It seems like the pinnipeds might also have another advantage. All the other predators had fully developed flippers, not forelimbs that could grip in any way. If the pinnipeds could hold the nautiloids, even just to keep it somewhat immobile, it would give those piercing jaws an even bigger advantage
Same here. Nautiloids are my favorite sea creatures. They are just so bizarre and far from the natural line of evolution. Like a giant snail tried to eat a squid and instead it simply absorbed it and they became one. Or maybe an octopus was evolutionarily inspired by hermit crabs. 😂
Sealvision: Sees friendly swirled hard candy trying to swim away, so it catches and eats the sweet treat. Reality: Nautilus swimming away for its life, and then being caught and crunched on.
I would have never have assumed that Pinnipeds were a potential cause of Nautiloids declining. The Nautiloids out lasted, placoderms, ichthyosaurs, mosasaurs, plesiosaurs and marine crocodilians and even thrived with sharks. Perhaps Pinnipeds may have been prone to heavily preying on Nautiloids in the past due to their high metabolisms ?
@@feandil666 Combination probably. As Mammals they have both higher metabolisms that means they need to eat more, and also high intelligence. And as species like the Elephant Seal show, even going deeper isn't a garuantee of safety.
@@dosadnizub im just taking a guess on this one but from the diagrams shown in the video it seems like in the past there were signs of nautiloids being in more of the ocean areas but it also showed these as being areas the pinnipeds moved into but just arent living in anymore due to the environment changing but thats all assuming what they were showing was accurate and not just a visual example
@@dosadnizub the impact that pinnipeds may have had on nautiloids could be explained by breeding patterns. If nautiloids breeding areas were/are typically in shallower coastal waters, then that could explain their disappearance from the open ocean. Pinnipeds wouldn't have to venture out there to have an impact in that scenario. It would similar to how humans slaughtered pinnipeds & penguins, and wiped out the Great Auk. We attacked their breeding colonies. Orca do the same thing, their favourite hunting grounds are the breeding sites of their prey.
the chambered nautilus is my favourite animal there was a lot I didn't know about beforehand in this video I wish the nautiloids another hundreds of millions of years no matter how small their habitat might become
I always see these large, decorative slabs of limestone near schools and parks. When I looked closer at them, I noticed they're absolutely covered with sea creature fossils! Not just one or two of the blocks, but pretty much every single one I've ever looked at, regardless of location. I found out later limestone basically IS made of crushed up shells of ancient animals, so even the stone itself is a fossil. I'm far from an expert, but some of it looks like it they could be nautiloids, and there are lots of ammonites and horn corals. It's a shame because a lot of these are just a couple of hundred yards from schools which have no idea the treasure trove of education sitting right outside their doors. I'm tempted to write the schoolboard and suggest they look into working this into their syllabus. It's like a field trip without ever having to leave the school or spend any money.
What I think is fascinating about this is that since no animal evolved to replace the niche nautiloids did (the shelled nektonic niche), the pierce feeding strategy of the pinnipeds not only extirpated the nautiloids from most of the world's oceans; it essentially rendered the shelled nektonic niche non viable. Why I see this is profound is that it throws a monkey wrench into the way we view evolutionary ecology were an organisms fills a niche, goes extinct only to have another organism fill the niche. Here, the niche itself was eliminated by an evolutionary innovation.
@@Kmr571-l8y They don't have to be top predators to have a profound affect. Feral cats aren't "top predators" in Australia (Dingos do sometimes kill cats) but they still have a devastating impact on the native fauna.
I don't know where you got the notion of the second paragraph from, but evolutionary biologists already know that. It's mostly paleontology enthusiasts that think because so many convergent 3volution cases happened, there always be something to fill the niche of something if they went extinct. Which that notion alone is wrong because an ecological niche is not a role in the ecosystem something could fill. Because niches is a mix of specific environmental variables where the animal population can thrive and reproduce. Thus no niches are exactly the same. Let's say if someday the aardvarks went extinct, does that mean striped hyenas will fill the niche of aardvarks and convergently evolve their traits? No, they have totally different ecology and there are so many termites and ants that competition is virtually non existent. While sure perhaps a population of striped hyenas may further specializes in termite and perhaps evolve stronger claws or long tongues, but that doesn't mean the end result have to be an Aardvark or pangolin or anteater 2.
Now, I am imagining the world where the cephalapod-like civilization has been developed and they have to run and hide in fear from some sort of deadly seals! Just imagine how terrifying that would be as a nautiloid!
pinnipeds as nautiloid predators... makes sense. carnivorans (really all therapsids) seem predestined to very strong bites, which is useful in cracking shells.
@@andreiryancaballero7422 well the neck theory doesnt really make sense either, but its pretty clear thats what happened. i suppose the real answer is... suction? nautiloids didnt have to deal with any sort of super suction based hunter since the eugenodonts, so i suppose that couldve been how seals dominated.
