Make Ferric Chloride (for etching printed circuit boards)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- We make ferric chloride, a well-known etchant for printed circuit boards.
Get 20g of iron. This can be in the form of nails or steel wool. It's best to use iron that's rusting, that indicates it doesn't have other metals like zinc or chromium that's normally used to prevent rust. To the iron add 100mL of water and 100mL of 12M hydrochloric acid. The iron will start reacting with the acid to produce hydrogen gas and ferrous chloride. If the reaction is proceeding too slowly for your liking you can heat up the mixture. A flask of cold water on top is useful to reduce evaporative losses.
Once the ferrous chloride solution is made it needs to be oxidized to ferric chloride. The fast way of doing this is to add 200mL of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Do this slowly with lots of stirring as the solution will heat up a lot. If it gets too hot to hold (about 60 celsius) stop and let it cool before adding the rest of the peroxide. If you don't want to use peroxide the slow and cheap way of oxidizing it is to bubble in air using an aquarium pump. It can take several days but it has the added advantage of keeping the solution concentrated.
After oxidation you'll have a solution of ferric chloride ready for use.
A large fraction of my viewers are DIY hackers, makers, amateurs and electrical engineers. This video is for all of you.
how did you evaporate it? and so is it anhydrous?
can I not just use the acid without adding water,
hey bro, how to crystallize ferric chloride?
Ferric Chloride is also very useful for etching other metas besides copper. It works great on stainless steel and iron.. I use it to make labels and logos on stainless steel plates that i attach to finished projects, label metal parts, tools, knife blades, etc. It's also a good way to put a three dimensional pattern pattern or texture on a metal surface that would otherwise be difficult and time consuming using grinders or files. An aquarium bubbler is useful when etching. Ferric Chloride does not bubble when it dissolves metal, so it does not naturally agitate itself to keep the acid fresh near where is need to work..
It's also pretty good for showing Widmanstätten patterns in meteorites too.
This video was made because a lot of viewers requested it. Let me know if you think i shouldn't listen to my viewers.
Oh wait a minute, you're a viewer.
Ferric chloride is awesome for etching knife blades! Thanks for this video!
I've used Ferric Chloride before to etch PCBs but never new how it was made. Cool.
Its weird that no one ever requested hcl/peroxide but lots of people requested ferric chloride. Then when i show ferric chloride i get a large number of people requesting HCl/peroxide. ah well ;)
You can't please everybody. Thanks for all the education you share with us.
Well, now I want to know how to make hydrogen peroxide.
if its already dark brown FeCl3 then gently heating to make it evaporate faster won't be an issue. But If you heat it too strongly while dry it'll decompose into FeCl2 and chlorine. So just heat it until you reduce the volume considerably, and the let evaporation do the rest.
I got a job at a etching company and soon introduced to working with Ferric Chloride. Pretty cool stuff.
My first job making about 40,000 lbs/batch, dissolves 10,000 lbs. of steel chopper scrap in 2 hrs. Don't forget free acid 2%, if it gets cloudy watch out, low acid, could become unstable and revert to ferrous chloride and chlorine gas. The dry stuff can be unstable too.
Could you go through the Fenton Reaction you used during the last oxidation step? It is a fascinating piece of chemistry that tends to go under appreciated, and I was quite surprised when you used it.
If you don't have peroxide you can still make ferric chloride by bubbling air through the ferrous chloride. The unused etchant also keeps indefinetely unlike peroxide/hcl.
I have no idea what you are doing 95% of the time but I still subscribed and watch your videos
You are one of the better TH-cam edumacators that put regular schooling to shame.
I love this guy. He gets me interested in science and chemisty...my true loves of life :)
Thanks for the tutorial. We use ferric chloride in ceramic to make great colors on rakued art. Can buy small bottle for $9, now we can have lots for little cost. Thanks NurdRage
say you etched a bunch of boards. Is the a way to remove the copper and restore the Ferric Chloride?
Awesome.PCB from Radio Shack is used by custom knifemakers for various finishes on blades as well as to bring out features in the steel such as temper lines or to make "damascus" pattern welded blades really pop.Iv'e heard complaints that the PCB can be difficult to find at times.I can now refer them to this great tutorial on making it themselves!. Great video as always.
Given that both of your iron sources (nails and steel wool) are actually steel, I'm curious if the trace amounts of carbon and other alloying materials have any effect on the reaction. I'm guessing it's a negligible effect or you'd tell us to get pure iron or iron oxide, but do you know whether the carbon is still mixed in with the ferric chloride or went into a side reaction whose result evaporated or something?
