It Took Me A Long Time To Figure This Out (too much distortion)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 931

  • @sneifert1968
    @sneifert1968 2 ปีที่แล้ว +270

    Angus Young’s tone is a perfect example of lower gain sounding huge.

    • @benchilds2374
      @benchilds2374 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      Malcolm even moreso.

    • @subcontrail
      @subcontrail 2 ปีที่แล้ว +43

      Ironically, most modelling amps have an AC/DC sound that is way too high in gain.

    • @sagarchawla8145
      @sagarchawla8145 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ah yes

    • @louiscyfer6944
      @louiscyfer6944 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      it would be malcolm.

    • @Soldano999
      @Soldano999 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Pete Townshed / The who as well.

  • @paulmdevenney
    @paulmdevenney 2 ปีที่แล้ว +115

    Rhett - I love this kind of "context sensitive" demonstration of fixing a tone for the mix. I would love to see more of this kind of stuff.

    • @michealodwyer7306
      @michealodwyer7306 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd love to see a similar video on reverb. Too much of it might sound great on its own, but like distortion it can remove definition and add mud to the tone in the context of a full mix.

  • @jamesvisceglia3971
    @jamesvisceglia3971 2 ปีที่แล้ว +264

    A great example of this is the first zeppelin record. It really shows how powerful your sound could be with less. In many moments on the record, the distortion is nowhere near what we as players hear and thus try to emulate.

    • @ESP77769
      @ESP77769 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Amen, James!! And Jimmy Page running a Tele into a Pignose amp that's about to blow up!! It wasn't always Les Paul's and Marshall's, etc.

    • @martinaddison4880
      @martinaddison4880 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ESP77769 Motherless Children's slide gtr part was thru a Pignose.

    • @jeffwheeler3504
      @jeffwheeler3504 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      So, so true. Xlnt point we should all internalize

    • @gojoe36
      @gojoe36 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Also Try Molly Hatchet Beatin the Odds....brings out what real DISTORTION is, an AMP on the verge of breaking up

    • @dougiemonday
      @dougiemonday 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah that record is a immovable top ten’r

  • @christopherberry8519
    @christopherberry8519 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    About 20 years ago, i was using a small home recording 4 track and just split my humbucker and ran it with the mid pickup and turned the bass down - the sound went from small distorted and tight to huge. This distorted sound is choking the amp badly - the entire attack vanishes. You can get non choked heavy sounds and they can sound quite nice but I prefer them in combination with a overdrive partner to provide some dynamics and space. Reverb is the other killer - taking up all breathing space.

  • @danielsaturnino5715
    @danielsaturnino5715 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    For me, on your original play clip you have too much low frequencies going into the distortion which make it a bit of a mess. It would sound fine with the same distortion set on the amp and less bass on the settings. Actually when you cut the bass frequencies the saturation on the preamp stage also drops a bit.

    • @Eliphas_Elric
      @Eliphas_Elric 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Or just slap a Tube screamer in front of it with the drive on zero, volume on 10, and tone set to 2 oclock, boom fits right in the mix and sounds great.

    • @coreybuystedt
      @coreybuystedt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I agree

  • @Texasbluesalley
    @Texasbluesalley 2 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    This is a great video Rhett. I wonder how much of our tendency to add higher levels of gain has to do with how many of us record today. With more and more players playing at home at low volumes, it's really easy to lose sight of the fact that many of the records we love (especially live albums) were recorded at much higher volumes where the guitar tone got an assist from the amount of air being moved and helping the guitar sustain more. So when our tone lacks the same "energy" our first instinct is to add more gain or distortion. It does give us more sustain, but we lose clarity.

    • @BassTheworldcom
      @BassTheworldcom 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
      Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎸🎁

    • @CR3W1SH03S
      @CR3W1SH03S 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Some of the biggest rock tracks were actually played on very small amps. Layla was played on a Fender Champ. Little amps can sound big and allow you to use much better but sometimes more fragile mics. Things like ribbon mics would never take the punishment of a Marshall stack.

    • @kennethc2466
      @kennethc2466 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's not about gain, its about frequency. Hence, a fuzz vs a 5150II. The fuzz is what the video's author says is not good, where a 5150II, crunch switch in, is what he says it 'clean', and 'good'. Seems quite silly, and absolute...to sell a product.
      Shame context is ignored for, 'less pre-amp be more gooder, regardless of the guitar/song/band/venue/speakers/etc...'
      Please, tell Ted Nugent his 5150 is, 'too much distortion'.

    • @johnb4024
      @johnb4024 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jim Lill made a great video called "the one thing every influential guitar tone has in common". In that video he took samples of his guitar directly in front of a cranked Marshall half stack and samples of his guitar not in the presence of loud volumes. When he played the sound files back of the 2 recorded guitars you could not hear any difference between the two guitar parts. Psychologically it might make you play different, but you could not hear the difference on the recorded guitar part

  • @ruminantmelanoid5444
    @ruminantmelanoid5444 2 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    Thanks to you, I started using "edge of breakup" in my playing. A little really does go a long way.

    • @max.r.guitar
      @max.r.guitar 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Did too, the result is immediate : when playing gigs I started getting compliments from other guitarists (better than me) on my tone, and that's quite a feeling

    • @danabiondo9243
      @danabiondo9243 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Less is Really More.

    • @DerEchteBold
      @DerEchteBold 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@danabiondo9243
      But here it doesn't sound good at all!

    • @JonDanMart
      @JonDanMart 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DerEchteBold Edge of breakup is a starting point foundation! Add your choice of effects to build the sound. Ex. Guitar-flanger-compressor-clean boost-amp-fx loop-chorus-delay-reverb. Could always add, a couple of more bells & whistles. There are no set rules.

