So, to address a common comment I've been seeing on this video lately, I should make clear. As I state in the video at 6:30, I am not saying that Scar or Jaffar are TEXTUALLY gay within the films themselves. For example, as some folks point out, Scar seems to have interest in some female lions for example. However, Scar and Jaffar were coded with stereotypes of gay people to highlight their villiany, something that comes of the Hays Code of the 1960s where characters were coded as gay, but had to be villain's due to Hollywood censorship. So after the Hays Code went away, the streotypes of gay people as well as those sterotypes highlight a character as villian, stuck around, conciously or more often unconciously in Hollywood writing. This is not me saying that I approve of the stereotype of gay men as always flamboyant or effeminent, as I don't (though obviously it's 100% ok if a gay man is those things), but just that these streotypes were used to highlight characters as villians, as they were in the case of Scar and Jaffar (again, not saying that Scar or Jaffar were officially gay within the film either). While I touch upon all this in the video, I just wished to reiterate it here as I keep seeing this comment. If you wish to learn more about the history of queer coding, here is brief article on it. roganshannon.com/2018/05/15/queer-coding-and-queerbaiting/
I know not a villain, but the gays definitely won for The Owl House! It's an animated series with a canonically bisexual lead character! (And another confirmed lesbian by the creator, Dana Terrace)
So you're saying that these "steriotypical gay traits" are not possible to be held by people not gay? Also, the source is not Disney or anyone that had any sort of time spent in making the movies. Further more, flamboyant characters that also happen to be royality and very full of themselves? Never seen that before.
@@zaferoph Nop, she never said that! She just didn't specify it. She's trying to explain how all of this is a thing of the time... And in the end, we are just sad there's not much representation of the lgbtq community around, and knowing about its history in time and how maybe the creators WANTED to make characters gay but couldn't is very interesting and sad! I think the point was to just understand that, and she used examples... But yes, people can be straight and act like that...It's just a theory involving history
Yeah I have seen a few productions of beauty and the beast where they have lumiore and codsworth act like a married couple. One even had a scene where lumiore falls asleep and murmurs Babette Cogsworth with a big smile on his face.
I actually still wish that Lumiére was voiced by Kenneth Branagh and Cogsworth by Kevin Kline just so I could hear Miguel and Tulio bantering like an old married couple again, only this time they’re French and in a triad with the feather duster.
Prince will never happen because of how Disney markets. In order to be a Disney Prince, you need to he the love interest of a Disney Princess. From a marketing standpoint, they're accessories, like Ken was to Barbie
Its almost like they declawed the villains, in the animated films the villains completely dominated their scenes. In the live action they are just walking'n'talking scenes like they are star wars prequels.
Yeah! Palpatine is far superior than these remake villains. Heck, ANAKIN AS VADER, when he's not talking, is a better villain than all of them combined
I like what they're doing. Don't get me wrong tbh, 90s are superior, but there's something really nice about Raya, Frozen, and Moana in the way they're done. All three movies have antagonists and (ignoring Hans), I think they're pretty well done. I love Elsa, and Te'Ka and Namaari in a special way. It's less "good versus evil" and more that these characters all have internal struggles. It's not as fun as the old movies but I think ultimately it's going to set the kids watching these up with a better mentality. Rather than Us v Them, it's more like: Sometimes people suck, but we can try to trust them and make the world better for all of us rather than just for ourselves.
@@StarrySeal You are kinda right to be honest, not every villain has to be a Good Vs Evil type of villain. Sometimes a effective villain can start good only to have a really bad day that turns their life and the way they see things down into the path of darkness, kinda like Anikin into Darth Vader during Star Wars Prequels or even with the Joker in the Joker movie. My real beef with Disney is that while try do experiment with their villains in recent years, it seems like they tone down the Live Action versions in parts that used to make the animated 90s movies so enjoyable. I just wished that Disney didn't forget what made their classic villains so memorable as it is clear in the Live Action remakes they seem to be afraid of offending people that it makes them unable to really delve into their villain characters more.
Setting aside the moral implications of specifically queer coding villains for a moment... I think it made their characters SO much more intriguing! Even as a cishet girl myself, I always ALWAYS liked the villains wayyyy more than the heroes in movies. The heroes were so incredibly bland and cookie-cutter (with only a few exceptions) whereas the villains were charismatic and interesting and, frankly, just looked cool. Why would I like Basic Muscle Hero Hercules when there was Flamboyant Gothic Flame Hair Hades???
Cis bloke and 100% concur. Hades n scar still my 2 fave villains. And Hades stole the movie to my mind. Timon n pumba stole the lion King for me, Scar was close second. :)
Tbh I always loved the female villains so much... As a straight girl I identified more with their confidence and badassery than the female protagonists except for mulan lmao Edit also it may be that I am a closeted bi and had a crush on them but I haven't figured that out yet, so I just say that I am straight 😅
As a greek mythology fan, I was a little disappointed they westernized Zeus and Hades by making them the typical “God and Devil”, but Disney’s Hades makes up for this. I still can’t believe they made Zeus a genuinely nice guy, like, _WOW._
I should have known I was gay when the most memorable character from Hercules for me was meg. the main character doesn't even make it into the top 3 lol. he lost to Danny Devito.
Once Upon A Time's boringification of Ursula, especially after Ursula had already made an appearance, was when I first clocked the straightening. I am genuinely afraid for live action Hercules and Little Mermaid.
Especially since the Origin of the little Mermaid was a Love Letter from Andersen to His Male Love interest. Writing himself as the little Mermaid (and I Bet they don't even make Ursula to the Warning grandma)
In a deleted scene in the original Scar does try to make Nala his mate though. It's what leads her to run off and eventually stumble upon Simba because he was like "Be my wife or be ejected from the pride."
Yeah, obviously he's not actually gay. They said lefou was the first, so this guy is obviously not the first. Queer-coding is "gay is bad, villian is bad, gay mannerisms fit". None of these villains are actually gay.
It's kinda always been hinted at that Scar wanted Nala as the broadway play from 1997 in the song 'The Madness of King Scar' has a whole attempted rope scene between the two it's kinda freaky but also guiltily my favorite part of the song.
Here in Sweden, Scar was voiced by the late Rikard Wolff, an actor and singer who not only was openly gay, but also looked so much like Scar in those days that you could have thought the character designers had based it on him. Some were very offended by the fact a gay man was in a kids movie (sigh) but to the most part, people seemed to think he was perfect. And for me, who were old enough with a strong enough gaydar to know about Rikard, I've always thought of Scar as him. A beautiful, proud gay man.
I remember when I first watched Frozen as a tiny child, I was confused on whether Elsa and Anna were sisters or friends who were becoming lovers. My friends always come at me for this, and hey man, i was tiny. But I genuinely did not catch the sister queues, and the line was repeatedly wobbling between the two.
Actually, you might've been partially right. Frozen was originally intended to be a re-do of the Ice Queen story, where a (presumably evil) queen kidnaps the male half of a sibling pair and enchants him to be hers (either lover or son depending on the story). The sister goes on a quest to regain her brother and presumably learns some valuable lessons. So yeah, originally, Elsa and Anna weren't meant to be sisters. I don't know why that changed, but it did. I guess maybe they left some of the original scenes unaltered if it didn't matter to the "sister" alteration? Cause yeah, there were definitely moments where I could say hey, yeah they're sisters because it fits in with my sisterly experiences, but then I remember that most of my sisterly experiences occurred with friends, not family...
You know what I wanna see? An original gay character. Not an old character they turned gay, but a new and unique character to show that they truly care and not just throw them into a movie. But as long as China is one of the biggest money gives Disney will not do that.
Well...depends on what you mean. If you ask, why representation is important then I would say it simple, so people could see themselves in the heroes and see that there is nothing wrong with different orientation, like, what does the straightness of a character add to story? Also not much, so this is not a very good point against representation. If you meant the way a villain behaves in the movie and how it has to do with sexuality, then it was answered in the video actually. Such behavior, that is seen as feminine or "theatrical" was more of a stereotypical gay behavior and most of the time, this "gayness" was added to the character, so he would seem more foreign and less sympathetic, because, he "is" gay and is associated with gay behavior. (I hope I could explain that right)
@@panlover8734 i mean... a sexuality does not make you any different, its not like bravery or strenght.. it is not because you are gay or straight or whatever that you are good or bad at something. Only the story matter and the characters accomplishments Or lessons they teach us. this is what i mean and i think people use to take straight simpily because it doesnt add anything and its simple if you want basic, kids sometimes do not even understand the concept of sexuality, watching shows with straight or gay does not make you change who you like or feel and i think its really picky to step on this. if you want to make a sexuality special then make a movie just based of this. because to me if like you telling me because you know how breathing you have to be special.... no you are normal.
