I used to be an NTRP rater. You guys are NOT 3.0 players. 3.0 players cannot consistently keep a rally, force a stronger serve , hit with consistent topspin ...shall i go on? Are you guys just looking for comments?
NTRP is so weird. It says a recreational player playing 3 times a week can get to 3.0. That's a lot of tennis, and one would hope that footwork and stroke development would reach the level illustrated in the video if someone plays that often.
@@charlesfisher3983 exactly. It’s basically battle of sandbaggers. I got DQ’ed from 3.0 in second round playoff (regional, sectional, whatever it’s called), and my teammates told me they played several better players than me in next round. And that was still not even nationals
4.0 maybe even 4.5 for the guy in grey. - power producing back hands, consistency even in high pressure situations and at odd body angles, ability to produce powerful returns from medium to high paced balls, varied and aggressive services, etc. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A 3.0
I am currently a 3.0 player here in Texas and am currently ranked 6th in tournament rankings in my section. Based on this video, I can say that you may be playing below your weight class. You two really seem to know what you are doing in this video. There are definitely very strong 3.0 players at national tournaments. My team made it to nationals in 2018 out of the Texas section. The thing is, I never encountered players with stroke quality as good as yours seem to be in either singles or doubles. I am considered a very strong 3.0 and will be playing up to 3.5 in the coming new season. If you haven't yet, I suggest you do the same. Always strive for improvement. You will develop terrible habits if you keep playing below the level you are capable of competing at. Good luck to you both!
+Arnie T Maybe in your area, but not here. The main point I'm trying to get across is that for each level, there has to be REALLY good players to compete at the national level, and that is who we are. Could we win and hang with the some 3.5s or some 4.0s, sure we can, but we enjoy competing against the nation's best 2.5 and 3.0 players.
@@rolofitness9783 " we enjoy competing against the nation's best 2.5 and 3.0 players." You mean you are sandbaggers who just enjoy winning titles and getting the feeling of being the best instead of actually competing against those of similar skill consistently. Pathetic is what you are
Hey!!! I love all the DRAMA!! I entered a small Hawaii tournament last year and won at 2.5. I've been practicing and gotten a lot better and this year will compete at 3.0. I had come across this video a couple of times and felt a bit discouraged in that I didn't feel I was quite up to your level. Upon reading all the comments I feel relieved!
"Best example of 3.0"? Are you fishing for compliments? This is possibly the worst example of 3.0 and vastly discouraging for any real 3.0. You're easily both 4.0 as a minimum.
+situazionauta There have been countless comments here saying how true this video is to a really competitive 3.0 tennis video, so you're free to your opinion, but many others here disagree with your outlook.
To be honest, I think you were posting this video looking for some love/complements, kinda like skinny girls who take selfies in bikinis and say 'omg i need to get in shape lol' knowing that they will get comments like 'don't say that, you're beautiful!', 'you look gorgeous, what are you talking about?' Hoping you feel good about yourself after posting your 3.0 tennis video :)
You say that but the comments are split between "this is an accurate video" and "this is not 3.0". I just wanted to post this video to show people what really competitive 3.0 tennis looked like.
Im afraid this is 3.0. The tennis world is big. For this level play it should take 4-6 months to get to. I think people are likely to think themselves higher than lower.
Something is off. Are you trolling for comments? No other commenters agree with your rating. Form and shot making is 4.0 for mid Atlantic section, unless you break down horribly against retrievers or in longer matches, your match play is at least 3.5 (for our area). Maybe everyone in your area is playing down. ??? How do you perform vs other 3.0s in singles? How do your regional singles players do at nationals?
+satjiwan Well, we typically win more than we lose in the 3.0 singles, but the matches are always very close. Competition here in Texas is extremely high. What may be 4.0 singles in your state is more like 3.0 down here. My buddy and I though are nationally ranked for 2.5. Again, just like the other posters, your higher rating suggestion is very flattering! Thanks!
+satjiwan Texas is deep but really nothing compared to other sections like florida,cal, and its not like they win every usta national either... No they arn't cheating the guy with the one hander had a 3.0 or weaker backhand but streaks of 4.0 which may be why it seemed higher than 3.0.. to say 2.5 though? that's a bloody joke.
+Jack Smith Yes, thank you for clarifying Jack. But to say we are nationally ranked 2.5 is not too far fetched. We are examples of what the top guys at 2.5 in our nation play at, that is what I'm trying to get at here. We aren't your typical 2.5 players you see at your local park, we compete at a very high level for our rating.
This is not NTRP 3.0 . And you mentioned in a comment reply that you play 2.5 tennis in TX. Something is terribly off. You’re easily 4.0, probably can hang with a 4.5, in this video.
12/14/19: I have practiced my ass off for 3 years. I got a ball machine and practice AT LEAST 3 times a week. I was practicing backhands and volleys and approach shots and footwork and strategy via TH-cam. I then decided I would practice nothing but forehands and have been working on nothing but my forehand emulating Nadal's shot. I want to play in tournaments with a world class amateur forehand. Remember, I have hardly ever played against people...maybe 50 games total with buddies through the years. I have zero serve but will practice my serve after I get my forehand a little more money. So I looked at USTA ranking requirements for the first time today and I looked at ALL the USTA videos that show proficiencies for 2.5 up to 5.0 players and I was feeling good about having a 3.0 game but with a 4.0 forehand that I was sure was going to have me on top of the podium from day one and then I see these two 3.0's and I was absolutely deflated as I saw them doing serve plus 1 with precision and I saw them pushing and pulling and doing Nadal's plays and rallying 7 or 8 balls when even the pros only average 4.9 shots per point in competition. It wasn't until I read the comments that I realized the guys playing this match and portraying themselves as 3.0's have some kind of mental condition where they get off on pretending they are god's gift to low level tennis. If I were these guys I would want to raise my rankings regularly so I could play against people at my own level so I could lose and feel like I tried my best or win and not feel I robbed my opponent. Change the title of this tennis blasphemy to "BEST EXAMPLE OF USTA 4.0" or take it the hell off TH-cam where it serves to discourage good people who want to play a game against opponents of comparable abilities. This video gets two thumbs down and two middle fingers up...
dont get to down about it mate. They were clearly fishing for compliments. I like the way you elaborated on your anger towards them. Dont let it deflate you, let it motivate you to train hard and be better than them. Two thumbs down two middle fingers up, one head high hahaha
while those guys may be better than 3.0 (I wouldn't know, according to the "official" equivalence sheet and my rating on my country I should be a 2.0 but people who watched a video of me playing on tennis warehouse said I could be a 3.0), don't imagine that you can get a 3.0 game without playing other players. And I'm sure that you don't have a 4.0 forehand. Play others, film yourself, and stay modest. Video often seems disappointing when compared to real life perception !
If you read what a 3.0 is on the usta website it is not this. It doesn't matter where you live. The rating system is universal. These guys are above average 3.5. Not 4.0. Plus all we are seeing is the highlights of an edited video. Keep that in mind.
I'm new at getting into tennis and have only been playing for 9 months but have played basketball and softball at state tournament levels. From all of the other videos I have seen with ratings, I would say these gentlemen are a solid 4.0. I understand how some people in tournaments may sand bag a bit to get into winning a tournament that may be a bit below their level (all sports are the same way at the amateur level). Good show, gentlemen!
LMAO if you are playing USTA at 3.0 then you exemplify what is wrong with the system. I hope your hollow wins make you feel good, those plastic trophies are worth so much! You are both 3.5 at minimum and would likely be successful at 4.0. FYI I've been playing USTA for 10+ years in Texas. Currently bouncing between 4.0-4.5 every year.
+Chris Noblett Maybe in your opinion and based on your area. The main point I'm trying to get across is that for each level, there has to be REALLY good players to compete at the national level, and that is who we are. Could we win and hang with some 3.5s or some 4.0s, sure we can, but we enjoy competing against the nation's best 2.5 and 3.0 players.
+Rolo Fitness Your post validates exactly what I was trying to say. Instead of competing at the level you should, you enjoy competing at lower levels in order to make nationals and "win". In reality you are winning at nothing as competing against inferior players is meaningless and shallow. In my area? I've played all over Texas in tournaments and at sectional playoffs. There is no area that has true 2.5/3.0 players that play like you. There is no pride is saying "I made 2.5/3.0 nationals" knowing you are a much higher level player than that. LOL have fun explaining that. "Hey I beat a bunch of beginners at tennis!!" Learn to compete and push yourself to be better. Play at your level, even if it does not mean you will win all the time. Have some character.
+Chris Noblett Then why don't you go out to every National tournament and tell every single player that? To me, I have fun playing in these National tournaments, I like traveling with friends and having that extra pressure on me. I don't boast to anyone in person about playing 2.5/3.0 nationals, It's just a fun hobby that myself and my team share. That is all. You're taking this so personally. Just relax and do you, man. I'll also note that I don't always win my matches at nationals. There are people, especially from California and Florida, that are on par, or even better than I am at these National tournaments so I'm never always destroying my opponents, the matches are very close.
