even as an Imperial Fist player I can at least respect his capability, he literally Carried Horus' Rebellion and Horus had the gall to say something like that?
@@skaut_games7644 the thing is it was not a fortress it was just a building made to look important like the hot dog stand in the middle of the pentagon
Horus: "Perturabo does good work, but its ultimately unnecessary." Perturabo: "...If my self esteem weren't several levels deep in the negatives, I would beat you like I beat Fulgrim."
It's curious to think what would of happened if Horus said this to Perty's face before the siege started. One the one hand, Horus would of made an enemy out of a high functioning several times genius, but on the other there's Rogal and his stupid fortress that needs toppling...
@@dovakiin296 Between the migraines from carrying the Heresy, the seething hate for Rogal, and him perpetually seeing the Eye of Terror wherever he closes his eyes, Tzeench would take advantage of Perty absolutely losing his f*cking mind.
@Ollyatlas except he isn't... he's very sure of his capabilities. But his desire to be recognized and praised for his capabilities kept him from being his absolute best and most efficient, which is how he fell to Chaos. The Emperor really just needed to give Perty a world to throw parades for himself on and he'd be probably have one of the best attitudes out of the Primarchs. Gleefully taking on each siege The Emperor asks him too.
@@Ollyatlas He really is not. Perturabo is well aware of how brilliant he is, but he doesn't overrate himself like Fulgrim does. The fault lies with the other Primarchs for constantly _underrating_ and straight up disrespecting him. Who else could finesse weapons from someone as mistrustful as Lion El Johnson?
Nope, what broke the walls was chaos itself, demon engines (titans being controlling by chaos not by perturabo himself) and the gods themselves controlling the population in sabotage.
He really didn't. How exactly did he carry the heresy? Istvann? Horus, Prospero? Horus, Beta Garmmon? Horus, The Shadow Crusade & Calth? Lorgar, Thramas? Curze. Perturabo was caught dead to rights by a random Imperial Fists captain, shit the bed at Tallarn, got his soul nicked by Fulgrim and then rage quit the siege.
@@FoxHound-ut1hu i mean the beginin, when horus was sane, horus would make all the plans. But as soon as he went fool chaos madman, Perty had to pick command. In many ways he orchestrated the siege of terra and rage quitted only when all the chaos legions stopped following because they were to buissy being slaves to chaos. Most people put it this way, he didnt carry the heresy, but he sure as hell did carry the siege.
@@Freekymoho before molech or whatever that planet name was, before Horus stepped into that portal, He was sane. He started the entire war based on stopping that 40k grimdark future. It's after molech, he drove into chaos so much, it messed up his mind.
Horus is talking out of his ass here. Rogal Dorn's biggest concern during the Siege was never Angron, Mortarion, or Fulgrim; it was Perturabo, the only one of his brothers who had the intelligence, resolve, and eye for details required to shatter the palace's defenses.
Real talk. Whereas Dorn did prove himself the better of Perty during the Siege (breaching the wall doesn't mean shit when you still lose) Perturabo WAS the problem, and Perty deserves all the respect for it.
@@HaloisterTo be fair, Perty could have won, but left after he couldn't get his brothers to reign in their demon forces and he was just like "Fine, you don't want to work together, figure it out yourself," then he dipped, not before cracking the walls.
"Oh yeah Perturabo? The one that allowed us to do any sort of meaningful damage to our enemies? The one that provided us with the siege weapons we needed? The one that actually had any semblance of battlefield strategy? That Perturabo? Nah, he ain't worth shit, we would've been fine without him"
I mean he’s not saying “we would be better without him” he saying “I would rather have the other guy” but still hours can’t say shit when perturabo carried the heresy
I wish Perty overheard Horus. He would have been smart enough not to challenge the chaos juiced Horus directly but proceed to nuke Horus’s forces before leaving which would have ended the Heresy a lot quicker.
@@guilliman1990You mean besides the fact that their aspirants generally took better to their gene-seed, and how, even now, they still have a relatively stable enough supply of both their and others' gene-seed to keep their Astartes wave tactics alongside their siege ones?
@@guilliman1990 iron will? Every time things didn't go his way he threw a tantrum and pulled his forces away despite being oh so wonderful at dealing with shit themselves.
@@kriegsmanjaeger5545Perty is the genius kid in class who has every class planned in his head, but any major deviation and he sulks because it’s no longer the “optimal” result. That is not to say, that if he actually cares enough, no wall, body, gun, or fucking kriegsmen will get in his way.
To be fair, Perterabo didn't want them either; there's a reason he completely cut ties with Chaos in general once the Heresy was over, and his Legion's members renounce Chaos influence to this day. It wasn't so much that they were for Chaos, it's that they were against the Imperium, and there was only one other choice.
@@XHobbiesPrimeDear God-Emperor, if Perty was Warmaster instead there would only be the Black Legion or Iron Warriors at this point, the other Traitor Primarchs probably wouldn’t commanded Space Marines only from their own geneseed (if they were allowed to be involved at all) and the Imperium wouldn’t have lasted 1,000 after the War of the Beast, and thats only because I suspect Perty might have waited until the last Loyalist Primarch was disappeared, by his efforts or otherwise
Horus is the last Primarch that should give lessons about undeserved reputation. His legion's fame came from either going agaist inferior oponents, or abusing the sh** out of Raven Guard before they were united with Corax. Heck, even the pacification of Luna was mainly a job of Raven Guard (and that was a battle that gave Luna Wolves their name).
@@marinesinspace6253Corax had been fighting evil from birth and was no stranger to darkness and dark feelings. He could sense the lurking darkness in Horus long before the others (except Vulkan) found out the hard way.
And yet still a sulking loser. The Iron Cage and his wars against the Hruud were his only decent feats and even then... just like the other traitors, he is ultimately a failure that gets beat time and time again. Trash ass, needy baby boy
@zacharyash2050 He's prone to tantrums and a man-child, but once he puts his mind to something, through genius and sheer will he accomplishes his objective. His victory was so thorough at the iron cage it sent Rogal Dorne into a late emo stage.
he succeeded actually. The imperium was shattered, the emperor was dying, the warp got much bigger and posed a bigger threat, he killed the imperium's strongest Primarch. He dealt so much god dam damage that the imperium, to this day, has not fully recovered. He hit it so hard that it walked away bleeding out and missing a limb or two, all without Perturabo.
But perty _does_ deserve direspect for his unreliability. The iron warriors will lead you straight into the heart of the enemy territory and start shooting you instead out of petty resentment (they left the emperor, horus, the alpha legion, other IWs...) Even if the imperial fists were markedly less skilled they will stick to your side until the treat was defeated. The IW are the guys you never want at your side when you think of it.
@@Yuri-gf6bw Morty makes a bit more sense if you think about it for a bit. The Emperor basically goaded him into getting his entire human honour guard killed and then killed Mortarion's adoptive father, the one thing Mortarion had been trying to do for his entire adult life up until that point. Morty cared enough about his first army that he renamed the Dusk Raiders, the Deathguard in remembrance of them.
@@leandrocastello309You don't want them at your side as a warrior, but they'd win you wars as a general. And that's their mindset, the bigger picture, the little pawns in between here and victory matter little. You don't have to like them, but you'd be a fool to deny their ability
@@NineSeptimshe would have been kicked to death by Dorn, Sanguinius and the Emperor if he tried, he fought them one at a time and still lost, there’s no way he would survive fighting them all at once
@@-TheMachineGod- well, Horus was strongher than the emperor, i don't think that Sanguinus and Dorne could actually do something. At most they could have been a distraction to give the emperor an opportunity to kill him without losing his life.
@@NineSeptims😂😂😂😂 He was such a coward, he split up the boarding party? He wanted to face them all one on one, on his own with this 'Godly Power' ... In essence....a bully! And he still got tricked and killed! So satisfying 😂
If Dorn had joined horus, Perty would have gone loyal out of spite. Imagine big E giving Perty the chance to defend the palace. BRB I need to buy my kid some more legos. I'm not crying you are.
Perty probably would have worse defenses than Dorn. But the traitors would also be fucking obliterated coming into thr system. Not only is Dorn nowhere near as wel equipped as perty is to deal with the bullshit of getting the traitors to terra, the entire sol system would be such a grindfest that on terra, there would be less than half the traitors there were making planetfall, certainly not enough to exploit the "not quite as good as Dorns but still bassically impenetrable" defensive setup. Then again, if Dorn went traitor, he'd just shank emps day 1, he was given the Palace job before the heresy started.
Perterabo is the better of the two in one degree. Breaking a defense. But, he only became the best of the two AFTER he stopped tying to prove himself better. The Eternal Fortress. This, in my opinion until we get books on the post heresy clean up, is when he accept he isn't Rogal Dorn. He still wants to berst him, but could care less by this point if anyone knows it. Hes given up on a gratification.
TBH Dorn was an absolute wreck by the time he attacked the eternal fortress. Even his own sons knew what their primarch was doing was tactically unsound, but they would rather die with him than refuse him his vengeance. I hope one day in the far future Dorn returns and challenges the daemon perty again for a rematch when he is at his best.
The deep lore also shown Dorn had a trap inside the palace he told no one but Sigismund. The Custodes came across it and were shocked. It was designed specifically to kill Perterabo-like siegers, and was designed in a way Dorn designs NOTHING ELSE. Perty would have never seen his death coming would he have continued the siege. This lore has existed for forever, but you only read about it in BLACK TEMPLAR mentions and no where else.
@freakymoejoe2 Horus isn't just sulking here. He is genuinely beyond broken at this point. Just prior to his thoughts on Pertabo, he imagines himself still loyal and that the Siege of Tera is just another routine compliance mission of the Great Crusade.