@@panlover8734 and i feel more weird and disturbed when people have to fight over kids characters sexual orientations and stuffs like that when they are most of time supposed to be neutral . . . and why when people watch a movie or a show their first thoughts are to know who they sleep with... or who they identify as it is insane to me. I most of the time been told that straight people have this kind of behavious, by judging people or charaters on the their sexuality.... but no its reversed. as long i spent a good time watching a movie..who care?? This all i had to say.
@@ayanokawanegucci7230 well...we don't judge. Like, I still enjoy movies where I do not know anything about the orientation. It is nice when movies have some LGBT characters and for some people it is just important. How do I describe it. It is like, for example people who have some mental illnesses, do movies "need" them and does it add something to the plot/character, and yes and no, it depends on the movie. It can be just a background character but it is representation, so people with this problems arent "erased" and can see that they also are seen as human beings. It is not wrong if you do not care about the orientation of the characters, it's great and of course, the movie is not automatically wonderful if there is an LGBTQ character but it can help some kids to see that this is normal too. Yes, they are "neutral" at the beginning but orientation is not a choice and they can realise that they arent straight. This is way representation is important, so they know, that they are not "wrong".
One character that the Hayes code ruined was Dorothy from TWWoO. In the books she's pretty strong and independent for an 8 yo girl dropped in the middle of what is basically a revolution. In the film she's relying on everyone else for help 90% of the time
I remember watching Lion King and finding it strange, probably because it is so strange to change from such lively and expressionful animation to such a bland live-action. Some scenes can look nice, but all the characters seemed... bland. I think it is more then just de-gaying, but it is also just more realistic but blander cinematography. But I only really watched the live-action Lion King, but similar criticisms have been made by people better then I could for the other movies.
SPOILERS for a movie that has been out for years. ... But I shouldn't be chuckling at Mufasa's deathscene as he twirls around in the sky, with a fall that looks so small. That is a setback of live-action.
Live action scar looks like he's just Simba's sickly uncle who straight up told him a place to practice his roar. I haven't watched the live action and had no idea about scar want to put Simba in danger by telling him about that roar practice place.
yeah... wearing eyeliner and being sarcastic doesn't make you gay. I agree in that they made him to be awfully boring, but it has nothing to do with sexuality. you're only supporting stereotypes and that's pretty sad.
Le fou was a great character even in the animated one. It seemed clear to me, that he was gay and in love with Gaston. Maybe LeFou, (the Fool) was just the first impression as to the futility of that match with Gaston. A surface impression of him. Like Belle (Beauty) is just a superficial idea of who her character was. Gaston also seems two sided the surface being handsome and brutish while inside he was a cowardly beast. Beauty and the Beast's characters are all two sided. The outside and the inside selves and to never judge by that first judgement alone. So maybe rather than overtly gay being the driving idea maybe it was look deeper everyone can surprise you.
I never realised just how flat and bland the live action version were. There's no cinematography, no direction, no one changes the tone of their voice. It's like watching a table read.
I was so excited when my 5 year old watched the animated Lion King and loved it so I figured we'd try the remake... She loves it but I can't get past the fact that the CGI went the uncanny valley route... But it's still more watchable than the abomination that occurred when Disney thought a live action Aladdin was something the world wanted... That remake is the definition of a dumpster fire. Disney has an intro before the animated Aladdin explaining that it has not aged well and has racist undertones that Disney does not stand behind, so why did they think a live action remake, using Halloween store costumes and decor would be better? YIKES...
Ratigan and Basil are 100% exes. Which makes extra sense because the character Basil is based on is likewise blatantly gay: Sherlock Holmes (Straight "intellectuals" *hate* that being pointed out... Because it's totes heteronormative to try and kill oneself when your friend gets engaged....)
I BLINKED when watching the live action beauty and the beast and missed it. my friends were like “aw he was dancing with a guy! cute!” and I was just “what”
Disney actually has a bad habit of "queer coding" all of their villains. I noticed it when I was a kid. Scar, Jafar, Frollo, Hades, etc., all of them have very stereotypical movements and inflections. It's kind of offensive, to be honest, especially since all of them are the _bad guys._ Most of them are also skinny and feminine. The only exception to this is Gaston, who's the epitome of hypermasculinity.
@@alastorbutwithagun Yes, but look at his movements and how he caresses Quasi, how he speaks, how clean he looks, how feminine he is. Any stereotypical queer fearure is employed in villains, even if they're straight, and it's always considered a bad thing. Feminine men = bad guy.
This is tangential, but this video just reminds me how disappointed I was when I found out Oscar Isaac asked LucasFilm to make his character gay, and they told him no. You know how much better Rise of Skywalker would have been with a Poe and Finn romance?
I’m Straight man and think this is funny. They shot themselves in the foot, by doing this, because the 90s Villains are the best villains. We need real villains like that in Hollywood..
I think the Governor had the best cape! I like a gay-coded villain with some bling! I notice they all tend to have class, too, with Ratigan's tuxedo, Scar's British accent (played by a Shakespearean actor), etc.
Disney: We can't have openly gay character in our films let alone coded ones! WE MUST AVOID CONTROVERSY! Also Disney: Yeah film by those concentration camps, it's fine. Also don't dub or sub the movie about Chinese folklore filmed in China with Chinese actors in any of China's languages. The live action remakes are so odd because Disney has stage plays of some to go off of showing it's not the medium's fault yet they refuse to be more expressive even in usage of color despite dumping in so much more money. Maybe The Little Mermaid will be...okay?
well, in the case of the beauty-and-the-beast toon movie I personally dare to say that there is no real proof that lefou was homosexual. in fact, the toon movie gives zero explicite hint about the true relationship between lefou and gaston. they may be brothers or cousins. or, in case there is no kinship between them at all, it might be a case of stockholm syndrome. or lefou is just dimwit (as his name already implies). yes, I even dare to go even further and claim that disney made a big mistake by "gayifying" lefou just to appease the gay and lesbian audiences. it ruined lefou's character portrait by depicting him in the live action movie as something he never was.
I think part of the reason i think the Hay's code works in the favour of villans is the crossover of how the code represents "camp" or "queer" with traits such as hedonism, lascivious and narcisim is something anyone can identify with as potentially villanous and when coupled with sociopathy is pretty much spelled out and makes for a great villain. Shame they feel the answer is to take the personalliy out, and not put any into Non-villanous characters to make an overall richer film. I never thought of Jafar (or any of them at the time) as Gay, but i did eventually wonder about the Genie.
I know a lot of people like to say Elsa is secretly gay---but honestly we don't see her attracted to anyone in the films. Anyone. I kind of think they accidentally wrote an Asexual character.
disney: people are critical of how our only gay rep is the coding of the villains in our movies, so we wanna avoid that in the modern remakes gay people: oh you're gonna put coding/rep in more of the cast than just the villains so that those traits stop appearing to be undesirable, corrupt, or villified? disney: no more gay coding At All!! problem solved. gay people: wait,
I get the idea of gay coding. But IDK, I find it kinda pigeon holes "gayness" into specific behaviors. Like, I always just saw Scar as a Meglomaniac, with very manic behaviors, and I always felt like he didn't pursue relationships because he cared more about power. It especially feels icky how most "gay coded" characters are villains.
I think I heard one criticism about Jafar being straight is because of him being turned on by Jasmine and the deleted scene where Scar tries to seduce Nala. And a criticism I've heard directed towards "queer coding" is Scar is just British, he's "not gay".
You say how original scar had Little to no interest in the female lions and it makes me think about how in lion king 2 scars heir was literally adopted. Sounds accurate. He literally only cared about having the lionesses hunt for him
In the original Kipling book, Kaa the piton was female, and not a villan, but one of the hero helper. But probably for old uncle Disney the snake could not be good!
I’ll never be not mad that they made Scar straight😩 he was my fav character as a kid and I even had a stuffed animal of him that I took everywhere with me! He was my fav gay icon and I’m still mad about it
Jafar spent the entire original movie chasing after Jasmine... Even dressing her up in a sexy outfit and looking lustfully at her at the end,and also wanting the genie to force her to fall in love with him...
