How does Magnacut compare to high end carbon steels and Delta CPM 3V
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ธ.ค. 2022
- CPM Magnacut is an exciting new stainless steel that substitutes some nitrogen for carbon and uses Vanadium and Niobium to create a high performance stainless steel that doesn't need a lot of chromium to be highly stainless. This gives it properties almost like a carbon steel rather than the chippy, mushy edge you might associate with a stainless. We are working on an optimized heat treat for this new material for our own line of knives. See how CPM Magnacut compares to other heavy duty work horse steels. This video demonstrates the outstanding performance of this steel and also compares it to our other favorite steel, Delta 3V.
Also what is the name of your knife company?
Carothers Performance Knives
The clue is in the channel title.
@@twatmunro lol
Dutch Bushcraft Knives also covered one of their knives: th-cam.com/video/1caUlwPxRfQ/w-d-xo.html
@@NateAIM LMAO
that last test with the Delta 3V is truly impressive.
To me the Delta 3V would be the choice for a chopper or "survival" type knife (e.g. one that will be abused) so long as corrosion isn't a priority (ocean) and the Magnacut for slicing, wood working, normal bushcrafting, light batoning, kitchen use, or anything else that doesn't involve gross abuse. I believe the Magnacut is going to have slightly better edge retention most of the time with superior corrosion resistance, and the Delta 3V is going to be tougher.
One of your Delta 3V just went to the top of my wish list! Outstanding!
What an excellent example of the importance of heat treating as much as the steel type for specific designs and uses. Thanks for the data points! Have a great week.
That's a really fascinating comparison! The Delta 3V steel in particular is astonishingly resilient. However, my kitchen knives will certainly never be used to cut any bolts or chains. I look forward to eventually adding a magnacut blade to my arsenal.
Came over from BF. Great video! Thank you! Great to see some common blade steels compared to your heat treat.
Well, this is new to me. I love knives, metallurgy, and heat treating methods. I find it very fascinating. Awesome!
Would like to see a comparison of edge retention between your heat treat and the standard heat treats for magnacut. Also thanks for the video. I enjoyed watching it.
Excellent info, Nathan - another example of why CPK is a cut above. Thanks for sharing this.
Above what?
Love it. Nice to hear from you guys on here.
Very impressive! Thanks for this analysis.
so glad i found this video again!... been trying to find it for ages!
Excellent video Nathan, very informative, can’t wait for my field knife in delta 3V to arrive! 😀
Nate is the Bob Ross of the knife industry. Keep making those happy little carbides fellas!!!
HAHAHAHA.....
Oh a few months back I found those radius plattens I got from you and decided to give them a try. It changed everything for me. Talk about a perfect grind for a chef's knife. I had some S35VN .140" stock. Never wanted to use it for chef's knives but now it do a flat distal taper out to the tip with a zero edges and pull the hollow up to the distal taper. Most of the contact surface is thinner than it would be on a FFG. That little bit of hollow might help with food release. The part I love is that I get the the very thin and slicy blade that is what I am doing with a chef knife but I get some weight and a very stiff blade that just feels better.
I hope you keep making those things. I have only been using them for a few months and I am Freaking out about what happens when they wear out. If there is anything else you make for grinding I don't know where to find your stuff. It was really random when I saw them up the sellers page of BF.
Great comment, thanks!
he gives off Bob Ross vibes except with knives
"Happy knives, we're making happy knives" 😅
This is amazing and I didn't know how much I wanted to see this
Extremely impressive fellas. Very good work.
You should link your knives so people can go and buy some. Pretty impressive. Great video
I can't wait to pick-up a few of your knives!
Just goes to show what a great heat treat can do for a knife. There's so much focus on just the blade steel a knife might have but other attributes such as heat treat, edge angle, thickness behind the edge all matter just as much in the overall execution in creating a great knife.
Amen to that. Edge geometry and heat treatment are often just an afterthought with many makers I see. The best premium steel can be atrocious with a bad heat treatment or bad edge geometry.
Very impressive. Keep up the hard work.
incredible performance from those steels
If I hadn’t seen that last test I wouldn’t have believed it.
Right on man. Best wishes with the Magnacut. Hopefully here soon I'll own 2 knives from you - the other being a 3V model.
Best way to purchase one?