It's the same every time: Starting an eons video, recognising the different hosts with the first spoken word long before seeing them on screen. Makes me smile every time. Interesting topics in well written and edited videos hosted by great science communicators. Triple Win! 🥳
It seems most pinnipeds need cold water (below 20°C) to thrive. They mostly live in arctic or moderate seas or along cold currents in warmer or even tropical regions. The Indo-Pacific is generally speaking too warm for them.
I've always been fascinated by the Nautilus and it's longevity, I even bought a Nautilus Shell I found at a seaside curiosity store! To think how ancient the lineage is, they are truly living fossils!
Something still doesn't add up here. 1) Pinnipeds, with the exception of the now extinct Caribbean Monk Seal (their populations were never high historically iirc) have been notoriously absent from the oceans around Central America, to add to that the Puerto Rican Trench could have provided a refuge even if pinnipeds had been numerous there at some point in the last 30 million years. 2) There are plenty of fish species that have the ability to extract a mollusk from its shell. So it presumably can't just be that reason alone, if at all. 3) There are pelagic cephalopods (squids & argonauts) in open water, a place that a lot of pinnipeds rarely frequent due to lack of a place to rest & food is spread too thin (i.e. there are no pelagic pinnipeds to my knowledge). So if pinnipeds were the problem then nautiloids should have still persisted in the open ocean near the surface like argonauts. 4) I find it hard to believe that the ecological niche that pinnipeds now occupy was never filled in over the 470 million years prior that could have evolved such a detrimental strategy to the nautiloids.
I'm not sure if there are fishes that eat nautiluses on a regular basis. There are many fish groups (e.g. labrids) that are adapted to eat hard-shelled animals as mollluscans and crustaceans but they are bottom-feeders and I find unlikely that most of them can handle the nektonic nautiluses.
The guy makes some reasonable points with a clear intention to learn and debate, an all you guys come up with is some basic insults and the always useless "go do it yourself then lmao". Real funny that you respond to criticism in a science channel with blatant anti-intellectualism. I'm no better either...
A couple others have pointed out that pinnipeds maintain some degree of manipulation ability with their forelimbs, which could allow them to more effectively immobilize nautiloids once they caught them, giving them an edge over other animals with a similar feeding style. I've got nothing for the questions relating to geographic extent though, something to dig into.
For how predator-proof the nautiloids are, it's wild that a predator can eat them, let alone cute pinnipeds sucking them out of their shells! Pinnipeds are METAL
I take it for what it is in terms of Eons finally talking about seals, although their evolution is mysterious. I'm hoping you'll talk about this for a long time. Also burning question in my mind: what made the indo-pacific region of the ocean inhabitable for the early seals? That is pretty interesting to know.
Wow, this was really interesting. Like not only the teeth allowing seals to piece shells, but also their paws early pinnipeds had to hold onto and manipulate nautiloids in ways that early whales couldn't, given they arose from ungulates instead of carnivores
Thank you for sharing! BTW that doesn't count for deep sea specialists like the Allonautili which, for whatever reason, seem to be also restricted to the southern Pacific around New Guinea and the Solomon Islands.
I found the outro with reference to where the fossils came from citing the original native inhabitants to be fantastic. It's a small thing but I think it's great
Nautiloid: "I am a living tank, perfected by 500 million years of evolution and the survival of numerous global extinction events, nothing could possibly threaten me." Pinnipeds: *børk* Nautiloids: *AAG-*
@@johnthumble5154 There always has to be one troll, doesn't there? Congrats on winning today's first place ribbon in recognition of your trolling efforts and lack of respect to the original inhabitants of the Americas
@@morganbonczek6428 trolling implies I don't believe what I'm saying and only do it to get a rise. You like many other leftards seem to struggle with basic definitions.
What happened to Konstantin’s studio? Also, this host has improved by 150% since she started. I was critical at first so I have to point out how much better their presentation is now!
Can I point out an error on the maps? Pinnipeds are found in Lake Baikal! Can we get an episode on how snd why there’s this one freshwater seal? It’d be pretty neat, I think
Nautiloids are my favorite sea creatures. They are just so bizarre and far from the natural line of evolution. Like a giant snail tried to eat a squid and instead it simply absorbed it and they became one. Or maybe an octopus was evolutionarily inspired by hermit crabs. 😂
An interesting proposal, but it comes with a large contradictory question that hasn't been answered and was frankly ignored completely. If it really is true that pinnipeds, likely the phocids or true seals specifically since they is the better adapted family for shellfish foraging, were the determining factor in the decline of the remaining nautiloid groups after the K-PG extinction then why is the Indo-Pacific interchange region the final stronghold of their distribution? It's not enough to simply say that there are no pinnipeds there, as you also have to propose why pinnipeds never expanded their range there in the past and why they can't currently migrate there to finish them off. This hypothesis also doesn't explain why nautiloids were extripated in the Indian Ocean as well since pinnipeds never radiated there to prey on them either. Despite my criticisms though, I actually like this hypothesis a lot in some areas and would love to see it and it's contradictions researched further.
