It’s Been a Good Run, Phone Providers.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- How are these legal??
*Product Links*
Lora v32 👉 amzn.to/43QhR1Y
Batteries (1100 mAh 3.7V 4.07wh) 👉 amzn.to/4aJ0ySz
MuziWorks Store 👉 muzi.works/
Cases & 915 Whip Antenae 👉 www.etsy.com/listing/16893509...
DJI Mini Drone 👉 amzn.to/43Nx5ok
3D Printing a PCB Partner (JLCPCB) 👉 jlcpcb.com/?from=DataSlayer
*Tutorial Links*
Full Blog Post 👉 / lora-v32-from-heltec-e...
Meshtastic Firmware
flasher.meshtastic.org/
Web Client Application
client.meshtastic.org/
Discover the revolutionary world of #Meshtastic, the new tech sensation that's changing the way we communicate off the grid. Move over, Flipper Zero, and welcome to a decentralized communication network that's open-source, free from big brother's watchful eye, and powered by tiny, affordable, and low-powered ESP32 microcontrollers. In this comprehensive video, we dive into everything Meshtastic can do - from encrypted messages over long-range LoRa technology to its applications in rural, mobile, or grid-down scenarios. Learn about the essentials, including how to set up your device, avoid common pitfalls, and even how to extend its range dramatically with a simple antenna upgrade.
This video is your guide to understanding how Meshtastic provides a confidential and secure way to communicate, perfect for avoiding wiretapping by telecom giants. Whether you're preparing for a festival, planning a remote adventure, or needing a reliable communication tool for NGO work in areas without cell infrastructure, Meshtastic has you covered. We'll show you what's inside the LoRa 32 box, suggest upgrades for better performance, and take you through the steps to get your device up and running with the latest firmware directly from your browser.
Experience an epic range test as we equip a drone with Meshtastic technology, demonstrating the true capabilities of these devices. From setting up the hardware, including choosing the right battery and case, to flashing the Meshtastic firmware and exploring practical use cases, this video is packed with valuable insights. Meshtastic is not just a gadget; it's a versatile tool for secure, encrypted, text-based communication, ideal for skiing, paragliding, camping, and more.
Don't miss out on the future of communication. Dive into the Meshtastic world with us, understand its vast potentials, and see if it's the right tech for your next adventure or project. Subscribe for more in-depth tech reviews and tutorials, and join us as we explore cutting-edge technologies that empower you to communicate on your terms.
**Keywords**: Meshtastic, off-grid communication, decentralized network, open-source, ESP32 microcontroller, LoRa technology, encrypted messages, range test, drone, firmware flashing, tech review, adventure tech, secure messaging, DIY tech project, Meshtastic setup guide, communication technology.
Contents:
00:00 - Introducing Meshtastic
00:18 - What can they do?
00:44 - Why LoRa?
01:31 - Heltec LoRa v32 v3
05:31 - Flash Meshtastic Firmware
07:56 - Meshtastic Client Apps
13:17 - Encrypted Chats
16:29 - Conduct a Range Test - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![🔴 [TRỰC TIẾP] Tứ Xuyên (Trung Quốc) VS BCTT Trường Tươi Bình Phước | Cúp VTV9-Bình Điền | JET STUDIO](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5nF-PCh_Ojw/mqdefault.jpg)
Congratulations. You re-invented the pager.
this may have been meant as a joke, but you can do a lot more than just send text and if the power grid dropped out this would still work , also it's uncontrolled by any government or company and encrypted so if that matters to you then there is that too
Rumor has it they are working on something called the wheel too!!
You either didn't watch the video and just looked at the picture or trolling by appearing as a complete numbskull.
But worse bacause it has a very limited range. The only use cases I can see is for backpackers and criminals.
@@DefaultFlame bullish on cartel mesh networks. Bro lives in miami so encrypted bag requests to his guy makes a lot of sense all things considered 🤣
I dont think im out of line when I say you did not clearly state WHY this is a phone provider killer. Clickbait title
If you'd watched the video you'd know. You must have only watched the first 30 seconds
It's a free, open source, off grid capable messaging system
@@drsatan3231 it’s a pager please stop kidding yourself
...it's literally in the first 30 seconds. This guy's just an idiot.
@sixteenjets Whatever you want to call it Mr. Hater...... is off the grid of big brother..... which sounds like your Dad!
Wooong wange wooky tookie.
If you are concerned with privacy, why on Earth would you use ANY Google product, especially Chrome?
This
You can do it it on brave, no? Or did I just buy the wrong Lora?
On mobile, I use different browsers for different purposes and it includes chrome, on pc I sometimes use a modified fork of chromium
@@needausernameJesus just look on every apps permissions and if you got time to read all those terms and agreement, most often you got forced to agree to use their products.
specially chrome...... iubtub might B..... 4 reaching people....but...... that´s quiete right !
Goodbye phones.
*Requires Phone.*
This video just won the click-bait award. lol Sure these are cool, but definitely not a cellphone replacement by any stretch of the imagination. There's a reason why cellphones are called "cell"-phones, due to the thousands of advanced cell base stations.
tfw you don't know what a phone provider is
I mean, you can technically make a pocket raspberry pi setup and connect it to it and it will work...
Funny, but you conflated “phone” with “phone provider”.
Hi, I've been working in the RF engineering space for over 15 years, some insights. There will be a limit to range due to the transmit power of the devices, this is something that is usually limited by region, hence the reason why you need to pick a region on the inital set up, this is usally called reglatory domain, and controlled by the FCC in the US, OfCom in the UK and ETSI in the EU. A larger antenna does not mean that you will be able to transmit further, however it does mean that the device can 'hear' more, as it has a larger capture surface. The antenna used in the video, both 'stubby' and 'whip' are known as omni-directional antenna, this is because they transmit their power in usually a 360 degree radius from the antenna, range is also liimited with this type of antenna as it is transmitting in all directions, think of the power being divided equally in a 360 degree circle around you, the target node is in one of those directions so would, for example, only be receiving 5% of the transmit power of the originating device. Range could be dramatically increased by using a directional antenna, for example a 20 degree one, as the transmit power would be divided over a much tighter space. This is quite simplified, mulitple other factors such as polarisation and attenuation come in to play as well, and this is a comment, not a white paper :)
LoRa is not a 'illegal' technology, it was developed to fulfill a need in both urban and rural remote areas to transmit data, usually from autonamous nodes such as traffic lights, weather stations etc, where the data payload is low, its also used quite heavily in the farming industry to track wildlife, report on the health of crops and machinary. It also uses a lower frequency than traditional WiFi, which means the wave length is longer, and is able penetrate more dense materials, there for increasing its potential range.
