@@GeerlingEngineering Simple question...If your dad would design a shtf-comm system...how would he design it???.... for example a pi that transmits data on the CB-band (rtty?)(lower but free frequency)? Would he have demands on the software, for example a system with a phonebook so you would not get spammed with url's etc etc. A nice thought experiment but could be a life-saver!
@@jonjohnson2844 Good question! Anyway, adding asymetric cipher receently is a huge step forward. I think that delivery can be realized by particular software on receiving device (for IoT automation purposes) which will send receipt message. But this doesn't tackle receipt of messages written by users.
My college physics prof was a ham radio operator. He was into antenna design. When I took quantum mechanics from him I learned that the equations for designing antennas are the same partial differential equations as quantum mechanics.
I was studying the equations for particle energy density in an electromagnetic field. I realized that there were equations that related to field propagation that also translated to radio, since it is of course an electromagnetic field. Pretty cool. Mind you I am no physicist. Just fascinated with science. I will have to explore partial differential and antenna design. I already see some fantastic correlations with other fields of study.
I mean, it is basically quantum mechanics no? Radio waves are just human-scale quantum phenomena But yeah, it kind of drives home the point that quantum does not mean incomprehensibly small, it just means waves
For anybody who noticed the 500 feet comment, normally you can only fly a drone up to 400 feet. If you’re a part 107 pilot you can fly higher if you’re within 400 feet of a structure. Since he works at a radio station the power is higher.
I built a solar powered unit with an 8db omni antenna. I threw a rope over a tree branch about 50' above ground and hoisted the radio to the branch. I also adjusted the settings for maximum range and I can consistently connect to my other radio at 6 miles. Lots of details left out but that's what is possible with meshtastic.
I played with these about 2 years ago and discovered that they didn't automatically reboot when power was restored, making it unreliable for solar powered remote installations. Did they fix this?
@@gnormhurst I've add another small power control chip which would send button click signal to start the device once voltage is safe, independent of the device itself. Might be a simple voltage comparator circuit.
To fix the Bluetooth range on the heltec V3 all you need is a little bit of wire cut to 31mm. You desolder the little coil antenna and just solder that on. It's a massive improvement.
Hamvention 2024 in Dayton overloaded the network. There were at least over 200 nodes within the fairground and the constant rebroadcast was the biggest problem. The devs actually made changes about rebroadcast because of that both in software and default settings.
What a timely video. I live in Swannanoa, NC, which was devastated by Helene. I'm also a ham and in our rural, remote community, we were cut off for days due to both our bridge and a significant section of our road being washed out. Fortunately, I had several VHF handy talkies and, since it was an emergency, I distributed them to neighbors and we used it to communicate when we had no other connection to the outside world. As things are starting to normalize a bit now--meaning, things are improving and we're getting used to the new "normal"--I'm exploring a more permanent off-grid radio solutions for our community of about 40 households on a two mile stretch of road that includes 1,000 feet of elevation change. I'm leaning towards GMRS or, even more likely, a PLMRS system because both allow for the possibility of repeater use (should we decide to install one). Many of my readers have suggested Meshtastic as well. I've been a Meshtastic user for about 5 months and my hesitancy could be summed up by your theme here: it's cool tech, pretty effective, but feels very Beta still. We have a wide variety of people on our road, but few electronics/radio/software hobbyists. I fear promoting Meshtastic as a solution might only lead to frustrations in the long run. My hope is that someone will make a Meshtastic device that's intuitive, reliable, and stable. Something much more plug-and-play for the average human. Again, thank you for the video--I love your channel. If you're interested in reading about my post-Helene experiences (with a focus on radio), check out this archive of my updates: qrper.com/tag/helene-aftermath/ Thank you, Thomas (K4SWL)
The problem that I see, whether they are using 2m/70cm, a pi or some other device that communicates via line of sight propagation, would be in areas that have mountainous terrain, like the Smokey Mountains is problematic. 2m VHF does travels somewhat further than 70cm UHF signals and the 900 MHz band is going to travel even less distance then either of these 2 bands. Unless someone can get a repeater to the top of a mountain, the line sight becomes an issue. Using a POTA setup could be one possible solution to this, but you still have to climb the hill and based on the devastation that NC, SC and N,GA had, this could be somewhat difficult, even then you still have to rely solely on battery power, or solar power. AUXCOM and ARES are still operating on several bands in the NC,SC, TN and GA. I am still only receiving information on 2m 146.330. I am about 150 miles south of Ashville, this setup is more than likely a temporarily linked repeater system for emergency ops only, similar to cross-band ops.
GMRS is the solution. The radios are easy to operate and easy to get up and running. Providing power and keeping them charged is straightforward. If just one member of the community can provide a high point (on a hill or has a tower), the entire community can benefit from increased or more thorough coverage via a repeater. It's a no brainer.
I have a comment.... dont built a network with these radios. Your best choice for your area is to use VHF/UHF ham radios. Then you will have a system that will work well. AND, most likely, you can talk directly to the red Cross, Sheriff, local police and even the weather services. Join your local ham club and look into joining ARES.
Good video. I'm at about 300' in the SF bay area. I've been able to see approximately 150 nodes, and I'm able to connect with many of them, some direct, and some by hoping from node to node. My longest connection so far is about 125 miles. The more nodes that come up, the better.
Thanks for the info. Our local emergency communications group is looking into supplementing GMRS and ham build-outs with Meshtastic. In addition to being concerned about 900MHz signal attenuation due to rain, we are also considering the effect that smoke particles may have on propagation, as wildfire is one of our biggest disaster concerns here in Sonoma County, California.
Most Meshtastic users in our area have not noticed any signal degradation, only thing I have noticed is that during the big solar storm we got some really far distance propagation.
@@adanufgailall meshtastic radios are operating on the same frequency by default, that's why it's so incredibly easy to get drowned out. If you have a private group using meshtastic, you can simply change the transmission frequency.
One thing the mestastic group (or any of the companies making devices) needs is to make a prefabbed per-configured solar repeater (i know you can already setup nodes as a repeater). so that you can have a device you just buy , place somewhere and turn it on to boost coverage in an area. And by solar I mean solar charging with a internal LiFe battery and a small mppt controller , the Meshtastic radio , and an enclosure that's water resistant.
I have about 20 of these kinds of sites. I've been considering how to power and shelter them. It's fairly easy to run something indoors but in a lot of cases it would be better just to have a unit that can mount on a pole or nail to a tree. A solar panel and a 7Ah 12V battery can run them forever, but this is a bit of overkill. I'd love to have the smallest solar panel possible (which probably means a bit of overkill for winter days) that manages a lithium battery with the radio. A quick design off the top of my head would have two small panels one each facing SE/SW or NE/NW for us in the underverse. 1000mAh lithium battery, the ESP does the battery management and by default it should have I/O configured or a software menu to select the function of I/O pins for some hardware like wind sensors. But just being able to remotely sense or trigger and I/O line by default is extremely handy. The case for these, I'd make them integrate the solar with the panels about a default 45deg slope. flat bottom so they could just be placed and sat on something like a ledge in an urban environment and a flat or concave back with screw hole wings so they could be secured to a wall or just cable tied to a pole. One might imagine your urban guerilla climbing some forbidden structure and only taking a few seconds to secure the payload in position and making a quick getaway. If the units can be made cheap, then people might for example crowdfund repeaters. You buy one, turn it on, drop it in a location. Next person comes along, picks it up and moves it to a better location nearby, like onto the roof of a nearby building. I can see a game of meshtastic capture the flag or traveling garden gnomes become a shitload of fun, all the while improving the coverage of the area.