I feel like there's a few follow up papers to be found in those questions! :D At first I was thinking maybe seals don't live in warm waters in general, but the video made it obvious that wasn't quite true. If water depth is also a factor though, might that be one of the differences for the Indian Ocean too? Maybe there were other critters out-competing the nautiloids there, in other ways than predation? Which would still leave pinnipeds as the "major" cause of the vanishing nautiloids. Or maybe there was a kind of one-two punch, already pressured by whatever other competition existed, when the pinnipeds moved in, the nautiloids just couldn't deal with BOTH sources of trouble at once?
"why they don't migrate to finish them off" seems like an odd question to me; the seals aren't seeking them out, they don't even know they exist, and probably have no interest in going to such warm waters without food resources being an issue, as most seals in that area are arctic acclimated species or at least descended from them
I can see pinnipeds as a posible treat to them. And that's on the huge numbers they congregate on. Imagine a huge colony of Arctocephalus pusillus. They fill kleen up a hole region of the ocean near one of their colonys. Not to mention that when they are not in colonys they scatered across the sea to find food. If there is an advantage or an easy pray to chach they would go after it. Also. The colonys move across time so today they may be on the southern tip.of africa but if the clima changes or the sea corrents do they will move across the map and star another huge colony in anny oter suitable place. (And that must have hapened... we are talking of million of years). Another factor in play is taste. Marine mamals will go far away or trough a lot of truble for a tastyer meal. Maybe nautiloids are to sea mamals like chocolate is to us. Mmm... nauthuloids.
@@aff77141 true, but if there's a food source that an animal is uniquely qualified to exploit, typically over time that animal will be able to adapt to slightly warmer temperatures or slightly deeper depths to exploit it
Cephalopods are divided into two living subclasses Nautilaceae (Nautili and Fossil Relatives) and Coleaceae (Squid, Cuttlefish, Octopi, and Vampire Squid).
i hypothesise that saltwater crocs could be to problematic for seals, if you look at the range of salties and the range of nautiluses you will see they are very similar
An excellent video, with a solid hypothesis…but I have one MAJOR problem with it…Plate Tectonics. The surface of the Earth has not always looked as it does today.
Example of an introduced predator making a mess of life for a successful creature: in Antarctica, dogs were introduced, and they started preying upon penguins. Dogs have since been banned there, so they can no longer remain as the Tiger of the Antarctic.
Love what you’ve done with your hair! I agree with another commenter on here that the pinnipeds ability to grab with their forelimbs definitely played a major part in their predation on nautiloids.
That was awesome! I mean I hate huge extensions but I love using carnival good old fashion, detective techniques to solve million year old questions. Thank you.
i theorise that saltwater crocs could be to problematic for seals, if you look at the range of salties and the range of nautiluses you will see they are very similar
Very cool that you made sure to publish acknowledgement of indigenous inhabitants I like that a lot. Does anyone know when the fossil record stops producing fossils per se.
How does shell thickness relate to depth? The pressure of water is high, but so is the animals internal pressure. We can't go down there because our internal pressure is relative to ambient air pressure, like they can't come up here.
Maybe same reason to why shallow fish can’t go deep and deep fish can’t swim shallow. Their internal pressure also coincides with their place, and thick shells allow adaptability
The sturdier the shell, the more the animal can pressurise it to deal with changing pressures. Release pressure in the shallows, build it up in the depths.
If that's so, to allow them a greater difference internally:ambient depth pressure, then where are their eyes? Under the shell would make them pointless, but if not, they are exposed. Besides, the pressure doesn't act only on the shell, it squishes every nook & cranny, top or bottom. So water would force its way into the shell, between the shell & flesh.
@@Iowa599 Well I'm sorry, that's literally just how it works. The thicker shells allow for lower depths, as it holds up to the pressure. The soft parts of the nautilus are able to resist the pressure with deformation, rather than the shell which if it was too weak would shatter. Now, Nautiloids can get something similar to the bends, if they fill their shell with water too rapidly, but for the most part they control how bouyant they are. The shell behaves as a brittle ma- terial under stress: with increased pressure, deformation is gradual and linear up to the point of implosion. The reason for the nautilus' greater depth tolerance, while retaining simple sutures, is simply that they have thicker shells than the ...
Also the problem could be that there were just too many seals and too few predators keeping them in check. Might be a bit different today with us humans around, maybe the nautiloids will bounce back once we've dealt with the seals.
... Then Everything changed when the seal nation attacked! Only Aturia, master of all four elements, could stop them, but when the world needed them most, they vanished.
Out of all the animals that hunt cephalopoda sea mammals also seem to be the only ones that have some level of color vision. Makes one wonder at how much of this led to the mimicry found in cuttlefish and some other members of its family.
I always find it hard to believe that a predator in an open environment can drive a prey to extinction. Yes, a predator coming to a close ecosystem from a larger one, that's the island situation. But here we're talking about oceans and seas that are all linked to each other. And we are also not just talking about Whales and Mosasaurs, but also all kinds of predators of various sizes, including the weird Triassic ones that were about the same size as a seal - not to mention sea crocodiles that very likely preyed on nautiloids as well, and various kinds of fishes. It seems to me that pinnipeds alone were very likely not the only factor. What about climatic changes? More acidic seas? Competition with other organisms? The pinniped solutions seems too simple to be right. It might have caused directly some species to disappear, but not all nautiloids they encountered.