    • @DerEchteBold
      @DerEchteBold 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JonDanMart
      Hmm... but if you see it like that, instead of improving something that lacks in sound you would usually want to start with something that sounds good already, right!?
      Well, to me this doesn't at all.

  • @lippi2171
    @lippi2171 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Classic rock and blues rock musicians like Hendrix, Clapton, Page used less distortion (generally) to give their instruments more clarity. It also pronounced the unique character of their guitars. They usually just cranked the volume on the amp or put a simple fuzz in front of it.
    And then bands like Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins etc. used a boatload of multi tracks of 11'd shrill distortion to give the song a texture of heaviness instead of a pronounced guitar sound.
    It all depends on the desired effect and aesthetics because both can be heavy. But it's a great and important advice nonetheless because it's very very true that heaviness doesn't come from distortion alone!

  • @davemarriott9332
    @davemarriott9332 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent video Rhett.....Well explained. Took me years to figure this out. I remember mastering at the Record Plant and wondering why my guitar was getting buried in the mix. It was to late to go back to Studio D to track. EQ was my only friend at that point and every session I did past that our producer (Bill Cutler) reminded me to use my gain sparingly to stand out in the blanket of the other stringed insturments. These small classes your putting out are great and look forward to the next.
    Cheers Dave

  • @emmanueldubois5882
    @emmanueldubois5882 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    One of the best and clearest lead on the path of understanding distortion. Hats off.

  • @bailey5924
    @bailey5924 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I learned this from Ola Englund. When trying to dial in a good rhythm metal tone, try to use as little gain as possible to get your sound, then cut it back just a little for recording. It allows for more dynamics and responds to you digging into the strings for heavy chugs!

  • @kennethsease6761
    @kennethsease6761 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    As an audio engineer I learned so much about exactly what you were talking about rhett. A lot of it is just phase cancellation and EQ and frequencies and it's all compression and left right up down forward backwards that's what's so cool about engineering a record is you can place things because of all those things and that certainly has a huge impact on what is in front of the mix what is behind the mix etc .......thank you rhett for your channel, it's very informative I always love watching you because you tackle things in a way that keeps it very interesting.

  • @216trixie
    @216trixie 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    This is critical to good sound in a band live. Bedroom sound is one thing. I gig regularly in a few bands. Over the years I have constantly dialed back the gain more and more. It's amazing how little I play with now and get the best tone ever. And I don't get lost in the mix!

  • @carloscabrales8159
    @carloscabrales8159 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh wow - another fantastic video Rhett. I refer to this phenomenon as “buzz” or “whomp” where the distortion sounds great to your naked ear, ‘crushing from the amp’ but no amount of mic placement, compression or engineering trickery can make is pop out in a recording. All you wind up hearing is a swishing buzz of distortion… losing all note, chord and guitar definition. Worse, this also happens when you play live. Sure you think that your are ripping power chords and solos, meanwhile your guitar is so saturated in the live mix no one hears what you are actually playing. It took me a long a while to learn this but if you want to cut through less distortion is the way to go. Live, I use a signal booster instead of more distortion. I spend time in sound check coming up with a solid distortion tone, I make sure it’s simple and clean to the ear. Than when I need to cut through the mix I pop that signal booster on and rip right through the live band mix. It’s a simple trick but more signal and less distortion always works for me. Also, the louder I’m playing, the less distortion I use. I back off, letting the amp do it’s thing and only pushing it when I need to.

  • @cancelbubble6535
    @cancelbubble6535 2 ปีที่แล้ว +138

    It's all about the vibe you're going far and of course personal taste. I actually preferred the heavy version over the cleaned up version, but at the same time, to me, it isn't like one is vastly better than the other.

    • @kal-el4781
      @kal-el4781 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I preferred the heavier riff too. It sounded a lot more pleasing to my ears compared to the cleaned up version.

    • @z_855turboR
      @z_855turboR 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@kal-el4781I would choose somewhere in the half way of the two:)

    • @Mojoman57
      @Mojoman57 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Love the comments. This is why music is awesome. I'm digging Gary Clark Jr. one night, and TOOL the next.

    • @owenandrew8108
      @owenandrew8108 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      a balance of higher and lower gain is a good option. i feel like the higher gain prs for the chunk with the lower gain novo to preserve the sparkle and definition would be a good balance.

    • @gamezombie1013
      @gamezombie1013 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      same

  • @MetalJamesK
    @MetalJamesK 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    been watching your channel for years but this.. this is it. great job Rhett

  • @TheDilligan
    @TheDilligan 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is something I love about the Klon. It's "enough" distortion. But it's not capable of giving you too much. Sometimes, practicing alone in my room, it is unsatisfying. But in any actual context, it's plenty.

  • @projectz975
    @projectz975 ปีที่แล้ว

    one thing i love doing is double-tracking a guitar tone with too much gain, hard panning the tracks, and then layering on top with a lightly crunched telecaster playing the same riff straight down the middle. the over-overdriven sound tones are intended to get buried, usually i mid-scoop them pretty heavily because their purpose is mainly just to act as a low rumble and a high fizz over the bright clear main guitar sound. its great for when i want to give the impression of a sludgy grungy blown out sound, but still maintain a clear articulation

  • @Dave-hp4vh
    @Dave-hp4vh 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great tip for getting a crisp and thick heavily distorted tone within a mix: double the part with a clean acoustic with heavy strings and keep it panned in sync with the heavy guitar so they blend well, cutting a bit off the low end EQ on the acoustic. The percussive sound of the acoustic strings plus the crisp upper harmonics makes the distorted guitar sound absolutely massive and allows the notes in the riff to stand out

    • @joxyjoxyjoxy1
      @joxyjoxyjoxy1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Whoa. That's an awesome idea. I use a lot of chunk when i record. My method has always been to put a tiny bit of chorus or phaser on. Can't wait to give that a shot.

