Pressure problems with new Wacom One (2023/GEN2) drawing tablets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2023
- The new Wacom One tablets (2023/GEN2) and the new Wacom One Pen (CP-923) seem to exhibit some problems handling pressure. This video explains what these issues are and how they can be mitigated.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Some errata and clarifications:
At around 6:03 I start discussing and showing samples from the CTC-6110WL. However the blue label on top starting at around 6:10 says "WACOM ONE M CTL-6100WL" so it is showing the wrong model id it is supposed to say "WACOM ONE M CTC-6110WL". The diagrams are still correct though for the model under discussion.
Way back when, Wacom separated the naming of their tablets through a series of lines.
Beginner/consumer-grade tablets were called the Bamboo. Relatively affordable, and excellent for novice artists.
Intermediate/Professional-grade tablets were the Intuos line. These had more bells and whistles like higher pressure sensitivity, DPI, and shortcut keys.
And finally, high-end professional/studio-grade tablets, the Cintiq line. I remember so many artists salivating over the screen tablets. Those were the crème de la crème of digital drawing equipment!
Once they started to phase out the Bamboo line and used Intuos to refer to both consumer and professional grade, it really diluted the value of their brand. And the trend continues to this day with the “One” brand. It’s awful. Really wish they could go back and stop confusing their customers with their nonsensical product names.
I remember when they started calling using "Intuos" for their consumer line. I thought that was a big mistake for the brand :-(
The naming of their products especially the entire "Wacom One" vs "One by Wacom" issue has caused a lot of confusion!
@@thesevenpens I remember writing a similar comment on Wacom’s video a long time ago (shortly after the Intuos refresh in 2017) expressing disappointment over the project names and I actually got a reply from Wacom!
They said something along the lines of appreciating my input and that they would forward it to their marketing team. I guess that never went anywhere. 😓
@@ShadowLinkxMaster Thanks for sharing that! At least it is good they replied! I can only hope they listen a bit more in the future.
imagine in 2030:
User: "Oh! nice, an 80 usd Cintiq display!"
Wacom: "Errrrr no.... That's the cintiq pen tablet! No display"
User: "Uh? I thought the cintiqs were the pen displays?"
Wacom: "No, we rebranded. Our pro line is now all called Cintiq"
User: Okay, give me a cintiq pen tablet. So long it has the pro pen is fine
Wacom: "Ooooh, nononono! If you want a pro pen, you need the cintiq pen tablet pro!!"
User: "Okay! just give me a cheap one!"
Wacom: "You want cintiq pen tablet gen 1 with pen gen 1? Or cintiq pen tablet with pen gen 2 You can also get the Intuos One gen 7 which is the new entry level alongside TWO by wacom, but thats not compatible with pen gen 5 which comes packed with master pen 3 and the cintiq fun and touch 9"
User: "JUST GIVE A FRIGGIN TABLET!! ANY TABLET JESUS CHRIST!!
Wacom: "Sir we are Wacom Coffee Shop, You need to look for our Wacom Tablets branch"
@@mxed1916 LOL! Don't get me started on "Wacom One" vs "One by Wacom" :-) Their naming reminds me of this skit: th-cam.com/video/sYOUFGfK4bU/w-d-xo.html
Great video testing this. And a very concerning problem. Hope they see this and respond, and that a firmware or driver update does the trick to solve it.
Thank you very much for this very detailed information. As a beginner, it was really difficult for me to get specific information about these new drawing tablets (specifically the Wacom One M/S Gen2). After a long time I found the Docs website and this video and I am just amazed because it is exactly what I was looking for.
I'm currently trying to decide between a Wacom One S Gen2 and a Wacom Intuos S. I'm wondering if these problems can still be fixed with a software update so it's still worth getting the tablet in the long run.
The Wacom website also mentions a Bluetooth connection. I have heard that this was somewhat delayed with the Intuos. However, the Docs don't mention anything about the Bluetooth connection.
Gamers nexus of drawing tablet reviews. I'm really interested in the pressure graphs for other drawing displays.
