Bro it would need a LOT of electrons to effect the weight of a battery electrons are *almost* weightless, I’m not doubting you but I’ve never seen a battery with that type of capacity😂 what battery’s are you referring to?
@@Nickjustdabs You missed the smiley face right? There are no electrons lost at all -- they come out the negative terminal and go back in the positive one when the battery is discharging. The total number in the battery never changes.
I’ve flown these commercially for a year. They are pretty light for their size. Kinda like liion. They also have a similar voltage sag under load to liion. What is very very weird is that they seldom get hot under load. But they do get hot when being charged. I think I have about 130 hours with 12x 27 000mah of these. I’m nervous to send them below 3.4v right now but will keep reducing the end voltage over time
Would be super awesome if you could give us a run time comparison to a regular lipo of the same weight, voltage, and mah's. Or let us know if a lipo of the same mah's is lighter or heavier than the solid state. That's the only way we'll know if these solid state batteries are better or worse. Also, what does solid state even mean?? Can you explain the difference between solid state and not solid state(whatever that's called 😅)?? Aloha from Maui 😎🤙🏽
@@timtheplaneman Plus around NZ$200 for shipping 😲 And unfortunately, I don't need anything bigger than around 8,000 mAH so they're all a little big for my sub250g craft 😛
@@timtheplaneman a litium polymer battery of the same capacity would be much bigger, heavier and much more powerful. comparing their prices like this is missing the big picture imho.
@@timtheplanemanThanks! Because that is why a lot of people uses LiIon cells instead of LiPo on long range builds. For the same capacity they have much less weight, at the cost of less C rating and bigger volume. I am curious about how this one compares. :) The low voltage sag is a great thing for competitive acrobatic airplanes for example. But for FPV the energy density (both mass and volumetric) are keys. :)
@@brunofporto Isn't Li-ion smaller volume they definitely seem that way with all the batteries I have. You can get a 3000 or even up to 3800mah in 18650 a 3000mah lipo is pretty big comparatively the size difference gets more apparent as the mah increases and if you use 21700 5000mah+ cells. Edit: Also to answer your question how they compare, looking at one of these packs energy density is just under 0.24 Wh per gram and a 5000mah 21700 is just under 0.27 Wh per gram but, these are rated for 10c and the 50s is rated for 5c, the p45b is rated to 10c and it's also 0.24Wh per gram but, if you have a particularly low current build there's even the 5800mah and 6000mah cells from Lishen that are only 3c and 2c respectively. It looks like they're about spot on the same as the best li-ion cells for Wh per gram at the given C rating.
@@thirtythreeeyes8624 li íon cells for me have a bigger volume but I never did a very big one to compare :) . What got me was the weight. If these solid state cells are also lighter then they are perfect.
It's solid as opposed to liquid. LiPo and Li-Ion (and Alkaline etc) batteries have a liquid or gel electrolyte. Solid state uses ... a solid electrolyte.
No mention of cost Tim. Would this be cost effective for let’s say a comparable for a Riot for example? I currently use a 3350mah 11.1v 3s. Are these available and would it be useful for me?
That's a very good question Nick, and I must admit I haven't checked. These guys don't seem to have small batteries like that, but I will guess (bet?) they are coming. These things are great.
Oh the "OSD" is using software called Telemetry Overlay which adds the OSD elements to the video in post processing. I also used GyroFlow to stabilize the footage.
Wh/KG would be much higher if it were a true solid state. We aren't there yet. I had a similar sales pitch from a Chinese cell manufacturer touting their "solid state" lithium cells. The best cells we have in regards to density on a commercial scale are from Amprius.
It's running about 260 Wh/kg based on my testing so far at about 75% the cost of a LiPo. I can't seem to find any Li-Ion comparables. Amprius doesn't list any prices or specs on their website which I find suspicious.
@@timtheplaneman Yeah I'm not saying its not a decent pack. The solid state marketing they use is misleading at best. Cycle life is never great on those either in my experience. True solid state lithium cells would be approaching 500 Wh/kg. As for Amprius, they make cells and no packs. I will say their pricing is good for what you get. Unfortunately I can't share their cell pricing. If you want to check out some packs made with Amprius cells, I can DM you a link to some very well made ones. No I don't make them for transparency but am on the commercial side of the UAV industry.
@@caphillres makes sense. I was kind of wary when I went into this hence not publishing anything till I'd tried them. I've probably done 10-15 flights now and I'm pretty happy, but more testing to come.