It seems like the pinnipeds might also have another advantage. All the other predators had fully developed flippers, not forelimbs that could grip in any way. If the pinnipeds could hold the nautiloids, even just to keep it somewhat immobile, it would give those piercing jaws an even bigger advantage
Yeah, I thought "gripping paws" was going to be the answer
Also seals can take nautiloids to the land and deal with them there
Their fate was sealed..
My thoughts exactly!
How about nothosaurus? Too weak ?
You could say their fates were... sealed!
The pun it hurts!
dies*
Approved
Take this upvote and get out!!
Damn, you beat me to it.
Nautiloids and other cephalopods with shells were always so fascinating to me
They are like the iconic paleontology icons
This is why I got an ammonite shell as my first tattoo!
Same here. Nautiloids are my favorite sea creatures. They are just so bizarre and far from the natural line of evolution. Like a giant snail tried to eat a squid and instead it simply absorbed it and they became one. Or maybe an octopus was evolutionarily inspired by hermit crabs. 😂
I have a nautiloid shell in my collection lol
@@cdk1016 I have a personal affection for trilobites myself. Such a shame they're gone.
Nautiloids: I fear no extinction event, but that thing…
Seal: (slowly bouncing towards the water)
Nautiloids: It scares me.
best rendition so far.
Arf! Arf!
*shivers*
Sealvision: Sees friendly swirled hard candy trying to swim away, so it catches and eats the sweet treat.
Reality: Nautilus swimming away for its life, and then being caught and crunched on.
Seal : *aggressively slaps belly*
Seals do look terribly silly on land. Then they turn into torpedoes in the water.
It’s interesting that pinnipeds also impacted penguin diversity, they outcompete everything
Competition is against species filling the same niche. Pinnipeds prey on penguins, so it's not outcompeting.
i think ancient cetaceans also gave penguin ancestors a run for their money and caused a big decline in their diversity
@@Ezullof No, I don't think that definition is right.
Gods perfect killing machine.
Wait what types of penguins used to exist then?
Nautiloids are the evolutionary equivalent of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
Horseshoe crabs are
Just like sharks and crocs.
The nautiloids didn't disappear. They turned into crabs
Until it broke
@Telendar lmao no they didn't smh wtf did you pull that out of? Cephalopods are not related to crabs nor will they ever evolve into crabs lmao f.f.s
I would have never have assumed that Pinnipeds were a potential cause of Nautiloids declining. The Nautiloids out lasted, placoderms, ichthyosaurs, mosasaurs, plesiosaurs and marine crocodilians and even thrived with sharks. Perhaps Pinnipeds may have been prone to heavily preying on Nautiloids in the past due to their high metabolisms ?
It's probably because they have lips capable of sucking nautiloids out of their shells.
Maybe they're just the most clever
Well, until they will become extinct soon by humans
@@feandil666 dolphins?
@@feandil666 Combination probably. As Mammals they have both higher metabolisms that means they need to eat more, and also high intelligence. And as species like the Elephant Seal show, even going deeper isn't a garuantee of safety.
It would have been interesting to at least mention in passing why pinnipeds aren't present in that area.
Saltwater crocodiles, probably. That part of the world is their "turf".
Also, why nautiloids aren't present in open ocean waters where you don't get seals afaik
@@dosadnizub im just taking a guess on this one but from the diagrams shown in the video it seems like in the past there were signs of nautiloids being in more of the ocean areas but it also showed these as being areas the pinnipeds moved into but just arent living in anymore due to the environment changing
but thats all assuming what they were showing was accurate and not just a visual example
@@dosadnizub the impact that pinnipeds may have had on nautiloids could be explained by breeding patterns. If nautiloids breeding areas were/are typically in shallower coastal waters, then that could explain their disappearance from the open ocean. Pinnipeds wouldn't have to venture out there to have an impact in that scenario. It would similar to how humans slaughtered pinnipeds & penguins, and wiped out the Great Auk. We attacked their breeding colonies. Orca do the same thing, their favourite hunting grounds are the breeding sites of their prey.
Another question.... Pinnipeds now live only in arctic circles thanks to humans, why aren't nautiloids recovering?
the chambered nautilus is my favourite animal
there was a lot I didn't know about beforehand in this video
I wish the nautiloids another hundreds of millions of years no matter how small their habitat might become
or maybe they'll evolve an adaptation that allows them to thrive everywhere again :) they earned their permanent spot on the planet.
I hope seals reach Indonesia very soon. Seal gang seal gang 🦾🦭
@@danieltabin6470 vegetarian seals?🥺
@MrInsdor that would be cool
@@danieltabin6470 I am gonna get the club and well it won’t be nice. Nautilus are superior
I hope the Nautiloids hang around for many more years, they're cool lil' animals
At least the nautilus is still around
Literally saw this yesterday and blew my mind
@@chilling_at_pontiff lemme guess, you knew about ammonites before nautiluses?