We are using LoRA as part of many student projects at the university I work for. Sending data messages for various monitoring stations including road infrastructure, agricultural systems - frost-detection, robotics and such. Interesting that you had similar issues as what we had with all the different pieces of equipment out there! Look forward to more videos about this radio network.
if you are in a remote lolcation where you seem to be the only node, you should consider a repeater (not router) up as high as you can get, and connect with client or client mute devices locally. also, make a separate channel with your own key, for private comms. these private channels will use devices with the default long_fast to retransmit your messages. if you want to confirm your antennas are good, get a NanoVNA for about $65 to test the SWR.
Just bought 4 of the seeed stufio sensecap cards. I've only done bench testing so far but I'm happy with them so far. Im hoping they will help my group stay in contact when camping.
I got the T-deck plus and a Heltec V3. I managed to control Home Assistant with mine. I hope you cover that radio station interference story with your dad! I tagged you of Mastodon.
We hope to; though we've been a bit busy and between work and family obligations, haven't had a chance to get in the studio and record anything. It's an interesting situation, and my Dad has some good stories that back up some of the wild claims in the story :)
@@GeerlingEngineering I knew your father would have something interesting to say on the topic. Can't wait to hear some of his stories but obviously take care of family first. Have a great day!
@@joshlyons1005 That, in your mind, is reason enough to break the law? Burglaries are rarely, if ever, solved - would you be Ok with your place being the target? #integrity
@@JoeTomasonecalm down boomer, you also likely break small laws everyday without even knowing. Conflating this with burglary is a bit silly when you consider the severity of each
The big thing is that they're great for person-to-person short range stuff like camping, etc but in order for it to be a regional/metro-wide thing that's even remotely reliable like normal text messages, you have to work VERY hard setting up infrastructure.
Distance will vary on where you are located. I have used it here in Florida for several years, and in the past hurricane season. Using a drone to pop up to increase distance. Did short text bursts to make sure family were ok the day after. I have standardized on the hardware, so no delays and all are updated once a quarter with the latest alpha
The RAK wireless nodes are the go at the moment. They do it all, have good BT and Wifi range due to having dedicated antennas, as well as they can be solar charged, so you can set up a node on your roof, in a box with a panel and just use that as a hop for the nodes you use inside.
After watching some Meshtastic/LoRa videos over the last couple of months, I ordered one of the cheap ESP32 Heltec nodes. I got it working after a bit, after looking between LoRa projects and the Meshtastic projects running Meshtastic. I was able to connect to a few nodes up to about 10 miles away. I was very surprised to find a repeater listed as right in my neighborhood. I wasn't sure about the GPS privacy setting, as I had my location on for a little while. After playing for about an hour or so, I turned it off and put it aside for now. I appreciate the perspectives given in this video, especially about it seemly like beta. I also appreciate the perspectives on the handheld radios. I have my license, but I only have a Baofeng and lost track of the charger. I appreciate knowing that I'd do well to get a better radio to work with. Thanks for the info!
Short tests will usually fail to see lurking nodes because of how infrequently nodes beacon their info by default. So drone tests are more useful when you know your receiving end it out there, less for trolling for contacts in a short window.
A HAM technician license is not a heavy lift - APRS is very similar to how this works and you can transmit and receive over much greater distances with significantly more power - including the ISS! There's a lot more people using it too.
I can't get my friends into HAM. I got my friends into Mesh, which may bring them into radio later down the road. I can't hand them an 818 but I can give them a node and tell them to download the app.
Great video!! also, I'd recommend taking a look at the Heltxt Standalone build, it's cheaper to build with more features than buying the Tdeck. And a much easier standalone experience that lasts longer. Got a 4000mAh battery to last 6 days with Bluetooth off which is done by pressing key Fn+b combo.
Recently got into Meshtastic! It's been fun. I live in a really hilly part of Indiana and there aren't many other nodes nearby. But I'm excited to keep learning and play with my own nodes around my area. It's definitely not perfect by any means. But it's still a heck of a lotta fun.
Hilly is probably not workable for low-power high-frequency like Meshtastic. These fail immediately when line of sight is lost. No mounting in attics or windows. No lensing or reflecting through urban areas or canyons. Signal propagation is a laser beam. Whereas 5+ watts of VHF can bully its way through those conditions sometimes.
The concept is great, but in rural areas the major problem with this is the "high" frequency that limits range. If they were able to use a chanel in the CB band this problem would have been solved. End to end encryption messages that could be forwarded through other mesh nodes would be great. Kinda like a wireless TOR network for sinple communication
I've been into LORA/Meshtastic maybe a year and a half and love it. It's not the only form of emergency communications I'd want to have, but it does have its place, and it's cheap enough that anyone can get involved. I've been a licensed HAM since 1989, and can operate on pretty much all bands, including CB, GMRS, etc., but I'll always have Meshtastic. I think I have like (12) devices and I'm going to order a 'T-Deck Plus.' Maybe a couple.
During Milton Meshtastic in Pinellas county users proved that this technology worked. We were communicating and relying messages to people who had no power to communicate and send messages to loved ones via messages through meshtastic and relay
Something else I've seen from someone else's critique of Meshtastic is that, from a networking perspective, it's a giant array of wireless hubs, rather than wireless switches. This means that there is no ability to route or funnel traffic, and thus there is a natural limit to how many devices can exist on any mesh network before there are problems with devices talking over one another. Currently, the network has a hardcoded in software limit of 80 nodes. If an 81st node connects, the network drops everything from the 1st node, and to that user they're just suddenly unable to reach anything. Older devices have lower limits. I'd not be surprised if it's possible that you're seeing that with 50-ish nodes in your area, if some are a few years old and haven't been updated. This means that in an emergency situation, Meshtastic's best "Of course!" use case, it's feasible that if it became popular, any large-scale emergency situation (weather, earthquake, etc) would potentially put people into a worse situation than having no communication. Meshtastic is a great thing if you're looking for a cheap, line-of-sight, text-based communication. Beyond that it's not really got any reliable use-cases. Anything else would be better served with either long-range bluetooth/wifi/cell-service/satellite, or with a dedicated voice radio.
RAK is the only way to go. I have a RAK solar node on a mast in my backyard (using a Rokland 8dBi for the LoRa antenna, if anyone is curious), and I can easily connect to it via Bluetooth. It's about 60-80 feet away, depending on where I'm at in the house.
Meshtastic is a gateway drug to the world of radios. I started with them and have since got several radio licenses and set up some repeaters and routers. It’s really fun to mess around with. Also, if you’re using one with the drone, your best option would be setting it up as a repeater and have a separate one that you are connected to with Bluetooth.