It's honestly just true though. Horus is talking out of his ass. Sure purterabo is petty as he'll, but he actually is superior to Rogal in damn near everything except emotional control. Imperial Fists are mostly the loyalist cannon fodder in most stories. They rarely ever win, and generally just exist so traitor stories have someone's ass to clap
Ultra Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels (until the very end), all not present. Iron Hands nearly all dead, Salamanders nearly annihilation, Raven Guard decimated. Yeah no most of Dorn’s ally’s weren’t there during the final battle. People love to jerk off Perty for hard carrying the heresy because it’s become popular to say that because memes and TH-camrs but Dorn is the objectively better Primarch. Perturabo’s whole character is based around trying to measure up to Dorn.
@@itsawoodchuck4330 Dorn still his legion,, white scars, solar auxilia, and CUSTODES themselves. Plus he had years to build up defenses with all the resources and even still then Alpharius pointed out flaws in his defense (possibly to help him) before getting killed. All while being on the defensive side and having allies not being crazy Dorn had it considerably easier. Perturabo had to fight angron just to get him to show up. It's not like Dorn had to fight Sanguinius to get him to help, he just showed up and started kicking ass
Forgot to also add the traitor legions weren't at all full strength either. TS and Word bearers had reduced numbers. The night lords and alpha legion were also barely there. So it wasn't like the full traitor force was there either
Horus for a while had his act together but he ultimately went to shit just like everyone else and cause Perturabo to rage quite. The only other Primarch that was remotely as useful was Konrad.
While not a Primarch the Word Barers did set up the ruinstorm that kept the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels out of the Heresy for most of it along with killing over half of the Ultramarines
Perty had to babysit half his "ascended" siblings and deal with the E.C. bring more occupied with snorting civilians than actually doing any work. Frankly, I can buy a calm and rational Dorn being able to crack Perti's work(eventually but definitely not within 2 weeks). But a "goaded" Dorn? That's just asking for an Iron Cage situation, only this time, Perti would have had all the resources Terra(if not Sol as a whole) would have been able to muster to make "Terra's Iron Cage" hilariously more lethal.
Yeah it'd be a second Iron Cage, all things considered Perty kept himself extremely calm, collected and focused during the Siege. His allies were infuriating to fight along but he was having fun. I don't know if Dorn could've kept that same cool with his need for order and control. He would've gone insane lol
@@SnowyElephant Him leaving doesn't mean he wasn't calm. Matter of fact he left because he was the only one that was calm and collected besides maybe Mortartion. Read the excerpt on how he announces that he's leaving the Siege, he doesn't get pissy and throw a fit. He just announces that the war and cause he swore to fight for is no longer there and is dead, so he's leaving. It's pretty based ngl lol
Horus talkint shit about the guy thar carried the whole war on his back. He just forgot to mention that as soon as the Iron Warriors left, the loyalists gainned an upperhand
My favorite tak eon that is that rage quitting was actually a sign of Perturabo's growth: He realized that the people he wanted the approval of would never give it to him, and he didn't need it, so he just... left. And then he set The Iron Cage anyway to mess with Dorn.
Dorne had a pep talk with one of his sons after he lost an honor duel with a dark angel about how he should keep the same goal in mind but change how he goes about it and adapt to the situation in the way an actual father would talk. Perturabo would have just killed his legionary for failing him and then insist the next 200 do the same exact thing until they succeed.
Wasn't there lore about Perturabo sitting one of his men down and playing wargames with them, teaching them about how to think differently when stratagising for a war.
@@CaMooflagedHe said if he were to lose he would kill him,and the lesson was I stead of thinking tactically he should fight using hatred and by trying to kill the other side
@@CaMooflagedit was Abbadon he was talking to, and in the same section he said he learned that trick from Dorne when they used to have Sim battles against one another.
The best part is that Dorn never intended to hold the Imperial palace indefinitely! He literally built an escape contingency and even had a fleet on stand-by to be able to retreat with the Emperor if they lost the Siege on Terra. He wasn't thinking 1 or 2 steps ahead, he was thinking further ahead that you could dream of. Even the Last Wall protocol that was enacted 1000 years after the Horus Heresy (During the War of the Beast series) was something that Rogal Dorn planned and set up in the event that Terra would again be attacked in the future by one of the Imperiums enemies.
Konrad also did his share of heavy lifting. But yeah Fulgrim was useless, Horus became useless at the worst possible time and Angron was a straight up detriment.
Picture of all Traitor Legions in a single frame: "Horus Heresy at 100% strength" Same picture but without Iron Warrior and Peter Turbo: "Horus Heresy at 10% strength"
No Rogal would have still broken the palace quicker but that’s only because the motherfucker built the place so he knows every in and out and could easily besiege it
"My primarch, we've recieved a transmission from The Warmaster." "Are we actually getting something in The form of reinforcements?" "No, he said, and I quote, 'Lol, Rogal could've done this fast. Ask if he's free.' end quote." "... Fuck it. We're leaving." "What about your brothers?" "Fuck em."
My take on the Dorn/Perty debate is that they equal in similar but different fields. Dorn was the Architectural Engineer. Perty was the Mechanical Engineer. Dorn built things. Perty broke things. They could do the other's jobs but not as well as their own. Side note: Dorn wasn't holding the Palace against Perty. He was holding out against Perty *and* Horus and Mortarion. When Perty left, the Siege got stuck again. The Iron Cage was post-siege, when Dorn was emotionally exhausted (from having to put Dad on the chair and bury Sangy and Horus), mentally drained, with impaired judgment and weakened forces. At no point did the two have a proper, fully staffed, in their elements, with sound minds 1v1.
Exactly. No two Primarchs are carbon copies of one another, no two primarchs are completely interchangeable (except maybe Alpharius and Omegon). Pretty much the only thing that's holding back Peter Turbo from being held with the same esteem as Guilliman, except in Chaos, is his just plain awful attitude towards everything. Like, when Perturabo's plans start to go sideways, for whatever reason... he kind of gives up in frustration and just decides to indiscriminantly bomb allies and enemies alike. Talk about one of the worst trait for a commander and strategist to have: not being able to keep a cool head and roll with the punches. Or like when he does something not as well as someone else, he can't handle that either. Like, how are you supposed to improve if you don't have the humility to admit where you still need work?
Would be funny if perty somehow heard this, and in the future most successful black crusade ever. Perty shows at the loyalist side and flips the entire thing into one giant middle finger right back into the eye of terror and just leaves.
Honestly, despite the victim complex I like Peter more because he actually wanted to be more than a tool for the Emperor. If only Big E could have had each Primarch take therapy before getting their legions, to cut off any bad behaviour signs early, bur he really didn't get the illogical human mind...
Didn’t Horus complained that he got the Weaker Half of the primarchs. He wanted Gulliman but gotten Lorgar, He wanted ferrus but gotten Morty. He wanted Dorn but gotten Perty, he wanted the Lion but gotten Fulgrim.
@@Guardsman-sy8qm well GW decided to Tell instead of Show when it came to Ferrus Might. All the primarchs have their specialities, Gulliman with logistics, Logar with the Masses, Dorn with the fortifications and so on. What was the Iron Hands Primarch specifically good at according to the other primarchs. War Literally war in all its aspects. Apparently he was an all rounder. He might not be first or even second but he was the third or fourth best at it when it came to war. There wasn’t a type of warfare he’d be at a disadvantage at. Dorn can’t stealth for shit and Corvax can’t do frontal assaults. Gulliman might have a few specialist for various things but his sons can’t do everything. Again this is tales from the other primarchs. GW left them hanging for dust when it comes to how he actually operates
If they had swapped places and it was Rogal sieging and Perty defending, the traitors really wouldn't have liked that. Perty makes it pretty clear his idea of defense is "If they're all dead they can't attack anymore can they?" Horus probably would have had to deal with multiple heavily defended planets, each turning out to be a trap, and probably Perty making fucking stars explode on Horus as well. Like there's a distinctive chance Horus never would have made it to terra at all, the cost would be that almost every loyalist legion would be exhausted or destroyed.
@@GetsugaTensho85 Sort of, the iron cage was perty taking advantage of Dorn being angry, forcing him into a brutal slud of a battle, rigged in every way so perty and his legion would have the advantage, essentially every fight during the iron cage was on the iron warriors terms, and the true fortification was actually an underground tunnel network that connected everything along with masses of supplies, Dorn and his legion never found out about it. If it wasn't for the ultrmarines coming in Dorn's whole legion would have been wiped out and he would have been killed, all the while having inflicted only minor damage to perty's legion. Part of it was because perty had tricked Dorn into thinking that the large structure at the center of the battlefield was his base, but when Dorn's legion fought their way through all the defenses to get there, it turned out to be a ill box with no safe zones. Perty had played Dorn from the start.
I like that Perturabo's entire reason for going against the Emperor was because he felt he and his legion had been taken for granted. Then that happened 10 fold with his chaos aligned brothers. Still cant believe he became a demon prince. I feel like he would have rejected that out of spite.
Brah Horus was just trashing talking. This is the same Horus that commented that he thought everyone on his side was defective. Horus knew that his side was the broken side fueled by chaos, and that messed with his mind. So he saw everyone the sided with him as inherently less than because they were. They had broken there words and were traitors. edit to add. Horus though he was was the hero, then he looked around and saw that the only people that sided with him were people that he already knew were the "problem children ". That had to make him question himself, but he had already committed too much. He couldn't walk up to Big E and go "Im so sorry, i didnt realize how bad of an idea this was until ol night hunter over told me "How great of idea this was ". Sorry can i come back home "
Man... Horus disrespecting Perturabo like that. Horus, Perturabo CARRIED THE HERESY. Y'all never would have made it to Terra without him. Unfortunate truth for Horus is the Heresy was two competent Legions, one Legion pissed Daddy took away their science experiments, one Legion in it for the memes, and a bunch of short bus rejects... Seriously: * Fulgrim - Dude was in it just for that Slanussy. * Curze - Him and his entire Legion were PTSD incarnate, and didn't participate in the Seige of Terra. * Angron - He was basically Chunk from the Goonies but Grim-dark emo. * Mortarion - Almost not a short-bus reject, but Typhon existed. * Lorgar - He betrayed you, and Erebus is a dick-weasel. That's more than half your Primarchs Horus who just didn't give a crap about YOUR Heresy. Who is left? Magnus? Yeah, he cared after Prospero, but he wasn't going to plan the Seige. Alpharius? He was competent, but he is a meme lord. Heck, you don't know if he actually is alive or dead. Seriously, in terms of competence, capability, and motivation it was Horus and Perturabo.