+Rolo Fitness I understand that it is that way at nationals and everyone needs to do it in order to "compete". I just think its completely undermines the entire USTA philosophy and is a poor reflection of peoples self character that they will essentially cheat in order to win a meaningless title. I've made it to the finals of Texas sectionals several times and have never felt like everyone was playing "under" their level. There are always a few people on each team that are suspect but I have never run across an entire team trying to do it.
+Chris Noblett In his defense, one thing I've noticed is that people don't go strictly off of the USTA definitions for ratings. For example, in my area teaching pros (albeit slightly older in their 40s/50s) play at 4.0 while guys who have played tennis for years and may have played in high school/college (and are now in their mid 30s+) are playing 3.5. According to NTRP, I should be playing at a 4.0 level, yet I get consistently beaten by 3.5s and therefore I play in 3.0.
2.5/3.0 are still learning decent strokes. Meanwhile, red shirt is doing consistent kick serves, while blue hat's forehand has enough topspin to return the ball on the baseline.
***EDIT***: Revisiting this 6 years later. I change my stance to mid/high-level 3.5. Hey man, great video. Just wanted to let you know not to listen to all the comments saying you are sandbagging or whatever. I play 3.0 in Virginia and this is exactly what it looks like. I tried playing at 3.5 and was getting beat very consistently just like you said would happen to you; they were more consistent (especially on return of serve) and were a step higher in technique.
Definitely not 3.0 in my (Mid-Atlantic) region. Strong 3.5. I was a 3.0 captain for two years and a 3.5 captain for four. Too consistent and groundstrokes are just too good for 3.0.
+Johnny Grant I appreciate the kind words Johnny, maybe one day we will be at that rating, but for now, we have a long ways to go to climb the ladders in our state to that ranking. Thanks
I'm a club player from Columbus Ohio and have been professionally rated at 3.5. I haven't played in USTA but I've hit with 3.0 to 4.0 players. Given what I've seen in your video, you are at a solid 3.5. I think your comment on playing at a national level and being ranked at 2.5 seems off to me. There are many types of players. Some like to be challenged so they play opponents who are better than them, others however like to win. What happens is when a solid 4.0 keeps getting beat, he would go down a level and be dominant at 3.5. A 3.5 level gets beat because he is playing a true 4.0, so he goes down a level and so on. The problem I see is that there is no one true measuring stick here. Do organizers at the National level rate you on the spot or do they just ask which level you want to play? People play at a level they are comfortable with so my guess is that at the National level, most of your opponents are really 3.0 to 3.5. Here is the official description of a 2.5 from the USTA website. 2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak. This player can sustain a slow rally with other players of same ability. And this is the 3.5 description 3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles. You guys are definitely a solid 3.5.
I'm confused. I'm a UK club player and interested in how you grade amateur players over in the US. I was watching some 4.5 guys playing and they didn't seem to be hitting much better than the 2 players in this vid. Very impressive standard of amateur tennis in the US though. I can see why your country has produced so many great pros.
if this is 3.0, u r talking major sandbagging! :) There're certain things you can't fake easily, look at the footwork esp. the split steps - very nicely done. Also, the one-handed backhand - formwise at least, is a 4.5 You must have got some very good lessons. Have fun!
+David Du Quite simply because I don't want to give out personal information (name and specific city) to random strangers on the internet. People have obviously gotten personally offended over this video and "hate" the content because they feel it is their civil duty to do so. If you take a look at the comments, there is a good number of people who say "This is a correct rating for this level of play, etc" and then you get the people who say "What? No way this is 3.0, blah blah blah", therefore there are two sides to this. Believe what you want..
Consistent depth of ground strokes, directional control, mostly hit with full swing, kick serve (from the grey) and heavy first serve (out of a well-formed swing) from the red, drop shot accuracy and disguise, court coverage, and OK net play. This is not 3.0. More like 4.0, or may be even more if match-tough.
I would say the red shirt should probably be ranked higher. Great slices, decent kick serve, consistent rallies, and decent control. I'd say his "weakness" would be his athleticism.
NTRP PLAYER RATING SCALE 2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak. This player can sustain a slow rally with other players of same ability. 3.0 This player is consistent when hitting medium pace shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks control when trying for directional intent, depth, or power. 3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles. You guys are easy 3.5. On the cusp of 4.0.
If you all aren't dominating (winning 4 out of 5 matches at 3.0 Spring league) then you're close to about the right level. You should be pounding all 2.5s at any local or state tournament. Once you get to zero Ls the computer will tell on you and your on your way up to 3.5. Should be winning 1/3 to half, if you "compete as you hit". Thanks for the video.
depends what part of the country you are in.. Im a pro in FL (which is usually sandbagged a full point below the rest of the country) and I see all kinds of things... two 3.0s hitting a live ball would have a hard time keeping a sustained rally accurately down the middle. 3.5s can keep a little more control selecting shots, placement, and 4.0s can usually stroke OK from one part of the court but usually make alot of errors when moving/playing points. You both have some stroke development and can serve, drop shot somewhat ect... Closer to 4.0 for sure.
definitely playing at a higher level than a 3.0, I mean I am a 3.0 and my groundstrokes are consistent, but not so much as the shot placement here. would love to know where this court is at, beautiful atmosphere to play in under the lights like that.
This was shot during the Christmas season, so our local tennis club had lights put up for the festive spirit! It was really distracting to play though!
To be honest, they are kinda 3.0. I know a lot of people are mad that they are saying 3.0 but 4.0 and 4.5 players tend to have a little more of a weapon of a forehand and backhand. Sure they CAN be consistent but their footwork is less than impressive for 4.0 players.
NTRP LEVEL: 3.0 This player is fairly consistent when hitting medium-paced shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks execution when trying for directional control, depth, pace or altering distance of shots. Most common doubles formation is one up, one back. Potential limitations: consistency when applying or handling pace; difficulty handling shots “outside of their strike zone”; can be uncomfortable at the net. These player are above this level..
I have seen videos from players who actually play 4.0 tournaments and it is very comparable to what you show us here, although I must contend that I am used to seeing balls fly a tad faster on average in such footage. You're both ready for something more challenging -- attend a 4.0 event, just for fun and see for yourself what happens.
A decent 3.5 in mid Atlantic cities . If you think you are 3.0 , then you are modest and good thing for your mindset and can always improve .. definitely I like these videos more than self proclaimed 4.0s who are actually a 3.0
+Johnny Grant No, it's okay. They assess your record every year, so if you had a bad first year and have a stellar second year, they'll look at simply your second year.
+Rolo Fitness Well, yes you're right - I've been playing for many years and also coach. I also make a point of studying TH-cam video clips for my own improvement. This last Winter my footwork was getting lazy in the cold weather and as a result I was hitting the ball late, too close to my body and I thought I could get away with it, just using strength but poor technique. I've paid the price - now I have a painful arm and upper shoulder. For the time being I can only manage soft rallies with beginners and can't play hard hitters.
+Tony07UK Yes, great point. It's all mental in the sense that we think, "Aw, we can arm the ball and not have to get our footing in the right place" but then we miss after the third or fourth shot, but when we focus on the footwork, it almost subconsciously focus more on your follow through, and that may help the rest of our game. You should put up some videos on here!
havent played tennis since a teen, want to get back into it and join some tournaments for my skill level, i think im 2.5-3.0 but would probably get skunked by both of you, is it better to join a 3.0 tourney and do bad or a 2.5 and do good? i dont want to overestimate either and get embarassed at 3.0 lol any advice?
Hmm, I'd say to go play a Non-Sanctioned tournament at 3.0 and see how you do. Those tournaments are usually local and the strong 3.0 players don't typically play in those, and see how you do. But note, we both are very competitive 3.0 players, not your average city park 3.0 players, in essence, this is the best that you're going to get for a 3.0 tennis player, so know that there are thousands of other 3.0 players that are worse than we are. So yeah, enter a local tournament at 3.0 and see how you do, and then adjust from there. Just don't enter a Sanctioned tournament just yet..
+Rolo Fitness Against him, I would try to hit it flat and deep to take time away from his forehand because he has a big backswing and will tend to mistime it if he is rushed. Slicing deep would also cause him to float more forehands because of the grip since he cannot drive through it as much. Coming to the net off these shots would also be good. You have a very nice back court game.
Yes, I try to come to the net when I can, I just always have a problem with positioning and going on an angle depending where you hit the approach shot.. I always get caught in the wrong spot!
Very nice video. Your playing level is better than most 3.0s that I've seen. It's also rare to see someone below the 3.5 with a kick serve. If you're looking for an easy way to improve. I would recommend coming over the forehand more often. Slicing the forehand will get you into hot water when you play against the higher levels. Otherwise, nice job. Hope you guys have fun developing your games.
+Alex Zukosvky That's nice of you man, we could maybe play 3.5 in other states, but currently, we are strong 2.5, or low 3.0 in our state and nationally speaking.
