Losing Body Fat or Gaining Muscle Mass: Which is more important? (Audio Only)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2018
- Mark Rippetoe reads his article about the importance of gaining muscle mass, especially in older populations.
Full text of the article is available here: startingstrength.com/article/...
Find a Coach: startingstrength.org/site/coa...
Starting Strength Gyms: www.startingstrengthgyms.com
Find an affiliate: startingstrength.com/gyms/aff...
Become a Starting Strength Coach: startingstrength.com/careers
Starting Strength Online Coaching: startingstrengthonlinecoachin...
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Week 3 Day 3 // DFM vs PRX | DRX vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/il3Twexat3A/mqdefault.jpg)
Anytime I want to lose faith in humanity, I just come here and read the armchair comments from Internet badasses. I was doing my squats today watching a fat guy do tricep kickbacks. I was thinking, "Man, he just needs to do basic barbell stuff, he'd progress so much faster." But then I realized I'd have to share the squat rack. F*ck that.
Story of my life! Walk in to the gym every time praying no one is doing curls or 100# squats with a bar cusion.
Women in the gym ARGH!!!!
@@LiftOffLife Nah man... that's motivating!
The beauty of having a garage gym. The best thing ever. Invest on squat rack, barbell, & weights. Craigslist.
😂
Unless you are losing body fat due to starvation and not to exercise, muscle can grow as fat declines... But muscle will decline due to atrophy, if you are not progressively overloading... Rip’s method will make you stronger and leaner, done right... Keep safe and strong...
Not true. You’re either catabolic or anabolic.
@@jerrythomas4457 Whenever you are not eating, you are fasting and losing weight. Whenever you are eating, you are gaining weight. You can be both catabolic and anabolic within the same week, possibly even the same day. I hope if you are training to both increase muscle mass and lose weight, that your program lasts longer than 1 week.
@@nathannewman6555 “ fasting” is skipping a meal. Less calories. If you eat in a calorie deficit you will lose weight (catabolic). If you eat in a calorie surplus you will gain weight ( anabolic). It does not matter if you ( fast) or not. If fast for 24 hours then eat 6000 calories the next day you will gain weight.
@@jerrythomas4457 This depends you can actually build muscle and lose fat at the same time however, this is typically the case for people training the right way for building muscle and strength and who are at a higher bodyfat percentage.
Dad is that you?
"...The longer you can hold out, when things get weird"
- Rip
“Die-uh-beat-us”
Not I: thinnuh beat me! (just kidding)
Rip makes 60 sound cool. I'm gonna get so freaking strong!
Justin Bordwell Knocking at the door of 60, so I’m working hard to keep strong...
This video is pretty informative, and I want to present this information to my older clients who are just starting.
Thank you Mark! Very nice explanation
A lot of comments sound like he is saying an obese person should gain weight. Am I the only person who heard him describe obese people and then say, "but I am not talking about you?"
Most people only respond to what they hoped you said.
No, you mis-heard what he said. He said, "morbidly obese." That's a medical category with a specific definition different from just "obese." Pay attention. Parse his words carefully to get the most out of them. Don't take this personally. Just wise up. **DISREGARD THIS** It was in error. See david below for clarity. My bad.
I have heard the same criticism of the starting strength program all over. One involves drinking whole milk, and the other is the fact that a program called “STARTING strength “ does not work past the novice stage. I think Mark is right when he says that the majority of the criticism made against him are arguments that people think he made instead of arguments he actually made
@@1cathexis 2:10
@@david52875 OK! Now, a year later I re-listen to catch your reference to 2:10. I take that to mean the "you" he refers to is NOT morbidly obese. If that's what you mean then you are right and I was wrong to think it was all about applying his principles to the morbidly obese. I have edited the prior post and referenced your correction. Hope this helps!
If the answer was any different, we wouldn’t need Mr Rippetoe to provide it
Of course, we all know what the answer is going to be. 😉
Another great one
Hip drive
True :D
Losing fat. AND gaining muscle. Rippetoe has a good program but he doesn't know what hes talking about regarding body composition. Hes OBSESSED with strenght at any cost.
I love this guy
I just started lifting and I have seen a huge difference in my blood sugar.
