We Play with Hearthstone Mana | Commander Clash S17 E08
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2024
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So the rules for this game were: you can't ramp in any way, your deck has no lands, but you get an Everywhere land each turn. We also decided to avoid thing that explicitly abuse the Everywhere lands (like a Domain deck, for example).
It would be interesting to have the 3 card hand(max 10) with specific mulligan and max 10 mana. Would have made card draw useful
I would have kept the mana colors. Let the player choose a basic land every turn.
I'm surprised Crim didn't go with Soul of Windgrace.
Land destruction is op in this version. The ability to steal your opponents' destroyed lands is even better.
I would have adapted it a bit. Still no ramp, but have a land library made up of everywhere tokens. That way you get around the discard to hand size, because you can always draw one land per turn when you need it.
What about smeagol? First ring tempt, kill some one turn 5
It all makes sense: commander clash is why the everything token is so expensive.
As soon as I saw them playing individual Everywhere tokens, I had the same thought
fr tho the tokens and overlord of the hauntwoods seem way too expensive its 3 mana ramp!! (i need a copy for my esix deck)
Well you should've started with 3 cards in hand like hearthstone in this lol, hand size in MTG is only this large cause of lands
Game would have gone a lot different
Crim: Isn't dead.
Table: and I took that personally.
Look what happens when he draws lands!
He's too powerful, we have to stop him
"Reanimator would be busted", he said, right after winning with a patriarch's bidding. For which he tutored and immediately discarded a chasm guide two turns earlier.
Seth: we have to remove that... so I can win next turn. Richard, "definitely".
Ok, so now we need a Duel Masters mana game where you play your spells upside down (as lands, no real lands allowed) to tap for its colors
“This week on commander clash, Crim doesn’t get to play this week.”
I saw the title and thought Rarran was going to be here. I can’t wait to see him and Crim play though.
Same😂
i really hope hes doing a collab with goldfish group soon. his collab videos are awesome
Sometimes I don´t understand the threat assessment at the table.
The literal only way Phil doesn´t lose is by letting Crim use the disk. So he decides to kill Crim?
Crim is there down in the dirt trying to keep everyone in check, putting his own board state behind, doing gods work.
They take it personally and kill him for it, then die immediately on the clap back
Right? I was thinking the same thing
yup... i dont get it either. And it didnt make sense for entertainment as seth already won last game.
dude ! right ? seth gains 24 life and Phil immediately said "now I gotta kill Crim!" and I'm sitting here like HUH????
you gotta understand the only crime that is unforgivable to phil is wiping his board :P
I can't believe Seth is playing my 2016 Modern Deck this week
Samish here, but I didn't see no Halimar Excavators/ self mill and Return to Ranks/Rally the Ancients; that build has to be broken in this "format".
turn 3 propaganda, turn 4 ghostly prison, turn 5 sphere of safety, turn 6 collective restraint. Good luck boys!
Add Tutors for said cards
It’s almost like the game isn’t designed to use inferior mechanics
all the complaining about teferi, yet winota is totally fine lmao
8:48 I guess you can say Expedition Envoy is just a Savannah Allyons 😂
Insane that Phil killed crim when he had the out.
I'd love to see a rematch in this format now that you all have more information about how the format works; come back with new game plans.
Honestly would love to see more of this, I think seeing the deckbuilding is way more unique for this
Winota gets a huge buff in this format because you dont whiff on lands
This reminds me of the TCG Force of Will, it died off in my town due to lack of players but it sort of played like this. You had a separate deck for your mana (called stones in that game) and it had a built in commander-like mechanic into the deck building where your deck had a "ruler". The game was fun, but unfortunately didn't get off the ground here.
Man, same in my area. I still have all the decks from when it was starting up also
"A LOT" The editor just gave up on the combat damage at the end 🤣
good ol' Coat of Arms making math too much of a burden
My brother and I have done "hero powers" magic.
Choose a 1 cost instant or sorcery to add to your command zone. It now costs 2 and can be used once per turn cycle.
If we were to play it again I'd probably add the cost can't be modified, it counts as a typeless card, and only on your turns (to help combat the really broken interactions with a guaranteed spell each turn).
I’ve been playing some hearthstone lately and as a long time magic player honestly it’s pretty nice not having to worry about losing games to flood/screw.