There is a very basic root point: There are too few chances anywhere to see non-straight characters and situations, to work out things that matter for not-straight people, whether it's education / information or fiction and representation. Basically, I can rarely get to see non-straight characters being non-straight, showing affection, having relationships, or the ordinary real stuff of life. As an adult, there isn't enough out there available in a wide enough variety, and it tens to focus on sex and often on tragedies. Teens and kids get even less chances to see non-straight portrayals because of adults being homophobic and transphobic and preventing things from being available, out of some idea that they are protecting kids/teens from "inappropriate" content, among other claims. Never mind that it's considered fine to show straight kids having relationships, first love, etc., because that's considered appropriate and "normal". -- Everywhere from adult to young-adult (YA) to kid-friendly shows and books and other media, all too often, both the straight and not-straight audiences do not get enough chances to see anyone being realistically not-straight. -- Or maybe the TLDR version is, we can see plenty of times when the boy gets the girl, but we almost never get to see the boy get the boy or the girl get the girl or any such thing. Even a simple friendship can get people stirred up as to whether it's gay or not. Is it? Maybe. Maybe not. Shouldn't it be OK either way? I think so. But almost never does anyone get to see real not-straight relationships, characters, the true-to-life stuff that matters, how people deal with it. Even the suggestion of seeing anything gets people up in arms, not understanding. It is so deeply frustrating. When will our species grow up enough to let it be normal and OK, whether two people are friends or a couple, sexual or not? Why is it so taboo to show anyone being not-straight? So many not-straight folks are starving for affection and representation and inclusion, and too many straight folks are too phobic and too ignorant to understand why the non-straight folks and not-straight love is not a threat to anyone. It makes me so frustrated, and there is too much to put it into a few words; I'd need more words than I've got, and some of it, there are no words that fit, it's more a big ball of feelings and thoughts. I wish somehow the phobic people could understand and get over their phobias.
Jafar is indeed quite theatrical in his moves, but I wouldn't say he is a gay man. He tries to brainwash the sultan into marrying him and his daughter, and even after he gets the throne and unlimited power, he still keeps Jazmin as a pretty suspicious kind of slave (and he almost fell for a seduction trick). On the other hand, Frolo is most likely a repressed gay man lashing out at the world.
I think Disney probably did it to not offend the LGBT+ community and to not villianze gay people, but ended up offended us and only adding small minor gay characters instead without actually good representation. Thanks Disney...
Hey, since Elsa is in on the discussion, where does Mulan fall in this? Queer-coded? Because if so, she seems to have, in a way, one-upped Elsa by never being seen as villainous to any character in the film, and everyone else in the audience, pretty much. Mulan has "Reflection" to really touch on the emotions that come with trying, successfully or not, to please others by hiding who you really are. In a way, Elsa was both a step forward, and a step backwards. Forwards, since she has come to terms with whom and what she is, and what she's all about, by the end of the film. Backwards, as she is largely seen as the villain until it's revealed that Hans is a total jerkass, who needs to be put out of Arendel and into a jail cell.
Poor Marwan... sure he got the spotlight under Disney branding, but holy hell did they not let him act at all. At least he got a real role in The Old Guard afterwards. Funny that.
Vincient PRICE VOICES Ratigan! HE IS STILL KNOW AS one of the greatest British horror movie actors of all time! The Abominable Dr Phibes and it's sequel are my favorites! and all of his other movies are soo sexy!
Okay I know the beauty and the beast clips were to talk about one of disney's most annoying "First gay character" moments of the many they've had, but I just kept getting distracted by realizing that wow the live action version falls even harder into the original's issue of the beast being so much more interesting and handsome in beast form than in normal generic looking prince form. Like how do you manage to make the main love interest so thoroughly uninteresting to the point of being the most boring thing in the scene. The texturing and vine growth on the walls and pillars in the background are more visually interesting than one of the title characters, how do you even mess that up?
@@august1837 no it's an I speak French and I exist in a world where people say "thanks I hate it" But Lindsay Ellis is pretty great and I don't know why you're misspelling her name.
@@annedavis3340 sorry,I didn’t know that was something commonly said. I heard it for the first time in Lindsay’s video, so that’s what my mind first jumped to. And about the spelling, that was a mistake. I’m blind and never actually saw how her name was written, so I just spelled it phonetically
@@august1837 I'm sorry I made you feel bad. I get up in arms about her cause she's one of the people that Certain People like to hate. "Thanks I hate it" is a fun phrase, I'm glad you met it somewhere at least. :) Hope you're having a nice day, I'm sorry again for how I phrased that.
@@annedavis3340 don’t worry about it! It came off as a little defensive but nothing more than that. I’m not a regular viewer of Lindsay’s videos, but I love the videos I did watch. And yeah, “thanks I hate it” is definitely a phrase I’ll be using from now on. I hope you’re having a good day too
Honestly this was me as a child. I would often ask myself "Why can't the bad guy win for once?". I also loved Scar when I was a kid as well as lots of bad guys in movies. I was a weird kid. I also was strangely in love with Ursula for some reason. So yeah, I blame Disney for my gayness.
Even as a straight guy, I was offended by the way they handled Lefou in beauty and the beast. If he's openly gay, why does his best friend seem to be either oblivious or worse, outright ignoring his friends sexual orientation. Shit, Lefou translates to "the fool."
I agree with you that it was handled poorly in general, but I can attest from personal experience that that specific kind of relationship is heartbreakingly accurate.
The best part about Ratigan is that he’s voiced by the legendary Vincent Price, who was not only bisexual himself, but was a HUGE ally to the LGBTQ+ community after denouncing his previously conservative views and was a proud member of PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) after his daughter came out as a lesbian. Basically, Vincent Price was a bicon!
@@pauladudleycreatfeat Yup! In fact, when his daughter came out to him, he told her about his loving relationships with other men and joked that his previous wives were jealous. His third wife, Coral Browne, was also bisexual and for this very reason the public thought their relationship was a fraud when in fact, it was a loving relationship between two people with very open minded approaches as to what life should look like.
This reminded me of how much I enjoyed that Elsa didn’t hook up with someone at the end of Frozen. I really hope that either she says single, and I can keep my imaginary asexual representation, or she gets a girlfriend, because that would be super cool
Well whatever happens with Elsa, there's still Merida and Moana who are single. There's no way to tell with them. Personally, I consider Mulan asexual, though demiromantic.
@@pyrotheloli7786 I know she's married, but it's entirely possible to be asexual and married, especially if you aren't aromantic (like I said, I consider Mulan demiromantic). Even if she was aromantic, she still might've considered marrying Shang as he likely would've offered more freedom to her than anyone else would. At some point, her family situation might have called for her to marry.
Disney: let's de-gay the villains so we dont get backlash Me: *cackles* You can't get backlash for an lgbt+ villain if most of your characters are lgbt+ anyway! *chugs tea and continues writing*
@@AngelVazquez-vs9xp not just OCs. Harry, Draco, Hermione, etc from The Franchise Which Shall Not Be Named have been every possible combination of LGBT+ in a LOT of fanfic. Obviously it's not just the fanbase of The Franchise Which Shall Not Be Named doing it. But back to TFWSHBN, "Drarry" is a darn good example of non-OC shipping of people in different relationships than perhaps the author considered. :)
in this era of increasingly ''sympathetic'' villains i find it low-key suspish they couldnt be both sympathetic and also gay, or respectable(?) and also gay, ''compelling'' and also GAY?!
the sad part about that beauty and the beast live action is that they had luke evans right there.... a gay man... to help them out. gay men can always play straight men down to a T but its a struggle the other way around huh
"What're ya gonna do?" Don't buy tickets. Seems easy enough. I haven't seen any of these unnecessary (and quite flat/bland from the look of the clips) remakes.
Yep. The only remake I’ve seen was the first Snowhite (the one with Kristen Stewart and Chris Hemsworth) and it was pretty ok, but then I noticed how uninteresting and bland the others seemed and I was like... nope, only originals from now on.
@Ty The Great Lol, Disney's stocks have been declining for years and they're hurting for money. Their Disneyland is closed because of the pandemic and attendees have also been declining for years. They tried to rake in the cash with that useless Mulan remake by pandering to China, but ended up losing almost $200 million. People are cancelling their Disney Plus left and right because they're realising it's trash. People are waking up. Keep wasting your money, though. You're exactly the type of person they're targeting.
Funny that you mention Kaa from The Jungle Book because I grew up with the 1967 Soviet movie adaptation and in it I swear Kaa was an actual positive example of queer coding. He lives alone, has effeminate mannerisms, the other animals dislike him and insult him for reasons that were never quite specified, and there was even a scene where his skin gets wet and becomes rainbow-colored. Except he's portrayed as a positive character. Once Mowgli gets to know him, he discovers that all the stereotypes aren't true, and Kaa becomes one of Mowgli's caretakers along with Baloo and Bagheera (which I think is how it was in the original book before it was changed for the Disney movie, likely for the reasons you mentioned). I never actually thought about it this way until now.