@@timtheplanemanI love what you do and I think it’s important to test things others might otherwise not have the ability to do before making a purchase. Keep it up!
Hey FarkHod - it's called "Telemetry Overlay" - you have to export a "Dashware" file from Mission Planner then import that into a video. Its a little bit of work, but looks great right?
@@timtheplaneman the Telemetry overlay definitely looks great! i am testing my quad tailsitter and I needed to make a video for a client just like this.
Can you charge them ftom a normal lipo smart charger, or is the a certain type you need. A can not see a Ballance lead attached when looking at the listing on AliExpress
Yes I use my regular charger set to "LiPo" - 4.2V per cell is a full charge, and yes there is a standard balance lead, it's just tucked away in the shots.
what does solid state even mean here? how do we know this is not a liion battery marketed as a "solid state" battery? battery marketing is full of scam unfortunately :(
Definitely not LiIon, you can see the round cells through the covering. Everything is very "square" - and the performance results speak for themselves.
@@timtheplaneman The formfactor does not necessarily indicate the battery chemistry. LiIon does not need to be in 18650 shape to work. Both LiIon as well as LiPo are thin layers rolled or wrapped to maximize surface area. Iam not saying this battery isnt something great or not new technology, nobody knows that for sure except the manufacturers, I am still just sceptical. A cheaper, lighter battery with many properties of LiIon just sounds too good to be true.
@@timtheplaneman Li-Ion is a descriptive name for the transport of the electric energy inside the cells. By Lithium Ions. Versus Sodium Ion or Na+ - Natrium as the correct name of the element is. Or Aluminium, Iron, Lithium/Sulfur, Magnesium , Calcium and thousands of other combinations. All of those have Ions which can be stored in a excited form and their voltage differential is used to create power by electric current times voltage on a closed loop. Lithium metal batteries still use Lithium Ions to store energy. In a Solid State Cell in the form of Ions embedded and transported via crystal web - which makes them low but very stable. In a wet environment they are transported via the liquid electroyte and separator which may be ceramic, plastic even wood (lignin) may be used. Wet cells are more combustible because the electrolyte is flammable but the electrons are floating much faster and easier with less losses through the cells. There are many thousands of possible combinations which use lithium alone. Hence the development of all new cells all the time. 99,9% are not produced more than once because they make no profit.
Do you have a measure of accumulated mAh consumed? should be easy to enable given the current sensor. Sounds like you are working with guesswork during flight. Not sure what you mean by low voltage sag. It is a huge battery. you are drawing very low currents. what batteries do you usually fly with? as for battery capacity check, could it be you have checkers ment for lipo? different voltage range for this pack then. specs say 2.8-4.2v per cell. anyway, voltage method can be very inaccurate. more of an educated guess really, for a healthy pack.
Yes voltage method or even accumulated current draw can be very inaccurate. That's why I'm measuring it by how much it needs to recharge after the flight. See the screenshot in the video from my charger showing 4.89Ah used after 20min flight.
@@timtheplaneman if you set scale and offset properly, ardupilot(got the sense thats what you are using. maybe im wrong) mah measurement should be quite accurate. aye saw your charger measurement. more refering to airborne measurement :)
its most likely not a actual solid state battery, and its too big for even a 16000mah li-ion battery. most likely a low density Li-Po battery with fake marketing
How big would a 16000 mAh Li-Ion be? I've had a hard time finding one online to compare. I have an 8000 mAh which weighs 900g, so 2x would be just slightly bigger than this.
I’ve flown these commercially for a year. They are pretty light for their size. Kinda like liion. They also have a similar voltage sag under load to liion. What is very very weird is that they seldom get hot under load. But they do get hot when being charged. I think I have about 130 hours with 12x 27 000mah of these. I’m nervous to send them below 3.4v right now but will keep reducing the end voltage over time
This is what I was told word for word: Storage 21.6v-22.5v Our battery's discharge cut-off voltage is 3.0V, and 6x3=18V for a 6s battery The minimum discharge voltage is 2.75V, and the 6s battery has a minimum voltage of 6x2.75=16.5V Please do not lower the voltage below 16.5V during use
Don't forget that the battery will get lighter as all the electrons are used up 🙂
Ah! That explains it!