I've not heard of this before, excellent project. Gonna get me one and start adding to the "community". Thanks Jeff and Jeff's Dad (sorry, I forget your name).
I live like 35 miles from you, and I got the message from the guy on the airplane too! That was a hoot to see. I've been thinking about trying to build some cheap solar powered units and seeing if I can get permission to attach them to some of the local water towers to boost range. Every now and again, I guess if the clouds are just right, I can see units that are farther away (~15-20 miles), but the hills near me kill how far I can go. My V3s have been getting about 30 feet on bluetooth.
I like the concept and have a couple of nodes for me and my wife to communicate, but had issues and haven't messed with it again since around May. I had more hardware issues than anything, and blew out what I assume is a zener diode when I plugged in the microscopic battery plug backwards, as it will still work but I can't charge it anymore. When I get some time after getting completely moved I do plan on getting setup better with it. I'll put up a repeater on the other side of the property that is 50' higher than the house and getting the kids one each with keyboards. We are moving to a very rural area and it is hilly so I know range won't be great but if I'm hoping for a 5 mile area with a 40' tower on the highest part of the property. Hopefully some of the points in here, especially with timestamping, get cleared up by that point.
I really want to try out Meshtastic but there's simply no nodes near me. I know I'm part of the problem by not jumping in, but as your dad says it's very "beta" for now. I think it has a future, but until the hardware and software is a bit more fleshed out, I'll have to continue keeping an eye on it. I'm in a bit of a valley and in an apartment so that really doesn't help my case either. Hopefully once I have a place that's not in a valley and I can pop up an external antenna, things will be a bit ore fleshed out.
The southern part of the Kansas City Metro has a lot of meshtastic nodes and to date I've counted over 100 received by my own node alone just sitting near the window. A few of them are set in client mode and put up on ham radio towers since this is a heavy amateur radio area. They have a weekly chat net every Friday at noon. There's even one up high somewhere in the downtown KC area. Sure would be nice to slap a solar-powered node on the top of 1102 Grand in downtown KC as that would probably cover most of the metro.
About a year ago, I had two of the heltec V3s, one at home, one in the car. I do a lot of driving throughout northern California, basically Bodega Bay to Tahoe to SLO. Aside from one contact near Ell Grove, those heltecs only ever found each other.
I’ve had 3 nodes. I live in a heavily wooded area but near a major highway. I’ve driven around with it. I haven’t had any organic connections. I think if it’s organized…. Like you handing them out to neighbors…. Putting one in a weatherproof case with a solar panel and putting it up in a tree etc…. It can be useful. But right now it’s just a development tinker toy.
I just discovered it. I bought a pair of v3s. I don't think I have the time or money to get super into it but I want to get set up so I can communicate in disaster situations. I can't wait to see how this acetate actually will do it's thing.
This is a great video. thanks guys! I'm KC9WLZ and I live across the river in Southwestern Illinois. You've got me interested in Meshtastic. I've been using a UV%R radio for many years. It's a shame if there are some repeater operators who have repeaters in the downtown St. Louis area who could get a Meshtastic nodes/repeaters up on their towers.
I have a wisblock device on a rooftop mast here in the San Francisco Bay Area. In the Meshtastic app there are 438 visible nodes. But none are very close to me, and I can't send messages to the public channel. I find the disparity between how many other nodes my node can "see" and how many it can actually communicate with (zero) to be quite frustrating. Ham radio offers a lot more potential and variety. Lately I've been playing with APRS and will replace the Meshtastic device on my mast with an internet/RF gateway (APRS iGate).
We got a denve presence in the bay area/ sacramento valley . It definatly gets different after a couple hundred nodes but higher nodes and the g2 station is a super nice node to have up high as a powerhouse node , it has an amplifier on it ;)
I got on the mesh after seeing your first video on it. I have one of the Muziworks H1 nodes. When it's working, it works well. But it has a habit of forgetting its configuration when its battery hits 0%. Some type of NVRAM corruption, possibly. That said, I've received messages relayed from over 10 miles away, so far.
My roof node is a wisblock on a 10ft pole, no battery, powered by POE with MQTT reporting to a server a local guy is running. It's on one side of the house and I can get a BT connection nearly on the other side of the house to my tablet. It's great. I wish they would fix the web interface over the network for the RAK.
I build one with a Sparkfun ESP32 red board, just to experiment. It wasn't cheap, but easy to build. I listened to the victims of the hurricane, not on LoRa of course. Very confronting. I'm from Belgium and woke up at night. It grabbed me in the gut.
In the Portland OR metro area, i typically get 50+ contacts within an hour. Jeff, put a metastatic unit on that hill near you (usinga small solar cell) and you will get contacts from dozens of miles away.
I picked op an H1 from Muzy back after your first video, and I built two more nodes, one using another Heltec v3 and the other using a Heltec Wireless Tracker. But I have noticed an odd issue with the H1 where when the battery dies, it loses its config. I haven't noticed the same on my other two so not sure what's up with the H1. I think a good addition to the H1 and others would be to add a physical switch to allow the battery to be disconnected so you can physically turn it off, or run plugged in without charging the battery. I wonder what kind of range could be had between two H1's hanging from drones? I'm about 20 miles from your father's station as the crow flies. One thing you could do with the drone flight is have one node on the ground with you that's connected to the one up on the drone via LoRa, and your phone is connected to the one on the ground with you. I have mine set up with an admin channel so I can administer and communicate with all three from the app with my phone connected to one via Bluetooth.
Hey Jeff! This is so fascinating. But I’ve watched quite a few videos about meshtastic but none of them have adequately explained just how they work. I still have no idea. You may have done this, but could you make a video that’s a primer? Like, explain it from the very ground up?
switch the node to Wi-Fi and tether to your phone's hotspot AP, more range than bluetooth. There are also UHF Meshtastic nodes 433Mhz. Here in Wa state we have mountain top nodes that go 50 miles or more.
Interesting. Even the Camper/RV Solar Panels and setting up 2 of them for 240w charging capacity, is probably JUST enough for some kind of remote operation providing no cloud cover and no snow cover. I was pondering what it would cost/take to make a remote location network of these things with a really small LiFePo4 battery. And it's like 9 1/2 hours of sunlight just for that when discharging 50%. That's tricky and it is really bulky to boot. Not sure it's a great way to make an emergency network but... maybe? 100aH battery just for reference. So I mean, if the panels are that big, you can afford to have a larger capacity battery I guess. But I was trying to just use a really small battery, but find out how big the solar cell grid would need to be to support it longer-term.
The meshtastic on the drone is just used as "relay". So for Bluetooth PB, just put an other meshtastic device with you on the ground. You'll try to rich other modules via the drone module... In Europe strange situation with Meshtastic 433MHz just in LPD (50mW free band, car keys, door remote, etc...) and also just in HAM band so with more power. I'm testing, it is curious, sometimes going through 2 building, sometimes blocked by metal coated window glass. In country side absolutely blocked if not in sight. Good video.