Pretty sure it would only be Perty that would have had the competency to lead the siege. By this point of the heresy, Horus was batshit insane thanks to all the chaos cool-aid he had been drinking.
Horus: "I actually never needed you." Pedro Turbo: "Aight, I'm out then" Horus: "Later loser" (proceeds to fail the siege on Terra and die in the process)
Damn! Horus did not mince words here… This makes it seem like Perturabo’s passive Primarch ability is to be Underestimated & taken for-granted. Which seems like it would be a curse, until you consider all he has overcome.
Horus really unappreciated the brother who legit carried his bitch ass and all his Traitor brothers through his ignorant rebellion. I'm a Rogal fan, I love the Imperial Fists and Black Templars, but I do love Perturabo and his Iron Warriors, they are the real threat, they were the ones who really just would've torn it all down, but the rivalry between Pert and Dorn, that was its own statement and testament. The fucking Iron Cage? Bro, it still blows my mind. Astartes versus Astartes, just absolutely mind breaking when Imperial Fists got fucking slaughtered. Horus was just that Gary Sue figurehead and even Pert knew to use the chaos gods as a tool, to never cross that level of corruption. Idk, I think Pert coming back to rematch with the returning primarchs would be way more epic than anything Abbadon would do. You imagine Pert just putting Abbadon in his place and taking over with Vashtor empowering Perturabo.
His own side quests like "go get Angron and his legion for the Siege" or "go help Fulgrim with his BS?" Without Perturabo, Horus would've had the Alpha Legion, Death Guard, and his own Son's of Horus as his only full strength legion forced to fight Dorn. It wouldn't have been a contest.
@@Guardsman-sy8qm Lorgar could have been sent to grab Angron instead of Fulgrim. Good ol power of true names. And note, that the grabbing of Angron happens at the tail end of the war. The vast majority of it has happened and passed. Fulgrim’s BS was a side quest, and it was preluded by two other sides quests from Perty: Phall and Hydra Cordatus. It was then followed by a rather lengthy side quest on Tallarn after getting stuck in the warp for years. Perty doesn’t carry the traitors to Terra, he’s one of the damn anchors slowing them down. He only starts carrying once we reach the Siege.
I think it's interesting that Perturabo and Dorn are often compared, I'm not sure if it's true or not but wasn't it stated somewhere that if the Sons of Horus and Imperial fists were to ever fight each other full force the battle would be a stalemate because neither side would be able to get the upper hand?
The man defeated Demon angron in single combat, beat fulgrim in one hit while weakened, breached the walls of the imperial palace and then baited rogal Dorn so bad into a trap so bad that he had to be saved by his brother after loosing hundreds of space marines, but he’s the inferior one, yeah ok
Didn't Dorn back to back Angron, Ascended Fulgrim, and Samus? Also held out with far inferior numerically, and arguably qualitative forces, in a hopeless no win scenario till it became a desperate bid for the traitors to actually win before the ACTUAL Imperial forces arrived? Like in terms of what a Siege is Dorn full stop proved he was better than Perty. Sure Pert breached the walls, but who won the Siege? Oh right. Both sides calm in their right minds? Dorn IS definitively the better of the two.
@@Haloister dorn needed help just to beat alpharius, the only three primarch that were given the hardest battle in the entirety of the great crusade were perturabo, the Kahn, and mortarion, dorn created the pain glove because he’s marines caught the beat down by the iron warriors and he did all that while refusing any help from the chaos gods
@hectorsanchez7581 I might be confusing his fight with Angron with something else. But I know for a FACT he soloed Ascended Fulgrim and Samus. Also, as a side, the pain glove was a thing prior to the Iron Cage.
@@Haloister quick answer.. Horus Being an Idiot and remove the only Capable Primarch on the field and the replacement cannot do anything and proceed to lose the war.
@@Haloister if Horus let Perty finish the Siege. That would be a different story.. The moment Perty left the Siege the traitors Effectiveness Plummet..
@bigmonkeking9067 Hey you know how a siege works right? You hold off the attacking force until either they run out of steam or a relief force arrives. You know those exact things Dorn did. You know what a victorious siege looks like for the defenders. Soooooooo yeah
Oh Perturabo? The guy you sent after Daemon Angron? The guy who fended off guilliman as the traitors pushed on? The lad who despite being fucked over by the Emperor's Children, maintained his oath & fought for you? The man who brought siege engines? The fucker that was granted the worst jobs, the destain of his brothers despite them never offering help but relying on him & his sons constantly? The bastard that was finally in the flow state, ripping down the palace on terra when you couldn't be bothered to address him, ordering through a chain that command be granted to Mortarion? (I love Mortarion but this wasn't his moment) Fuckn hell Horus, you're lucky you had the mental capacity to get Ferrus spawnkilled if this is where we ended up. (Justice for Ferrus)
Worth noting that at this point Horus was so corrupted and drunk on chaos cool aid he didn't realise his equerry was Argonis, and that Maloghurst was long dead.
you have to remember that Horus and Dorn were really close friends, so this is obviously Horus lamenting Dorn being called back to Tera by the Emperor before the start of the Heresy. he is being emotional and lashing out at a undeserving Pertarabo, who was the only reason they made it as far as they did. the Iron Cage proved that Pert and Dorn a just about equal.
Nah, Horus, don't get to talk shit on Perty. Horus wouldn't have even gotten to Terra without Perty holding all of it together, being the only one to resist chaos as well. None of the Chaos Primarchs would've been able to scratch Terra's defenses without Perty masterminding the siege. Perty hard carried while Horus acted all smug and powerful, Fulgrim made cocaine out of Terra's people, and Angron was just an attack dog. Also, Perty bent over Rogal at the Iron Cage again proving who is the superior Siege Master.
This, more than anything, shows how clouded Horus' vision was. Perty wasn't the best, but in that lot he was *the* best. And more over, he honestly was one of the choice picks out of all of them, because of the things he did not involving blunt force trauma.
I feel like Horus would've insulted whoever was at his side. If he had Dorn he would talked about how much he wished he had Perturabo. If he had the Khan instead of Fulgrim he would've wished for Fulgrim. He was refusing to take any blame for his misgivings at this point due to his ego.
The loss of Perturabo to Chaos was probably one of the worse losses the Imperium had, right after the Emperor being severely wounded and the loss of the webway project. Just think. Perturabo can literally rebuild Dark Age of Technology just by looking at it. Now imagine loyalist Perturabo rebuilding the Castigator Titan... Dorn, what does Dorn have? A Phalanx star fortress he randomly found and could never rebuild again.
The loss of Perterabo to Chaos wasn't that catastrophic. Because the Iron Warrior were depleted and ground down by the missions that the Emperor gave him. Like the fight against the Hrud. Or the countless sieges he was forced to wage. Leading to attrition rates so terrible that it cause an uprising on Olympia. Which then Led to Perterabo slaughtering his own people, having a break down, and joining Horus. Honestly if you look at the traitor side this pattern repeats. The Emperors Children battered by their battle against the Laer. And Mortarians legions sent to do the dirtiest, most hazardous fighting. I know that the emperor didn't see the heresy coming. But it sure is funny how the traitor legions got the most hazardous jobs that broke them before the heresy even started.
Horus is deluding himself here. Peter Turbo was hard-carrying the Horus Heresy at this point and when he finally had enough and said "Screw you guys, I'm going home" it left Horus with no other plan then to bait the Emperor into a duel which he ultimately lost.
Horus: If I don't trash talk Perty, the gods may favor him over me. Can't have that, who'd smack daddy as good as I can? I mean, if I wasn't found first I might not have been made warmaster. Who, besides about 20 others, could have done a better job at that than I?
In a way this kinda highlights just how deluded Horus became towards the end of his life, Perturabo was the backbone of the entire siege and only really failed because Horus fulgrim Mortarion and Angron couldn’t still still when they were told and Dorn was anxious of petutabo every step of the siege.
Iron Cage: legion vs legion action Siege of Terra: most of the traitor legions + the full focus of the chaos gods vs a couple loyalists legions, the Emperor locked on the golden throne and most custodes decimated on the webway. I know Perty is cool, but carrying the defense of Terra is a bigger feat than anything Perturabo has done.
Oh also blocking the dark Mechanicus from Mars and i repeat myself A SIEGE ORCHESTRATED BY CHAOS UNDIVIDED WITH HORUS AT THE HEAD, ain't no one else in the universe capable of defending that, while also resisting Khorne tentation So yea, i think Rogal would have carried the Heresy better than Perturabo
but lets be honest here, the rest of the traitor legions werent exactly premium allies; with all of them being some combination of insane or incompetent. The world eaters and the emperors children being especially useless. Im sure perty would have traded them in a heartbeat for the blood angels and whatever custodes remained
With most of allies from chaos side being completely uncontrollable and willing to put superiority one after another and often don't give a shit about the orders. That's huge advantage that can outshine almost any disadvantage. What is a point of army, that can't even be controlled to go in one direction?
That's Horus' interpretation. What actually happened is that Perturabo was carrying the Heresy during the Invasion of Terra, and when the traitors kept infighting and taking his glories for their own, he left out of sheer bitterness. The only reason the traitors got as far as they did was because Perturabo was the best at siege. Once he left, the traitors began to struggle hard. He orchestrated the Istvaan, destroyed 3 entire legions and cracked open Terra.
Horus: "Rogal Dorn is better than Perturabo" Perturabo: Proceeds to build a death trap labyrinth that would've wiped out Dorn and the Imperial Fists, had they not been pulled out by their allies.
Wasn't that whole thing specifically because Dorn felt he was responsible for E's enthronment and rushed into the battle without plans and without any care if he lived or died?