Yeah, but it feels like you're playing portal magic, because you basically can't interact with your opponent.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl I completely agree with that, it can be really frustrating not being able to interact with my opponent but honestly I feel less frustrated by that than losing a game just because the cards weren’t cooperating with me. Idk I’m split on hearthstone but it’s a nice break after getting stomped on by mono red etc lol
I played Hearthstone 5 years ago and loved playing Pirate Rogue in wild. I came back yesterday only to find it's arguably even stronger now than it was when I played, and I dont even have an optimal deck lmao.
@@Gorbgorbenson that’s awesome! I also love the new player experience with hearthstone, the loaner decks you get to play and keep one of actually feel like real meta decks and not just token offerings like what arena gives you.
@Asian_Caleb Yeah, I think the only negative of Hearthstone over Arena is that commons and rares (their uncommons) are harder to acquire outside of cracking packs. Though card quality is higher at common and rare in hearthstone, it feels.
Phil killing Crim in game two doesn't make much sense to me, but so it goes.
I agree with Richards analysis for this version of clash, and I think another rule should have been added where your creatures can attack other creatures, as that's part of how the mana balances out. Your removal is removal, but so are your creatures.
Does HS also have a 7 creature / enchantment/ artifact board limit?
In hearthstone you also can't mix classes(colors)
At that point you're not playing a different format but a fundamentally different gamr
Why did Phil kill Crim and kingmake Seth? Crazy suboptimal play considering crim had the wrath to save them on board
Yeah.. kind of made game 2 suck.
I really like Phil, but sometimes his decision making is just so terrible, takes me a bit out of it (though in reality maybe it was late and he just wanted the game to go out on a bang instead of everyone needing to rebuild).
they do this constantly to specifically crim A LOT lol.. and it's so fucking weird like I don't get it.
Rather than the Everywhere lands I think what might work better is having each player choose a basic land of any type on their upkeep and put that one into play. Otherwise every deck ought to just be 5 colour good stuff.
"The taxing is not part of Hearthstone." I haven't played in a while but... IIIIII SEEEE YOUUUUUUU
Crim: "The taxing is not part of Hearthstone."
Me:*flashbacks to every major tax effect card in the game*
I don't think the "no ramp" is a Hearthstone limitation. That game has ramp. Now, no instant speed? THAT'S Hearthstone-y.
T3feri made Crim's opponents play at Hearthstonecery speed. :)
I wouldn't mind you guys trying it one more time in the future with the experience you gained from this game. No rush but I think it would be neat.
It probably would make sense to start the game with only 4-5 cards to make up some slots that would be filled by lands normally. It would also reduce the amount of discard in the beginning.
I imagine this will just be super fair!
Very satisfying watching a week with 0 ramp. When the game is nearly always, who ramps the best and fastest either wins or becomes a threat and the whole narrative of the game is ramping...it's very refreshing when everyone is on an even playing field mana wise, let's the focus of the game be about what you are doing...and complaining about having no mana.
I liked the way Force of Will tcg used mana. Tap you commander in the command zone to get a land from a seperate deck.
Oh the self-control to not Charbelcher or Winds of Abandon or Mind Grind or anything like that
Play Mirko Vosk in the command zone, then all the things possible give him haste
@@KVGKQuake It might be too telegraphed
@@Kryptnyt true. Probably just run so kinds of surveil and scry to find that stuff
Seth with the fierce guardianship!!! You were destined to destroy the sith not join them!!!
Winota is doubly powerful in this format BECAUSE there is no land or ramp chaff that can blank an entire trigger. Absolutely nuts in this format.
This should be its own format, honestly. Cut the card count down to 60, keep the singleton rule and create a separate ban list.
And instead of using actual lands to keep track of your mana count, just use dice, and spin down as you use the mana.
game 2 kingmake
but game 1 was pure taking advantage of the discard for turn rule. yall shouldve started at 3 cards in hand because seth filling his graveyard for free and reanimating was kinda bullshit
When Seth's about to win but the time says your only half way through the video: "oh, richard has a fog"
I love when you guys have fun with the format
This would be a fun one to return to, since it seems everyone learned a lot about how this particular restriction will play out and it might be pretty different next time.
Only 10 minutes in, but if we're not seeing a blood moon this game I will be very disappointed
Ok, serious thought. Could this solve some Cube problems too?! But you choose a basic, not an everywhere land
That's not a problem in cube
It's frankly incredible how often Crim will have the smallest board with no immediate threats and the entire table will go "we need to start getting Crim's stuff off the board".
Meanwhile there's an obliterator, an ever growing army of tokens, and a building mass of allies.
