscate their sharp ones.
Yep, anything with a human element isn't going to be the most accurate thing around, especially when comparing between different humans.
I'll use the thing for videos when I'm checking a blade's edge right out of the box. I do it in real time on camera and also depict my stringing of the filament so people can draw their own conclusions... but that does require their knowledge on HOW to properly utilize the tool to judge if someone's using it correctly or not.
As you say, more often than not, people don't RTFM and maybe follow the techniques from other content creators that get those unrealistically low numbers. I'm immediately skeptical of any readings someone gets if things score less than 100. Usually you can see this if they show it on camera though, as the blade will have inertia and continue moving after the filament is severed.
For the most part, I use it from time to time as a sanity check on my own sharpening. If I change something up in my technique/materials, or use a different system or stropping compound, etc I can see if it's effective, has diminishing returns or was regressive.
Point taken. Thanks Jerad.
Very informative video, thanks for sharing
Excellent education. As for this device. Create a pivot with arm and weight to put the pressure on. Could be done 3D printing. As well gives a repeatable force.
The only sharpness test I ever do is phonebook paper, against the grain. Sure, not super-dupper sharp. But that is my minimum standard. If it can cut phonebook paper, it can cut anything I usually cut, with ease. And it’s not TOO sharp where you’d lose the edge too quickly. And it’s fairly easy to maintain this said standard, freehand, with few strokes of a diamond rod, butcher’s steel, and a leather strop.
My dollica scored a 17 on the machine.. are you telling me that's fake ??
You are a legend
Well on my shorts I go slow if that's what you been seeing 😂
TH-cam needed this
Maybe someone should design a new one that clamps onto your blade and brings it downwards at the same speed constantly. This would take very little effort and completely fix the problem.
They need to modify the scale so that it automatically applies a progressive load at a constant rate. I bet this could be rigged up for not too much? Use a load cell and RTC to record the g/s loading rate?
On the internet if someone tells you the sky is blue you better do your own research because 99% of the time what people say and do is wrong or falsely informed
Sausage meter! Knife edge pointing up; let sausage rest on edge and drag it along the blade. Depth = sharpness 😂 tasty test.
Thanks for that ! I'm going to show my friends.
I don't use the device to see how *low* of a score I can get. I used it to gauge my sharpening process. It is quite fun, though, to see exactly how razor-sharp you can get something. I typically use it in a casual way and keep all of my knives in the 200-ish range, which is plenty sharp for whatever I do with a knife. The sharper the knife is, the quicker you will lose that 100-200 razor edge.
It's actually the opposite way, the sharper it is the more edge retention it has. What you lose is toughness so there's a balance so that your edge is not to brittle but sharper leads to longer cutting edge retention. Now certain steels will lose the bite much faster with a very fine grit which can come off as getting less sharp. I watch the majority of people who use this test cheat this test most people do not know what to look for or how it actually works which is why I made this video after watching dozens of people cheat the test
@@NeevesKnives I learn something every day!
Amazing video!
How consistent is the test Bess certified test media ?
- I am testing high quality monofilament fishing line with =/- 5% deviation.
- 100 tests with new out of the wrapper scalpel blade
- Using a mechanical 10 to 1 speed reduction lever to minimize feed speed & variations in feed speed.
- The mono filament line I am testing seems to be 50% stronger =/- 5% deviation.
I'm not sure I have not specifically tested that in a controlled manner
If you use it properly, then why should you not trust it?
The video should probably be called "Why you should not trust the Testers on the internet using this tester".
The title disparages a tool that a lot of people use successfully and consistently with proven results.
This is my first experience with clickbait on your channel.
I haven't actually seen anyone karate chop through like that.
I've seen it manipulated and seen people in the comments calling them out on it.
I KNEW this was a weird way to test sharpness
Thanks for the content I wondered if it was a trick to it.