@@gothpunkboy89 As I remember it, this was more personal against the Iron Warriors because they built a big fortress and more or less taunted Dorn and the Imperial Fists, and they couldn't let it slide. I don't remember the aspects you are mentioning, but I can't in good conscience dismiss it either, as it sounds highly likely.
@@TheSpoegefugl 40k Lex website seems to support most of what I said. Dorn specifically went there not only to get Pert but also for his entire legion to metaphorically enter a pain glove. Also that the attack was launched without the usual planning and preparation the Fists usually operated under.
It was a deliberate act you moron. The fists weren’t about to be disrespected by bobby g and accept his book. Bobby g loved his book so much he was willing to kill his brother and his sons if they didn’t accept it. Dorn then had to make the sacrifice of losing his sons either way, and decided to at least kill some traitors. Fists made planet fall and suicide rushed the eternal fortress. The quote is something like “it seemed that the two legions would simply kill each other to a man” (which is kind of embarrassing for the IW when you think about it) but Bobby g didn’t think Dorn could kill Peter in a 1v1 so he showed up. (But couldn’t even stop Peter from leaving, good job dumbass).
Also Horus: im giving command over to Mortarion, The cardboard cut out of a brother whos main claim to fame is he a good pysker. ... Where is my honour guard?
I also think it would be better if Rogal Dorn were with Horus. Then he would have put all his strength into a stupid frontal attack, Renegade Legions would have quickly ended, and Horus’ stupid head would have flown off his shoulders even before arriving in the Solar system. Perturabo did not deserve to be under the command of degenerates.
Rogal Dorn is not Angron. You must be mistaken. Reread the books. Rogal Dorn is the kind to have foreseen all eventualities and prepared contingency plans for all of them, ALL of them. The Rogal Dorn from before the ascension of the Emperor was actually a better tactician and at siegecraft than Perturabo because he was more mentally stable. Simply put the siege and seing the Emperor mortally wounded and trapped into the golden throne broke him. The Rogal Dorn entering the iron cage without scouting the place is someone wanting desperatly to atone for his perceived failures through his own death if need be.
That quip about "panache" is horseshit, and why neither Horus nor Dorn know what they're on about when it comes to Perturabo. Horus is talking like the Primarchs are painters or artists only. They're not. They're soldiers. Generals. And moreso, they're weapons. It seems that they forgot that. But Perty didn’t. That's why he's so uncompromising in his fighting. He shows up to destroy the enemy, win the fight, and move on to the next. While Fulgrim preens his feathers, Horus basks in the cheers of others, and Rogal admires another painting, Perturabo spends his time in the worst fights of the Great Crusade. The only reason any of them fooled themselves into thinking Rogal's better is because they didn't pay attention to Perturabo. Even if he's a petulant manchild. Rogal Dorn has style, but Perturabo gets shit done. Iron Within.
Even with steep casualties for Marines and subbordinant Imperial Army Formations, Perturabo atill manages to have a consistent 100k strong Legion. His logistical skills are supreme. As a naval ckmmander, he's tactically brilliant. As a scientist, he's in fhe league with Mannus and Vulkan. One thing alot of readers seem to fail to grasp is that Perturabo was being sent to every war of attrition imaginable against peer threats. Whenever a force fights near peer or peer adversaries you get situations like the Western Front of the Great War. Panache isn't going to change what's about to happen Just like the Lion took immense casualties in the Xenocides, Perturabo took immense casualties in everyone if his campaigns from the black Judges, to the Saktrada deeps. The difference between his eldest sibbling and his legion and Perturabo's fourth, is that Perturabo bounces back rapidly and pushes on to the next. No other legion oppeested under such pressure and was that successful. Iron without iron within.
So does rogal, in saturnine perturabo throws a fit after abbadon tells him even if he wins against rogal everyone knows it's because he had the neverborn legions and warpcraft something perturabo claimed to despise. Like mortarion he is a hypocrite, his iron within was rusted.
Damn Horus didn’t hold back with the disrespect
Neither did any of his allies after Big E blasted his soul into oblivion. Horus is now regarded by the traitors as the biggest failure of all.
@@PumpkinHoard And none of them have done better, says a lot.
When you’re the most competent guy in your army, even while suffering from _Magic Space Dementia_ ™️, you know you have a problem
@@FoxHound-ut1hu well they’re not fucking dead so I’d say that’s quite a bit better than having your body and soul obliterated
even as an Imperial Fist player I can at least respect his capability, he literally Carried Horus' Rebellion and Horus had the gall to say something like that?
"Even faster if they goaded him."
And that's the Iron Cage in a nutshell.
Well technically Dorn took the fortress
If we ignore fact it was a trap
@@skaut_games7644and that the Ultramarines arrived at the last minute to help.
@@skaut_games7644 the thing is it was not a fortress it was just a building made to look important like the hot dog stand in the middle of the pentagon
@@Trayzentheinfinite And Rogal was that nuclear missile that Moscow pointing at that hotdog stand at all time.
@@skaut_games7644lmaoo bro if you fall on the trap, you lose💀
Horus: "Perturabo does good work, but its ultimately unnecessary."
Perturabo: "...If my self esteem weren't several levels deep in the negatives, I would beat you like I beat Fulgrim."
Perturabo is as vain as fulgrim
It's curious to think what would of happened if Horus said this to Perty's face before the siege started. One the one hand, Horus would of made an enemy out of a high functioning several times genius, but on the other there's Rogal and his stupid fortress that needs toppling...
@@dovakiin296 Between the migraines from carrying the Heresy, the seething hate for Rogal, and him perpetually seeing the Eye of Terror wherever he closes his eyes, Tzeench would take advantage of Perty absolutely losing his f*cking mind.
@Ollyatlas except he isn't... he's very sure of his capabilities. But his desire to be recognized and praised for his capabilities kept him from being his absolute best and most efficient, which is how he fell to Chaos. The Emperor really just needed to give Perty a world to throw parades for himself on and he'd be probably have one of the best attitudes out of the Primarchs. Gleefully taking on each siege The Emperor asks him too.
@@Ollyatlas He really is not. Perturabo is well aware of how brilliant he is, but he doesn't overrate himself like Fulgrim does.
The fault lies with the other Primarchs for constantly _underrating_ and straight up disrespecting him. Who else could finesse weapons from someone as mistrustful as Lion El Johnson?
Horus: "Perturabo is overrated and not truly any good."
Perturabo single handedly carrying the heresy: "That's it, Im fucking leaving."
Nope, what broke the walls was chaos itself, demon engines (titans being controlling by chaos not by perturabo himself) and the gods themselves controlling the population in sabotage.
“Fuck you I’m taking me and my sons out of here and then we’ll see who’s inferior” Perty
Nah @@xzenitramx666
He really didn't.
How exactly did he carry the heresy? Istvann? Horus, Prospero? Horus, Beta Garmmon? Horus, The Shadow Crusade & Calth? Lorgar, Thramas? Curze.
Perturabo was caught dead to rights by a random Imperial Fists captain, shit the bed at Tallarn, got his soul nicked by Fulgrim and then rage quit the siege.
@@FoxHound-ut1hu i mean the beginin, when horus was sane, horus would make all the plans. But as soon as he went fool chaos madman, Perty had to pick command.
In many ways he orchestrated the siege of terra and rage quitted only when all the chaos legions stopped following because they were to buissy being slaves to chaos.
Most people put it this way, he didnt carry the heresy, but he sure as hell did carry the siege.
Sure Horus you totally didn’t need him, keep telling yourself that
If chaos power didn't fked up Horus's brain, he would've done far better than Perty.
@@darksider2903 If chaos hadnt fucked his brain up, there wouldnt have been a civil war to begin with
@@darksider2903cope
@@Freekymohothis
@@Freekymoho before molech or whatever that planet name was, before Horus stepped into that portal, He was sane. He started the entire war based on stopping that 40k grimdark future. It's after molech, he drove into chaos so much, it messed up his mind.
Horus is talking out of his ass here. Rogal Dorn's biggest concern during the Siege was never Angron, Mortarion, or Fulgrim; it was Perturabo, the only one of his brothers who had the intelligence, resolve, and eye for details required to shatter the palace's defenses.
Sanguinius was happy not having to manage siege against Perturabo
Real talk. Whereas Dorn did prove himself the better of Perty during the Siege (breaching the wall doesn't mean shit when you still lose) Perturabo WAS the problem, and Perty deserves all the respect for it.
@@HaloisterTo be fair, Perty could have won, but left after he couldn't get his brothers to reign in their demon forces and he was just like "Fine, you don't want to work together, figure it out yourself," then he dipped, not before cracking the walls.
perturabo fanboy here.
Who could have guessed that a Chaos charmed betrayer has faults to his personal relationships and judgement...
"Oh yeah Perturabo? The one that allowed us to do any sort of meaningful damage to our enemies? The one that provided us with the siege weapons we needed? The one that actually had any semblance of battlefield strategy? That Perturabo? Nah, he ain't worth shit, we would've been fine without him"
I mean he’s not saying “we would be better without him” he saying “I would rather have the other guy” but still hours can’t say shit when perturabo carried the heresy
Well, to be fair. It was technically Lion El'Jonson that provided the necessary siege weapons for the traitors 😂
@@BM-wf9uf it was Perturabo who tricked Lion in to giving them in 1st place
@@KoteDarasuum Not hard to do given Jonson's people skills, or lack there of lol
@@BM-wf9ufThe most suspicious distrustful Primarch? Could Dorn have even attempted that deception?
I wish Perty overheard Horus. He would have been smart enough not to challenge the chaos juiced Horus directly but proceed to nuke Horus’s forces before leaving which would have ended the Heresy a lot quicker.
theres a reason the iron warriors are at legion strength still.
@@guilliman1990You mean besides the fact that their aspirants generally took better to their gene-seed, and how, even now, they still have a relatively stable enough supply of both their and others' gene-seed to keep their Astartes wave tactics alongside their siege ones?
