Actually, before Loeb.. this is Markku Alen who held the absolute record of rally stage wins, more of that: he held that record over two (2!) decades (!!). And I don't understand why people always ignore him, especially when he is so honest to admit his weak sides or admit skills & masterliness of other drivers despite of his own incredible huge record and skills.
Rally stage wins are great and all, but they don't matter that much unless they're converted into victories and championships. Colin McRae also has an impeccable record of stage wins, but then he was just as likely to put the car into a tree. It's no surprise he won only 1 title, despite being arguably the fastest rally driver of all time. Of course 19 victories is a phenomenal tally for rallying, where just bringing the car home is a challenge in and of itself, but it of course pales in comparison to the staggering numbers of Ogier and Loeb, who rewrote the rule books. I would rank Loeb's 9 championships and 80 victories as the greatest achievement in all of motorsport, closely followed by Ogier. In other motorsports it's virtually impossible to win a championship if you're not in the best car, but in rallying the driver makes most of the difference. That's why Ogier was challenging for the world title no matter which team he was competing in - even in 2019, when he pushed Ott Tänak deep into the season despite the Citroen being a far inferior car to the Toyota Yaris of that year.
@@rallybeast Ogier had much harder time winning because WRC dictated in 2015 that the championship leader must start the first two days of each rally from first position. since 2017 it's only first day, but championship leader today has a significant disadvantage over his rivals in gravel and snow, as he will sweep the roads. I think before 2015 championship leader could choose the road position and had advantage over his rivals
Loeb was so calculative that few championship came that way. Grönholm said that he has so big will to win that his last year championship went there. second position has given him championship but had try to win and crashed. Loeb calculate what position is enough.
@@petrihakkinen2336correct, Ogier had erratic driving style like Colin whilst Loeb learnt pacenote preparation and driving style from Auriol who taught him clean driving not too much sliding. Loeb was very precise in his approach from rally to rally.
Well.... I am a huge fan of his and clearly he is well on his way to his first one but that leaves 8 to be tied with Löeb. Toyota right now is dominant but you never know what will happen during the next decade. If he has a seat in a competitive car, sure I think it's possible. Then again what if Kalle 2.0 emerges. You never know, way too early to tell.
I remember when I was young, whenever I watch some motorsports on the TV it was two Seb's dominating a sport-Vettel for F1 and Loeb for WRC. Those two were the only drivers I knew in their respective sport because their names and faces were ingrained in the podium (and in my head) lol. So I started rooting for them 😊
I just found funny how Loeb came back from retirement this year for a couple of rallies and snatched the inaugural Monte-Carlo win. The absolute legend.
There were 2 drivers not doing and looking for points for the championship. If you look well, it was Ogier o led all the event and only lost due a puncture on the penultimate stage. Even after the puncture Ogier showed his class doing a incredible power stage where only a 10s penalty shadow his performance. But if you check his onboard, it is the most insane power stage to date. It was 110% and wining more than a second per kilometer.
Considering how much dominant Kalle became this year in the post Ogier era, the 9 titles of Loeb are under threat by a huge age margin to say the least.
Bet with you that would be impossible. I mean, Kalle is a champ, but he can't overcame from some bad setup etc. However he is a driver that can adapt to a bad car setup and drive it like the car want. But this cars are well different from 2017. Best we have on recent history. Kalle can win 3 titles, but there are drivers that learned on his school before.
He is a complete racer. Winning in for FIA affiliated championships. But Ogier managed to win with different manufacturers which is very difficult. It's a pity he has stopped full-time coz he's still unbelievable
walter röhrl is by far the best car driver ever, winning rallys with 10 minute gaps to p2? you could not imagine this today... just watch "die lange nacht von arganil" where he won a single stage in night and fog with a gap of 4 1/2 minutes, nobody can do that... absolute masterclass on any surface! he just not won monte carlo 4 times, he won it 4 times on 4 different cars with AWD, FWD and RWD!
@@rallybeast watch his docus^^ he never wanted to be world champion, he dont even wanted to go to the award ceremonys. and the 80´s era with the group b to the end was a completely different sport, they not driving 550bhp today, and loeb never won a championship with 3 pedals
@@TvoRakif you see how Loeb wins in other disciplines I'm sure he would've been brilliant back then too. Rohrl was extremely disciplined, precise, obsessive - he was probably the 1st ultra professional driver not like the previous gentlemen drivers. He would visualize a stage at the start, time himself then drive it and match that time. What a beast.