The one concerning thing highlighted in the video for myself, was the ability to track nodes, it seemed like you were able to determine the location natively on the device of a node without any kind of authentication.
Another note to add would be SIGINT (Signal Intelligence), if someone is planning on using these devices in a situation such as a warzone or potential conflict zone (I'm thinking of civilian communications in Israel or Ukraine), as this creates a mesh network, meaning there will always be some level of RX/TX from these devices, by either relaying of messages, or attempting to discover new nodes in the mesh network, these devices would be quite easy to track down for an equipped force, potentially aiding in the capture or attack of the user. The equipment needed by people/govenments/militaries to track these types of signals is fairly ubiqutious now and rather cheap, something to keep in mind. SIGINT operators utilise 'listening posts' or devices (drones, AWACS etc) to 'listen' for RF, trianglate the signal and direct forces to that location (or order strikes), this has been used to great effect by the Ukraine military against the Russian Federation in the early part of the conflict for example.
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, I’m new to Lora but have been messing with FPV drones for years now on 2.4 and 5.8 after reading I upgrade my DJI transmitter antenna that were basic folding bipolar to a square “patch” antenna I believe it was called and it was a huge ungraded for range and video quality but also very sensitive to facing the right direction. Is there similar “patch” antenas that will give similar results for these Lora devices. Line of sight is very important on our FPV stuff. Forgive my ignorance on the subject if I’m not comparing apples too apples.
Noice
great explanation, thank you for taking the time to write it up.
@@DimMakTen31 I imagine there is, although I imagine quite rare given the nature of LoRa - directional antenna's are somewhat counter to what the technology is trying to achieve. Try searching for the LoRa frequencey used in your region and antenna suppliers, you may get lucky. Its important to get the antenna that is for the correct frequency, else this can actually impact range and performance, and may even damage radio equipment through back reflections into the transmitter - as explained in the video.
We often discribe 'listening' or 'hearing' signals, but its actually more accurate to say 'seeing' signals, the best way to think about the signals and their radiation/propagation, is to think of a lantern and a flashlight with the same luman output - the lantern lights up the area in all directions with itself in the centre, and the flashlight only lights up one specific area, what you will see is that the flashlight can light up the one direction brighter and further despite the output power being the same as the lantern.
the low cost of these devices allows to deploy a ton of nodes though so yeah they can be tracked but it can become a pretty time-consuming job to root out hundreds of those hidden around or literally thrown off a plane/drone at regular intervals to maintain the network
I can assure everyone, that no cell phone providers were harmed by the production of this product.
I gave a dislike just because of the title, is interesting but some titles are dumb af
Click bait nonsense!
One per 10 households or one in every 10 cars, and texting for cell providers becomes optional.
That's a shame, can we go again and try for a higher score?
It could be harmful to women, however.
yes goodbye phone providers , all my friends in a 3 mile radius bought walkie talkies
I know a dude in this industry. Trust me, anything with a frequency can be listened in on.
Sure they might be able to see transmissions but they can't read/listen if it's encrypted. Do you really think the police & military who communicate via encrypted communications can have everything listened to or read?
You can detect things well enough if they are transmitting, but if you send a short encoded message and it is not long enough to brute-force attack it, then unless you just get crazily lucky, you can only DF where the signal is coming from, not actually decode it.
One of the most amazing bugs was the one on the United States Seal - just a stunningly beautiful piece of presicion engineering which (I think) worked on a GDO basis where the audio in the room would alter the resonance of a little chamber - which then interferred with an RF beam squirted in from the building over the road. Depending on how the resultant signal was being affected (basically modulated), they could re-build it to get audio.
Yet the device never really transmitted, it just "interferred" with an external signal. Clever little thing :)
all encryption can be hacked.
and being open software do you really belife the gov is not involved?
@@TOMinPDX Encryption is a myth. Any code can be cracked if you have time and patience, or computing power.
The entire concept of 'information security' is a joke. The only way to keep your information safe is to be so boring and unimportant that it's not worth the trouble to crack the code. If you have anything worth knowing, someone will find it.
@@larryjanson4011 That's why banks are unable to keep money in their accounts because encryption gets hacked I guess. It's the reason that one million bitcoin sitting in a single account since 2011 is still there because the encryption can be hacked too, right?
"outside the control of big-brother" FCC says hi.
As long as they're Part 15 and stay within 902-928 MHz, use spread spectrum or frequency hopping, and are 1 W or under ERP (which is all true), FCC is totally okay with it.
@@charlie_nolan Yeah, this is totally fine under FCC. I need to see if it has European compatibility (different freq)
@@charlie_nolan Sure, until they aren't....
Believe it or not, the FCC lately doesn’t take sides. They don’t really make friends with anyone. They’ve given the bird to other US government agencies many times in the past.
@charlie_nolan True....UNTILL they change the regulations so they can cover this. Thatis how totalitarians work. They don't want you free of their tentacles.
There should be a global effort by everyone to build a self-sustainable network of these devices powered with solar or other sources to create a massive network. Would be different from the internet or other networks, but could be used as a backup communication network incase things ever got bad.
Democrats will make it illegal
I dont know much about this but this only works because bot a lot of people use it right? Like if everyone started using it there would be saturation problems right or do they have a work around for that?
