What Can a $500 CNC Do? Genmitsu 3020 Pro Max
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- The 3018 is one of the most popular desktop CNC mills. We check out its upgraded brother the Genmitsu 3020 Pro Max to see if it's worth the extra $$.
**Note: I keep calling it 3050 instead of 3020 in the review, sorry about that! We've got a new baby at home and I was sleep deprived ;)
Genmitsu 3020 - geni.us/3020-pro-max
Genmitsu 3018 - geni.us/3018-cnc
Inventables Easel - geni.us/nRed
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:54 - Frame
00:01:28 - Motors and Movement
00:02:51 - Spindle
00:03:45 - Power
00:04:12 - Work Area
00:05:36 - Limit Switches
00:06:19 - Control Board
00:07:41 - Software
00:08:34 - Cutting Tests
00:11:18 - Worth the price?
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Working for Inventables, this channel, editing podcasts, father....no wonder you haven't been putting out your podcast. You're a busy guy!
Ha sadly I had to cut something and that was it. But I do want to integrate more interviews over here on TH-cam though!
You might have better results on aluminum if you moved the motor clamp as far down the motor as possible, and only have the minimum amount of the endmill sticking out of the collet. That would provide a bit more stiffness.
Thanks, was just about to say the same. By clamping it that high you are creating a much larger lever type force feedback. And losing Z height.
Also make sure you use the ER11 (same goes for the larger ones like ER16, ER20, ER25 etc) collet correctly. I seen this so many times on YT. It's hard to tell in this video but the general idea is that you need to click the clamp into the collet nut _before_ you insert the tool. Do not put the tool in the clamp and then drop it into the nut and ER11 holder. The clamp has a groove and the nut has a ridge that mate up if there is no tool yet. They will not mate up if the tool is already present and the bit will not be properly clamped.
@@xConundrumx thanks for the hint. anyway i am thankful for the honest presentation. i want to build a much bigger machine and thought about making this the 'mother'. I am aware that one has to use things right. But. if it does not even handle aluminium safely, its a dealbreaker. thats many components involved here. but the y gantry propably would even perform better wit a u shaped alluminum. the only reason why i would even think on such small scale would be more stiffness. the bigger the machine, the higher all leverages. but this does not even work out with railguides.
maybe a sheet of skrap mettal skrewed on the gantry would make the job.
but generally this thing comes with a lot stuff. the small screwdrives are propably shit. just the nema 17 little small. grbl controller is a good feature btw.
essentiall. i think its about stiffness not about mass.
@@erwinz5926 Does this increase the maximum Z axis? How to increase the Z if not this way?
@@zoltanbereczki8067 generally you are right... without higher gantrys there are at least three other ways to raise the z achsis without being to shaky. usually: fixing it on something without a steel gantry. or a massive gantry.
1. putting the gantry directly on the rail and "dig a hole" between the both x axis.
i really think about such design. as this seems cheaper to me. i want a ballscrew x1 and x2 anyway.
2. another method is a fixed gantry.
like: fix the z axis on a stone balkony and put a x,y crosstable below. thats for smaller
high precission parts better. and easier.
and propably cheap. concrete might be your friend here to make it stiff.
3. a similar design is a fixed concrete gantry with a huge y axis with an z axis.
the x achsis is on a table then.
in my world i do not need high z axis, but prefer stiffness. on maybee 10 cm. so i really thin working with two massive allighned sidebars as a basis.with rails on the left and right and very low gantry on top.
To your comment about the power supply, I simply attached mine to the left side support of the gantry, using two big zip ties. Works perfectly fine.
will the vibration cause issues over time ? I wouldn't want any high frequency vibrations going through the electronics components. maybe that why its loose ?
Wire management? Where we're going we don't need wire management!
haha, yeh I forgot to mention they had a few wraps for wire management...but who really has the time!
Just getting into CNC and watching some videos, coming from a background of PC building, I cringed really hard at all that spaghetti. LOL
great informative video. I'm looking into getting my first entry level router. this one seems to have a good value to performance. just a thought but if you adjusted the spindle up further in the spindle clamp so that the z axis would would hit the limit switch just before you hit the bed. this would ensure you would never hit your bed plus give you more rigidity in your spindle
This is obviously a HUGE improvement over the 3018, but still with a couple of weak spots; staying within a target price point always results in compromise.