I dont know anything abt Josh Gad but LaFou or however you spell that has such "a straight actor tries to play a comedic gay man" energy I wanted to walk out of the theater and I promised myself not to watch any other disney live action remake Call me a snowflake but being made fun of doesnt feel good even if the bully calls it representation
I thought it was an attempt to portray gay guy who doesn't act stereotypically gay but I forgot that it was Disney. Maybe that's giving them too much credit but idk
Beauty in the Beast Live action was just complete garbage. You have a feminist lead female character who gives up her passion (teaching and inventing) to go marry a prince so she can dance happily ever after or whatever and a buffoonish caricature of gay character who's literally called "the idiot" lol Don't forget about story arcs that doesn't go anywhere. I could've forgiven all of this, if the songs turned out to be half-decent. And they chose someone with 0 singing experience. This movie should have never happened.
@Ty The Great Not really. Animation's Belle wasn't interested in inventing anything for anyone (that was her father's dream) and she also didn't care about teaching young girls to read. She just wanted to read her fantasy books and dreamed about going on an adventure. The townsfolk also weren't aggressively antagonistic towards Belle. They just thought that Belle and her father were couple of weird, eccentric people who didn't fit in with the rest of the society. There was no conflict, so there isn't anything to resolve. On the other hand, Live action Belle started with a "women can do anything but society oppresses us" feminist agenda. Nothing wrong with this, but if you want this to be meaningful, the story's gotta go somewhere with it. The minute she got to the Beast's castle, she forgets all about her passion for invention or teaching. In fact, it's never mentioned again for the rest of the movie. Her laundry machine would've been perfect for the enchanted people who no longer have hands/fingers to wash the laundry. They could've dedicated maybe like 5 minutes in the story to show how the castle-folks accept Belle and her talents. Instead, they chose to waste time on mommy issues which so random and completely unnecessary. What was the point of us finding out that Belle's mom died of an illness? Or that she chose to die alone so Belle and her dad can be safe?? It doesn't even add any layer to Belle's character. Like HOW does that tie into the story at all? Animation from what I remember did not have questionable moments like this. As for LaFou, I guess I'll give you that. But honestly I never thought he was gay. But then I never thought any of the villains were queer either so maybe I'm just bad at spotting queer characters. (It's not that I thought they were all straight/cis gender but more so that I never cared to question them.) IMO animation Lafou's sexuality is still ambiguous but then there's really no denying that Live action Lafou is gay. Sorry for the rant. There are few movies that I hate with passion and this was one of them.
It's important to highlight that Scar AND Jafar were animated by Andreas Deja, a gay man. I think his silence and distance from these trash remakes compared to many other Disney Alum speaks volumes. This is erasure. I am still SALTY live action Ursula was such a lazy casting. Drag is so much more mainstream thanks to DragRace etc that it's inexcusable and offensive to her majesty, Divine who directly inspired her.
@@varejola4877 Drag looks like a caricature of the worst female stereotypes to me, not a celebration. im admittedly not too familiar with drag, and honestly it doesnt bother me but based on what ive seen, thats what it looks like. Genuine question, how is drag a celebration?
@@meepmoop2308 That’s literally the point. You’re supposed to be a walking colorful exaggerated stereotype. Y’all know nothing about drag culture, and it shows.
Let's just assume any remake Disney is gonna do, they WILL make their Villians boring. That's why I'm partly scared for the remake of The Little Mermaid. I dont want my Ursula be boring.
So, to address a common comment I've been seeing on this video lately, I should make clear. As I state in the video at 6:30, I am not saying that Scar or Jaffar are TEXTUALLY gay within the films themselves. For example, as some folks point out, Scar seems to have interest in some female lions for example. However, Scar and Jaffar were coded with stereotypes of gay people to highlight their villiany, something that comes of the Hays Code of the 1960s where characters were coded as gay, but had to be villain's due to Hollywood censorship. So after the Hays Code went away, the streotypes of gay people as well as those sterotypes highlight a character as villian, stuck around, conciously or more often unconciously in Hollywood writing. This is not me saying that I approve of the stereotype of gay men as always flamboyant or effeminent, as I don't (though obviously it's 100% ok if a gay man is those things), but just that these streotypes were used to highlight characters as villians, as they were in the case of Scar and Jaffar (again, not saying that Scar or Jaffar were officially gay within the film either). While I touch upon all this in the video, I just wished to reiterate it here as I keep seeing this comment. If you wish to learn more about the history of queer coding, here is brief article on it. roganshannon.com/2018/05/15/queer-coding-and-queerbaiting/
I know not a villain, but the gays definitely won for The Owl House! It's an animated series with a canonically bisexual lead character! (And another confirmed lesbian by the creator, Dana Terrace)
did they even watch the video 💀 that was the whole point
It's Jafar, not Jaffar
So you're saying that these "steriotypical gay traits" are not possible to be held by people not gay? Also, the source is not Disney or anyone that had any sort of time spent in making the movies.
Further more, flamboyant characters that also happen to be royality and very full of themselves? Never seen that before.
@@zaferoph Nop, she never said that! She just didn't specify it. She's trying to explain how all of this is a thing of the time...
And in the end, we are just sad there's not much representation of the lgbtq community around, and knowing about its history in time and how maybe the creators WANTED to make characters gay but couldn't is very interesting and sad!
I think the point was to just understand that, and she used examples...
But yes, people can be straight and act like that...It's just a theory involving history
"You know how much Disney wants to avoid controversy!"
*laughs in mulan 2020*
That was basically running full sprint _into_ a brick wall of controversy...
@@balanc-joy9187 It's too late to abort, Disney is distracted by money from China.
*laughs In lightyear*
Directed By: Robert B. Weide
Executive Producer: Larry David, Jeff Garlin, Gavin Polone
Co-Executive Producer: Robert B. Weide
Why always villains. Especially in Beauty and the Beast remake, it'd have been so simple to make that candle and clock domestics gay AF
Candle is extra straight tho lmao
Yeah I have seen a few productions of beauty and the beast where they have lumiore and codsworth act like a married couple. One even had a scene where lumiore falls asleep and murmurs Babette Cogsworth with a big smile on his face.
misread that and OH GOD
@@pyrotheloli7786 that Candle couldnt have been that straight he was French ;)
I actually still wish that Lumiére was voiced by Kenneth Branagh and Cogsworth by Kevin Kline just so I could hear Miguel and Tulio bantering like an old married couple again, only this time they’re French and in a triad with the feather duster.
If they can put it in a Disney Channel show, they can put it in a movie. We need a gay Disney prince or princess. Actually, why not both?
YEEEEEEEAH!!!!!!
Like a non-binary royal?
Prince will never happen because of how Disney markets.
In order to be a Disney Prince, you need to he the love interest of a Disney Princess. From a marketing standpoint, they're accessories, like Ken was to Barbie
yes! when will we get the duke in distress or the gay princess who needs to be saved by the other gay princess
Because...... China.....
Its almost like they declawed the villains, in the animated films the villains completely dominated their scenes. In the live action they are just walking'n'talking scenes like they are star wars prequels.
Hey, that's not fair at all! The characterization in Episodes I-III are FAR superior to these Disney remakes!
Yeah! Palpatine is far superior than these remake villains. Heck, ANAKIN AS VADER, when he's not talking, is a better villain than all of them combined
just change star wars prequels to star wars sequels and then i’ll fully agree with you lol
Oh come on, don't do the prequels like that. They're great and Palpatine just dominates every scene he's in.
Star Wars SEQUELS
Disney of the 60s and the 90s did their villains really well.
Sadly the current Disney villains boring and have no eccentric character at all
i kinda agree, their villain game has been.. sad, but like.. *gestures to moana*
I like what they're doing. Don't get me wrong tbh, 90s are superior, but there's something really nice about Raya, Frozen, and Moana in the way they're done. All three movies have antagonists and (ignoring Hans), I think they're pretty well done. I love Elsa, and Te'Ka and Namaari in a special way. It's less "good versus evil" and more that these characters all have internal struggles. It's not as fun as the old movies but I think ultimately it's going to set the kids watching these up with a better mentality. Rather than Us v Them, it's more like: Sometimes people suck, but we can try to trust them and make the world better for all of us rather than just for ourselves.
@@StarrySeal You are kinda right to be honest, not every villain has to be a Good Vs Evil type of villain.
Sometimes a effective villain can start good only to have a really bad day that turns their life and the way they see things down into the path of darkness, kinda like Anikin into Darth Vader during Star Wars Prequels or even with the Joker in the Joker movie.
My real beef with Disney is that while try do experiment with their villains in recent years, it seems like they tone down the Live Action versions in parts that used to make the animated 90s movies so enjoyable.
I just wished that Disney didn't forget what made their classic villains so memorable as it is clear in the Live Action remakes they seem to be afraid of offending people that it makes them unable to really delve into their villain characters more.