Leob!! Being a Gymnast helped for sure. His style and no excuse mentality is awesome. But, it's just the lack of mistakes for so long that is amazing!!
In 02-03 when some of the 90s guys were still around, he blew the socks off them when everyone thought he was just a tarmac expert. Shock to the system
Kalle has a lucky year, but im pretty sure that in near future we will see Evans, Tänak or Neuville again on the highest podium place. They all have a great car control.
@@nez-brise3534 Kankkunen got much bigger challenge. 1986 and 1987 he compete against 7 former champions, 1991 against 8 former champions. 1993 he got easy only against 4 former champions and Auriol, McRae and Makinen. Before last year '21 Ogiers only real challenger was Tanak. IMO competition in 80's and 90's was much harder than Loeb or Ogier time.
@@ilkkak3065rallies were longer too, not just sprints. Today's era simply lacks competitive parity unfortunately. Once one driver starts winning, the rest can't match him
@@rallybeast It's too early to say. It's one thing to win a championship; quite another to defend it. Let's say Ott Tanak moves back to Toyota (unlikely, though), because his tenure at Hyundai has pretty much been a bust; or Thiery Neuville joins the Japanese team: well, then Kalle has a real challenge on his hand. Elfin Evans doesn't have the belief and confidence to mount a serious, sustained challenge, but it would be another story if someone like Neuville or Tanak was in the same team. My ultimate wish is that a new manufacturer joins the WRC and Ogier is enticed back to build the team up, like he did with VW - then we'll see some real fireworks.
In my books, Loeb had 10... the year before his 1st official championship, he could have taken the win but was held back by team orders to secure Citroen's championship.
The best asphalt specialists are frenchman and itlaians like Didier Auriol, Ragniotti, Panizzi, Bugalski, Giandomenico Basso, Andreucci. Ogier is probably the best on the planet, but Loeb is out of that world
I love S.Loeb and he has more tittles than S.Ogier but D.Sordo accepted team orders and he helps a lot to S.L. S.Ogier won his tittles in three different cars (not one manufacturer ) so for some of us he can be no. 1 C.Sainz could have more tittles but he break back window in his Corolla WRC... Maybe R.Burns could have more tittles if he could live longer... I think K.Rovanpera will be the new champion but for how long? We will see :)
Kalle has a lot of potential for greatness, but achieving the numbers of Ogier and Loeb will be a tall task. Think of it this way; we're nearly a decade away from that being a reality.
@@rallybeastlooking at his competitors, he is much stronger. The Hyundai isn't reliable enough to match the Yaris and Neuville makes many mistakes as a season goes from rally to rally.
He is still very precise and disciplined, I think he has that special gift. If your car is not strong you have to get to the podium it is what Sainz was a genius at and that's how he outlasted all his compatriots from the 80s and 90s and still competes at a high level today. Mechanical sympathy is key to being great too. Many drivers just break the car in search of speed.
Ogier all the way. Then we have drivers like Vatanen (only one before Ogier beeing world Champion in a private team) or Walter Rohrl that managed to won Monte with different manufacturers like Ogier. But Ogier done everything, even beating FIA when the federation tryed to stop him and Julien Ingrassia to win during 2 years, 2015 and 2016. Unsport rule where Ogier had to open the road for 80% of the each round. Ogier also was kicked from Citroen because Loeb didn't wanted opposition inside his team. Irony is Citroen leaving after Ogier tryed and give a chance to Citroën in 2018. Ogier is definitely the GOAT, looking well, 2005 to 2010 Loeb had none opposition. It was basically Loeb VS Gronholm and then Mikko Hirvonen. Subaru never had competitive car after 2005. But we had huge drivers like Mikkola, Salonen and one of the best.. Juha Kankkunen. Definitely one of the best drivers the wrc had.