I’d rather see these be able to use cellular networks for free to use as WiFi on your phone. That’s the only practical use I can see. Without that what’s the point?
Funny u shud say that. 6-7 years ago I presented such an effort to a cloud comm telco I was at. The idea was to incorp current cloud tech an build out a lost ptt usage with this type tech which cud kick in when cell grid is down. It's fairly easy to build as u can see here, or partner with a small co. that has some funding; well.. why the big wigs were thinking it over and benched it (hard to package n sell near free tech; I was thinking users n brand) A year passed. The company I presented as a buy or partnership with gained a gov. Contract and took it all next level an hush. Some dont see the forest for the trees.
I foresee groups forming and dissolving. Really touches on the things amateur radio folks fiddle with already. A criminal element will probably exist for more secure communication (sigh).
"This will kill phone providers" *needs phone to work* lmao
needs phone to work: doesnt need a phone to work
He probably means phone service providers i guess?
ai generated video
You don't need phone service providers even without this, the issue is you will have to carry with you a WiFi booster everywhere you go
phone provider != phone
"outside the control of big brother"
Uses proprietary communication protocol.
The antenna makes all the difference. Currently building a small mesh network in my area.
Any specific you recommend that are good for the price?
@@blasandresayalagarcia3472maybe WisBlock
Yep, SWR the closer to "1" makes a big difference.
not only antenna, but tx power
@@s.i.m.c.a Power helps, but LORA devices only put out 21dBm gain. An amplifier would help, but may not be legal. Having a good antenna will make the biggest difference. I use the digital mode FT-8 often on 20 and 30 meters and can communicate worldwide on 60 watts. Granted, 60 watts is more like 48dBm, but it's radiated from a 27 foot high gain vertical. The conditions on HF are a little different than UHF also.
You lost me at 500 feet, that’s 152 meters. I can shout to my friend at that distance.
but can you shout encrypted data to your friend? :D
@@cmelgarejo if you have a speech code like Pig Latin. ;)
@@cmelgarejo or maybe even Horse Russian!
if you have a ham radio license you can transmit at 10w
@@burchifiedI can transmit at 50 watts GMRS mobile, you only need HAM if you want friends to talk too. 😂 GMRS operators transmit information, HAM's chit chat.
They’re headed in the right direction, still much room for growth, looking forward to how much better they’ll make them
look, it's a nice system....... it's been around for years. It's a solution for a problem that hasn't existed yet.
Maybe in the future.
There are other systems out there now, and have been around for some time. And been used successfully for industry.
Think of PLC,s or industrial computers (non-windows usually) and their communication systems. They started up in the late '70's and have just boomed over the years in terms of advances.
Hello 1995. Happy to see the 1995 Motorola Tango is back. Nice new complicated way to send text messages to each other.
Thank you 😊 for the video
@@suzanneladue5828 SOrry Suzanne, I never made this video.
I dont understand anything here, yet i feel so excited to watch this.
Amen lol!
That is a recipe for disaster.
@@jamesmccaul2945 😂
I kind of feel the same way I can really see the use for it I never go to the desert and I think it’s easier just to use my phone like normal then I can reach everybody no matter how long away from me they are😂
Roger that! :)
Awesome! I invented a phone for the house that stays there all the time and is attached to the wall with a cord so you don’t ever lose it.
Amazing, I am using two tin cans and a string but the cost is low and the system never goes down.😅
>D the coil cord that you can stretch from the kitchen around multiple walls, down the hall to about 3 inches inside your bedroom door though right?
You jest, but a pair (or single) copper wire from your house back to the exchange typically survived DECADES and just carried on working. Might get a bit crackly from time to time and so on, but ultra simple and ULTRA durable. Power cut? HomePhone still working just fine. Local mast damaged / maxed out - HomePhone still works. Dropped your handset - Homephone don't care. Drop it, stand on it, drive over it - probably still giving you a dialling tone. Good for about 60 years before you might want to replace it (for a nice new colour).
The old stuff just worked - basically forever. Modern Phones with their "designed to fail", glass screens and microlife batteries are great while they work - but if you NEED to have a phone that is guaranteed to work - the old housephone probably won't let you down from one decade to the other.
Can you say that about the latest plastic delight people pay over £1000 for ?
Sometimes you just want reliability and not "Oooh look I can take a super photo on a telephone while liking a picture of a plate of food".
FACTS
@@melissasmess2773 and unlimited minutes
Loved this but, utility utility utility. Imagine your grandmother using this thing, it's been a good run grandma, just flash this device and muck about with the stub antenna. If you catch my drift?
Neat little solution.
I'm having difficulty locating the problem it solves.
🤔🤣🤫
although the problem is unknown,
it makes it more efficient to solve that unknown problem.
I do not know of a comm's problem that hasn't been solved using RF or industrial comm's technology........ PLC's/computers communicating thru spread spectrum transceivers, 'shortwave' for long distance comm's. I note that this is for a personal radio system in the 94x Mhz area.... they are inherently a short distance product anyway. But it is interesting to experiment with them and see what is possible.
The aerial makes a lot of difference with that frequency. But it depends on the application if you can take advantage of directional aerials. If you are on the move... well you can't. Any application requiring mobile comm's is inefficient as normally an omnidirectional aerial is used, unless you go to Satellite repeaters (Starlink etc) , but then you still need a fixed dish somewhere close to do that....
I was an IT in the navy dealt with a lot of encryption and secured comms i would say just by the transfer to the device to the phone you lose a lot of security to the comms i will also add just because your communicating on what you think is in encrypted it can still be detected if they are looking for emissions
100% agree with you, Its not as secure as people claim to be or at all, It can be a good way to communicate in emergency situations for off grid uses or when networks are congested , but can easily be tracked because the Lora pings your GPS location when you communicate which you would know that can be traced through RF as well. Its amazing that people swear that its encrypted and is " Safe" , although still good to have for emergency uses.