Setting aside the moral implications of specifically queer coding villains for a moment... I think it made their characters SO much more intriguing! Even as a cishet girl myself, I always ALWAYS liked the villains wayyyy more than the heroes in movies. The heroes were so incredibly bland and cookie-cutter (with only a few exceptions) whereas the villains were charismatic and interesting and, frankly, just looked cool. Why would I like Basic Muscle Hero Hercules when there was Flamboyant Gothic Flame Hair Hades???
Cis bloke and 100% concur. Hades n scar still my 2 fave villains. And Hades stole the movie to my mind. Timon n pumba stole the lion King for me, Scar was close second. :)
Tbh I always loved the female villains so much... As a straight girl I identified more with their confidence and badassery than the female protagonists except for mulan lmao
Edit also it may be that I am a closeted bi and had a crush on them but I haven't figured that out yet, so I just say that I am straight 😅
As a greek mythology fan, I was a little disappointed they westernized Zeus and Hades by making them the typical “God and Devil”, but Disney’s Hades makes up for this. I still can’t believe they made Zeus a genuinely nice guy, like, _WOW._
I should have known I was gay when the most memorable character from Hercules for me was meg. the main character doesn't even make it into the top 3 lol. he lost to Danny Devito.
Hades is a complete diva
Once Upon A Time's boringification of Ursula, especially after Ursula had already made an appearance, was when I first clocked the straightening. I am genuinely afraid for live action Hercules and Little Mermaid.
Especially since the Origin of the little Mermaid was a Love Letter from Andersen to His Male Love interest. Writing himself as the little Mermaid (and I Bet they don't even make Ursula to the Warning grandma)
For all it's faults you gotta give it credit for confusing the hell out of anyone who doesn't know the plot
In a deleted scene in the original Scar does try to make Nala his mate though. It's what leads her to run off and eventually stumble upon Simba because he was like "Be my wife or be ejected from the pride."
Yeah, obviously he's not actually gay. They said lefou was the first, so this guy is obviously not the first. Queer-coding is "gay is bad, villian is bad, gay mannerisms fit". None of these villains are actually gay.
Eee the age gap, and the fact that most lions are related to each other in real-world prides, when personified, makes that hella creepy.
@@r.j.penfold The way he _says_ it in the deleted scene already makes my stomach flip-flop...
It's kinda always been hinted at that Scar wanted Nala as the broadway play from 1997 in the song 'The Madness of King Scar' has a whole attempted rope scene between the two it's kinda freaky but also guiltily my favorite part of the song.
Gaston is the gayest character of live action movie of Beauty and the Beast and its only because of Luke Evans
Luke Evans is valid oml
Which is kinda funny, as I'd pin him as the most straight coded classic Disney villain.
@@reisatee5504 Gaston is like... The Chaddest Disney character.
Here in Sweden, Scar was voiced by the late Rikard Wolff, an actor and singer who not only was openly gay, but also looked so much like Scar in those days that you could have thought the character designers had based it on him.
Some were very offended by the fact a gay man was in a kids movie (sigh) but to the most part, people seemed to think he was perfect.
And for me, who were old enough with a strong enough gaydar to know about Rikard, I've always thought of Scar as him. A beautiful, proud gay man.
"I already have my Mulan tickets pre-ordered"
Oh dear, how'd that go?
I remember when I first watched Frozen as a tiny child, I was confused on whether Elsa and Anna were sisters or friends who were becoming lovers.
My friends always come at me for this, and hey man, i was tiny. But I genuinely did not catch the sister queues, and the line was repeatedly wobbling between the two.
Them being gay would have been so much better lmao, but sisterly love is nice too. I just hope they make Elsa gay
Actually, you might've been partially right. Frozen was originally intended to be a re-do of the Ice Queen story, where a (presumably evil) queen kidnaps the male half of a sibling pair and enchants him to be hers (either lover or son depending on the story). The sister goes on a quest to regain her brother and presumably learns some valuable lessons.
So yeah, originally, Elsa and Anna weren't meant to be sisters. I don't know why that changed, but it did. I guess maybe they left some of the original scenes unaltered if it didn't matter to the "sister" alteration? Cause yeah, there were definitely moments where I could say hey, yeah they're sisters because it fits in with my sisterly experiences, but then I remember that most of my sisterly experiences occurred with friends, not family...
@@draguta8995 Oh dang. The more you know. Thanks for telling me this :)
You know what I wanna see? An original gay character. Not an old character they turned gay, but a new and unique character to show that they truly care and not just throw them into a movie.
But as long as China is one of the biggest money gives Disney will not do that.
Luz Noceda and Amity Blight from The Owl House.
@@redd3797 is „The Owl house“ a series?
Jessie: *talks about sexual perversion in Hollywood and starts naming off things*
TH-cam: Heres that hip swaying AFK Arens ad
Ahh, the hope we all had that Mulan wouldn't be a trashfire
i mean... a sexuality is not a personality so.. how is that important to a movie?
Well...depends on what you mean. If you ask, why representation is important then I would say it simple, so people could see themselves in the heroes and see that there is nothing wrong with different orientation, like, what does the straightness of a character add to story? Also not much, so this is not a very good point against representation.
If you meant the way a villain behaves in the movie and how it has to do with sexuality, then it was answered in the video actually. Such behavior, that is seen as feminine or "theatrical" was more of a stereotypical gay behavior and most of the time, this "gayness" was added to the character, so he would seem more foreign and less sympathetic, because, he "is" gay and is associated with gay behavior. (I hope I could explain that right)
@@panlover8734 i mean... a sexuality does not make you any different, its not like bravery or strenght.. it is not because you are gay or straight or whatever that you are good or bad at something. Only the story matter and the characters accomplishments Or lessons they teach us. this is what i mean
and i think people use to take straight simpily because it doesnt add anything and its simple if you want basic, kids sometimes do not even understand the concept of sexuality, watching shows with straight or gay does not make you change who you like or feel and i think its really picky to step on this.
if you want to make a sexuality special then make a movie just based of this.
because to me if like you telling me because you know how breathing you have to be special.... no you are normal.
@@panlover8734 and i feel more weird and disturbed when people have to fight over kids characters sexual orientations and stuffs like that when they are most of time supposed to be neutral . . . and why when people watch a movie or a show their first thoughts are to know who they sleep with... or who they identify as it is insane to me.
I most of the time been told that straight people have this kind of behavious, by judging people or charaters on the their sexuality.... but no its reversed.
as long i spent a good time watching a movie..who care??
This all i had to say.
@@ayanokawanegucci7230 well...we don't judge. Like, I still enjoy movies where I do not know anything about the orientation. It is nice when movies have some LGBT characters and for some people it is just important. How do I describe it. It is like, for example people who have some mental illnesses, do movies "need" them and does it add something to the plot/character, and yes and no, it depends on the movie. It can be just a background character but it is representation, so people with this problems arent "erased" and can see that they also are seen as human beings.
It is not wrong if you do not care about the orientation of the characters, it's great and of course, the movie is not automatically wonderful if there is an LGBTQ character but it can help some kids to see that this is normal too. Yes, they are "neutral" at the beginning but orientation is not a choice and they can realise that they arent straight. This is way representation is important, so they know, that they are not "wrong".
One character that the Hayes code ruined was Dorothy from TWWoO. In the books she's pretty strong and independent for an 8 yo girl dropped in the middle of what is basically a revolution. In the film she's relying on everyone else for help 90% of the time
What does that have to do with being gay though?
@@mynameisreallycool1 nothing. But u have to admit that they not only ruined Dorothy but poor Judy Garland as well
The return of ‘See how I glitter’!! Iconic line for all Lindsay fans 💜
😂
Disney, please stop these remakes. Stop it. MAKE MORE 2D ANIMATED FILMS IF YOURE GOING TO JUST THROW RESOURCES AND MONEY AROUND LIKE THAT
I remember watching Lion King and finding it strange, probably because it is so strange to change from such lively and expressionful animation to such a bland live-action. Some scenes can look nice, but all the characters seemed... bland.
I think it is more then just de-gaying, but it is also just more realistic but blander cinematography. But I only really watched the live-action Lion King, but similar criticisms have been made by people better then I could for the other movies.
SPOILERS for a movie that has been out for years.
...
But I shouldn't be chuckling at Mufasa's deathscene as he twirls around in the sky, with a fall that looks so small.
That is a setback of live-action.
Live action scar looks like he's just Simba's sickly uncle who straight up told him a place to practice his roar. I haven't watched the live action and had no idea about scar want to put Simba in danger by telling him about that roar practice place.
Scar was gay af
Yet we're all ignoring pumba and timone being Simbas adoptive hippie dads
I would hazard a guess that you've seen the documentary "The Celluloid Closet". (And don't get me started on ScarJo, please.)
