IceMaverick colossus can get attacked by air. i would also love to see gardians and the reaver again + goons since they are just like stalkers without teleport, but they deal more damage to light units, since they dont have the bonus to against heavy units. and what about the scout and the mine bike from SC1 and the gloiath? they have the models in WoL and just dont add them..
GlenwingKyros Aye, but there's profound lore-ic implications for all of those units being removed, and it wouldn't make sense from a gameplay perspective to put any of them back in because nearly all of them have their roles fulfilled by another unit.
Excuse me? Nerf? How is the ability to pick up units with the warp prism from far away a nerf? Or how about that stupid stasis mechanic that might as well be an additional force-field?
CapJackson They nerfed the tempest and immortal. I like these changes because immortals and tempests really shut down strategies instead of allowing for micro. Now instead of being super powerful 1a counters, they are microable counters.
Yup. Most people won't have enough Oracles to make use of the new stasis mine; building oracles just for the mine seems ineffective. Shuttle micro is fairly tough to do for most people, and the range doesn't seem like it will make that much of a difference to all but the upper skill levels. The new unit looks like crap, but I would need to play with it to make a final statement. How the new carrier ability is going to work isn't clear, but without actually buffing their stats they won't see any play... just like now. Immortals just become harder to use, it seems. Seems like a nerf all around, especially when seen in comparison to what everyone else gets. I am rather disappointed.
CapJackson What about picking up siege tanks? Self repairing thors? Even faster banshees?! Teleporting bcs? And did you see the range of new terran units, even hardcounter against banes and immortals... That will make terran extremely op.
CapJackson I believe they nerfed them. Or at least, they got upgraded in a balanced way... Zergs on the other hand... boy those guys are absurdly op tight now.
1:45 "no immortals would have been lost" Yeah and for good reason, anyone who places tanks unguarded next to big open ramps deserves to lose them all, especially to immortals. Any realistic battle will have other units block and attacking the immortals and preventing them from getting to the Tanks, without the hardened shield passive, they will fall apart from tank fire before they get the chance to get within range. I can understand Terrans getting the new "Herc" and "cyclone" which both counter the Immortal, but removing hardened shields is a death blow to this unit.
Kinda sucks how the expansion pack is supposed to be revolved around the protoss but the other races get more units and buffs while the protoss units just gets nerfed
Look, as a Terran player, I should be happy that Immortals won't be able to treat Siege Tank rounds like raindrops anymore, but...I kind of liked that ability. The idea of a unit that has a cap to the amount of damage it can receive from a single attack was really cool. But changing it to an active like that? It just reminds me of how the bafflingly massive levels of micromanagement make 'professional' games of SC look absolutely joyless.
Well, this sucks... As a Protoss player, when I see what's coming for Zerg and Terran... let's say we are screwed (unless some grand masters who could micro the hell of the Warp Prism). And this was said to be the Protoss expansion -_-
Every single Protoss unit counters the Tank, it certainly feels like sometimes. Immortal was way too good vs them for no reason, and if you opted for mech, you could barely afford Ghosts.
Even in the demonstrations of the changes the protoss were only doing soso and/or suffering borderline unacceptable losses. Way to pump us up for the new protoss expansion.
Oh, I can't wait for this new expansion to come out. And yeah, like MrMason says, it may require micro for you to use the units (like most units), but it also takes micro for people to react to them. Bronze huh? What race are you?
Don't worry - they'll dumb down the "economy part" is something I heard IDK if the change is A - you actually started with 12 workers, or was it B - instead of 24, now bases require 12 workers on the minerals to operate Either of those two changes will "secure" a bit of "whew" factor for someone to focus on the actual battles in the game.. Which NO DOUBT will be A LOT more micro/intensive In other words - instead of doing changes to an old game - they're basically creating a complete new game which will revolve around tech choices and multitasking and micro as opposed to economy management
Actually these changes seems pretty good IF some numbers are right. For example, lets say the Inmortal's shield is about 500Hp or so, then it still retains its ability to properly counter those siege tanks. The Tempest's Desintegration seems OK depending on how long the cooldown is. The Oracle's "new ability", which the Arbiter had years ago, looks like it would be amazing during late game. HOWEVER, after seen the new updates for both Terran and Zerg, it seems Protoss will remain on the "weakest" race spot in their own game.
omieqqea High Templars are prolly the most OP Unit in Starcraft. In a full army composition,Vs.T if you didn't snipe HT you are dead. And after spent energy, HT becomes the Tank unit. I say good riddance to nerfing Immortals and Protoss.
***** ghost are way WAY more OP than high templar, they can attack on their own without an expensive upgrade, they can cloak, they can do serious AOE damage to a protoss army. Ghost is the reason protoss have no way of winning late game VS terran if economy is balanced, ask any pro
I'm a Protoss player but we had 3 new units in HotS while the other 2 races had only 2. Protoss got Oracle, Mothership Core and Tempest. Zerg got Vipers and Swarm Hosts. Terran got Hellbats and Widow Mines. So I guess it's only fair Protoss get 1 less than the other 2 races in this game.
Connor Miles True but it still doesn't deny the fact that the M'Ship Core is a new unit. Talking about units that are used in the meta and the units that aren't used in the meta is a different story. I agree with you though. I enjoyed Vortex as a ability for the Mothership and taking it out of the game (even though the Archon toilet is a bit imba) was a bit too much. They could've nerfed Vortex a bit more.
ChaosTemplar Besides, I'd be willing to bet that the Cylclone for Terran is going to be such a nightmare to balance that it will go the way of the Warhound. RIP in pepperonis Warhound, jack of all trades.
To sum up For Protoss : -Slow moving, expensive baneling as a new unit - Oracle now reveal cloaked unit - And Wrap Prism now can pick up units from a distance - DT-like trap that will prevent enemy units from attacking, or be attacked - Damage overtime Tempest Terran - New Mini Diamond back unit - it will move and shoot at the same time - Terran can now do Immoral drop with Siege Tank, but much better, faster, and more devastated - A Human version of Charge Zealot - Battlecruiser can now teleport to everywhere on the map -Thor self repair on battle - Banshee now can move faster than upgraded observer + overseer with a Fusion core upgrade. Zerg - 3 Siege tank- like units - Lurker + Ravager + Swarm Host now spawn flying Locust, 1 of which attack air - Zerg version of Void Ray - new Corrupter, but better, cheaper, and perhaps stronger . - Infestor now can give extra damage - Nydus cant be destroyed when it is being built Does this seem balance to anyone ? It is quite sad really, it is a Protoss expansion, but what protoss is getting the shittiest unit/ buff/ nerf
Audiomax Both Terran and Zerg are getting ridiculously good units, while Protoss is getting shitty unit. Like what the fuck, a run-and-gun version of a stalker, lurker, while all protoss get is a more expensive, less effective version of the baneling. Really ?
It was Bliz's strategy for multiplayer all along to mix up who got what units on the expansions. While I enjoyed HOTS and am a tried and true Zerg player I was annoyed that in the ZERG expansion they gave us no lurker except in single player and a couple of expensive and impractical late game units while it seemed the other two races got new and better toys. I can't really fault them though, it's shrewd marketing, with the fan base of SC divided among the three race enthusiasts and people who just generally like Starcraft mixing up what races got units across the three race specific installments was good business. Because really LOTV is the final piece that at last makes Starcraft 2 a complete game. Also that "slow moving baneling" isn't lost after going off, it flies, and has the potential to be the single greatest harass unit in the whole game. Imagine the freaking economic damage those things will wreak with worker line runs during mid to late game engagements that will require the players to micro more. All those new units Zerg and Terran get will be pretty damn irrelevant when they have no economy to produce them.
Am I the only one who thinks pretty much every Protoss player got a downgrade whereas the other two races got crazy upgrades? Ability to teleport a battlecruiser anywhere? Really?
Nobody gives a crap about some kid's feelings - and his retarded perspective of the game. These changes are the result of the cooperation of Blizzard and pro gamers, who have the best understanding of the game. Get over it or get lost.
To everyone upset about these changes, keep this in mind: These are all "plausible" changes on the board. If you look back to what was proposed to HOTs, look at all of the changes that were never realized: -Warhounds -1 single "Mega-Thor" -Shredder -Swarm Host DPS (was op for a while) -Ultralisk burrow charge -Oracle's entomb ability (and many other abilities that were tossed around) -Tempest role: Anti-muta splash dps unit -Banelings burrow-move Edit: -Replicators I'm sure I'm missing a few, but you get my point. Most of these new changes will not happen. Maybe half, even then some will still be altered.