Edit: I just don't get anyone's mindset this episode. Why would you kill Crim before he could wrath when Seth just popped off like that? What was everyone so concerned about?
the commander clash grang is notoriously bad at threat assessment
That's what he get's for never saying "Clash On"
@@thatepicwizardguyI don't know. They seem pretty average to me if you compare it to every pod I've been in
I don't know, Innkeeper's Talent with Oath of Teferi is a pretty scary set up in a superfriends deck. If Crim sweeper the board there I think he's almost guaranteed to win.
@@beanofknowledge2125 The real reason
I've consider this as a concept, but I think having a separate deck of your 40 lands and you can choose to draw from one or the other would be an interesting concept.
Threat assessment was really bad this weak idk what everyone was thinking
It usually is. Tommer and Crim are the only 2 with good threat assessment
Ooo cant wait to watch this, thanks for the commander video :) ❤
Love these creative ideas and such. Hope for more in the future!
OO, could be fun trying so many different ways to play with different mana systems. like how Force of Will TCG had its stone deck, WoW TCG had the any card is your mana, Duel Masters had anything was a resource but only made the colors the card was. Just love the idea to see how the game would work.
This is a great theme to experiment with! 😊
I miss moto sometimes, don't have as much information available to us. But thankfully Crim shows us his hand every 2 minutes 😼
You could have committed more to Hearthstone ruling by starting with 3 cards in hand and max hand size is 10! That way you do not have to discard down to hand so much.
Wait... Did Seth just cast his Commander? On curve?! NO WAY! What are these crazy rules doing to him!
(please keep doing this alternate rules :D )
Hate how you guys kinda bullied crim from enjoying his this week
They always do
You guys should have had the same starting hand size as hearthstone as well. Games without land systems usually start with 3-4 cards in hand. In normal magic, half your deck is lands, so you effectively have less gas in hand, so you start with 7. You guys essentially started the game with a 14 card hands. That would obviously help the aggro decks so much
Seth playing Ally's makes me remember my first deck I built was Ally's. I always wanted to bring them back I mostly used harabaz druid to tap for a bunch of mana.
i was sad i did not see crim or richard decks do much
Did i miss something or should Crim skip this season and Tomer should play? Or do I remember that wrong? Didnt see Tomer a lot in the last few episodes.
Season with Tomer is over and we're back to Crim... JK, Tomer had something important come up so there's a stretch of episodes where Crim is standing in. Once Tomer is back, Crim will be benched again (they stated so on their podcast)
Tomer had a family thing come up and had to be away for a few weeks so Crim has been filling in. Tomer should be back next episode and in all (hopefully, assuming nothing comes up) the episodes for the foreseeable future.
I like all the dudes but Tomer and his playstyle is my favourite! Hope he's doing well.
This was really interesting to watch!!
I had an idea where we could have a hearthstone like format with nonbasic lands. A seperate land deck, at the start of the game you draw 5 cards, and have a regular London mulligan starting at 5, and then you draw two lands from your Lands deck.
In your draw step each turn, you choose whether you draw from your Lands deck or your spells deck. Spells that search for a land search the lands deck, and spell tutors the spells deck, when you scry or surveil, you can choose which deck tomdo it on, shuffling one deck does not require shuffling the other.
You still have a minimum play set of 60 cards, its up to you how you want to split them.
I don't think this would work very well in 1v1, as land variance is about 20% of the game, honestly, and this would honestly encourage people to play as few lands as possible.
Land destruction would actually be more acceptable in this format, I think, as it would punish a small lands deck and the garuntee of being able to replace the lands is much more forgiving.
Would be interested to see someone try it out. I don't have the paper decks necessary to really do it.
I would love to see another epsiode of this espcially with this expiernce in mind with deck buidling and maybe start with less cards and ban reanimator
The justice strike Phil discardes would have been good against Richard’s Phyrexian obliterator!
Honestly I liked it. I feel like you would need a couple of more clashes to truly find out the nuances. Can't durdle gotta interect.
This was pretty funny to watch, hopefully we get to see it again someday, especially now that you guys have some experience with it and can improve deckbuilding.
...
Winota is such a messed up card x-x
Btw, four player Hearthstone alone would be next, next level!
I guess this was the solution to fix Crim's land screw problem without him playing Green XD
I'm sad they didn't print out mana crystals
Everyone should start with 3 cards. Last player should have the coin* (lotus petal) it would make game last longer less card selection.😊
I think a way to make this a bit more interesting would be that you can play basic lands from outside the game rather than everywhere tokens. Otherwise there is 0 reason to not just be 5 color pip pile and then you also don't have to ban domain
Game 2 is a pretty good illustration of why you can't build Winota "casual"
Curvestone is real!