** The linear rails on the X-axis are great, so... why not the Y-axis? (Yeah, I know, PRICE!).
** The spindle is still not good enough. It is still just a cheap motor with the collet assembly held on with a grub-screw (or 2?). This is a guaranteed source of chatter.
** The gantry does not move, so extra mass and strength is good here. (Apart from freight costs.) Owners should add horizontal stiffening across the back, which would help in your "Pull on the toolbit" test.
** The cable-management is disgusting!... I am polite enough to assume this is not because you took shortcuts in the assembly! :o)
This is a really useful video, thanks. Liked & Subscribed.
Hello sir, Coming from someone who is looking to save up some $$ for a real entry level machine I really appreciate your super informative approach and wonderful video formatting. Well done 👍🏼
Glad to help
So... Your endmill is sticking out WAY too far and why you are getting chatter. Also you dont reduce your DOC, you reduce your WOC. Not sure why you would want to ruin the first 1/16" of the endmill. If your feedrate is too low compared to your RPM you are just recutting chips. Cutting aluminum really requires some type of evacuation, like a FogBuster air/coolant mixture. In the hands of someone that knows what they are doing these type of machines can do very well.
Bit late of a comment here, but i bought one, and basically thats as far as the cutter can sit in. It has shallow depth before it hits whats the collet clamps onto, on the main bit of the spindle. So he cant stick it much further in
I bought this 3020 in Nov 2021 strictly for aluminum cutting. I’ve been using a competitors machine for over a decade and it works great. I was disappointed with this machine and had several issues. It will cut aluminum but not not very well. The 1/8” bit must be all the way in the shaft. (And to prevent milling the table it’s best to lower the Z axis to the lowest point and raise the spindle in the holder so the bit can’t reach the table.) But the spindle is just not rigid enough to handle the cutting, the length of the shaft allows slight flexing. And the spindle doesn’t have enough speed or torque. I found that even slowly cutting a 1” hole in 2mm aluminum with 9 passes was nail biting. It did cut the hole but was a struggle. The finished hole was a few thousands under size because the spindle rigidity was causing it to flex inward. And just drilling a 1/8” hole w the milling bit would sputter when reaching the bottom, and wallowed the hole almost every time. So to fix both issues I hack sawed the spindle holder (another problem-only a 55mm spindle fits), and mounted a $70 rotozip (600W 30K RPM) with metal strapping. Now it mills, drills, and cuts much better. Note that after less than 10 hours the 300W spindle stopped working.
The other issue I had was that most all of the USB software I tried wouldn’t run a few commands of my existing gcode. Also, it was essential that I could stop and start the gcode from any gcode line, and couldn’t do it! So, to get around those problems I abandoned the USB controller and bought a parallel stepper driver and use LinuxCNC (or Mach2).
Overall it’s a nice little machine but wouldn’t recommend for aluminum unless your into mods.
I'm looking to buy a machine under 1k for cutting aluminum and stainless steel. What do you recommend?
@@boonvang708 I’ve only used the two hobby level machines. As for aluminum, I believe most quality CNC machines will work fine. The motor is important: a rigid, 30K RPM motor, parallel controller, with a 2 flute bit is what is recommend. As for stainless steel I believe you would need an industrial machine. That’s a very hardened material. I tried to mill steel on my hobby CNC one time, and the steel panel just laughed at me and the machine.
With a less longer Bit, you could mill Aluminium much bettter. I have the TTC450 on my own and there is much more movement on the Z axis. but if your bit is not so long, you get better results. Have a great evening!
Hi.. Thank you for the video. Does it also accomodate lasers like 3018? If it does, can we put 40watts laser in there?
@4:45 why can't you move the motor up in the motor clamp to negate the extra length of the 1/4 bits ?
Better get one of the 'new' (oh well for lack of a better term) 3020 machines that can go up to 5 axis. They look really promising for a small CNC aside from the up to 5 axis benefits.