This is how the developer meeting for LOTV went: Random Developer: "GUYS, I finally know how to make Protoss even shittier! Let's not actually make it appear shittier, instead, let's just make it so you have to become the true and the only chosen micro god in order to be maybe as good as you were before! And after we've done that, let's just buff the other two races infinitely with new units and more Protoss counters because you knowww, sillies, you can never have enough of those, HE HE!" And then the whole room stands up from their chairs, unzips their jackets, revealing their Terran logo T-shirts, and throws throw their hands in the air and collectively shouts "KA-BOOM, baby!"
I've always been a Protos player, and I'm pretty sure a lot of this will be changed but if this is how the expansion was to roll out, I'd switch to Zerg, without a doubt
Tychus: Let's see here. We have hellions splash, hellbats splash, tanks range OP splash, Thor anti-air OP splash, and that's not all, widow-mines aka terran's own baneling with reusable OP splash. What have you guys got? Kerrigan: Well, we are still stuck with A-Click Baneling into tank lines self explode splash. We do have burrow but we always get scanned though. How about you Zerratul? Zerratul: Well, we are doing slightly better. We still have laser splash from Colossus, and since LotV is supposed to be our game, Blizz decided to take pity on us and gave us the DISRUPTOR with splash but with less WM range and no burrow. Tychus: Wow, sweet! Looks like someone is finally catching up in technology! Zerratul: Errh,, holdon... ain't we suppose to be the tech-superior race? Tychus: GG
disrupter will be a unit either OP or underpowered, also they are not protossy (actually quite zergy), warpprism will be insanely abused again opponent will lack of AA, Also tempest change is really zergy, and I think the oracle's mine should be melee (when they detect unit they charge at it), and the carrier ... nothing the community asked for ...RIP carrier
What about something that creates a large, "kills everything around it" explosion is Zergy? That screams Terran. And actually most of the Carrier changes make the Carrier useful. Dropping the build time down to 90s and having Interceptors not instantly die when the Carrier itself dies solves the two biggest weaknesses of using Carriers: The long build time that makes any other unit more viable, and the potential for easy snipes, killing off hundreds of minerals worth of units in a moment.
Tauric94 But the Baneling doesn't do that. It creates a relatively small explosion that hurts or kills 1-3 units because it's explosive size isn't large or devastating unless in large numbers. Terran on the other hand have Siege Tanks and Widow Mines that create large AoE damage to lots of units. Hence, they have a big explosions that kill everything around them.
I think Warp Prism upgrade was really awesome. I mean, VS. Zerg, now you cant hold force field ramp and warp/harass the main base in early/mid game due to that new Zerg Unit. VS. Terran, They always have AA, well..relatively.
Disruptor: A good idea, but it may be too strong against workers in its current state, especially when static defense would not do a damn thing till after the explosion. Immortal Changes: A good change overall, seems to fixed to super hard counter problem yet still let immortal remain powerful. CD and duration is the key for balancing here though. Warp Prism Changes: Very strong in the hands of a good player in its current state. Oracle Changes: While Envision change makes perfect sense, but Stasis Ward have the potential to be too OP unless there is a catch. Tempest Change: If there is any one change that would need to be cut, it is this active ability. Protoss don't need anymore damage on a capital unit, what toss need are utility and options. Carrier Change: Seems fine due to the drawback described on the official site, it makes carriers more useful in low numbers.
***** Those buffs are the wrong way to go about it except for a few like Warp Prism is what I was saying. What Protoss have is essentially more damage, but nothing else really fundamentally changes the meta. Both Terran and Zerg's additions and buffs already shows that it will change the meta, but Protoss changes, just buffs and another splash.
So I watched the Terran changes, psyched about those, they look pretty awesome. The Zerg changes, slightly less awesome but still pretty great, especially bringing back the Lurker. But what the HELL!? This is Legacy of the Void, the PROTOSS expansion, why are the Protoss getting nerfed to hell? So pissed about this.
There are additional nerfs not stated in this video, one is the photon overcharge on nexus no longer hit air units. 2nd is units being warped in will take 2x more dmg while in warping motion.
The changes might not be so bad IF: 1. The disruptor had more health and greater AoE, and it could also affect air units. 2. They brought back the Dark Archon with all the same abilities, but Mind Control lasted 30 seconds. 3. They were talking about a Twilight Archon once, made from High and Dark Templar unions. 4. Bring the Corsair's and Disruption Web back, and give it to the Pheonix. And consider bringing the Scout back. 5. And bring back the Tempest's anti air gun, but lessen the fire power and range for it. The Terran's have super heavy ordinance for siege breakers. Try stopping 6 Yamato cannons followed closely by Hellbats, Thors, Marines, Marauders, Ravens, Tanks and Medivacs. Any sensible Terran player will have most those. The Swarm Host for Zerg, slightly nerfed but now balanced and perfect. With the Brood Lord and some backup in the form of roaches, mutalisks and hydralisks, infestors and banelings, they can squash base defenses. Protoss? In this state? Please. Anyone agree with my list?
IceMaverick goons are cool and they would deal more damage to light units, because they dont have the bonus to heavy units + they cant blink. so over all more stabel, but not as mobile.
1) So basically Tempests costing 300 mins 200 vesp would do 30 dps and without even splash damage. Now without anti-air the only reason to get it is "Disintegration", which works on shorter ranges makes it not so much worth of its investments. 2) Passive shields of immortals are gone; now they could be killed by tanks and tanks on the other hand could be transported by medivacs, which only means that immortals are going to get sniped from distance... Cool totally cool... 3) Revelation & Invision are combined => Detection abilities have not any duration... Em... Great? 4) Disruptor... no comments 5) Basically this is a teaser to see the reaction of the players in order to... what?
That's actually a very good change. Everyone has been complaining that the Immortal way, way overperformed vs even sizeable and well positioned Siege Tank lines. You could safely A-move into them and still win an engagement, which was rather ridiculous.
Protoss expansion: One new unit. Nerfs multiple protoss units. Zerg and Terran get multiple new units, and complete positive buffs and new abilities on key units that actually see play.
Just a question - have there been any changes to the Warp Gate? My problem with it is it reduces defender's advantage to zero, and it turned Protoss into a really gimmicky race way too reliant on various cheeses or all-ins. That doesn't benefit the game at all.
You can really see the "wider audience" strategy at work, especially with the immortal. Since a lot of what makes LotV units powerful depends on the player's micro skill, all of us in bronze-gold are going to suck more equally after legacy is released than before. Lower barrier to entry in the low leagues means lower stress means more players. Pretty cool.
EPIC PROTOSS NERF!!!! ¬¬, the inmortal now is jellyrtal... and where are the new protoss units? ._. i though this was the protoss exp.... but zergs are now even better....
Zerg - 2 New Units Terran - 2 New Units Protoss - 1 New Unit. In HotS we got 2 new units, but both air units. One of them we can only build 1. Lotv =NO new Gateway Units, NO Reavers. NO Dark Archons (Thats all we really wanted) We got: -An Exploding ball. -Dumbed down Immortals -Interceptors that live slightly longer. -Tempest that can no longer attack air -One new oracle ability - Slightly better Warp Prissms (Keep in mind the Siege Tanks drops now possible for Terrans) Zerg got: -Mutation for roach, designed to fight against Protoss casters like the sentry. -One of their best BW units making a return (Lurker) -Flying Locust -And much more. Terran got: -Flying siege tanks. -Mobile Cyclone that can lock on Air and attack ground while moving at stalker speed. - Brand new Melee unit that tears up units like Immortals -Thors that fix themselves. -Battlecruisers that can teleport wherever they want. Balanced? The answer is a firm and obvious absolutely not for Protoss. Just wanted to point that out first. I don't understand LotV Logic for the Protoss. Ive was playing SC when I was 9 years old and i've always been a toss player and never before have I been so scared for my race. The updates and additions for us look minimal. We see Blizzard trying to emphasize micro gameplay with this new expansion but the Disrupter alone is not the answer. When we look at the changes coming to the other races, the gameplay style Zerg and Terran players already have will be capitalized on and make their build stronger with them being able to utilize these new weapons. For example: Swarm Hosts will be able to deploy flying Locust in the late game, their roaches will be able to mutate now. The Zerg gets 2 new units. The Terrans also get two new units, a Melee Herc that is good against many heavy Protoss Units as well as the Cyclone that can counter our Stalkers and beloved Mothership Core. The Siege tanks can also be dropped at will now already in their siege mode, and us Protoss's only hard counter for them, The Immortals, have been dumbed down. Thors can also now self repair, Banshees get a speed boost, and worst of all an entire fleet of Battlecruisers can now jump across the map instantly. The other two races got 2 units that work really well with their builds and gameplay styles. The changes to the Protoss feel like we're going to have to learn who to play the race all over agin and change our gameplay in order to still get some wins. The expansion should do just that: It should expand on what is already in place meaning gameplay included and the fact of the matter is that these changes don't do that. The changes to the Zerg and Terran and absolutely brilliant, but even though this is the long awaited Protoss expansion all we get is a self destructing ball because Blizzard is hoping we'll micro it. I am a long time fan of the franchise and will continue to play in hopes that all this will get fix but the Protoss in LotV multiplayer is absolutely insane and poorly designed. What Protoss real needs is another Gateway unit, or at least our old Dark Archons//Reavers. I'm not alone as a Protoss player who was very much looking forward to this game but now I'm only excited about the single players aspect. I truly hope Blizzard does something about multiplayer Protoss before the release. This is the only time Blizzard has really truly let me down. In conclusion: Legacy of the Void is Broken for Protoss players. We should all be VERY worried.