I have. And yeah, ScarJo... is certainly something!
yeah... wearing eyeliner and being sarcastic doesn't make you gay. I agree in that they made him to be awfully boring, but it has nothing to do with sexuality. you're only supporting stereotypes and that's pretty sad.
THIS
I like my villains (and anti-heroes, i.e. Garak) kind of camp. It seems like camp fell out of fashion after the 90s and early 00s?
I miss camp, too. Oddly, it was a way of showcasing gay characters while degrading them.
Batak was supposed to be gay, but Berman changed that. There is scene where Garak is trying to seduce Bashir I don't think they still show that now.
Le fou was a great character even in the animated one. It seemed clear to me, that he was gay and in love with Gaston. Maybe LeFou, (the Fool) was just the first impression as to the futility of that match with Gaston. A surface impression of him. Like Belle (Beauty) is just a superficial idea of who her character was. Gaston also seems two sided the surface being handsome and brutish while inside he was a cowardly beast. Beauty and the Beast's characters are all two sided. The outside and the inside selves and to never judge by that first judgement alone. So maybe rather than overtly gay being the driving idea maybe it was look deeper everyone can surprise you.
I never realised just how flat and bland the live action version were.
There's no cinematography, no direction, no one changes the tone of their voice.
It's like watching a table read.
I was so excited when my 5 year old watched the animated Lion King and loved it so I figured we'd try the remake... She loves it but I can't get past the fact that the CGI went the uncanny valley route...
But it's still more watchable than the abomination that occurred when Disney thought a live action Aladdin was something the world wanted... That remake is the definition of a dumpster fire. Disney has an intro before the animated Aladdin explaining that it has not aged well and has racist undertones that Disney does not stand behind, so why did they think a live action remake, using Halloween store costumes and decor would be better? YIKES...
"I've already got my Mulan tickets preordered"
Old video, I know, but _I'm so sorry_
Ratigan and Basil are 100% exes.
Which makes extra sense because the character Basil is based on is likewise blatantly gay: Sherlock Holmes
(Straight "intellectuals" *hate* that being pointed out... Because it's totes heteronormative to try and kill oneself when your friend gets engaged....)
Pretty sure that was only in the recent movies, not the original books .
I BLINKED when watching the live action beauty and the beast and missed it. my friends were like “aw he was dancing with a guy! cute!” and I was just “what”
Disney actually has a bad habit of "queer coding" all of their villains. I noticed it when I was a kid. Scar, Jafar, Frollo, Hades, etc., all of them have very stereotypical movements and inflections. It's kind of offensive, to be honest, especially since all of them are the _bad guys._ Most of them are also skinny and feminine. The only exception to this is Gaston, who's the epitome of hypermasculinity.
isn't the entire point of notre dam that frollo is chasing a woman?
@@alastorbutwithagun
Yes, but look at his movements and how he caresses Quasi, how he speaks, how clean he looks, how feminine he is. Any stereotypical queer fearure is employed in villains, even if they're straight, and it's always considered a bad thing.
Feminine men = bad guy.
This is tangential, but this video just reminds me how disappointed I was when I found out Oscar Isaac asked LucasFilm to make his character gay, and they told him no.
You know how much better Rise of Skywalker would have been with a Poe and Finn romance?
“Scar was catty (...) lion” hahaha don’t know why but I really like having a lion being called “catty”!
Disney needs to release a version of "The Snow Queen". I want to know how much the meaning of "Let It Go" changes.
Fun fact! In the Swedish version of the Lion King, Scar was voiced by a very famous gay actor/singer.
I’m Straight man and think this is funny. They shot themselves in the foot, by doing this, because the 90s Villains are the best villains.
We need real villains like that in Hollywood..
I think the Governor had the best cape! I like a gay-coded villain with some bling! I notice they all tend to have class, too, with Ratigan's tuxedo, Scar's British accent (played by a Shakespearean actor), etc.
Disney: We can't have openly gay character in our films let alone coded ones! WE MUST AVOID CONTROVERSY!
Also Disney: Yeah film by those concentration camps, it's fine. Also don't dub or sub the movie about Chinese folklore filmed in China with Chinese actors in any of China's languages.
The live action remakes are so odd because Disney has stage plays of some to go off of showing it's not the medium's fault yet they refuse to be more expressive even in usage of color despite dumping in so much more money. Maybe The Little Mermaid will be...okay?
Lumity is cannon and its an lgbtq+ ship in a Disney show.
@@redd3797 Good now let's keep going cause Cartoon Network been did this.
This is why I liked shows like The Owl House
What a shame it's being cancelled
I just think we need a balance. We need gay super heroes. And probably just avoid labels in general.
well, in the case of the beauty-and-the-beast toon movie I personally dare to say that there is no real proof that lefou was homosexual. in fact, the toon movie gives zero explicite hint about the true relationship between lefou and gaston. they may be brothers or cousins. or, in case there is no kinship between them at all, it might be a case of stockholm syndrome. or lefou is just dimwit (as his name already implies). yes, I even dare to go even further and claim that disney made a big mistake by "gayifying" lefou just to appease the gay and lesbian audiences. it ruined lefou's character portrait by depicting him in the live action movie as something he never was.
But that would explain the strange attraction to Disney villains
hope they don't make a Hercules reboot movie. "Straight coded" Hades would be weird. Really weird. Traumatizing evem
I think part of the reason i think the Hay's code works in the favour of villans is the crossover of how the code represents "camp" or "queer" with traits such as hedonism, lascivious and narcisim is something anyone can identify with as potentially villanous and when coupled with sociopathy is pretty much spelled out and makes for a great villain. Shame they feel the answer is to take the personalliy out, and not put any into Non-villanous characters to make an overall richer film. I never thought of Jafar (or any of them at the time) as Gay, but i did eventually wonder about the Genie.
"I already preordered my tickets for Mulan"
God what a travesty of a statement for so many reasons, looking back...
I love James more than Ash in Pokemon
Teak rocket are a better fond family then any of the pokemon protagonist groups.
I wish we had a full spectrum of gay men. Not just the stereo types.
I know a lot of people like to say Elsa is secretly gay---but honestly we don't see her attracted to anyone in the films. Anyone. I kind of think they accidentally wrote an Asexual character.
I always wondered why the live action villains seem so dry and boring like they reading off cue cards
Had to stop at the live action stuff, I still haven't seen the movies! Really wanna watch the rest of this one I do.
Deanna Albert that’s fair. I don’t spoil too much and only show a couple scenes. But I tots get wanting to wait
disney: people are critical of how our only gay rep is the coding of the villains in our movies, so we wanna avoid that in the modern remakes
gay people: oh you're gonna put coding/rep in more of the cast than just the villains so that those traits stop appearing to be undesirable, corrupt, or villified?
disney: no more gay coding At All!! problem solved.
gay people: wait,
"And then you take Pikachu, and you put him to bed!" LORD HAVE MERCY, JESSIE.
They were so desperate to make scar seem straight they even took away his theatre kid pizazz? Absurd.
I get the idea of gay coding. But IDK, I find it kinda pigeon holes "gayness" into specific behaviors. Like, I always just saw Scar as a Meglomaniac, with very manic behaviors, and I always felt like he didn't pursue relationships because he cared more about power. It especially feels icky how most "gay coded" characters are villains.
I think I heard one criticism about Jafar being straight is because of him being turned on by Jasmine and the deleted scene where Scar tries to seduce Nala. And a criticism I've heard directed towards "queer coding" is Scar is just British, he's "not gay".
You say how original scar had Little to no interest in the female lions and it makes me think about how in lion king 2 scars heir was literally adopted. Sounds accurate. He literally only cared about having the lionesses hunt for him
4:41 I'M SORRY WHERE DO YOU PUT THE TOOTH? THERE'S VERY FEW SCENARIOS WHERE TEETH SHOULD BE INVOLVED AAAAHHHHH
I have not seen a single disney live action and I don't plan to now.
In the original Kipling book, Kaa the piton was female, and not a villan, but one of the hero helper. But probably for old uncle Disney the snake could not be good!
I’ll never be not mad that they made Scar straight😩 he was my fav character as a kid and I even had a stuffed animal of him that I took everywhere with me! He was my fav gay icon and I’m still mad about it
Jafar was SUCH a dissapointment..
Jafar spent the entire original movie chasing after Jasmine...
Even dressing her up in a sexy outfit and looking lustfully at her at the end,and also wanting the genie to force her to fall in love with him...
It’s why it’s called coding, they can be coded as gay but can still be straight....