  • @fasteddievh2072
    @fasteddievh2072 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Excellent video. Extremely helpful. I feel like didn’t realize that “less is more” until I started gigging . You will suddenly figure out that what worked well in your bedroom, doesn’t translate well in a live band mix. Plus, I always remember that Dave Friedman once said “the greats don’t actually use a lot of distortion”.

  • @crimfan
    @crimfan 2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    That riff is ready to sell some serious trucks!

    • @ApolloSuns
      @ApolloSuns 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Haha coming to a Ford commercial near you

    • @TheDankCat127
      @TheDankCat127 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      (Deep voice) “Are you a middle class suburbanite looking to compensate for the fact that you’ve never worked a blue collar job in your life? Are you trapped in a sexless marriage while suffering from ED? Reclaim your manhood with the all new 2023 gas guzzler…” *guitar riff*

  • @tomz1989
    @tomz1989 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    To me that's why I use a lot the volume knob to control not only the volume but the gain in first place. I found more pleasant sounds with volume rolled at 2/3 .
    The band mix is always a sum of everybody .....so if you try to cover too much spectrums (bassy/trebly/midrangy) you gonna be 'eaten' whole by other instruments that run on their peculiar eq segment.
    Find your spot and don't overdo it.
    I found really instructive the video posted on living gear demos about Josh Homme tone chasing . Low gain high volume. That's how you get so "surgical " in a band mix (of course EQing the right bands)

  • @hybridnoisebloom
    @hybridnoisebloom 2 ปีที่แล้ว +90

    Jimmy Page was a master of the interplay of instruments in rock music. When you hear just the guitar on an epic track such as Immigrant Song, it doesn't sound all that impressive on its own, but when paired with Jones' bass and Bonham's drums underneath it, it sounds freaking MASSIVE. Page really understood how the bass and drums and guitar all served the riffs and the songs.

    • @marions.120
      @marions.120 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Yes, that’s correct. People don’t understand when I tell them Page plays cleaner than they think.

    • @jeffwheeler3504
      @jeffwheeler3504 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@marions.120 Great point. I was always amazed how clean Page played live back in the 70’s versus what my ear was hearing on the record

    • @marions.120
      @marions.120 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jeffwheeler3504 -Crazy isn’t it?

    • @danabiondo9243
      @danabiondo9243 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      A Musical Genius !

    • @justinpalmer6098
      @justinpalmer6098 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jeffwheeler3504 A lot of times what you hear on the record is studio distortion from having gone through the transformer(s) at the mixing desk. There's an interview somewhere with Angus (or one of them) talking about how much more guitar distortion is on the final recording than what they're actually using.

  • @theariesexperiment4642
    @theariesexperiment4642 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I didn't know how to set my amp until I played in the studio. Boy was that ever an Ah-Ha moment. Your guitar will sound SOOOO much better if you just back that gain down. You are a little more naked in terms of playing cleanly. But,....you get so much more of a nuanced and articulate tone. If there's to much gain/distortion,....it will overload your guitars frequency and personality. Even a subtle reduction in gain will surprise you. In the studio,....the way my tone was at the time,....it sounded like pure chaos and unusable. Great video Rhett.

  • @taylormoon3561
    @taylormoon3561 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great video, this is one of the most important lessons I’ve learned about dialing in my sound. Even metal players like Matt Pike from Sleep talk about how they really just use a medium overdrive sound.

  • @WyattStensrud
    @WyattStensrud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love seeing TH-camrs I love shouting out other TH-camrs I love!!! Lots of love to you and Andrew!

  • @adambrown8867
    @adambrown8867 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    If you mix layer distortion back to front, heavy distortion sans added compression goes in the back, & the cleanest goes in front with added light compression/peak limiting as needed. Combined the sound will be huge while retaining dynamics.

    • @MinoStraussen
      @MinoStraussen 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This I am writing in my book of stuff to try out!

    • @jorgemartinez42069
      @jorgemartinez42069 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What do you mean by "back to front" here? Volume levels? Or placing them in a "space" by making the guitar in the "back" have more reverb than the on in the front?

    • @adambrown8867
      @adambrown8867 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@jorgemartinez42069 Could be accomplished more than one way. The most simple is just volume mixing, but you can get more depth if record with depth to begin with. You get depth by microphone placement in the the space & microphone selection. You can also flip it around. Oh, you need a really good space/room. I digress. Put the distortion in front & the clean in back. To me reverb is like compression. Really don't want it all over the place. But ymmv. Whatever works.

    • @jerrystephenson1172
      @jerrystephenson1172 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jorgemartinez42069 I understand him to mean front as earlier in the signal chain & back as later. The guitar in ft. amp in back as the signal flows.I could be wrong bc. it threw me at first.

    • @allstopblue5717
      @allstopblue5717 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I understood the original comment perfectly (in my mind). All the responses got weirder and more complicated. Lol I’ll stick to what I “thought” I understood. Haha

  • @TheTruth70777
    @TheTruth70777 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    its nice to have a better understanding of it. Thanks

  • @philipatoz
    @philipatoz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Couple of takeaways: Doesn't matter so much how or what you used to get the sound you're after - but once you have a sound you like, know how you got it / and how to replicate it: Always listen to your guitars in the band mix - what sounds great alone may have frequency clash or clarity issues; Trust your ears!