You need to do both (increase muscle mass and reduce body fat). The build up of visceral fat is very unhealthy, regardless of whether you are carrying a significant amount of muscle or not. Visceral fat interferes with the liver, pancreas, heart and the vascular system. Strength conditioning is an essential element of training for all ages, particularly people entering the last quartile of their lives. The breakdown of muscle tissue and reduction in bone density that takes place in old age is terrible for health.
I agree . But are we correct?
Great upload. Was goinng to post something sarcastic but that got pretty serious.
Good stuff
Diabeetus!! The new Wilford Brimely lol
I like this.
depends on the person and their age i believe...mature adults need more muscle indeed..asap...gotta have more muscle as we age for sure.
I myself am a kidney transplant patient. I was in ICU for a month and I went from 80 KG to 49 KG and I make sure if I had stayed couple more days I would be dead and I can ensure this guy knows the shit
Could go for some chips and queso
I'm the first to say abs look godly. But the old statues of Greece and Rome are a far cry from the dysmorphia pushed today. The "dry" and "shredded" look being pushed today is a product of the MSM and Joe Weider is no less guilty than anyone else. Social media is also a huge problem. There is nothing wrong with not even having abs if you have a healthy fat ratio.
Nothing wrong with it, but you'd like to have them (visible). No doubt about that.
I agree.
Even some elite athletes like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers are nowhere near 6 pack. Some men just don't get that look even when exercising rigorously and dialing in the right diet like TB12.
@@keithbarbaro7590 ur exactly right. Look at the kinobody kid. He just posted a video claiming his new diet is Nutella and Chipotle. He has a gifted physique but sells really stupid advice
Yea key word there is "sells". He's a dime a dozen on TH-cam and he's part of the problem, not the solution. Benching with bumper plates is actually a new low.
Actually, if ypu have no VISIBLE abs. At least SOME you're obese.
Rip is trying to build the next CrossFit in the most obese country of the world and one that is rapidly aging. What do you think he’s going to say?
I’m 23% body fat, I wanna lose about 10% percent, but I still wanna gain muscle as I wanna progress on my main lifts in the gym, I have been making progress on all my lifts, but I don’t know if it’s the right way to do it
At 23% bf there's two ways to get down 10%. You can gain weight where the vast majority of it is muscle mass and you're bf% will go down. Or you can diet down, losing primarily fat, and you're bf% will go down. Realistically, you'll have to do a combination of the two but you cannot do both simultaneously. If you want to gain muscle and progress on your lifts your only option is to start with option 1 (try gaining 0.5lb a week for a few months). Then eventually you'll have to go for option 2 because option 1 only works for so long.
If you're a fat fuck/out of shape you can certainly do both at the same time. Happens every day.
You just have to cut. You might lose a bit of muscle but if you do it right it will be minimal. If you did what this video said and kept bulking you would be stronger but you would also be fat.. I wouldn't apply what a 60yr tells you about body composition.
Beno C okay yeah I thought so, but does it mean I won’t be building muscle? I have been eating a cutting diet in which I eat starchy carbs post workout only, and on normal days have chicken/fish, veg and a piece of fruit, I have been following this for the past month my weight hasn’t dropped as much as I thought it would although I feel leaner
@@mohafzal2790 I'm no expert but as long as you get enough protein your loses will be minimal. Like he says in this video, you can't cut without some muscle loss and you can't gain without fat gain. If you want to drop body fat you have to eat at a calorie deficit, it does not matter what type of calories those are, carb or fat.
So as I get older, increased muscles mass, excess body fat and expensive alcohol are going to help me live longer. Please tell me that fine cigars will help as well.
Pipes and cigars always help!
Man I follow your video a lot but only audio ... Is too much sleepy ... Plz put images
It's them beautiful Texan tones
Why not do both
Because that force Rip to admit that his lifestyle isn't optimal for health outcomes and that strength, as amazing as it is, in not a magic cure all to all of life's ills. Of course shredded single digit weights are overrated both from aesthetics and health points of view, but being north of 20-22ish is not. His former colleagues (now at Barbell Medicine) recommend that men should be under 40" at their waist to be "lean enough" for health purposes. It can vary by height/ethnicity/sex etc.. but its a good heuristic to use in general.