Also you do not want the powersupply attached to the machine. Dust, (metal) chips and EMI are some reasons why.
What would your recommendation be for a budget cnc router for flattening and engraving hardwood up to 24 inches? Thanks!
Just a quick mention regarding using the Offline controller, some folks don't know this, you cannot have your USB cable plugged in at the same time the Offline controller is being used. cheers!
Good point!
Do you think a carbide tipped bit would work good for carving in brass or aluminum?
Amazing review! I want to ask you can i cut acetate plates for eyeglasses with this cnc?
Is there any way you can shorten the tool extension beyond the collet? That would help dramatically in reducing the chatter and rough finish. The shorter, the better.
The Open Source *IndyMill* is neat too.
I've had mine a few months now. It's "alright." But I'm only cutting aluminum. I bet it does awesome with woods.
what thickness ? Im want to make small components for models etc in aluminium and brass
If you use smaller diameter bits will it reduce the amount of skips and chattering while cutting aluminum?
for the z axis, cant you just mount the motor up a bit higher, especially for using those 1/4 bits? and wouldnt that also make the spindle a bit more stable as well?
Should you rotate those knobs connected to stepper motors connected to their drives? I mean you’re sending electricity back through their wires/drives, right?
How long do you think it would take to route 5 of those holes for example?
Can you do a demo of cutting copper from a standard PCB for cutting traces? Can I get a professional looking board from one of these?
Thanks
I have a 500 watt spindle. Will that fir this machine? It’s a 52mm and is there enough power for it or can I use the power supply it as with it? Thank you
I wonder if this can mill carbonfiber or other composite materials
Great little machines
Tip i would have your bit shorter to give better rigidity
Either push it up further into the collet or use a shorter bit
How is this with acrylic? Looking for a decent cnc for my acrylic stamps for myself
How can you cut 1/8" and 1/4" thick aluminum? with this machine?
11 minutes in we find out we cant use it on aluminum, nice review.
Not sure why you would think a 300w spindle would cut aluminum effectively. I know almost nothing about machining still, but definitely knew that. Probably need a 1500w spindle or in that neighborhood.
You made circular pockets (10:13), the cutter is turning clockwise then you have to cut clockwise not counterclockwise, you will see your edges are getting smoother. Compare it with a chisel, you move it forward, not backward. Cheers!
Climb cuts are acceptable in many circumstances.
@@MichaelKingsfordGray Ur right, cheers!
You are having problems with aluminium because you are not using the correct type of end mill. If the mill is chocking up use an end mill with more flutes or a higher rotation speed. Also you need mills with cutting geometry specifically for soft metals like aluminium and brass on low powered machines like this. If you had tried this with brass it would have probably given even worse results because brass is so soft it tends to grab the cutter so definitely needs correct end mills with the correct geometry. Also a shorter end mill will help and repositioning the spindle higher up in the mount will produce less stresses in the z axis and gantry assemblies.
thanks for sharing!
This model is streets ahead of the regular 3018 in every aspect.
What rpm did you use for the aluminum? You'll get better performance with a shorter bit asbitll be more rigis.
Can you add a 4th rotary axis? Can you order it from the manufacturer? If not from where?
Your wish list will drive the price up.
Will this machine also mill graphite blocks?
Ask a daft question, can you use this to make log cabins by moving the long pieces along 4.8 meters by 65mm thickness, 95mm wide
Does it cut hard Eva foam?
How feasibile would it be to swap out some of this hardware to be able to handle actually cutting metals? Or does anyone have any other recommendations for low price cnc metal machines?
I have cut both brass and aluminum on a 3018 even thouth I have larger more powerful machines. Things to consider = cutter type vs material, chip load for cutter / material, depth of cut, feeds and speeds. None of this seemed to be addresed in this video. These small machines can do well within thier limitations. I tend to use my 3018 for small detailed parts in brass and alumimun carbon fibre or wood. Do some research on cutters and materails with the proper tunig you can get good results.
for some more Z height I bolted some 2040 onto the top of the side aluminum extrushion and to be honest that looks like this is all this little cnc needs, for the price I do think it is a really good hobby machine..
adrian harrison: Or take the easy way out and move the motor higher in the clamp... less chatter, better tool life, better Z height; win-win-win! 😉
@@PiefacePete46 Looks like you could easily get 4-5 inches more just moving the motor in the clamp,
which is my biggest beef with this for making small wood projects.