    • @joxyjoxyjoxy1
      @joxyjoxyjoxy1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes! Most guitarists always want their inst. to sound like a live setup when they record instead of finding its place in the mix. I almost always drop out the low end unless the guitar is playing on its own.

  • @rickbjurstrom467
    @rickbjurstrom467 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Already really liked your videos. But I gotta say your production value has just continued to improve to a seriously top shelf level. Really appreciate all your hard work.

  • @patriotpizzaman
    @patriotpizzaman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    I'm curious what that riff would have sounded like with one guitar running the heavy gain and the other one with the cleaner setting. I kind of liked the sound of the chords better on the heavy takes and the single-note riffs slightly more on the cleaner setting. Maybe a combination of the two would be the best of both worlds?

    • @GooberNumber9
      @GooberNumber9 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I've done this before and it definitely works. Another way to get an articulate and also thick guitar sound is to take a DI track along with a high gain track and then mix the two together, with or without some kind of re-amping or amp emulation on the DI track. The DI track is maximum clean, dynamic range, and articulation. The gain track is kind of the opposite. Combined with good EQ decisions made on the gain track and maybe some compression on the DI track, along with good mixing for the rest of the sounds, this really can be a best-of-both-worlds sound, as long as the music calls for it. I have long preferred to both double track and double amp guitars, giving me four total guitar tracks (guitar 1 amp 1, guitar 1 amp 2, guitar 2 amp 1, guitar 2 amp 2). You can always mute one of the amp sounds if it's really wrong, but I find mixing two different sounds for each part gives me a lot of ways to fix or enhance the guitar tracks. Plus if you want that wide stereo sound of double tracked guitars panned left and right, having the separate amp sounds for each part let you be even wider!

    • @stevengarrity2989
      @stevengarrity2989 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I've found this (overlaying a cleaner sound over a thicker/heavier sound) works well. It doesn't even sound like two layers, just adds clarity to the fuzzier layer.

  • @calebriley7466
    @calebriley7466 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Most of my overdrives are volume all the way up and gain barely on and it just stacks a little bit of color every time I hit on the next pedal and it’s awesome

  • @imacmadman22
    @imacmadman22 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I actually liked BOTH guitar tones and agree on both fronts because I've always thought the guitar's tone should fit the song. Imagine 'War Pigs' without Tony Iommi's sludgy, thick tone or Santana's 'Black Magic Woman" without the singing sustain. Both of those legendary examples would likely not be the the classic sounds many of us know and love. I believe what matters more is what you're trying to achieve within the overall sound of the song. I do agree that less gain can make a guitar part stand out, but I also think it's worth looking at what you're trying to achieve with the song itself. Many legendary guitarists achieved their heaviness through production rather than gain and there are countless examples of that anywhere you care to listen. Nice CE too, Rhett!

  • @larstraue6393
    @larstraue6393 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    And once again - Less is More! Thanks a lot for this very helpful demonstration! What a huge difference!

  • @thechannelforeverything2170
    @thechannelforeverything2170 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Being a rock metal player. I've been discovering over time that, the heavy tones are indeed the ones that are much more clean than you think. I use a Mesa Mark III for all my Thrashy stuff, and I always leave the gain on 4 and no more.

  • @caleshtcincredibles
    @caleshtcincredibles 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have learned this by listening to videos of rehearsals or live gigs, I found by backing off the gain my tone cuts though the mix like a hot knife through butter.

  • @TheDankCat127
    @TheDankCat127 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    “My best RAM trucks commercial riff”
    You mean The Black Keys?

  • @G-NutZ
    @G-NutZ ปีที่แล้ว

    Took me years to get this right. Started playing guitar and was into thrash metal and cranked up my gain as I learned to play the guitar. Fast forward some years and my skills improves but I always was chasing a tone I could never get, so I added more gain lol. Later I started lowering the gain to get dynamics and finally found “the tone” I had been searching for for years. Lower your gain!

  • @Burnt_Gerbil
    @Burnt_Gerbil 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    I play rock and metal so I’m fine with “too much” distortion. The trick is to turn down bass and turn up the mids. 🤘😄

    • @CRAZYCANUCKTV
      @CRAZYCANUCKTV 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      That is very true

    • @sunrise2982
      @sunrise2982 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      When play with a band, even in metal the principle is valid. Having high distortion you easily lose definition. Also what sounds good alone or in your bedroom, is not the same in a full band or recording situation. Less bass, more mids and barely treble combined with not very high distortion always kicks!!! I have tried in rehearsal room with the band at "playing" volume.
      A lot of reviews of distortion (in fact great) pedals/modelers on youtube, shows almost full distortion setup, but in real life that specific pedal doesn't sound as good as they pretend and you can get the best going to max 1/2 o'clock with the distortion. This video it's a good starting point: the sound in the room, alone, versus in a full mix/recording!!!

    • @Burnt_Gerbil
      @Burnt_Gerbil 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@sunrise2982 - Cool story, bro.

  • @Newnodrogbob
    @Newnodrogbob 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    There’s a lot of interplay between sounds and distortion characteristics. One of the things you have to understand is that “clipping “ means part of the signal is removed. Exactly what part varies, but almost always you lose a big chunk of the attack transience, because this is the loudest part of any note played on a vibrating string.
    This leads to desired effects like giving the guitar a “singing” quality-better sustain without murderous attacks. It also causes undesirable effects, like muddy sound, particularly on chords, because lots of strings produce more signal than one string, which increases clipping making the effect more dramatic.
    The Fletcher-Munson curve exacerbates this too, since more gain = more volume in the room but not necessarily on the recording.
    Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

  • @Wanderer_XJ
    @Wanderer_XJ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I was once told: The more notes/strings you are playing at once, the less gain you need to use.