@@killerdeamonking
Ok so not all long range (lora) are tied to GPS modules they are the same as any other transceiver technology. They use a bandwidth that used to be used for analog television signals. As for encryption that happens before anything is transmitted it's not a VPN tunnel it's not being encrypted by the antenna. And sure you can triangulate any rf signal and you can capture or intercept it but if encrypted it's still just going to be a garbled mess without the proper encryption key.
Came to say similar. You are still beaming out a radio signal. I don't see how that makes you any less susceptible to be man in the middled than anything else.
@@matthewmucci9107 man in the middle , you are the man in the middle at that point because in order for a mesh system to work you have to setup a hub yourself for your area. As far as big brother goes , they can snoop the signal like any other and get a device location as that's how lora mesh works , the radio devices grab that location then tells your hub how far out you are then relays that message to your recipient. The whole point of this system is to remain operational should that cell towers and all other communications towers go down other than your own.
he didn't say anything about not being trackable, ever, only that the message would be encrypted, and even then only on the encrypted "channel" ... I agree that it is important to point out specifically that it is trackable though. especially, as somebody else pointed out, if the entity buying it is intending to use it to aid some sort of political resistance effort.
Old Radio guy for the military.
Radio waves can penetrate nonconducting materials, such as wood, bricks, and concrete, fairly well. They cannot pass through electrical conductors, such as water or metals. Above ν = 40 MHz. Ya I took this from Britannica because I didn't want to type it out, long story short that's why you can get though multitudes of buildings and dense woods but struggle on a lake or beach. Ground radio waves also project in a curve (this is why they bounce off the water so quickly) so no joke you grab a 6-20ft antenna to any of these or even build a permeant housing and this could be broadcasting for miles.
You didn't want to type one sentence... aka you don't know what you are talking about.
@@thomgizziz you feel better about yourself now? Do you feel superior to him? lol for the life of me, I will never understand people who are rude to other people for no reason on the Internet. You must hate yourself.
@@gregjensen8267 Yes @thomgizziz appears to be a professional disrupter. There are 100s of 1000s of them assigned to disparage technology that provides some escape from the Matrix. The official troll handbook instructs: disparage, disrupt, degrade. dispute (note words begin with the same letter ... that's because people employed thusly are not very bright, and have leaky memoires.).
@@thomgizziz was there any need to randomly be a dick to people?
@@thomgizziztf is your problem?
Years ago at work my group did something similar. We miniaturized a VHF/UHF relay platform and slung it under a huge balloon. I launched it from Norman, OK and it came down in Kentucky. It spent hours at around 105,000’ and provided a relay footprint of almost 400 miles. 3 channels of VHF and 4 channels of UHF. While I put our contact info on the payload it’s never been returned so there’s some cool tech probably hung up in a tree in Eastern Kentucky.
No gps to get a fix on where it landed? E. KY here.
My dealer is going to love this
Not to ruin the vibe, but LoRa over water is great, in normal urban settings they perform quite badly. Hopefully one day they can be used reliably in urban settings.
I had very sad results with the Heltec v2 and proper antennas I got 700 meters in a line-of-sight urban scenario, which is practically nothing. I hope these will be usable in urban areas in the future, reliably for up to 3-4 km in range, because in open fields they are truly amazing.
The more people using the mesh the stronger it gets
@@squigglesmcjr199 Good luck having a node every 500 meters. Let me know when it’s up globally and I’ll join.
wowthanks u probably saved me wasted money. I have NEVER heard this before and found it surprising. i have been seeing more and more stuff about LoRa stuff and thought it was a good route
@@squigglesmcjr199 Yeah, it's an adoption rate problem, really.
That all depends on if you have a main node high enough... I have 2 heltec v3 talking to each other 27 miles away right now..... And anything in between works cuz it fits through them
Wow that's complicated. I don't think providers have anything to worry about 😂
not just complicated, but lack of features.
this guy makes it look way more complicated than it actually is
Exactly. Long boring video for a useless thing no one will use
More importantly, it doesn't do what a phone does. This is only useful as an emergency device, like a satphone (or for drug dealers).
What kind of scooter is in your icon? I just upgraded to the wolf king gt pro!
I was pumped about the item and concept behind it until 17 minutes in and then it was like:
This is more trouble than, (yawn), I want to deal with.
Don't forget about antenna polarisation - keep them vertical. For those antennas RF radiation emits as a donut.
The most important factor is tuning the antenna's SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) as close to "1" as possible in order to minimize transmission loss. I bet Andy Kirby would be excited about these tests. :D :D
That was bothering me throughout the video. Range test results don't mean squat if there is no consistency in antenna orientation. As for the drone. . Mounting it horizontally on top of the drone seems like 2 bad ideas rolled into 1 to me. I'd love to see some real range tests with vertical orientation and also SWR tuning. And some amplification if you're feeling frisky. I will bet they have a lot more range to give than 3 miles.
Hmm.. someone should make a self correcting antenna mount which will use accelerometer data to always be pointing upwards.
@@simp-slayer That is a terrible idea... making things overly complex when you can just point it up isn't smart.
@@thomgizziz Yeah, I guess. Perhaps I just needed a weekend project 😅
This is perfect, using some homemade battery pack and old cellphone I can create a tracker for my pup. When in the woods she likes to explore, although she stays in eye sight, this would be my peace of mind.
Or just get a board with GPS. Most of them do have it. Not sure why one without GPS was recommended. Then you don't have to strap a cell phone to your dog.... which defeats the purpose, because you could just strap the phone by itself.
there is a dog tracker in the market... I think it has several miles radius.
@@overdriver99 Indeed. The company I use is called fi and I think there is another called Tracktive. fi uses GPS and sends the location back to your app. Works quite well, but only updates every minute at best and the GPS signal can be lost. May indeed be able to build a more robust system.
@@scrampkerWithout gps is reccomended because of big brother...
@@charlesatanasio I'm not sure I follow. GPS being available on the device doesn't in any way give the gov more info. Totally depends on your usage, but I'd assume you would encrypt the dog tracker details. The gov could track the radio regardless, with pretty wild accuracy.