Is the carrier change any good ? Is it longer range ? Only attacks the location you chose and ignores the enemies even when they are closer and attacking you ?
Please explain me more about Carries... now Carrier would launch Interceptors from the more ranged place and , they are life and atk even if carried dead? And after finishing/killed enemy unit interceptors back to carrier or stay on the place and fly on their own ?
Just give the protoss the arbiters from broodwar. Believe me, the entire game will change for them. Stasis field and permanent cloak from a unit that can be built in numbers. And you don't have to worry about adding a silly fairy death ball unit to the existing death ball basket protoss already have.
Starcraft has been around for 17 years and still is a legend. The reason is 1 word: BALANCE. All 3 races have always been balanced, simply there is no best race. But with this update it seems like protoss have been left behind! Now, there can be a discussion about if Zerg or Terran is the best, defs not Protoss!
If Blizzard is interested in making massive profit, they should not let Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void become too difficult to play. Casual gamers, which do not have well micro skills, are going to be the biggest group of money paying customers! When the game expansion requires too much skill, especially related to micro, then casual gamers will be scared away from buying the final version of Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void!
Valentin M. but i'm a bit disappointed, wing of liberty was about Raynor getting his love back. But heart of the swarm and Legacy of the void both go with blizzard's "there's a bigger evil and we all together have to fight him" bullshit :(
we'll all be playing the campain the first few hours, but sadly unlike warcraft 3 there isn't much custom campaigns (player made) after that so we have to get our fun out of multiplayer
Ick, then you might be pretty disappointed. I felt massively left down by Starcraft 2 after the borderline nihilism and pyrrhic victories of the original games. It's a passable story, of course. The generic power of friendship shtick the new games went with just doesn't feel organic to the first two at all.
+Constantine Jamon Unfortunately shield batteries give Protoss to much of an edge. They can to hit and run raids with Void Rays and in 30 seconds they all charged up and ready to go again. They can whittle all attacks and defenses with relative ease. But I see your point.
Okay Blizzard, seems like you fail to see what the problem with Protoss is: the deatball. I am a toss player and I see it. There is no alternative though and that's the problem. Zergs have a few viable mid- & late- game compositions: hydra-roach, muta-ling, ultra-ling, broodlords, infestors with anything. Terrans have the following viable compositions: mech, bio, air in TvT. Not much, to be honest, but it works, mostly thanks to drop potential. Now, Protoss have literally only one viable composition and it is the gateway-robo ball. Oracles, phoenixes, dts etc. are decent for harrassment, but late-game they're useless against the compositions of other races. The Protoss don't have a choice of composition and that is the problem. People keep asking about Reavers and Dark Archons or buffs on the Mothership or Carriers in order to have a 2nd viable composition. Back in Brood War we could go for: corsair-revaer, pure gateway with HTs, Carriers (yup, those were viable!), gateway-reaver, arbiter-anything with stasis and drop potential. So, can you - Blizzard - please stop forcing these gimmicky units down our throats and give us some serious protoss-ball alternatives like we had in BW?
please, I have a question Why are protoss zealots put into stasis cells? (reference in Legacy of the Void Cutscene at blizzcon and in heart of the swarm inside protoss ship mission)
The Carrier change is huge though. Carriers will be able to engage anti-air squadrons like Vikings without putting themselves at risk. That's immense. I've been hoping for that ability since SC 1 not to mention... what's the point of a carrying Interceptors if they can't really get far away from their mothership? I think the obvious Toss comp with the new changes is going to be big air. Stasis Ward also is potentially very powerful, as it can be used to cover Protoss retreat paths.
Disruptor + New Warp Prism = gg I have a feeling this is going to do terrible, terrible damage to mineral lines. Even with out the warp prism. Fast Distruptors + Zealot vs a fast expanding zerg would be just completely one sided. It doesn't say if the splash damage stacks. If it stacks and doesnt hit friendlies I can see it replacing the Sentry vs Zerg. Those new roaches make Sentry's much less effective now. Those nerfed Immortals, lol. That new defense seems like it would be more effective vs say marines.... But you would never use them versus those units as they're expensive and marines are not. It's a silly change that renders immortals kinda pointless now. If the stasis ward works vs Drone/SCVs/Probes it's going to be the first thing pulled from the list. Oracles had an ability similar to Stasis that stopped mineral lines in the HotS beta, I've forgot it's name though. I think this is going to be a disaster like the early HotS units. All they needed to do, since WoL, was add new units that fill the gaps in each arsenal.
New Protoss Unit As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit: It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed. The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade. The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit. The HERC ( Terran ) has been removed The Thor self-repair ability has been removed
CRAP NOOOO! This is a protoss expansion pack not a zerg one!! The protoss should have more new units and stuff upgraded but the only thing that blizzard got for the protoss is ONE new unit and now the inmortal is crap. I THINK I WONT EVEN BUY THIS EXPANSION!!!
The reason they only give the protoss one unit this expansion is because last expansion they gave the protoss three new units, so if they gave protoss two units this time, they would have more units than any other race.
I love the carrier change the most. Brilliant idea makes me wish it was executed sooner. Now carriers can act more like actual carriers and send out their ships without putting themselves in immediate danger. This adds a great deal of strategic depth. A possible idea though to balance them should this ability become too powerful is perhaps to add either a damage or survivability stat to the interceptors depending on how far away they are from the carriers. Perhaps this could be rationalized through the amount of shielding the interceptors get? Like the carriers can only provide X% shield efficiency at Y range.
Why give BattleCruisers teleport thingy where SC2 BETA Mothership has that same ability but later cut on cause of OP but YOU can BUILD ONLY ONE Mothership BUT YOU CAN BUILD AS MANY BattleCruisers AS YOU WANT with this Teleport ability its OP! NO Sense? Why cut it out on the Mothership where you can only build one but BC's is as many as you can and way cheaper and less time that is SO UNFAIR. Give back SC2 BETA Mothership!!! Wormhole Transit + Vortex + Time Warp OR Mass Recall so unfair Blizzard why no sense at all.
David Sanchez I still prefer a Mothership, I like that thing even others hate it just need a good player to use its potential bring back WoL Mothership I did play Hots at all cause of this nerf at Mothership.
1st they took away the vortex from the mother ship, and now THESE?!!! C'mon guys, you're killing the Toss's uniqueness!!! Very, very, VERY disappointed.
srsly guys its not fair protoss should have a new cool unit like other races like something better than the disruptor its a protoss expansion after all ... many toss players will be disappointed if these are totally the final changements
As a participant in the closed beta, Disruptors are OP only if like all other units for protoss if you can Micro and use hotkeys properly Stim pack marines can split if you are fairly good enough at that, but other than that They are pretty OP for lower level players.
The Immortal change caught me off guard at first,but it seems that its spell would be useful to some degree. The Disruptor also looks like it would be a very fun new toy to play with.
Never.. Tempest and Immortal mother ship core need Rollback. Legacy of the Void means Destruction of Protoss?. What is that? 1. The role of Tempest is bothering by long range. if Zerg vs Protoss,, Zerg use the Viper. and Protoss unit is dead. Tempest protect the Protoss unit. In this game, Viper vs Tempest, However if Tempest become like this video,Protoss is just was ruined. 2. Immotal has been have very proper balance. this unit shows strength for Ultrarisk, Thor and more. however, it is also displayed weekness for Zergling marine and so on. 3. Photonic Overcharge of mothership core is not strength. in later time. medicvac would become OP. And I think that why disrupter exist. just Disposable mine. nobody use this unit. what do i by using this unit? kill the worker? impossible. kill the unit? impossible. and....? when I use this unit? Actually, rather heart of swarm unit is better than Legacy. No change. No new unit is better.