Exactly. Agree 100%. See my other comment here. I dont think a 36" or 38" waist is healthy in any circumstance, no matter your other body proportions. Higher waist circumference is associated with metabolic syndrome, obesity, and early death. A man should be no more than 34", a woman 28".
@@TheGreektrojan that's what I took from this video. Justification for having high body fat as long as you're strong..
Re3iRtH lol no more than 34? I think Jordan was 33 with shredded abs. The data supports a 40 inch cutoff, you’re suggesting something half a foot under that as an absolute limit.
@@SomethingWylde Jordan Peterson maybe. And 33" is less than 34". Probably an outlier. Most folks with healthy bf don't have a waist that big. There is no evolutionary advantage for a 40" waist. It's unhealthy.
What about recomp? You gain muscle and you lose fat at the same time
That’s about as real as Bigfoot
@@jerrythomas4457 If you read the ''clarification'' article by rip. You will see that if you are 30% bodyfat and novice. Its easy and possible to recomp
very interesting! I loved everything but was confused at the eat chips on the coach and you'll gain fat and muscle mass, makes sense but it doesn't sound healthy..the idea to gain with muscle mass should come from clean whole foods with the key ingredient movement..
He was just showing that the extreme lazy person will gain some fat and muscle by just eating alone.
lol, ketel one.
Cheap alcohol = bad. Expensive alcohol = good ;)
Well yeah, forces you to drink less lol
I've notice that cutting weight seemed to decrease my ability to move heavy objects around in and out of the gym. I've heard similar comments from people my wife trains with. I've stopped focusing on pure strength gains and feel a bit better with a bit less on my frame but I don't have any desire for a six pack.
I'm super ridiculously really really good looking so it's ok....
That said the obesity problem is, in my humble personal opinion, has turned into an outright moral problem. Somethings wrong with our culture.
I'm pretty sure if someone is obese, their first priority is losing body fat and not setting PR's in the gym. Don't get me wrong, they should still be strength training, but their emphasis should be on conditioning and dropping body fat as a novice...
I think Rip was going for a 1 step back 2 steps forward approach. If someone is obese, they are going to have to diet for a long time. If they are obese, having them focus on strength training will build their confidence and will result in muscle gain which may not show up on the scale but will show up in composition, again boosting confidence. From here their metabolic rate is up from the muscle mass and they are more inclined to be consistent because they are seeing positive results. If they were 30% bf to start, but added 5lbs of muscle and some fat, their bf% by default has gone down. And they can now start a cut from a higher set point of calorie intake so they won't feel starved.
So you are suggesting, for someone who is obese, to GAIN fat just to put on a few pounds of muscle? They should be put into a caloric deficit immediately. They should run a novice linear progression with a focus on conditioning. This way they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. While they won't be gaining as much muscle as they would if they were in a caloric surplus, they would be a lot better off doing it the way I suggested. Gaining fat while already obese for the sake of adding as much muscle as possible is ludicrous.
RIP reading comprehension. You cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. At no point did I say they should gain fat for the sake of adding as much muscle as possible.
If I was coaching a 30% bf person, I would have them continue eating as normal but get 3 months of SS into them and a few 10min brisk walks per day to build confidence and consistency. Their body composition could change in all sorts of ways that either shows up as weight loss or gain, but they likely would have gained some muscle and a LITTLE fat, that's just how the body works. And if they gained 4lbs of muscle and 1 lb of fat, their bf% by default has gone down. Except, 4lbs of muscle increases their metabolic rate and a cascade of other positive benefits. They will look and feel better and be confident (because they are getting strong too). From here they can start dieting down and are likely to stick to it. Good luck coaching someone obese to immediately start cutting weight AND lifting AND conditioning. Wiling to bet you my client is still in the gym making progress in 9 months and yours has dropped you and is back on the couch.
#1 "but added 5lbs of muscle and some fat" You literally said added some fat... So no, my reading comprehension is just fine..
#2 You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time if you are an obese novice.... This is a fucking fact... End of story.