@@nv854
Bladeforums
That CPM 3V is just... holy crap. 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Nice video, enjoyed it. And yes, the chain cutting was awesome!🐒
Grumpy sends his love!!! Rocky is tagging along too!
I am sitting here awestruck! I mean completely flabbergasted! A knife cutting a nail and virtually unscathed afterwards floored me…but a chain…🤯🤯🤯!!! I just know, without searching, it will make me seem poor; so I won’t look. AMAZING!!!
Thank you
This mighty blade could cut through Satan's dark soul if it wanted to. It is truly a blade forged by celestial power!
I'm gonna look you up. Very nice knives. Thanks for the video.
Your knives are awesome- I have a DEK 1 and UF which are fantastic and waiting on a Basic 5. My knife buying has about stopped except for yours and Joe Watson.
Dr. Larris Thomas, the inventor of Magnacut steel, said in an interview that the number one factor affecting knife performance is edge geometry. Understanding the intended use of a knife is important to apply an edge geometry that will optimize performance. Larrin said that a knife that might not seem very good can be made better by modifying the edge geometry.
i'll just leave a like and a comment to support your work and that you destroyed your own knives that you worked on and did an effort on them. I respect that you have balls to do this only to show us, thanks.
That is downright impressive.
That green one cut the nail very nicely imo
I have Carothers knives in D3V and aebl and they nail the HT on both of these steels. One of the best fixed blades around.
I'd like to add that aebl is very underrated in larger blades.
I've always wondered what an optimized HT of yours would result in if you ever tuned one for 1V or S7. I'd definitely buy anything you made! Hell, I already do! Your D3V is downright incredible.
Dude the inclusion of a richtig… amazing dude. Going down the generations.
Apparently his knives range in the mid 50s for HRC
Also richtig means right as in correct
Your Delta 3V is amazing!
Great video Nathan. It would be nice if you can throw in AEBL next time heat treated to the same hardness to MC. It would be interesting to see how they compare once they both pass 62.
I agree, I just posted this same thing. I've dropped my balisongs from just stupid heights and they never take damage. It doesn't stay sharp long (which is great on balisongs) but no one ever tests it against 3V.
@@Old_School69 "stupid heights" needs it's appropriate reply "heights stupid"
@AR9fy wtf does that mean?
I'd love to see a comparison of d3v to 15v both above 63 hrc.
Just got a DEK 1 from the preorder and am loving it. Looks great alongside the UF2 👍🏽. What is the knife that went before the Busse?
Bark River Kephart maybe?
Some guy on Blade Forums was trying to say that the Delta Heat Treat was just a marketing scam. Personally, I think he's talking out of his ring piece, but it is what it is. Any blade that can slice through a chain that thick without taking a chip or major damage is a big win! Great job Carothers!
@@beowulf_of_wall_st It's all about choice and what your personal needs are. Do you use your blades hard? Do you baby them? So many steels, so many choices. You decide what YOU need. Personally, I am glad that the option is available.
Keep up the great work.
Very informative, thank you!
Awesome thanks for the video!
So, a little longer soak time for the Magnacut. Thank you for that tidbit. Are you using LN or dry ice? I imagine with lower austenitization temps. the dry ice is sufficient because retained austenite doesn't seem to be as big of an issue with this steel.
Impressive. I saw someone do this with the Ontario TAK1 (older 1095 stamped version) and no damage to steel. So I got one.
I have a TOPS UTE in 1095 that has surprised me with how good TOPS heat treat is. I have several 1095 knives and the TOPS is in a whole different league.
I've never, EVER seen a knife cut thru "chain" that thick, or any chain!!! I, am impressed!!!
Subscribed too!
Just curious how aeb-l steel stacks up toughness wise. I have it on a few balisongs and it is insanely tough and stainless. It's not on the same level as 3V in edge retention, but I'm dying to see it against 3V in toughness.
Somebody with the means, time and interest needs to do this. I bet it would get plenty of views from "knife people."
Look up knive steel nerds, he has all those tests and answers
AEB-L is so low in the steel category and so far from these steels, that it's useless to compare it to them. Magnacut is WAY harder, will hold it's edge for at least 6 to 8 times more, than AEB - L, and that may sound little, but it's huge. in real use. AEB -L is one of the oldest steels, where Magnacut is the newest... It's night and day. You won't see any difference in toughness, in real use ,between any of these steels you ,mention. Literally no difference at all, other than edge retention and ease of sharpening.