Tempests needed a Change like SOOOO badly. They had such a specific role that it was either like "I have 5 Tempests, he has 20 Battlecruisers, I win" or it was like "If I kite those units for like an hour I will win the battle". I don't know about the Immortals, but we'll see how it turns out. And the Disrupter kinda feels like an interesting concept to me (you could kinda use them to win time and stuff like that).
i like the disrupter... but why doesnt it attack air? the terran mine does with no micro needed. it would be a great new way to prevent mutas and dropplay without needing a starport right away
As a self admitted mediocre player, all of these changes do nothing but turn me off. The game is becoming more and more micro intesive, and a single unit and mostly (apart from dat Oracle) downgrades to Protoss ... which i'm sure will make Plat players and games more happy and balanced, but the VAST majority of us are not at that level. All I can see this expansion doing is one AGAIN raising the barrier to entry, and turning more and more of us less skilled players away.
I feel exactly the same... not all of us are 16 and 300 APM... what about the old school gamers who are 30 + or mid 20, and can barely get 50 apm as it is? making it more micro intensive will make it unplayable for many.
I agree that the skill cap for sc2 is unusually high. I'm not playing it anymore myself, and I was never really good, but I still think that maybe it's better that way. When Blizzard starts thinking: less players, less viewers = less $$$, and then the game gets dumbed down like so many others, that would mean the death of this franchise.
You definitely have a point there. However Blizzard is aiming towards a more action packed game. If you like building up your macro, perhaps SCII may not be for you. There a plenty of other RTS games that have close to 0 micro management requirements, I'd guess. SCII is a game of macro and micro management.
You guys are confused. Against an opponent of equal skill it doesn't matter. The very thing that you're talking about is why these changes are made, to make it a level playing ground. Without micro way too many protoss units simply win, By making protoss units such as the immortal less A move friendly they are leveling the playing field with the other races.
Wait.........That's all? this is an Expansion for the protoss or the Terrans and Zerg's? ._. That race should be the most powerful and you people just give them LAME units and limit their power!......... it's like the developer doesn't test the Multi-player because if it was hard to play with the "protoss" it still is! and with a few improvements that are almost useless! .... also the race remains at a disadvantage compared to the others.....
Than what is the point of Immortals now. The whole point of Immortals is to take those siege tanks and powerful units, now it can't do its job probably. And get its ass kicked? So much of a protoss player I am. Time to go to Zerg.
Tempest redesigned to only attack ground units. But then it does attack the air units of the Zerg in the video. Or is that a spell of some sort and not the "regular" attack, so they don't mean this kind of attack is possible?
Here are the problems i have. You HAVE TO REDUCE THE MICRO to protoss. So a bio terran only has to press t and attack move while i as a protoss to defeat a MMM i have to have T3 Colossus witch i have ot move back so it wont get sniped, force field the enemy units, activate guardian shield, cast time warp with the mother-ship core, use storms... DO I REALLY HAVE TO GO ON? So t+a vs everything else. ALSO ANOTHER BIG PROBLEM: NERF THE MARINES!!!!!!! i mean seriously. Theya re the first unit in game and they can easily kill almost every t3 unit from protoss. HELL mass marines destroy mass carriers. A MARINE IS 50 MINERALS. a carrier is 350 with 250. and i have to have a lot of tech and time to get them. They can kill tempests, immortals. THEY ARE T1. why are the marines so op ? really marines? the first unit in game can kill almost everything. also with stim pack they move so fast is imposible for a protoss to chase them. And stalkers get humiliated by mass marines. AND also nerf the damn emp. 1 emp all my archons are useless. AND FINALLY GIVE US BACK THE VORTEX!!!!!!
most of the changes are nerfing the protoss !! and the terran and zerg changes are ridiculous BB protoss and also tempest cant attack air well done carrier has arrived . tempest was the only counter for carrier in pvp !
i have now watched every video and i have to say...we have come to the pro era! every new unit and every ability is all about micro...its going to be hard to learn but when you master it, it will be awesome!
if u ask me the protoss sucked this expansion and the mutherfucking reaver's are soo fucking OP and why did the other races het way more new stuff and protoss gets,very little this expansion is gonna ruin it for protoss players!
Please, REMOVE THE COLOSSUS. It's BORING. Has NO MICRO POTENTIAL. Creates DEATHBALLS. Give us the Reaver! Thank you for reducing Immortal's strength vs the Tank, however. It was borderline imblanced before.
***** Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Reaver could not be used in a giant blob and safely A-moved like the Colossus, have you ever played Brood War? It was perfect as a harassment unit or when used in small numbers in strategic places. You could not A-move them with the main army, they overkilled way too much. Plus, it was a wonderful unit when used with the Shuttle, rewarded a lot of micro.
Guys, they obviously have not mentioned the brand new stuff for protoss because it is too early, that being said, some of the stuff here is nurfed and what exactly did they change with the carrier?
The Reaver was literally the only thing we were asking for.
It's roll as a long-range anti-bio unit is fulfilled by the Colossus, so I'm not sure why'd you'd expect it to return.
IceMaverick colossus can get attacked by air. i would also love to see gardians and the reaver again + goons since they are just like stalkers without teleport, but they deal more damage to light units, since they dont have the bonus to against heavy units. and what about the scout and the mine bike from SC1 and the gloiath? they have the models in WoL and just dont add them..
DreaMeRHoLic Because this isn't Brood War.
IceMaverick But it is StarCraft
GlenwingKyros Aye, but there's profound lore-ic implications for all of those units being removed, and it wouldn't make sense from a gameplay perspective to put any of them back in because nearly all of them have their roles fulfilled by another unit.
Only one new unit for Protoss? That kinda sucks
Also the disruptor one spotted groups of marines. Those can wreck bio balls.
Bring back Arbiters and Reavers.
Kaiser StratosTygo
Colossus replaces Reaver
Mothership replaces Arbiter
this is still pretty early on
It's a ball, obviously blizzard made this as an inside joke to the DeathBall.
it seems like all they did was nerf the protoss
Excuse me? Nerf? How is the ability to pick up units with the warp prism from far away a nerf? Or how about that stupid stasis mechanic that might as well be an additional force-field?
CapJackson
They nerfed the tempest and immortal. I like these changes because immortals and tempests really shut down strategies instead of allowing for micro. Now instead of being super powerful 1a counters, they are microable counters.
Yup. Most people won't have enough Oracles to make use of the new stasis mine; building oracles just for the mine seems ineffective.
Shuttle micro is fairly tough to do for most people, and the range doesn't seem like it will make that much of a difference to all but the upper skill levels.
The new unit looks like crap, but I would need to play with it to make a final statement.
How the new carrier ability is going to work isn't clear, but without actually buffing their stats they won't see any play... just like now.
Immortals just become harder to use, it seems.
Seems like a nerf all around, especially when seen in comparison to what everyone else gets. I am rather disappointed.
CapJackson
What about picking up siege tanks? Self repairing thors? Even faster banshees?! Teleporting bcs? And did you see the range of new terran units, even hardcounter against banes and immortals... That will make terran extremely op.
CapJackson
I believe they nerfed them. Or at least, they got upgraded in a balanced way... Zergs on the other hand... boy those guys are absurdly op tight now.
1:45 "no immortals would have been lost"
Yeah and for good reason, anyone who places tanks unguarded next to big open ramps deserves to lose them all, especially to immortals.
Any realistic battle will have other units block and attacking the immortals and preventing them from getting to the Tanks, without the hardened shield passive, they will fall apart from tank fire before they get the chance to get within range. I can understand Terrans getting the new "Herc" and "cyclone" which both counter the Immortal, but removing hardened shields is a death blow to this unit.
Kinda sucks how the expansion pack is supposed to be revolved around the protoss but the other races get more units and buffs while the protoss units just gets nerfed
Your kiddo insights are not interesting.
Look, as a Terran player, I should be happy that Immortals won't be able to treat Siege Tank rounds like raindrops anymore, but...I kind of liked that ability. The idea of a unit that has a cap to the amount of damage it can receive from a single attack was really cool.
But changing it to an active like that? It just reminds me of how the bafflingly massive levels of micromanagement make 'professional' games of SC look absolutely joyless.
electricbayonet2 I agree Toss is so micro intensive already as it is...
Terran = Buffed to heaven
Zerg = Buffed to heaven
Protoss = Nerfed to hell
Why? Protoss Disruptors are broken.
Bring back original Dragoon unit in the name of Fenix!
Or give Stalkers the Dragoon skin achievement, you'll have to request it in the Blizzard forum. I may not do it.
I'm tottally agree with you Archie...
ADD TO DRAGOONS
Terran Expansion = Strongest Race
Zerg Expansion = massive buff
Protoss Expansion = massive nerf
Thanks Blizzard...
Well, this sucks... As a Protoss player, when I see what's coming for Zerg and Terran... let's say we are screwed (unless some grand masters who could micro the hell of the Warp Prism). And this was said to be the Protoss expansion -_-
wow, protoss players will have to learn to micro
There's rumoured to be another protoss unit coming though. And remember when they first showed HotS, it was very different to how it is now.