Isn't convergence similar to domain(which is banned)?
Domain profits off the land just existing. Converge still needs you to tap your lands
According to Cardmarket price trend they spent atleast 81,72 Euro (or 89.43 dollars) on Everywhere tokens.
So Lorcana rules next time?
Either no lands in deck, play any card face-down as an "everywhere" as land-for-turn and ramp just takes your topdeck and puts it face-down also as an "everywhere."
Or, normal deck building, but you may play any card face-down as a waste to mitigate missing lands.
Very nice to watch, if this is done again maybe starting at 5 cards in hand makes more sense?
I am not sure if it still the case but you used to be able to ramp in hearthstone. I think this would have been so much better with ramp as it could not be land ramp. The way this was played out anything that buffs your board is killer. Slivers would have been pretty busted.
There where *very* few ramp spells in hearthstone
Shadowverse Evolve is pretty close to mtg but with hearthstone mana but the opening hand is 4 to compensate for the max hand size problem
Crim activated his walker twice, Richard pulled him up on it but it still happened anyway
Did he have Oath of Teferi at that point?
Convoke and cascade would be so helpful in this
Man, Phil and that caretaker's talent are like white on rice at this point
This makes me think a momir episode would be sweet!
I think it would be even more intersting to run this with the Hearthstone much more restrictive starting hand
That Mockingbird copying Winota was soooo wack
Wow, I love this concept, lol.
Surveyo's stock is already hitting 6 dollars, Richard is on track to become the richest man in the world soon
According to TCGPlayer, it increased by 1404.35% from July to October
Me personally ill just play Kambal Profiteering Mayor
I think it would be really interesting to see more of these with ramp as an option with a starting had size of 3-4 similar to Hearthstone. With 7 cards you just have access to too many cards and card draw isn't really necessary.
Of course there are so many new games that use better mana systems than MTG that it would probably be better to just play those because they are balanced around it. Lorcana and Star Wars Unlimited are the most recent ones that I have been playing with that comes to mind. Would love to see you guys play free for all Star Wars Unlimited / Lorcana :). It is always fun to watch your games.
I‘m personally very sad that Crim didn’t choose to run a Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker deck for this. Or at least a deck that has Mind Grind and similar effects in it.
Yeah, those cards were soft-banned for the episode (anything that could auto-win because our decks had zero lands was off limits).
Omg Yu-gi-oh next.
Like the others suggested, following the hand size of the game it's inspired by is prolly helpful. Enchantments are field spells so only one at a time and playing a new one destroys the old one. Instants and sorceries need to be set before activating. Instants can technically be flipped right away. Sorceries need to wait a full turn maybe.
Maybe summoning 1 to 4 cmc creatures is broken but maybe it's fine since the max creature count is 5 and you'd need a sac outlet if ever. 5 cmc above stuff follow the summon rules where you gotta sac a certain number of creatures to do so
I'm a big fan of the Star Wars Unlimited mana system, might be fun to try in a mtg commander game.
Maybe you can try next time OP way of going up in recources? (might be too much tho)
I actually have that ally deck built. It’s pretty fun.
Why did Phil kill Crim? To save on time because it was game 2? I don't understand.
Would be fun to see how starting with less cards in hand (e.g. equal to Hearthstone) would change how this works. You technically draw 2 cards considering you get a land every turn. Then again, maybe for multiplayer just having a lot of ressources is more fun. Or you could increase handsize to 10 (like Hearthstone) to not immdiately have to discard.
You should be able to ramp with anything but land ramp. Because they all can be interacted with easier. And Hearthstone has ramp cards
Or have a limit to the number of ramp cards
I have a winota deck… I’ve missed her finding humans in that deck and it’s designed for her ability. WTH Seth! Love to see winota decks win though🤣 even the ones that aren’t winota decks
the only way phil has a chance is keeping crim to hit the disk
Did crim cast a damn at instant speed?
Edit: I got distracted and didn't see teferi
Teferi lets him do that
The instant speed casting doesn't rely on Teferi being on the battlefield either. Crim could've waited out casting the Damn until someone attacked him for lethal. Instead, he used it early whenever Teferi was being destroyed, which allowed Seth to reanimate all those creatures
Commander clash starting to look like an Commander ffl design laboratory
Looked really fun