For instance for my xp pen 15.6 pro (in krita), pen pressure is pretty radical. hyper thin lines, blotty in consistent medium lines and heavy lines are just a blow out. I changed the pressure curve from a diagonal line in krita to an s line with a relative big flat in the middle. my lines became much more consistant but lost alot of character.
I'll have to try doing those pressure graphs again. It was a real pain to do though :-) drawing so many lines with such light pressure is really taxing!
Is there any update on this situation? I bought the GEN 2 for the single USBC connectivity and dual barrel button pens but the pressure issue is something i'm not happy about.
Any update on this? Did you try messing with the potentiometer screw or got a newer unit of the pen?
I heard from the professional artists who used to work with old wacom tablets (2k pressure sensitivity) and they haven't felt much differences since they upgraded to 8K.
I've heard that from a number of people also! And I myself feel the same way. The thing that I have noticed is that the pressure range on the Pro Pen 2 is very wide - the max pressure is almost 800gf. And that makes it much easier to control pressure for me. More here: docs.thesevenpens.com/drawtab/guides/core-features/pen-pressure
@@thesevenpens I see. I just want to start learning zbrush amd I've been gathering information from artists zbrush expert about pressure sensitivity on the pen talets since my budget is very limited and I can't afford buying pro pen tablets I have to buy the old ones like one by wacom ctl 672 and it has 2k pressure sensitivity and I had a lots of concerns about that and the issue that it might cause so I thought should I wait until I'll be able to buy pro pen tablets or buy this old wacom and it will be fine for my purpose. still struggling with this .
very informative! i was considering buying the new wacom one.
im looking for a tablet/pen with low IAF and good low pressure handling. currently i have a entry level huion and the high IAF is bothering me. i tried to find information about low IAF tablets/pens but didnt find much except for people pointing at wacom. are all other wacom tablet/pens similar in that regard? the pro pen 2 in the video show very good low pressure handling is it because of low IAF? now i am considering to buy the one by wacom (ctl 672) to see if its better than the huion
This might help: docs.thesevenpens.com/drawtab/guides/core-features/pen-pressure
@thesevenpens, I wanted to ask you something, have you tried the nibs of the new Wacom One pen (CP-923) on the 1st gen pen (CP-913)?
Do they fit perfectly or are different shaped?
Thanks!
I swapped the nibs and each nib worked in the other pen.
@@thesevenpens thank you very much!
Thank you so much for such a detailed review! I just bought a new Wacom One with a Gen2 pencil and was so confused because it didn’t work the same as my previous pencil from the Wacom Intuos, and I couldn’t find clear information about the differences between the pencils. I’m a bit sad because the new tablets look nice in white color, but I can’t draw using the new pen; it doesn’t work nicely
Thanks for the nice comment on the video! I was also so disappointed they released these tablets in this condition. As on pen alternative consider a Samsung S Pen or CP-913 pen. They have a better pressure response than the new CP-923 pen. The only disadvantage is they only have 1 button instead of 2.
Great video!
Thank you!
thank you for this, dont think I will buy the one tablet. My intuos was great but the replacements are so expensive for what you get...
What replacement? You mean the nibs? You could get a protective sheet with a slidier feel to it for your tablet, which will greatly prevent the nib from wearing out. That'll also protect your tablet from scratches, so it's a win-win. You could also get a protective sheet with a paper texture, but I guess that'll still wear out the nibs pretty fast.
@@ticktockbamI meant the replacement devices. Like the wacom one
@@timodeurbroeck9957I was checking the prices for the Wacom screenless tablets today and saw that they have very nice discounts right now. I guess it's because of the holidays. You might wanna check those out. For example, the Intuos Medium Wireless went from 199 to 99. I'm buying that for Christmas.
I was wondering whether i should get either a ctc 6110 or a ctl 672 as a budget replacement for my old drawing tablet since I'm a beginner. I still sort of want the ctc 6110 due to it's bluetooth connectivity, but now I'm not so sure. I guess I'll wait until wacom either fixes this or i find a better third option.
incase you're still wondering I just got a ctl672 , it has the LP190(k?) pen and it sucks, every line is gigantic and there are virtually no transitions from low to hard pressure, no matter how I alter the pen settings in the driver. I worked on an ancient cte-450 until two weeks ago until it broke, tried to replace it but the secondhand one I got also arrived broken so I decided not to waste more money on secondhand ones and get a new, hopefully better model. line transitions were buttersmooth on it compared to the ctl672, it doesn't taper off at all the lines are ugly af, the pen also feels cheap
@jessicaj2990 oh wow, that's odd. I heard alot of peeps saying that the ctl 672 was pretty good.