Yea you’re right
Nautiloids after surviving countless extinctions: You can’t defeat me!
Earth: I know, but he can!
Pinnipeds:
*round seal sitting on shoreline*
SUPER NICE, didn't even know Nautilus was secluded on to one area
I always see these large, decorative slabs of limestone near schools and parks. When I looked closer at them, I noticed they're absolutely covered with sea creature fossils! Not just one or two of the blocks, but pretty much every single one I've ever looked at, regardless of location. I found out later limestone basically IS made of crushed up shells of ancient animals, so even the stone itself is a fossil. I'm far from an expert, but some of it looks like it they could be nautiloids, and there are lots of ammonites and horn corals.
It's a shame because a lot of these are just a couple of hundred yards from schools which have no idea the treasure trove of education sitting right outside their doors. I'm tempted to write the schoolboard and suggest they look into working this into their syllabus. It's like a field trip without ever having to leave the school or spend any money.
What I think is fascinating about this is that since no animal evolved to replace the niche nautiloids did (the shelled nektonic niche), the pierce feeding strategy of the pinnipeds not only extirpated the nautiloids from most of the world's oceans; it essentially rendered the shelled nektonic niche non viable.
Why I see this is profound is that it throws a monkey wrench into the way we view evolutionary ecology were an organisms fills a niche, goes extinct only to have another organism fill the niche. Here, the niche itself was eliminated by an evolutionary innovation.
Wow but seals aren't the apex predators tho , they also support a chain where orcas and sharks and dolphins and other seals are sitting T top
@@Kmr571-l8y They don't have to be top predators to have a profound affect. Feral cats aren't "top predators" in Australia (Dingos do sometimes kill cats) but they still have a devastating impact on the native fauna.
I don't know where you got the notion of the second paragraph from, but evolutionary biologists already know that. It's mostly paleontology enthusiasts that think because so many convergent 3volution cases happened, there always be something to fill the niche of something if they went extinct.
Which that notion alone is wrong because an ecological niche is not a role in the ecosystem something could fill. Because niches is a mix of specific environmental variables where the animal population can thrive and reproduce. Thus no niches are exactly the same.
Let's say if someday the aardvarks went extinct, does that mean striped hyenas will fill the niche of aardvarks and convergently evolve their traits? No, they have totally different ecology and there are so many termites and ants that competition is virtually non existent. While sure perhaps a population of striped hyenas may further specializes in termite and perhaps evolve stronger claws or long tongues, but that doesn't mean the end result have to be an Aardvark or pangolin or anteater 2.
This is one of the highest quality channels out there
Hello 👋
They kinda clickbait sometimes.
Now, I am imagining the world where the cephalapod-like civilization has been developed and they have to run and hide in fear from some sort of deadly seals! Just imagine how terrifying that would be as a nautiloid!
Sounds like a great episode for a science-fiction novel / graphic novel / tv series.
@@Drust0 No but humans used to ru nand hide in fear of the Subjects of Ymir when they were turned into Titans.
The evolution of the pinnipeds really sealed the nautiloids' fate.
Ha
pinnipeds as nautiloid predators... makes sense.
carnivorans (really all therapsids) seem predestined to very strong bites, which is useful in cracking shells.
And somehow same nautiluses managed to coesist with Jurassic pliosaurs which had similarly strong bites...
@@andreiryancaballero7422
well the neck theory doesnt really make sense either, but its pretty clear thats what happened.
i suppose the real answer is... suction? nautiloids didnt have to deal with any sort of super suction based hunter since the eugenodonts, so i suppose that couldve been how seals dominated.
but seals dont suck their prey
Asteroids, cataclysmic volcanoes, continents breaking apart
Nautiloids: sleep
Some funny sea dogs appear
Nautiloids: *danger*
Nautiloids: *Real sh*t*
I guess you could say that pinnepeds sealed the deal on nautiloid extinctions.
I'd love to see theories and/or a video on how our friend the coelacanth survived
Partially because they moved to the deep ocean, but why this worked, I don't know.
Early nautilus forms look like a squid with a wizard hat on.
I actually laughed out loud
Nautiloid: “I fear no mass extinction… but that *thing*
*one blubbery boi*
Nautiloid: “…it scares me.”
It's the same every time:
Starting an eons video, recognising the different hosts with the first spoken word long before seeing them on screen. Makes me smile every time. Interesting topics in well written and edited videos hosted by great science communicators. Triple Win! 🥳
Hey could you do a segment on parasitic barnacles? I find them incredibly fascinating.
As always, great content!
Yes. Billions of Blue Blistering Barnacles in Ten Thousand Thundering Typhoons
This video has made me very curious about the absence of pinnipeds in the Indo-pacific. Does anyone know why it is ?
It seems most pinnipeds need cold water (below 20°C) to thrive. They mostly live in arctic or moderate seas or along cold currents in warmer or even tropical regions. The Indo-Pacific is generally speaking too warm for them.
@@juliusnatrup5916 thanks!
@@juliusnatrup5916 maybe climate change will drive pinnipeds out, and nautoloids will take over again. I *welcome* our new/old overlords
@@juliusnatrup5916 Wasn’t there a species of seal that lived in the Caribbean?