@mortarion9813 these are contributing factors the main one being perty an his iron will. He's the real reason the traitors have anything left at all
@@guilliman1990 iron will? Every time things didn't go his way he threw a tantrum and pulled his forces away despite being oh so wonderful at dealing with shit themselves.
@@kriegsmanjaeger5545Perty is the genius kid in class who has every class planned in his head, but any major deviation and he sulks because it’s no longer the “optimal” result. That is not to say, that if he actually cares enough, no wall, body, gun, or fucking kriegsmen will get in his way.
The traitors honestly didn’t deserve Perty, they needed him, and they shouldn’t have gotten him. Poor Perty
Even now the shame that Abbadon is Warmaster over Perturabo is a shame.
To be fair, Perterabo didn't want them either; there's a reason he completely cut ties with Chaos in general once the Heresy was over, and his Legion's members renounce Chaos influence to this day. It wasn't so much that they were for Chaos, it's that they were against the Imperium, and there was only one other choice.
@@LabTech41If perturabo and dorn were loyalists, Horus and the traitor legions would have never gotten close to the SOL system.
@@XHobbiesPrimeDear God-Emperor, if Perty was Warmaster instead there would only be the Black Legion or Iron Warriors at this point, the other Traitor Primarchs probably wouldn’t commanded Space Marines only from their own geneseed (if they were allowed to be involved at all) and the Imperium wouldn’t have lasted 1,000 after the War of the Beast, and thats only because I suspect Perty might have waited until the last Loyalist Primarch was disappeared, by his efforts or otherwise
Poor? Nah, no matter the feats, Pertty Boy deserves nothing but the unending torment of the Warp, or worse
Horus is the last Primarch that should give lessons about undeserved reputation.
His legion's fame came from either going agaist inferior oponents, or abusing the sh** out of Raven Guard before they were united with Corax. Heck, even the pacification of Luna was mainly a job of Raven Guard (and that was a battle that gave Luna Wolves their name).
Corax hated Horus before it was cool.
@@marinesinspace6253Corax had been fighting evil from birth and was no stranger to darkness and dark feelings.
He could sense the lurking darkness in Horus long before the others (except Vulkan) found out the hard way.
Horus - "Perturabo isn't that good I only let him play with us to be nice"
*Perturabo leaves
Horus "Where has 95% of our power gone ?"
😂😂😂😂
Meanwhile The Emperor Children and Fulgrim: Turn a bunch of civilian into cocaine😂
Bro left and the forces of chaos pretty much got wiped out
I think about 70% of work. Morty was actually putting in the 10% and Konrad actually stalls 2 legions
@@j.t8529 by that point konrad buggered off cause he hated horus as much as he hated the emperor
Perty looking at Terras defenses: *lights up cig” Another fucking Monday… hate my life, fuck it we ball
*perty does an eight-ball and shotguns a monster* alright guess I gotta do it myself
@@sniperboom1202”you gotta crack a few walls to make a siege, Horus”
Well, Terra’s not gonna siege itself…
Didn't Pertorabo love the siege of terra?
To the other Primarchs warfare is some Honorable thing they do.
For Perturabo it's like working food service.
Pertarabo has the strongest back of any primarch, from having to carry their lazy, shit talking asses.
"Iron within, Iron without."
But the Panache!
And yet still a sulking loser. The Iron Cage and his wars against the Hruud were his only decent feats and even then... just like the other traitors, he is ultimately a failure that gets beat time and time again. Trash ass, needy baby boy
Preach the truth!
@zacharyash2050 He's prone to tantrums and a man-child, but once he puts his mind to something, through genius and sheer will he accomplishes his objective. His victory was so thorough at the iron cage it sent Rogal Dorne into a late emo stage.
Dorn.
That's why Horus is dead. He talked shit but when the time came he failed
or pertarabo didnt carry
@@TheReaper569Perturabo dipped when Horus and the others shit the bed.
he succeeded actually. The imperium was shattered, the emperor was dying, the warp got much bigger and posed a bigger threat, he killed the imperium's strongest Primarch. He dealt so much god dam damage that the imperium, to this day, has not fully recovered. He hit it so hard that it walked away bleeding out and missing a limb or two, all without Perturabo.
@@SnowyElephant thats not how success was for horus
@@SnowyElephant dude, that was thw Plan of the chaosgods... Not the Plan of Horus lmfao
Perty doesn't deserve the hate he gets from the wholeass setting, not only that but by the same brothers that he hard carried through the heresy
nah, perty, morty, magnus and lorgar all had silly reasons to turn traitor thats why they are the shitty traitors, while the others had actual reasons
But Horus reason was sound?
But perty _does_ deserve direspect for his unreliability. The iron warriors will lead you straight into the heart of the enemy territory and start shooting you instead out of petty resentment (they left the emperor, horus, the alpha legion, other IWs...)
Even if the imperial fists were markedly less skilled they will stick to your side until the treat was defeated. The IW are the guys you never want at your side when you think of it.
@@Yuri-gf6bw Morty makes a bit more sense if you think about it for a bit. The Emperor basically goaded him into getting his entire human honour guard killed and then killed Mortarion's adoptive father, the one thing Mortarion had been trying to do for his entire adult life up until that point. Morty cared enough about his first army that he renamed the Dusk Raiders, the Deathguard in remembrance of them.
@@leandrocastello309You don't want them at your side as a warrior, but they'd win you wars as a general. And that's their mindset, the bigger picture, the little pawns in between here and victory matter little. You don't have to like them, but you'd be a fool to deny their ability
Horus dissing good old Peter Turbo like he didn't carry the Heresy on his back.
ngl horus was pretty much a god at that point and could have just went down onto terra and broke the defences himself.
And yet he's dead
@@NineSeptims
@@NineSeptimshe would have been kicked to death by Dorn, Sanguinius and the Emperor if he tried, he fought them one at a time and still lost, there’s no way he would survive fighting them all at once
@@-TheMachineGod- well, Horus was strongher than the emperor, i don't think that Sanguinus and Dorne could actually do something. At most they could have been a distraction to give the emperor an opportunity to kill him without losing his life.
@@NineSeptims😂😂😂😂
He was such a coward, he split up the boarding party?
He wanted to face them all one on one, on his own with this 'Godly Power' ...
In essence....a bully!
And he still got tricked and killed! So satisfying 😂
If Dorn had joined horus, Perty would have gone loyal out of spite. Imagine big E giving Perty the chance to defend the palace.
BRB I need to buy my kid some more legos. I'm not crying you are.
Perty probably would have worse defenses than Dorn.
But the traitors would also be fucking obliterated coming into thr system. Not only is Dorn nowhere near as wel equipped as perty is to deal with the bullshit of getting the traitors to terra, the entire sol system would be such a grindfest that on terra, there would be less than half the traitors there were making planetfall, certainly not enough to exploit the "not quite as good as Dorns but still bassically impenetrable" defensive setup.
Then again, if Dorn went traitor, he'd just shank emps day 1, he was given the Palace job before the heresy started.
Tzeentch: That sounds hilarious, I'll keep a note of that for when I mess with the timeline out of boredom.
Dorn as a defender: builds a wall
Perty as a defender: builds a hallway filled with chainsaws, spikes, land mines, barbed wires and bear traps
@@luisroberto6209 And some more land mines for good measure.
The only mistake the iron warriors made in the heresy was not friendly firing more.
sad, but true
"Have faith, Word Bearer."
That and you know... joining space hell's side. The Khan didnt make that mistake and he had more friends among the traitors than Perty did.
Perterabo is the better of the two in one degree. Breaking a defense. But, he only became the best of the two AFTER he stopped tying to prove himself better. The Eternal Fortress. This, in my opinion until we get books on the post heresy clean up, is when he accept he isn't Rogal Dorn. He still wants to berst him, but could care less by this point if anyone knows it. Hes given up on a gratification.
TBH Dorn was an absolute wreck by the time he attacked the eternal fortress. Even his own sons knew what their primarch was doing was tactically unsound, but they would rather die with him than refuse him his vengeance. I hope one day in the far future Dorn returns and challenges the daemon perty again for a rematch when he is at his best.
The deep lore also shown Dorn had a trap inside the palace he told no one but Sigismund. The Custodes came across it and were shocked. It was designed specifically to kill Perterabo-like siegers, and was designed in a way Dorn designs NOTHING ELSE. Perty would have never seen his death coming would he have continued the siege.
This lore has existed for forever, but you only read about it in BLACK TEMPLAR mentions and no where else.
Talent wise? Yes but Dorn is much more reliable than that cry baby
This line is great because it shows how delusional Horus became during the end of the heresy
Yeah. Horus is basically just sulking here, because he can see his loss coming now that he bullied his most reliable ally into leaving
@freakymoejoe2 Horus isn't just sulking here. He is genuinely beyond broken at this point. Just prior to his thoughts on Pertabo, he imagines himself still loyal and that the Siege of Tera is just another routine compliance mission of the Great Crusade.
@@matthew92604 the new details on the final days of the heresy really makes you feel for horus
I think my favorite part about this is how the Iron Warrior fans turned up in force for this one.
We don't take no disrespect from the weakling failure Horus
Iron within, Iron without.
As a Blood Angel fan, I'll note we also are here to say Horus is on proper warp dust here
As a blood raven fan,
We probably took the iron warriors shit
It's honestly just true though. Horus is talking out of his ass. Sure purterabo is petty as he'll, but he actually is superior to Rogal in damn near everything except emotional control.
Imperial Fists are mostly the loyalist cannon fodder in most stories. They rarely ever win, and generally just exist so traitor stories have someone's ass to clap
Iron within, iron without
It's the only way to get all the creases out.
Rogal didnt have half his allies off doing side quests during the final battle
Royal didn’t have half his allies on the planet at all… the traitors outmanned the loyalists and had more primarchs on the field
Ultra Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels (until the very end), all not present. Iron Hands nearly all dead, Salamanders nearly annihilation, Raven Guard decimated. Yeah no most of Dorn’s ally’s weren’t there during the final battle.