@@Franko384Makinen destroyed him, then Peugeot came with an unbelievable car and before you know it his career was over 😢 broke my heart because he was great to watch but he threw away so many victories for no reason. The whole 1996 he smashed the Impreza to bits, in 2001 he was faster than Burns in GB and was cutting all the apexes even when he had a healthy margin and destroyed the car and chance to be world champ. Great wrc character though.
most legendary drivers are named sebastien. Loeb's almost 10 in a row made It boring those years that It reminded me of lancias tenure where they quit because everyone knew they would win... I wont like to see that many wins In a row, not because the driver Is too good but because If you already know who will win before the 3rd race of the season then It ruins the fun...
Completely agree! The same thing happened in F1 with the Hamilton dominance. A lot of fans lost interest in WRC during the two Seb's dominant years. It does showcase the skill of the drivers but gets very boring for the fans.
@@rallybeast style, personality,the rallies themselves, determination, competition....... compare the drivers from say 84 to those 20 year later, a lot easier to win when youve only got 5 rivals instead of 25
@@paulnutter1713 its the same for Loeb.. he win ALWAYS without competitors but with mediocre drivers Like.. duval, Wilson, prokop,Galli, rautembak, pasonen,villagra.. I prefer the 1 title of auriol win against McRae Sainz kankkunen biasion ecc... Put Loeb race in 98 season when race for the victory 13 wrc Champions, kankkunen McRae Sainz makinen burns auriol + many tarmac safari and snow Specialist like panizzi delecour liatti bugalski Eriksson Duncan... and Peugeot Subaru Skoda Mitsubishi Seat Ford not only Ford and Citroen.... Stay sure that Loeb win 0 not fure 9 titles...
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLGjxFL6U_I/mqdefault.jpg)
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [2/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qJbQs_nhjD4/mqdefault.jpg)
Actually, before Loeb.. this is Markku Alen who held the absolute record of rally stage wins, more of that: he held that record over two (2!) decades (!!).
And I don't understand why people always ignore him, especially when he is so honest to admit his weak sides or admit skills & masterliness of other drivers despite of his own incredible huge record and skills.
Loeb has 80 rally wins, and Alén only has 19. He has the 9th most rally wins.
@@rallybeast as I said, rally stages wins.
My mistake! I read your comment wrong.
Rally stage wins are great and all, but they don't matter that much unless they're converted into victories and championships. Colin McRae also has an impeccable record of stage wins, but then he was just as likely to put the car into a tree. It's no surprise he won only 1 title, despite being arguably the fastest rally driver of all time. Of course 19 victories is a phenomenal tally for rallying, where just bringing the car home is a challenge in and of itself, but it of course pales in comparison to the staggering numbers of Ogier and Loeb, who rewrote the rule books. I would rank Loeb's 9 championships and 80 victories as the greatest achievement in all of motorsport, closely followed by Ogier. In other motorsports it's virtually impossible to win a championship if you're not in the best car, but in rallying the driver makes most of the difference. That's why Ogier was challenging for the world title no matter which team he was competing in - even in 2019, when he pushed Ott Tänak deep into the season despite the Citroen being a far inferior car to the Toyota Yaris of that year.
@@rallybeast. M8
Kalle Rovanperä Will start The winning this session and his only 21y old so no problem.
Agreed! He pretty much has it in the bag this year
Aivan Ihanaa
I think he’ll be 22 when it inevitably happens. Still incredible though. Puts the other old timers to shame!
@@runawayplane6166 not really comparable when both Sebs were on part time seasons.
Loeb is spectacular to watch and probably never be beaten
Agreed! If anyone does, they likely don’t do it consecutively. Ogier wasn’t even able to do 8 consecutively.
@@rallybeast Ogier had much harder time winning because WRC dictated in 2015 that the championship leader must start the first two days of each rally from first position. since 2017 it's only first day, but championship leader today has a significant disadvantage over his rivals in gravel and snow, as he will sweep the roads. I think before 2015 championship leader could choose the road position and had advantage over his rivals
That’s right! I completely forgot that they made that rule change.
Loeb was so calculative that few championship came that way. Grönholm said that he has so big will to win that his last year championship went there. second position has given him championship but had try to win and crashed. Loeb calculate what position is enough.
@@petrihakkinen2336correct, Ogier had erratic driving style like Colin whilst Loeb learnt pacenote preparation and driving style from Auriol who taught him clean driving not too much sliding. Loeb was very precise in his approach from rally to rally.
Kalle Rovanperä will very likely break these records. He is only 21 years old and is almost a clear winner in WRC 2022 🚗💨💨💨😜🤘
He pretty much has it in the bag this year!