I was watching a Brit guy, Andy I think his name is, who has a popular YT channel. He mentioned that in the UK the network had become almost unusable because of the way Meshtastic devices communicate.
got few nodes recently, but sadly did not find anyone else with node in my hometown.. according to meshtastic map there are few nodes in the city where I live so may get to actually chat with someone there. technology looks promising, but the "beta" description is very fitting.. looking forward to seeing future developments
I was super excited to see if it would be usefull for wildfire fighting, where we might have some trucks out of range of the trunked emergency radio network, but in range of a vehicle that was.. even it just to get updated messages on the MDT, but it looks like in the middle of the bush, up and down mountains and valleys sadly isn't it's sweet spot.
Hmmm, I decided not to have fun experimenting with the units largely because I have too many projects now. I did follow Andy Kirby & Ringway Manchester's adventures. What became apparent is once the rigs became popular with lots of traffic the net became less & less reliable due to congestion. I think if I had a cabin or summer home in a remote location with some scattered about friends it would be an excellent way of sending & receiving messages. Once you get several thousand on the net, under current software, getting reliable exchanges likely is iffy.
I've bought some LORA radios and experimented with them directly just sending via "AT" commands (old style modem commands) but hadn't yet gotten further into the LoRaWAN or meshtastic.. Definitely interested in any videos though, and seeing some of these entry level radios has definitely re-sparked my interest..
Great video! I’ve purchased several different kinds of these little radios. I’m fiddling with ham band, 800 and 900 MHz frequencies. Someone else mentioned that ham radio APRS is similar, and that is true to some extent. I use that too. My wife is also a ham and we frequently get wrapped up in these fun rabbit holes! 😀
I've seen Meshtasic before! But for me it's a bit complicated to get into... I'm glad you're getting into it Jeff. Maybe you'll consider making more videos and content about Meshtastic. Maybe even a tutorial which would help me and a lot of others haha. If I have some form of tutorial and an easy-way of obtaining a prebuilt device, I would totally buy one. Anyway, hope you have a good one!
I'm enjoying my collection of Meshtastic deployments/devices. If you're in a condo with a good view, I can recommend it, but otherwise the experience may be hit or miss. I'm a geek, so this all gives me a reason to make my own antennas and to print out different cases for the parts. Not much to chat about on the public main channel; just a bunch of people yelling out politics and asking if anyone else can hear them. My goal is to connect my family members across the city, direct connect, but it's proving a bit hard. So far I need a hop or two.
The comment about directional antennas got me thinking... is there a reasonable way to run multiple nodes with complementary directional antennas and have them mesh in a sane way (I assume they won't look like one node and that's fine). Maybe 3 120 degree antennas. If they could avoid interference and mesh in a way that made sense, that could make for a cool setup.
funny just before I see this video - I had just pulled the Heltec off my shelf where it has been sitting since springtime when I got it. I just haven't had time to play with it this summer. I would like to see you test those stock antennas if you have something that goes up that high in frequency .
GMRS handhelds are $35 and support voice and can reach dozens of miles. I spent a thousand bucks on Meshtastic cases, boards, batteries, solar panels for repeaters and so forth, only to end in regret because it just doesn't work for any group spread out more than a mile or so apart. With repeaters on the rooftops you can reach out 4 miles, but handheld to repeater to repeater to handheld just didn't work. Threw it all out and switched to GMRS.
I’m curious what your thoughts are on this vs HaLow or 802.11ah for WiFi over the sub-GHz ban as this would seem to open up a lot more with respect to options. Or more sketchy Helium Lora mesh network.
Why would you expect Bluetooth to work more than 20 feet? Wasn’t it intentionally designed to be a Personal Area Network? I.e. inside your “personal space”?
I would assume the optimal case would be to have one node up high somewhere to maximize LOS, and then a second somewhere nearby or on your person. The "high" node would act as a relay to get messages to the "nearby" one, which could be the one to feed a BT client if necessary. Of course, something like the T-Deck eliminates the need for a separate client altogether, so that's definitely a more-optimal solution.
@@Yukeake100%. Spot on. This works best if you have a station on mains power with a bigger antenna high up near your home, and a personal node on your person.
Excellent video Jeff and Jeff's Dad :) We like getting constructive feedback as it helps us make things better!
We like giving it so things can get better too! The tech has a lot of promise, it's certainly a tool we're investing some time in.
@@GeerlingEngineering Simple question...If your dad would design a shtf-comm system...how would he design it???.... for example a pi that transmits data on the CB-band (rtty?)(lower but free frequency)? Would he have demands on the software, for example a system with a phonebook so you would not get spammed with url's etc etc. A nice thought experiment but could be a life-saver!
@@Peter_Enisfascinating idea! definitely worth doing... or at least trying to do! 😊🎉🎉
@meshtastic would it be a big step to get delivery receipts?
@@jonjohnson2844 Good question!
Anyway, adding asymetric cipher receently is a huge step forward. I think that delivery can be realized by particular software on receiving device (for IoT automation purposes) which will send receipt message. But this doesn't tackle receipt of messages written by users.
My college physics prof was a ham radio operator. He was into antenna design. When I took quantum mechanics from him I learned that the equations for designing antennas are the same partial differential equations as quantum mechanics.
One step away from figuring out how to send signals through subspace 😂
I was studying the equations for particle energy density in an electromagnetic field. I realized that there were equations that related to field propagation that also translated to radio, since it is of course an electromagnetic field. Pretty cool.
Mind you I am no physicist. Just fascinated with science.
I will have to explore partial differential and antenna design. I already see some fantastic correlations with other fields of study.
I mean, it is basically quantum mechanics no? Radio waves are just human-scale quantum phenomena
But yeah, it kind of drives home the point that quantum does not mean incomprehensibly small, it just means waves
For anybody who noticed the 500 feet comment, normally you can only fly a drone up to 400 feet. If you’re a part 107 pilot you can fly higher if you’re within 400 feet of a structure. Since he works at a radio station the power is higher.
Thank you for posting this. That comment had me wondering if I mis-remembered the height limit. I didn't know about the exception.
@@glabifrons It threw me off at first too. After a few seconds it came back to me that they’d discussed having part 107 at some point.
Anyone flying a drone should have to answer a few safety questions, height above ground limit should be one of them.
Yes, once you pass 400ft AGL the air checks to make sure you have a part 107 license.
😂😂😂😂
I built a solar powered unit with an 8db omni antenna. I threw a rope over a tree branch about 50' above ground and hoisted the radio to the branch. I also adjusted the settings for maximum range and I can consistently connect to my other radio at 6 miles. Lots of details left out but that's what is possible with meshtastic.
I played with these about 2 years ago and discovered that they didn't automatically reboot when power was restored, making it unreliable for solar powered remote installations. Did they fix this?
@@gnormhurst I've add another small power control chip which would send button click signal to start the device once voltage is safe, independent of the device itself. Might be a simple voltage comparator circuit.
@@gnormhurst
Hopefully they have, would love it if someone can confirm
LoRa can reach beyond the 10miles thing without breaking a sweat, if you reduce the bandwidth.
@@zazugee Unfortunately, that's not my experience. I have bandwidth set to Very_Long_Slow and the best I am able to achieve is 6 miles.
To fix the Bluetooth range on the heltec V3 all you need is a little bit of wire cut to 31mm. You desolder the little coil antenna and just solder that on. It's a massive improvement.