My guess is the Saltwater Crocodile. They inhabit the exact same range as the nautilus.
I've always been fascinated by the Nautilus and it's longevity, I even bought a Nautilus Shell I found at a seaside curiosity store! To think how ancient the lineage is, they are truly living fossils!
And did you know the growth rings on their coiled shells are based on the fibonacci mathematical pattern?
@@ImperfectVoid8479 Nah it was washed up in the UK!
@@davidc5191 you have that a bit backward
Something still doesn't add up here. 1) Pinnipeds, with the exception of the now extinct Caribbean Monk Seal (their populations were never high historically iirc) have been notoriously absent from the oceans around Central America, to add to that the Puerto Rican Trench could have provided a refuge even if pinnipeds had been numerous there at some point in the last 30 million years. 2) There are plenty of fish species that have the ability to extract a mollusk from its shell. So it presumably can't just be that reason alone, if at all. 3) There are pelagic cephalopods (squids & argonauts) in open water, a place that a lot of pinnipeds rarely frequent due to lack of a place to rest & food is spread too thin (i.e. there are no pelagic pinnipeds to my knowledge). So if pinnipeds were the problem then nautiloids should have still persisted in the open ocean near the surface like argonauts. 4) I find it hard to believe that the ecological niche that pinnipeds now occupy was never filled in over the 470 million years prior that could have evolved such a detrimental strategy to the nautiloids.
go write a paper and take it up with them
@@a.w.1820he’s got better things to do like debate anime
I'm not sure if there are fishes that eat nautiluses on a regular basis. There are many fish groups (e.g. labrids) that are adapted to eat hard-shelled animals as mollluscans and crustaceans but they are bottom-feeders and I find unlikely that most of them can handle the nektonic nautiluses.
The guy makes some reasonable points with a clear intention to learn and debate, an all you guys come up with is some basic insults and the always useless "go do it yourself then lmao". Real funny that you respond to criticism in a science channel with blatant anti-intellectualism.
I'm no better either...
A couple others have pointed out that pinnipeds maintain some degree of manipulation ability with their forelimbs, which could allow them to more effectively immobilize nautiloids once they caught them, giving them an edge over other animals with a similar feeding style. I've got nothing for the questions relating to geographic extent though, something to dig into.
I guess you could say, for the nautiloids, the arrival of pinnipeds had all but SEALED their fate.
Boo-hiss!
I thought this was pretyy witty.
Aahhh, I see what you did there...😏
they’re not-a-loitering any longer
One of the best TH-cam channels.
For how predator-proof the nautiloids are, it's wild that a predator can eat them, let alone cute pinnipeds sucking them out of their shells!
Pinnipeds are METAL
I like that the conclusion of the video is, roughly, "Seals are the harbingers of chaos".
This is fascinating! The art is just fantastic as well! Thank you all for your work.
First surviving allmoste all mass extinctions and then being driven to extinction by a living sausage must be pretty depressing
I take it for what it is in terms of Eons finally talking about seals, although their evolution is mysterious. I'm hoping you'll talk about this for a long time. Also burning question in my mind: what made the indo-pacific region of the ocean inhabitable for the early seals? That is pretty interesting to know.
According to a bunch of the replies I've read, saltwater crocodiles and hot waters.
prolly the saltwatr crocs. Unlike orca and sharks, crocs can follow the seals to the land
Rip to the glorious Nautiloid Empire
Wow, this was really interesting. Like not only the teeth allowing seals to piece shells, but also their paws early pinnipeds had to hold onto and manipulate nautiloids in ways that early whales couldn't, given they arose from ungulates instead of carnivores
Thank you for sharing! BTW that doesn't count for deep sea specialists like the Allonautili which, for whatever reason, seem to be also restricted to the southern Pacific around New Guinea and the Solomon Islands.
I found the outro with reference to where the fossils came from citing the original native inhabitants to be fantastic. It's a small thing but I think it's great
Nautiloid: "I am a living tank, perfected by 500 million years of evolution and the survival of numerous global extinction events, nothing could possibly threaten me."
Pinnipeds: *børk*
Nautiloids: *AAG-*
Your recognition of discoveries made on Indigenous lands moved me and I applaud you for doing this!
Nothing but pandering
@@johnthumble5154 And how many other science channels do you see doing the same thing?
@@machfassett5749 anymore than 0 is too many.
@@johnthumble5154 There always has to be one troll, doesn't there? Congrats on winning today's first place ribbon in recognition of your trolling efforts and lack of respect to the original inhabitants of the Americas
@@morganbonczek6428 trolling implies I don't believe what I'm saying and only do it to get a rise.
You like many other leftards seem to struggle with basic definitions.
This episode has my seal of approval!
Ths thought of seals clearing giant bugs out of the ocean makes me smile.
Nautiloids we’re around for 500 million years. That’s a long run guys!
What happened to Konstantin’s studio? Also, this host has improved by 150% since she started. I was critical at first so I have to point out how much better their presentation is now!