@@rRobertSmith Same here. The Z-axis height is the struggle. I sometimes need more than 70 mils. And when adding a sacrificial board below, there is not much left.
So to make this machine better:
- some stiffening on the back
- place the motor a tad higher
But this video is from March 2022. Any new machines that are better in this price range? I really only need to work on wood.
@@JanHilt Foxalien Wm 3020
Great review! I am assuming it could mill HDPE or UHMW?
Hi, this 3020 promax can cut 3 mm copper?
Is that operated straight from a laptop? I have desktop 3020 and desktop died I'm looking for a laptop version 🙏
Can you go all the way thru 1cm thick plates? To make puzzles and stuff
It would be nice if they could design into this a dust collector motor with a small port that moves along side of the bit motor to collect the wood shavings/dust as the routing is performed. Is that what the "second motor" could be used for in the future?
They make a dust boot that you can hook a vacuum hose up too. The additional motor port is usually used on the other side of the X-axis so that the gantry is less likely the rack when moving. I'm guessing since this is small enough and its along a linear screw it wasn't needed.
The second motor is probably going to be for another machine that drives a gantry on two lead screws on Y. Like stepcraft with performance kit.
Can it make gun slide??
Nice machine, few corrections, the clamp bolt size on the worked are M6, not M16
You seemed to indicate using the knobs to adjust Z probe height & X/Y zeroing. Not exactly accurate as the DRO will not account for those movements and not know offset or a curate position to apply to Zero!
Good catch on M6, pretty sure I had James Bond on the mind for MI6… and for the manual controls totally agree it’s not a DRO, I only see using those if you want to manually move the axis since it’s hard to just push because of the lead screws.
what about cutting holes where its just the tool size in 3/16" aluminum. so no craving just straight downward holes.
Would like to have seen some examples of what it does.
Can using on pavers or bricks 🧱?
please sir am in dubai where can i get that machine
Is the chassis completely aluminum?
300*200 is just a bit on the low end, would love to find an entrypoint 300*300 cnc
I dont know why your running so much extended cutter, shorten the cutter up to a little more than your total "z" depth. That will at least minimise cutter flex.
When you described the spindle you said it was a VFD. This is wrong, it is not a VFD. VFD stands for Variable Frequency Drive. A VFD is used to drive a three phase AC motor. The motor used on this unit is a brushed DC motor. The speed is controlled by PWM, Pulse Width Modulation.
If it does in fact get shipped to you assembled that helps a great deal imo. Unless it was shipped assembled just to you for your review. Not sure. Can't you lay the power supply and mount it just under the rails of the work bed and prop it up for air flow underneath? Thanks for your review of the 3020 Pro!
It’s not completely assembled, more like 2 major sections and then some wires to hook up. You could mount the power supply I just wish it was something built into the design.
$500 they could include 3 ball screws to round the package up. The ACME lead screw has play and the anti back lash screw does not compensate well. You
can do isolation milling to produce some PCB's, engraving turns out fine. But milling at a standard cutting performance? Not sure about that... NEMAs got bigger
but still the drivers are step sticks and so on... NEMA23 would be nice but than you need better driver and at the end a more rigid machine so.... Better get get
a 3018 both are CNC toys not much more (I bought my 3018 with injection moulded plastic parts for 140$ that was 2019 -2020 ish)
Can this machine cut thin aluminum ? .... im looking to cut number shapes for my house number ....
Si.
Been waiting for this machine for months. Decided I should get into desktop CNC machining because I was having so much fun with my k40 laser, and pretty quickly decided this was the machine to get because of the aluminium spindle bracket and the proper linear rails. Seemed like the likely price vs performance sweet spot. It had just started shipping to the US, surely they would get the UK certification sorted before long... right? That was like, 5 months ago maybe? Still waiting. Fkn brexit I guess.