People love to jerk off Perty for hard carrying the heresy because it’s become popular to say that because memes and TH-camrs but Dorn is the objectively better Primarch. Perturabo’s whole character is based around trying to measure up to Dorn.
@@itsawoodchuck4330 PREACH BROTHER!
@@itsawoodchuck4330 Dorn still his legion,, white scars, solar auxilia, and CUSTODES themselves. Plus he had years to build up defenses with all the resources and even still then Alpharius pointed out flaws in his defense (possibly to help him) before getting killed. All while being on the defensive side and having allies not being crazy Dorn had it considerably easier. Perturabo had to fight angron just to get him to show up. It's not like Dorn had to fight Sanguinius to get him to help, he just showed up and started kicking ass
Forgot to also add the traitor legions weren't at all full strength either. TS and Word bearers had reduced numbers. The night lords and alpha legion were also barely there. So it wasn't like the full traitor force was there either
What makes this ironic is the fact that perturabo was the most productive member of the heresy 😂😂😂 everyone else was basically batshit insane
Angron and fulgrim were absolutely useless
Horus for a while had his act together but he ultimately went to shit just like everyone else and cause Perturabo to rage quite. The only other Primarch that was remotely as useful was Konrad.
While not a Primarch the Word Barers did set up the ruinstorm that kept the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels out of the Heresy for most of it along with killing over half of the Ultramarines
Because he was the only one who didn't fall to one of the gods.
@@KyokujiFGC Neither did Curze, or whichever of the twin Primarchs of the Alpha Legion are alive
Perty had to babysit half his "ascended" siblings and deal with the E.C. bring more occupied with snorting civilians than actually doing any work.
Frankly, I can buy a calm and rational Dorn being able to crack Perti's work(eventually but definitely not within 2 weeks).
But a "goaded" Dorn? That's just asking for an Iron Cage situation, only this time, Perti would have had all the resources Terra(if not Sol as a whole) would have been able to muster to make "Terra's Iron Cage" hilariously more lethal.
Idk man goaded to me isn’t bloodlusted goaded means motivated to prove you wrong bloodlusted means blinded by desire to kill
Yeah it'd be a second Iron Cage, all things considered Perty kept himself extremely calm, collected and focused during the Siege. His allies were infuriating to fight along but he was having fun. I don't know if Dorn could've kept that same cool with his need for order and control. He would've gone insane lol
and to add, from what we know, dorn is most likekly to follow khorne out of all gods, so if he fell, hed be just angron 2
@@ironduke5058 the dude literally left out of being butt hurt. I'd hardly call that being calm.
@@SnowyElephant Him leaving doesn't mean he wasn't calm. Matter of fact he left because he was the only one that was calm and collected besides maybe Mortartion. Read the excerpt on how he announces that he's leaving the Siege, he doesn't get pissy and throw a fit. He just announces that the war and cause he swore to fight for is no longer there and is dead, so he's leaving. It's pretty based ngl lol
Horus talkint shit about the guy thar carried the whole war on his back.
He just forgot to mention that as soon as the Iron Warriors left, the loyalists gainned an upperhand
The thing Is perty would have complained either way, whether he was on the loyalist or traitor side, you know bitter within, bitter without
My favorite tak eon that is that rage quitting was actually a sign of Perturabo's growth: He realized that the people he wanted the approval of would never give it to him, and he didn't need it, so he just... left. And then he set The Iron Cage anyway to mess with Dorn.
Dorne had a pep talk with one of his sons after he lost an honor duel with a dark angel about how he should keep the same goal in mind but change how he goes about it and adapt to the situation in the way an actual father would talk. Perturabo would have just killed his legionary for failing him and then insist the next 200 do the same exact thing until they succeed.
Not really, depends on the mood, but his warrior would just lose his rank most likely
Wasn't there lore about Perturabo sitting one of his men down and playing wargames with them, teaching them about how to think differently when stratagising for a war.
@@CaMooflagedHe said if he were to lose he would kill him,and the lesson was I stead of thinking tactically he should fight using hatred and by trying to kill the other side
@@CaMooflagedit was Abbadon he was talking to, and in the same section he said he learned that trick from Dorne when they used to have Sim battles against one another.
@@lionheartfilms793I thought that scene was with Honsou? I'm prolly wrong
The best part is that Dorn never intended to hold the Imperial palace indefinitely! He literally built an escape contingency and even had a fleet on stand-by to be able to retreat with the Emperor if they lost the Siege on Terra. He wasn't thinking 1 or 2 steps ahead, he was thinking further ahead that you could dream of. Even the Last Wall protocol that was enacted 1000 years after the Horus Heresy (During the War of the Beast series) was something that Rogal Dorn planned and set up in the event that Terra would again be attacked in the future by one of the Imperiums enemies.
The writing during horus heresy is like a pendulum swinging from "what the fuck am i reading" to "lawd jesus this is written by the gods"
Bruh Perturabo and Mortarion carried the whole fucking heresy
Konrad also did his share of heavy lifting. But yeah Fulgrim was useless, Horus became useless at the worst possible time and Angron was a straight up detriment.
Picture of all Traitor Legions in a single frame:
"Horus Heresy at 100% strength"
Same picture but without Iron Warrior and Peter Turbo:
"Horus Heresy at 10% strength"
Perty carried the siege, if the sides were switched with rogal it would be not much different
No Rogal would have still broken the palace quicker but that’s only because the motherfucker built the place so he knows every in and out and could easily besiege it
Daemons did carry the siege.
"My primarch, we've recieved a transmission from The Warmaster."
"Are we actually getting something in The form of reinforcements?"
"No, he said, and I quote, 'Lol, Rogal could've done this fast. Ask if he's free.' end quote."
"... Fuck it. We're leaving."
"What about your brothers?"
"Fuck em."
My take on the Dorn/Perty debate is that they equal in similar but different fields.
Dorn was the Architectural Engineer.
Perty was the Mechanical Engineer.
Dorn built things.
Perty broke things.
They could do the other's jobs but not as well as their own.
Side note: Dorn wasn't holding the Palace against Perty. He was holding out against Perty *and* Horus and Mortarion. When Perty left, the Siege got stuck again.
The Iron Cage was post-siege, when Dorn was emotionally exhausted (from having to put Dad on the chair and bury Sangy and Horus), mentally drained, with impaired judgment and weakened forces.
At no point did the two have a proper, fully staffed, in their elements, with sound minds 1v1.
Exactly. No two Primarchs are carbon copies of one another, no two primarchs are completely interchangeable (except maybe Alpharius and Omegon).
Pretty much the only thing that's holding back Peter Turbo from being held with the same esteem as Guilliman, except in Chaos, is his just plain awful attitude towards everything. Like, when Perturabo's plans start to go sideways, for whatever reason... he kind of gives up in frustration and just decides to indiscriminantly bomb allies and enemies alike. Talk about one of the worst trait for a commander and strategist to have: not being able to keep a cool head and roll with the punches. Or like when he does something not as well as someone else, he can't handle that either. Like, how are you supposed to improve if you don't have the humility to admit where you still need work?
Would be funny if perty somehow heard this, and in the future most successful black crusade ever. Perty shows at the loyalist side and flips the entire thing into one giant middle finger right back into the eye of terror and just leaves.
Wholesome redemption arc
Honestly, despite the victim complex I like Peter more because he actually wanted to be more than a tool for the Emperor. If only Big E could have had each Primarch take therapy before getting their legions, to cut off any bad behaviour signs early, bur he really didn't get the illogical human mind...
Didn’t Horus complained that he got the Weaker Half of the primarchs. He wanted Gulliman but gotten Lorgar, He wanted ferrus but gotten Morty. He wanted Dorn but gotten Perty, he wanted the Lion but gotten Fulgrim.
Why did he want ferrus manus over mortarion
@@jeremyvenville1531 Quite apart from anything else, Ferrus didn't have a mountain of Daddy Issues like Mortarion did.
The notion that Ferrus Manus is the stronger of any primarch save Logar is histerical. That headless baboon was trash.
@@Guardsman-sy8qm well GW decided to Tell instead of Show when it came to Ferrus Might. All the primarchs have their specialities, Gulliman with logistics, Logar with the Masses, Dorn with the fortifications and so on.
What was the Iron Hands Primarch specifically good at according to the other primarchs.
War
Literally war in all its aspects. Apparently he was an all rounder. He might not be first or even second but he was the third or fourth best at it when it came to war. There wasn’t a type of warfare he’d be at a disadvantage at.
Dorn can’t stealth for shit and Corvax can’t do frontal assaults. Gulliman might have a few specialist for various things but his sons can’t do everything.
Again this is tales from the other primarchs. GW left them hanging for dust when it comes to how he actually operates
@@jeremyvenville1531fr
Cue “iron cage”
If they had swapped places and it was Rogal sieging and Perty defending, the traitors really wouldn't have liked that.
Perty makes it pretty clear his idea of defense is "If they're all dead they can't attack anymore can they?"
Horus probably would have had to deal with multiple heavily defended planets, each turning out to be a trap, and probably Perty making fucking stars explode on Horus as well.
Like there's a distinctive chance Horus never would have made it to terra at all, the cost would be that almost every loyalist legion would be exhausted or destroyed.
@@Nyghtking That's literally the Iron Cage dude.
@@scribese7en I know, i'm referring to it being on a much larger and more destructive scale then the iron cage ever was.
Wasn't the Iron Cage basically an overly complex way to commit suicide for Dorn!
@@GetsugaTensho85 Sort of, the iron cage was perty taking advantage of Dorn being angry, forcing him into a brutal slud of a battle, rigged in every way so perty and his legion would have the advantage, essentially every fight during the iron cage was on the iron warriors terms, and the true fortification was actually an underground tunnel network that connected everything along with masses of supplies, Dorn and his legion never found out about it.
If it wasn't for the ultrmarines coming in Dorn's whole legion would have been wiped out and he would have been killed, all the while having inflicted only minor damage to perty's legion.
Part of it was because perty had tricked Dorn into thinking that the large structure at the center of the battlefield was his base, but when Dorn's legion fought their way through all the defenses to get there, it turned out to be a ill box with no safe zones.