    • @RetroPlus
      @RetroPlus 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely true

  • @BuddieOLLi
    @BuddieOLLi 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    ☺️ my Boogie Quad Preamp has so much compression in the second lead chanel -first times it scares at the moment of switching because the noise comes up soo loud - you will be afraid to touch the strings because you think "...oh, much to loud now....." 😉 and then the guitar tone is only half as loud as the noise when the Distortion comes up at "2" by Gain. I never could use this sound, it was not bad, but "to much tube" at all! . Less gain is often better for productions.

  • @SleepingLionsProductions
    @SleepingLionsProductions 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    It really all depends on your style of music and preference. I personally would've gone with the heavier riff cuz I just love that heavy saturated tone but the clean riff is great if you love the dynamic and twangy sound.

    • @davesaenz3732
      @davesaenz3732 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I get annoyed with that twangy sound. Lol. Overused and too soft.

  • @PeterUrbanPhoto
    @PeterUrbanPhoto 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Finally someone that explains the relationship of base tone/note and harmonics properly, thank you.

  • @lucistired
    @lucistired 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I think the threshold should be wherever you can hear every note in the chord. This threshold shifts depending on the chords you play; I use 7th chords a lot so I tend to play cleaner (a fender twin at 6-8 is my happy place) but as Rhett pointed out more gain sounds awesome with power chords. So basically use however much gain you think sounds good, but remember that you already know what the chords are; the audience doesn't. Make sure they can hear them

    • @Fernando-ry5qt
      @Fernando-ry5qt 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Unless you want a big wall of something, I dub guitars with a LOT of fuzz and use them as "beds" for the "heavy" guitars (not that distorted at all) and it does wonders filling those small gaps below the band, kind of like using synths or organs for the same purpose

    • @1badsteed
      @1badsteed 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well said!

  • @Kaisermb1
    @Kaisermb1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Spot on. As a much younger man I remember someone telling me to really listen to a lot of the guitar sounds I love and think about how little drive or distortion they actually have. After you realize that, it just becomes an eq question.

  • @dstagl
    @dstagl 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is great, Rhett. Now, can you please do one on how reverb on guitar works in the context of a band?

  • @hashtagzema
    @hashtagzema 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was very helpful for me. Thanks. More videos about how to track in this mindset would be fantastic.

    • @BassTheworldcom
      @BassTheworldcom 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
      Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎸🎁

  • @KesslerMickschGeorgeII
    @KesslerMickschGeorgeII 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    SRV, AC/DC, and even Sleep are great examples of how volume is power. Power amp gain and speaker breakup are essential elements of ‘heavy’

  • @formulajoe2
    @formulajoe2 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video! The entire time I was thinking about Siamese Dream. Billy Corgan has mentioned how when he was telling/showing Butch Vig how he wanted the guitars to sound on the record, Butch was like “No way” that’s too hard to record and get it to sound good. But that’s the sound they wanted (huge fuzz through Marshall amps TIMES TWO). Dave Onarato was apparently around the studio when that record was being recorded in Atlanta and he and Rick Beato keep threatening to do a video about it and I’m still anxiously awaiting!

  • @SimonRefaloGuitaristOfficial
    @SimonRefaloGuitaristOfficial 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Malcolm Young had the best rhythm sound and was mostly a clean sound, but then Angus would have a more crunchy sound which complemented his brothers sound- which made the ultimate ACDC sound!!!

    • @darthgibsonlp6631
      @darthgibsonlp6631 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yep. Malcolm's sound was partly through playing heavier gauge strings and using a harder picking technique - he wasn't afraid to dig those chords.

    • @joxyjoxyjoxy1
      @joxyjoxyjoxy1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Love Malcom's sound. Spot on with how those 2 complement each other.

  • @Emily_M81
    @Emily_M81 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    So much yes. I once had to explain to someone "bedroom sound" vs "recording sound" :D I remember even when I was a kid and went to record a friend's band with an old Tascam thing, I turned down the guitarist's treble and everyone was all yelling at me XD BUT... yeah. They loved how it turned out...
    Thanks for sharing!

  • @thomkopal1740
    @thomkopal1740 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    "Gain"
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    ~ Inigo Montoya

  • @theblockyrocker9060
    @theblockyrocker9060 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm a blues player that play hardcore/metalcore music. For several years, I've been running my Dual Rectifier with no boost, Fishman fluence pups, and amp gain at 50% and it works out so well. Turn the volume pot down on my guitar and I have a light crunch clean tone. My tone knob turned slightly down throughout, until I dime both during a heavier part like a chorus, and I love my tone. It's so easy to record, and fits well in the mix, and actually helps my drummer hear me easier. Playing with other guitarists, even those that use mesa, I clearly here a difference in my tone versus theirs.

  • @Slayer821
    @Slayer821 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I like the Heavy version better and I still think that needed more distortion.

    • @kamasotomonte5043
      @kamasotomonte5043 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I want to smash this video with an ole 90s Peavy.... 🤣

    • @jorgemartinez42069
      @jorgemartinez42069 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Judging by your handle, I'd guess your taste in music is probably a bit different than Rhett's and thus would lean more towards the distortion side with metal and then rely on other techniques with EQ and such to make space for the wall of sound that hyper distorted guitars produce.