VideoFletcher - TH-cam Channel. this is the worst expansion yet hell Brood war is better than this
That's kind of fair. Terrans sucked in WoL, zerg are having hard days in HotS. Now it's your turn.
Andrew Kalinin
??? Terran kicked everyone's asses with bio in WoL, what are you talking about?
Or you know... you could have EMPed those immortals and dealt with them that way. But let's cater to the terran tears.
Every single Protoss unit counters the Tank, it certainly feels like sometimes. Immortal was way too good vs them for no reason, and if you opted for mech, you could barely afford Ghosts.
F10F11hm stalker counters tanks Kappa
Zerg gud Unit Blink stalkers kind of do
footckeyball if u have +3 tanks with support acutally not
Zerg gud Unit They are definitely not hard counters, but they are not bad.
Even in the demonstrations of the changes the protoss were only doing soso and/or suffering borderline unacceptable losses. Way to pump us up for the new protoss expansion.
For what i see mid player is dead, all new units and changes put so much micro potential... guess ill be bronze for a year lol
but dont forget that everyone needs more micro. so, other people will struggle just as much, and you can win because of that :D
MrMarson123456 true, well see, i just want to see the caos of beta xD with all kinds of units rush ^^
Oh, I can't wait for this new expansion to come out. And yeah, like MrMason says, it may require micro for you to use the units (like most units), but it also takes micro for people to react to them. Bronze huh? What race are you?
Ah, so you mean with all the extra complicated-ness you'll go back to bronze.
Don't worry - they'll dumb down the "economy part" is something I heard
IDK if the change is
A - you actually started with 12 workers, or was it
B - instead of 24, now bases require 12 workers on the minerals to operate
Either of those two changes will "secure" a bit of "whew" factor for someone to focus on the actual battles in the game.. Which NO DOUBT will be A LOT more micro/intensive
In other words - instead of doing changes to an old game - they're basically creating a complete new game which will revolve around tech choices and multitasking and micro as opposed to economy management
2:52 this that hydralisk pretend he got hitted by the trap
Actually these changes seems pretty good IF some numbers are right. For example, lets say the Inmortal's shield is about 500Hp or so, then it still retains its ability to properly counter those siege tanks. The Tempest's Desintegration seems OK depending on how long the cooldown is. The Oracle's "new ability", which the Arbiter had years ago, looks like it would be amazing during late game. HOWEVER, after seen the new updates for both Terran and Zerg, it seems Protoss will remain on the "weakest" race spot in their own game.
The oracle stun could kinda be used the same way as mothership vortex: getting your army ready to counter as well as taking out some units at a time.
Thats how Blizzard rolls...nerfed the Zerg in the HotS, nerfed the Protoss in the LotV.
I am not complaining, Protoss needed to be brought down.
Because Protoss got already MASS AOE ''Without friendly fire (except Strom on Thier Zealot)''
omieqqea High Templars are prolly the most OP Unit in Starcraft. In a full army composition,Vs.T if you didn't snipe HT you are dead. And after spent energy, HT becomes the Tank unit. I say good riddance to nerfing Immortals and Protoss.
***** ghost are way WAY more OP than high templar, they can attack on their own without an expensive upgrade, they can cloak, they can do serious AOE damage to a protoss army. Ghost is the reason protoss have no way of winning late game VS terran if economy is balanced, ask any pro
as much as I hate protoss, they didnt get many new units did they?
The game doesn't really need more units.
I'm a Protoss player but we had 3 new units in HotS while the other 2 races had only 2. Protoss got Oracle, Mothership Core and Tempest. Zerg got Vipers and Swarm Hosts. Terran got Hellbats and Widow Mines. So I guess it's only fair Protoss get 1 less than the other 2 races in this game.
ChaosTemplar To be fair though the Mothership Core really just replaced the Mothership that Blizzard nerfed into uselessness.
Connor Miles True but it still doesn't deny the fact that the M'Ship Core is a new unit. Talking about units that are used in the meta and the units that aren't used in the meta is a different story. I agree with you though. I enjoyed Vortex as a ability for the Mothership and taking it out of the game (even though the Archon toilet is a bit imba) was a bit too much. They could've nerfed Vortex a bit more.
ChaosTemplar Besides, I'd be willing to bet that the Cylclone for Terran is going to be such a nightmare to balance that it will go the way of the Warhound. RIP in pepperonis Warhound, jack of all trades.
To sum up
For Protoss :
-Slow moving, expensive baneling as a new unit
- Oracle now reveal cloaked unit
- And Wrap Prism now can pick up units from a distance
- DT-like trap that will prevent enemy units from attacking, or be attacked
- Damage overtime Tempest
Terran
- New Mini Diamond back unit - it will move and shoot at the same time
- Terran can now do Immoral drop with Siege Tank, but much better, faster, and more devastated
- A Human version of Charge Zealot
- Battlecruiser can now teleport to everywhere on the map
-Thor self repair on battle
- Banshee now can move faster than upgraded observer + overseer with a Fusion core upgrade.
Zerg
- 3 Siege tank- like units - Lurker + Ravager + Swarm Host now spawn flying Locust, 1 of which attack air
- Zerg version of Void Ray - new Corrupter, but better, cheaper, and perhaps stronger .
- Infestor now can give extra damage
- Nydus cant be destroyed when it is being built
Does this seem balance to anyone ? It is quite sad really, it is a Protoss expansion, but what protoss is getting the shittiest unit/ buff/ nerf
In WoL Zerg was OP in HotS Protoss was clearly Op and now its Terran Turn.
Audiomax Both Terran and Zerg are getting ridiculously good units, while Protoss is getting shitty unit. Like what the fuck, a run-and-gun version of a stalker, lurker, while all protoss get is a more expensive, less effective version of the baneling. Really ?
"Slow moving, expensive baneling"
Except it's also reusable and invulnerable while charging.
bpansky it is but its still slow BUT i think it will make a good combo with sentries.
It was Bliz's strategy for multiplayer all along to mix up who got what units on the expansions. While I enjoyed HOTS and am a tried and true Zerg player I was annoyed that in the ZERG expansion they gave us no lurker except in single player and a couple of expensive and impractical late game units while it seemed the other two races got new and better toys. I can't really fault them though, it's shrewd marketing, with the fan base of SC divided among the three race enthusiasts and people who just generally like Starcraft mixing up what races got units across the three race specific installments was good business. Because really LOTV is the final piece that at last makes Starcraft 2 a complete game. Also that "slow moving baneling" isn't lost after going off, it flies, and has the potential to be the single greatest harass unit in the whole game. Imagine the freaking economic damage those things will wreak with worker line runs during mid to late game engagements that will require the players to micro more. All those new units Zerg and Terran get will be pretty damn irrelevant when they have no economy to produce them.
Am I the only one who thinks pretty much every Protoss player got a downgrade whereas the other two races got crazy upgrades? Ability to teleport a battlecruiser anywhere? Really?
Nobody gives a crap about some kid's feelings - and his retarded perspective of the game. These changes are the result of the cooperation of Blizzard and pro gamers, who have the best understanding of the game. Get over it or get lost.
Heey. Didn't think I'd say this but we have something in common - I know right? :)
Showing hatred for homosexuality is a thang of mine too ;)
They are still working on units for Protoss
Lookin at updates:
Terran - god mode. Zerg - awesomeness. Protoss - ... wait ... what!!??
To everyone upset about these changes, keep this in mind:
These are all "plausible" changes on the board. If you look back to what was proposed to HOTs, look at all of the changes that were never realized:
-Warhounds
-1 single "Mega-Thor"
-Shredder
-Swarm Host DPS (was op for a while)
-Ultralisk burrow charge
-Oracle's entomb ability (and many other abilities that were tossed around)
-Tempest role: Anti-muta splash dps unit
-Banelings burrow-move
Edit:
-Replicators
I'm sure I'm missing a few, but you get my point. Most of these new changes will not happen. Maybe half, even then some will still be altered.
7 years later. You're spot on. It's a completely different game.
This is how the developer meeting for LOTV went:
Random Developer: "GUYS, I finally know how to make Protoss even shittier! Let's not actually make it appear shittier, instead, let's just make it so you have to become the true and the only chosen micro god in order to be maybe as good as you were before! And after we've done that, let's just buff the other two races infinitely with new units and more Protoss counters because you knowww, sillies, you can never have enough of those, HE HE!" And then the whole room stands up from their chairs, unzips their jackets, revealing their Terran logo T-shirts, and throws throw their hands in the air and collectively shouts "KA-BOOM, baby!"
I've always been a Protos player, and I'm pretty sure a lot of this will be changed but if this is how the expansion was to roll out, I'd switch to Zerg, without a doubt
I was hoping for something like a Reaver or a Dragoon...