Perty had played Dorn from the start.
Perhaps the complex, cumbersome plans were that way BECAUSE he was going up against Dorn, who had equally dizzying and daunting defenses.
I'm just going to say that the Chaos high is making Horus overly whiny and hostile. Perturabos trying his hardest
Damn, Horus was basically speaking with the voice of chaos undivided at that point, so that means that even all 4 chaos gods think Rogal is better 🤣
I like that Perturabo's entire reason for going against the Emperor was because he felt he and his legion had been taken for granted. Then that happened 10 fold with his chaos aligned brothers.
Still cant believe he became a demon prince. I feel like he would have rejected that out of spite.
Angel Exterminatus.His soul got shanked by Fulgrim and he would have died if he didn't become a demon.
Brah Horus was just trashing talking. This is the same Horus that commented that he thought everyone on his side was defective. Horus knew that his side was the broken side fueled by chaos, and that messed with his mind. So he saw everyone the sided with him as inherently less than because they were. They had broken there words and were traitors.
edit to add.
Horus though he was was the hero, then he looked around and saw that the only people that sided with him were people that he already knew were the "problem children ". That had to make him question himself, but he had already committed too much. He couldn't walk up to Big E and go
"Im so sorry, i didnt realize how bad of an idea this was until ol night hunter over told me "How great of idea this was ". Sorry can i come back home "
Perturabo’s biggest strength is his unbreakable stubbornness. That dude just can’t be bothered
Yeah I can see that conversation
Horus- DORN! Join me!
Dorn-......no....
The grass is always greener on the other side. Ain't it, Horus?
Man... Horus disrespecting Perturabo like that. Horus, Perturabo CARRIED THE HERESY. Y'all never would have made it to Terra without him.
Unfortunate truth for Horus is the Heresy was two competent Legions, one Legion pissed Daddy took away their science experiments, one Legion in it for the memes, and a bunch of short bus rejects...
Seriously:
* Fulgrim - Dude was in it just for that Slanussy.
* Curze - Him and his entire Legion were PTSD incarnate, and didn't participate in the Seige of Terra.
* Angron - He was basically Chunk from the Goonies but Grim-dark emo.
* Mortarion - Almost not a short-bus reject, but Typhon existed.
* Lorgar - He betrayed you, and Erebus is a dick-weasel.
That's more than half your Primarchs Horus who just didn't give a crap about YOUR Heresy. Who is left? Magnus? Yeah, he cared after Prospero, but he wasn't going to plan the Seige. Alpharius? He was competent, but he is a meme lord. Heck, you don't know if he actually is alive or dead.
Seriously, in terms of competence, capability, and motivation it was Horus and Perturabo.
Pretty sure it would only be Perty that would have had the competency to lead the siege. By this point of the heresy, Horus was batshit insane thanks to all the chaos cool-aid he had been drinking.
Perty was 90% of the Siege- the other 10% were the Death Guard lol
Horus was trying to convince himself that he didnt need Peter Turbo.
Horus talking a lot of shit about someone who absolutely carried his whole fucking heresy, a Sisyphean task as it was!
Perty didnt carry the heresy, but he did carry the seige.
He would've done given the chance. He's by far the most competent heretic.
Horus: "I actually never needed you."
Pedro Turbo: "Aight, I'm out then"
Horus: "Later loser" (proceeds to fail the siege on Terra and die in the process)
Damn! Horus did not mince words here…
This makes it seem like Perturabo’s passive Primarch ability is to be Underestimated & taken for-granted.
Which seems like it would be a curse, until you consider all he has overcome.
Horus really unappreciated the brother who legit carried his bitch ass and all his Traitor brothers through his ignorant rebellion.
I'm a Rogal fan, I love the Imperial Fists and Black Templars, but I do love Perturabo and his Iron Warriors, they are the real threat, they were the ones who really just would've torn it all down, but the rivalry between Pert and Dorn, that was its own statement and testament. The fucking Iron Cage? Bro, it still blows my mind. Astartes versus Astartes, just absolutely mind breaking when Imperial Fists got fucking slaughtered.
Horus was just that Gary Sue figurehead and even Pert knew to use the chaos gods as a tool, to never cross that level of corruption. Idk, I think Pert coming back to rematch with the returning primarchs would be way more epic than anything Abbadon would do. You imagine Pert just putting Abbadon in his place and taking over with Vashtor empowering Perturabo.
That would be actually sick. And great as fuck. But he seeks now the cure for his never healing wound
@@dawidadamaszwili6064 true lol
Perturabo did bugger all to actually help the traitors reach Terra. He’s off on his own side quests for 90% of the Horus heresy.
His own side quests like "go get Angron and his legion for the Siege" or "go help Fulgrim with his BS?" Without Perturabo, Horus would've had the Alpha Legion, Death Guard, and his own Son's of Horus as his only full strength legion forced to fight Dorn. It wouldn't have been a contest.
@@Guardsman-sy8qm Lorgar could have been sent to grab Angron instead of Fulgrim. Good ol power of true names.
And note, that the grabbing of Angron happens at the tail end of the war. The vast majority of it has happened and passed.
Fulgrim’s BS was a side quest, and it was preluded by two other sides quests from Perty: Phall and Hydra Cordatus. It was then followed by a rather lengthy side quest on Tallarn after getting stuck in the warp for years.
Perty doesn’t carry the traitors to Terra, he’s one of the damn anchors slowing them down. He only starts carrying once we reach the Siege.
I like how after this Perturabo was like “Nah, I am tired to carry this dogshit team” and left.
I think it's interesting that Perturabo and Dorn are often compared, I'm not sure if it's true or not but wasn't it stated somewhere that if the Sons of Horus and Imperial fists were to ever fight each other full force the battle would be a stalemate because neither side would be able to get the upper hand?
Horus himself said that before his chaos corruption
@@Haloister thank you
Horus probably forgot that Perty made Rogal the Praetorian of Terra question his ability to protect the Imperial Palace.
Horus basically said "Perturabo is Rogal Dorn at home."
The man defeated Demon angron in single combat, beat fulgrim in one hit while weakened, breached the walls of the imperial palace and then baited rogal Dorn so bad into a trap so bad that he had to be saved by his brother after loosing hundreds of space marines, but he’s the inferior one, yeah ok
Didn't Dorn back to back Angron, Ascended Fulgrim, and Samus? Also held out with far inferior numerically, and arguably qualitative forces, in a hopeless no win scenario till it became a desperate bid for the traitors to actually win before the ACTUAL Imperial forces arrived? Like in terms of what a Siege is Dorn full stop proved he was better than Perty. Sure Pert breached the walls, but who won the Siege? Oh right. Both sides calm in their right minds? Dorn IS definitively the better of the two.
@@Haloister dorn needed help just to beat alpharius, the only three primarch that were given the hardest battle in the entirety of the great crusade were perturabo, the Kahn, and mortarion, dorn created the pain glove because he’s marines caught the beat down by the iron warriors and he did all that while refusing any help from the chaos gods
@@Haloister and when did dorn ever beat angron? And wasn’t it nathaniel garro that beat the lord of flies on the terran moon after dorn found him
@hectorsanchez7581 I might be confusing his fight with Angron with something else. But I know for a FACT he soloed Ascended Fulgrim and Samus. Also, as a side, the pain glove was a thing prior to the Iron Cage.
@@HaloisterI need to look this up cause I'm a huge dorn fan and I cannot remember him fighting fulgrim
I mean, to be fair... Peter Turbo did break through everything Rogal threw at him, sooooo.
Quick question. Who won the Siege?
@Haloister The Loyalists but by sheer luck and last-minute saves.
@@Haloister quick answer.. Horus Being an Idiot and remove the only Capable Primarch on the field and the replacement cannot do anything and proceed to lose the war.
@@Haloister if Horus let Perty finish the Siege. That would be a different story.. The moment Perty left the Siege the traitors Effectiveness Plummet..
@bigmonkeking9067 Hey you know how a siege works right? You hold off the attacking force until either they run out of steam or a relief force arrives. You know those exact things Dorn did. You know what a victorious siege looks like for the defenders. Soooooooo yeah
“As a favor, something for him to do”
Perty carrying the entire heresy on his back
Oh Perturabo? The guy you sent after Daemon Angron?
The guy who fended off guilliman as the traitors pushed on?
The lad who despite being fucked over by the Emperor's Children, maintained his oath & fought for you?
The man who brought siege engines?
The fucker that was granted the worst jobs, the destain of his brothers despite them never offering help but relying on him & his sons constantly?
The bastard that was finally in the flow state, ripping down the palace on terra when you couldn't be bothered to address him, ordering through a chain that command be granted to Mortarion? (I love Mortarion but this wasn't his moment)
Fuckn hell Horus, you're lucky you had the mental capacity to get Ferrus spawnkilled if this is where we ended up.
(Justice for Ferrus)
Best description of Perturabo's "family"...
Worth noting that at this point Horus was so corrupted and drunk on chaos cool aid he didn't realise his equerry was Argonis, and that Maloghurst was long dead.
you have to remember that Horus and Dorn were really close friends, so this is obviously Horus lamenting Dorn being called back to Tera by the Emperor before the start of the Heresy. he is being emotional and lashing out at a undeserving Pertarabo, who was the only reason they made it as far as they did. the Iron Cage proved that Pert and Dorn a just about equal.
THANK YOU for quoting Horus about Rogal and PeterTurbo!! *claps*
Nah, Horus, don't get to talk shit on Perty. Horus wouldn't have even gotten to Terra without Perty holding all of it together, being the only one to resist chaos as well. None of the Chaos Primarchs would've been able to scratch Terra's defenses without Perty masterminding the siege. Perty hard carried while Horus acted all smug and powerful, Fulgrim made cocaine out of Terra's people, and Angron was just an attack dog. Also, Perty bent over Rogal at the Iron Cage again proving who is the superior Siege Master.