Hamvention 2024 in Dayton overloaded the network. There were at least over 200 nodes within the fairground and the constant rebroadcast was the biggest problem. The devs actually made changes about rebroadcast because of that both in software and default settings.
Funny because I kept getting people in the discord tell me that defcon had like 500+ nodes with "no problem"
What a timely video. I live in Swannanoa, NC, which was devastated by Helene. I'm also a ham and in our rural, remote community, we were cut off for days due to both our bridge and a significant section of our road being washed out. Fortunately, I had several VHF handy talkies and, since it was an emergency, I distributed them to neighbors and we used it to communicate when we had no other connection to the outside world. As things are starting to normalize a bit now--meaning, things are improving and we're getting used to the new "normal"--I'm exploring a more permanent off-grid radio solutions for our community of about 40 households on a two mile stretch of road that includes 1,000 feet of elevation change. I'm leaning towards GMRS or, even more likely, a PLMRS system because both allow for the possibility of repeater use (should we decide to install one).
Many of my readers have suggested Meshtastic as well. I've been a Meshtastic user for about 5 months and my hesitancy could be summed up by your theme here: it's cool tech, pretty effective, but feels very Beta still. We have a wide variety of people on our road, but few electronics/radio/software hobbyists. I fear promoting Meshtastic as a solution might only lead to frustrations in the long run. My hope is that someone will make a Meshtastic device that's intuitive, reliable, and stable. Something much more plug-and-play for the average human.
Again, thank you for the video--I love your channel.
If you're interested in reading about my post-Helene experiences (with a focus on radio), check out this archive of my updates: qrper.com/tag/helene-aftermath/
Thank you, Thomas (K4SWL)
The problem that I see, whether they are using 2m/70cm, a pi or some other device that communicates via line of sight propagation, would be in areas that have mountainous terrain, like the Smokey Mountains is problematic. 2m VHF does travels somewhat further than 70cm UHF signals and the 900 MHz band is going to travel even less distance then either of these 2 bands. Unless someone can get a repeater to the top of a mountain, the line sight becomes an issue. Using a POTA setup could be one possible solution to this, but you still have to climb the hill and based on the devastation that NC, SC and N,GA had, this could be somewhat difficult, even then you still have to rely solely on battery power, or solar power. AUXCOM and ARES are still operating on several bands in the NC,SC, TN and GA. I am still only receiving information on 2m 146.330. I am about 150 miles south of Ashville, this setup is more than likely a temporarily linked repeater system for emergency ops only, similar to cross-band ops.
GMRS is the solution.
The radios are easy to operate and easy to get up and running. Providing power and keeping them charged is straightforward. If just one member of the community can provide a high point (on a hill or has a tower), the entire community can benefit from increased or more thorough coverage via a repeater. It's a no brainer.
I have a comment.... dont built a network with these radios. Your best choice for your area is to use VHF/UHF ham radios. Then you will have a system that will work well. AND, most likely, you can talk directly to the red Cross, Sheriff, local police and even the weather services. Join your local ham club and look into joining ARES.
Good video. I'm at about 300' in the SF bay area. I've been able to see approximately 150 nodes, and I'm able to connect with many of them, some direct, and some by hoping from node to node. My longest connection so far is about 125 miles. The more nodes that come up, the better.
Thanks for the info. Our local emergency communications group is looking into supplementing GMRS and ham build-outs with Meshtastic. In addition to being concerned about 900MHz signal attenuation due to rain, we are also considering the effect that smoke particles may have on propagation, as wildfire is one of our biggest disaster concerns here in Sonoma County, California.
Most Meshtastic users in our area have not noticed any signal degradation, only thing I have noticed is that during the big solar storm we got some really far distance propagation.
Not to mention that if there is an influx of home and hobby users, it can easily drown out all of your signals, making the entire thing useless.
@@adanufgailall meshtastic radios are operating on the same frequency by default, that's why it's so incredibly easy to get drowned out. If you have a private group using meshtastic, you can simply change the transmission frequency.
I'm part of a mesh group and it's...not really impressive.
@@TexanMechanicusmore details please
Can’t wait to make my own meshtastic device! Glad to see you finally making a more in depth video on it!
They are like pringles. 1 turns into half a dozen real quick.
One thing the mestastic group (or any of the companies making devices) needs is to make a prefabbed per-configured solar repeater (i know you can already setup nodes as a repeater). so that you can have a device you just buy , place somewhere and turn it on to boost coverage in an area.
And by solar I mean solar charging with a internal LiFe battery and a small mppt controller , the Meshtastic radio , and an enclosure that's water resistant.
We need a community based map of repeaters where users can submit locations
@@-whackd honestly i'd say both are needed
i agree with all
I have about 20 of these kinds of sites. I've been considering how to power and shelter them. It's fairly easy to run something indoors but in a lot of cases it would be better just to have a unit that can mount on a pole or nail to a tree. A solar panel and a 7Ah 12V battery can run them forever, but this is a bit of overkill. I'd love to have the smallest solar panel possible (which probably means a bit of overkill for winter days) that manages a lithium battery with the radio.
A quick design off the top of my head would have two small panels one each facing SE/SW or NE/NW for us in the underverse. 1000mAh lithium battery, the ESP does the battery management and by default it should have I/O configured or a software menu to select the function of I/O pins for some hardware like wind sensors. But just being able to remotely sense or trigger and I/O line by default is extremely handy.
The case for these, I'd make them integrate the solar with the panels about a default 45deg slope. flat bottom so they could just be placed and sat on something like a ledge in an urban environment and a flat or concave back with screw hole wings so they could be secured to a wall or just cable tied to a pole. One might imagine your urban guerilla climbing some forbidden structure and only taking a few seconds to secure the payload in position and making a quick getaway. If the units can be made cheap, then people might for example crowdfund repeaters. You buy one, turn it on, drop it in a location. Next person comes along, picks it up and moves it to a better location nearby, like onto the roof of a nearby building.
I can see a game of meshtastic capture the flag or traveling garden gnomes become a shitload of fun, all the while improving the coverage of the area.
@@-whackdI mean repeaterbook would work
Just this week I learned about meshtastic and now you upload a video, it’s a sign that I need to start a new project
Mate, your pops is doing good, 35, wardrives and drone recons for nodes. Love it.
Is there any benefit besides knowing your not alone?
Love this overview! Eagerly awaiting furether meshtastic content!!!
We are using LoRA as part of many student projects at the university I work for. Sending data messages for various monitoring stations including road infrastructure, agricultural systems - frost-detection, robotics and such. Interesting that you had similar issues as what we had with all the different pieces of equipment out there! Look forward to more videos about this radio network.
if you are in a remote lolcation where you seem to be the only node, you should consider a repeater (not router) up as high as you can get, and connect with client or client mute devices locally.
also, make a separate channel with your own key, for private comms. these private channels will use devices with the default long_fast to retransmit your messages.
if you want to confirm your antennas are good, get a NanoVNA for about $65 to test the SWR.
Just bought 4 of the seeed stufio sensecap cards. I've only done bench testing so far but I'm happy with them so far. Im hoping they will help my group stay in contact when camping.