Bro it would need a LOT of electrons to effect the weight of a battery electrons are *almost* weightless, I’m not doubting you but I’ve never seen a battery with that type of capacity😂 what battery’s are you referring to?
@@Nickjustdabs You missed the smiley face right? There are no electrons lost at all -- they come out the negative terminal and go back in the positive one when the battery is discharging. The total number in the battery never changes.
🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏☠️☠️
😂😂😂😂@xjet! You're the man!
An 18650 is 50 grams, this battery is 1.03 kg. Energy/mass for this battery is about the same as a 3000 mAh 18650
I haven't maxed out this battery yet. This flight used 3000mAh - but still had 13000 mAh remaining.
I’ve flown these commercially for a year. They are pretty light for their size. Kinda like liion. They also have a similar voltage sag under load to liion. What is very very weird is that they seldom get hot under load. But they do get hot when being charged.
I think I have about 130 hours with 12x 27 000mah of these. I’m nervous to send them below 3.4v right now but will keep reducing the end voltage over time
270Wh/kg, and that's on the pack level, no cell level. that's better han Li-ion.
Yes that's what I'm seeing - it's subjectively "great" - I need to collect more data. There will be another video coming soon.
Would be super awesome if you could give us a run time comparison to a regular lipo of the same weight, voltage, and mah's. Or let us know if a lipo of the same mah's is lighter or heavier than the solid state. That's the only way we'll know if these solid state batteries are better or worse. Also, what does solid state even mean?? Can you explain the difference between solid state and not solid state(whatever that's called 😅)??
Aloha from Maui 😎🤙🏽
What I've found so far is that a 16000 mAh 6S LiPo is probably about 2kg so about 30% heavier.
2.2 kilos?? that's almost 5lbs!!
@@capnhardway I guess so, I have no idea, but this battery is only 1.5 kg so a lot lighter and therefore better. Aloha!
What I'm looking for my electric paramotor project but the price is something crazy, I need four batteries 6s 30000mAh 😁
How much can you get a 30000mAh LiPo for?
My goodness... the price!!! Maybe it's just the cost of the "free shipping" to New Zealand but these are crazy-expensive.
I guess I'm going to have to do a follow up
USD$150 for one of these vs $200 for an equivalent LiPo.
@@timtheplaneman Plus around NZ$200 for shipping 😲 And unfortunately, I don't need anything bigger than around 8,000 mAH so they're all a little big for my sub250g craft 😛
@@timtheplaneman a litium polymer battery of the same capacity would be much bigger, heavier and much more powerful. comparing their prices like this is missing the big picture imho.
@@MarkusRessel if it's the same capacity how can it be more powerful?
How does the weight and volume compare to a similar capacity and rate lipo?
Great question. I don't know the answer, I'll see what I can find.
@@timtheplanemanThanks! Because that is why a lot of people uses LiIon cells instead of LiPo on long range builds. For the same capacity they have much less weight, at the cost of less C rating and bigger volume. I am curious about how this one compares. :)
The low voltage sag is a great thing for competitive acrobatic airplanes for example. But for FPV the energy density (both mass and volumetric) are keys. :)
@@brunofporto Isn't Li-ion smaller volume they definitely seem that way with all the batteries I have. You can get a 3000 or even up to 3800mah in 18650 a 3000mah lipo is pretty big comparatively the size difference gets more apparent as the mah increases and if you use 21700 5000mah+ cells.
Edit: Also to answer your question how they compare, looking at one of these packs energy density is just under 0.24 Wh per gram and a 5000mah 21700 is just under 0.27 Wh per gram but, these are rated for 10c and the 50s is rated for 5c, the p45b is rated to 10c and it's also 0.24Wh per gram but, if you have a particularly low current build there's even the 5800mah and 6000mah cells from Lishen that are only 3c and 2c respectively. It looks like they're about spot on the same as the best li-ion cells for Wh per gram at the given C rating.
Please clarify volumetric vs gravimetric energy density
@@thirtythreeeyes8624 li íon cells for me have a bigger volume but I never did a very big one to compare :) . What got me was the weight. If these solid state cells are also lighter then they are perfect.
Corrections need to be made- voltage sag is the voltage drop under a high load!.. .
Thanks Bob - I'll make a note for my next video. Lots of new info.
Hello thanks for the review, from the the video I notice its 22.V and 355Wh total power, how it discharges curve rate compare to Amh.
All I know so far is it seems very linear. I'll be collecting more data and posting another video soon.