This, more than anything, shows how clouded Horus' vision was. Perty wasn't the best, but in that lot he was *the* best. And more over, he honestly was one of the choice picks out of all of them, because of the things he did not involving blunt force trauma.
Yeh but who's still alive Horus 😂
Maybe if Perty didn’t quit like a bitch he would’ve had the same fate.
I feel like Horus would've insulted whoever was at his side. If he had Dorn he would talked about how much he wished he had Perturabo. If he had the Khan instead of Fulgrim he would've wished for Fulgrim. He was refusing to take any blame for his misgivings at this point due to his ego.
The loss of Perturabo to Chaos was probably one of the worse losses the Imperium had, right after the Emperor being severely wounded and the loss of the webway project.
Just think. Perturabo can literally rebuild Dark Age of Technology just by looking at it. Now imagine loyalist Perturabo rebuilding the Castigator Titan...
Dorn, what does Dorn have? A Phalanx star fortress he randomly found and could never rebuild again.
The loss of Perterabo to Chaos wasn't that catastrophic. Because the Iron Warrior were depleted and ground down by the missions that the Emperor gave him.
Like the fight against the Hrud. Or the countless sieges he was forced to wage. Leading to attrition rates so terrible that it cause an uprising on Olympia. Which then Led to Perterabo slaughtering his own people, having a break down, and joining Horus.
Honestly if you look at the traitor side this pattern repeats. The Emperors Children battered by their battle against the Laer. And Mortarians legions sent to do the dirtiest, most hazardous fighting.
I know that the emperor didn't see the heresy coming. But it sure is funny how the traitor legions got the most hazardous jobs that broke them before the heresy even started.
The Lord of Iron single handedly carried the Horus Heresy by himself and once he left it all fell apart . Horus knows this
But, was Horus just retaliating because Perturabo took his toys and went home?
Yes.
Horus is deluding himself here. Peter Turbo was hard-carrying the Horus Heresy at this point and when he finally had enough and said "Screw you guys, I'm going home" it left Horus with no other plan then to bait the Emperor into a duel which he ultimately lost.
Horus: If I don't trash talk Perty, the gods may favor him over me. Can't have that, who'd smack daddy as good as I can? I mean, if I wasn't found first I might not have been made warmaster. Who, besides about 20 others, could have done a better job at that than I?
panache
noun
flamboyant confidence of style or manner.
"he entertained Palm Springs society with great panache"
Horus is that elder brother that now’s everything about his younger brothers🫡
Last I checked panache is useless in a siege that's why horus and his dumb ass got his soul obliterated.
In a way this kinda highlights just how deluded Horus became towards the end of his life, Perturabo was the backbone of the entire siege and only really failed because Horus fulgrim Mortarion and Angron couldn’t still still when they were told and Dorn was anxious of petutabo every step of the siege.
Horus, Angron, or any of the other Traitor Primarch die: Heretic strength is at 99%
Perturabo dies: Heretic strength is at 1%
I remember reading that part and having a small chuckle.
Bro roasted the man who hard carried the campaign 😭😭💀💀
Thanks for the short
I think Horus and I have been watching two completely different heresies.
Thats some BOLD disrespect towards the guy that got you too the doorstep of the imperial palace and had dorn on the back foot during the entire siege.
Iron Cage: legion vs legion action
Siege of Terra: most of the traitor legions + the full focus of the chaos gods vs a couple loyalists legions, the Emperor locked on the golden throne and most custodes decimated on the webway.
I know Perty is cool, but carrying the defense of Terra is a bigger feat than anything Perturabo has done.
Oh also blocking the dark Mechanicus from Mars and i repeat myself A SIEGE ORCHESTRATED BY CHAOS UNDIVIDED WITH HORUS AT THE HEAD, ain't no one else in the universe capable of defending that, while also resisting Khorne tentation
So yea, i think Rogal would have carried the Heresy better than Perturabo
but lets be honest here, the rest of the traitor legions werent exactly premium allies; with all of them being some combination of insane or incompetent. The world eaters and the emperors children being especially useless. Im sure perty would have traded them in a heartbeat for the blood angels and whatever custodes remained
Cope
i think herding a force of insane roided up mutated dickheads is harder to do than fighting them.
With most of allies from chaos side being completely uncontrollable and willing to put superiority one after another and often don't give a shit about the orders. That's huge advantage that can outshine almost any disadvantage. What is a point of army, that can't even be controlled to go in one direction?
That's Horus' interpretation.
What actually happened is that Perturabo was carrying the Heresy during the Invasion of Terra, and when the traitors kept infighting and taking his glories for their own, he left out of sheer bitterness.
The only reason the traitors got as far as they did was because Perturabo was the best at siege. Once he left, the traitors began to struggle hard.
He orchestrated the Istvaan, destroyed 3 entire legions and cracked open Terra.
Horus: "Rogal Dorn is better than Perturabo"
Perturabo: Proceeds to build a death trap labyrinth that would've wiped out Dorn and the Imperial Fists, had they not been pulled out by their allies.
Wasn't that whole thing specifically because Dorn felt he was responsible for E's enthronment and rushed into the battle without plans and without any care if he lived or died?
@@gothpunkboy89 As I remember it, this was more personal against the Iron Warriors because they built a big fortress and more or less taunted Dorn and the Imperial Fists, and they couldn't let it slide.
I don't remember the aspects you are mentioning, but I can't in good conscience dismiss it either, as it sounds highly likely.
@@TheSpoegefugl 40k Lex website seems to support most of what I said. Dorn specifically went there not only to get Pert but also for his entire legion to metaphorically enter a pain glove. Also that the attack was launched without the usual planning and preparation the Fists usually operated under.
It was a deliberate act you moron. The fists weren’t about to be disrespected by bobby g and accept his book. Bobby g loved his book so much he was willing to kill his brother and his sons if they didn’t accept it. Dorn then had to make the sacrifice of losing his sons either way, and decided to at least kill some traitors. Fists made planet fall and suicide rushed the eternal fortress. The quote is something like “it seemed that the two legions would simply kill each other to a man” (which is kind of embarrassing for the IW when you think about it) but Bobby g didn’t think Dorn could kill Peter in a 1v1 so he showed up. (But couldn’t even stop Peter from leaving, good job dumbass).
Horus acting like the whole reason they even got that far in the siege was because of Mr. Peter Turbo
Horus smoking some warp dust
Perterabo busted his ass
Also Horus: im giving command over to Mortarion,
The cardboard cut out of a brother whos main claim to fame is he a good pysker.
... Where is my honour guard?
I also think it would be better if Rogal Dorn were with Horus. Then he would have put all his strength into a stupid frontal attack, Renegade Legions would have quickly ended, and Horus’ stupid head would have flown off his shoulders even before arriving in the Solar system. Perturabo did not deserve to be under the command of degenerates.
Rogal Dorn is not Angron. You must be mistaken. Reread the books. Rogal Dorn is the kind to have foreseen all eventualities and prepared contingency plans for all of them, ALL of them. The Rogal Dorn from before the ascension of the Emperor was actually a better tactician and at siegecraft than Perturabo because he was more mentally stable. Simply put the siege and seing the Emperor mortally wounded and trapped into the golden throne broke him. The Rogal Dorn entering the iron cage without scouting the place is someone wanting desperatly to atone for his perceived failures through his own death if need be.
Exactly what i wanted to say.
If Perty and Dorn switched sides, the traitors wouldn't be able to do shit.
Iron Cage shows as much.
Love every part where Horus sees the brothers that joined him and realizes “Damn, I got the losers”
That quip about "panache" is horseshit, and why neither Horus nor Dorn know what they're on about when it comes to Perturabo. Horus is talking like the Primarchs are painters or artists only. They're not. They're soldiers. Generals. And moreso, they're weapons. It seems that they forgot that. But Perty didn’t. That's why he's so uncompromising in his fighting. He shows up to destroy the enemy, win the fight, and move on to the next. While Fulgrim preens his feathers, Horus basks in the cheers of others, and Rogal admires another painting, Perturabo spends his time in the worst fights of the Great Crusade. The only reason any of them fooled themselves into thinking Rogal's better is because they didn't pay attention to Perturabo. Even if he's a petulant manchild.
Rogal Dorn has style, but Perturabo gets shit done. Iron Within.
Even with steep casualties for Marines and subbordinant Imperial Army Formations, Perturabo atill manages to have a consistent 100k strong Legion. His logistical skills are supreme. As a naval ckmmander, he's tactically brilliant. As a scientist, he's in fhe league with Mannus and Vulkan.
One thing alot of readers seem to fail to grasp is that Perturabo was being sent to every war of attrition imaginable against peer threats. Whenever a force fights near peer or peer adversaries you get situations like the Western Front of the Great War. Panache isn't going to change what's about to happen
Just like the Lion took immense casualties in the Xenocides, Perturabo took immense casualties in everyone if his campaigns from the black Judges, to the Saktrada deeps. The difference between his eldest sibbling and his legion and Perturabo's fourth, is that Perturabo bounces back rapidly and pushes on to the next. No other legion oppeested under such pressure and was that successful. Iron without iron within.
So does rogal, in saturnine perturabo throws a fit after abbadon tells him even if he wins against rogal everyone knows it's because he had the neverborn legions and warpcraft something perturabo claimed to despise. Like mortarion he is a hypocrite, his iron within was rusted.
That's a funny thing to say about the guy who carried your entire heresy on his fucking back from step on to step ten
Who tf is Perturabo? Judging by the description, this noname is a cheap version of Dorn
This has gotta be the single most shit for brains comment on a Warhammer lore vid I’ve ever read
Actually quite the opposite infact dorn feared peter turbo
Bait used to be believable
@@AYAKXSHIHe didn't he just knew he was a threat but to say rogal was scared of him is wrong.
Peter Turbo needs to return to the setting ASAP
Rogal Dorn it's literally the Jonh Wick description: it's a man of focus...
Horus the kind of guy to say someone else lacks panache lol
"Hehe, even faster if i goaded him"
That actually broke my heart a bit