+Rolo Fitness Lies. Transparent lies. This ain't even 3.5. This is what 3.5 players THINK they look like before they see themselves on video. This is clearly two players who are at least 4.0 trolling youtube.
3.5 NTRP - "This player has achieved stroke dependability with directional control on moderate shots, but still lacks depth, variety and the ability to alter distance of shots. The effective use of lobs, Overheads, approach shots, and volleys is limited. This player is more comfortable at the net, has improved court awareness, and is developing teamwork in doubles." 4.0 NTRP - "This player has dependable strokes with directional control and the ability to alter depth of shots on both forehand and backhand sides during moderately paced play. This player also has the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots, and volleys with success. This player occasionally forces errors when serving. Points may be lost due to impatience. Teamwork in doubles is evident". I would suspect the players are between 3.5 and 4.0. I've also seen self rated players who rate themselves are 3.0 smash everyone in the tournament and the computer bumps them to 3.5 or even 4.0.
Definite sandbaggers. If they were playing at 2.5 last year that is just sad. The drop shots the big guy in red was hitting are 4.0 quality at minimum.
+Alex Startzel Maybe in the state you play in, this would be a higher level, but in our state, this is a high 2.5, low 3.0 type of tennis playing. It's tough!
+Alex Startzel You're delusional if you think that a 3.0 in Florida, Texas, or California, is the same as a 3.0 in Delaware. It is a NATIONAL rating program, but it really varies on the level of players. There's a reason why teams from the three states I listed above are always in the top 3 of teams winning Nationals for their division.
+Rolo Fitness Texas is notorious for cheating, but I always thought it was a bit of an exaggeration. However, this video shows two guys who are clearly high level 3.5s/low level 4.0s. So if these are the guys playing 2.5 or 3.0 Texas really does have an issue with systematic cheating.
I didn’t know what this rating bullshit was but looks like I’m a freaking 3.0 and above and I’ve only played recreationally when I was kid. Time to dust off the racquets 3 decades later. 😣
if you play in a 4.0 league, you'd seldom see players better than this...just for fun video I'm sure...looking for some responses...all good, enjoyed watching!
+hailmurray Well that's very nice of you, but unfortunately, in my state, this is very strong for 2.5 and middle ground for 3.0. I wish we could play in a 4.0 league...Maybe someday!
I'm just going to say to you doubters, read the descriptions of the ratings. During meaningful points play, they didn't have the placement and consistency when under any amount of pressure. At this level, while occasionally, constructed points are won, it was mostly about who had the consistency and control. Don't get me wrong, they had very nice looking strokes on display during warm up and when receiving comfortable balls in the points. As do many of you, I gather. But in the heat of a match, when tight, they couldn't exert their will on what the ball did. There are plenty of examples on other tennis channels who have way uglier shots but deserve this rating or higher because they are able to make the ball do what they want, in the pressure of a match. The rating system isn't an aesthetics rating, but a match performance rating.
So after reading a lot of comments, I get that ratings may differ in regions/cities and such (though, that's a bit problematic because there is a definition of the ratings, it's not supposed to be relative)... How do you guys join a competition at 2.5 rating? who allows that someone who can play at a 3.5 rating, plays in a competition against 2.5 people? Isn't that going against the ratings' definitions, making the bar higher for each level? because if casual play 3.0 cannot compete at a 3.0, then the competing 3.0 is not really a 3.0 level if you follow official definitions.. according to this www.usta.com/Adult-Tennis/USTA-League/ntrp/ You are competiting (and winning unless everyone does the same) against those 2.5 who are basically learning to play: NTRP LEVEL: 2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going when receiving the ball, although movement and recovery are not in sync. Can sustain a rally of slow pace with other players of similar ability and is beginning to develop strokes. This player is becoming more familiar with the basic positions for singles and doubles. This player is ready to play social matches, leagues and low-level tournaments. Potential limitations: grip weaknesses; not attempting full swing on serve; inconsistent toss on serve; limited transitions to net.
Well, playing at a casual level compared to playing at a highly competitive level is very different. There's pressure and nervousness that makes the highly competitive competitions way more difficult than playing at your local park with a buddy on a random Wednesday night.
My coach who used to be ATP pro told me Im inbetween 3.0 to 3.5. Basically these guys are on same level as I am, though their form is worse their game is quite on par. I wouldnt be surprised if they beat me on their good days. They are high 3.0, so quit crying a river, ppl.
that is a big loop on the forehand and your backhand prep is a bit late--extend the shot on the backhand side. you can hit it though. 3.0? but you have backhands? I thought 3.0's don't have backhands--but is the level that much harder now
+nighttrain7404 I appreciate the words NightTrain. However HTP does have a point about our strokes being late, trying to work on it. We both appreciate all tips from everyone.
+Rolo Fitness this is 3.0? You guys look pretty good. I haven't seen usta for like 12 years now no wonder people complain. And I meant no disrespect earlier--you guys look young and on the way up. Fight on
+Hawaii Tennis Pro Yeah, non-taken! This is high quality 3.0 tennis, nationally speaking... Could we beat the average 4.0? Sure we can... And some day, when we think we can compete on the national level for 3.5, we'll move up and keep progressing. Love your videos by the way, watch them all the time!
I was going to say this is finally an accurate level assesment for a tennis video on TH-cam. This is indeed 3.0 tournament level play. A little more consistency would get you to 3.5. The guy in Red has good strokes and tall, but too slow
Rate yourself whatever you'd like, But if you can play up you're only doing yourself a favor. You'll get better way faster losing to 3.5's and 4.0's with pace than winning most of your 3.0 matches.
+Skyler Thomas Check out Robert Builder's post. It explains everything. Every single player in the 2.5/3.0 National tournaments beats the average 3.5s and 4.0s. And National 4.0 players beat your average 4.5, some 5.0 players, that's how it all works.
+Rolo Fitness That's fair. Do you win money from these national tournaments? I imagine you only get one year playing these tournaments before they bump you up anyway. No hate, just know that all the poor 3.0s watching your video are having their dreams crushed thinking this is "The best example of 3.0 tennis". Ha.
+Skyler Thomas This is exactly what the title states. This is the best example of the highest form of 3.0 tennis in the Nation. I think the average 3.0 players know that this isn't how average 3.0 players play. No money won from these national tournaments besides free string from smaller tennis companies, but its not about the money, its about trying to win as a team in the National setting. AND no, there are ways to keep playing National tournaments every year and not get bumped up, which I won't discuss obviously. You do you and I'll do me. Stop making this more serious than it needs to be.
+Rolo Fitness "which I won't discuss, obviously"??!? So you're acknowledging that there are ways to game the system so you don't get bumped. Are you also saying that since you play nationally with your 2.5 team every year that you are good at gaming the system?
Guy in red seems m9re on a 3.5 level and guy in blue hat seems more like a 4.0. I play in SD and everyone here plays the ranking systems. I 0layed one 4.0 league and won most matches and then one doubles tournament and boom....bumped to 4.5...damn it. Haha. keep up the practicing and the guy in red has an extremely whipped forehand
How long did it take you guys to get to this level? You guys looked very good. You guys looked very controlled, not like many other so called 3.0s on youtube. I really like how you guys are playing within yourself and not trying to crush the ball every time. The backhand follow through and extension looked great; just need to prep earlier, there were some back swings that were not there until the ball hit the ground, a bit too late Imo. Maybe you guys can rally and call out your shots before they cross the net, that way the early prep will be ingrained on your swings. On the forehands, you partner wasn't hitting very hard, you have tons of time, I would say go full close stance on those, save the open stance for when you get rushed. I also saw a very nice and controlled volley at the end of the video. Very impressive guys, keep it up.
+xieulong We've both been playing on and off our whole lives, so quite a bit. Footwork and better prepping is 100% what we both need to work on, but we are getting there! On my partner's forehands, it doesn't look like it's coming fast, but with his topspin, the reaction time isn't as slow as you'd think, but maybe that's a footwork issue all in itself. But anyways, thanks for the tip! We both play 2.5 tennis in Texas.
i only started playing usta this past year, but based on what i've seen so far these guys seem pretty on par with strong 3.0's, at least in NYC region. It seems 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 (and probably the other levels) are very broad spectrums filled with players that could be super weak or super strong for their level. I've been playing at 3.5 and these two seem like they could play at that level if they wanted - but would be on the weaker end. I've also spectated and played with plenty of strong 3.0's that have the same technique and consistency as these guys, some with more power and some with more angles. i do see some people's points that you should force yourself to rate up and not down to truly get better, but that also only works to a certain extent. If you are getting creamed in 3.5 or 4.0, you won't see much improvement. Playing close matches with people of similar level will drastically improve your mental toughness and need for consistency, which are really the key requirements to be a solid competitive player. it's good to see what the national level of play for 3.0 is, thanks a lot for posting guys and keep up the great work!