*****
that can also blink
merscmersc That melts to everything before they even get touched.
Tychus: Let's see here. We have hellions splash, hellbats splash, tanks range OP splash, Thor anti-air OP splash, and that's not all, widow-mines aka terran's own baneling with reusable OP splash. What have you guys got?
Kerrigan: Well, we are still stuck with A-Click Baneling into tank lines self explode splash. We do have burrow but we always get scanned though. How about you Zerratul?
Zerratul: Well, we are doing slightly better. We still have laser splash from Colossus, and since LotV is supposed to be our game, Blizz decided to take pity on us and gave us the DISRUPTOR with splash but with less WM range and no burrow.
Tychus: Wow, sweet! Looks like someone is finally catching up in technology!
Zerratul: Errh,, holdon... ain't we suppose to be the tech-superior race?
Tychus: GG
disrupter will be a unit either OP or underpowered, also they are not protossy (actually quite zergy), warpprism will be insanely abused again opponent will lack of AA, Also tempest change is really zergy, and I think the oracle's mine should be melee (when they detect unit they charge at it), and the carrier ... nothing the community asked for ...RIP carrier
What about something that creates a large, "kills everything around it" explosion is Zergy? That screams Terran. And actually most of the Carrier changes make the Carrier useful. Dropping the build time down to 90s and having Interceptors not instantly die when the Carrier itself dies solves the two biggest weaknesses of using Carriers: The long build time that makes any other unit more viable, and the potential for easy snipes, killing off hundreds of minerals worth of units in a moment.
IceMaverick
cough cough.. baneling cough
Tauric94 But the Baneling doesn't do that. It creates a relatively small explosion that hurts or kills 1-3 units because it's explosive size isn't large or devastating unless in large numbers. Terran on the other hand have Siege Tanks and Widow Mines that create large AoE damage to lots of units. Hence, they have a big explosions that kill everything around them.
wtf? It's a good buff for carrier with this range and maybe it will actually be used now.
I think Warp Prism upgrade was really awesome. I mean,
VS. Zerg, now you cant hold force field ramp and warp/harass the main base in early/mid game due to that new Zerg Unit.
VS. Terran, They always have AA, well..relatively.
Disruptor: A good idea, but it may be too strong against workers in its current state, especially when static defense would not do a damn thing till after the explosion.
Immortal Changes: A good change overall, seems to fixed to super hard counter problem yet still let immortal remain powerful. CD and duration is the key for balancing here though.
Warp Prism Changes: Very strong in the hands of a good player in its current state.
Oracle Changes: While Envision change makes perfect sense, but Stasis Ward have the potential to be too OP unless there is a catch.
Tempest Change: If there is any one change that would need to be cut, it is this active ability. Protoss don't need anymore damage on a capital unit, what toss need are utility and options.
Carrier Change: Seems fine due to the drawback described on the official site, it makes carriers more useful in low numbers.
***** Those buffs are the wrong way to go about it except for a few like Warp Prism is what I was saying. What Protoss have is essentially more damage, but nothing else really fundamentally changes the meta.
Both Terran and Zerg's additions and buffs already shows that it will change the meta, but Protoss changes, just buffs and another splash.
So I watched the Terran changes, psyched about those, they look pretty awesome. The Zerg changes, slightly less awesome but still pretty great, especially bringing back the Lurker. But what the HELL!? This is Legacy of the Void, the PROTOSS expansion, why are the Protoss getting nerfed to hell? So pissed about this.
There are additional nerfs not stated in this video, one is the photon overcharge on nexus no longer hit air units. 2nd is units being warped in will take 2x more dmg while in warping motion.
The changes might not be so bad IF:
1. The disruptor had more health and greater AoE, and it could also affect air units.
2. They brought back the Dark Archon with all the same abilities, but Mind Control lasted 30 seconds.
3. They were talking about a Twilight Archon once, made from High and Dark Templar unions.
4. Bring the Corsair's and Disruption Web back, and give it to the Pheonix. And consider bringing the Scout back.
5. And bring back the Tempest's anti air gun, but lessen the fire power and range for it.
The Terran's have super heavy ordinance for siege breakers. Try stopping 6 Yamato cannons followed closely by Hellbats, Thors, Marines, Marauders, Ravens, Tanks and Medivacs. Any sensible Terran player will have most those. The Swarm Host for Zerg, slightly nerfed but now balanced and perfect. With the Brood Lord and some backup in the form of roaches, mutalisks and hydralisks, infestors and banelings, they can squash base defenses. Protoss? In this state? Please.
Anyone agree with my list?
Dear Blizzard,
Please add dragoons!
Sincerely,
Every Starcraft player.
Why? Their role is entirely fulfilled as a gateway armored unit by the Stalker.
IceMaverick goons are cool and they would deal more damage to light units, because they dont have the bonus to heavy units + they cant blink. so over all more stabel, but not as mobile.
>Sincerely,
Every Starcraft player.
>Every Starcraft player.
>Every
>Implying.
Please don't talk for everyone.
Dragoons = slow attacking stalkers w/terrible pathing
1) So basically Tempests costing 300 mins 200 vesp would do 30 dps and without even splash damage.
Now without anti-air the only reason to get it is "Disintegration", which works on shorter ranges makes it not so much worth of its investments.
2) Passive shields of immortals are gone; now they could be killed by tanks and tanks on the other hand could be transported by medivacs, which only means that immortals are going to get sniped from distance... Cool totally cool...
3) Revelation & Invision are combined => Detection abilities have not any duration... Em... Great?
4) Disruptor... no comments
5) Basically this is a teaser to see the reaction of the players in order to... what?
1:44 - This is entirely due to aviLo's constant complaining hahaha
"PROTOSS IS WAY 2 STR0NG, GAISE. TERRAN MECH IS NO GUUD"
That's actually a very good change. Everyone has been complaining that the Immortal way, way overperformed vs even sizeable and well positioned Siege Tank lines. You could safely A-move into them and still win an engagement, which was rather ridiculous.
AVILO SAVIN E-SPORTS Kappa
but hey its avilo...he ll complain about something else.^^
ADD TO DRAGOONS
I will miss the hardened shield.
Protoss expansion:
One new unit.
Nerfs multiple protoss units.
Zerg and Terran get multiple new units, and complete positive buffs and new abilities on key units that actually see play.
I like how Protoss was the only race nerfed.
Oh, is that so?
Green Blaze Immortals.
Just a question - have there been any changes to the Warp Gate? My problem with it is it reduces defender's advantage to zero, and it turned Protoss into a really gimmicky race way too reliant on various cheeses or all-ins. That doesn't benefit the game at all.
So protoss get a baneling?
i don't get the carrier change. Couldn't you always focus target in sc2?
Nerf to Protoss in the Protoss Expansion...why...? D:
You can really see the "wider audience" strategy at work, especially with the immortal. Since a lot of what makes LotV units powerful depends on the player's micro skill, all of us in bronze-gold are going to suck more equally after legacy is released than before. Lower barrier to entry in the low leagues means lower stress means more players. Pretty cool.
EPIC PROTOSS NERF!!!! ¬¬, the inmortal now is jellyrtal... and where are the new protoss units? ._. i though this was the protoss exp.... but zergs are now even better....
Yup
5 years later tons of patches and this comment is still true.
Tempest now only attack ground...? Why? In their own expansion?! WHY?? ;(
MY HYPE FOR AIUR
Zerg - 2 New Units
Terran - 2 New Units
Protoss - 1 New Unit.
In HotS we got 2 new units, but both air units. One of them we can only build 1.
Lotv =NO new Gateway Units, NO Reavers. NO Dark Archons (Thats all we really wanted)
We got:
-An Exploding ball.
-Dumbed down Immortals
-Interceptors that live slightly longer.
-Tempest that can no longer attack air
-One new oracle ability
- Slightly better Warp Prissms (Keep in mind the Siege Tanks drops now possible for Terrans)
Zerg got:
-Mutation for roach, designed to fight against Protoss casters like the sentry.
-One of their best BW units making a return (Lurker)
-Flying Locust
-And much more.
Terran got:
-Flying siege tanks.
-Mobile Cyclone that can lock on Air and attack ground while moving at stalker speed.
- Brand new Melee unit that tears up units like Immortals
-Thors that fix themselves.
-Battlecruisers that can teleport wherever they want.
Balanced? The answer is a firm and obvious absolutely not for Protoss.
Just wanted to point that out first.
