@@travis0203 I was born in 1983 and I would love to see Shoeless Joe finally get inducted but it'll never happen. The fact is, he did take the money but he was ignorant and was only going along with the rest of the team. He never once tried to throw any of those games. He batted like .375 and the series only homerun was hit by him. Not to mention he didn't commit one error. That's not a guy that was trying to lose.
@@Snatchystashy Look at the home and away stats. HE was in on it, but like you said he was also ignorant. Rose def can't be in, but I have more pity for Jackson.
Joe Jackson served his unfair sentence of a lifetime ban. Not an eternal ban. It is time to right this wrong. Lift the suspension and vote Joe Jackson into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
@MUFC Baseball is still the Number 1 sport in America (some will argue that football is and I won't completely disagree) and will be for a long time to come. American sports fans, at this time, don't care that much about soccer. Professional baseball teams play 162 regular season games and every game of every team is broadcasts on radio daily and a lot of those same games are televised daily. There is also the play-offs and the World Series which are televise and broadcast on the radio. Can soccer say the same thing? Not in America! Baseball is also broadcast in Latin American countries in their native language. The only time soccer is broadcast in English, in America, is when an American team is competing for the World Championship and some of the play-off games. Now you say soccer will be Number 1 in 2070 or maybe 2100 and maybe it will be, BUT you and I and all the readers here today are not going to be here to see that happen. So, what's your point?
He should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame along side the man who copied his swing and said of him "Shoeless Joe Jackson was the greatest natural hitter to have ever played the game of baseball " Babe Ruth
I'm from Cincinnati, and a Pete rose fan and I agree, I also believe that shoeless Joe's needs to be unbanned before Rose. bullshit what happened and ill never go to the HOF because of it.
We need to have a " Shoeless Day " here in Chicagoland every year to raise funds for our beloved Joe. With big money 💰 we can take legal action for as long as it takes to get this man some Justice in America 🇺🇸 where we live free or Die.
Ive never watched a baseball game but got interested in Shoeless Joe after Field of Dreams. Seems like he was an innocent party in all this. If he was as good as everyone says then he should be in the hall of fame for sure.
@@metfan68 You think so? I know Cobb had great respect for Joe's swing and perhaps thought him the most natural hitter he saw, but all around ball player? I wonder about Ruth too. In any event, perhaps you're right, and they were too.
@@metfan68 Fair enough. And if Ruth and Cobb think so, why not? Would've loved to have seen him play. If you have not read ''Ty Cobb: A terrible beauty'', I highly suggest it to an old school baseball fan such as yourself. Turned the negative myths about Cobb right over and dove deep into that turn of the Century era when baseball was at it's best, or at least most interesting. (to me). All the best!
Non sequitur. Jackson's suspension was a direct result of actions directly affecting the game. No one cares what else he or his accusers may have had in their closets.
Could you tell me how you get the rights to use that music? Love the video. Would also love to see a swing of joe jackson if you know of any video. Thanks!
This excellent video presents a very persuasive case for enshrining Joe Jackson in the baseball HOF. Shoeless Joe seemed to be a man of integrity despite his questionable involvement in the throwing of the 1919 World Series. I believe that Joe should be inducted into the HOF, perhaps with an asterisk explaining the circumstances and reason for his ban from baseball.
Did anyone else notice Jacksons stats in the series. He hit the only home run, he stole bases, he hit for average, he threw runners out, but he is still blamed. It should be the MLB scandal.
@mksrookies. Good post, but Weaver was in as deep as anyone. Chick Gandil gave an interview where he said that it was Weaver who suggested playing one group of gamblers against the others. And if Weaver didn't play bad to save face, he also screwed his team mates. A lot of people (not saying you) want Weaver absolved because of the sympathetic way he was portrayed in the movie Eight Men Out.
@@ohger1 I am sure that the only knowledge of the scandal that most people have is from the movie. We all know how the makers of movies "based on a true story" take great pains to ensure that everything is accurate.
@@ohger1 I actually read about Chick Gandil. He had a reputation for having a temper to the point of which he'd strike officials(umpires). I also read "The Ginger Kid: The Buck Weaver Story." It mentions Buck not wanting nor involving himself in the fix; therefore, I wonder a bit about the credibility of Gandil's story. Also Buck said something to the effect of his "being free" once the trial was over within earshot of Judge Landis. I guess it goes to the phrase "Never assume."
The greatest baseball player ever and scapegoated . R.I.P. Shoeless Joe Jackson.Hes Playing baseball with Jesus and God now .From the World series to the Eternal series. Shoeless Joe Jackson is in the Hall of Eternal Glory with Jesus and The Creator. A much better place than man's Hall of Fame.Amen.🇺🇸⚾️🕊⛑️🇺🇸⚾️🕊
Will Major League Baseball Ever Forgive? ... Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb and Ted Williams are often considered the greatest hitters to ever live - but - when each of the were asked who they thought was the best hitter - their answer was the same ... "Joe Jackson was the finest natural hitter, ever". Check out Joe's lifetime stats - Check out his 1919 World Series stats. Joe was unceremoniously banned from baseball - for life - in 1921. He died in his bedroom (now our Museum) in 1951. The man served his sentence and more. Will Major League Baseball Ever Forgive? ... Mike Wallach - Managing Director of the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum in Greenville, SC
For anyone interested, there's a very cool song concerning Shoeless Joe by Murray Head, also covered by the Who, called Say It Ain't So Joe. Both versions are good.