to the guy in the federer cap: on the deep or fast balls you take you r racket back at a good time, but you hold it back there until the ball hits the groung. if you start your swing earlier like before the ball hits the ground, it might help you out a bit. anyways your a great player, id say 3.5 easily. defenutly better than me. cheers
Are you guys trying your hardest? Because if you are, then this does not look like usta 3.0. I play first doubles for my high school team, and that is the highest level at which I have ever played. Never played in a USTA tournament, and I can hit serves up to 115 mph (but usually in the low 90's) and ground strokes up to 95 on the forehand and 80 on the backhand. Only once have I ever had my serve broken. On a good day, I can play a 4 hour match without getting tired. I played my longest ever match in July of last year (I beat my friend 6-2 6-4 5-7 6-3 in 3h 33m; this is the time I was broken), and I have become much better since then. Judging by some of the other comments, 3.0 is a much higher level than what you have shown. Either that or I would be a 4.0 if I played in a USTA tournament.
yeah right..a 3.0 (red shirt) hitting with semi or full western (or somewhere in between) forehand grip and the other guy, hitting one-handed backhand crosscourt and down the line..hehe
WTF this is a joke. The serves, constant topspin forehands, one handed back hands, drop shots, easily 3.5 and closer to 4.0. They are trolling us. It's a bit hilarious that 99.9% of the comments are " no way you're 3.0" yet he still think he's 3.0
This is most definitely NOT 3.0 tennis. I am a 3.0 and the consistency is through the roof in this video. I would say just based on this video you are at minimum 3.5. If this is only video captured meant as a highlight film showing only positive play, then I can understand the confusion by other comments. Good video though. Those drop shots were nasty ones.
I hate to pile it on, but I agree with every commenter here. I play in mid florida and you both would be 4's or at least 3.5's here. Based on the fact that you are getting comments from across the country that are consistent I'd have to say the discrepancy is how you are being ranked locally. They must be doing it incorrectly.
The guy in the grey jumper has a good consistent backhand with good depth, and both players can keep a moderate rally going, but the foot speed and techniques of ground-strokes still needs to be worked on a fair bit.
Mm mm, not 2.5 or 3.0. You guys are easily could be one of the top 3.5 players in my section and are more likely 4.0s. In fact you'd beat some 4.5s in my section, not a lot, but a few. This is definitely not 2.5 or 3.0 tennis imo.
+Thunder Thanks for your comment Thunder. As you may wonder, this isn't your average park 3.0 tennis. We both compete in National tournaments at this level, but we practice and play against 4.0s and 4.5s and other National 3.0 and National 3.5 players. Hope this makes sense.. Cheers.
+Rolo Fitness interesting, is this texas? because i know they have a tough rating system, my section has players who are ranked about 4.5 or 5.0 up in ohio (my place) that'd probably be ranked 3.5 or 4.0 at best down there.
Hmm I'm sure the 4.5s and 5.0s could hang in the South with the same rating.. The level of play may be a little higher, but I'm sure they could play some competitive matches! It obviously depends on where you go in the South to play against other players, as some areas have a stronger field of play than others.
Rolo Fitness some things I noticed... hoodie needs to work on his serve game, and needs to run through all the way for drop shots, not stop half way and such. Red could be more aggressive instead of short shots and drop shots. Hoodie has good backhand and reliable forehand, but looks shaky at net. Red has good forehand and backhand, but needs to work on his power. Red has a better technique and overall I'd say mmmmmm...... Hoodie is at mid 3.5 and Red is at high 3.5 or 4.0
Good playing. This is average 3.0 level for state competition in southern region especially Atlanta area. I’d say accurate description for championship level play. Local league average 3.0 players aren’t quite as advanced though. Either way, Good hitting!
Is the title not inaccurate if you say "best example" yet the majority of comments say this is above 3.0 forcing you to clarify it's only in your area?
You are 4.0 level players. The footwork, the technique, the style, the strategy, all of it is 4.0 level. You should be playing 4.0 level tournaments or higher, otherwise you are just letting yourself down. Don't underestimate yourself.
I don't see why everyone thinks you are trolling for comments i mean you clearly are good players but in a state that is more competitive you would definitely be a 3.0 or 3.5
Hey man, I want to point something out about what you are saying in the comments about rating. Even if you area has a lot of strong players. Your ranking is suppose to be by the USTA standards and not by the group of people in your area/state . Unless your USTA committee doesn't look at scores or how you play then you should contact USTA officials about that. Pretty much a the biggest difference that USTA officials in our area look at is a full swing which is what you guys have and you guys can slice. You should really be talking to your USTA people there about that to see how your rating really is. What is your full name anyways?? I can look up your stats for you.
+Benny Allejos Right, I understand what you are saying about it being national rankings, but it surely does differ from state to state. That is why the teams who usually win National tournaments reign from California, Texas, or Florida...with some occasional teams coming from the East Coast, but mainly, it is those three states bringing home most titles.
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I used to be an NTRP rater. You guys are NOT 3.0 players. 3.0 players cannot consistently keep a rally, force a stronger serve , hit with consistent topspin ...shall i go on? Are you guys just looking for comments?
+mason1011 No, you didn't. Come out to the next 3.0 Nationals and see if your comments are on-par with the play going on. Thanks.
Mmm hmm...Right..
Rolo Fitness lol 3.0 national caliber players are usually 3.5 or better players that throw matches to keep their rating down. Happens all the time.
NTRP is so weird. It says a recreational player playing 3 times a week can get to 3.0. That's a lot of tennis, and one would hope that footwork and stroke development would reach the level illustrated in the video if someone plays that often.
@@charlesfisher3983 exactly. It’s basically battle of sandbaggers. I got DQ’ed from 3.0 in second round playoff (regional, sectional, whatever it’s called), and my teammates told me they played several better players than me in next round. And that was still not even nationals
4.0 maybe even 4.5 for the guy in grey. - power producing back hands, consistency even in high pressure situations and at odd body angles, ability to produce powerful returns from medium to high paced balls, varied and aggressive services, etc. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A 3.0
I am currently a 3.0 player here in Texas and am currently ranked 6th in tournament rankings in my section. Based on this video, I can say that you may be playing below your weight class. You two really seem to know what you are doing in this video. There are definitely very strong 3.0 players at national tournaments. My team made it to nationals in 2018 out of the Texas section. The thing is, I never encountered players with stroke quality as good as yours seem to be in either singles or doubles. I am considered a very strong 3.0 and will be playing up to 3.5 in the coming new season. If you haven't yet, I suggest you do the same. Always strive for improvement. You will develop terrible habits if you keep playing below the level you are capable of competing at. Good luck to you both!
3.0s hitting topspin back hands, drop shots, playing all court tennis? In my area these guys are at least 4.0.
+Arnie T Maybe in your area, but not here. The main point I'm trying to get across is that for each level, there has to be REALLY good players to compete at the national level, and that is who we are. Could we win and hang with the some 3.5s or some 4.0s, sure we can, but we enjoy competing against the nation's best 2.5 and 3.0 players.
@@rolofitness9783 your stroke production alone is 4.0
@@rolofitness9783 " we enjoy competing against the nation's best 2.5 and 3.0 players." You mean you are sandbaggers who just enjoy winning titles and getting the feeling of being the best instead of actually competing against those of similar skill consistently. Pathetic is what you are
@@TheTruthiest haha savage
@@TheTruthiest he’s probably from “SoCal” lol. Bs.
if this is ntrp 3.0 i am roger federer and nadal is my dog.
lmaoooo
“nadal is my dog” WHAT- 💀
You are not Roger Federer you are dumb af. This is easily 3.0 . 3.0 is not any respectable rating.
Hey!!! I love all the DRAMA!! I entered a small Hawaii tournament last year and won at 2.5. I've been practicing and gotten a lot better and this year will compete at 3.0. I had come across this video a couple of times and felt a bit discouraged in that I didn't feel I was quite up to your level. Upon reading all the comments I feel relieved!
"Best example of 3.0"? Are you fishing for compliments? This is possibly the worst example of 3.0 and vastly discouraging for any real 3.0. You're easily both 4.0 as a minimum.
+situazionauta There have been countless comments here saying how true this video is to a really competitive 3.0 tennis video, so you're free to your opinion, but many others here disagree with your outlook.
Exactly, fishing for compliments! Nothing I hate more than mock modesty
@@rolofitness9783 You are pathetic.
You would be rated out of the 3.0 USTA for sandbagging at 3.0. Get real..
@@rolofitness9783 judging my the likes to dislikes ratio, I would say I have no idea what you are talking about
To be honest, I think you were posting this video looking for some love/complements, kinda like skinny girls who take selfies in bikinis and say 'omg i need to get in shape lol' knowing that they will get comments like 'don't say that, you're beautiful!', 'you look gorgeous, what are you talking about?' Hoping you feel good about yourself after posting your 3.0 tennis video :)
You say that but the comments are split between "this is an accurate video" and "this is not 3.0". I just wanted to post this video to show people what really competitive 3.0 tennis looked like.
Im afraid this is 3.0. The tennis world is big. For this level play it should take 4-6 months to get to. I think people are likely to think themselves higher than lower.