    • @Slayer821
      @Slayer821 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@jorgemartinez42069 Correct.

  • @stonehouseguitars3869
    @stonehouseguitars3869 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The key component is volume. Volume compresses sound. So the louder you play the less dirty gain you need. The solution is to use overdrive pedals that boost output mostly. Just keep stacking them and use that in combination with the clean gain on the amp until it's right.

  • @GearZombie
    @GearZombie 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This isn't IMO so much a too much distortion thing but a amp setting, mix thing and style of music thing. The isolated single track is muddy and the amp clearly isn't one that excels at high gain levels. If this was a distortion thing nobody would record with 5150's, Engls recto's and such. This is a good example for low mid gain. He does mention at the end that that sound needs to fit the part you're playing. But one could take a 5150 and play that same part and make it clear and big with loads of gain.

  • @Jalliams
    @Jalliams 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Often discussed, rarely demonstrated so well. Thanks, Rhett! Learning to turn the gain down when appropriate was an absolutely game changer! That Pedal Show is other channel that also demonstrate this idea.
    Also, love that CE22.
    Cheers!

  • @elphidium
    @elphidium 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    interestingly, but I liked the fuzzy sound better. Good video btw

  • @NatePieper
    @NatePieper 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is how I dial in my amps and pedals most of the time. I often use overdrives more like boosts to maintain enough articulation on and between notes or chords. Then if I need it, I have one overdrive with enough gain on tap via dip switches to really push it.

  • @WilliamDeShazer
    @WilliamDeShazer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    You are right and I get what you're saying, but I prefer the heavier sound.

    • @lancere00
      @lancere00 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Yeah it sounded way better. It had more guts and sounded more exciting to my ears. Definition is great but it isn't everything- sometimes you want it, but it depends on the effect you're going for. 1st clip rocked harder

    • @Dann1303
      @Dann1303 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Also makes a massive difference if the backing track matches guitars that are heavier.
      Just like saying your guitar doesn’t have enough gain and putting a clean channel in front of death metal rhythm.

    • @TheDilligan
      @TheDilligan 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah I think the other thing to consider is that so many bands, especially in punk and grunge, went into the studio and used maximum distortion because they were coming from a place of less experience in a generation that had access to higher distortion. The result may be dirty and messy, but that means it gives listeners a different impression - not a better or worse impression. And nowadays it has been normalized enough that it is a completely acceptable option.
      The value in knowing the difference is being able to decide whether the sound you are looking for requires more or less gain.

    • @Zafersernikli
      @Zafersernikli 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      This took me to my high school times where I turn all the knobs of my MT2 up all the way.

  • @dcaudio1
    @dcaudio1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was awesome....actually i loved the fuller sound of the heavier distortion but after hearing it in context of the song the less distortion sound really cut through better and overall sounded better. Thanks Rhett....

  • @jackmaddox4960
    @jackmaddox4960 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I noticed this phenomenon, or whatever you want to call it, years ago on Led Zeppelin recordings; As a kid listening to Zeppelin I always 'heard' the guitar parts as heavily over-driven; but as I got more experienced, and developed a more critical ear, and then later was able to hear the tracks soloed, I was surprised by how often the distortion level was a lot less than I'd imagined... And as in Rhett's example, often it was the many layers of guitar tracks that created that huge gritty sound. Jimmy Page demonstrated tremendous sophistication in guitar tone/recording, especially when you consider how long ago it was, and how limited their tools were then, compared to now...

  • @harolddeschenes4640
    @harolddeschenes4640 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks Rhett for this video. I learned a lot in 15 minutes. I'm a metal guy so the more gain the better but I totally get what you're trying to show us here. I'll go to bed more informed tonight so thank you :)

  • @kennethc2466
    @kennethc2466 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    The laughter from metal players is thunderous.

    • @alluringskull2133
      @alluringskull2133 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      As a metal player the max gain i have ever used is 7

    • @kennethc2466
      @kennethc2466 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@alluringskull2133 On all amps, ever?

  • @CyberneticArgumentCreator
    @CyberneticArgumentCreator 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There's an aesthetic for the blown-out dimed sound you dialed in first, but typically very middy guitar is used so often because it just works better, like you showed. I remember tracking a funny song for a writing competition and instead of using my huge pedalboard and gain pedals, I just dialed my little VC15 amp to be super middy and high gain. By itself it wasn't my favorite "bedroom tone", but in the mix it totally rips and left a good amount of space for the vocals.
    I realized why 15 years ago, when I looked up how to emulate Adam Jones' massive guitar sound, it was something like bass 3, mids 8, treble 5. "Wait this sounds thinner than how I set my amps up..." I thought back then when playing it alone. I'm not the whole band! And some amount of transients are good!

    • @BassTheworldcom
      @BassTheworldcom 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the feedback,
      Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎊👆👆🎉

  • @chewybang
    @chewybang 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I guess it really depends on what you're going for. I have found your advice to be true, but sometimes more is more (like Malmsteen would say)
    Listen to Fu Manchu's "King of the Road" for a master class in fuzz and heavy distortion. Just killer stuff.

  • @cflowers69
    @cflowers69 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    So glad that you covered this. Have jammed with so many who just pretty much dime the gain. Nothing but mush.

  • @r33th
    @r33th 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Dude that amp is producing fuzz without a pedal. PRS nailed it with that thing

  • @shredgd5
    @shredgd5 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent video. I’d add a little extra information, which is key in this particular case with that kind of amp: by dialing back the gain, you’re reducing the amount of bass frequencies getting distorted more so than the mid and treble frequencies. By doing so, you’re therefore getting a less fuzzy type of overdrive (the fuzz face peculiarity is the full amount of bass frequencies getting clipped) and a more precise overdrive tone.