How thick do you need to run those to do a nail? I might not have it perfect but when I tried with my 3V blades and I got damage. I usually do kitchen knives and like thin edges. I am making some bigger knives and I am leaving the edge .015"
I use bolt cutters on chain but everyone is different.
The modern super steels are great for edge retention, but are they tough as carbon st with a good HT? I know people are overly focused on edge retention.
I don't really care about stainlessness. I've used carbon steel kitchen knives for over forty years now. They don't rust and I can get a fantastic edge on them. If I could get a better edge on stainless, I've never found stainless gave me any better edge retention, the patina isn't a problem -- they 'grey' rather than rust here in the damp (but not humid) UK and the edge is both fantastic and easy to sharpen.
Hello! I’m a big fan of your work and was wondering if you can do a demonstration with cutting bone? Thank you!
Exciting news indeed!
There's a video on TH-cam of a Buck 119 in 420 HC chopping through a nail with minimal damage too. Buck just does excellent heat treating.
Man I don't know exactly what he did but I recently bought a Medford Bonfire in 3v and this thing has a massively thick 7.5mm bladestock although I could have done without the hollow grind but it came with a relatively thick behind the edge bevel so I laid it back a bit and slightly convexed it by hand on diamond plates and wow it became a decent chopper and feathersticker while still being able to cut a 16penny nail then cleanly slice paper that was the first time I'd gotten a knife to do that and take almost no damage at all while still being a good performer I mean anybody can put a nail chop edge on a blade but can it also perform well in other tasks after chopping the nail?
Video or it didn’t happen bro that’s a bold claim
what metal of these offers highest edge retention while maintaining a sturdy toughness for bushcrafting?
Great video, it was hard to head you though.
I appreciate what Larin has done with magnacut. I have a few knives in it. But man do I love some delta 3V. Unfortunately I only have one of your knives because they literally sell out in 2 seconds on blade forums. Haha. And for those that don’t know… I mean LITERALLY sell out in 2 seconds. Haha
You can find them used sometimes on the forums too. I haven't been on that forum since the general section knows nothing about heat treatment. It's painful to see them post.
Are you willing to share your recipe? I normally use Nitro-V but want to try Magnacut!
What is the rust performance and how easy is it to sharpen that last Delta 3V knife.
...my kingdom for one of those delta 3v blades...love to show that off on my own channel! ❤
What make/model is the Green chopper?
Busse Combat Bushwacker Mistress, was offered in 2009.
I could watch this guy talk steel and knives all day long and after dinner too.
Wish you would have tried the original magna on the bolt like the other two treated?
what was the hardness on the two magnacut samples you had?
Really impressive results. What about S35VN?
watching intently!
Came here for the Magnacut info but got more intrigued by your MIDO watch, had to google it, is it a Ocean Star? What model? Looks the part!
Delta 3V is pretty much untouchable. Insanely tough and fairly stain resistant. Magnacut looks impressive for a fully stainless steel for sure, but can't see it being better option than the Delta 3V for overall usage.
It's sort of a coked up AEB-L, though admittedly, I'll say that I've used it only in woodworking tools. But think slicing knife with some impact testing (not twisting) and that's what woodworking will advise on in terms of knife steels.
@@daw162 "coked up AEB-L" might be one of the best descriptions of a steel I've ever come across. Kudos sir, kudos!
@@chinaskibukowski7747 It's hard to think of a short explanation of it! under the microscope, it has tiny carbides like AEB-L. it sort of wears a little longer, a little more stainless, a little more time to sharpen....
coked up :)
What's the difference between regular 3V and delta 3V?
@@D00MTR33 the delta part.
Incredible!
I would love to see other tools use Magnacut, like screwdrivers, wrench jaws, sawsall blades, and other high demand tools that might get wet
I love my 440c and my D2 blade knives … perfect and not expensive… 😜✌️🔥🍀🍀🍀🌎🍀🍀🍀
All depends on your needs/wants. 440c and D2 doesn't have the corrosion resistance or edge retention a lot of people are looking for.
Let's get that CPK FK2 in Magnacut cranked out! Yeah, buddy!