Michelle is awesome! I love her expressions. It’s very effective in communicating the concepts.
Wonderful video, clear and concise with great art and presentation. 😁
So, they found their match in sea doggos.
loving this educational content from yall, stay learning
Great documentary as always!
It's really funny to think that these long lasting nautiloids were wiped out by a bunch of round chonky bois.
Can I point out an error on the maps? Pinnipeds are found in Lake Baikal!
Can we get an episode on how snd why there’s this one freshwater seal? It’d be pretty neat, I think
I prefer the idea that Nautilus' shell coiled to become a stability device
Nautiloids are my favorite sea creatures. They are just so bizarre and far from the natural line of evolution. Like a giant snail tried to eat a squid and instead it simply absorbed it and they became one. Or maybe an octopus was evolutionarily inspired by hermit crabs. 😂
I love the land disclaimer! I think it would be nice if there were also one at the beginning or if it were read aloud though
An interesting proposal, but it comes with a large contradictory question that hasn't been answered and was frankly ignored completely. If it really is true that pinnipeds, likely the phocids or true seals specifically since they is the better adapted family for shellfish foraging, were the determining factor in the decline of the remaining nautiloid groups after the K-PG extinction then why is the Indo-Pacific interchange region the final stronghold of their distribution? It's not enough to simply say that there are no pinnipeds there, as you also have to propose why pinnipeds never expanded their range there in the past and why they can't currently migrate there to finish them off. This hypothesis also doesn't explain why nautiloids were extripated in the Indian Ocean as well since pinnipeds never radiated there to prey on them either. Despite my criticisms though, I actually like this hypothesis a lot in some areas and would love to see it and it's contradictions researched further.
I feel like there's a few follow up papers to be found in those questions! :D
At first I was thinking maybe seals don't live in warm waters in general, but the video made it obvious that wasn't quite true. If water depth is also a factor though, might that be one of the differences for the Indian Ocean too? Maybe there were other critters out-competing the nautiloids there, in other ways than predation? Which would still leave pinnipeds as the "major" cause of the vanishing nautiloids. Or maybe there was a kind of one-two punch, already pressured by whatever other competition existed, when the pinnipeds moved in, the nautiloids just couldn't deal with BOTH sources of trouble at once?
"why they don't migrate to finish them off" seems like an odd question to me; the seals aren't seeking them out, they don't even know they exist, and probably have no interest in going to such warm waters without food resources being an issue, as most seals in that area are arctic acclimated species or at least descended from them
I can see pinnipeds as a posible treat to them. And that's on the huge numbers they congregate on. Imagine a huge colony of Arctocephalus pusillus. They fill kleen up a hole region of the ocean near one of their colonys. Not to mention that when they are not in colonys they scatered across the sea to find food. If there is an advantage or an easy pray to chach they would go after it.
Also. The colonys move across time so today they may be on the southern tip.of africa but if the clima changes or the sea corrents do they will move across the map and star another huge colony in anny oter suitable place. (And that must have hapened... we are talking of million of years).
Another factor in play is taste. Marine mamals will go far away or trough a lot of truble for a tastyer meal. Maybe nautiloids are to sea mamals like chocolate is to us.
Mmm... nauthuloids.
@@aff77141 true, but if there's a food source that an animal is uniquely qualified to exploit, typically over time that animal will be able to adapt to slightly warmer temperatures or slightly deeper depths to exploit it
Someone in another comment suggested that the saltwater crocodiles in the region were to blame
Cephalopods are divided into two living subclasses Nautilaceae (Nautili and Fossil Relatives) and Coleaceae (Squid, Cuttlefish, Octopi, and Vampire Squid).
Love your hair Michelle ❤
I probably first learned about the Nautilus decafes ago on something like a National Geographic Special on TV. Very STRANGE critters.
Now I'm wondering why there aren't seals in Indonesia
There are dolphins and whales.
Too warm.
@@bjorntheviking6039 Doubtful; remember Caribbean Monk Seal which lived in pretty warm waters.
i hypothesise that saltwater crocs could be to problematic for seals, if you look at the range of salties and the range of nautiluses you will see they are very similar
An excellent video, with a solid hypothesis…but I have one MAJOR problem with it…Plate Tectonics. The surface of the Earth has not always looked as it does today.
Never thought I would think of seals as the enemy. I know it is just nature.
Example of an introduced predator making a mess of life for a successful creature: in Antarctica, dogs were introduced, and they started preying upon penguins. Dogs have since been banned there, so they can no longer remain as the Tiger of the Antarctic.
Who tf even took dogs there
I suppose, after the extinction of Caribbean Monk Seal, Nautiloids could probably live in Caribbean sea.
We can't lose these guys!
really sealed the deal
Love what you’ve done with your hair!
I agree with another commenter on here that the pinnipeds ability to grab with their forelimbs definitely played a major part in their predation on nautiloids.
Not only do I love the content you offer but I also appreciate your diverse number of hosts. thanks PBS
500 million years of survival, and their reign is ended by the humble Sea-Puppy.
we swam out of the ocean and walked on land and we flew out of land to walk on the moon just amazing
What Baldur's Gate 3 has taught me is that nautiloids come from a different plane and you can duplicate coins using the red cloud scroll glitch.