With the Houston Astros 2017 World Series team not being banned from baseball forever for cheating, means that Major League Baseball should reinstate the 1919 White Sox, and the GREAT Shoeless Joe Jackson !!
Nice film. I think baseball often gets caught up in its own self-importance, failing to forgive certain deeds of misconduct while giving a free pass to others. In a game where errors are a part of the daily box score, shouldn't errors of judgment be noted and accepted?
" shouldn't errors of judgment be noted and accepted?" No. If you can present an argument that says Joe Jackson did not know about the fix, then I'd be willing to let him into the HOF. But Landis' brutal judgement against any player who even knew about the fix and didn't report it was just what was needed at that time.
@@ohger1 Pretty sure I watched this video and it said he DID try to report it and remove himself from it, unless I'm misunderstanding. You must walk on water, sir.
@@MrPSzebra Here's an excerpt from an article on the subject, link at the end: "Jackson said. “I didn’t want to play hard after I heard what was going on. But I had to play and I did play.”Near the end of his life, Jackson repeated this story in 1949 to Furman Bisher and in 1951 to John Carmichael, both writing for Sport magazine.24 But his claim went virtually unnoticed at the time, despite the serious implication that Jackson had tried to inform White Sox officials of the fix before the Series began and they had ignored him.... But did it ever happen? The reliability of Jackson’s claim is still heavily disputed. He had two chances to tell this story under oath - during his grand jury testimony in 1920 and his civil-trial deposition in 1923 - but never said a word about asking to be taken out of the lineup. He also didn’t mention it in a long feature profile that appeared in The Sporting News in 1942, written by his old friend Scoop Latimer of Greenville.26 The Furman Bisher interview from 1949 contains a number of details that are inaccurate, such as Jackson misremembering how many outfield assists he had during the World Series, or other anecdotes that cannot be corroborated. In the end, only these vague quotations from Jackson’s interviews remain - a tantalizing piece to the puzzle that may never be connected for sure." sabr.org/research/no-solid-front-silence-forgotten-black-sox-scandal-interviews
The more I read and hear of this man, the more convicted I am -- HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST -- ever. So why the f is he not in the HOF? Come on -- we have plenty of "heroes" in baseball who "tarnished" themselves far more before its fans. Sosa. Bonds. McGuire. Canseco. Pete Rose. I am quite sure you can add many to the list. So. How is the "roids" era any worse than what this acquitted man suffered? I say -- the case cannot be made. Let this man into the Hall of Fame. He more than earned it.
As posted above, Jackson gave a confession to the prosecution in the court case that he was part of the fix. While I agree that it is 100 years ago and everyone who witnessed those games is now dead, given that he admitted it, it would be very difficult to put him in the Hall.
Great video. The only thing that is not correct is that the White Sox we’re underpaid. The Sox had the highest payroll in baseball that year. Over 93k.
NOT PETE ROSE --- He continuously and DELIBERATELY broke the CARDINAL RULE in baseball. N O B E T T I N G on baseball games --- P E R I O D , Tremendous player ,but, BREAK THE RULE--- PAY THE PRICE.
@@genehollon1472 oh stop. If people can repeatedly take drugs and be allowed to play, take roids and be allowed to play and get on the ballot......your argument is invalid. It’s a terrible double standard.
@@genehollon1472 I heard Ralph Kiner, who was then on the "oldtimers committee" of the Hall of Fame on MLB network one day say that the committee had evidence that, when he was managing the Reds, Rose bet against the Reds... Not good - and very tough to put him in the Hall if that is true.
Sounds like some revisionism here. Apparently a lot of his contemporaries didn't like Joe. When Ty Cobb stopped by his liquor store in the late 40s, Joe tried to ignore him. Finally after paying, Cobb said "Hey Joe, don't you know me?" Joe replied, "Sure I do, Ty, but I wasn't sure you wanted to know me. A lot of them don't". I didn't google this, so it may not be verbatim, but is essentially what was said. He assumed Ty would be pissed at him for either throwing the series or having been believed to have, and this was many years later, and apparently he had got enough negative feedback from other players that he figured the sentiment was near universal. You can play really well and still make a key misplay or strikeout and lose the series. It's been so long and his grandkids have likely all passed on I'm not sure there's a point in even considering him for the hall. Imagine if 100 years from now Barry Bonds still hasn't made the hall, I would say time had judged him not worthy.
I agree that there is no video evidence, but Jackson, along with Cicotte and Williams all gave confessions of being in on the fix. Very difficult to put him in the Hall of Fame with that out there.
Kennesaw Mountain Landis was a drunk and a rager (who probably hated life)...therefore Joe's banishment isn't fully legit. Please let Shoeless Joe into the Baseball Hall of Fame. He deserves it. Joe has millions of fans.
TheFarmerfitz Classic. You’re not wrong. I’m sat here on a Tuesday night in Bristol, England. Watching Field of Dreams. “If you build it he will come” 😂
Field of dreams, and the movie "Cobb", did Ty Cobb so wrong. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were friends, Cobb was an influencer of desegregating the leagues, had many black friends, numerous fans and admirers. He built a hospital in his name, and once when asked of Willie Mays, he responded, "Willie Mays is the only player I would pay to watch play". Others said, "It is more exciting watching Ty Cobb draw a walk, than it is watching Ruth hit a homerun". Because the 1st player ever inducted into baseballs hall of fame wasn't Ruth, it was Ty Cobb. His record of stealing home plate 54 times in his 23 year career, still hasn't been broken. It was incredibly more exciting watching Cobb, than Ruth, because Cobb once stole 2nd base, 3rd base, and home plate in only (3) pitches. That which we will never get to see, and yet the stories of other ball player's exist, and so these stories live forever.