    • @BassTheworldcom
      @BassTheworldcom 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
      Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎸🎁

  • @famouswww
    @famouswww 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    In my opinion, heavier settings sounded better for this specific track but I get the point. Sometimes, lower gain tones sound a lot bigger because you're left with more space in the mix. Btw, you also can't go wrong with a PRS whatever tone u choose :) Great video!

    • @caca_spaniel_1239
      @caca_spaniel_1239 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah it sounded like a fuzz which was pretty cool

  • @jimmygrant3151
    @jimmygrant3151 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was really good Rhett. This is the exact reason why I subscribe to your channel. having said that, there is so much truth to this. I always find myself backing off the distortion when I record, but having it full on when I jam alone.

  • @goddamelectric8468
    @goddamelectric8468 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I mean yes and no. The problem isn’t necessarily the gain it’s the eq and the gain combined. You can leave that same gain structure and eq differently to get a much better sound. This only really matters when you play both clean and distorted and switch between. Kinda tells me you don’t get high gain sounds. If you’re a hard rock player and don’t play clean this advice is going to give you a headache. Jerry Cantrell isn’t turning down the gain, trust me.

  • @thefunkgodeloheem2278
    @thefunkgodeloheem2278 ปีที่แล้ว

    Totally get it & it did make a HUGE difference. But... the Heavy stuff was not all that bad to me personally. But I digress because in the end the recording is what lasts forever & the cleaner version certainly would be my choice in that instance. Great Video.

  • @jackmontano3698
    @jackmontano3698 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I have a question, that tone in the beginning was pretty good, so can’t you just mix the entire track differently to make it fit? Like Hendrix had a ton of gain from his fuzz, and Kurt contain had a literal ds1 with ear bleeding gain and it sounds amazing??? So I don’t really understand why you can’t just mix it differently

    • @DerEchteBold
      @DerEchteBold 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Why change the mix? The initial version sounds great as it is!

    • @zachary963
      @zachary963 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s what you want out of the tone. Personally I thought it sounded great heavy. Most metal heads use incredibly distorted tones. But that’s not necessarily always pleasing.
      If you do what to mix it to sound better, I would recommend cutting some of the low end frequencies and then putting a transient designer to strengthen the attack.

  • @drewcaster
    @drewcaster 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This works in the context of looping too. Adding layers with different sound dynamics adds to the overall loop and if you duplicate tones in layers it can drown out or get muddy pretty quickly.

  • @stevewarren4813
    @stevewarren4813 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    A very common "sound issue" that I have heard a lot of great players have is to play really distorted parts with POUNDS and POUNDS of delay and reverb. No!!! Stop it!!

  • @TheSullyT
    @TheSullyT 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Back when I was in a local cover band, our part time sound guy had done sound for numerous big bands and he told me and the other guitar player about this and it worked wonders.

  • @mjeetje5850
    @mjeetje5850 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Next Video Plz: You're Probably Using Too Much Reverb (and it sounds bad)

    • @genri.a9128
      @genri.a9128 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes!! And delay!

  • @walthaus
    @walthaus 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is very useful advice. I'd add that the distortion created by various stages in the amplifier or pedal can have vast differences in quality and character. IME preamp distortion tends to sound closer to a jar full of angry bees while power amp distortion sounds more like the stuff we like in those classic Rock tones, softer clipping and better transient response despite the compression kicking in.
    Which brings me to my main point that to me the amps designed for clean response ( vintage Fenders, marshalls, Voxes, etc) but driven past their normal operating range are much easier to dial in for optimal sound, albeit at higher volumes, than amps built specifically for high gain/ distortion that rely on (cascading) preamp gain (Mesa Boogie, Soldano, etc.) Those amps require much more care and experience to be dialed in correctly with regard to distortion. Pedals add to this challenge, that's why videos like this and others that show how pros dial in their gear are so useful.

  • @DevonVanNote
    @DevonVanNote 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Some of my favorite metal albums use a less gain than you think. Less gain and more layers create that huge sound.

  • @dogcowrph
    @dogcowrph 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I always learn something watching your videos. The bonus I’m entertained as well.

  • @bgmchrisc
    @bgmchrisc 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Actually, I think that guitar sound at the beginning sounds atrocious; no bite, no power, flabby all around. I wouldn't listen to any record that sounded like that.

  • @slayabouts
    @slayabouts 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Something I’ve figured out lately as well. I’ve been cutting back the gain on the amp sims and the guitars have been much clearer and cutting in my mixes

  • @numenorbear1519
    @numenorbear1519 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have found no matter how much tweaking I do on my own, the final adjustments happen during soundcheck/first song of the show. What sounds perfect in your house by itself goes out the window in a full band setting.

  • @centauriatacama1794
    @centauriatacama1794 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    My signal chain is all about push tho. I'm a fuzzes go last guy:
    CS-3 > Sansamp Classic > SD-1 > Angry Charlie v3 > HM-2W > DS-1 > Plumes.
    Those go into the Fuzzes, primarily my JHS Muffuletta, Twin Bender, or Mastotron.
    The SD-1 all the way to the Plumes are boosts. Boosting through the Plumes can give some serious headroom to any prior drives boosting. You'll need to tweak down the Saturation on the Fuzz accordingly.

  • @32herz
    @32herz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    When I was a teenager, I went balls to the walls with Big Muff cranked (but tone set to rather dark setting) in to Sovtek MIG 100H pre gain set to 3 o'clock :D (didn't go all the way because I thought it was too much :D) Sometimes I added a delay in there too.