Well.... I am a huge fan of his and clearly he is well on his way to his first one but that leaves 8 to be tied with Löeb. Toyota right now is dominant but you never know what will happen during the next decade. If he has a seat in a competitive car, sure I think it's possible. Then again what if Kalle 2.0 emerges. You never know, way too early to tell.
@@Pyllymysli Well he still has like 25 years in WRC, if he wants to stay so I'd say atleast rally wins are going his way
I remember when I was young, whenever I watch some motorsports on the TV it was two Seb's dominating a sport-Vettel for F1 and Loeb for WRC. Those two were the only drivers I knew in their respective sport because their names and faces were ingrained in the podium (and in my head) lol. So I started rooting for them 😊
Now it's time to engrain someone new😉
I just found funny how Loeb came back from retirement this year for a couple of rallies and snatched the inaugural Monte-Carlo win. The absolute legend.
And he did it in the Ford! They haven’t won a rally in quite a while.
There were 2 drivers not doing and looking for points for the championship. If you look well, it was Ogier o led all the event and only lost due a puncture on the penultimate stage. Even after the puncture Ogier showed his class doing a incredible power stage where only a 10s penalty shadow his performance. But if you check his onboard, it is the most insane power stage to date. It was 110% and wining more than a second per kilometer.
Considering how much dominant Kalle became this year in the post Ogier era, the 9 titles of Loeb are under threat by a huge age margin to say the least.
It could be possible!
Bet with you that would be impossible. I mean, Kalle is a champ, but he can't overcame from some bad setup etc. However he is a driver that can adapt to a bad car setup and drive it like the car want. But this cars are well different from 2017. Best we have on recent history. Kalle can win 3 titles, but there are drivers that learned on his school before.
For me is Sebastien Loeb. He is a machine behind the wheel. In all tipe of sports - rally, wtcc or Dakar. True legend
He is a complete racer. Winning in for FIA affiliated championships. But Ogier managed to win with different manufacturers which is very difficult. It's a pity he has stopped full-time coz he's still unbelievable
Couldn’t agree more!
Greatest Rally Drivers of All Time is ALSO!!!
Michèle Mouton
ALSO FRENCH
How many championships does she have?
walter röhrl is by far the best car driver ever, winning rallys with 10 minute gaps to p2? you could not imagine this today... just watch "die lange nacht von arganil" where he won a single stage in night and fog with a gap of 4 1/2 minutes, nobody can do that... absolute masterclass on any surface! he just not won monte carlo 4 times, he won it 4 times on 4 different cars with AWD, FWD and RWD!
But does he have the most championships?
@@rallybeast watch his docus^^ he never wanted to be world champion, he dont even wanted to go to the award ceremonys. and the 80´s era with the group b to the end was a completely different sport, they not driving 550bhp today, and loeb never won a championship with 3 pedals
@@TvoRakif you see how Loeb wins in other disciplines I'm sure he would've been brilliant back then too. Rohrl was extremely disciplined, precise, obsessive - he was probably the 1st ultra professional driver not like the previous gentlemen drivers. He would visualize a stage at the start, time himself then drive it and match that time. What a beast.
FWD... Four Wheel, Front Wheel?
Leob!! Being a Gymnast helped for sure. His style and no excuse mentality is awesome. But, it's just the lack of mistakes for so long that is amazing!!
Loeb is an alien. No word for this skills.
My favourite is Sebastien Loeb.
He will always be one of the biggest rally legends!
In 02-03 when some of the 90s guys were still around, he blew the socks off them when everyone thought he was just a tarmac expert. Shock to the system
Kalle has a lucky year, but im pretty sure that in near future we will see Evans, Tänak or Neuville again on the highest podium place. They all have a great car control.
They are all World Champion-level!
3:29 what a photo!
One of the most iconic rally photos ever!
Latvala was the only full factory Finnish driver not to win a title. It was a great tragedy
Kankkunen is The GOAT. 4 championships in 3 different teams against most 2 times former champions in an era where many teams could win any rally.
He was good but Loeb has more than double the number of championships. Ogier has double the number and he also did it in three manufacturers.
@@rallybeast Yes, but Sebastians did not have true challengers.