once they took the money the outcome of the series was affected no matter whether they actually tried to throw the series or not the very fact that they entertained this idea and planned it changed the future and jackson was part of the scheme even if he did not try to throw the series they lost the series without needing jackson to lay down but jackson was still potentially available since he took the money and would be liable a player who sits on the bench and doesnt play still gets a ring if his team wins and can still affect the game from sitting on the bench jackson by taking the money affected the outcome of the series regardless of how he played in fact even if the white sox had won the series they might still be banned becuz win/lose the series was altered by the players accepting money even if they changed their minds and won the series the outcome is affected one can argue that they now had extra motivation to win to get themselves off the hook so they took more chances and played more aggressively its not just whether they lost on purpose its also whether the outcome changed which it did
There's a picture where Jackson was indeed involved with baseball after suspension. At 3:12 there's Jackson and the Babe. Ruth was wearing the visiting Yankees uniform in the picture.
While I disagree with the "greatest" label, Jackson was great, and belongs in the HOF, as does Pete Rose. Rose's transgressions happened after his playing career. His actual career is the stuff of legend. I used to hate him until he played for my Phillies, at which time I was glad he was on MY team. As a player, he had a huge impact on the game. Like Cobb, his drive kept him healthy for 24 seasons-a tremendous record for guys who went all-out on the field. No one thought that anyone would surpass Cobb's 4,191 career hits. Rose did it, even though his lifetime BA was 60 points lower than Cobb's .368. The greatest hitter of all time was really Rogers Hornsby. The other top hitters (all time) were left handed hitters, which means they had the big advantage of facing mostly right handed pitching. For Hornsby to hit a career .358 with 475 HR puts Rogers in a class by himself.
Actually, the 1919 White Sox had the highest payroll in the AL that year. And the Commissioners lifetime ban was about not only throwing games, but also participating in meetings where discussion of games being thrown took place. In Jacksons case, he took $5,000 for throwing games, whether he actively threw them or not. We have no real video from the 1919 WS so it is hard to say what he did or did not do.
Jackson was a superior ballplayer, no doubt, but, it was Babe Ruth who saved the game of baseball.......almost all by himself....after what the "Black Sox" did in 1919 . No one can compare with Ruth. Arguably the best left handed pitcher in the major leagues BEFORE he became a full time slugger....No one has done THAT !!! Pitchers of today are WIMPS compared to Ruth, who pitched the longest complete world series game of 14 straight innings !! He also pitched 29 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series.......a record that stood unchallenged until Whitey Ford broke it in 1961. In Babe Ruth’s 1916 season as a pitcher, his record was 23 Wins and 170 Strikeouts, with a 1.75 ERA, 9 Shutouts and 23 Complete Games . It is a shame that Jackson was involved in the tarnishing of the game they all loved so much.
The hall should be what numbers were put up and what kind of player one was!!! Rose in, This guy in and guys who wre good and have close numbers like Mattingly,Garvey,Murphy all should be in!!! It only makes it that much better period!!!
Mattingly... Boy I remember when watching the Yankees was only worth doing for his at bats and fielding. Unfortunately, while he was the best ball player in MLB for 5 years, his back cut his career short and cost him the HOF and probably a WS ring.
Christy Mathewson was watching the games with Ring Lardner. They sensed something was fishy. They agreed to keep track independently of who they thought was tanking. They both picked the same 7 players. That included Joe Jackson. I trust Mathewson's judgement.
What does Landis bigotry have to do with whether or not Jackson was guilty? Jackson took the money and confessed. To deny he was part of it is foolish. You can say he deserves to be in the hall anyway, but he took it. Case closed. And no, Jackson did not go to Comiskey, Buck Weaver did.
Jonah Platt Framed by whom and how? Have you read his grand jury testimony? He readily admits it. And contemporaneous reporting by most writers agree he clearly was not playing to his full abilities in the first 3 games.
@@gedalia3 I tried to be polite before, genitalia. Now the gloves are off. Shut up. Don't open your mouth again. You say shit like that again, you'll get punkslapped.
Despite weighing only 195 pounds, Jackson could bench press 475 pounds, an amazing total for that day. And as a golfer, he hit so many holes-in-one that he was banned from his community golf course. This was a man born to achieve in the world of sports.
I sure would like to know where you read this stuff because Shoeless Joe never got banned from a golf course because he hit too many hole in ones. That would never happen to anyone. I also highly doubt he could bench 475 lb. He was an incredible baseball player but I think you're embellishing here. If I'm wrong please tell me where to read these facts.
Yes we would. Probably not as much and obviously not for the same reason, but he was still one of the greatest hitters ever. We still talk about Cobb, Hornsby, Lajoie, et al.
It wasn’t supposedly he actually admitted he took the money. Whether he actually did do anything to throw a game matters not. He admitted taking the money it’s over. Now do I think he should be in the hall yes.
trying to understand the difference between little league baseball and Major League baseball is impossible for a poor kid in a state that does not have a MLB team. i was born and raised at South Carolina, discovered MLB after moving to Texas before my senior year of high school. kids who live at South Carolina now should be taught more about sports legends from there. i was never told about Shoeless Joe during my childhood or any thing about the Major Leagues.