  • @mouseanalyse
    @mouseanalyse 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Absolutely right. Figured that out myself. 2 examples: when I play along with records, alone in my practice room with lots of distortion, I added an Orange PPC212 to produce more bass. The TripleRec and VHT/Fryette FatBottom without the extra cab sounded too thin to my ears. Glorious sound when you’re standing in front of it. But on rehearsal, I don’t need to bother with the 212. The VHT cab is all I ever need. Btw EQ on the Mesa is at 12 o’clock except for the treble at 2. The gain is on 3 o’clock. More just takes away the dynamics. Also I use the rectifier setting, not the solid state rectifier. Why have a triple rectifier if you’re not using them, right? 😉
    Second example is from years back. I bought a bucket list guitar, an Ibanez K7 Korn signature guitar (the Munky one). I tried it on my then only amp: a Marshall 2210 JCM800 in an old Orange 4x12. Well that didn’t go well. Sound was all muddy and dark, no treble at all. The guitar is in drop A btw. So I decided to get the TripleRec through the same cab to get a more defined sound, with success! Lots of gain can be tricky.

    • @Eliphas_Elric
      @Eliphas_Elric 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Man I miss my old FatBottom cab. It sounded soooo good.
      You should try a Fryette Pittbull through that cab to hear the best god damned tone in the universe.

  • @stringbladestudios
    @stringbladestudios 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I really like mixing different levels of gain with double tracking. But always do what fits the song.

  • @MegaTubescreamer
    @MegaTubescreamer 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    your shows are jam packed with intelligent method and concise
    information rhett ! great to see your level of applied experience
    yet still having fun doing it your way ,its always time well spent. 👍

    • @BassTheworldcom
      @BassTheworldcom 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the feedback
      Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you.👆👆👆

  • @danieljones8706
    @danieljones8706 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a good video on how to properly use distortion and overdrive. More of it makes your instrument less noticeable clear, which is sometimes exactly what you need.

  • @cameronlesley2428
    @cameronlesley2428 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I played in a band many years ago and my rig was a peavy classic thirty a Ds1 and a strat. My counter part In the band had an a peg 4x10 bass cab and bass head with the biggest smile on the parmatic eq ever and a metal zone. Total opposites sounds and the sound guys were always happy with my tone but were pulling their hair out with other guys sound

  • @kaspar8071
    @kaspar8071 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    While being fully aware that the cleaned-up tone is better for the final mix, my personal bias is probably why I actually really liked the muddy, dirty tone on the full track. While objectively less full and articulate, the aesthetic is still pleasing to my ears.
    This is a super informative video all the same, thank you!

  • @blakjack3053
    @blakjack3053 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    As far as overdriven sounds go it's the warmth with abundant harmonic content and above all boat loads of sustain that I always seek!

  • @bradford_shaun_murray
    @bradford_shaun_murray 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool video and it makes a ton of sense. So many people just crank the distortion and think yep that will do, we've all been there.
    Sounds like a good workable distortion tone in a mix or live is about that type of drive setting where it will clean up on lighter strumming, and then get heavier gain when you get heavier on the strumming hand.
    I've heard Tim Pierce talk about this type of dynamic gain as a really workable sound around other instruments.

    • @BassTheworldcom
      @BassTheworldcom 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
      Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎉🎊🎁

  • @jackleyton5504
    @jackleyton5504 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Important message for a lot of guitarist and producers. I'm like yourself in that I had to learn this myself after years of playing and recording. I'm now 60 and have my own studio with everything from Friedman amps to Jim Kelly and Saturation levels are huge. I think the message might have gotten across even better if we could have heard the PRS dirty against say the same riff on a Marshall JCM 800. The JCM does not have to be overdriven much at all and it always sounds enormous. But if you had done that then the PRS would have looked a bit thin and silly and that wouldn't have been fair to Paul.
    I enjoy your shows...

  • @markprice1847
    @markprice1847 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What might sound even cooler is to put a Sparkle Drive or a Moonshine in front with the gain dimed but the clean blend up. Good stuff. Great video.

  • @ckturvey
    @ckturvey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember learning this lesson when I started playing with bands. That amazing saturated tone that was meaty and sound great jamming in your bedroom, but the second you got with a band with drums, bass, other guitars, etc. it would become total mush. I think we all end up with too much gain because when your practicing quietly, to get a good drive sound with sustain, you had to use a lot more gain at low overall volume levels. As you start to drive the power amp and the speakers, all that gain quickly gets in the way. This video is a much quicker way to learn it rather than the weeks and/or months to wondering why your tone is crap at band rehearsals and gigs. Great video.

  • @moetarded7757
    @moetarded7757 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice back to basics and the nutz and bolt of what we already have! Ty can we have a series that takes you to featured home studios! I would love to see you venturing into others realms to glean with glee!

  • @ZackSeifMusic
    @ZackSeifMusic 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic video Rhett!
    Love how you went through the physics of sound as well, as it is very important to learn in order to really understand what's going on in music when it comes to mixing, arranging, and trying to manipulate sound.
    I do think that the amp itself plays a huge role in this as well. Some amps fall apart if pushed too much, but high-gain amps (Mesa Mark Series, EVH 5153 etc.) that are designed to handle higher amounts of distortion can be turned up to 10 with no loss in clarity or low end flub out since the tone stack can help tame all of that. Wattage/clean headroom so that's another major factor. My trick is to find the sweet spot and work from there. There's also the whole pre-amp gain vs power-amp consideration as well.
    So many areas to explore, and factors to consider!