Ogier won 8 titles tittles in four different cars
@@nez-brise3534 Kankkunen got much bigger challenge. 1986 and 1987 he compete against 7 former champions, 1991 against 8 former champions. 1993 he got easy only against 4 former champions and Auriol, McRae and Makinen. Before last year '21 Ogiers only real challenger was Tanak. IMO competition in 80's and 90's was much harder than Loeb or Ogier time.
@@ilkkak3065rallies were longer too, not just sprints. Today's era simply lacks competitive parity unfortunately. Once one driver starts winning, the rest can't match him
Kalle definitely has the potential
Agreed! He pretty much has this year in the bag and he’ll be dominant for quite a while.
@@rallybeast It's too early to say. It's one thing to win a championship; quite another to defend it. Let's say Ott Tanak moves back to Toyota (unlikely, though), because his tenure at Hyundai has pretty much been a bust; or Thiery Neuville joins the Japanese team: well, then Kalle has a real challenge on his hand. Elfin Evans doesn't have the belief and confidence to mount a serious, sustained challenge, but it would be another story if someone like Neuville or Tanak was in the same team. My ultimate wish is that a new manufacturer joins the WRC and Ogier is enticed back to build the team up, like he did with VW - then we'll see some real fireworks.
@Peter Tromp that is a good point.
Kankkunen is clearly my favorite because of round black pirelli.
I wish more drivers had character like that these days.
@@rallybeast He recently commented on this and said it was a stupid answer to a stupid question.
@@Pyllymysliin Indonesia they asked what weather he was hoping for and he said snow😂😂😂😂
@@Naiatelu I mean he is allowed to hope for it, right?
Kalle R.He is still young an focused to winning
He has the potential to be one of the all-time greats
Seb Loeb by far
Only one more title than Ogier.
@@rallybeast "Only one more title" It takes a lot..Being Finnish would love otherwise but this case not...by far:)
In my books, Loeb had 10... the year before his 1st official championship, he could have taken the win but was held back by team orders to secure Citroen's championship.
Hi i am wrc fan
Welcome!
amazing!
Thank you! Cheers!
The best asphalt specialists are frenchman and itlaians like Didier Auriol, Ragniotti, Panizzi, Bugalski, Giandomenico Basso, Andreucci. Ogier is probably the best on the planet, but Loeb is out of that world
That’s a great point! That’s probably because many of their national rallies are tarmac.
Strange how there's no elite Italian driver in the wrc. Almost 30 yrs since Liatti won Monte
I love S.Loeb and he has more tittles than S.Ogier but D.Sordo accepted team orders and he helps a lot to S.L.
S.Ogier won his tittles in three different cars (not one manufacturer ) so for some of us he can be no. 1
C.Sainz could have more tittles but he break back window in his Corolla WRC...
Maybe R.Burns could have more tittles if he could live longer...
I think K.Rovanpera will be the new champion but for how long? We will see :)
Kalle has a lot of potential for greatness, but achieving the numbers of Ogier and Loeb will be a tall task. Think of it this way; we're nearly a decade away from that being a reality.
@@rallybeastlooking at his competitors, he is much stronger. The Hyundai isn't reliable enough to match the Yaris and Neuville makes many mistakes as a season goes from rally to rally.
Todays champions came easy. There is now 2 brad or one which you can win title. In early 2000 in jyväskylä rally has 7 factory teams
That's a really good point. It must have been much more difficult back then.
@@rallybeast In early 2000's the top 10 drivers were all either world champions or becoming world champions. Anyone of them could've won.
@@rallybeastonly 3 of them won rallies though.
This year was easy for Kalle tbh, lets see what will happen if all cars is more even.
Agreed! Toyota had a solid car right from the beginning and Kalle was able to capitalize on that.
He is still very precise and disciplined, I think he has that special gift. If your car is not strong you have to get to the podium it is what Sainz was a genius at and that's how he outlasted all his compatriots from the 80s and 90s and still competes at a high level today. Mechanical sympathy is key to being great too. Many drivers just break the car in search of speed.