Questions: 1) How does regular CPM-3V compare to high carbon stainless steels, as opposed to this Delta optimized CPM-3V?
Many indestructible knives are too thick to cut well. Will a steel upgrade led to a thin knife that won't break?
Delta 3V is beastly!
I subscribed to youre channel. I was interested in youre open analysis you seem to be curiouse. I like that 😊
I dont know whats youre location but where I live the winter temperatures can drop down to - 20'C to - 36'C Celsius and if youre out in the forest and have to make firewood its nice to have a Leuku hanging on my belt that can replace the axe if the axe is lost in the snow. I chopped wood with a Marttiini Leuku that has Marttiinis usual chromium stainless steel and I chopped a lot wood for about a year with it everytime we made a camp. It didnt break thou had some small chips. I was wondering does anyone know how that Magmacut performs in - 20 to 36' Celsius in a long period of time?
Thanks for the video.
But why sharpened to 18 degrees?
Isn't that an angle that you would use for kitchen knives.
Yes, that's true. We normally run 20 DPS, which has a good balance of cutting ability and durability in the materials we use, but I have been using 18 DPS while doing heat treat development work because it makes differences in edge stability more obvious to see.
Ideally nobody is ever in a situation they need to cut chains or bolts with a knife, but I guess in a pinch thats impressive.
I admit I have on occasion use my tougher knives to puncture pour spouts or breathing holes into steel cans if I can find a good can opener. Even s30v holds up for this type of task though.
I love magnacut. Have a chef knife at 64 hrc i dropped edge first into stone tile. The chef knife is screaming thin and chiped the stone tile... barely any edge damage and 5 minutes on a 300 stone to get it back to new.
Also have a outdoor blade in my own design at 63 hrc thats pretty thin and ive banged it trough two by fours and cuts loads of cardboard and plastic glued foam stuff. Still push cut free standing magasine paper after that.
Chef knife is 10 per side outdoor 15 per side
Myself dislike thick blades performance thin blades is my realm of blades and magnacut is a steel you can go thin with plenty tough silly stainless and good edge retention what more could you want
@@JREwing-se2wk i cant afford to buy anything with my current economical situation. Geometry makes all the difference like my mate aaron johnson showed he cut a nail with a sharpend butter knife
I am into thin and slicy knives too. I am using M4 at 66Rc and it does well down in the 6-8 degrees range. Have you ever tried it or plan on pushing Magnacut up there. I want to try it but I have lot of knives to finish and since my dewer is broken it's expensive to heat treat for a single blade so I need to run some batches so it's worth spending $50 on LN. I'm chasing what will hold up at higher hardness to support the edge and still do a quality edge. I wish Larrin would do something like a non stainless version and see if it could be pushed harder. I really want to see how 68Rc cuts.
@@stormiewutzke4190 i am not a knifemaker so no i havent.
CPM Magnacut was created by a member of the Knife Steel Nerds website and they do take their steel VERY SERIOUSLY over there. I look forward to future super steels coming from their production team.
Dr. Larrin Thomas is not just "a member of the Knife Steel Nerd website (team)", he is the creator of the page and sole inventor of Magnacut.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 Irrelevant nitpicking about Magnacut (which took more than one person to engineer by the way) is not doing the collective IQ of TH-cam any favors.
@@BigDaddySwingingMeat Of course LT did not do the work all on his own, but he is definitely more than just some member of a group. You might want to call this nitpicking, I call it credit where credit is due.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 I'll stick with calling it nitpicking.
I dream of owning one of these fine blades Sir.
Fun video!
@@JREwing-se2wk depends on the purpose of the knife. Not cutting to many bolts with my Chef knives. The edge retention and corrosion resistance on magnacut is superior compared to 3v
@@JREwing-se2wk Depending on the application. Magnacut has a better balance of toughness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance. 3V has higher toughness but is lower in the other two.
Would magnacut be good for a large Bowie knife in 3/16” steel? If not… what ss would be. Looking to keep material costs lower that premium steels.
Aeb-l obviously. It's very tough for a stainless and quite inexpensive. About twice as tough as magnacut, wear resistance is low tough (but there's more to edge holding than wear resistance). Or 14C28N which is quite similar.
@@here_be_dragons9184 thanks!