#3 Everything you said is based on a belief (#2) you hold that is completely wrong.... An obese person who is novice can lose fat, gain muscle, and get stronger while in a caloric deficit... adding 15lbs of muscle and losing some fat compared to gaining only 7lbs of muscle and losing a lot of fat in those same 3 months is a lot more productive...
"If they were 30% bf to start, but added 5lbs of muscle and some fat," Gaining 5 lbs. of muscle is also going to take some time, even for a person completely new to weight training.
"their bf% by default has gone down." This is true mathematically. However, the person's ABSOLUTE amount of fat has actually increased. I am not sure that this is healthy, especially if the obese person is already suffering from the negative effects of obesity, such as diabetes.
"And they can now start a cut from a higher set point of calorie intake so they won't feel starved." If by set point you mean the amount of calories needed to maintain current bodyweight, your conclusion is not correct. Any time caloric intake falls below maintenance levels, the body will sense it is being deprived and react accordingly whether that maintenance level is 2,000 calories or 4,000 calories.
I am a big believer in strength training, but you cannot solve every problem with strength training. Unfortunately, strength training is Rippetoe's only tool, and if your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.
I guess that grandpa in the thumbnail is the strongest guy the gym
*I HAB DIABEETUS*
Mark doesn't seem to care about anything BUT lifting and lifting form, which is sad
I am obese, I need to gain muscle.
Breathing exercises a shortcut to better cardio ability.
Gallon of milk a day will do the trick.
"Diabetes" is not pronounced that way. Look at the spelling. It isn't "diabetis."
Muscles burn fat, without muscle there is no fat burning. So don't starve for food, just starve for movement
Muscle mass? Wtf kind of question is that.
Rip - informative video. However, you don't need to (not so subtly) justify being a fat ass with muscle. A high body fat is unhealthy, period.
Not even remotely what he suggested. I have a feeling a lot of the people you think are fat with muscle just don't fit your social media infused perspective of what "healthy" looks like. I have a feeling you're the type of person to suggest that Ben Pollack or Kevin Oak have a "big gut" when in fact that's what a truly strong core looks like
@@TuLegitify A large waist circumference is associated with increased mortality. Period. Even Rip knows this. I have a 28.5in. waist with ripped obliques and I can deadlift 2X my bodyweight without "strength training". Fat doesn't help you move weight. It only makes you insulin resistant.
oh wow I'm so surprised you have no idea how stats work. Sure, a large waist circumference is associated with mortality. Venture to guess why? Is it because in a study of the general population, people with large waist are just simply obese? Could it be that the study that did this didn't control for weightlifters?
No one cares about your 28.5in waist or 2x bodyweight deadlift (that could be a 320lbs for all I know). I have no idea when Rip or I said fat helps you move weight (besides having your hormones in check). Did you even listen to the video? Do you not have the critical thinking skills to understand that he said in an elderly population it would be beneficial to have muscle mass and a LITTLE extra bodyfat (not be shredded, maybe 15%) so that if sickness makes you lose weight you have some reserves to tap into?
@@TuLegitify Weightlifters don't live long. Where are the Russian and Bulgarian weightlifters from the 1950s and 60s that are living into their 90s and above? Do you see them, because I don't. The people that lived the longest are generally sedentary, and do stuff like light walking and gardening. Look at 100 and 110 year olds. Commonly, they have a large social community, family members around them, and exert themselves little beyond gardening. Look it up. Given that, all these populations incidentally have a small waist circumference. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Wow you are really something else. I say weightlifters and you automatically jump to Russian and Bulgarian Olympic weightlifters on steroids competing well past the point of health benefits. This is some really impressive critical thinking on your part. The longest living people sure, thus far have historically been pescatarians that are mobile and doing light exercise with a big social circle. But in terms of longer than average or average longevity with high QUALITY of life, it is common knowledge weight lifting and the muscle mass that comes with it is the key. Strength training beyond a certain point becomes unhealthy in terms of longevity--this usually means competing at a high level isn't healthy long-term. I can't believe you tried to prove your point about general longevity and health by jumping to olympic weightlifters and centenarians. Please stop digging yourself a bigger hole. You keep harping about waist circumference even though people store body fat differently, it's such simplistic thinking.