Guess I'll stick to my old cth 480 until the 6110 gets an update or sumn
i really enjoy the technicalities with drawing tablets! these r very in depth :0 im planning on getting a samsung tab s8 ultra this holiday, would the wacom one gen2 (emr screen tablet) pen work well on it? would you recommend? I currently have the gen 1 pen and it works perfectly, although the new gen 2 pen has two buttons and thats the one thing i need as an artist!
i use the gen 1 pen on my tab s6*
The new Gen 2 pen (cp-923) does work with the tab S8 ultra. However only one of the two buttons will work :-( I couldn't find any way to somehow enable that second button to do anything. And the second thing is of course I still think that the new Gen 2 pen has some pressure problems so it doesn't give as good an experience as the Gen 1 pen (cp-913) or even the Samsung s pen.
@@thesevenpens thank you so much! ill keep using the gen 1 pen :00
Did. you try the Wacom One Gen 2 pen on the Tab S7/8/9?
I have the HP Zbook X2 G4, and it works, but the second pen button is not recognized. Tried to get it recognized, but the Wacom Driver cannot be updated to the most recent, as the Zbook no longer supported (yet the MobileStudio Pro is)
I did try the Gen 2 pen (CP-923) with the Samsung Galaxy Tab S8 Ultra. I found the same thing you did. The pen worked - but I couldn’t do anything useful with the second button.
@@thesevenpens I read (in the Infinite Studio Forum) that the second button is recognized in Android Clip Studio Paint, but I have not confirmed that. The second button is not recognized in Infinite Painter, Clover Paint, ArtRage, Krita or TV Paint on my Tab S7+
@@Figuremakr In CSP and Bamboo Paper, I find that the second button just works as the eraser. When you click this button, the pen will become the eraser untill you lift the pen to the distance it can not be detected. That is different from the main button, you need to keep it pressed when you need to erase something.
I'm pretty disappointed, considering Wacom is such a big company, yet had many problems like the pressure curve on Wacom One CTC-x110WL. Thankfully I still keep my Intuos 4 large because otherwise, I would've invested an XP-Pen or Huion for a screen tablet, though it would be a gamble to check the right unit.
do you have an intuos 3 btw? I have one but I'm having problems with my line pressure
What kind of problems are you having?
@@thesevenpens maybe its because the pen registers only 1k pressure points but recently I felt it doesnt detect slight strokes or only registers part of the stroke and it looks like chopped lines.
@@zkme2734Hey, i have an intuos 4 and suddendly out of the blue i'm getting these chopped lines too. I think it's a windows update issue because it was great before, i've tried everything. Some days i have a good hour working great and then it starts to fail.
I think we can turn down the potentiometer in the pen to detect low sensitivity
I've seen some people do this. But have never tried it myself.
Welp , i thought of upgrading but i guess ill stick to mu 2013 intuos pro and xp pen display tab
Hi do you work with these two tablets in the same pc ? did you had some driver conflict using both tablets on the same pc ?
In your opinion, what is the best stylus to use with Samsung tabs? I have an s9fe+
I think the Wacom one Gen1 pen (cp-913) works best. I like the samsung s pen but the cp-913 works better for drawing.
Compare it to Apple pencil. I think apple pencil also have some pressure curve issues. Mainly I noticed that with very very light and slow stroke it makes some unknown bulbs on start of a stroke. Like an ink blob.
Yes, I also have the same issues with my Apple Pencil 2. I don't understand why people love it so much while it's so hard to hold the pressure.
I've often wondered what exactly caused those "bulbs" at the beginning. Lately I think it's because of a sharp spike of pressure values at the start - for me it happens a lot when I am "hitting" the tablet hard on the beginning part of the stroke. But I need research this more.