This is pretty neat yes buildings and trees effect range. Basically anything that exists will drop performance. I have had my amateur radio license for a couple of years. We are not allowed to use anything encrypted. There’s networks similar to this using ham radio and a lot more power. But when running a computer network through it everything must go unencrypted. I am going to get some of these and play around with them. Using the ham equipment and power 45 miles is my record with a network. I can go much farther with voice or CW. The data speed is pretty slow. Plus all the FCC. Hoops you have to jump through. No hoops with LORA.
you can still get in the s^*t with LORAN if you go "over powered" or "off frequency", or mode of transmission is not permitted. Those frequencies are in the citizen band / PRS radio band... even in those bands you have to watch what you are doing. That circuit board is software controlled, and you do a country or region select.... that fixes the problems above.... and limits you to hobbyist or experimental stuff.
1:03 That's a nice watch. Had many of them. You can even use the stopwatch function with gloves on.
In 2015, a me and my supervisor talked about this technology. This will be very helpful when disaster comes and no telecommunications are available.
disaster has already come.
HAM radios are the emergency comms worldwide. These Things are amateur pagers for local friends.
When disaster come but you still have a plug to charge your devices... like... a small disaster!
@@melissasmess2773 need a license for ham. dingbat.
How is this better than conventional radios?
this won't change phone providers... it's bandwidth is too low and short range.
There are boards that do Meshtastic and suppoert GPS if you want to add a tracker for objects.
Put one in your car and you'll always know where your car is, as long as there is a Meshtastic access point somewhere nearby.
LoraWan supports relay by proxy of free use IOT device networks, so basically, it can scream into the eather and if 1 smart lamp heard it it will retransmit it till it reaches the destination
But both devices need to share encryption keys so you dont get snooped on
how much bandwidth would i need for like 500 miles
@@andyscott4949 Bandwidth is the amount of data over a specified time. Not range.
They have something similar that can that works at 1000 miles
It won't because people just prefer to keep it easy. Who really needs private messages..
Great so some how it did work .we are looking forward to see innovation from across the globe that will improve the quality of life and bring smiles on millions of faces .
Organize crime is doing the Birdman hand rub right now 🤣🤣🤣
The old pagers are back and just as useful as before
The orientation of the antennas is also a key factor often times overlooked in RF transmission from these sorts of projects. Radio Waves in a whip/stub antenna are polarized either horizontally or vertically depending on the direction the antenna is oriented in relation to the surface of the Earth. If the antenna is held upright and pointed skyward the direction of propagation of the radio waves with respect to the Earth's surface would be horizontal. If the orientation of the other antenna is laying flat as opposed to standing upright, there will be a signal loss of 20dB due to polarization mismatch. This is an almost total loss of signal strength. Maximum signal strength occurs when the transmitting antenna’s polarization matches the receiving antenna’s polarization.
When a polarization mismatch occurs in a linearly polarized antenna the entire signal will be lost due to the misalignment.
This is probably best demonstrated using the picket fence analogy. A signal passing through a linear polarizer is much like a rope passing through a picket fence. As long as the oscillations of the rope are in line with the fence pickets, the oscillations can pass through the fence to the other side.
If however, the fence was rotated 90 degrees, the oscillations of the rope would impact against the pickets and the energy and motion of those oscillations could not pass through to the other side of the fence. Effectively the “signal” has been cut off.
-20dB is a notional value. In theory, all power should be lost during this conversion. But we are not living in a perfect world and some power will always go through.
Thanks, one would hope that an enthusiast that gets into radio communication of any kind will do the legwork - which most certainly needs to include a layman's understanding of how the physical size/length/orientation of antennas is absolutely critical to the process.
How to you figure out which way your antenna is polarized?
Esp32 just doesn't handle that much processing required for large data transfer. So you can have plenty of signal strength but the bandwidth is still rather limited by the hardware. I know because I did this exact thing by modifying vanilla ad hoc mesh network libraries about four years ago. I was able to get live video across five nodes at around 60 to 70fps reliably over about 600 meters open area. But I had to modify and shorten the data protocol and switch to hex basically shorthand UDP it otherwise it just wouldn't handle it. And it only works to increase bandwidth by making a master and a slave endpoint who's sole purpose is to break up shorthand address and reassemble data packets. And only then you get more bandwidth according to the amount of nodes used and data packets sent at once. But as you scale up you get to store those pipe addresses on each device. And it quickly becomes an issue of node redundancy from the master's max data packets released at once. Or if you prefer a matter of each devices routing processing time effectively it becomes not worth it to add anymore nodes. At that point it makes more sense to just go with a single industrial solution. Now if your expectations are to send or stream single videos text messages or an array of integer data from sensors sure this will be fine. But if you're expecting to send several large files and simultaneously receive another file with any haste then no it simply isn't worth the hassle.
@@fireteamomega2343I have very little understanding of what you just said, but it sounds like maybe you should contribute to the meshtastic project😂
Gotta love the 21th century rediscovery of amateur radio.
The modernised idea is cute, and the encryption is a solid upgrade, but the rest is like WW1-era technology at best.
The WWI models used candles instead of LEDs and horse-drawn. Did you know horses could draw? No. See?
are you say all these youtube commenters claiming this is revolutionary tech are … WRONG?!? *faints*
Thanks for the video. I've been playing with Meshtastic off and on for some time. This is good info and very helpful.
We at the cia thank you for notifying us and we will ensure to hardwire our "protective system mangament" on to all sold chips
he has chromium based browser, there are no mesages they dont read already ...
Sorry, Big Brother. Open source.
They'll see everything.
@@ThatGreenSpyyou can put tech on the chips themselves
clarify management please....
Yeh, well If its on a chip it can also be erased... we'll use an ch341a chip programmer and erase your code and write an alternative on there.
The more I think about it, the more that I realize that even though this is a cool technology, there will never be that many people that will want to use it if they can't access their social media accounts on it.
whats wrong with you..... this is the perfect solution to a problem that we never had... it is so efficient. I don't know what to do with it though....
this isnt even cool tech , this is for paranoid government end of the world get out baggers who dont understand it is worthless in that situation.