I got the T-deck plus and a Heltec V3. I managed to control Home Assistant with mine. I hope you cover that radio station interference story with your dad! I tagged you of Mastodon.
We hope to; though we've been a bit busy and between work and family obligations, haven't had a chance to get in the studio and record anything. It's an interesting situation, and my Dad has some good stories that back up some of the wild claims in the story :)
@@GeerlingEngineering I knew your father would have something interesting to say on the topic. Can't wait to hear some of his stories but obviously take care of family first. Have a great day!
@@GeerlingEngineering Yeah the 2 mile range on many of the LoRA modules about is wishful thinking!
0:23 with Ham Radio, you are NOT required to have a license if operating in an emergency, but for all other operation, yes.
@17:07
Only if your emergency communication involves an “imminent threat to life or property”.
@@JoeTomasoneits rarely if ever enforced
@@joshlyons1005 That, in your mind, is reason enough to break the law? Burglaries are rarely, if ever, solved - would you be Ok with your place being the target? #integrity
@@JoeTomasonecalm down boomer, you also likely break small laws everyday without even knowing. Conflating this with burglary is a bit silly when you consider the severity of each
Nice to see fellow St Louis people getting into the mesh!
Integrate this tech into every smartphone
I completely agree! This should become a smartphone feature, not something you need a separate device for.
The big thing is that they're great for person-to-person short range stuff like camping, etc but in order for it to be a regional/metro-wide thing that's even remotely reliable like normal text messages, you have to work VERY hard setting up infrastructure.
Distance will vary on where you are located. I have used it here in Florida for several years, and in the past hurricane season. Using a drone to pop up to increase distance. Did short text bursts to make sure family were ok the day after.
I have standardized on the hardware, so no delays and all are updated once a quarter with the latest alpha
Been a 900MHz geek since the Ricochet days (ATS300?) and I'm hugely excited about the potential of Meshtastic.
Ricochet was wayyyy faster but shorter range. Lora isn’t meant for pushing data aside from short text messages.
The RAK wireless nodes are the go at the moment. They do it all, have good BT and Wifi range due to having dedicated antennas, as well as they can be solar charged, so you can set up a node on your roof, in a box with a panel and just use that as a hop for the nodes you use inside.
Good video guys. Cool to see Father/Son working together too!
After watching some Meshtastic/LoRa videos over the last couple of months, I ordered one of the cheap ESP32 Heltec nodes. I got it working after a bit, after looking between LoRa projects and the Meshtastic projects running Meshtastic. I was able to connect to a few nodes up to about 10 miles away. I was very surprised to find a repeater listed as right in my neighborhood. I wasn't sure about the GPS privacy setting, as I had my location on for a little while. After playing for about an hour or so, I turned it off and put it aside for now. I appreciate the perspectives given in this video, especially about it seemly like beta.
I also appreciate the perspectives on the handheld radios. I have my license, but I only have a Baofeng and lost track of the charger. I appreciate knowing that I'd do well to get a better radio to work with.
Thanks for the info!
LoRa seems like an extremely useful recent radio tech. Love it c:
Short tests will usually fail to see lurking nodes because of how infrequently nodes beacon their info by default. So drone tests are more useful when you know your receiving end it out there, less for trolling for contacts in a short window.
Though if you send a message, nodes will respond and you'll "uncover" them, regardless of the default beaconing.
A HAM technician license is not a heavy lift - APRS is very similar to how this works and you can transmit and receive over much greater distances with significantly more power - including the ISS! There's a lot more people using it too.
I can't get my friends into HAM.
I got my friends into Mesh, which may bring them into radio later down the road.
I can't hand them an 818 but I can give them a node and tell them to download the app.
Minor thing - “ham” isn’t an acronym and shouldn’t be capitalized :)
@@turdferguson2863Se if you can get them into gmrs or cb first
I’m nerding out watching you guys. But keep information coming. I want to build a meshed system too. I see the amazing potential for this.
Great video!! also, I'd recommend taking a look at the Heltxt Standalone build, it's cheaper to build with more features than buying the Tdeck. And a much easier standalone experience that lasts longer. Got a 4000mAh battery to last 6 days with Bluetooth off which is done by pressing key Fn+b combo.
Recently got into Meshtastic! It's been fun. I live in a really hilly part of Indiana and there aren't many other nodes nearby. But I'm excited to keep learning and play with my own nodes around my area. It's definitely not perfect by any means. But it's still a heck of a lotta fun.
Oooh yeah, sounds fun. I've been meaning to get into meshtastic a little as well, any recommendations on where to start? :)
Hilly is probably not workable for low-power high-frequency like Meshtastic. These fail immediately when line of sight is lost. No mounting in attics or windows. No lensing or reflecting through urban areas or canyons. Signal propagation is a laser beam. Whereas 5+ watts of VHF can bully its way through those conditions sometimes.
The concept is great, but in rural areas the major problem with this is the "high" frequency that limits range. If they were able to use a chanel in the CB band this problem would have been solved.
End to end encryption messages that could be forwarded through other mesh nodes would be great. Kinda like a wireless TOR network for sinple communication
I bought 2 Heltec v3's close to a year ago, and they haven't magically unpacked and assembled themselves. Maybe one day.
I just learned about Meshtastic this week while I was researching CivTAK. This looks super interesting and I'm already looking at radio selections.
I've been into LORA/Meshtastic maybe a year and a half and love it. It's not the only form of emergency communications I'd want to have, but it does have its place, and it's cheap enough that anyone can get involved. I've been a licensed HAM since 1989, and can operate on pretty much all bands, including CB, GMRS, etc., but I'll always have Meshtastic. I think I have like (12) devices and I'm going to order a 'T-Deck Plus.' Maybe a couple.
I love meshtastic!! more with experimenting and digital ham stuff!!! I really enjoy you and your dad doing stuff, especially this meshastic stuff.
During Milton Meshtastic in Pinellas county users proved that this technology worked. We were communicating and relying messages to people who had no power to communicate and send messages to loved ones via messages through meshtastic and relay
Yay! More from my favorite father and son tech team, absolutely love you guys.
I remember when you had 1k subs...my where has the time gone? Keep it up Jeff!
Yes -- On the mesh lol but in FLAT Florida -- Hoping more pop up down here to relay .. Will have to try the drone trick :)
Something else I've seen from someone else's critique of Meshtastic is that, from a networking perspective, it's a giant array of wireless hubs, rather than wireless switches. This means that there is no ability to route or funnel traffic, and thus there is a natural limit to how many devices can exist on any mesh network before there are problems with devices talking over one another.
Currently, the network has a hardcoded in software limit of 80 nodes. If an 81st node connects, the network drops everything from the 1st node, and to that user they're just suddenly unable to reach anything. Older devices have lower limits. I'd not be surprised if it's possible that you're seeing that with 50-ish nodes in your area, if some are a few years old and haven't been updated. This means that in an emergency situation, Meshtastic's best "Of course!" use case, it's feasible that if it became popular, any large-scale emergency situation (weather, earthquake, etc) would potentially put people into a worse situation than having no communication.
Meshtastic is a great thing if you're looking for a cheap, line-of-sight, text-based communication. Beyond that it's not really got any reliable use-cases. Anything else would be better served with either long-range bluetooth/wifi/cell-service/satellite, or with a dedicated voice radio.