I hadn't noticed the pressure issues with the Apple Pencil so much. Which app are you using that you see it in?
@@thesevenpens in any app. Well, this is especially notisable in a sketchbook app. And no, this bulb occures when touching screen in the most gente way, barely sliding pen on a screen.
@@Uterr Interesting! I haven't noticed that with my Apple pencil. but I'll try to investigate it soon.
anyone else also had issues of paint strokes with the apple pencil 2? u would be painting a gradient lightly and suddenly it goes to full opacity for that 1 stroke. out the box too and 2 different pencils
Wacom continues to disappoint. Can you also test the new PW550 for Huion? They promised lower IAF, but I'm not sure if it's worth switching.
Yes you should switch to the new pen. I'm using the PW550s with Kamvas Pro 24 (4K) and can confirm that it's totally worth it. I hope 7Pen can do a comparison video like this for the Wacom Pro Pen 2 and Huion PW550. Because I can't see the difference in line quality.
@@koyodraka Hmm, interesting, is IAF close to Wacom? Also, what about tilt detection? It's far from perfect on my PW517, especially noticeable with flat brush (pen tilt on angle jitter).
@@lucid8302 I'm quite sure everything is the same as the Wacom Pro Pen, including the IAF and pressure curve. Except Huion doesn't support barrel rotation, a feature that is rarely used by the majority of artists.
I'd love to evaluate it's IAF, but I'm not a pressure expert like Kuuube who has a lot of experience doing it. I could try (and I have) but I don't have the skills for it.
What I understand in general is this: Wacom's Pro Pens have an IAF of less than one gf. The lowest I've seen from competitors like XP-Pen and Huion is 3gf - and these are numbers they have given not from independent testing.
More information here: docs.thesevenpens.com/drawtab/guides/core-features/pen-pressure
@@thesevenpens well, I'm only asking because there's not a lot of information about this pen. There is only one review on Teoh channel, but the quality of it is pretty poor.
Maybe this is a Software Issue? Im planning to buy the touch version
Definitely not a software issue. I've been investigating this with Kuuube and we don't see that it is due to the application or the wacom driver. I suspect it is two to a combination of (1) the pressure handling in the tablet firmware (2) the pressure sensor in the CP-923 pen. It is interesting that the two pen tablets are notably worse than the two pen displays.
Hi ! your channel is great, very sightful video, i was looking for some of these new tablets ( warning i write a lot ) i started making digital drawing as a hobbyst but i started to get some jobs , first tablet i used ( back in 2016 ) was a "Genius S" it was terrible!! .
Then i get some cheap small xp-pen tablet wasn't bad but size was too small and stylus felt made of cheap plastic.
Then i get a xp-pen Deco pro M using it till now, i think it's the best experience i had with non display tablets.
After a year and half or so, i'm looking to change my tablet, works ok , but i think is good to make some investment on the thing we use, i thought about getting a Wacom ( i can aford it now LOL ) known as the top noch tablet that you can get right ? i'm still very interested in Wacom and how ther's no other brand that can't get compared to Wacom drawing experience must be incredible (i guess ).
After making some research wacom intuos pro large must be the best option with 24 inch monitor, or a Huion diplay tablet very interest too on drawing on a pen display tab since i never had the oportunity to drawing on one ot those, both tabs in somwhat the same price range.
After all this research i think Wacom with all the good reputation they have, even on the very low cheap tablet they should offer the best experience that they can deliver, these are non diplay tablets and we are in 2023 every tablet they can make should work ok or better than the competence, so i will get some of those two options, did you had the oportunity to test the Xp-pen deco Pro ( gen 2 )? ther's a huge model they are offering now, the XL model it's big as A3 papper sheet ( bigger = better experience ? i don't know)
Thanks for your comment!
The Wacom Intuos Pro tablets are still the best you can get. I think every other brand of tablet in their recent models (2021 and later) have really improved though and the differences between their higher end models and the Intuos Pro are shrinking.
I would also like Wacom to deliver a better experience for their consumer levels tablets. Unfortunately they increasingly tend to leave the best quality and features to the pro tablets.