Noo, James Wood voices Hades? I'll never see Hades the same way again 😭😭😭
0:16 It's bad but Disney actually was able to make good looking talking lion. We saw that in Narnia movies
Not Disney but ken and Ryan from Barbie life in the dream house behind the camera were definitely hooking up
There is a very basic root point: There are too few chances anywhere to see non-straight characters and situations, to work out things that matter for not-straight people, whether it's education / information or fiction and representation. Basically, I can rarely get to see non-straight characters being non-straight, showing affection, having relationships, or the ordinary real stuff of life. As an adult, there isn't enough out there available in a wide enough variety, and it tens to focus on sex and often on tragedies. Teens and kids get even less chances to see non-straight portrayals because of adults being homophobic and transphobic and preventing things from being available, out of some idea that they are protecting kids/teens from "inappropriate" content, among other claims. Never mind that it's considered fine to show straight kids having relationships, first love, etc., because that's considered appropriate and "normal". -- Everywhere from adult to young-adult (YA) to kid-friendly shows and books and other media, all too often, both the straight and not-straight audiences do not get enough chances to see anyone being realistically not-straight. -- Or maybe the TLDR version is, we can see plenty of times when the boy gets the girl, but we almost never get to see the boy get the boy or the girl get the girl or any such thing. Even a simple friendship can get people stirred up as to whether it's gay or not. Is it? Maybe. Maybe not. Shouldn't it be OK either way? I think so. But almost never does anyone get to see real not-straight relationships, characters, the true-to-life stuff that matters, how people deal with it. Even the suggestion of seeing anything gets people up in arms, not understanding. It is so deeply frustrating. When will our species grow up enough to let it be normal and OK, whether two people are friends or a couple, sexual or not? Why is it so taboo to show anyone being not-straight? So many not-straight folks are starving for affection and representation and inclusion, and too many straight folks are too phobic and too ignorant to understand why the non-straight folks and not-straight love is not a threat to anyone. It makes me so frustrated, and there is too much to put it into a few words; I'd need more words than I've got, and some of it, there are no words that fit, it's more a big ball of feelings and thoughts. I wish somehow the phobic people could understand and get over their phobias.
Ah...THAT'S WHY I thought Scar was a boring, aggressiv and irritating in the remake... =_=
Scar without scarcasm is just...boring... And straight.
You're not that serious right?
they didnt even make scar's mane black and fur darker? come on
The colours in the live action version are so dull,
Where is my reds, blues and purples?
Jafar is indeed quite theatrical in his moves, but I wouldn't say he is a gay man. He tries to brainwash the sultan into marrying him and his daughter, and even after he gets the throne and unlimited power, he still keeps Jazmin as a pretty suspicious kind of slave (and he almost fell for a seduction trick). On the other hand, Frolo is most likely a repressed gay man lashing out at the world.
I think Disney probably did it to not offend the LGBT+ community and to not villianze gay people, but ended up offended us and only adding small minor gay characters instead without actually good representation.
Thanks Disney...
China?
I always related to the villians when I was older.
I ment younger
Jessie looks like a pumpkin spice latte on a beautiful fall day!! :) . Good job on video and as always thank u.
WCMelle this may be the nicest comment I have ever been given on TH-cam ❤️❤️❤️
Hey, since Elsa is in on the discussion, where does Mulan fall in this? Queer-coded? Because if so, she seems to have, in a way, one-upped Elsa by never being seen as villainous to any character in the film, and everyone else in the audience, pretty much. Mulan has "Reflection" to really touch on the emotions that come with trying, successfully or not, to please others by hiding who you really are. In a way, Elsa was both a step forward, and a step backwards. Forwards, since she has come to terms with whom and what she is, and what she's all about, by the end of the film. Backwards, as she is largely seen as the villain until it's revealed that Hans is a total jerkass, who needs to be put out of Arendel and into a jail cell.
The Great Mouse Detective is my favorite Disney movie, too! Great video.
...I recognise that Ninjago sword.
Being gay isn’t a personality you don’t act a certain way just because your gay
"Mulan tickets preordered" aged like milk
Poor Marwan... sure he got the spotlight under Disney branding, but holy hell did they not let him act at all. At least he got a real role in The Old Guard afterwards. Funny that.
You must have watched a different version of the little mermaid… from what I remember Ursula was the hero who is coldly Murdered.
Vincient PRICE VOICES Ratigan! HE IS STILL KNOW AS one of the greatest British horror movie actors of all time! The Abominable Dr Phibes and it's sequel are my favorites! and all of his other movies are soo sexy!
Okay I know the beauty and the beast clips were to talk about one of disney's most annoying "First gay character" moments of the many they've had, but I just kept getting distracted by realizing that wow the live action version falls even harder into the original's issue of the beast being so much more interesting and handsome in beast form than in normal generic looking prince form. Like how do you manage to make the main love interest so thoroughly uninteresting to the point of being the most boring thing in the scene. The texturing and vine growth on the walls and pillars in the background are more visually interesting than one of the title characters, how do you even mess that up?
"Le Fou" literally means "The Idiot." The first gay character is the idiot. Thanks I hate it
Is that a Linzy Elice reference
@@august1837 no it's an I speak French and I exist in a world where people say "thanks I hate it"
But Lindsay Ellis is pretty great and I don't know why you're misspelling her name.
@@annedavis3340 sorry,I didn’t know that was something commonly said. I heard it for the first time in Lindsay’s video, so that’s what my mind first jumped to. And about the spelling, that was a mistake. I’m blind and never actually saw how her name was written, so I just spelled it phonetically
@@august1837 I'm sorry I made you feel bad. I get up in arms about her cause she's one of the people that Certain People like to hate.
"Thanks I hate it" is a fun phrase, I'm glad you met it somewhere at least. :)
Hope you're having a nice day, I'm sorry again for how I phrased that.
@@annedavis3340 don’t worry about it! It came off as a little defensive but nothing more than that. I’m not a regular viewer of Lindsay’s videos, but I love the videos I did watch. And yeah, “thanks I hate it” is definitely a phrase I’ll be using from now on. I hope you’re having a good day too
Parents in 1999 : "Why do you like the villains so much?"
Me now: Oh....yeah that makes sense
Honestly this was me as a child. I would often ask myself "Why can't the bad guy win for once?". I also loved Scar when I was a kid as well as lots of bad guys in movies. I was a weird kid. I also was strangely in love with Ursula for some reason. So yeah, I blame Disney for my gayness.
@@arizows5516 I also liked Scar when I was little
@@LegoManiac_101 Glad I'm not the only one
i'm not gay but Ace.. i did however always like the villlains.. especially ones like cruella (she is after all still my favorite)
@Asher Copaken definitely
Even as a straight guy, I was offended by the way they handled Lefou in beauty and the beast. If he's openly gay, why does his best friend seem to be either oblivious or worse, outright ignoring his friends sexual orientation. Shit, Lefou translates to "the fool."
I agree with you that it was handled poorly in general, but I can attest from personal experience that that specific kind of relationship is heartbreakingly accurate.
the line is so thin, between calling a character Lefou and making him gay, and straight up calling him la folle
At times to me Le Fou even came across as a little sinister.
Always thought he had a toxic relationship with Gaston he was clearly into him.
Because he *wasn't* openly gay. He was closeted until he joined the good guys.
The best part about Ratigan is that he’s voiced by the legendary Vincent Price, who was not only bisexual himself, but was a HUGE ally to the LGBTQ+ community after denouncing his previously conservative views and was a proud member of PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) after his daughter came out as a lesbian. Basically, Vincent Price was a bicon!
Vincent Price was bi? Cool, i never knew that.
Word
@@pauladudleycreatfeat Yup! In fact, when his daughter came out to him, he told her about his loving relationships with other men and joked that his previous wives were jealous. His third wife, Coral Browne, was also bisexual and for this very reason the public thought their relationship was a fraud when in fact, it was a loving relationship between two people with very open minded approaches as to what life should look like.
@@spiceupyourafterlife that's so awesome
This makes me love Vincent Price even more, a true legend
This reminded me of how much I enjoyed that Elsa didn’t hook up with someone at the end of Frozen. I really hope that either she says single, and I can keep my imaginary asexual representation, or she gets a girlfriend, because that would be super cool
Well whatever happens with Elsa, there's still Merida and Moana who are single. There's no way to tell with them. Personally, I consider Mulan asexual, though demiromantic.
@@robinfa1477 mulan is married lolol
@@pyrotheloli7786 I know she's married, but it's entirely possible to be asexual and married, especially if you aren't aromantic (like I said, I consider Mulan demiromantic). Even if she was aromantic, she still might've considered marrying Shang as he likely would've offered more freedom to her than anyone else would. At some point, her family situation might have called for her to marry.