The oldest people I've seen, are pretty thin, some tall, some small. And they walk a lot. Just look at Reagan - was he fat? Carter - is he fat? The queen Elizabeth and her not so fat husband? Look at the people around you - the oldest are generally the thinnest ones. Yes, we have Churchill, who was fat, nut lived to 90; yes, we have Kissinger, who's 95, though is pretty fat(both of his parents lived 96-97 years). But again, as far as I can see, fat in most cases is a morbid person. Of course, it's better to be fat AND strong. But sometimes it's just not enough.
Agree 100%. The healthiest and longest lived individuals are thin and have a small waist. Its not rocket science.
@Frank Burjan THATS the right answer...
@Frank Burjan thanks for responding!! I wile 63 in January.....Help me figure out how o get like
this..
@Frank Burjan THANKS for the tips!! I have been on a little workout routine these past few months. I will change it up to this/pick up the effort for the next month or so...and keep at it.
@Frank Burjan Thanks again Frank...I started today overhead press/military. 10 sets of 10. I did 25 kettlebell swings in between sets. I used pretty light weight. I was complete in about 40 minutes. .I plan to backpack tomorrow...and add more weight next week. I will be 63 January 23 and wanted to start today to have 1 month complete. THANKS for being a positive supporter!!
Intermittent fasting is the answer. Could be 16/8 or even OMAD. You don't even need to worry about calories.
@Becoming Godsize well its easier to eat 5000 kcal spread throughout the day than eating it in a time window
@Becoming Godsize you try and eat 5000 quality calories in one hour
Okay, so OMAD + heavy compounds = i/train in a fasted (catabolic) state or ii/eating one's entire daily cals (2-3 hours) before training & then no food until the next day??? Personally, I wouldn't even bother.
Sure, you'll burn fat, but muscle building will be seriously hampered, not to mention endocrine disturbances across the board. In that scenario, it would be better to do more of HIIT type of workout
So many armchair biochemists. It's fine. If you wanna get big eat enough protein for your body weight and carbs when you train. Eat protein and fats when you don't. Keep your feeding window tight so you get the boost in HGH. For everyone who doesn't know look up Peter Attia and Jason Fung. You can get bigger and not terribly fat, but you do have to eat, a lot. It's very uncomfortable to eat 5k calories in 4-6 hours, and you'll be shitting a lot, but it's doable and you'll make gains.
You mean missing meals? That’s less calories
Walk in an “ old folks home”. The ones inside are skinny women. You don’t see fat old people.
Rip, I highly appreciate your work and this chan and everything, but this argument is BS, sorry. You turn the cause and result around, people don't die because they loose 40% of their muscle mass, they loose their last muscles because they are dying, because they are sick, or tired or whatever the cause is that their bodies give up. People these days suffer from metabolic disease, they have a hormonal imbalance, that's why they get high blood pressure and atherosclerosis and diabetes and they die from strokes and CVD and cancer, and many get obese yes. Its all related. And being able to lift double your bodyweight will not solve that problem.
But Rip thinks a big waist and obesity are perfectly fine and healthy if you can squat 400 and DL 500.
@@Re3iRtH Your statement is clearly false. In Rip's article "A Clarification", he clearly state "In this demographic you’re too fat if you’re over 20% and underweight if you’re less than 10%" and "This will allow your bodyfat levels to drop back to where they need to be, in the range of 15-17%, normal for athletic males in our demographic."
@@indominusolympus8802 Unfortunately for you (and maybe Rip), Rip is by no means the authority on health or obesity. 20 and 10 are arbitrary round numbers which have no basis in reality. 20% is way way too high esp. if you have a large waist circumference. The SS crowds by way of Rip uses this nonsense to make obesity okay if you can squat or DL 500.
Your body doesn't just "give up" and you can fix many health related diseases by creating muscle mass by training and not eating complete garbage and treating your insulin like a biological roller coaster. Anyone who educates themselves and trains seriously understands and expericances that first hand when they look around at the rest of the people NOT doing these necessary things.
I do both at the same time on steroids. 💉💊
Stop eating so much. There is no protein deficiency in America. However, almost everyone is fat.
It should be pointed out that the man attached to the voice in this video is overweight. And not just because he is strong, he has a massive gut, he is fat.