9:00 Kinda confused what's stopping the Nautiloids from spreading to the middle of the south Pacific
Pinipeds are associated with coastal regions. Why would nautilids not persist in open ocean? Not enough food?
love the haircut, you look fabulous!
My sister will never understand why I love the nautiloids so much
It's always a plot twist when the thing causing mass extinction in the present isn't actually humans.
thank you so much this video was so insighful!
So you can say, that they sealed the deal for the nautilus?
That was awesome! I mean I hate huge extensions but I love using carnival good old fashion, detective techniques to solve million year old questions. Thank you.
So why aren't there pinnipeds in that region?
They tend to prefer colder waters, AFAIK. Perhaps the allure of new food sources isn't enough to get them into warmer waters.
This idea is skewed by the recent decline of monk seals due to human factors, which used to strive in tropical waters
i theorise that saltwater crocs could be to problematic for seals, if you look at the range of salties and the range of nautiluses you will see they are very similar
I love this so much. I learn sooo very much from this show, every single time!
Very cool that you made sure to publish acknowledgement of indigenous inhabitants I like that a lot.
Does anyone know when the fossil record stops producing fossils per se.
Imagine surviving five mass extinctions only to succumb to a animal that looks like a King Charles upset you gave it a bath.
How does shell thickness relate to depth?
The pressure of water is high, but so is the animals internal pressure. We can't go down there because our internal pressure is relative to ambient air pressure, like they can't come up here.
Maybe same reason to why shallow fish can’t go deep and deep fish can’t swim shallow. Their internal pressure also coincides with their place, and thick shells allow adaptability
The sturdier the shell, the more the animal can pressurise it to deal with changing pressures. Release pressure in the shallows, build it up in the depths.
If that's so, to allow them a greater difference internally:ambient depth pressure, then where are their eyes? Under the shell would make them pointless, but if not, they are exposed.
Besides, the pressure doesn't act only on the shell, it squishes every nook & cranny, top or bottom. So water would force its way into the shell, between the shell & flesh.
@@Iowa599 Well I'm sorry, that's literally just how it works. The thicker shells allow for lower depths, as it holds up to the pressure. The soft parts of the nautilus are able to resist the pressure with deformation, rather than the shell which if it was too weak would shatter. Now, Nautiloids can get something similar to the bends, if they fill their shell with water too rapidly, but for the most part they control how bouyant they are.
The shell behaves as a brittle ma- terial under stress: with increased pressure, deformation is gradual and linear up to the point of implosion.
The reason for the nautilus' greater depth tolerance, while retaining simple sutures, is simply that they have thicker shells than the ...
Yayyyy my joke got used :) I was pretty proud of that one.
Also the problem could be that there were just too many seals and too few predators keeping them in check. Might be a bit different today with us humans around, maybe the nautiloids will bounce back once we've dealt with the seals.
Shut up moron
Can I ask why you use the word "deal"?
I mean there were sharks around. They should have kept the seal population in check.
@@duelme1234 i think they're using it kind of sarcastically, since us humans are wiping out a lot of species.
@@duelme1234 because carnivoran mammals tend to behave as pests.
I just love your videos! Great Work!
I find it sad that ancients Nautiloids are on the decline.
Seals: unprecedented chaos
... Then Everything changed when the seal nation attacked! Only Aturia, master of all four elements, could stop them, but when the world needed them most, they vanished.
I was beyond shocked when i found out they were still around and not extinct after Minecraft came out with the ocean update
To think one of the cutest animals alive could be responsible for a near extinction of an animal.
Pennipeds really are the dogs and cats of the oceans.
You definitely got more productive.
That's great!❤
Very interesting. I never thought about nautiloids disappearing like that.
When will PBSeons collab with Paleo Analysis?
Out of all the animals that hunt cephalopoda sea mammals also seem to be the only ones that have some level of color vision. Makes one wonder at how much of this led to the mimicry found in cuttlefish and some other members of its family.
I always find it hard to believe that a predator in an open environment can drive a prey to extinction. Yes, a predator coming to a close ecosystem from a larger one, that's the island situation.
But here we're talking about oceans and seas that are all linked to each other. And we are also not just talking about Whales and Mosasaurs, but also all kinds of predators of various sizes, including the weird Triassic ones that were about the same size as a seal - not to mention sea crocodiles that very likely preyed on nautiloids as well, and various kinds of fishes.
It seems to me that pinnipeds alone were very likely not the only factor. What about climatic changes? More acidic seas? Competition with other organisms? The pinniped solutions seems too simple to be right. It might have caused directly some species to disappear, but not all nautiloids they encountered.
It could happen if the prey is a high value food (luxury item) but not a staple food.
@@johnbaker1256Sure, today? But what is the definition of high-value items and staple food before Humans even evolved?
Several times about baseball I’ve heard people say it could be called “adjustments” (adjust or die)
Do PBS hosts read TH-cam comments? If that's the case, Love you Michelle