@Flaw you pointed it out perfect. Lol :))
Something is off. Are you trolling for comments? No other commenters agree with your rating. Form and shot making is 4.0 for mid Atlantic section, unless you break down horribly against retrievers or in longer matches, your match play is at least 3.5 (for our area). Maybe everyone in your area is playing down. ??? How do you perform vs other 3.0s in singles? How do your regional singles players do at nationals?
+satjiwan Well, we typically win more than we lose in the 3.0 singles, but the matches are always very close. Competition here in Texas is extremely high. What may be 4.0 singles in your state is more like 3.0 down here. My buddy and I though are nationally ranked for 2.5. Again, just like the other posters, your higher rating suggestion is very flattering! Thanks!
+satjiwan Sadly it looks like they're just content with cheating.
+Alex Startzel We have a national ranking for 2.5 and play in 3.0, how is that cheating?
+satjiwan Texas is deep but really nothing compared to other sections like florida,cal, and its not like they win every usta national either... No they arn't cheating the guy with the one hander had a 3.0 or weaker backhand but streaks of 4.0 which may be why it seemed higher than 3.0.. to say 2.5 though? that's a bloody joke.
+Jack Smith Yes, thank you for clarifying Jack. But to say we are nationally ranked 2.5 is not too far fetched. We are examples of what the top guys at 2.5 in our nation play at, that is what I'm trying to get at here. We aren't your typical 2.5 players you see at your local park, we compete at a very high level for our rating.
I'm a former Div I college player and these two are high tier 3.5's in skill level and could play with just about any mid grade 4.0 player
+cy shok Thanks for the kind words.
@@rolofitness9783 I totally agree!
Absolutely correct. Just trying to show off. I'm a former ski instructor and I would love to ski them down a double black diamond run!
lol ya easily 4.0.
Dude.. no
if these guys are 3.0 then roger federer is a 4.5
Im subtracting an entire rating point for the weird camera tilt.
LOL
This is not NTRP 3.0 . And you mentioned in a comment reply that you play 2.5 tennis in TX. Something is terribly off.
You’re easily 4.0, probably can hang with a 4.5, in this video.
12/14/19:
I have practiced my ass off for 3 years. I got a ball machine and practice AT LEAST 3 times a week. I was practicing backhands and volleys and approach shots and footwork and strategy via TH-cam. I then decided I would practice nothing but forehands and have been working on nothing but my forehand emulating Nadal's shot. I want to play in tournaments with a world class amateur forehand. Remember, I have hardly ever played against people...maybe 50 games total with buddies through the years. I have zero serve but will practice my serve after I get my forehand a little more money. So I looked at USTA ranking requirements for the first time today and I looked at ALL the USTA videos that show proficiencies for 2.5 up to 5.0 players and I was feeling good about having a 3.0 game but with a 4.0 forehand that I was sure was going to have me on top of the podium from day one and then I see these two 3.0's and I was absolutely deflated as I saw them doing serve plus 1 with precision and I saw them pushing and pulling and doing Nadal's plays and rallying 7 or 8 balls when even the pros only average 4.9 shots per point in competition. It wasn't until I read the comments that I realized the guys playing this match and portraying themselves as 3.0's have some kind of mental condition where they get off on pretending they are god's gift to low level tennis. If I were these guys I would want to raise my rankings regularly so I could play against people at my own level so I could lose and feel like I tried my best or win and not feel I robbed my opponent. Change the title of this tennis blasphemy to "BEST EXAMPLE OF USTA 4.0" or take it the hell off TH-cam where it serves to discourage good people who want to play a game against opponents of comparable abilities. This video gets two thumbs down and two middle fingers up...
dont get to down about it mate. They were clearly fishing for compliments. I like the way you elaborated on your anger towards them. Dont let it deflate you, let it motivate you to train hard and be better than them. Two thumbs down two middle fingers up, one head high hahaha
"This video gets two thumbs down and two middle fingers up..." Love it, bravo, and screw these fools.
while those guys may be better than 3.0 (I wouldn't know, according to the "official" equivalence sheet and my rating on my country I should be a 2.0 but people who watched a video of me playing on tennis warehouse said I could be a 3.0), don't imagine that you can get a 3.0 game without playing other players. And I'm sure that you don't have a 4.0 forehand. Play others, film yourself, and stay modest. Video often seems disappointing when compared to real life perception !
If you read what a 3.0 is on the usta website it is not this. It doesn't matter where you live. The rating system is universal. These guys are above average 3.5. Not 4.0. Plus all we are seeing is the highlights of an edited video. Keep that in mind.
+alloneword154 Please refer to Robert Builder's post. Thanks.
"Honestly, we are both a strong 2.5..." LiAR!
Total nonsense
4.0 at least
And thats why ppl say usta sandbags
I'm new at getting into tennis and have only been playing for 9 months but have played basketball and softball at state tournament levels. From all of the other videos I have seen with ratings, I would say these gentlemen are a solid 4.0. I understand how some people in tournaments may sand bag a bit to get into winning a tournament that may be a bit below their level (all sports are the same way at the amateur level).
Good show, gentlemen!
LMAO if you are playing USTA at 3.0 then you exemplify what is wrong with the system.
I hope your hollow wins make you feel good, those plastic trophies are worth so much!
You are both 3.5 at minimum and would likely be successful at 4.0.
FYI I've been playing USTA for 10+ years in Texas. Currently bouncing between 4.0-4.5 every year.
+Chris Noblett Maybe in your opinion and based on your area. The main point I'm trying to get across is that for each level, there has to be REALLY good players to compete at the national level, and that is who we are. Could we win and hang with some 3.5s or some 4.0s, sure we can, but we enjoy competing against the nation's best 2.5 and 3.0 players.
+Rolo Fitness Your post validates exactly what I was trying to say.
Instead of competing at the level you should, you enjoy competing at lower levels in order to make nationals and "win".
In reality you are winning at nothing as competing against inferior players is meaningless and shallow.
In my area? I've played all over Texas in tournaments and at sectional playoffs.
There is no area that has true 2.5/3.0 players that play like you.
There is no pride is saying "I made 2.5/3.0 nationals" knowing you are a much higher level player than that.
LOL have fun explaining that. "Hey I beat a bunch of beginners at tennis!!"
Learn to compete and push yourself to be better. Play at your level, even if it does not mean you will win all the time.
Have some character.
+Chris Noblett Then why don't you go out to every National tournament and tell every single player that? To me, I have fun playing in these National tournaments, I like traveling with friends and having that extra pressure on me. I don't boast to anyone in person about playing 2.5/3.0 nationals, It's just a fun hobby that myself and my team share. That is all. You're taking this so personally. Just relax and do you, man. I'll also note that I don't always win my matches at nationals. There are people, especially from California and Florida, that are on par, or even better than I am at these National tournaments so I'm never always destroying my opponents, the matches are very close.
+Rolo Fitness I understand that it is that way at nationals and everyone needs to do it in order to "compete".
I just think its completely undermines the entire USTA philosophy and is a poor reflection of peoples self character that they will essentially cheat in order to win a meaningless title.
I've made it to the finals of Texas sectionals several times and have never felt like everyone was playing "under" their level. There are always a few people on each team that are suspect but I have never run across an entire team trying to do it.
+Chris Noblett In his defense, one thing I've noticed is that people don't go strictly off of the USTA definitions for ratings. For example, in my area teaching pros (albeit slightly older in their 40s/50s) play at 4.0 while guys who have played tennis for years and may have played in high school/college (and are now in their mid 30s+) are playing 3.5. According to NTRP, I should be playing at a 4.0 level, yet I get consistently beaten by 3.5s and therefore I play in 3.0.
2.5/3.0 are still learning decent strokes. Meanwhile, red shirt is doing consistent kick serves, while blue hat's forehand has enough topspin to return the ball on the baseline.
I mean.. the kick serves don't really have a "kick" to them.. Both of our strokes are pretty decent, but not good enough to reach 3.5 level.
***EDIT***: Revisiting this 6 years later. I change my stance to mid/high-level 3.5.
Hey man, great video. Just wanted to let you know not to listen to all the comments saying you are sandbagging or whatever. I play 3.0 in Virginia and this is exactly what it looks like. I tried playing at 3.5 and was getting beat very consistently just like you said would happen to you; they were more consistent (especially on return of serve) and were a step higher in technique.
+Sni Zagi Exactly, thank you Sni for clearing it up with all these people! This is what really competitive USTA 3.0 tennis looks like...
Definitely not 3.0 in my (Mid-Atlantic) region. Strong 3.5. I was a 3.0 captain for two years and a 3.5 captain for four. Too consistent and groundstrokes are just too good for 3.0.
Thanks for the comment Michael.
1.0 in the brain
Not 3.0. Serves are too good. Return of serve too good. Backhand return of serve strong and deep. Volley game solid.