Thanks, use this in my shop and it is pain to locate sometimes. Easier to make and have volume. Your the best channel on here
Thank you for the air pump solution. Now I don't need to buy a 10 gallon bottle of a hydrogen peroxide concentrate when I only need like a 0.1 liter or less.
how you evaporates it? are you just heat it directly or there's another thing to do??
You can heat it or let it sit
its amazing how simply this can be made with storebought concentrations of these chemicals and end up being far cheaper than buying pre-made ferric chloride.
Thank you so much!
Also, woud be great if you show how to recover the solution after it has been used a lot, and not working anymore.
Cool video !
I prefer when simple products are used because it is simple for a beginner
I wish TH-cam would have been around back in high school!
Many years ago I was doing a lot of circuit boards in this acid (I didnt make it myself though). I remember that I drew with a special pen where I wanted the cobber not to go. How did that Work? What did the pen do?
i just started a chemistry degree and as much as i love the practicals and the new theory's, there is ALOT of maths and physics that are never really taught at school i think you should do a one-off video to demonstrate some physical chemistry and the calculations behind it
The trick to crystalize this is a desiccating bag/chamber.
I found a good trick for making a good desiccating chamber . I used a large rubbermaid tub that seals completely.
I bought crystal kitty litter which is pure silica gel . I use a half of a coffee can with mostly the silica gel and about a cup full of Sodium Hydroxide. This mix seems to work just as fast as if it were sodium hydroxide alone, but way way cheaper.
This is one of the most interesting channels ever
usually there's a very powerful fan which mixes in a lot of atmospheric air, thus diluting the fumes, as well as the system being made of something fairly inert like stainless steel. You'd be surprised how well materials hold up to fumes even if they wouldn't hold up under direct exposure to the reaction/reactants in liquid form.
You are the first youtube I ever watched
76% HCl is not possible to contain (it would be a high pressure gas) the maximum that can be made liquid at atmospheric pressure is 40%. I don't think you have HCl there, might be something else.
Hehe tak. Men underligt at en pen kunne forhindre stærk syre i at ætse kobberet. Jeg forstår slet ikke hvorfor det ikke blev ætset fra undersiden. Hvad indeholdt den pen?
There is also a nice way to etch copper circuits with NaCl + CuSO4 solution in water. Always wondered how in works.
Its probably ~37% then. you'll have to titrate it to be certain. But there is no way you can have 76% HCl, what does it say on the bottle?
I remember this from high school - we used to keep this stuff in a Coca Cola bottle (it even has a similar dark-brownish tint) and joked that coke dissolves even the copper on our PCBs :D
So sorry for the ignorant question.... but are there any health risks from fumes in this process?
Yes, you'll want to do this outdoors or under a fume hood or with a respirator appropriate for filtering chemicals.
Hydrogen gas is being released. Keep away from ign sources
0:34 why it's colour turned yellow , is hcl yellow is colour ? And which acid is used for toilet cleaner which is yellow is colour in my case ?
It will work if you add the hydrogen peroxide before speeding up the dissolve of the iron?
i tried this years ago. My problem was when boiling it down it it formed what i thought was a sol. I basically turned brown and looked more like a suspention and gave up thinking it was the wrong route. At the time ihad the impression Ferric and ferrous chloride looked the same exept one formed a true solution while the other formed a sol. I would like to see a video on sols from you, I havent seen one on YT, and sols are quite interesting
You can get it at most hardware stores in a crude form... look for "muriatic acid." In the USA, it comes as about a 30% HCl which is pretty concentrated.
Muriatic acid is used for concrete etching and pool pH maintenance, so it chould be found at a pool store and at hardware stores. HTH.
I've used one part muriatic acid to two parts hydrogen peroxide to etch my boards because it remains transparent in use so that I could see the progress of the etch without taking the board out. The fumes are the main issue and the etch needs to be done outside.
Back to Basics: Can you please make a series of short videos teaching us how to make simple acids, bases, compounds needed in most general experiments?
+NurdRage, would this be good enough to etch metals such as steel? Or is it good for only circuit boards?
Im loooking for a way to etch metals for swordmaking, but common acids such as vinegar work but take rather long, so i would have to resort to more aggressive acids.
Wanting to do my own etching at home, this will certainly start to explain possible methods and the chemistry behind them :)
I'm just here because I love to stuff happen because of other stuff that... uh does something to the stuff. And hopefully learn something along the way. Thank you for uploading.
there's usually some HCL left, so don't breathe the fumes. But otherwise, as long as you have adequate ventilation, it's fine.
As always, this is a really great video.
Would it be possible to make a video on making potassium persulfate or sodium persulfate? Those two chemicals have been my preferred copper enchants for years now.