What has China to do with brexit? You wont a milling machine well guess Genimitsu 3020 Pro Max is NOT a milling machine neither is it advertised as one!
It's meant for carving and drilling. This dude has made a decent machine th-cam.com/video/76M3BY38OL4/w-d-xo.html
but get this as a reference. Y- axis supported rods should be 20mm to drive the table above the NEMA 17... So do the CAD you get more than the idea, FreeCAD is suitable.
And don't rely on models like fixed bearings from GrabCAD etc. the downloads are free but you never know if the dimensions are at point... Yea it is a pain sometimes, but CAD
models rule ;)!
What are the alternatives to Sainsmart Genmitsu 3020 Pro Max at similar prices? z axis still not rigid enough :(
Tra-ta-ta-ta-ta🗣️. Easy man.
This was a very helpful video! I would love to ask you what is the machine that you would get, similar travels on the axes with more on the z if possible, that can mill aluminum without serious compromise.
Since aluminum likes to mess with us with it being gummy let's machine the gummiest aluminum - is that 6061 - if not please just specify and let's make say a motor mount plate. So a square shape, say 3"x3" by 3/8 or 1/2" when finished with a bunch of holes punched through for through bolts, some holes to be tapped,
Lets also mill a pattern into the face of this square of aluminum that is say a 2" square shape that is 1/4" wide square track that we are ending with. The feature is also a finished depth of 1/4".
So if we are using proper feeds and speeds from the machinists handbook or other proper sources what is the most depth we can take on each pass say even on your typical industrial heavy duty vertical milling machine. That sets our target or best possible case, then can you answer in your opinion which brand machine in these low dollar tiers do you think can actually come close to this level of performance.
Last but not least this machine needs to be capable of true 3d milling into aluminum. Lets say we are going to mill a ball shape where we have a semi-circle full round shape the diameter of the circle is 3" and the height at the center of the shape is also 3" - so we are getting what would look like a bandsaw slice through part of a pool ball cut in half, Which machine can get great surface finishes and also do the work in a reasonable amount of time. I am assuming that if a machine could make this 3d feature then it could likely make most features that i would ever need it to. Please let me know if this is a poor assumption.
This whole CNC market has so many machines that could never hope to do this work which is fairly basic work for sure. And I know that this was a little bit to read but I am hoping those of you with knowledge and experience will simply be able to just snap your fingers and say - yea, get a "THIS BRAND" and get "MODEL ABC123", they are great!
Oh damn, we can't forget about cost, I would ask 2 things for cost. 1 - can you do this for under $1000? How about for under $800 and wow if we can you can do this for $500.
I have no idea what to expect so I hope that there is some feedback and all of it is going to be greatly appreciated. Cheers!
Genjitsu: T-6061 is one of the "nice" free-machining grades of aluminium with magnesium and silicon in the alloy, which, combined with a hardening process, apparently improves machinability. I don't know what grade the aluminium bar from the hardware store is, but I believe the alloy is formulated to make it easy to manufacture by extruding it, without too many extra processes. This is the stuff that we see on YT so often which machines like bubblegum, doesn't make nice chips, welds itself onto your cutter, clogs up the flutes, and breaks your new end-mill! 😱🤬😭
@@PiefacePete46 Thanks! For what it is worth i am an engineer, i have designed and built tons of machines and equipment often using aluminum plate, rounds, etc.. but i have not done that in over 20 years so a bit rusty and it is always better to ask someone that knows than to think you know stuff that you don't. I am thinking of getting a cnc router to make money with but for me time is running out... i might have to move and i will lose an amazing basement workspace... something that we all dream about - it' snot that big, don't want to exaggerate but you could do a lot here, I have 3 seperate workbenches one of the tops is a full 4x8 sheet!, a drill press stand, a table saw, a router table, a chop box on a stand, plus an area with a couch, tv, etc... I was a lucky fuk and now i am going to go down the drain soon unless i can turn things around fast... and i am going to seriously miss it.
cable management - use some zip ties - great content #specifications matter #stonehenge
Not interested in this Particular machine, but it was educational. Thanks!