This has to be 4.0 level. My dad is a 4.0 and he plays with this pace. I even know some 4.0s that play at a lower pace than you guys smh
smooth tennis strokes , 3.5 to 4.0
+Johnny Grant I appreciate the kind words Johnny, maybe one day we will be at that rating, but for now, we have a long ways to go to climb the ladders in our state to that ranking. Thanks
I'm a club player from Columbus Ohio and have been professionally rated at 3.5. I haven't played in USTA but I've hit with 3.0 to 4.0 players. Given what I've seen in your video, you are at a solid 3.5. I think your comment on playing at a national level and being ranked at 2.5 seems off to me. There are many types of players. Some like to be challenged so they play opponents who are better than them, others however like to win. What happens is when a solid 4.0 keeps getting beat, he would go down a level and be dominant at 3.5. A 3.5 level gets beat because he is playing a true 4.0, so he goes down a level and so on. The problem I see is that there is no one true measuring stick here. Do organizers at the National level rate you on the spot or do they just ask which level you want to play? People play at a level they are comfortable with so my guess is that at the National level, most of your opponents are really 3.0 to 3.5.
Here is the official description of a 2.5 from the USTA website.
2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak. This player can sustain a slow rally with other players of same ability.
And this is the 3.5 description
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.
You guys are definitely a solid 3.5.
Dude....I was professionally ranked at 3.5 too!
too funny, they're probably still competing at 3.0 5 years later
I’m a solid 4.0 and these guys would give me a run for my money
It always amazes me what people will do to win.... throw points, throw games, throw matches, downrate, etc etc etc.
Both players are pathetic.
These guys are better than 4.0 from
Another video. I wish these were accurate
I'm confused. I'm a UK club player and interested in how you grade amateur players over in the US. I was watching some 4.5 guys playing and they didn't seem to be hitting much better than the 2 players in this vid. Very impressive standard of amateur tennis in the US though. I can see why your country has produced so many great pros.
+S Mona Yes, definitely.
Whats the area you guys are playing at?
Southern
if this is 3.0, u r talking major sandbagging! :) There're certain things you can't fake easily, look at the footwork esp. the split steps - very nicely done. Also, the one-handed backhand - formwise at least, is a 4.5 You must have got some very good lessons. Have fun!
+Jason Loo In my opinion, 3.0 is very GENEROUS for us. We are really nationally ranked 2.5s...
+Rolo Fitness Keep it up then - you guys have great form, and more importantly, have fun! :)
+Jason Loo Thank you so much!
Yes, that's what it's all about!
This is making me realize I've been seriously underrating myself. Here, I've been thinking im under 3.0 rating based on videos like this.
Many other posters have requested. Just curious why you wouldn't reveal your USTA # so that you can prove the doubters wrong?
+David Du Quite simply because I don't want to give out personal information (name and specific city) to random strangers on the internet. People have obviously gotten personally offended over this video and "hate" the content because they feel it is their civil duty to do so. If you take a look at the comments, there is a good number of people who say "This is a correct rating for this level of play, etc" and then you get the people who say "What? No way this is 3.0, blah blah blah", therefore there are two sides to this. Believe what you want..
Consistent depth of ground strokes, directional control, mostly hit with full swing, kick serve (from the grey) and heavy first serve (out of a well-formed swing) from the red, drop shot accuracy and disguise, court coverage, and OK net play.
This is not 3.0. More like 4.0, or may be even more if match-tough.
+namui Very generous comments, thanks.
I would say the red shirt should probably be ranked higher. Great slices, decent kick serve, consistent rallies, and decent control. I'd say his "weakness" would be his athleticism.
He has lost like 50 pounds since this video, so he's pretty quick now.. LOL
NTRP PLAYER RATING SCALE
2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak. This player can sustain a slow rally with other players of same ability.
3.0 This player is consistent when hitting medium pace shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks control when trying for directional intent, depth, or power.
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.
You guys are easy 3.5. On the cusp of 4.0.
If you all aren't dominating (winning 4 out of 5 matches at 3.0 Spring league) then you're close to about the right level. You should be pounding all 2.5s at any local or state tournament. Once you get to zero Ls the computer will tell on you and your on your way up to 3.5. Should be winning 1/3 to half, if you "compete as you hit". Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the comment.
depends what part of the country you are in.. Im a pro in FL (which is usually sandbagged a full point below the rest of the country) and I see all kinds of things... two 3.0s hitting a live ball would have a hard time keeping a sustained rally accurately down the middle. 3.5s can keep a little more control selecting shots, placement, and 4.0s can usually stroke OK from one part of the court but usually make alot of errors when moving/playing points. You both have some stroke development and can serve, drop shot somewhat ect... Closer to 4.0 for sure.
Thanks for the comment dude!
definitely playing at a higher level than a 3.0, I mean I am a 3.0 and my groundstrokes are consistent, but not so much as the shot placement here.
would love to know where this court is at, beautiful atmosphere to play in under the lights like that.
This was shot during the Christmas season, so our local tennis club had lights put up for the festive spirit! It was really distracting to play though!
To be honest, they are kinda 3.0. I know a lot of people are mad that they are saying 3.0 but 4.0 and 4.5 players tend to have a little more of a weapon of a forehand and backhand. Sure they CAN be consistent but their footwork is less than impressive for 4.0 players.
Not 3.0
+Wes Rhodes I know, we are more like 2.5s. We just play in 3.0.
+Rolo Fitness you know you are better than 2.5. You are both solid 3.5 and maybe 4.0
+Rolo Fitness 2.5 means you can't serve, backhand, or sustain any kind of rally
+Wes Rhodes We are nationally-ranked 2.5s. Thank you for your generosity though in the higher ratings!
+Rolo Fitness I've won several 3.0 & 3.5 tournaments. You guys are every bit as good as me
NTRP LEVEL: 3.0
This player is fairly consistent when hitting medium-paced shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks execution when trying for directional control, depth, pace or altering distance of shots. Most common doubles formation is one up, one back.
Potential limitations: consistency when applying or handling pace; difficulty handling shots “outside of their strike zone”; can be uncomfortable at the net.
These player are above this level..
Uhm, maybe... but you could say we are what that definition states.
So then you are not comfortable with all shots and lack control and depth?
Yes.
I have seen videos from players who actually play 4.0 tournaments and it is very comparable to what you show us here, although I must contend that I am used to seeing balls fly a tad faster on average in such footage. You're both ready for something more challenging -- attend a 4.0 event, just for fun and see for yourself what happens.
Thank you for the kind comment Maestro.
A decent 3.5 in mid Atlantic cities . If you think you are 3.0 , then you are modest and good thing for your mindset and can always improve .. definitely I like these videos more than self proclaimed 4.0s who are actually a 3.0
Absolute BS
True
Is your ntrp rating effected by wins and loses?
+Johnny Grant Yes, that is how it works.
+Rolo Fitness that's too bad for me cause in the first year of my tennis ladder I was 0 - 28.
+Johnny Grant No, it's okay. They assess your record every year, so if you had a bad first year and have a stellar second year, they'll look at simply your second year.
+Rolo Fitness I have not had a steller year yet, every year has been a bad year, hoping this year I will break through
Johnny Grant Oh okay, well good luck on this upcoming season my friend :)
The guy in the blue cap hits the ball late - due to footwork.
+Tony07UK Yeah, true but we all suffer with poor footwork...I'm sure you do too. It's about getting better man!
+Rolo Fitness Well, yes you're right - I've been playing for many years and also coach. I also make a point of studying TH-cam video clips for my own improvement.
This last Winter my footwork was getting lazy in the cold weather and as a result I was hitting the ball late, too close to my body and I thought I could get away with it, just using strength but poor technique. I've paid the price - now I have a painful arm and upper shoulder. For the time being I can only manage soft rallies with beginners and can't play hard hitters.
+Tony07UK Yes, great point. It's all mental in the sense that we think, "Aw, we can arm the ball and not have to get our footing in the right place" but then we miss after the third or fourth shot, but when we focus on the footwork, it almost subconsciously focus more on your follow through, and that may help the rest of our game. You should put up some videos on here!
Yeah, injuries can really hinder the ability to perform at a competitive level. Make sure you're more careful out there man!
Yeah, injuries can really hinder the ability to perform at a competitive level. Make sure you're more careful out there man!
havent played tennis since a teen, want to get back into it and join some tournaments for my skill level, i think im 2.5-3.0 but would probably get skunked by both of you, is it better to join a 3.0 tourney and do bad or a 2.5 and do good? i dont want to overestimate either and get embarassed at 3.0 lol any advice?
Hmm, I'd say to go play a Non-Sanctioned tournament at 3.0 and see how you do. Those tournaments are usually local and the strong 3.0 players don't typically play in those, and see how you do. But note, we both are very competitive 3.0 players, not your average city park 3.0 players, in essence, this is the best that you're going to get for a 3.0 tennis player, so know that there are thousands of other 3.0 players that are worse than we are. So yeah, enter a local tournament at 3.0 and see how you do, and then adjust from there. Just don't enter a Sanctioned tournament just yet..
Solid tennis but red guy's forehand looks hideous.
+Matthew Lin Yeah, well it's definitely funky but tough to play against.