I wish they would manufacture smaller 2s/3s versions
You and me both
WOW nice quad plane .
MakeFlyEasy Mini Striver "Brolga" with my own custom livery!
Why has no one said this? - "Oh my god!"
Because it's fake
Not fake
why do they call the solid state - i thought that means no moving parts - ? please define the Solid State part ? - i'm confused
It's solid as opposed to liquid. LiPo and Li-Ion (and Alkaline etc) batteries have a liquid or gel electrolyte. Solid state uses ... a solid electrolyte.
No mention of cost Tim.
Would this be cost effective for let’s say a comparable for a Riot for example?
I currently use a 3350mah 11.1v 3s. Are these available and would it be useful for me?
That's a very good question Nick, and I must admit I haven't checked. These guys don't seem to have small batteries like that, but I will guess (bet?) they are coming. These things are great.
I guess this company only goes down to 11000 mAh, but I'm guessing others might start making them.
What is your Video Transmission system and also OSD??
On this one I am only recording. I'll be adding a SiYi A8 mini sending video over LTE, stay tuned for more interesting videos.
Oh the "OSD" is using software called Telemetry Overlay which adds the OSD elements to the video in post processing. I also used GyroFlow to stabilize the footage.
This is wild! Do you recommend any for edf jets?
I'm not sure - would your EDF draw more than 160 Amps?
@@timtheplaneman most of the time 80 but maybe up to 120
@@Pretend_pilotFPV Look it seems to me it should work, but I have no way to test it so I hesitate to "recommend" it.
Wh/KG would be much higher if it were a true solid state. We aren't there yet. I had a similar sales pitch from a Chinese cell manufacturer touting their "solid state" lithium cells. The best cells we have in regards to density on a commercial scale are from Amprius.
It's running about 260 Wh/kg based on my testing so far at about 75% the cost of a LiPo. I can't seem to find any Li-Ion comparables. Amprius doesn't list any prices or specs on their website which I find suspicious.
@@timtheplaneman Yeah I'm not saying its not a decent pack. The solid state marketing they use is misleading at best. Cycle life is never great on those either in my experience. True solid state lithium cells would be approaching 500 Wh/kg.
As for Amprius, they make cells and no packs. I will say their pricing is good for what you get. Unfortunately I can't share their cell pricing. If you want to check out some packs made with Amprius cells, I can DM you a link to some very well made ones. No I don't make them for transparency but am on the commercial side of the UAV industry.
@@caphillres makes sense. I was kind of wary when I went into this hence not publishing anything till I'd tried them. I've probably done 10-15 flights now and I'm pretty happy, but more testing to come.
@@timtheplanemanI love what you do and I think it’s important to test things others might otherwise not have the ability to do before making a purchase. Keep it up!
@@caphillres Yup - more testing coming soon.
Where can we buy them from , I would be interested in 7s and 8s !
Link in the description. AliExpress, here it is www.aliexpress.com/store/1102672394
Hey Tim! What is the HUD that you put up on the screen? Where did you get that?
Hey FarkHod - it's called "Telemetry Overlay" - you have to export a "Dashware" file from Mission Planner then import that into a video. Its a little bit of work, but looks great right?
@@timtheplaneman the Telemetry overlay definitely looks great! i am testing my quad tailsitter and I needed to make a video for a client just like this.
Can you charge them ftom a normal lipo smart charger, or is the a certain type you need. A can not see a Ballance lead attached when looking at the listing on AliExpress
Yes I use my regular charger set to "LiPo" - 4.2V per cell is a full charge, and yes there is a standard balance lead, it's just tucked away in the shots.
what's the max C? The biggest i could find was like 20 or 30?
This battery is 10C but with 16000 capacity, 10C = 160 Amps which is about 10x the max draw on this plane even when using the VTOL motors.
what does solid state even mean here? how do we know this is not a liion battery marketed as a "solid state" battery? battery marketing is full of scam unfortunately :(
Definitely not LiIon, you can see the round cells through the covering. Everything is very "square" - and the performance results speak for themselves.
@@timtheplaneman The formfactor does not necessarily indicate the battery chemistry. LiIon does not need to be in 18650 shape to work. Both LiIon as well as LiPo are thin layers rolled or wrapped to maximize surface area. Iam not saying this battery isnt something great or not new technology, nobody knows that for sure except the manufacturers, I am still just sceptical. A cheaper, lighter battery with many properties of LiIon just sounds too good to be true.