The Best first basemen to play the game was also banned in 1919. Hal Chase. Babe Ruth was asked who he thought was the best first baseman was at the inaugural Hall of Fame. Ruth answered, Hal Chase. Shoeless Joe and Hal Chase should be in the Hall of Fame, neither were convicted or found guilty in the court of law.
the games he was supposed to win he hit over 500..the games he was supposed to lose he hit 250 and hit a homerun only when down 5-0 and a rbi double when down 10-1 tell the whole truth...
You are assuming that Jackson could gets hits any time he wanted. As for the last game, since the Reds had a big lead before he ever even batted, what was he supposed to do? He did his best to get the Sox back into the game; is it his fault that Sox pitching did so poorly that day?
Jackson's home run came in the final game with the Sox already down 5-0 in a game the Sox lost 10-5. Most of his hits came when they didn't effect the outcome. Jackson did take the money, and he felt guilty about it. The injustice is that the fix was the worst kept secret in baseball. When the NY mob began betting heavily on Cincinnati, even thought the White Sox were heavy favorites, most everyone in the game put 2 and 2 together, but did nothing about it. BTW, Comiskey actually paid his team pretty well. He paid the highest salaries in the game, which in those days wasn't saying much. Most players had to get winter jobs to feed the family.
@@MFPhoto1 -- You implied as much by criticizing him for waiting until the Sox were down by five runs before hitting his homer (ignoring the fact that the Reds were up by several runs before Jackson ever got to the plate). If your criticism is that he waited until the last game to homer, then what about evry other player on both teams, none of whom hit a homer in ANY game? Were they all throwing the series?
Shoeless Joe belongs into the Hall of Fame...period!
If you had every current or past MLB player vote on it Joe would be in the HOF.
And Pete Rose too!
As a person born in 1990 I find it impossible to care about Shoeless Joe Jackson being in the hall
@@travis0203 I was born in 1983 and I would love to see Shoeless Joe finally get inducted but it'll never happen. The fact is, he did take the money but he was ignorant and was only going along with the rest of the team. He never once tried to throw any of those games. He batted like .375 and the series only homerun was hit by him. Not to mention he didn't commit one error. That's not a guy that was trying to lose.
@@Snatchystashy Look at the home and away stats. HE was in on it, but like you said he was also ignorant. Rose def can't be in, but I have more pity for Jackson.
Love old Baseball stories. It's a great game, and great history.
Joe Jackson served his unfair sentence of a lifetime ban. Not an eternal ban. It is time to right this wrong. Lift the suspension and vote Joe Jackson into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
@MUFC Of course sir you are a MORON!
@MUFC Baseball is still the Number 1 sport in America (some will argue that football is and I won't completely disagree) and will be for a long time to come. American sports fans, at this time, don't care that much about soccer. Professional baseball teams play 162 regular season games and every game of every team is broadcasts on radio daily and a lot of those same games are televised daily. There is also the play-offs and the World Series which are televise and broadcast on the radio. Can soccer say the same thing? Not in America! Baseball is also broadcast in Latin American countries in their native language. The only time soccer is broadcast in English, in America, is when an American team is competing for the World Championship and some of the play-off games. Now you say soccer will be Number 1 in 2070 or maybe 2100 and maybe it will be, BUT you and I and all the readers here today are not going to be here to see that happen. So, what's your point?
Soccer is for girls
@MUFC soccer--the sport of uncoordinated white kids lmfao
@MUFC whatever garden fairy
He should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame along side the man who copied his swing and said of him "Shoeless Joe Jackson was the greatest natural hitter to have ever played the game of baseball " Babe Ruth
@Bourg Productions no he didn’t
Babe got his swing from brother Mathias and only took parts of Joe Jacksons swing
Funny how in the picture with Shoeless Joe, Ruth looks like a kid at the master’s knee.
Joe belongs in the Hall of Fame. Enough is enough.
Hall of fame uhh ya top 10 players ever
I'm from Cincinnati, and a Pete rose fan and I agree, I also believe that shoeless Joe's needs to be unbanned before Rose. bullshit what happened and ill never go to the HOF because of it.
@@The_PaleHorseman Lefty O'Doul too
Shouldn’t have thrown the series
Guilty!
Enough is Enough. Give this man his rightful place in the HOF!!!!!
We need to have a " Shoeless Day " here in Chicagoland every year to raise funds for our beloved Joe. With big money 💰 we can take legal action for as long as it takes to get this man some Justice in America 🇺🇸 where we live free or Die.
Ive never watched a baseball game but got interested in Shoeless Joe after Field of Dreams. Seems like he was an innocent party in all this. If he was as good as everyone says then he should be in the hall of fame for sure.
Guilty!
@@TheBatugan77 you were there? lol
Bravo ! One more deserved place for him on Earth.... the Hall of Fame INDEED !
Here because shoeless joe was a awesome and outstanding ball player!! Joe jackson may have struggled some but he never ever quit!
Excellent presentation.
That dude a couple comments below is right; A lifetime ban. Life over, BAN OVER. Let Joe IN!!!!!!!!
He was not the greatest ever, but he was great, and deserves to be in the hall of fame. Good vid, and nice salute to a legend!
Ty Cobb & Babe Ruth would disagree with you on that statement.
@@metfan68 You think so? I know Cobb had great respect for Joe's swing and perhaps thought him the most natural hitter he saw, but all around ball player? I wonder about Ruth too. In any event, perhaps you're right, and they were too.
@@OneEyedKeys Honestly I do. From everything I've ever read about Joe was his natural instincts on the field highlighted his abilities.