RAK is the only way to go. I have a RAK solar node on a mast in my backyard (using a Rokland 8dBi for the LoRa antenna, if anyone is curious), and I can easily connect to it via Bluetooth. It's about 60-80 feet away, depending on where I'm at in the house.
I've ordered the R1 kit and look forward to testing it out for backup emergency comms.
FYI, the 2.5 series firmware has strong end to end encryption options for private messaging and private shared chats.
Meshtastic is a gateway drug to the world of radios. I started with them and have since got several radio licenses and set up some repeaters and routers. It’s really fun to mess around with.
Also, if you’re using one with the drone, your best option would be setting it up as a repeater and have a separate one that you are connected to with Bluetooth.
I've not heard of this before, excellent project. Gonna get me one and start adding to the "community". Thanks Jeff and Jeff's Dad (sorry, I forget your name).
Great crossover! Love to dip a toe into the RF issues!
I live like 35 miles from you, and I got the message from the guy on the airplane too! That was a hoot to see.
I've been thinking about trying to build some cheap solar powered units and seeing if I can get permission to attach them to some of the local water towers to boost range. Every now and again, I guess if the clouds are just right, I can see units that are farther away (~15-20 miles), but the hills near me kill how far I can go.
My V3s have been getting about 30 feet on bluetooth.
I like the concept and have a couple of nodes for me and my wife to communicate, but had issues and haven't messed with it again since around May. I had more hardware issues than anything, and blew out what I assume is a zener diode when I plugged in the microscopic battery plug backwards, as it will still work but I can't charge it anymore.
When I get some time after getting completely moved I do plan on getting setup better with it. I'll put up a repeater on the other side of the property that is 50' higher than the house and getting the kids one each with keyboards. We are moving to a very rural area and it is hilly so I know range won't be great but if I'm hoping for a 5 mile area with a 40' tower on the highest part of the property. Hopefully some of the points in here, especially with timestamping, get cleared up by that point.
"RF is black magic"
Hail Satan!!!
I believe the 'real' term is PFM.
Nice review guys. It was kind of reminding me of MIT's neighbor-net (wifi mesh community networking) - -the original OLPC laptops were setup that way.
I really want to try out Meshtastic but there's simply no nodes near me. I know I'm part of the problem by not jumping in, but as your dad says it's very "beta" for now. I think it has a future, but until the hardware and software is a bit more fleshed out, I'll have to continue keeping an eye on it. I'm in a bit of a valley and in an apartment so that really doesn't help my case either. Hopefully once I have a place that's not in a valley and I can pop up an external antenna, things will be a bit ore fleshed out.
We have quite a few nodes in my home town, but we also need some high nodes to connect. Sometimes I see nodes from halfway through the country.
I've got three nodes on the mesh. There are a growing number of them around Phoenix for sure, especially in the last 2 or 3 months.
Will be on the mesh shortly. There is a local group here and it sound like a lot of fun. They are working with some HAM groups to put noded high up.
The southern part of the Kansas City Metro has a lot of meshtastic nodes and to date I've counted over 100 received by my own node alone just sitting near the window.
A few of them are set in client mode and put up on ham radio towers since this is a heavy amateur radio area.
They have a weekly chat net every Friday at noon.
There's even one up high somewhere in the downtown KC area. Sure would be nice to slap a solar-powered node on the top of 1102 Grand in downtown KC as that would probably cover most of the metro.
About a year ago, I had two of the heltec V3s, one at home, one in the car. I do a lot of driving throughout northern California, basically Bodega Bay to Tahoe to SLO. Aside from one contact near Ell Grove, those heltecs only ever found each other.
I’ve had 3 nodes. I live in a heavily wooded area but near a major highway. I’ve driven around with it. I haven’t had any organic connections. I think if it’s organized…. Like you handing them out to neighbors…. Putting one in a weatherproof case with a solar panel and putting it up in a tree etc…. It can be useful. But right now it’s just a development tinker toy.
Completely pointless then
I just discovered it. I bought a pair of v3s. I don't think I have the time or money to get super into it but I want to get set up so I can communicate in disaster situations.
I can't wait to see how this acetate actually will do it's thing.
you could always use unique network settings to make your own network to avoid problems from other users.
This is a great video. thanks guys! I'm KC9WLZ and I live across the river in Southwestern Illinois. You've got me interested in Meshtastic. I've been using a UV%R radio for many years. It's a shame if there are some repeater operators who have repeaters in the downtown St. Louis area who could get a Meshtastic nodes/repeaters up on their towers.
I have a wisblock device on a rooftop mast here in the San Francisco Bay Area. In the Meshtastic app there are 438 visible nodes. But none are very close to me, and I can't send messages to the public channel. I find the disparity between how many other nodes my node can "see" and how many it can actually communicate with (zero) to be quite frustrating. Ham radio offers a lot more potential and variety. Lately I've been playing with APRS and will replace the Meshtastic device on my mast with an internet/RF gateway (APRS iGate).
Thanks for the video, been wanting to get into meshtastic but not sure exactly what it was! Will try making some
My Meshtastic group in Birmingham, AL are mostly hams, so we're joining forces with clubs to put MT repeaters up on towers around us.
We got a denve presence in the bay area/ sacramento valley . It definatly gets different after a couple hundred nodes but higher nodes and the g2 station is a super nice node to have up high as a powerhouse node , it has an amplifier on it ;)
I got on the mesh after seeing your first video on it. I have one of the Muziworks H1 nodes. When it's working, it works well. But it has a habit of forgetting its configuration when its battery hits 0%. Some type of NVRAM corruption, possibly. That said, I've received messages relayed from over 10 miles away, so far.
My roof node is a wisblock on a 10ft pole, no battery, powered by POE with MQTT reporting to a server a local guy is running. It's on one side of the house and I can get a BT connection nearly on the other side of the house to my tablet. It's great. I wish they would fix the web interface over the network for the RAK.
I build one with a Sparkfun ESP32 red board, just to experiment. It wasn't cheap, but easy to build. I listened to the victims of the hurricane, not on LoRa of course. Very confronting. I'm from Belgium and woke up at night. It grabbed me in the gut.
In the Portland OR metro area, i typically get 50+ contacts within an hour.
Jeff, put a metastatic unit on that hill near you (usinga small solar cell) and you will get contacts from dozens of miles away.
I picked op an H1 from Muzy back after your first video, and I built two more nodes, one using another Heltec v3 and the other using a Heltec Wireless Tracker. But I have noticed an odd issue with the H1 where when the battery dies, it loses its config. I haven't noticed the same on my other two so not sure what's up with the H1. I think a good addition to the H1 and others would be to add a physical switch to allow the battery to be disconnected so you can physically turn it off, or run plugged in without charging the battery.
I wonder what kind of range could be had between two H1's hanging from drones? I'm about 20 miles from your father's station as the crow flies.
One thing you could do with the drone flight is have one node on the ground with you that's connected to the one up on the drone via LoRa, and your phone is connected to the one on the ground with you. I have mine set up with an admin channel so I can administer and communicate with all three from the app with my phone connected to one via Bluetooth.