Nice!
Thanks JD
What was the weight
It's about 1.6kg. I might do a follow up video with all the details.
Great video and interesting thread 🇦🇺👍🇦🇺
Thanks Clive - yeah lots of interest!
Responds like li-ion.
Perhaps but the specs on the bottom end go way below what even Li-Ion can do.
It is a Li-Ion battery with soldi state chemistry. There are many possible chemistries with lithium out there.
@@timtheplaneman It is a Li-Ion battery with solid state chemistry. There are many possible chemistries with lithium out there.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 I am suspicious you may be right, but I need to find out more.
@@timtheplaneman Li-Ion is a descriptive name for the transport of the electric energy inside the cells. By Lithium Ions.
Versus Sodium Ion or Na+ - Natrium as the correct name of the element is.
Or Aluminium, Iron, Lithium/Sulfur, Magnesium , Calcium and thousands of other combinations.
All of those have Ions which can be stored in a excited form and their voltage differential is used to create power by electric current times voltage on a closed loop.
Lithium metal batteries still use Lithium Ions to store energy.
In a Solid State Cell in the form of Ions embedded and transported via crystal web - which makes them low but very stable. In a wet environment they are transported via the liquid electroyte and separator which may be ceramic, plastic even wood (lignin) may be used.
Wet cells are more combustible because the electrolyte is flammable but the electrons are floating much faster and easier with less losses through the cells.
There are many thousands of possible combinations which use lithium alone.
Hence the development of all new cells all the time. 99,9% are not produced more than once because they make no profit.
Nice! What plane is this? I think I will get one, looks great!
Its and MFE (Make Fly Easy) Striver Mini - very nice plane.
Interesting, thank you for the video.
But... 12 Amps and almost 3 Volts of sag... At full battery that is... 😮😏🤔😑 Not for me.
I'm pretty sure my current sensor isn't properly calibrated. I think it's about 3.5x so probably 42 amps with 4x VTOL motors running.
what plane is that?
It's a MakeFlyEasy Striver Mini - I call it the "Brolga". Thanks for watching!
Do you have a measure of accumulated mAh consumed? should be easy to enable given the current sensor. Sounds like you are working with guesswork during flight. Not sure what you mean by low voltage sag. It is a huge battery. you are drawing very low currents. what batteries do you usually fly with? as for battery capacity check, could it be you have checkers ment for lipo? different voltage range for this pack then. specs say 2.8-4.2v per cell. anyway, voltage method can be very inaccurate. more of an educated guess really, for a healthy pack.
Yes voltage method or even accumulated current draw can be very inaccurate. That's why I'm measuring it by how much it needs to recharge after the flight. See the screenshot in the video from my charger showing 4.89Ah used after 20min flight.
@@timtheplaneman if you set scale and offset properly, ardupilot(got the sense thats what you are using. maybe im wrong) mah measurement should be quite accurate. aye saw your charger measurement. more refering to airborne measurement :)
@@akujiwar Yes I'm using ArduPilot. "properly" is something I'm still working on 🙂
cool
It really is. I flew them again yesterday, they really work well.
its most likely not a actual solid state battery, and its too big for even a 16000mah li-ion battery.
most likely a low density Li-Po battery with fake marketing
How big would a 16000 mAh Li-Ion be? I've had a hard time finding one online to compare. I have an 8000 mAh which weighs 900g, so 2x would be just slightly bigger than this.
sounds like a Chinese scam😂
I'm pretty happy with the results.
25 minutes? Mi DJI drone gives me 40 minutes and is not a solid state. You bought snake oil dude!
25 minutes is only 30% used. I'm a long way from finding the max on this. Does your DJI drone weigh 7.5 kg?
I’ve flown these commercially for a year. They are pretty light for their size. Kinda like liion. They also have a similar voltage sag under load to liion. What is very very weird is that they seldom get hot under load. But they do get hot when being charged.
I think I have about 130 hours with 12x 27 000mah of these. I’m nervous to send them below 3.4v right now but will keep reducing the end voltage over time
This is what I was told word for word: Storage
21.6v-22.5v
Our battery's discharge cut-off voltage is 3.0V, and 6x3=18V for a 6s battery
The minimum discharge voltage is 2.75V, and the 6s battery has a minimum voltage of 6x2.75=16.5V
Please do not lower the voltage below 16.5V during use