Elsa is an ace lesbian, spread the word :)
@@NowTheDreamsWontDo it’s 1843 Norway, that’s impossible
What about Timon and Pumbaa, they're the best gay couple ever and they aren't even villains
The first Disney representation of a same-sex couple raising a child, and doing a very good job. Who cares if they were mates or just friends
@Caelyn Morton hm. Nah - grew Up with the German Song.
.... They're just friends.... Why y'all gotta make things sexual. 💀
@@darkestb3rry being gay doesn't mean it's sexual.
@@darkestb3rry cause we crave representation and look for it in the characters we enjoy
"throw some racism in there for funsies" is not a phrase I thought I would ever hear.
So you’re not aware n Hollywood
GOOD CHOICE
XD
Ahh just got to that bit
Disney: let's de-gay the villains so we dont get backlash
Me: *cackles* You can't get backlash for an lgbt+ villain if most of your characters are lgbt+ anyway! *chugs tea and continues writing*
Wait but what makes most characters LGBT in any way? that makes no sense.
@@AngelVazquez-vs9xp they were probably talking about their own characters
@@user-hz5hn7ts1i oh yeah cause artists do that with their OCs
@@AngelVazquez-vs9xp not just OCs. Harry, Draco, Hermione, etc from The Franchise Which Shall Not Be Named have been every possible combination of LGBT+ in a LOT of fanfic.
Obviously it's not just the fanbase of The Franchise Which Shall Not Be Named doing it.
But back to TFWSHBN, "Drarry" is a darn good example of non-OC shipping of people in different relationships than perhaps the author considered. :)
@@AngelVazquez-vs9xp basically have multiple gay characters, such as, gay heroes, gay morally gray characters, gay villains
in this era of increasingly ''sympathetic'' villains i find it low-key suspish they couldnt be both sympathetic and also gay, or respectable(?) and also gay, ''compelling'' and also GAY?!
Elsa? Maybe? She's kind of an antagonist
@@internetgal38 wasnt Elsa meant to be the villain? Until the song let it go, because it was too good for a villain? I forgot-
Probably for the same reason they cut Biggering from the Lorax movie,
Corporate didn't want to take the risk.
@@thorndoll_52She was! Though I wouldn’t call her a villain nor antagonist in the actual movie, just a deeply traumatized individual.
the sad part about that beauty and the beast live action is that they had luke evans right there.... a gay man... to help them out. gay men can always play straight men down to a T but its a struggle the other way around huh
NOT TO MENTION IAN MCKELLEN, THE GAY ICON!!
Us gays have to hide our true selves for the comfort of bigots, so some of us are really good at fakin' it...
@@tessabakker662 that hurts to hear even if it's true. I hope that one day the Earth gets to a place that isn't a necessity.
"What're ya gonna do?"
Don't buy tickets. Seems easy enough. I haven't seen any of these unnecessary (and quite flat/bland from the look of the clips) remakes.
Everytime I'm subjected to clips from the TLK remake, they're just worse and worse 😬
Exactly. Why do people still not understand the concept of voting with your wallet?
Yep. The only remake I’ve seen was the first Snowhite (the one with Kristen Stewart and Chris Hemsworth) and it was pretty ok, but then I noticed how uninteresting and bland the others seemed and I was like... nope, only originals from now on.
Same. Disney only cares about money, so I don't give them my money.
@Ty The Great
Lol, Disney's stocks have been declining for years and they're hurting for money. Their Disneyland is closed because of the pandemic and attendees have also been declining for years. They tried to rake in the cash with that useless Mulan remake by pandering to China, but ended up losing almost $200 million. People are cancelling their Disney Plus left and right because they're realising it's trash. People are waking up. Keep wasting your money, though. You're exactly the type of person they're targeting.
This explains why I, as a gays, loved villains so much.
Fkn same.
Same. I love Jessie, James and Meowth (not team rocket since they are only a fun fraction of team rocket)
Funny that you mention Kaa from The Jungle Book because I grew up with the 1967 Soviet movie adaptation and in it I swear Kaa was an actual positive example of queer coding. He lives alone, has effeminate mannerisms, the other animals dislike him and insult him for reasons that were never quite specified, and there was even a scene where his skin gets wet and becomes rainbow-colored. Except he's portrayed as a positive character. Once Mowgli gets to know him, he discovers that all the stereotypes aren't true, and Kaa becomes one of Mowgli's caretakers along with Baloo and Bagheera (which I think is how it was in the original book before it was changed for the Disney movie, likely for the reasons you mentioned). I never actually thought about it this way until now.
damn i need to see this adaptation, what's the name ?
Yes, in the book, Kaa is one of Mowgli's friends.
In book as well as 80s anime adaptation Kaa is a friend of Mowgli. Believed to be 100 years old and often gives Mowgli advise through his experience
I dont know anything abt Josh Gad but LaFou or however you spell that has such "a straight actor tries to play a comedic gay man" energy I wanted to walk out of the theater and I promised myself not to watch any other disney live action remake
Call me a snowflake but being made fun of doesnt feel good even if the bully calls it representation
I thought it was an attempt to portray gay guy who doesn't act stereotypically gay but I forgot that it was Disney. Maybe that's giving them too much credit but idk
@@Joey-kd8lj Josh Gad is married to a woman though. 🤔
Beauty in the Beast Live action was just complete garbage. You have a feminist lead female character who gives up her passion (teaching and inventing) to go marry a prince so she can dance happily ever after or whatever and a buffoonish caricature of gay character who's literally called "the idiot" lol Don't forget about story arcs that doesn't go anywhere. I could've forgiven all of this, if the songs turned out to be half-decent. And they chose someone with 0 singing experience. This movie should have never happened.
@Ty The Great Uh, which part?
@Ty The Great Not really. Animation's Belle wasn't interested in inventing anything for anyone (that was her father's dream) and she also didn't care about teaching young girls to read. She just wanted to read her fantasy books and dreamed about going on an adventure. The townsfolk also weren't aggressively antagonistic towards Belle. They just thought that Belle and her father were couple of weird, eccentric people who didn't fit in with the rest of the society. There was no conflict, so there isn't anything to resolve.
On the other hand, Live action Belle started with a "women can do anything but society oppresses us" feminist agenda. Nothing wrong with this, but if you want this to be meaningful, the story's gotta go somewhere with it. The minute she got to the Beast's castle, she forgets all about her passion for invention or teaching. In fact, it's never mentioned again for the rest of the movie. Her laundry machine would've been perfect for the enchanted people who no longer have hands/fingers to wash the laundry. They could've dedicated maybe like 5 minutes in the story to show how the castle-folks accept Belle and her talents. Instead, they chose to waste time on mommy issues which so random and completely unnecessary. What was the point of us finding out that Belle's mom died of an illness? Or that she chose to die alone so Belle and her dad can be safe?? It doesn't even add any layer to Belle's character. Like HOW does that tie into the story at all? Animation from what I remember did not have questionable moments like this.
As for LaFou, I guess I'll give you that. But honestly I never thought he was gay. But then I never thought any of the villains were queer either so maybe I'm just bad at spotting queer characters. (It's not that I thought they were all straight/cis gender but more so that I never cared to question them.) IMO animation Lafou's sexuality is still ambiguous but then there's really no denying that Live action Lafou is gay.
Sorry for the rant. There are few movies that I hate with passion and this was one of them.
I feel like the genie got the same treatment as scar. Removed any feminine qualities, and gave them a love interest.
OMG I love Genie's flamboyant and colorful self in the animated film. :-D
It's important to highlight that Scar AND Jafar were animated by Andreas Deja, a gay man. I think his silence and distance from these trash remakes compared to many other Disney Alum speaks volumes. This is erasure. I am still SALTY live action Ursula was such a lazy casting. Drag is so much more mainstream thanks to DragRace etc that it's inexcusable and offensive to her majesty, Divine who directly inspired her.
@@vikingsong2068 lmao wait till they hear about drag kings ... shits about to get real in the terf fandom
@@vikingsong2068 drag is literally a celebration of all things feminine lol. also- i dont think "womanface" is a thing
@@varejola4877 Drag looks like a caricature of the worst female stereotypes to me, not a celebration. im admittedly not too familiar with drag, and honestly it doesnt bother me but based on what ive seen, thats what it looks like. Genuine question, how is drag a celebration?
@@vikingsong2068 Good thing drag queens are men, not trans women...
@@meepmoop2308 That’s literally the point. You’re supposed to be a walking colorful exaggerated stereotype. Y’all know nothing about drag culture, and it shows.
They made Scar boring.
They made Jafar boring.
THEY BETTER NOT LAY A FINGER ON MY BOY HADES!!! 👏👏👏
Let's just assume any remake Disney is gonna do, they WILL make their Villians boring.
That's why I'm partly scared for the remake of The Little Mermaid. I dont want my Ursula be boring.
Boring?
Update…they made Ursula boring 😢