Very good that you know how to make those devices. Respect.
Could these be used also as a transmitting/receiving beacon to locate someone? (great for backpacking/skiing etc.) I got some learnin' to do
Line of site over land with good antenna about 100feet up: 40 miles is about the limit we found.
300ft with parabolic we stopped trying at 60 miles because we couldn't get line of sight further than that.
Now, find an area with large numbers of devices set as a mesh and you will really get some speed and distance.
"Radio Frequency Propagation" is what many people need to study.
It seems new to many people here, but these properties of radio propagation have been researched and known about for well over 100 years.
Why does 934 Mhz work? Why doesn't it work? Learning about radio signal transmission (or Radio Frequency Propagation) will help if you're in this for the long haul. The software, the mesh etc are different topics. There are several layers to get thru with those higher frequencies .
You can also use GRMS radios with rattlegram for longer range in some conditions.
Yeah I didn't want to be a wet blanket, but this is basically a neat little toy with enormous limitations. A pair of Baofeng uv-5Rs are the same price, better range, better battery life, and they don't rely on mobile apps or webAssembly craziness, although they don't send text messages... but if the internet went down and Baofeng went out of business, my radios would still work, without being tethered to a mobile phone.
I would've been so much more excited about this if it wasn't touted as a "phone killer" despite requiring a phone and a proprietary app that you need to get from the app store 🤦♂️
@@Alkimiyeah any analog or digital radio is leaps and bounds better than this. You can modify your radio to send encrypted texts or even do audio encryption. And it would still be cheaper than this.
@@xfy123 You aren't getting encryption.
@@syntaxerrorsix3137 you won't get any encryption out of the box on any radio unless it's more recent military surplus but you can set it up yourself pretty easily.
Great video - thank you - been interested in LoRa for some time now - you detail and explain it well.
Amazing. Now everyone around me will start buying them to say “HI” to each other 😢
I remember I have checked LoraWAN maybe 5 years ago, similar stuff and its range go up to 10-20km. It's for IoT sensor to collect data in different locations and send back to the center for kind of scientific research. Now the range maybe even longer.
The new record now stands for LoraWan at 1336 km / 830 miles
it's been going on for ages....... there are other commercial and industrial systems out there that are more expensive and superior. The LORAN stuff is on free to air channels for brilliant people with no money.
In reality it is for non-commercial / industrial use.... Hobbyists and experimenters. Don't confuse this with real equipment. Real equipment already exists, and has for many decades. In Industry, everything is there... it costs. It is awesome and works.
With Loran everything is largely experimental equipment, may or may not be accurate, what do you connect it to... are the results verified. If in a two way control system.... is it going to work. Shall we install this for comm's on the next lunar mission? Will the president use this to connect to the big red button on his desk........ "awwww, well it works for 3 miles, and Jed used it over 5 miles.... once." Use it to experiment, don't use it in real life, due to propagation (RF) issues
I can't imagine how useful these devices would be for researchers, park rangers and others working in areas with no cellar service but needing to connect their equipment.
Have you ever heard of heavy rain, floods, power outages, Tornados, hurricanes, exploding transformers, old wires, earth quakes.... More people need this than you think.
@@PatrickjohnphotographyI think he meant for people that could use it daily.
@@gunfun7772 Yeah, except for that one part, where you need a cell phone to use the thing.... if you have no power, how you logging onto an app? this is a poor mans Nextel Pager.
Blud, walkie talkie exist
Or drug dealers
"Outside the control of big brother.". **HEARTILY LAUGHS IN BIG BROTHER**
I might eventually try this out. I'm a ham radio operator, and have experimented with APRS, which is *_sort of_* similar.
I'm guessing that messages _(can)_ get relayed by different _"nodes"_ only if they're on the same channel, correct? I would also love to see an internet _"tunnel"_ option for longer range comms. Not that the internet would be *REQUIRED,* but it could be used if/when it's available. Perhaps the _Meshtastic_ equivalent of _"MQTT"_ for _LoraWan_ ...
Definitely in its early stages, can’t wait for what lies ahead for Meshtastic
Doing it not to be tracked down is probably an bad idea because it could have spyware
True! Lower frequency is increased range but yes less data can be transferred.
No, bandwidth is decreased. Not necessarily lower data speeds.
@@TheRealEtaoinShrdlu The absolute data speeds will be lower due to lower frequency's slower cycling rate however since that isn't going to be your bottleneck. LoRa standard is an order of magnitude faster (shorter wavelengths) than AM radio here in America. So you can see, as far as audio or text, it is more than fast enough. Video transmission would be a different issue.
Also, i dont know if anyone pointed this out, but the major issue with radio signals, especially simple ones like this, is you're still at the mercy of atmospheric effects and uh sorry to be that guy but being in motion or not in motion is a BIG factor, so thats why despite having direct LOS youre still losing messages
Source: Currently a NavET on Submarines
This reminds me of the old chat toys from the early 2000's like the CYBIKO and CHAT NOW.
That was my first thought too. Cybiko Xtreme was so ahead of its time.
I had one of those Cybikos I thought I was the only one who remembered those
yes used old packet radio 1200 baud still in use today Aprs, bbs, nodes etc...
meshtastic is short short range pretty useless for everything... where as something like Vara AC can do so much more.. messaging to 24,000 miles with the right frequency...
Came here looking to see if someone mentioned that.
I loved the cybiko!
Thanks for sharing this information. Very well done and helpful. A couple things to consider. Refactor 3d printed mobile computing device plus mesh node housing in the form of various "sleeve" concepts to introduce the idea of more efficient integration and use of space. The current configurations are excellent demonstrations for introducing the use of a separate mesh node network through the integration and use of two standalone handheld devices. The appropriate next step from a hardware and software and utility perspective would be tighter integration. I also believe that one of the key value propositions is that the hardware is not fully integrated with existing mobile communications systems. A sleeve concept maintains the benefit of keeping hardware separate while improving handheld efficiencies.