It would make a great Bowie. I don't cut nails and bolts and want something to cut. If you want pure cutting performance the group starts around Z-Wear and goes to CPM-M4 with Magnacut and the 4v group of steels being similar. I am currently so a 3V and M4 Bowie's. I am keeping the M4 and the 3V is for a client. I personally am never going to do anything where I need that much toughness and the amount of hardness you sacrifice is huge. Until you get into the ultra carbide packed steels that take crappy edges hardness is what will support a finer edge.
You want to talk about it more I check replies.
@Stormie Wutzke I just run into this video today:
th-cam.com/video/vC6NV084qlg/w-d-xo.html
They did break clean a magnacut knife batonning.
Now I know Bark River has questionable reputation, at least in my book, but still.
Steels that can brittle fracture like that should not be used for large outdoor knives. Use tough steel like 1055, 1080, 80CrV2, L6... People generally don't make large blades in stainless, but if you wanted, probably use AEB-L, 14C28N, or maybe even 420...
@@here_be_dragons9184 thanks!
Holy smokes! Cutting the chain with such little damage is remarkable!!!!
What is the best blade material for a camping knife?
Mind blown for sure
Damn, that 3V is impressive!
I love technical videos.
I super wish you made folders. I live in California and fixed blade carry here is annoying. I'd instantly buy a folder from you.
you deserve a nobel prize
Are you guys out of Wisconsin?
All fine and well if we could easily get one of your knives here in the UK.
Who made the second blade tested please
Does Carothers Magnacut have better edge retention that delta 3v? I mean when cutting cardboard
In cardboard, yes a little. In regular everyday normal use around the shop or as a tradesman, they're pretty close. In rough use, the Delta 3v is a little better. In extremely rough use, the Delta 3v will hold up where the magnacut might break
Guys, do you know anything about LionSteel heat treat quality ? I've just bought their newest karambit in MagnaCut and I wonder how tough it can be. On the label it says 62 hrc as far as I remember. Btw, what would you recommend for sharpening MagnaCut, is it harder to sharpen than eg D2 or S35VN ?
D2 and s35vn are two of the best comparisons I could think of for how Magnacut sharpens.
It responds better to touch ups on strops, but as far as how "hard" or "easy" it is to sharpen, it's right in that same area.
Edit: Magnacut at 62 HRC is extremely tough. MUCH tougher/stronger than the 7075 handle of the L.E. One...
Don't have a magnacut blade from LS but their Sleipner is extremely well done. They've one of the most advanced manufacturing plants of any mainstream company.
@@CNYKnifeNut Thanks man, I just don't understand your last sentence. What do you mean about the handle of LEone ? it's made of aluminum (or alloy).
@@davidthomson2794 Thx, I will try sharpening this knife soon as it came quite dull to be frank so I will see. In the past I heard some bad things about LionSteel, but they didn't concern heat treat but more like the general sturdiness of their knives which some claim was not comparable to the pretty high price. However , this karambit is an integral and it feels sturdy as f**k :D
S35vn is only hard to sharpen when it is heat treated poorly. S35vn should be easy to sharpen similar to AEB-L. A great performing stainless that is easy to maintain while having a good balance of toughness. Hence why makers like Chris Reeves and WC Knives offer it as a premium.
Wow so im not the only one that has hit a beer bottle with my knife edge. I'll never forget the first "high-quality expensive knife" I bought. I had just unboxed a Protech Malibu in 3v steel. Opened a beer as I always do sitting down to fidget with my new toy. As I hit the button lock to throw the blade closed it came right down on the top of the beer bottle. Didn't break the bottle but put a nice gouge on the edge. Being new to knife collecting not knowing how to sharpen yet, at $270 it literally made me sick! 😂
What's that tell you about protech 3v!? Supp to be grade A super steel toughness right?. 🤷♂️
Good steel can still suck if it has a bad heat treat or if it was burned at the edge in sharpening. None of the manufacturers are doing a very good job with 3V. Almost everyone uses the secondary hardening hump that was developed for tool and die work where minimizing part growth and dimensional changes was a key concern and that is not a very good heat treat for a knife edge. But it's the most common by far
@@NateAIM That was my thought was burnt edge, considering Protechs reputation, but I'm just a knife nut consumer so idk.. thanks for the reply! Just subbed and will own one of your knives soon! Very impressive. I've been wanting my first good fixed blade beater/chopper.