+Rolo Fitness Against him, I would try to hit it flat and deep to take time away from his forehand because he has a big backswing and will tend to mistime it if he is rushed. Slicing deep would also cause him to float more forehands because of the grip since he cannot drive through it as much. Coming to the net off these shots would also be good. You have a very nice back court game.
Matthew Lin Thanks Matt for the advice!
Yes, I try to come to the net when I can, I just always have a problem with positioning and going on an angle depending where you hit the approach shot.. I always get caught in the wrong spot!
That's funny..I just watched your 5.0 vs 3.5 video now I see you here! lol
These guys are above 3.0. I'd say at least 3.5.
That's very kind of you James, thanks for your generous comment.
Very fun to watch! Red shirt guy had a nice touch and great serving! Blue cap guy had a great backhand, great hitting!
+Nick Smith (XxNintendo64xX) Thank you Nick
It seems that the levels are different depending on region. This is definitely above 3.0 in my area.
I'd like to think I'm 3.0 or 3.5 and y'all are better than me. Maybe it's time for me to reconsider where I play.
Very nice video. Your playing level is better than most 3.0s that I've seen. It's also rare to see someone below the 3.5 with a kick serve. If you're looking for an easy way to improve. I would recommend coming over the forehand more often. Slicing the forehand will get you into hot water when you play against the higher levels. Otherwise, nice job. Hope you guys have fun developing your games.
+JoshDragon18 Thanks for the tip! You take care as well!
Love how many youtubers overestimate their level while these guys do the opposite. You both are easily 3.5's.
After watching this video I think I am not more than 2.5 NTRP
yes you look 2.5, one is a pusher the other has'nt a clue how to deal with him. So your ratings are pretty fair.
+qaseem butt Yes, thank you for being fair with us. Everyone on here is over-evaluating us.
You guys are more consistent than 3.0 players probably a solid 3.5
+Alex Zukosvky That's nice of you man, we could maybe play 3.5 in other states, but currently, we are strong 2.5, or low 3.0 in our state and nationally speaking.
+Rolo Fitness Lies. Transparent lies. This ain't even 3.5. This is what 3.5 players THINK they look like before they see themselves on video. This is clearly two players who are at least 4.0 trolling youtube.
+Robert Joiner No, we are not trolling, this is solid 3.0 tennis. Many posters have agreed with me on this and some have disagreed.
3.5 NTRP - "This player has achieved stroke dependability with directional control on moderate shots, but still lacks depth, variety and the ability to alter
distance of shots. The effective use of lobs, Overheads, approach shots, and volleys is limited. This player is more comfortable at the net, has
improved court awareness, and is developing teamwork in doubles."
4.0 NTRP - "This player has dependable strokes with directional control and the ability to alter depth of shots on both forehand and backhand sides during
moderately paced play. This player also has the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots, and volleys with success. This player occasionally
forces errors when serving. Points may be lost due to impatience. Teamwork in doubles is evident".
I would suspect the players are between 3.5 and 4.0. I've also seen self rated players who rate themselves are 3.0 smash everyone in the tournament and the computer bumps them to 3.5 or even 4.0.
The guy in red is closer to a 4. The guy in gray is closer to a 3.5
+Sander Goldberg Hmm you're very generous.
Definite sandbaggers. If they were playing at 2.5 last year that is just sad. The drop shots the big guy in red was hitting are 4.0 quality at minimum.
+Alex Startzel Maybe in the state you play in, this would be a higher level, but in our state, this is a high 2.5, low 3.0 type of tennis playing. It's tough!
+Rolo Fitness It's a NATIONAL tennis rating program (NTRP) for a reason. You and anyone else playing like this at 2.5 or 3.0 is blatantly cheating.
+Alex Startzel You're delusional if you think that a 3.0 in Florida, Texas, or California, is the same as a 3.0 in Delaware. It is a NATIONAL rating program, but it really varies on the level of players. There's a reason why teams from the three states I listed above are always in the top 3 of teams winning Nationals for their division.
+Rolo Fitness Texas is notorious for cheating, but I always thought it was a bit of an exaggeration. However, this video shows two guys who are clearly high level 3.5s/low level 4.0s. So if these are the guys playing 2.5 or 3.0 Texas really does have an issue with systematic cheating.
+Alex Startzel One can play nationally at a rating, but could hang with a rating one above that, can't they?
if they are 3.0 i would be -1.0
I didn’t know what this rating bullshit was but looks like I’m a freaking 3.0 and above and I’ve only played recreationally when I was kid. Time to dust off the racquets 3 decades later. 😣
if you play in a 4.0 league, you'd seldom see players better than this...just for fun video I'm sure...looking for some responses...all good, enjoyed watching!
+hailmurray Well that's very nice of you, but unfortunately, in my state, this is very strong for 2.5 and middle ground for 3.0. I wish we could play in a 4.0 league...Maybe someday!
I'm just going to say to you doubters, read the descriptions of the ratings. During meaningful points play, they didn't have the placement and consistency when under any amount of pressure. At this level, while occasionally, constructed points are won, it was mostly about who had the consistency and control. Don't get me wrong, they had very nice looking strokes on display during warm up and when receiving comfortable balls in the points. As do many of you, I gather. But in the heat of a match, when tight, they couldn't exert their will on what the ball did. There are plenty of examples on other tennis channels who have way uglier shots but deserve this rating or higher because they are able to make the ball do what they want, in the pressure of a match. The rating system isn't an aesthetics rating, but a match performance rating.
the first kick serve by grey is nice really good
So after reading a lot of comments, I get that ratings may differ in regions/cities and such (though, that's a bit problematic because there is a definition of the ratings, it's not supposed to be relative)...
How do you guys join a competition at 2.5 rating? who allows that someone who can play at a 3.5 rating, plays in a competition against 2.5 people? Isn't that going against the ratings' definitions, making the bar higher for each level? because if casual play 3.0 cannot compete at a 3.0, then the competing 3.0 is not really a 3.0 level if you follow official definitions..
according to this www.usta.com/Adult-Tennis/USTA-League/ntrp/
You are competiting (and winning unless everyone does the same) against those 2.5 who are basically learning to play:
NTRP LEVEL: 2.5
This player is learning to judge where the ball is going when receiving the ball, although movement and recovery are not in sync. Can sustain a rally of slow pace with other players of similar ability and is beginning to develop strokes. This player is becoming more familiar with the basic positions for singles and doubles. This player is ready to play social matches, leagues and low-level tournaments.
Potential limitations: grip weaknesses; not attempting full swing on serve; inconsistent toss on serve; limited transitions to net.
Well, playing at a casual level compared to playing at a highly competitive level is very different. There's pressure and nervousness that makes the highly competitive competitions way more difficult than playing at your local park with a buddy on a random Wednesday night.
My coach who used to be ATP pro told me Im inbetween 3.0 to 3.5. Basically these guys are on same level as I am, though their form is worse their game is quite on par. I wouldnt be surprised if they beat me on their good days. They are high 3.0, so quit crying a river, ppl.
that is a big loop on the forehand and your backhand prep is a bit late--extend the shot on the backhand side. you can hit it though. 3.0? but you have backhands? I thought 3.0's don't have backhands--but is the level that much harder now
+Hawaii Tennis Pro Yes, backhand prep is definitely late, working on that. Thanks for the tips!
Your backhands are always late HTP. Your ground stokes are half volleys. Not sure you can critique rolos strokes.
+nighttrain7404 I appreciate the words NightTrain. However HTP does have a point about our strokes being late, trying to work on it. We both appreciate all tips from everyone.
+Rolo Fitness this is 3.0? You guys look pretty good. I haven't seen usta for like 12 years now no wonder people complain. And I meant no disrespect earlier--you guys look young and on the way up. Fight on
+Hawaii Tennis Pro Yeah, non-taken! This is high quality 3.0 tennis, nationally speaking... Could we beat the average 4.0? Sure we can... And some day, when we think we can compete on the national level for 3.5, we'll move up and keep progressing. Love your videos by the way, watch them all the time!
I was going to say this is finally an accurate level assesment for a tennis video on TH-cam. This is indeed 3.0 tournament level play. A little more consistency would get you to 3.5. The guy in Red has good strokes and tall, but too slow
Yes, thank you for being a realist here Hereiam! The guy in the red is in really good shape right now so he's pretty quick!
Speaking of creating alternate profiles...
How hard do y'all serve?
Rate yourself whatever you'd like, But if you can play up you're only doing yourself a favor. You'll get better way faster losing to 3.5's and 4.0's with pace than winning most of your 3.0 matches.
+Skyler Thomas Check out Robert Builder's post. It explains everything. Every single player in the 2.5/3.0 National tournaments beats the average 3.5s and 4.0s. And National 4.0 players beat your average 4.5, some 5.0 players, that's how it all works.
+Rolo Fitness That's fair. Do you win money from these national tournaments? I imagine you only get one year playing these tournaments before they bump you up anyway. No hate, just know that all the poor 3.0s watching your video are having their dreams crushed thinking this is "The best example of 3.0 tennis". Ha.