... which is why those ultra cool Fallout inspired devices with built in keyboards give any man an erection to see picture of. The problem is that as soon as you add that much complexity you start to require parts that will stay reliable, and the next thing you know a working marketable prototype is already outside of the hobbyist sphere - which is why we can't buy clones of the awesome goodies I have seen as one off ultra gizmos.
Is the Transmit power okay to leave at 30 dBm? I’m not too familiar with dBm but on the Heltec V3 website it says 21 dBm max. Is smaller more powerful then?
I remember calling my friends from one of the first massive box Motorola cell phones a friend had back in like 86-87 ish. Called from his car to my buddy who did not believe I was calling from a portable phone!
This is indeed an over-engineered private paging network.
with a 500Khz channel bandwidth and a Spreading factor of 7
that thing can transmit at ~8kbps... this allows to transmit voice using a codec
like G.729
even if only allowing 1 side at a time communication (walkie-talkie mode)
voice transmission would be a nice feature...
Yes but you don’t want to overload a network which may depend on a single relay.
The ts3s Lora board already supports audio. Lookup meshtastic audio module...
depending on your system LoRa mases out at about 20-21kbps so you cna do quite a lot with that, I am currently looking at transmitting small images/video with it
No, that's not a good idea. I guess it's not allowed to utilize the frequency more than 1%.
So it's useless@@papakamirneron2514
I recently learned about comb filtering and now I'm hearing it everywhere 💀
To free us from the expectations of others, to give us back to ourselves there lies the great, singular power of self-respect.
It’s Important to understand that this device operates on line of sight. just like a walkie talkie
it's almost exactly like a walky talky, except he had to connect his phone to it....... but the basic transmitter.... yep, similar frequency and power as a UHF CB or PRS (both are public radio frequencies) walky talky
That's why the video took 26+ minutes..... believe me, there is nothing new there.
And the other little hacking gadget ..... yes the little white and orange thing has absofu^*nlutely nothing to do with any of this video.
like WIFI?
I have lived in Miami so long that my mesh network was through a CB radio!
US Army Signal Corp. had this in 1967 .I was there , learning repair & operation .
no you didnt ! all these other youtube commentors are right , THIS IS REVOLUTIONARY TECH??!!! The government is one step closer to collapse!
The Helium Network is way more likely to extend the current network providers.
Also, there are messaging apps that use bluetooth to piggyback from user to user until the end receiver.
They work great in villages that don't have internet.
this is awesome I was just looking at some lora stuff for a mailbox alarm .. 1/2 mile from the house to the mailbox I kinda like knowing when the door is opened :) ..
Cool, my Simplisafe alarm system tells me when the mail arrives, rigged a door sensor to my box and programmed for door chime only notification, non alarm.👍🏻
Antenna performance is very important for transmitting, because it raises the signal at the receive end above the ambient noise level….same as increasing transmitter power. On receive end, once you have enough gain to raise the signal above the receiver’s internal noise floor, there is no improvement. The only way good antennas help on receive is if they are directional, so they don’t include interference from all directions….of course you then have to know where to aim.
Of course if you are running duplex or half duplex, then both ends will want good antennae…though if one direction is just handshakes you could maybe lower data rate on the acknowledgement replies to compensate for a wimpier antenna.
Wasn't there a mesh networking walkie talkie like box called beartooth several years ago that connected to the android phone for display and usability but communications went through it?
The mesh network thing sounds useful. So if someone else has another pair of them then it can route your encrypted messages via one or both of their devices as intermediate nodes using any spare bandwidth while their devices are idle to double or triple your range? Shame that the bandwidth isn't high enough to send voice.
With some tweaking this is a very interesting bit of tech. I imagine it would be put to better use in a larger form factor that has more signal power output and some kind of ATAK phone board depending on use case. As is it looks great for shorter distance comms where you don’t want to yell and FRS handhelds aren’t reliable. Nodes could also be discreetly placed ahead of time to build a temporary local network.
For solar nodes, use a wisblock starter kit that has the 4631 on it. Has ports for solar and a battery and will have a significantly lower current draw. Can also adapt a gps or other sensors of your choosing if you so desire.
What kind of encryption you can use?
What ghz does the frequency opperate on it would have to be extremely low to be undetectable
Hey brother, then antennas preform best when the are straight up in the air. Laying on their side will greatly reduce their distance.
The open source makes this very interesting. It's a good start. And the chip can be amped.
All of their communications & code & social media happens over proprietary channel tho
@@gotoastal would you need a license if you used this on a radio frequency, since it's technically not a radio
@@andygluehere8266they are radios because they use a radio frequency, the data type doesn't matter. However, it seems seems the device is already set up so it stays in line with regulations and in any case its so low power is basically a toy. You most likely don't _need_ to get a license, but if you want to do anything more interesting than simply carrying these nuggets around, I'm sure learning the law proper, how things work and your limits will come in handy.
@@gotoastal the 433+/- and * or 94x+/- Mhz frequencies (and similar) are citizens band frequencies in many parts of the world, they are also known as PRS radios in some areas. That why his device has the "select region" setting... you set it to USA, Australia or Madagasgar or whatever is legal for that area. The software then controls the output power and frequency and mode of transmission for your area, in each little transceiver. Then you figure out what to do with it.... in this case this unit can connect with wifi. SO this is a wifi extender for txt, as it connects to a phone.... in a nice little unit, and a nice party trick. Nothing to complain about and maybe useful. But it is citizen radio for tinkerers and mad inventors.... I can't think of a case where anything using RF (radio waves) are not being better used in heavy industry or whatever, by existing industrial computer, PLC, and radio equipment, and for 55 years at least.