Could this carve cold rolled steel for stamp and impression plate making?
Possibly, with low movement speeds, high spindle rates, and carbide drills.
But to what resolution, accuracy and repeatability?
If you require any of the above to be measured in microns, then no.
Unlikely, there is no where near the rigidity and power needed to be able to remove metal quick enough to prevent it work hardening around the end mill and bogging it down.
@@MichaelKingsfordGray Thank you
@@schrodingerscat1863 Thank you
Plastic fan usually needs balancing by removing material to even it out. Check out Balancing a cheap 300w, 500w and 800w spindle motor by Matt Wall. Worked on mine! As far as aluminum, forget about it! This is not a metal cutting machine.
The massive amount of comments here prove you wrong about aluminum.
Use a shorter bit to prevent the bending on aluminium
Does the machine work on stainless steel?
Definitely not even aluminium is a bit too hard for it , best softer material.
Takes a good sturdy machine to cut stainless.
You shouldn’t lose Z axis height with a spoil board if you simply lift the spindle higher and tighten it.
What is the hole spacing for the work holding grid?
What is your adult name?
Give me a link.i want to buy this machine
Could this machine drill stainless steel?
Get a shorter cutter for aluminum
i like the rats nest of wiring.....very DIY
No payment? The machine is your payment, 😂😂. Great video though
Hangon wait since when is brass softer than aluminium????
M16 hole ?? Looks like M6
pretty sure the Z axis is built upside down. The bit should stop about an inch above the table... to allow for workholding etc.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊
It should cut better if you cut clockwise into the work piece.
not really with this weak motor....
5:20 M8 max linear rods are 12mm(im sure lol) they allways are ...still
It's a pity it isn't $500 for us in the UK. It is £540 (That's $660) and then plus 20% tax on top. That's nearly $800. Not the bargain it seems.
But if you got it. Then modified it with larger T bars. You can make it 2ft or larger. It all depends on how you see it and if it's worth it.
Is it able to build a guitar?
10:56 yes thats why i build 10 years ago spindle and z (2x)axis sandwiches TWO Y axis.. still no one do it.
9 year ago it was upgraded 4 axis. yes spindle rotate allmost 220 degrees LOL i cut part 3 faces same time even can drill and mill angled holes. yes it mean i needed make controller there was no backthen lol
i mean controll software
sigh, could you have stuck the mill bit a little bit further out? FCOL
Do the same for aluminium, and your results will be better, and some cooling with 50% water and 50% white spirit will increase your results 2.
Really, this vibrating clump does cost $500 ? Man, how lucky am I that I got a real milling machine for less than twice that money, Sieg X2P. No CNC but does mill steel or 1/2" aluminium in 1 pass. The original Genmitsu 3018 for $180 ist a bargain, but $500 for nearly same construction is way too much.
but it's small if i want to carve a sword!
jesus got enough of that bit sitting out of the chuck? Yeah 72mm doesnt seem like much when you have 30mm of extra bit shaft sitting out of the spindle that is completely unnecessary
Are you indeed cutting in the wrong direction?
1:32 still lame acme and y z axis linear rods. next year full price 600buck upgrade get same linear blocks than x lol. ball skews and linear rails for all axis not cost 500. this machine make so much profit using still rods and acme(spring loaded backlash) still no 2 way nut and slots to adjust make it tight as you want no backlash no spring LOL or same money ballskrew
the basic laser is 3018.... if you want 2cm larger. get the 3020 pro max 😂
om people need to learn how to always try to use full depth with ur tool and less stepp over bonus from that u get to use all ur tool and u dont wear up the end of the mill
Some people need to learn how to use punctuation 😂😂😂
this is not cutting alu and making people happy. Wood with a good bit and thats it.
Can engrave gold
honestly... this thing looks cheap right away. i mean, it's $500. this is one of those things where you will actually pay MORE by trying to save money and going cheap.
Simply the total mess of a birds-nest of a wiring "loom" would make me reject the whole lot instantly.
M16 threaded holes lol.
How much of this review is "right of the bat"???