+Skyler Thomas This is exactly what the title states. This is the best example of the highest form of 3.0 tennis in the Nation. I think the average 3.0 players know that this isn't how average 3.0 players play. No money won from these national tournaments besides free string from smaller tennis companies, but its not about the money, its about trying to win as a team in the National setting. AND no, there are ways to keep playing National tournaments every year and not get bumped up, which I won't discuss obviously. You do you and I'll do me. Stop making this more serious than it needs to be.
+Rolo Fitness "which I won't discuss, obviously"??!? So you're acknowledging that there are ways to game the system so you don't get bumped. Are you also saying that since you play nationally with your 2.5 team every year that you are good at gaming the system?
Nope, if I was hiding anything, I would keep silent about everything and never respond to you guys about anything. Do you see me hiding?
Guy in red seems m9re on a 3.5 level and guy in blue hat seems more like a 4.0. I play in SD and everyone here plays the ranking systems. I 0layed one 4.0 league and won most matches and then one doubles tournament and boom....bumped to 4.5...damn it. Haha. keep up the practicing and the guy in red has an extremely whipped forehand
I bet tennis is really competitive in Cali Mike! Thanks for the comments.
How long did it take you guys to get to this level? You guys looked very good. You guys looked very controlled, not like many other so called 3.0s on youtube. I really like how you guys are playing within yourself and not trying to crush the ball every time.
The backhand follow through and extension looked great; just need to prep earlier, there were some back swings that were not there until the ball hit the ground, a bit too late Imo. Maybe you guys can rally and call out your shots before they cross the net, that way the early prep will be ingrained on your swings.
On the forehands, you partner wasn't hitting very hard, you have tons of time, I would say go full close stance on those, save the open stance for when you get rushed.
I also saw a very nice and controlled volley at the end of the video.
Very impressive guys, keep it up.
+xieulong We've both been playing on and off our whole lives, so quite a bit. Footwork and better prepping is 100% what we both need to work on, but we are getting there! On my partner's forehands, it doesn't look like it's coming fast, but with his topspin, the reaction time isn't as slow as you'd think, but maybe that's a footwork issue all in itself. But anyways, thanks for the tip! We both play 2.5 tennis in Texas.
i only started playing usta this past year, but based on what i've seen so far these guys seem pretty on par with strong 3.0's, at least in NYC region. It seems 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 (and probably the other levels) are very broad spectrums filled with players that could be super weak or super strong for their level. I've been playing at 3.5 and these two seem like they could play at that level if they wanted - but would be on the weaker end. I've also spectated and played with plenty of strong 3.0's that have the same technique and consistency as these guys, some with more power and some with more angles.
i do see some people's points that you should force yourself to rate up and not down to truly get better, but that also only works to a certain extent. If you are getting creamed in 3.5 or 4.0, you won't see much improvement. Playing close matches with people of similar level will drastically improve your mental toughness and need for consistency, which are really the key requirements to be a solid competitive player.
it's good to see what the national level of play for 3.0 is, thanks a lot for posting guys and keep up the great work!
+Ruihong Chen Thanks for your comment Ruihong.
to the guy in the federer cap: on the deep or fast balls you take you r racket back at a good time, but you hold it back there until the ball hits the groung. if you start your swing earlier like before the ball hits the ground, it might help you out a bit. anyways your a great player, id say 3.5 easily. defenutly better than me. cheers
+amir assadi Thanks for the comments Amir!
the guy in the red shirt is insanely god at drop shots tho
+amir assadi Thanks for the comment!
Are you guys trying your hardest? Because if you are, then this does not look like usta 3.0. I play first doubles for my high school team, and that is the highest level at which I have ever played. Never played in a USTA tournament, and I can hit serves up to 115 mph (but usually in the low 90's) and ground strokes up to 95 on the forehand and 80 on the backhand. Only once have I ever had my serve broken. On a good day, I can play a 4 hour match without getting tired. I played my longest ever match in July of last year (I beat my friend 6-2 6-4 5-7 6-3 in 3h 33m; this is the time I was broken), and I have become much better since then. Judging by some of the other comments, 3.0 is a much higher level than what you have shown. Either that or I would be a 4.0 if I played in a USTA tournament.
yeah right..a 3.0 (red shirt) hitting with semi or full western (or somewhere in between) forehand grip and the other guy, hitting one-handed backhand crosscourt and down the line..hehe
WTF this is a joke. The serves, constant topspin forehands, one handed back hands, drop shots, easily 3.5 and closer to 4.0. They are trolling us. It's a bit hilarious that 99.9% of the comments are " no way you're 3.0" yet he still think he's 3.0
This is most definitely NOT 3.0 tennis. I am a 3.0 and the consistency is through the roof in this video. I would say just based on this video you are at minimum 3.5. If this is only video captured meant as a highlight film showing only positive play, then I can understand the confusion by other comments. Good video though. Those drop shots were nasty ones.
I hate to pile it on, but I agree with every commenter here. I play in mid florida and you both would be 4's or at least 3.5's here. Based on the fact that you are getting comments from across the country that are consistent I'd have to say the discrepancy is how you are being ranked locally. They must be doing it incorrectly.
These guys hit good!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Are they playing in a 1960s Batman villain’s lair?
Good 3.5. 3.0 is trollbait.
Good 3.5? Yeah right.. More like Competitive 3.0! Not 3.5...
The guy in the grey jumper has a good consistent backhand with good depth, and both players can keep a moderate rally going, but the foot speed and techniques of ground-strokes still needs to be worked on a fair bit.
Yes, agreed 100%!
Keep going! :)
Thank you!
Ummm . . . . No . . . . Your between a 3.5 and 4.0
Thanks for the kind words...
Mm mm, not 2.5 or 3.0. You guys are easily could be one of the top 3.5 players in my section and are more likely 4.0s. In fact you'd beat some 4.5s in my section, not a lot, but a few. This is definitely not 2.5 or 3.0 tennis imo.
+Thunder Thanks for your comment Thunder. As you may wonder, this isn't your average park 3.0 tennis. We both compete in National tournaments at this level, but we practice and play against 4.0s and 4.5s and other National 3.0 and National 3.5 players. Hope this makes sense.. Cheers.
+Rolo Fitness interesting, is this texas? because i know they have a tough rating system, my section has players who are ranked about 4.5 or 5.0 up in ohio (my place) that'd probably be ranked 3.5 or 4.0 at best down there.
Thunder Yes, this is in Texas.
Hmm I'm sure the 4.5s and 5.0s could hang in the South with the same rating.. The level of play may be a little higher, but I'm sure they could play some competitive matches! It obviously depends on where you go in the South to play against other players, as some areas have a stronger field of play than others.
Rolo Fitness some things I noticed... hoodie needs to work on his serve game, and needs to run through all the way for drop shots, not stop half way and such. Red could be more aggressive instead of short shots and drop shots. Hoodie has good backhand and reliable forehand, but looks shaky at net. Red has good forehand and backhand, but needs to work on his power. Red has a better technique and overall I'd say mmmmmm...... Hoodie is at mid 3.5 and Red is at high 3.5 or 4.0
Good playing. This is average 3.0 level for state competition in southern region especially Atlanta area. I’d say accurate description for championship level play. Local league average 3.0 players aren’t quite as advanced though. Either way, Good hitting!
Is the title not inaccurate if you say "best example" yet the majority of comments say this is above 3.0 forcing you to clarify it's only in your area?
You are 4.0 level players. The footwork, the technique, the style, the strategy, all of it is 4.0 level. You should be playing 4.0 level tournaments or higher, otherwise you are just letting yourself down. Don't underestimate yourself.
Considering all these errors and footwork, I don't think you're anywhere near trolling.
I'm 3.5 but i think you two could give me a run for my money, only difference is that my shots hit harder and lower than both of you.
+TalesOfFan Very well! Haha, I'd love to see a video of you playing tennis so I can see your strokes, it's all about improving! Take care
Maybe someday if I can find a good camera
***** Cool, let me know when you do.
Just use your phone camera! You've got a phone, right?
I don't see why everyone thinks you are trolling for comments i mean you clearly are good players but in a state that is more competitive you would definitely be a 3.0 or 3.5
Hey man, I want to point something out about what you are saying in the comments about rating. Even if you area has a lot of strong players. Your ranking is suppose to be by the USTA standards and not by the group of people in your area/state . Unless your USTA committee doesn't look at scores or how you play then you should contact USTA officials about that. Pretty much a the biggest difference that USTA officials in our area look at is a full swing which is what you guys have and you guys can slice. You should really be talking to your USTA people there about that to see how your rating really is. What is your full name anyways?? I can look up your stats for you.
+Benny Allejos Right, I understand what you are saying about it being national rankings, but it surely does differ from state to state. That is why the teams who usually win National tournaments reign from California, Texas, or Florida...with some occasional teams coming from the East Coast, but mainly, it is those three states bringing home most titles.
Both are 3.5 players.
Thanks for the generous comment Arrek.