I don't understand LotV Logic for the Protoss. Ive was playing SC when I was 9 years old and i've always been a toss player and never before have I been so scared for my race. The updates and additions for us look minimal. We see Blizzard trying to emphasize micro gameplay with this new expansion but the Disrupter alone is not the answer. When we look at the changes coming to the other races, the gameplay style Zerg and Terran players already have will be capitalized on and make their build stronger with them being able to utilize these new weapons. For example: Swarm Hosts will be able to deploy flying Locust in the late game, their roaches will be able to mutate now. The Zerg gets 2 new units. The Terrans also get two new units, a Melee Herc that is good against many heavy Protoss Units as well as the Cyclone that can counter our Stalkers and beloved Mothership Core. The Siege tanks can also be dropped at will now already in their siege mode, and us Protoss's only hard counter for them, The Immortals, have been dumbed down. Thors can also now self repair, Banshees get a speed boost, and worst of all an entire fleet of Battlecruisers can now jump across the map instantly. The other two races got 2 units that work really well with their builds and gameplay styles. The changes to the Protoss feel like we're going to have to learn who to play the race all over agin and change our gameplay in order to still get some wins. The expansion should do just that: It should expand on what is already in place meaning gameplay included and the fact of the matter is that these changes don't do that. The changes to the Zerg and Terran and absolutely brilliant, but even though this is the long awaited Protoss expansion all we get is a self destructing ball because Blizzard is hoping we'll micro it. I am a long time fan of the franchise and will continue to play in hopes that all this will get fix but the Protoss in LotV multiplayer is absolutely insane and poorly designed. What Protoss real needs is another Gateway unit, or at least our old Dark Archons//Reavers. I'm not alone as a Protoss player who was very much looking forward to this game but now I'm only excited about the single players aspect. I truly hope Blizzard does something about multiplayer Protoss before the release. This is the only time Blizzard has really truly let me down.
In conclusion: Legacy of the Void is Broken for Protoss players. We should all be VERY worried.
zerg - big big buff
Terran - big buff
protos - nerf
Is the carrier change any good ? Is it longer range ? Only attacks the location you chose and ignores the enemies even when they are closer and attacking you ?
"...And this is how we're gonna kill protoss"
Please explain me more about Carries... now Carrier would launch Interceptors from the more ranged place and , they are life and atk even if carried dead? And after finishing/killed enemy unit interceptors back to carrier or stay on the place and fly on their own ?
Just give the protoss the arbiters from broodwar. Believe me, the entire game will change for them. Stasis field and permanent cloak from a unit that can be built in numbers. And you don't have to worry about adding a silly fairy death ball unit to the existing death ball basket protoss already have.
Starcraft has been around for 17 years and still is a legend. The reason is 1 word: BALANCE.
All 3 races have always been balanced, simply there is no best race. But with this update it seems like protoss have been left behind!
Now, there can be a discussion about if Zerg or Terran is the best, defs not Protoss!
If Blizzard is interested in making massive profit, they should not let Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void become too difficult to play.
Casual gamers, which do not have well micro skills, are going to be the biggest group of money paying customers!
When the game expansion requires too much skill, especially related to micro, then casual gamers will be scared away from buying the final version of Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void!
I'm excited for all the changes coming soon. And not just for one singular race, I mean all of them
Am i the only one who plays starcraft 2 for singleplayer and the story?
soonn all toss player will do the same
Valentin M. but i'm a bit disappointed, wing of liberty was about Raynor getting his love back. But heart of the swarm and Legacy of the void both go with blizzard's "there's a bigger evil and we all together have to fight him" bullshit :(
we'll all be playing the campain the first few hours, but sadly unlike warcraft 3 there isn't much custom campaigns (player made) after that so we have to get our fun out of multiplayer
Ick, then you might be pretty disappointed.
I felt massively left down by Starcraft 2 after the borderline nihilism and pyrrhic victories of the original games.
It's a passable story, of course. The generic power of friendship shtick the new games went with just doesn't feel organic to the first two at all.
Yes
Fucking casual
what about the Dark Archon, Defiler and the Shield Battery?!
+Constantine Jamon
Unfortunately shield batteries give Protoss to much of an edge. They can to hit and run raids with Void Rays and in 30 seconds they all charged up and ready to go again. They can whittle all attacks and defenses with relative ease. But I see your point.
True, but the Dark Archon tho. all that power
All they ever do is nerf Protoss or make them more difficult to play. And still no Dark Archons!? Come on!
That immortal nerf is going to be painful especially considering how short the active buff seems to be and how long the regen on it is.
Okay Blizzard, seems like you fail to see what the problem with Protoss is: the deatball. I am a toss player and I see it. There is no alternative though and that's the problem.
Zergs have a few viable mid- & late- game compositions: hydra-roach, muta-ling, ultra-ling, broodlords, infestors with anything.
Terrans have the following viable compositions: mech, bio, air in TvT. Not much, to be honest, but it works, mostly thanks to drop potential.
Now, Protoss have literally only one viable composition and it is the gateway-robo ball. Oracles, phoenixes, dts etc. are decent for harrassment, but late-game they're useless against the compositions of other races. The Protoss don't have a choice of composition and that is the problem.
People keep asking about Reavers and Dark Archons or buffs on the Mothership or Carriers in order to have a 2nd viable composition. Back in Brood War we could go for: corsair-revaer, pure gateway with HTs, Carriers (yup, those were viable!), gateway-reaver, arbiter-anything with stasis and drop potential.
So, can you - Blizzard - please stop forcing these gimmicky units down our throats and give us some serious protoss-ball alternatives like we had in BW?
please, I have a question
Why are protoss zealots put into stasis cells?
(reference in Legacy of the Void Cutscene at blizzcon and in heart of the swarm inside protoss ship mission)
Legacy of the Void brings the least changes to Protoss.
The Carrier change is huge though. Carriers will be able to engage anti-air squadrons like Vikings without putting themselves at risk. That's immense. I've been hoping for that ability since SC 1 not to mention... what's the point of a carrying Interceptors if they can't really get far away from their mothership? I think the obvious Toss comp with the new changes is going to be big air. Stasis Ward also is potentially very powerful, as it can be used to cover Protoss retreat paths.
Disruptor + New Warp Prism = gg
I have a feeling this is going to do terrible, terrible damage to mineral lines. Even with out the warp prism. Fast Distruptors + Zealot vs a fast expanding zerg would be just completely one sided.
It doesn't say if the splash damage stacks. If it stacks and doesnt hit friendlies I can see it replacing the Sentry vs Zerg. Those new roaches make Sentry's much less effective now.
Those nerfed Immortals, lol. That new defense seems like it would be more effective vs say marines.... But you would never use them versus those units as they're expensive and marines are not. It's a silly change that renders immortals kinda pointless now.
If the stasis ward works vs Drone/SCVs/Probes it's going to be the first thing pulled from the list. Oracles had an ability similar to Stasis that stopped mineral lines in the HotS beta, I've forgot it's name though.
I think this is going to be a disaster like the early HotS units. All they needed to do, since WoL, was add new units that fill the gaps in each arsenal.
New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
The HERC ( Terran ) has been removed
The Thor self-repair ability has been removed
Protoss got seriously shafted.
A ridiculous mine, and NerfingTime! Thank you guys for this Legacy of the Void! It will be so funny to play Toss now
CRAP NOOOO! This is a protoss expansion pack not a zerg one!! The protoss should have more new units and stuff upgraded but the only thing that blizzard got for the protoss is ONE new unit and now the inmortal is crap. I THINK I WONT EVEN BUY THIS EXPANSION!!!
Then don't, anime loser.
The reason they only give the protoss one unit this expansion is because last expansion they gave the protoss three new units, so if they gave protoss two units this time, they would have more units than any other race.
bye bro
I love the carrier change the most. Brilliant idea makes me wish it was executed sooner. Now carriers can act more like actual carriers and send out their ships without putting themselves in immediate danger. This adds a great deal of strategic depth.
A possible idea though to balance them should this ability become too powerful is perhaps to add either a damage or survivability stat to the interceptors depending on how far away they are from the carriers. Perhaps this could be rationalized through the amount of shielding the interceptors get? Like the carriers can only provide X% shield efficiency at Y range.
Why give BattleCruisers teleport thingy where SC2 BETA Mothership has that same ability but later cut on cause of OP but YOU can BUILD ONLY ONE Mothership BUT YOU CAN BUILD AS MANY BattleCruisers AS YOU WANT with this Teleport ability its OP! NO Sense? Why cut it out on the Mothership where you can only build one but BC's is as many as you can and way cheaper and less time that is SO UNFAIR. Give back SC2 BETA Mothership!!! Wormhole Transit + Vortex + Time Warp OR Mass Recall so unfair Blizzard why no sense at all.
Word, but hey look at the bright side we get BALLZ as a new unit, we litterally got ballz
David Sanchez I still prefer a Mothership, I like that thing even others hate it just need a good player to use its potential bring back WoL Mothership I did play Hots at all cause of this nerf at Mothership.