@@metfan68 Fair enough. And if Ruth and Cobb think so, why not? Would've loved to have seen him play. If you have not read ''Ty Cobb: A terrible beauty'', I highly suggest it to an old school baseball fan such as yourself. Turned the negative myths about Cobb right over and dove deep into that turn of the Century era when baseball was at it's best, or at least most interesting. (to me). All the best!
We’ll never know
Landis had his own baggage, most of it under his eyes.
You have douchebaggage
Let's peek in the closets of the people that suspended him...dang them skeletons .
Non sequitur. Jackson's suspension was a direct result of actions directly affecting the game. No one cares what else he or his accusers may have had in their closets.
Landis wasn’t even a judge or a lawyer.
@@jonathanmouton1457 He was a Federal judge from 1905-1922.
@@sdgakatbk he had no law degree.read the book.
@@jonathanmouton1457
He was a federal judge.
You're a federal idiot.
Unbelievably I cannot believe that they banned him even after trying to tell the manager what was going and that he didn't want to play cause of that
Shoeless should be in the hall of fame.
Could you tell me how you get the rights to use that music? Love the video. Would also love to see a swing of joe jackson if you know of any video. Thanks!
This excellent video presents a very persuasive case for enshrining Joe Jackson in the baseball HOF. Shoeless Joe seemed to be a man of integrity despite his questionable involvement in the throwing of the 1919 World Series. I believe that Joe should be inducted into the HOF, perhaps with an asterisk explaining the circumstances and reason for his ban from baseball.
Did anyone else notice Jacksons stats in the series. He hit the only home run, he stole bases, he hit for average, he threw runners out, but he is still blamed. It should be the MLB scandal.
@mksrookies. Good post, but Weaver was in as deep as anyone. Chick Gandil gave an interview where he said that it was Weaver who suggested playing one group of gamblers against the others. And if Weaver didn't play bad to save face, he also screwed his team mates. A lot of people (not saying you) want Weaver absolved because of the sympathetic way he was portrayed in the movie Eight Men Out.
@@ohger1 I am sure that the only knowledge of the scandal that most people have is from the movie. We all know how the makers of movies "based on a true story" take great pains to ensure that everything is accurate.
@@ohger1 I actually read about Chick Gandil. He had a reputation for having a temper to the point of which he'd strike officials(umpires). I also read "The Ginger Kid: The Buck Weaver Story." It mentions Buck not wanting nor involving himself in the fix; therefore, I wonder a bit about the credibility of Gandil's story. Also Buck said something to the effect of his "being free" once the trial was over within earshot of Judge Landis. I guess it goes to the phrase "Never assume."
It's absolute bullshit that Joe Jackson isn't in the Hall Of Fame.
Joe Jackson,Pete Rose,into the hall of fame.
The greatest baseball player ever and scapegoated . R.I.P. Shoeless Joe Jackson.Hes Playing baseball with Jesus and God now .From the World series to the Eternal series. Shoeless Joe Jackson is in the Hall of Eternal Glory with Jesus and The Creator. A much better place than man's Hall of Fame.Amen.🇺🇸⚾️🕊⛑️🇺🇸⚾️🕊
Will Major League Baseball Ever Forgive? ... Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb and Ted Williams are often considered the greatest hitters to ever live - but - when each of the were asked who they thought was the best hitter - their answer was the same ... "Joe Jackson was the finest natural hitter, ever". Check out Joe's lifetime stats - Check out his 1919 World Series stats. Joe was unceremoniously banned from baseball - for life - in 1921. He died in his bedroom (now our Museum) in 1951. The man served his sentence and more. Will Major League Baseball Ever Forgive? ... Mike Wallach - Managing Director of the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum in Greenville, SC
For anyone interested, there's a very cool song concerning Shoeless Joe by Murray Head, also covered by the Who, called Say It Ain't So Joe. Both versions are good.
Joe was a much better person than Pete Rose ever thought of being.
With the Houston Astros 2017 World Series team not being banned from baseball forever for cheating, means that Major League Baseball should reinstate the 1919 White Sox, and the GREAT Shoeless Joe Jackson !!
Time for shoeless joe to be in the hall..its way past time actually
Nice film. I think baseball often gets caught up in its own self-importance, failing to forgive certain deeds of misconduct while giving a free pass to others. In a game where errors are a part of the daily box score, shouldn't errors of judgment be noted and accepted?
Denver Writer-- great comment. He should be in the HOF. And for that matter, as much of a jerk-off as Pete Rose remains, he belongs in the HOF too.
I agree BOTH should be in considering their performance came from their natural talent, unlike steroids or other PEDs that many recent players use(d).
" shouldn't errors of judgment be noted and accepted?" No. If you can present an argument that says Joe Jackson did not know about the fix, then I'd be willing to let him into the HOF. But Landis' brutal judgement against any player who even knew about the fix and didn't report it was just what was needed at that time.
@@ohger1 Pretty sure I watched this video and it said he DID try to report it and remove himself from it, unless I'm misunderstanding. You must walk on water, sir.
@@MrPSzebra Here's an excerpt from an article on the subject, link at the end: "Jackson said. “I didn’t want to play hard after I heard what was going on. But I had to play and I did play.”Near the end of his life, Jackson repeated this story in 1949 to Furman Bisher and in 1951 to John Carmichael, both writing for Sport magazine.24 But his claim went virtually unnoticed at the time, despite the serious implication that Jackson had tried to inform White Sox officials of the fix before the Series began and they had ignored him....