Ogier all the way. Then we have drivers like Vatanen (only one before Ogier beeing world Champion in a private team) or Walter Rohrl that managed to won Monte with different manufacturers like Ogier. But Ogier done everything, even beating FIA when the federation tryed to stop him and Julien Ingrassia to win during 2 years, 2015 and 2016. Unsport rule where Ogier had to open the road for 80% of the each round. Ogier also was kicked from Citroen because Loeb didn't wanted opposition inside his team. Irony is Citroen leaving after Ogier tryed and give a chance to Citroën in 2018. Ogier is definitely the GOAT, looking well, 2005 to 2010 Loeb had none opposition. It was basically Loeb VS Gronholm and then Mikko Hirvonen. Subaru never had competitive car after 2005. But we had huge drivers like Mikkola, Salonen and one of the best.. Juha Kankkunen. Definitely one of the best drivers the wrc had.
Can’t talk Rally drivers without mentioning Colin McCrae
How many championships did he win?
He was easily the most spectacular driver.
That doesn't mean he's one of the best though
@@Franko384Makinen destroyed him, then Peugeot came with an unbelievable car and before you know it his career was over 😢 broke my heart because he was great to watch but he threw away so many victories for no reason. The whole 1996 he smashed the Impreza to bits, in 2001 he was faster than Burns in GB and was cutting all the apexes even when he had a healthy margin and destroyed the car and chance to be world champ. Great wrc character though.
Ott Tänak wouldve have 2 titels but in 2018 his Toyota had to much reliability issus
That's true! It was so close all the way to the end of the season. The moment in Sardinia when his power steering failed was heartbreaking.
@@rallybeast The power steering issue was in 2019. The issues with hyundai seem to be worse than when he left toyota
i love your voice, Would you like to participate as NACAM's season recap narrator?
Thank you! I might be interested in doing that. What's a good email to reach you at?
Who is the Ayton Senna of the WRC?
Probably Makinen or Gronholm. Loeb is Schumacher and Ogier is Hamilton.
most legendary drivers are named sebastien.
Loeb's almost 10 in a row made It boring those years that It reminded me of lancias tenure where they quit because everyone knew they would win...
I wont like to see that many wins In a row, not because the driver Is too good but because If you already know who will win before the 3rd race of the season then It ruins the fun...
Completely agree! The same thing happened in F1 with the Hamilton dominance. A lot of fans lost interest in WRC during the two Seb's dominant years. It does showcase the skill of the drivers but gets very boring for the fans.
Ott and puma 👍👍
It will be very exciting to see!
It's my hobby
Loeb = goat
What about ken block
He never won a rally championship in his time competing.
mikkola, alen, vatanen, rohrl, stig, loeb, kankunnen, ragnotti, mcrae, henri...... its not all about winning
If it’s not about winning, what is it about?
@@rallybeast style, personality,the rallies themselves, determination, competition....... compare the drivers from say 84 to those 20 year later, a lot easier to win when youve only got 5 rivals instead of 25
rohrl, mikkola, blomquist, eklund, mouton. lampi, darniche, buffum, recalde, alen, andruet, bettega, toivonen, preston jnr, salonen, kaby, mehta, kirkland, airikkala, therier, saby, chatriot, ragnotti, auriol, biasion, warmbold, carlsson, johnsson, frequelin, aaltonen, mcrae, brookes, waldegard, kankkunen, munari, vatanen, nicholas, al hajri, clark, grundel as opposed to just 16 in 2014 when ogier won, no contest
@@paulnutter1713 its the same for Loeb.. he win ALWAYS without competitors but with mediocre drivers Like.. duval, Wilson, prokop,Galli, rautembak, pasonen,villagra.. I prefer the 1 title of auriol win against McRae Sainz kankkunen biasion ecc... Put Loeb race in 98 season when race for the victory 13 wrc Champions, kankkunen McRae Sainz makinen burns auriol + many tarmac safari and snow Specialist like panizzi delecour liatti bugalski Eriksson Duncan... and Peugeot Subaru Skoda Mitsubishi Seat Ford not only Ford and Citroen.... Stay sure that Loeb win 0 not fure 9 titles...
Walter Röhrl.
forgot the best of them all....Henri Toivonen
Toivonen was a great driver, but he never won a championship.
الله ي الله دخيلك مهضووومين الله ي هوووزء وخفاف بالجح خلوكم ع خبالكم لا يغنين بحطون اليوم العالمي للبطيخ في السطح الفضائي
Don't think so!!
Kalle rovernpera