Hi great vid and im becoming a fan of nurdrage.As for storing in crystal form and returning it to working etchant. Do i mix with water, hcl or do something else.Many thanks in advance of any replies.
Can we make FeCl3 battery. If yes how much its voltage will be.
Very good. I always wondered how to make ferric chloride as I use it to etch my PCBs.
Is it needed to have excess acid? Wouldn't decanting and leaving the excess iron be better?
I'm trying to save $20 vs buying a bottle. The acid costs that much too unless I find someone who will give me some.
I don't have a fume hood, so I might just buy.
This could come in handy now that Radio Shack is out of business. I used to buy ferric chloride from them, but now I would need to mail order it. But muriatic acid is available from the hardware store so I can still have a local source.
How many time took the final solution to evaporate???
I have a request. Grignard reagents used to make whatever chemical you choose - explaining the chemistry and applications of those particular reagents. If not, something organic and synthetic. Ortho, para and meta aromatics and how to synthesize and/or seperate the products?
+NurdRage How would you tell the air pump has fully oxidized FeCl2 to FeCl3? I understand that by using H2O2 one would tell by no more heat production and fizzing in the solution. But through the course of time, with the pump, when to be sure? Would we need to evaporate the liquid and then separate the rusty yellowish powder (FeCl2) from the greenish crystals (FeCl3)? Very cool vids btw, awesome stuff, thanks for sharing.
I made a large gallon jar half filled by using a lot of steel wool. Now I have 12% peroxide and am I correct that I do not need to use so much of it? Is there a simple way to know that I have added enough peroxide for a effective Ferric Chloride to be made? The small amount I have added, in two does, did turn it very dark fast. I'm letting it cool down now, and I have a choice between putting a pump on it to aerate it, or add more peroxide. I know that I can never aerate it too much, and that I could either use too little peroxide, or use too much.
Regarding PCB, I used to make PCB and I hated using Ferric Chloride. It's slow, it requires heating (you have to get the etching fast enough so the solution doesn't start to seep under the positive mask), it stains. Ugh.
A better solution we found was Nitric Acid. Yep. Very diluted and good for many uses. turns a lovely shade of blue when it has enough Cu ions. The only caveat was the amount of care and safety needed when preparing the diluted solution, smoking nitric acid is no joke.
I was wondering if there is a good way to recycle this or at least neutralize it for disposal?
Does iron chloride help slow down the rust a bit when picking a knife in it?
How many days it took for you that ferrous chloride changed to ferric by air? and does it strong enough as ferric made by H2O2?
Whoa, the new Intro is great!
i was worried, that you didn't mention the fumehood at the beginning, but was relieved to see the the beaker with hydrocloric acid in your hand...
I use ferric chloride because the reaction is slower and more gentle on the printed traces. For me hydrochloric acid + h2o2 usually damaged very thin lines.
Nice video. But žhat really interests me is whether it's possible to regenerate ferric chloride that had been used for long time and has lots of copper in it? It would totally make sense to lots of people out there who use FeCl to etch PCBs.
I was reading a paper on the properties of iron and it mentioned making green vitriol but reacting iron with concentrated sulfuric acid.
I have attempted this a couple of times using nails and 98% sulfuric acid (tech grade) and I instantly get a pure white precipitate! It has been suggested to use a dilution of about 60/40 di water to sulfuric acid. I have tried that and the same thing happens. it appears to be an insoluble pure white granular perhaps crystalline precipitate.
I have boiled this solution as well, but it does not alter this reaction.
Does any of this make any sense? The nails I use are simple iron nails that I have used for iron II, and III chloride reactions without problem.
I knew it!
Alchemy is real!
well, most PCBs have a solder-resist mask that is also a good etch-resist. The gold plating is also on top of the copper, which means it acts like a protective layer, preventing the copper from being dissolved. All in all, there are better ways.
Thanks, NurdRage. This is extremely useful to me. Can steel wire such as safety wire be used?
Use a protective layer, like tape, for the pattern desired. The Cu takes the Cl atoms from the Fe.
This video was awesome. It seems like something I could do (carefully) at home. Not really sure where I'd source the acid and the peroxide, let alone at the right concentration, but if I wanted to I could work it out. So yeah, more home chemistry plz.
Hardware aisle, 37% hcl for etching concrete or cleaning bricks. Peroxide from pharmacy or supermarket. For anyone 10yrs later
I have access to pure oxygen, could I just pump pure oxygen for the oxidizer? and if so is there any adverse effects/ or things to watch out for?
And how much is concentrated Ferric Chloride made by this process?