But did it ever happen? The reliability of Jackson’s claim is still heavily disputed. He had two chances to tell this story under oath - during his grand jury testimony in 1920 and his civil-trial deposition in 1923 - but never said a word about asking to be taken out of the lineup. He also didn’t mention it in a long feature profile that appeared in The Sporting News in 1942, written by his old friend Scoop Latimer of Greenville.26 The Furman Bisher interview from 1949 contains a number of details that are inaccurate, such as Jackson misremembering how many outfield assists he had during the World Series, or other anecdotes that cannot be corroborated. In the end, only these vague quotations from Jackson’s interviews remain - a tantalizing piece to the puzzle that may never be connected for sure." sabr.org/research/no-solid-front-silence-forgotten-black-sox-scandal-interviews
He should be in. The facts prove it. Simple.
Hey Joe, read any good books lately?
The more I read and hear of this man, the more convicted I am -- HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST -- ever. So why the f is he not in the HOF?
Come on -- we have plenty of "heroes" in baseball who "tarnished" themselves far more before its fans.
Sosa. Bonds. McGuire. Canseco. Pete Rose. I am quite sure you can add many to the list.
So.
How is the "roids" era any worse than what this acquitted man suffered?
I say -- the case cannot be made.
Let this man into the Hall of Fame. He more than earned it.
As posted above, Jackson gave a confession to the prosecution in the court case that he was part of the fix. While I agree that it is 100 years ago and everyone who witnessed those games is now dead, given that he admitted it, it would be very difficult to put him in the Hall.
Great video. The only thing that is not correct is that the White Sox we’re underpaid. The Sox had the highest payroll in baseball that year. Over 93k.
Not every player was paid fairly.
Shoeless Joe Jackson is my Great Great Uncle.
Would you like to challenge me on this fact? I dare you!
Wow, that is amazing, on what side was he your uncle, mom or dad?
@@christopherhall4182
Bullsht.
@@christopherhall4182
Dare me, chrissy.
Totally Agree. Joe Soundedca Humble Man !
He belongs in the HOF yes but so does Pete. My guess is that they will go in together long after Pete is gone sadly.
Yup .
NOT PETE ROSE --- He continuously and DELIBERATELY broke the CARDINAL RULE in baseball. N O B E T T I N G on baseball games --- P E R I O D ,
Tremendous player ,but, BREAK THE RULE--- PAY THE PRICE.
@@genehollon1472 oh stop. If people can repeatedly take drugs and be allowed to play, take roids and be allowed to play and get on the ballot......your argument is invalid. It’s a terrible double standard.
@@genehollon1472 I heard Ralph Kiner, who was then on the "oldtimers committee" of the Hall of Fame on MLB network one day say that the committee had evidence that, when he was managing the Reds, Rose bet against the Reds... Not good - and very tough to put him in the Hall if that is true.
His ban was lifetime. He paid that bill. Put him in the hall of fame.
Sounds like some revisionism here. Apparently a lot of his contemporaries didn't like Joe. When Ty Cobb stopped by his liquor store in the late 40s, Joe tried to ignore him. Finally after paying, Cobb said "Hey Joe, don't you know me?" Joe replied, "Sure I do, Ty, but I wasn't sure you wanted to know me. A lot of them don't". I didn't google this, so it may not be verbatim, but is essentially what was said. He assumed Ty would be pissed at him for either throwing the series or having been believed to have, and this was many years later, and apparently he had got enough negative feedback from other players that he figured the sentiment was near universal. You can play really well and still make a key misplay or strikeout and lose the series. It's been so long and his grandkids have likely all passed on I'm not sure there's a point in even considering him for the hall. Imagine if 100 years from now Barry Bonds still hasn't made the hall, I would say time had judged him not worthy.
I agree that there is no video evidence, but Jackson, along with Cicotte and Williams all gave confessions of being in on the fix. Very difficult to put him in the Hall of Fame with that out there.
Hopefully his ban is lifted at the Field of Dreams game this coming summer.
In many ways, he's even more famous, not being in the Hall of Fame, which is sadly ironic.
Yes it is! His numbers and defense, in the World Series: MUST BE ADMITTED!
Well yeah if he was found not guilty in a court he's eligible. Same as Barry Bonds.
Kennesaw Mountain Landis was a drunk and a rager (who probably hated life)...therefore Joe's banishment isn't fully legit. Please let Shoeless Joe into the Baseball Hall of Fame. He deserves it. Joe has millions of fans.
Not to mention Landis was a racist.
Millions of fans who never saw him play... not even on film.
@@Snatchystashy
So what?
Like if you're here because of Field of Dreams...
Eight Men Out
TheFarmerfitz Classic. You’re not wrong. I’m sat here on a Tuesday night in Bristol, England. Watching Field of Dreams. “If you build it he will come” 😂
Field of dreams, and the movie "Cobb", did Ty Cobb so wrong.
Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were friends, Cobb was an influencer of desegregating the leagues, had many black friends, numerous fans and admirers. He built a hospital in his name, and once when asked of Willie Mays, he responded, "Willie Mays is the only player I would pay to watch play".
Others said, "It is more exciting watching Ty Cobb draw a walk, than it is watching Ruth hit a homerun". Because the 1st player ever inducted into baseballs hall of fame wasn't Ruth, it was Ty Cobb.
His record of stealing home plate 54 times in his 23 year career, still hasn't been broken.
It was incredibly more exciting watching Cobb, than Ruth, because Cobb once stole 2nd base, 3rd base, and home plate in only (3) pitches. That which we will never get to see, and yet the stories of other ball player's exist, and so these stories live forever.