I am testing the XP-Pen Deco Pro XLW now along with the XP-Pen Artist Pro 16 GEN2. I will try to write up my thoughts about them in early October.
@@thesevenpens that's great news, I will be watching that review , thanks for the reply !
I think it's time to abandon Wacom as brand for me, I might take a look if they can release a tablet as similar as the intuos 4 L ... but I'm not holding that much hope.
Just keep buying secondhand older wacom tablets like the intuos 4 you mention. They're still great. No need to support the trash they've put out this time.
perhaps buy the used intuos stuff
@mofuumofuu I have the Intuos 4 large, but they have stopped supporting the driver for it since last year or so. With the Windows 11 update, it has been a hit or miss, unfortunately
One option - at least on Windows - for the Intuos 4 (or many other tablets) where the manufacturer has stopped support. Is to use OpenTabletDriver. I wrote some instructions on setting it up here: docs.thesevenpens.com/drawtab/guides/drivers/opentabletdriver/uninstalling-opentabletdriver-on-windows
Used Intuos (pro) tablets can work well, if you are prepared to deal with the potential that the drivers are no longer supported for those models. For those old tablets I used OpenTabletDriver.
This is not a new problem. Wacom products ALWAYS had pressure sensitivity problems, it is just that older displays masked the issues due to their low resolution.
I believe Wacom may have been using the same old software engine (with little modifications) for all of their graphic tablets since the 90's or 2000's. This would explain why the pressure quality decreases as the canvas resolution gets bigger.
Your video reeks of inconsistencies and inaccuracies.
6:09, Wacom One 2023 pen tablet model number prefix is CTC, not CTL. There is also known fact that Wacom is being a cheapass, and with the 2018 Intuos, only LP-1100k are compatible (other pens are blocked in Firmware level). the One M and One S are just the successor of Intuos M and S, forcing them to work with other unsupported pen and saying "it's bad" is nothing new, and expecting "update" for unsupported configuration is just a false hope.
The pressure plots: you are comparing plots with different range of frequency (Y Axes), if it is not for incompetence, I would accuse you of misleading.
Last point "no manufacturer driver" offers configurable pressure. Uh.. Wacom's and Huion's driver definitely do. In Wacom it's called tip feel.
At 6:09, thanks for pointing out that the wrong model number is shown. It is correct on the title slide that precedes this section. So this looks to be an editing oversight. I looked through my records and double checked though that the samples shown are for the CTC-6110WL. I've pinned a comment to the video explaining this discrepancy.
The point of me showing the other pens with the device was simply show that the some of pressure the issues are due to the tablets themselves. As these same pens don't exhibit some of the same problems on the older DTC-133 model.
unsupported pens - I'm not sure how to interpret your comment "forcing them to work with other unsupported pen". Wacom documents that others pens work with these devices and they specifically mention the S pen: www.wacom.com/en-us/comp
Expecting an update - To clarify the update comment. It's entirely unclear to me that the CP-923 pen problems can be fixed with an update. And I don't know if the pen even has firmware that can be updated. But I left the possibility open - as again I don't know enough about what capabilities Wacom has to adjust the pens behavior. With the tablets though - Wacom might be able to issue a firmware update to address some of the issues I encountered. Specifically the very odd pressure response I found with the Wacom One S and Wacom One M could in theory be mitigated to some degree.
Pressure plots - Could you elaborate on what you think they are conveying? I'm not fully understanding your comment.
Configurable pressure - I think you are referring to the slide at 16:23 which has a line that reads "No manufacturer driver supports user configurable pressure smoothing". And in fact I think that statement is correct - even with the examples you named. For example, Wacom's "tip feel" controls the pressure response curve, not pressure smoothing which is an entirely different processing of pressure. And they have very different effects on pressure. Pressure smoothing using some smoothing algorithm like Exponential Moving Average (EMA) that may be applied in the driver, but I've never seen any driver offer any control over it. I'm planning a video on EMA smoothing later so that may clarify the issue. The only driver I am aware that supports user control over pressure smoothing is OpenTabletDriver and that is through a OTD plugin made by Kuuube.