Anything using PRS / Citizen radio will always be short range for a physical reason (Search propagation of radio frequencies). And easily receivable by the authorities, if they are interested. God it must be boring monitoring other peoples comm's..... that's why they don't bother normally. (Mabel, canya turn the sausages on the bbq? Don't tell me to F*^k off ya dipshit.... etc)
Don't get me onto the possibilities and range problems.... either of those topics is endless.
can we use 3.2v lifepo4 battery? just for safety i shy away from the lipo and li-ion
It's funny, just recently I had a huge discussion with people about Pagers and then this pops up a few days later!
I played around with a couple of TTGo T-Beams and yes, it's a nerdy cool stuff. But in practice it's too buggy especialy when a node goes to sleep. It's only sometimes a stable receiver if the screen of the node is alive. We tried to establish an independent communication in our village, but the frustration of the members were too high due to laggy and sporadic message income.
Interesting, how many nodes did you have? Why was the transmission laggy and sporadic? Thanks!
@@melissasmess2773 I had 6 T-Beams with 868 Mhz. The message Income was sporadic and the App very rudimental. Not a good base for crowd messaging. Had sell 3 if them soon.
I'm designing my own case for swappable dual 18650s so you can change one while remaining powered.
Hot Swap > recharge. also a UVA+B panel on the back would be good like on those battery banks. Better than nothing. Probably use x3 1.5v 0.3w panels from outdoor path lights. Then use a 3.7v linear rectifier or some diodes & a high volt cutoff from a 18650 single battery charger.
WTF are you on about? You mean a solar panel? What you typed was nonsense that you thought made you look intelligent. Also taking solar panels from outdoor path lights is complete nonsense... "& a high volt cutoff from a" also nonsense. Please stop.
Title: It's been a good run, phone providers.
Conclusion of video: "these things are probably not going to replace my phone provider"
Old technology that you can build yourself, but nice to have it already packaged up.
Looking at the settings has options for frequency selection I think you would have to select the frequency range that would be optimized with your 915 Mhz antenna. And for max range find the optimum antenna and frequency selection. There's got to be documentation and resources for this information.
I just discovered Mumble. And I didn't realize there is so much to it, including added on packages and mods ...as well as a offline utility ;p
Worth noting that if you can't connect to the pc when flashing, the cable may be ok but the system does not have the right serial port driver. Regarding range, yes, the stub antenna isn't very good, but local LoRa traffic and radio noise can also be a factor.
Yeah, USB ports especially can be all kinds of problematic for these kinds of drivers. Anyone who has problems, make sure to try the ports on the back of your machine including 2.0 vs. 3.x.
I wonder about setting up repeaters to gain further distances? if it could work how many could daisy chained?
Skip to 12:42 to see how these actually work. If you want to buy/build one after that, watch the beginning.
You need a phone but not a carrier (service provider) as the devices serve as the transport layer instead of TMobile/ATT/Verizon/ETC.
Pretty cool for the backwoods (no service available) when the group may break up and rendezvous later instead of carrying a full sized radio.
If you ever wanted to do a drone to drone range test, we could get together on I-95. I can design and print some custom cases for the drones.
The drone tests I have done have been with a meshtastic next to my phone and the drone running as a repeater.
@Data Slayer If you can get your node outside of your apts tinted windows you will probably pick up more range. Its pretty common for commercial tinted windows to have a metalucized coating in the tint to reduce infrared & uv penetration into buildings. It does a pretty good job of attenuating radio signals, Also nano vna are pretty cheap check your antennas to make sure they are as advertised. AFAIK those stubby antennas ship for every country but I think they are better for 400 mhz which means you are wasting precious power heating up your heltec with a mismatched antenna. These radios use low power so having a matched dipole or yagi is going to give the best results. Whips are compact but best results with a balanced antenna and same polarization for both antennas.
Really good explanation and run-through of the tech. Since it has to interface with a cell phone in order to send/receive text, I wonder how "private" it really is. I understand the device encrypts, but cell phones capture pretty much everything that goes through them and sends all of that data (and audio and video?) back to who-knows-where at some dark, dusty NSA closet. Ergo, the transmitted signal may be secure on the Meshtastic end, but who knows on the cell phone end. Oh, and I have never owned a cell phone and don't intend to start that bad habit ever. I simply don't trust them...and don't feel comfortable being connected and tracked 24 hours a day.
I actually thought of making something similar to this. Neat to see it already exists.
if everyone has it, and small busnisses are setting them up in their front stores.
we would have a descent decentralized network.
am thinking of having it work on hybrid mode, if no node was found within 5 mins, the message automatically goes through wireless provider
maybe this approach would give this project a good head start, until marketing does it thing and they become popular.
we never predict trends but we can try
That also called apple tags 🙃
@@LordNementon i didnt know apple tags allow you to send SMS
My bad
Why on earth would stores set this up? What practical utility does it give them? These aren't going to become popular. People have cell phones and there is no reason for them to sink money into a backup they will probably never use.
@@thomgizziz People doesn't care of cell phones, they just wants a poket web browser
I don't like paying telecom companies. Every single one of them has burned me lol
I'm glad I found this video, I think I'll integrate this into my Cyber Deck as she's a disaster build. This would be useful for it to have.
except it wont…
So what frequencies are used? Did i miss that? Distabce is all about the antenna, elevation, frequency, and power.... not necessarily in that order.....
So like the pager I had in the 90s, but bigger and shorter range?
I am in Jupiter, have flown the Heltec V3 on my Drone and got over 5 miles with the stub antenna!
Cool experiment - you should get 10x that distance though.
How's the gravity over there?!😮
I thought it was really windy on Jupiter?
@@melissasmess2773 on the beach yes
This is absolutely stunning devices!!! ❤ very helped
Can it go through from basement to 49 floor? We have orinlem to troubleshoot fiber optic where we need 2 person to communicate.l
What recording software do you use for your screen recording and iPhone recording?
This is awesome. Great testing and explanation of the functions and features. Having a private LoRa Meshtastic channel reminds me of having a smartphone version of Get Smart's "cone of silence". Gotta love it.
you are easily impressed i see
I really want to host a cheap relay for this in my place