Eight men out
He couldn't spell CAT,but he could sure hit .356 lifetime
Im here because my name is joe jackson hahaha
JTJ_ 22 you're banned from baseball for life ;)
Andrew Pestotnik. well shit
JTJ_ 22 LOL
Joe Jackson hall of fame its been long enough
Joe should be in the Hall of Fame.
It has been a Century now and it was not his fault.
once they took the money the outcome of the series was affected no matter whether they actually tried to throw the series or not the very fact that they entertained this idea and planned it changed the future
and jackson was part of the scheme even if he did not try to throw the series they lost the series without needing jackson to lay down but jackson was still potentially available since he took the money and would be liable a player who sits on the bench and doesnt play still gets a ring if his team wins and can still affect the game from sitting on the bench
jackson by taking the money affected the outcome of the series regardless of how he played
in fact even if the white sox had won the series they might still be banned becuz win/lose the series was altered by the players accepting money even if they changed their minds and won the series the outcome is affected one can argue that they now had extra motivation to win to get themselves off the hook so they took more chances and played more aggressively
its not just whether they lost on purpose its also whether the outcome changed which it did
There's a picture where Jackson was indeed involved with baseball after suspension. At 3:12 there's Jackson and the Babe. Ruth was wearing the visiting Yankees uniform in the picture.
Jackson played for the Sox in 1920, Babe's first year with the Yankees
While I disagree with the "greatest" label, Jackson was great, and belongs in the HOF, as does Pete Rose. Rose's transgressions happened after his playing career. His actual career is the stuff of legend. I used to hate him until he played for my Phillies, at which time I was glad he was on MY team. As a player, he had a huge impact on the game. Like Cobb, his drive kept him healthy for 24 seasons-a tremendous record for guys who went all-out on the field. No one thought that anyone would surpass Cobb's 4,191 career hits. Rose did it, even though his lifetime BA was 60 points lower than Cobb's .368. The greatest hitter of all time was really Rogers Hornsby. The other top hitters (all time) were left handed hitters, which means they had the big advantage of facing mostly right handed pitching. For Hornsby to hit a career .358 with 475 HR puts Rogers in a class by himself.
Threw the ball so hard he broke his catchers arm. 👏😮👏
actually joe Jackson was first brought up bye connie mack's athletics
Babe ruth called shoeless Joe Jackson goat to play the game of baseball should be in the hall of fame
Actually, the 1919 White Sox had the highest payroll in the AL that year. And the Commissioners lifetime ban was about not only throwing games, but also participating in meetings where discussion of games being thrown took place. In Jacksons case, he took $5,000 for throwing games, whether he actively threw them or not. We have no real video from the 1919 WS so it is hard to say what he did or did not do.
Jackson was a superior ballplayer, no doubt, but, it was Babe Ruth who saved the game of baseball.......almost all by himself....after what the "Black Sox" did in 1919 . No one can compare with Ruth. Arguably the best left handed pitcher in the major leagues BEFORE he became a full time slugger....No one has done THAT !!! Pitchers of today are WIMPS compared to Ruth, who pitched the longest complete world series game of 14 straight innings !! He also pitched 29 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series.......a record that stood unchallenged until Whitey Ford broke it in 1961.
In Babe Ruth’s 1916 season as a pitcher, his record was 23 Wins and 170 Strikeouts, with a 1.75 ERA, 9 Shutouts and 23 Complete Games . It is a shame that Jackson was involved in the tarnishing of the game they all loved so much.
Can you imagine his "W.A.R" and all those other modern day analytics numbers???!!!--lol. And his salary now???
They should lift his ban from baseball (like it aays at the end of the vid), as that would really matter now
I've heard Williams talk about the greatest player and he doesn't say Jackson. He says Ruth. Good video
The hall should be what numbers were put up and what kind of player one was!!! Rose in, This guy in and guys who wre good and have close numbers like Mattingly,Garvey,Murphy all should be in!!! It only makes it that much better period!!!
Mattingly... Boy I remember when watching the Yankees was only worth doing for his at bats and fielding. Unfortunately, while he was the best ball player in MLB for 5 years, his back cut his career short and cost him the HOF and probably a WS ring.
@@ohger1 -- Koufax aonly had five good years, and he is deservedly in the HOF. It is a crime that Mattingly is not in.
Loved Garvey. His playoff numbers were great. Career .294.
Hopefully one day a Commissioner of MLB with guts will install Shoeless Joe Jackson into Cooperstown where he belongs!
Now the record books say Josh Gibson is the best, I do believe that Joe Jackson belongs in the Baseball Hall Of Fame.
Joe does belong HOF. But Ruth is the greatest player, BA. 342 HR.714 Rbi's 2213 and won 94 games pitching. ERA 2.28
Put Joe jackson in the hall, the man was a humble hard working southerner that had no involvement.
Christy Mathewson was watching the games with Ring Lardner. They sensed something was fishy. They agreed to keep track independently of who they thought was tanking. They both picked the same 7 players. That included Joe Jackson. I trust Mathewson's judgement.
Good story,but certainly don’t believe it
There was a question bc of one play. Let's not overdo it.
Say it isn't so joe--Say it isn't SO!!!!!
What does Landis bigotry have to do with whether or not Jackson was guilty?
Jackson took the money and confessed. To deny he was part of it is foolish.
You can say he deserves to be in the hall anyway, but he took it. Case closed.
And no, Jackson did not go to Comiskey, Buck Weaver did.
Jonah Platt
Framed by whom and how? Have you read his grand jury testimony? He readily admits it. And contemporaneous reporting by most writers agree he clearly was not playing to his full abilities in the first 3 games.
gedalia3 Good little doc. However I think the guy has Joe Jackson confused with Reggie Jackson.