I've also noticed the same issue where if a H1 battery dies, the config gets wiped.
Hey Jeff! This is so fascinating. But I’ve watched quite a few videos about meshtastic but none of them have adequately explained just how they work. I still have no idea. You may have done this, but could you make a video that’s a primer? Like, explain it from the very ground up?
switch the node to Wi-Fi and tether to your phone's hotspot AP, more range than bluetooth. There are also UHF Meshtastic nodes 433Mhz. Here in Wa state we have mountain top nodes that go 50 miles or more.
Interesting. Even the Camper/RV Solar Panels and setting up 2 of them for 240w charging capacity, is probably JUST enough for some kind of remote operation providing no cloud cover and no snow cover.
I was pondering what it would cost/take to make a remote location network of these things with a really small LiFePo4 battery. And it's like 9 1/2 hours of sunlight just for that when discharging 50%.
That's tricky and it is really bulky to boot. Not sure it's a great way to make an emergency network but... maybe? 100aH battery just for reference. So I mean, if the panels are that big, you can afford to have a larger capacity battery I guess. But I was trying to just use a really small battery, but find out how big the solar cell grid would need to be to support it longer-term.
Just ordered the new T-deck. I’m hoping to set up a little network around my neighborhood
The meshtastic on the drone is just used as "relay". So for Bluetooth PB, just put an other meshtastic device with you on the ground. You'll try to rich other modules via the drone module...
In Europe strange situation with Meshtastic 433MHz just in LPD (50mW free band, car keys, door remote, etc...) and also just in HAM band so with more power.
I'm testing, it is curious, sometimes going through 2 building, sometimes blocked by metal coated window glass. In country side absolutely blocked if not in sight.
Good video.
I just love ❤ 2 great engineers chatting that happen to be father and son 🏆🤩
I was watching a Brit guy, Andy I think his name is, who has a popular YT channel. He mentioned that in the UK the network had become almost unusable because of the way Meshtastic devices communicate.
Great info. I'm still using 40ch CB. Still works perfectly.
I'd like to see a bit more about use cases, and how these could be utilized in both emergency and non-emergency situations.
I really like that you have to use the phone - its so techy, but i see why people love an all in one solution
got few nodes recently, but sadly did not find anyone else with node in my hometown.. according to meshtastic map there are few nodes in the city where I live so may get to actually chat with someone there.
technology looks promising, but the "beta" description is very fitting.. looking forward to seeing future developments
I was super excited to see if it would be usefull for wildfire fighting, where we might have some trucks out of range of the trunked emergency radio network, but in range of a vehicle that was.. even it just to get updated messages on the MDT, but it looks like in the middle of the bush, up and down mountains and valleys sadly isn't it's sweet spot.
Eyy, he’s a ham! Good summary mate I felt very much the same here, glad I’m not the only one.
Cheers from vk6
Hmmm,
I decided not to have fun experimenting with the units largely because I have too many projects now. I did follow Andy Kirby & Ringway Manchester's adventures. What became apparent is once the rigs became popular with lots of traffic the net became less & less reliable due to congestion.
I think if I had a cabin or summer home in a remote location with some scattered about friends it would be an excellent way of sending & receiving messages. Once you get several thousand on the net, under current software, getting reliable exchanges likely is iffy.
Im in SWVA and ive got around 80 nodes and can send messages "reliably" thanks to people putting nodes on the tops of nearby mountain tops!
I've bought some LORA radios and experimented with them directly just sending via "AT" commands (old style modem commands) but hadn't yet gotten further into the LoRaWAN or meshtastic.. Definitely interested in any videos though, and seeing some of these entry level radios has definitely re-sparked my interest..
Great video! I’ve purchased several different kinds of these little radios. I’m fiddling with ham band, 800 and 900 MHz frequencies. Someone else mentioned that ham radio APRS is similar, and that is true to some extent. I use that too. My wife is also a ham and we frequently get wrapped up in these fun rabbit holes! 😀
I sent my heltec v3 up on my drone. I had a problem with my phone connecting to the node. What results did you have?
My Motorola Talkabout with blue tooth text over radio app works completely off grid and they cost 50 bucks and send text 15 miles line of sight.
Two other spots you could stress test: Hamfest in Dayton in May and Def Con
I've seen Meshtasic before! But for me it's a bit complicated to get into...
I'm glad you're getting into it Jeff. Maybe you'll consider making more videos and content about Meshtastic. Maybe even a tutorial which would help me and a lot of others haha.
If I have some form of tutorial and an easy-way of obtaining a prebuilt device, I would totally buy one.
Anyway, hope you have a good one!
I'm enjoying my collection of Meshtastic deployments/devices. If you're in a condo with a good view, I can recommend it, but otherwise the experience may be hit or miss. I'm a geek, so this all gives me a reason to make my own antennas and to print out different cases for the parts. Not much to chat about on the public main channel; just a bunch of people yelling out politics and asking if anyone else can hear them. My goal is to connect my family members across the city, direct connect, but it's proving a bit hard. So far I need a hop or two.
The comment about directional antennas got me thinking... is there a reasonable way to run multiple nodes with complementary directional antennas and have them mesh in a sane way (I assume they won't look like one node and that's fine). Maybe 3 120 degree antennas. If they could avoid interference and mesh in a way that made sense, that could make for a cool setup.
funny just before I see this video - I had just pulled the Heltec off my shelf where it has been sitting since springtime when I got it. I just haven't had time to play with it this summer. I would like to see you test those stock antennas if you have something that goes up that high in frequency .
GMRS handhelds are $35 and support voice and can reach dozens of miles. I spent a thousand bucks on Meshtastic cases, boards, batteries, solar panels for repeaters and so forth, only to end in regret because it just doesn't work for any group spread out more than a mile or so apart. With repeaters on the rooftops you can reach out 4 miles, but handheld to repeater to repeater to handheld just didn't work. Threw it all out and switched to GMRS.
In Germany we have some people using (or experimenting) with meshtastic too.
I hope we get more people using this and a lot of bugs can be fixed soon
Which device do you use in Germany?
I’m curious what your thoughts are on this vs HaLow or 802.11ah for WiFi over the sub-GHz ban as this would seem to open up a lot more with respect to options. Or more sketchy Helium Lora mesh network.
Why would you expect Bluetooth to work more than 20 feet? Wasn’t it intentionally designed to be a Personal Area Network? I.e. inside your “personal space”?
I would assume the optimal case would be to have one node up high somewhere to maximize LOS, and then a second somewhere nearby or on your person. The "high" node would act as a relay to get messages to the "nearby" one, which could be the one to feed a BT client if necessary. Of course, something like the T-Deck eliminates the need for a separate client altogether, so that's definitely a more-optimal solution.
@@Yukeake100%. Spot on. This works best if you have a station on mains power with a bigger antenna high up near your home, and a personal node on your person.
There are 3 classes of BT:
Class 1: 100 mW (20 dBm), 100 meters (300 ft)
Class 2: 2.5 mW (4 dBm), 10 meters (33 ft)
Class 3: 1 mW (0 dBm), 1 meter (3 ft)
@@Hidyman Thanks for the info!