Mship Protoss I agree with everything you said, mothership should be the ultimate starcraft 2 unit, but, hey NOPE is usuless :/ shame on you blizzard.
Protoss imba agian
ADD TO DRAGOONS
What about the mothership and the mothership core? OnlyI think that that seems a bit forgotten since HoTS?
1st they took away the vortex from the mother ship, and now THESE?!!! C'mon guys, you're killing the Toss's uniqueness!!!
Very, very, VERY disappointed.
The Protoss are looking tough as usual. I'm going to check out the other two.
srsly guys its not fair protoss should have a new cool unit like other races like something better than the disruptor its a protoss expansion after all ... many toss players will be disappointed if these are totally the final changements
As a participant in the closed beta, Disruptors are OP only if like all other units for protoss if you can Micro and use hotkeys properly Stim pack marines can split if you are fairly good enough at that, but other than that They are pretty OP for lower level players.
Void of the legacy...
The Immortal change caught me off guard at first,but it seems that its spell would be useful to some degree.
The Disruptor also looks like it would be a very fun new toy to play with.
Never.. Tempest and Immortal mother ship core need Rollback.
Legacy of the Void means Destruction of Protoss?. What is that?
1. The role of Tempest is bothering by long range. if Zerg vs Protoss,, Zerg use the Viper. and Protoss unit is dead.
Tempest protect the Protoss unit. In this game, Viper vs Tempest, However if Tempest become like this video,Protoss is just was ruined.
2. Immotal has been have very proper balance. this unit shows strength for Ultrarisk, Thor and more. however, it is also displayed weekness for Zergling marine and so on.
3. Photonic Overcharge of mothership core is not strength. in later time. medicvac would become OP.
And I think that why disrupter exist. just Disposable mine. nobody use this unit. what do i by using this unit?
kill the worker? impossible. kill the unit? impossible. and....? when I use this unit?
Actually, rather heart of swarm unit is better than Legacy. No change. No new unit is better.
Sweet Sweet Protoss tears. I have to Micro my units waaaah
Tempests needed a Change like SOOOO badly. They had such a specific role that it was either like "I have 5 Tempests, he has 20 Battlecruisers, I win" or it was like "If I kite those units for like an hour I will win the battle".
I don't know about the Immortals, but we'll see how it turns out.
And the Disrupter kinda feels like an interesting concept to me (you could kinda use them to win time and stuff like that).
ADD TO DRAGOONS
i like the disrupter... but why doesnt it attack air? the terran mine does with no micro needed. it would be a great new way to prevent mutas and dropplay without needing a starport right away
As a self admitted mediocre player, all of these changes do nothing but turn me off. The game is becoming more and more micro intesive, and a single unit and mostly (apart from dat Oracle) downgrades to Protoss ... which i'm sure will make Plat players and games more happy and balanced, but the VAST majority of us are not at that level. All I can see this expansion doing is one AGAIN raising the barrier to entry, and turning more and more of us less skilled players away.
I feel exactly the same... not all of us are 16 and 300 APM... what about the old school gamers who are 30 + or mid 20, and can barely get 50 apm as it is? making it more micro intensive will make it unplayable for many.
I agree that the skill cap for sc2 is unusually high.
I'm not playing it anymore myself, and I was never really good, but I still think that maybe it's better that way. When Blizzard starts thinking: less players, less viewers = less $$$, and then the game gets dumbed down like so many others, that would mean the death of this franchise.
You definitely have a point there.
However Blizzard is aiming towards a more action packed game. If you like building up your macro, perhaps SCII may not be for you. There a plenty of other RTS games that have close to 0 micro management requirements, I'd guess. SCII is a game of macro and micro management.
You guys are confused. Against an opponent of equal skill it doesn't matter. The very thing that you're talking about is why these changes are made, to make it a level playing ground. Without micro way too many protoss units simply win, By making protoss units such as the immortal less A move friendly they are leveling the playing field with the other races.
Am I missing something or did they say the tempest can now only attack ground units yet in the video they kills brood lords? I don't get it!
They cannot damage air units with their basic attack, but they can use a Disintegrate ability on both ground and air units.
Well that's misleading.. so basically they are just the same but faster!
Paul Lear
no becouse if you cast it tepests will be able to shoot graund and at the same time aier units will take dot so faster and stronger
yeah but the way they made out was as if they can only deal damage to ground.
Stupid.
Wait.........That's all? this is an Expansion for the protoss or the Terrans and Zerg's? ._. That race should be the most powerful and you people just give them LAME units and limit their power!......... it's like the developer doesn't test the Multi-player because if it was hard to play with the "protoss" it still is! and with a few improvements that are almost useless! .... also the race remains at a disadvantage compared to the others.....
What is the music title that is being played at 0:47?
Than what is the point of Immortals now. The whole point of Immortals is to take those siege tanks and powerful units, now it can't do its job probably. And get its ass kicked? So much of a protoss player I am. Time to go to Zerg.
i think that the protoss arbiter needs to come back for legacy of the void
what are your thoughts ?
your opinions about it?
among all the 3 races, this update was the least spectacular.
It fits the pattern, Zerg had the worse update for their expansion too. (the only good thing was the Muta regen)
Can you bring the protoss a really cool air unit? like switching into special shields or dunno
Lol. They remove all these updates.
BCs can still teleport tho
Tempest redesigned to only attack ground units. But then it does attack the air units of the Zerg in the video. Or is that a spell of some sort and not the "regular" attack, so they don't mean this kind of attack is possible?
It's a spell that can affect any type of unit... it would seem.
wowJhil yet another micromanagement spell...
Here are the problems i have. You HAVE TO REDUCE THE MICRO to protoss. So a bio terran only has to press t and attack move while i as a protoss to defeat a MMM i have to have T3 Colossus witch i have ot move back so it wont get sniped, force field the enemy units, activate guardian shield, cast time warp with the mother-ship core, use storms... DO I REALLY HAVE TO GO ON? So t+a vs everything else. ALSO ANOTHER BIG PROBLEM: NERF THE MARINES!!!!!!! i mean seriously. Theya re the first unit in game and they can easily kill almost every t3 unit from protoss. HELL mass marines destroy mass carriers. A MARINE IS 50 MINERALS. a carrier is 350 with 250. and i have to have a lot of tech and time to get them. They can kill tempests, immortals. THEY ARE T1. why are the marines so op ? really marines? the first unit in game can kill almost everything. also with stim pack they move so fast is imposible for a protoss to chase them. And stalkers get humiliated by mass marines. AND also nerf the damn emp. 1 emp all my archons are useless. AND FINALLY GIVE US BACK THE VORTEX!!!!!!
zerg and terran now have ways to force encounter (nydus worm, battlecruiser teleport) so why isnt there any option for protoss?
most of the changes are nerfing the protoss !! and the terran and zerg changes are ridiculous
BB protoss
and also tempest cant attack air well done carrier has arrived . tempest was the only counter for carrier in pvp !
Given this expansion is Protos specific, howcome they are only getting one new unit?
Lol? Really? ANOTHER ball-looking unit? How lazy is their design team?
StarCraft i have one question and is, if i can create a custom map like the 1st starcraft with the campain editor.
Is it possible?
This is the second time protoss got the most boring/least changes. Are you serious? This is the protoss expansion...
i have now watched every video and i have to say...we have come to the pro era! every new unit and every ability is all about micro...its going to be hard to learn but when you master it, it will be awesome!
if u ask me the protoss sucked this expansion and the mutherfucking reaver's are soo fucking OP and why did the other races het way more new stuff and protoss gets,very little this expansion is gonna ruin it for protoss players!
Woooo! Carriers stayed long enough to get a buff. Truly this is a victory for the protoss
Please, REMOVE THE COLOSSUS. It's BORING. Has NO MICRO POTENTIAL. Creates DEATHBALLS. Give us the Reaver!
Thank you for reducing Immortal's strength vs the Tank, however. It was borderline imblanced before.
Because the reaver wasn't OP at all :P A single reaver could only potentially murder an entire Zerg ground force :p
*****
Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Reaver could not be used in a giant blob and safely A-moved like the Colossus, have you ever played Brood War? It was perfect as a harassment unit or when used in small numbers in strategic places. You could not A-move them with the main army, they overkilled way too much. Plus, it was a wonderful unit when used with the Shuttle, rewarded a lot of micro.
looool terran tears
***** No it wasn't OP, glad you noticed.
(Sarcasmfailure)
whats with the blue ring around the vespane gyser at the zerg base?
how you will nerf the protoss and get op the terran and zerg!! ¬¬ with this nobody will play protoss
Guys, they obviously have not mentioned the brand new stuff for protoss because it is too early, that being said, some of the stuff here is nurfed and what exactly did they change with the carrier?