Look, genitalia...
Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Even a stupid specious idiotic one such as your own.
@@gedalia3
I tried to be polite before, genitalia. Now the gloves are off. Shut up. Don't open your mouth again. You say shit like that again, you'll get punkslapped.
Despite weighing only 195 pounds, Jackson could bench press 475 pounds, an amazing total for that day. And as a golfer, he hit so many holes-in-one that he was banned from his community golf course. This was a man born to achieve in the world of sports.
I sure would like to know where you read this stuff because Shoeless Joe never got banned from a golf course because he hit too many hole in ones. That would never happen to anyone. I also highly doubt he could bench 475 lb. He was an incredible baseball player but I think you're embellishing here. If I'm wrong please tell me where to read these facts.
You should read what they said about Babe Ruth. Probably that he could bench more than Jackson.
@@Snatchystashy
He pulled those 'facts' OutOfHisAss.
@@TheBatugan77 lol.
the first black player Moses Fleetwood Wallker played for the Toledo Blue stockings in the one year that that team was pro.
Those who care about the game.
Yes, Sir!!!!
This case will take the Supreme Court to right a wrong an a very smart legal team.
Drop a JCole beat to this but I like the blue grass too don’t get me wrong
Say it ain't so Joe. He needed a agent long before agent's
This is what happens when your honest and decent person.
Jackson was a great baseball player, no doubt! But advertising him as the greatest of all time... no way!
Agreed
356 lt
If players we say are the greatest say he was the greatest he is the greatest. The video creator isn't advertising him as that the greats did
Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth & Ted Williams would disagree with your statement.
if joe jackson was in the hall of fame,would we be talking about him 100 years since the scandal?
Julie, if Jackson was in the Hall, he'd probably be the justification for letting the steroids guys in right now.
Yes we would. Probably not as much and obviously not for the same reason, but he was still one of the greatest hitters ever. We still talk about Cobb, Hornsby, Lajoie, et al.
Nice!!!
...and now we'll hear from the prosecution
It wasn’t supposedly he actually admitted he took the money. Whether he actually did do anything to throw a game matters not. He admitted taking the money it’s over. Now do I think he should be in the hall yes.
trying to understand the difference between little league baseball and Major League baseball is impossible for a poor kid in a state that does not have a MLB team.
i was born and raised at South Carolina, discovered MLB after moving to Texas before my senior year of high school.
kids who live at South Carolina now should be taught more about sports legends from there.
i was never told about Shoeless Joe during my childhood or any thing about the Major Leagues.
Joe jackson❤❤❤
You can't ignore his numbers or the opinions of those already in the HOF.
supposebly?
Jackson is clearly wearing shoes.
Say it ain't so,Joe.
The comment about Landis not letting Black players in the show is a compelling side of the argument.
well done....I wouldn't put him in the HOF but I enjoyed your documentary
The Best first basemen to play the game was also banned in 1919. Hal Chase.
Babe Ruth was asked who he thought was the best first baseman was at the inaugural Hall of Fame. Ruth answered, Hal Chase.
Shoeless Joe and Hal Chase should be in the Hall of Fame, neither were convicted or found guilty in the court of law.
Chase was never convicted but was a well known gambler and threw tons of games. Shoeless Joe was nothing like Hal Chase
Shoeless got a raw deal! Sure fire HOF otherwise.
Thought it was a ‘lifetime’ ban 🧐
the games he was supposed to win he hit over 500..the games he was supposed to lose he hit 250 and hit a homerun only when down 5-0 and a rbi double when down 10-1 tell the whole truth...
You are assuming that Jackson could gets hits any time he wanted. As for the last game, since the Reds had a big lead before he ever even batted, what was he supposed to do? He did his best to get the Sox back into the game; is it his fault that Sox pitching did so poorly that day?
Jackson's home run came in the final game with the Sox already down 5-0 in a game the Sox lost 10-5. Most of his hits came when they didn't effect the outcome. Jackson did take the money, and he felt guilty about it.
The injustice is that the fix was the worst kept secret in baseball. When the NY mob began betting heavily on Cincinnati, even thought the White Sox were heavy favorites, most everyone in the game put 2 and 2 together, but did nothing about it.
BTW, Comiskey actually paid his team pretty well. He paid the highest salaries in the game, which in those days wasn't saying much. Most players had to get winter jobs to feed the family.
So Jackson could hit homers any time he wanted? He was good , but he wan't that good!
@@gregb6469 Did I say Jackson could hit homers any time he wanted? No.
Are you illiterate? Apparently.
@@MFPhoto1 -- You implied as much by criticizing him for waiting until the Sox were down by five runs before hitting his homer (ignoring the fact that the Reds were up by several runs before Jackson ever got to the plate).
If your criticism is that he waited until the last game to homer, then what about evry other player on both teams, none of whom hit a homer in ANY game? Were they all throwing the series?
@@gregb6469 It was the dead ball era. Home runs were rare. And you are reading things that I did not say.
Did Joe at least wear socks while he went shoeless ? Asking for a friend.
From what I've read, the man most responsible for the ban on black players was Hall of Famer Cap Anson.
Ty & Babe Hitting role model Damas y Caballeros
Supposably isn't a word.
Neither is Fantabulous! or Gianormous!; but it sounds good 👍
say it ain't so Joe
Joe Belongs in, Pete Does NOT!
Good job
Kenesaw Mountain Landis was a corrupt ruthless man with no scruples.
TY C0BB. all-time greatest!