I watched somewhere a video tutorial to recycle Ferric Chloride. 1- Add IRON (nails, Junk Iron bars, etc) to the solution... after sometime, Iron dissolves and copper is removed from the solution e it bonds to the iron bars (remove it from the solution). 2- Filter the solution 3- Add H202 (droping slowly - Hydrogen Peroxide 3% or more than this for a Higher concentration etchant - ) Have you tried something like this ?
What will happen if I use a 30% Hydrogen Peroxide instead of 3%. Will it take less peroxide to oxidize it completely, thus increasing the yield?
I have 34° baumé hydrochloric acid, what is the percentage of it??? With the temperature =25°C.
I very much like that you covered this topic! I was wondering is there a way to reuse ferric chloride after you have etched a lot of copper? I have some leftover ferric chloride from my lab that was used to etch quite a bit of copper and doesn't seem to work anymore. If I can't reuse it then is it possible to dispose of it safely?
I have read that it is not possible to make anhydrous FeCl3 through evaporation but the hexahydrate. On Wikipedia it shows the hexahydrate as a yellow powder but I keep ending up with very dark crystals. Is there impurities causing this perhaps? I also wonder if the heat is causing it to decompose or react with the h2o in solution to create a different chemical. I am just a diy guy but trying to expand my chemistry knowledge as much as possible.
Thank you so much!!! I needed this to etch my Damascus steel!
Did you get desirable results ?
@@Swaminarayan70 well, that was 8 years ago
Nice to see how it is done, but I`d rather continue to buy the powder for ferric chloride in a electronics components store (it is pretty cheap too).
I have, however, a question: will that work if the nails are rusty?
What will happen if I put iron in solotion of iron III chloride.Will iron react or it will reduce iron III chloride to iron II chloride
I need ferric nitrate. Should I follow the same ratios and step with nitric acid? Or should I increase the amount of H2O?
Geez!!! Fantastic what One can do with some good chemical knowledge! Thanks!
Hey! I know that this may be a stupid question! but how do you know when the ferric acid have been totally saturated and is time to replace! and maybe more important! is there a way to get the copper out and recycle the acid again? because I have been only using muriatic acid mix with Hydrogen Peroxide! but it saturates very fast and take for ever to do the job!
Thanks
thank you! this should save me from dealing with the local radio shack
Huh. I was thinking last night that I need a source of ferric chloride for some steel etching...
Nice timing, sir.
Thank you so much I was looking for this . I have extended essay on chemistry and I couldn’t get a pre made solution and had to synthesize the ferric chloride from the solid state which was killing me because I had no idea what I was doing thanks for this . And do you mind telling me the concentration of the final product
I work at a company that makes circuit boards, I work in the lab with chemicals and don't work with the circuit boards at all. I see large tanks with solutions of copper, nickel, tin, gold, and maybe another. So I don't work with iron at all. Know if this means we work with a different type of circuit board? Or maybe the circuit board is treated with an iron solution before I ever see them?
Hey Nurdrage, would I be correct in stating that drying the final solution to crystals will yield the hexahydrate form of ferric chloride?
@sammy3212321 well, modern US pennies aren't made of mostly copper anymore: they're made of zinc and plated with a few thousandths of an inch of copper on the outside. But if you have an old penny (pre-1980 or so IIRC) then it will dissolve If you have enough ferric chloride.
You actually are right however, unless the hematite is powdered it's much to slow of a reaction.
thanks for de-mistifying things we use.
Recently I made a solution of (I think) ferric cloride using a couple of iron electrodes and a usb cable, that I think have a potential of 5V. The solution was a table salt sature one, with some crystals on the bottom of the glass, and the electrodes were touching them. I'm sure that some clorine was produced, but after a couple of minutes the solution became of the same color of the ferric cloride. If it was actually ferric cloride, it would be more simple to produce, wouldn't it?
i tried to boil my ferric chloride solution down to get crystals and after a little while the solution turned an opaque reddish orange color is that because there is ferric chloride crystals present. can some one enlighten me
Most sanitation plants will use something like sodium borohydride to precipitate out the heavy metals. But in some cases it is stored in an effort to recycle, some one may us CuCl as a feed stock.
Won't the Fe(3+) ions catalyse the decomposition of H2O2 (to H2O and O2), therefore requiring you to use more H2O2 than mathematically necessary? Or is the oxygen made that way directly consumed by remaining Fe(2+)?
Why do you add H202 to the acid/iron solution? Why not the acid/iron to the H202, i.e. do what you oughta, add acid to water?
this man is the jesus of chemistry.
Excellent demo NurdRage! You need to show it to indeeditdoes , so he can extract more of the copper before he throw away the circuit boards. :-D
Love your videos, they help time to time in my chemistry exams ^^